Monday, 2017-08-28

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lennyb#startmeeting third-party15:00
openstackMeeting started Mon Aug 28 15:00:10 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is lennyb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'15:00
lennybHello third party15:00
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lennyb#endmeeting15:08
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:08
openstackMeeting ended Mon Aug 28 15:08:17 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:08
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2017/third_party.2017-08-28-15.00.html15:08
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2017/third_party.2017-08-28-15.00.txt15:08
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2017/third_party.2017-08-28-15.00.log.html15:08
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emaganaUC meeting time!18:01
shamailyessir18:01
shamail#startmeeting uc18:01
emaganashamail: Would you be able to moderate it today?18:01
openstackMeeting started Mon Aug 28 18:01:42 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is shamail. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: uc)"18:01
shamailsure thing18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'uc'18:01
emaganaThanks! shamail18:01
shamail#chair emagana18:01
openstackCurrent chairs: emagana shamail18:01
shamail#topic roll call18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: uc)"18:01
shamailSo… who’s here?18:02
VWo/18:02
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shamailHi VW! Welcome to the UC (I missed the meeting where everyone else welcomed you)18:02
shamail#chair VW18:02
openstackCurrent chairs: VW emagana shamail18:02
VWthanks, shamail18:02
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shamailhi leong18:02
leonghi shamail18:02
shamailOur proposed agenda for today:18:03
shamail#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/UserCommittee#Meeting_Agenda.2FPrevious_Meeting_Logs18:03
shamail#topic Review action items from last meeting18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Review action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: uc)"18:03
shamail#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/uc/2017/uc.2017-08-21-18.00.html18:03
Rockygo/18:03
shamailMeeting notes from the last UC meeting18:03
shamailHi Rockyg18:03
Rockyghey all18:03
shamailI only see one action item: mrhillsman include the Financial team in commit18:04
emaganacorrect!18:04
* shamail trying to find patch which adds Financial team18:05
VWI think it got merged18:06
shamailMelvin had asked us to merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/436757/ first which has now been completed18:06
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mrhillsmanapologies18:06
emaganahttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/436757/3/reference/teams.yaml18:06
mrhillsmanlost power for a bit18:06
emaganaThat has been merged!18:06
shamailSweet18:06
shamailthanks mrhillsman and welcome18:07
shamail#chair mrhillsman18:07
openstackCurrent chairs: VW emagana mrhillsman shamail18:07
emaganaFinancial group as been included18:07
shamailSafe to move on?18:07
VWI think so18:07
shamail#topic Discuss current state of UC18:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss current state of UC (Meeting topic: uc)"18:07
shamailSub-topic 1: wiki updates18:07
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shamailAnyone leading this effort?18:07
mrhillsmani meant to add more to that list18:08
RockygHope you're weathering the storm ok, mrhillsman18:08
shamailmrhillsman: Feel free to do so now18:08
mrhillsmani am, thx18:08
shamailAre these things that are in-flight mrhillsman or do you want to discuss the state of various items that we need to address?18:08
mrhillsmanregarding wiki updates, wanted to be sure the info there is relevant still18:08
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mrhillsmanand are we generally satisfied with the structure, not that it is bad, but any suggestions to improve, etc18:09
shamailmrhillsman: I think most of the information is relevant *however* we should start removing content that has been merged into our repo18:09
shamailThis way the information has a single source of truth18:09
emaganashamail: +118:09
mrhillsmanok, and point folks to the governance page?18:09
rlpple+118:09
shamailThe WG/teams info and even structure doesn’t need to be there anymore18:09
shamailmrhillsman: +118:10
mrhillsmanok cool18:10
shamailDo you want to take this?18:10
rlpplemrhillsman +118:10
mrhillsmansure thing18:10
shamail#action mrhillsman will update the UC wiki and remove redunant information that is now available on our governance page18:10
mrhillsmananother thing, we should think about which groups should be WGs/Teams based on our requirements doc18:10
shamailmrhillsman: +118:11
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VWagreed.18:11
shamailI think that UC members should review existing groups based on the established criteria18:11
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mrhillsmanand reach out to them to discuss the change and work with them to make it happen18:11
mrhillsmanyep18:11
shamailWe can probably start this discussion via email and then divide contacting the WG chairs if more info is needed?18:11
mrhillsmansounds good18:11
shamailAnyone want to own starting the email thread?18:12
mrhillsmanjust a general announcement, based on requirements put forth, we will start discussing with groups/teams current status and needed changes18:12
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shamailmrhillsman: +118:13
mrhillsmanemagana?18:13
emagana+118:13
mrhillsmansince you are the chair, personally i think it makes sense for you to communicate it18:13
emaganasounds good..18:13
VWso, is the request going to be to make sure all existing groups/teams go back and fufill all the steps for new ones18:13
emaganaI will take that action item18:13
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shamailthanks18:14
mrhillsmani think that is main part of it VW and based on that maybe a team will be a wg and vice versa18:14
shamail#action emagana will send an email to UC ML letting them know that we will start discussing with groups/teams current status and needed changes18:14
VWgot it18:15
shamailI would like to add an item to the state of UC list...18:15
VWI'll try to jump on the request (as a chair) quickly when it comes out to help encourage others18:15
mrhillsmanawesome, did not want to be alone in this hehe18:15
shamailWhat is our role with SIGs? Is that defined or it isn’t a UC concern? Just want to wrap my head around our obligation on that front18:15
shamailI don’t have an answer, just the question :P18:16
mrhillsmangood question18:16
emaganawhat is the traction around SIG?18:16
mrhillsmandiscussions have been that some wgs/teams may still exist even after there are "official" sigs18:17
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mrhillsmanand i did want to add that as well in terms of discussing with working groups / teams but did not want to rock the boat too much18:17
mrhillsmanwe should discuss definitely18:17
shamail#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-sigs/18:18
mrhillsmanemagana good traction on the dev side thus far18:18
leongisn't SIG suppose to be collaboratively driven/owned by both TC and UC?18:18
shamailSIG ML to gauge activity18:18
emaganaok18:18
mrhillsmanthierry has reached out to some to move to a SIG and some have obliged18:18
shamailthread of particular interest18:18
shamail#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-sigs/2017-August/000035.html18:18
mrhillsmani wanted to suggest we identify wgs/teams that could be a sig instead18:19
VWI still need to understand it all, but I'm very much opposed to dual oversight18:19
shamailmrhillsman: +1 but is “What is a SIG” written down anywhere yet?18:19
VWexactly ^18:19
mrhillsman#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_SIGs18:20
mrhillsmanthis is the current working space18:20
rlppleshamail +1 mrhillsmand ty18:20
mrhillsmani will get a what is a SIG formal writeup done18:20
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shamail“OpenStack SIGs are teams within the community where we collaborate to bring unified discussions for all community members who share a common interest. As examples SIGs can be but are not limited to being a first stage in the development of new projects, feature requests, standards adoption, policy implementation, adjacent community work, and just general discussion(s).” is very broad and it would be hard to decide which WGs/Teams to convert18:21
shamailbased on it.18:21
mrhillsmanmyself and thierry wanted to start socializing and put it out there to try to get it moving organically18:21
rlpplewill this replace current mailing lists?18:21
shamailI am wondering if we  would be better served by documenting what a SIG isn’t since the definition of IS is broad18:21
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shamailthanks mrhillsman18:21
mrhillsmanmakes sense shamail18:22
shamailrlpple: I don’t think it will… mrhillsman said that there might be a need for continued WGs18:22
shamailrlpple: SIG has its own ML and WGs/Teams use the User Committee ML18:22
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mrhillsmanthere are no hard rules right now and that is more/less the issue per se and the reason there has not been a formal announcement/requirement18:22
rlppletrying to understand how it avoids duplication will read more.18:23
rlpplety18:23
shamailThanks mrhillsman, how does this sound: Let’s wait to see the formal writeup and, once it’s in place, use that as criteria to evaluate WG/Team charters18:23
mrhillsmanthe hope is that by sydney we can have more solid examples via those who said they would like to move to a SIG18:23
mrhillsmanand be able to better communicate what is/is not one and have a good on/off-boarding process identified18:24
shamail#info UC will discuss which WGs/Teams might be better served as SIGs after there is a formal definition of SIG in place.18:24
mrhillsmanfeedback/help is definitely welcome18:24
shamailmrhillsman: please share the writeup so that we know where to give feedback when it’s available :)18:24
mrhillsmansure thing18:24
shamailthanks18:24
shamailAnything else to add to the “current state of UC” topics?18:25
mrhillsmanoh18:25
emaganaall good so far18:25
mrhillsmanso wanted to see if we could provide also a 'current state' presentation during the joint meeting18:25
shamailmrhillsman: +1, first elected UC and all that18:25
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mrhillsmanalong with the next topic or a foreshadow hehe of the next topic during the joint meeting (maybe next by sydney and state by ptg)18:26
mrhillsmanyep18:26
shamail+1 from me, emagana and VW… thoughts?18:26
emaganamrhillsman: Yes, it is expected18:27
emaganaI think Alan always give us 5 minutes to talk about the latests from UC18:27
emaganawe should cover the election, and the WGs/Teams/SIG summary18:27
shamail#action UC will request to present a “current state of UC” overview at the Joint TC+UC+Board meeting18:27
emaganaI want to bring a topic to the board meeting, its about assigning a full time employee from the Foundation to be part of the UC18:28
shamailTell me more emagana… why is that needed?18:28
emaganaFor instance, the TC has Thierry and some times even Mike was part of that18:28
mrhillsmani wanted to see us move the uc to be more influential18:28
VWI'm good with the plan on the UC update.  I still have questions around the SIGs, though18:28
VWand yeah, emagana - elaborate18:29
VWah - good point18:29
mrhillsmanand think we not only need to provide general update, but what we need moving forward18:29
VWre: the TC having staff18:29
mrhillsmanvery similar to what you are stating emagana18:29
emaganaTheir job is to make the TC successful. For the UC we need something similar in my opinion.18:29
Rockyg++ mrhillsman18:29
mrhillsmanvery good place/thing to identify18:29
mrhillsmanand would like these types of things to be part of that presentation at ptg18:29
mrhillsmanor sydney joint meeting18:30
emaganawe all have the UC as a partial job, we have our companies role and responsabilities.18:30
mrhillsmanbut not sure if part of this topic or next more or less18:30
shamailemagana: Do we have enough work to warrant a FTE from the foundation? I understand the influence aspect but I am also trying to understand whether it could be justified18:30
shamailWe are 5 people who (part-time) are working with 11-13 WGs/Teams18:31
emaganaIf you think about wiki, repo, communication and planing for: user survey, forum, ops meet-up, etc18:31
emaganawe have a lot in our plate18:31
shamailOn the TC side, you have 60+ repos under governance18:31
emaganabeides, we need more communication for WGs/Teams and SIGs18:31
VWHow much is the TC involved in PTG planning, etc18:32
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emaganaMaybe that person could not be just 100% for UC but helping us to keep moving and provide us support whenever we need it.18:32
shamailDevil’s Advocate: We have Anne helping us with the User Survey, Forum Committee (UC+TC+OpenStack Foundation) for the Forum, and Ops Meetup used to be Foundation led and they let the community lead it… would having a FTE be working backwards to make the foundation a dependency for these activities again?18:32
VWI would argue, that UC should have a large hand in guiding the forum structure18:32
emaganaand it does VM18:33
emaganashamail and mrhillsman were totally involved in the last one18:33
VWawesome18:33
shamailemagana: +1 on having a partially dedicated foundation member18:33
VWI'm just curious if there is a parallel need around staff involvement because o fthat18:33
emaganaanyhow.. it is just an idea18:33
shamailThe dedicated full-time foundation member is what I was finding harder to justify18:33
mrhillsmani think it makes sense but am not able to articulate all the "reasons" right now18:34
shamailWe can make the case and see if it sticks :)18:34
emaganashamail: I do understand it.. maybe not full-time but partially18:34
shamailAny other sub-topics before we move on?18:35
mrhillsmani prefer we fight for full-time, justify it, i know we have at least one advocate at the board level, and probably staff too, and if we get a part-time fine hehe18:35
shamail+118:35
shamail#topic Discuss goals for this cycle (8/2017-2/2017)18:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss goals for this cycle (8/2017-2/2017) (Meeting topic: uc)"18:36
shamailI have one that I know of off-hand…18:36
shamailComplete our re-work of the AUC system to allow self-service additions/removals by WG/Team chairs18:36
shamailWe started this but I don’t know if we can make it as "done"18:36
VW+1 on that shamail18:37
Rockygmrhillsman, ++ need a full time tech organizer to ensure that tthe SIGs thaat are UC started get devs on board.18:37
RockygProj mgr/evangelist for US needs18:37
shamailDo others agree as well? I can make it as an action (so we remember the goal)18:37
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mrhillsmanagree with that shamail +118:38
shamail#action Complete our re-work of the AUC system to allow self-service additions/removals by WG/Team chairs18:38
emagana+118:38
shamailAnother goal: Review existing WG/Team for official status based on the newly published UC WG/Team Requirements18:38
rlpplehave to drop for another meeting.  will read notes.18:39
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shamailBy the end of the cycle, we should be able to say that all WG/Teams are official (or not)18:39
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mrhillsmani put that one on our agenda as well, and it came/comes from reviewing - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yD8TfqUik2dt5xo_jMVHMl7tw9oIJnEndLK8YqEToyo - in part and watching a video from the initial folks who put together the UC18:39
shamail#link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yD8TfqUik2dt5xo_jMVHMl7tw9oIJnEndLK8YqEToyo/edit#heading=h.n75incdeemsm18:39
Rockygneed a plan in there for moribund WG/Teams that might still be foundational18:40
mrhillsmanthx shamail, sorry18:40
shamailAre we good with adding “Review existing WG/Team for official status based on the newly published UC WG/Team Requirements”?18:40
mrhillsmanthought it would be good for us to start thinking about goals going forward18:40
mrhillsman+118:40
shamailGood addition to the agenda mrhillsman18:40
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shamailRockyg: +118:41
shamailJust because we don’t have a WG/team doesn’t mean it isn’t need it and the UC can/should surface these gaps18:41
shamailneeded*18:41
mrhillsman+118:41
Rockygor if one goes dormant.  How to kickstart. whether to...18:41
mrhillsmanto both yours and Rockyg's18:42
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shamail#action Review existing WG/Team for official status based on the newly published UC WG/Team Requirements (and identify coverage gaps after the official list is compiled)18:42
shamailAnyone else want to propose a goal? I can go on and on. :)18:42
mrhillsmani will work to think about more as i figured you all would have better insight to get some started18:43
mrhillsmanespecially you and emagana18:43
emagana:-018:43
mrhillsmanwill also reach out to some of our regular friendly participants for some feedback we can solidify18:43
mrhillsmanhehe, i just need a few days to let my brain coalesce all the things18:44
shamailHow about working to build closer ties with other AUC? We focus a lot on WGs/Teams but we haven’t done as much to learn about how we can help local user group organizers, knowledge contributors, etc18:44
mrhillsmanyes18:44
mrhillsman+100018:44
mrhillsmanoh yeah, on that note18:44
shamaillol18:44
Rockyg++18:45
mrhillsmanwould like to ask the foundation to provide more opps for UC visibility18:45
shamailmrhillsman: +118:45
mrhillsmanone thing i noticed at china days and other openstack days, thierry usually presents what the TC is/is not18:45
mrhillsmanand that speaks in part to emagana's point as well18:45
shamailGranted I could probably do more on my end but I often think about sitting idle as a resource when there are local events near me18:45
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shamailI think we have to advertise that UC is a thing more often18:46
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mrhillsmanyep18:46
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emaganaindeed!18:46
VWagreed18:46
emaganawe can't attend all OpenStack events all over the world18:46
emaganahaving someone from the foundation will help a lot18:46
mrhillsman;)18:46
Rockyg++18:47
shamail#action UC will work to build closer ties with other AUCs (such as local user group organizers, knowledge contributors)18:47
shamailemagana: +1 :)18:47
shamailAnything else to add for 2H 2017 goals?18:48
* mrhillsman needs to buy a new mini-notepad to write down things so he does not forget18:48
shamailyou’re just looking for an excuse to buy a new mini-notepad… notepad on the phone works just fine18:48
mrhillsmanhehe18:48
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mrhillsmanvery true sir, very true18:49
mrhillsmannothing more from me18:49
Rockygmrhillsman, you can pick some up when you visit Santa clara18:49
mrhillsman++18:49
shamailDo we want to tackle making the UC meetings multi-region in this cycle? I am curious as to whether we think there is demand… last time we tried it, it didn’t work out18:49
emagananeed to leave early folks.. Thanks for driving the meeting!18:50
shamailcya emagana18:50
mrhillsmanl8r emagana18:50
mrhillsmani think we can get that done this cycle shamail18:50
VWdo we have many APAC wg chairs, etc, shamail18:50
mrhillsmani know we have the recent financial team, public cloud has apac chairs iirc, and i believe lcoo does as well18:51
shamailI think the new financial team has APAC chairs18:51
mrhillsmani know jamemcc was pushing for it18:51
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shamailand yeah, the others mrhillsman mentioned18:51
VWah yes18:51
VWI'm certainly open to it18:51
VWwe can always try, and if it doesn't work go back to same time weekly18:51
shamail#action Establish a solution for multi-region (or alternating schedule) UC meetings to become more accessible in other timezones18:51
mrhillsman++18:52
shamailVW: +118:52
shamailThis is a good starting list… anyone have anything to add for now? We can always add later as well18:52
shamailWe should however firm up our goals by end of September so that we have enough time/focus for the remainder of the cycle18:53
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shamailgoing once18:53
shamail…twice18:53
VWagreed.  I think we should probably start the n+1 cycle goals after SYD too.  Once we see how the second round of Forum sessions goes and are mid way through the current cycle goals18:53
shamailVW: +118:53
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VWotherwise, I'm sold (18:54
shamail#action UC will continue to discuss goals with the objective of committing for this cycle by end of Sept.18:54
shamail#topic Open Discussion18:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: uc)"18:54
shamailNada from me18:54
mrhillsman^18:55
jamemccHi - Ive Got 118:55
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VWI'm good18:55
shamailHi jamemcc18:55
mrhillsmangotta run, l8r everyone, thx for joining, thx shamail for running meeting18:55
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VWwhat is it jamemcc18:55
shamailYW, see ya mrhillsman18:55
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mrhillsmanwill catch the logs18:55
jamemccShould we/could we try for another session of Cross WG Status18:55
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jamemccSeems all it would take is scheduling it18:56
shamailI think that is a good idea18:56
jamemccWe had somewhat agreed on on Late Wed night/Early Thursday morning - which is when we had the first one18:56
jamemccI propose next week18:56
shamailSame time zone or could we do one in US friendly time?18:56
shamailsince the last was APAC18:56
VWI'd be good with late Wed night18:57
jamemccWe got 3 for that meeting and I will make it 418:57
VWas both a UC member and a WG chair18:57
jamemccGood18:57
jamemcc518:57
shamailcool18:57
jamemccCan one of you take action item to reply or otherwise communicate - same as Edgar did for the first session?18:57
shamailIs next week good or would September be better (post PTG) so WGs/Teams can factor those discussions into the cross WG/team sync?18:57
Rockygnext week is Labor day18:58
jamemcc;Yeah - ok to move out a couple weeks18:58
shamailgood point Rockyg18:58
shamailVW: would you be okay with taking this communication?18:58
VWsure18:59
shamailthanks18:59
shamail#action VW will send communication regarding the next cross WG/team meeting18:59
shamailWe are at time, thank you everyone!18:59
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shamail#endmeeting18:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:59
openstackMeeting ended Mon Aug 28 18:59:45 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/uc/2017/uc.2017-08-28-18.01.html18:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/uc/2017/uc.2017-08-28-18.01.txt18:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/uc/2017/uc.2017-08-28-18.01.log.html18:59
shamailbye19:00
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