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| smcginnis | #startmeeting releaseteam | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Oct 13 15:00:17 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is smcginnis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'releaseteam' | 15:00 |
| smcginnis | ping dhellmann, dims, fungi, tonyb, lbragstad, ttx | 15:00 |
| ttx | o/ | 15:00 |
| fungi | yuppp | 15:00 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 15:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 15:00 |
| * dhellmann is wrapping up a call | 15:00 | |
| smcginnis | Happy Friday everyone. | 15:00 |
| smcginnis | Agenda: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/queens-relmgt-tracking | 15:01 |
| smcginnis | Looks like we are at line 55. | 15:01 |
| smcginnis | #topic Queens-1 Actions | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Queens-1 Actions (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 15:01 | |
| smcginnis | So six days out to q-1. | 15:02 |
| smcginnis | I get the feeling we are in good shape. Anyone know of any issues we need to be paying attention to? | 15:02 |
| ttx | nope | 15:02 |
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| dhellmann | how's the health of the ci system? releases seem to be working... | 15:03 |
| smcginnis | Hopefully we have inodes and mirrors and all the good things we need next week. ;) | 15:03 |
| fungi | yeah, we got everything back into working order late last night | 15:03 |
| ttx | yep most issue fixed now | 15:03 |
| ttx | just not on zuulv3 | 15:03 |
| fungi | if someone can get me a list of the release jobs which failed i can get them rerun right after this meeting | 15:03 |
| ttx | inodes are good | 15:04 |
| smcginnis | Ian sent out a post last night - looked like all known issues at least are resolved. | 15:04 |
| dhellmann | fungi : excellent news | 15:04 |
| fungi | unless you'd rather those not propagate out on a friday | 15:04 |
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| smcginnis | fungi: I'll do that. I think there were just the two the EmilienM mentioned, but I'll look through to see if there were any others that snuck in and let you know them all. | 15:04 |
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| dhellmann | it's not that much work to re-run by revert/revert either | 15:04 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 15:04 |
| smcginnis | Or revert/revert/revert/revert as the case may be. | 15:04 |
| EmilienM | and one from magnum I think | 15:05 |
| * EmilienM catchs the train | 15:05 | |
| smcginnis | EmilienM: Thanks! | 15:05 |
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| EmilienM | please let me know if I can help | 15:05 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : heh | 15:05 |
| smcginnis | EmilienM: I hopefully got it covered, but will do. Thanks for offering! | 15:05 |
| smcginnis | #action smcginnis to get list of failed releases from the past few days to fungi | 15:06 |
| smcginnis | #topic Open discussion | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 15:06 | |
| fungi | ttx: i dunno that i'd call the inode situation "good, but it's at 93% of our capacity when i looked a few minutes ago (so far better than 100%) | 15:06 |
| EmilienM | smcginnis: https://review.openstack.org/511463 and https://review.openstack.org/511295 are the only ones AFIK | 15:06 |
| smcginnis | 93% - that's still a little scary. | 15:06 |
| fungi | we still have bulk deletes of stuff underway | 15:07 |
| smcginnis | EmilienM: Awesome, thanks a lot. | 15:07 |
| fungi | and are temporarily scaling log retention back from a month to two weeks | 15:07 |
| fungi | in order to cope | 15:07 |
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| smcginnis | fungi: And that's the bit that will take several days to complete? | 15:07 |
| fungi | yeah, likely, but everything should be working fine in the interim | 15:07 |
| smcginnis | At least it's trending better and not worse. ;) | 15:08 |
| fungi | (i don't know what ianw said on the ml yet, still catching up from overnight) | 15:08 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 15:08 |
| smcginnis | OK, update on Kolla ACLs. Did you want to discuss this ttx? | 15:08 |
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| ttx | yes | 15:08 |
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| smcginnis | I think I was going to look into it at one point, but IIRC you picked it up? | 15:08 |
| ttx | yeah, so the issue is that Kolla and TripleO are not using standard groups re: stable branch reviews | 15:09 |
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| ttx | which make it hard to apply aclmanager-style rules to them | 15:09 |
| dhellmann | are those both cycle-trailing projects? | 15:09 |
| ttx | I was about to change them to conform, but TripleO dropped the stable-maint tag | 15:09 |
| ttx | dhellmann: yes | 15:09 |
| dhellmann | maybe we should document that acl setup as part of having the stable-maint tag | 15:10 |
| ttx | so the open question is, should Kolla also drop that tag (should we make that tag non-applicable to deployment things)? | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | but I wonder if kolla wants to just drop the tag | 15:10 |
| ttx | should we try to build a policy that would work for them | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | I think tonyb and EmilienM had a good conversation about creating a separate policy before tripleo dropped the tag | 15:11 |
| ttx | basically I don't know what the next step should be here | 15:11 |
| dhellmann | and I think based on that it's relatively clear the tag is a bad fit for deployment projects, as it is written today | 15:11 |
| EmilienM | afik kolla wants the tag | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | so I'd say update the tag to document the acl thing (purely as documentation of an existing expectation) and suggest that kolla not keep the tag | 15:12 |
| EmilienM | they recently apply for it | 15:12 |
| smcginnis | I do think deployment projects really do need a different tag. The current one was definitely targeted at service projects. | 15:12 |
| EmilienM | applied* | 15:12 |
| smcginnis | dhellmann: ++ | 15:12 |
| smcginnis | EmilienM: Kolla recently applied for it? | 15:12 |
| EmilienM | ++ for a different tag | 15:12 |
| EmilienM | smcginnis: I'm might be wrong but I recall kolla applying for a tag | 15:12 |
| EmilienM | let me find it | 15:13 |
| EmilienM | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/346455/ | 15:13 |
| EmilienM | 8 weeks ago | 15:13 |
| fungi | i believe kolla expressed a vested interest in adding any tags which would increase their maturity metric in visible places | 15:13 |
| EmilienM | they have stable:follows-policy | 15:13 |
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| dhellmann | maybe update the tag definition to declare it not a good fit for deployment projects, too | 15:13 |
| fungi | so as to help drive adoption | 15:13 |
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| smcginnis | So I still think coming up with a new tag and moving them to that would be the right approach. | 15:13 |
| smcginnis | Them and TripleO. | 15:14 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: that and say this tag doesn't tell you a project is really mature, imho | 15:14 |
| fungi | they will likely ask for an equivalent tag for deployment-type projects so they can be on equal footing with service projects, from a marketing perspective | 15:14 |
| EmilienM | I agree some tags are clearly a sign a project is mature | 15:14 |
| dhellmann | hmm, I'm not sure I agree with that, EmilienM. That was sort of the point of having the tag in the first place. | 15:14 |
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| smcginnis | dhellmann: So I think both of your suggestions are good. | 15:14 |
| dhellmann | fungi : I hope they do help drive the definition of that tag (or even "exceptions" or modifications to the existing tag) | 15:14 |
| smcginnis | I think the plan could be: | 15:15 |
| EmilienM | but stable:follows-policy in the case of installers doesn't tell an installer isn't mature | 15:15 |
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| fungi | dhellmann: yes, it seems like it would be a good outcome | 15:15 |
| smcginnis | 1) Update verbiage in stable-follows-policy to point out ACL requirements | 15:15 |
| smcginnis | 2) Update the tag to be explicit it is targeted at service projects. | 15:15 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: I meant to say, this tag in particular. I agree most of other tags are good and define projects as mature | 15:16 |
| smcginnis | 3) Create new tag for deployment projects that is roughly the equivalent with some tweaks. | 15:16 |
| EmilienM | smcginnis: +1 on this plan | 15:16 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : right, that's what I understood you to be saying. I think this tag should indicate a level of maturity in the *process* used to create and manage the project | 15:16 |
| fungi | yep, either that or alternate #3 is use a different maturity scaling metric for deployment projects | 15:16 |
| EmilienM | I'll work on 3) and if you don't mind please give some feedback in my proposal | 15:16 |
| fungi | thanks EmilienM! | 15:17 |
| ttx | smcginnis: sounds good to me | 15:17 |
| smcginnis | fungi: There were also some release process constraints that don't quite fit well with that, but yeah. | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : maybe work with some of the other deployment project teams, to get some consensus on wording. more than kolla are likely to be interested. | 15:17 |
| EmilienM | #action EmilienM to create a new tag for deployment projects that is roughly the equivalent of stable:follows-policy, with some tweaks | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : ++ | 15:17 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: for sure I will collaborate :D | 15:17 |
| smcginnis | EmilienM: Cool, I was just going to ask if you minded taking an action on that. :) | 15:18 |
| * dhellmann knows he doesn't really need to remind EmilienM to collaborate | 15:18 | |
| EmilienM | :) thx | 15:18 |
| smcginnis | Kind of implicit, but tonyb should be involved in the definition of that tag too. | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | good point | 15:18 |
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| smcginnis | #action smcginnis to propose updates on wording of the stable tag | 15:19 |
| smcginnis | I'll work on that part. | 15:19 |
| smcginnis | Since you brought up the topic, this all sound good to you ttx? | 15:20 |
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| smcginnis | Or anything to add/change? | 15:20 |
| ttx | nope, all good | 15:20 |
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| smcginnis | OK, next... | 15:21 |
| smcginnis | Relase highlights and next steps | 15:21 |
| smcginnis | Strike the "and" theere | 15:21 |
| smcginnis | *there | 15:21 |
| smcginnis | *release | 15:21 |
| * lbragstad hands smcginnis more coffee | 15:21 | |
| * smcginnis shakes his head | 15:21 | |
| smcginnis | lbragstad: Thanks, obviously needed. Ran out of espresso beans this morning. | 15:21 |
| lbragstad | ooof - that's rough | 15:22 |
| ttx | yes so... | 15:22 |
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| ttx | About Anne's email this week about next steps there | 15:22 |
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| * ttx loads up plan | 15:23 | |
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| ttx | line 91 on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/queens-relmgt-plan | 15:24 |
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| smcginnis | So the idea was a new section in the deliverables/$CYCLE/$PROJECT.yaml file that would get filled in, then we would automate pulling that out and publishing somewhere IIRC. | 15:26 |
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| dhellmann | yes | 15:26 |
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| dhellmann | I can advise on implementation, but this is an excellent opportunity for someone else to get their hands dirty on that code | 15:27 |
| ttx | anyone wanting to take it ? Otherwise I'll add it to my plate, hoping I'll get to it | 15:27 |
| smcginnis | Hate to change the plan at this stage, but would it actually be possible to add something to reno where PTLs could put some sort of tag on a release note item that would tell it "This is important, publish this in a release highlights page"? | 15:27 |
| ttx | Won't probably have time for both the storyboard stuff and this | 15:27 |
| smcginnis | Just thinking of reducing duplication of effort on the PTLs part. | 15:27 |
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| fungi | are release notes the same level of detail you'd want for highlights? | 15:28 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : reno already has a "prelude" feature for that. We decided in denver that the audience for these notes was different enough that it made sense to write something separately. | 15:28 |
| smcginnis | dhellmann: Right, so that's why I'm thinking of a separate tag. | 15:28 |
| ttx | I think the idea is that you can't tell if it's a release highlight before you are at release time | 15:28 |
| dhellmann | release notes are for users/deployers; these things are for marketing and analysts | 15:28 |
| ttx | right | 15:28 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : ah, I see | 15:28 |
| fungi | yeah, i see ~3 levels of detail/kinds of audience... highlights, release notes, commit logs | 15:28 |
| smcginnis | OK, just a brainstorm idea. Let's stick with what we already discussed. | 15:29 |
| fungi | and commit logs are more targeted at the developers | 15:29 |
| fungi | so there you have your three base audiences i guess | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | I guess the other benefit of doing it here is as fungi pointed out you can do it at the end of the cycle. it also puts all of the items in one place for the consumer. | 15:29 |
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| smcginnis | And there's a better mental context for what you would want to say here vs just highlighting significant release notes. | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 15:30 |
| fungi | right, in much the same way that you may have several commits implementing something covered by a given release note, you may have several release note items which feed into a single highlight | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | we should write down all of this reasoning for when we roll out the new thing and have to explain it to ptls :-) | 15:30 |
| fungi | so summary of a summary | 15:30 |
| smcginnis | :) | 15:30 |
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| smcginnis | ttx: I can take this if you want. | 15:31 |
| smcginnis | I'll follow on to Anne's ML post with another one that explains the new process and the reasoning behind it. | 15:31 |
| smcginnis | Once we have that new process in place. | 15:32 |
| ttx | smcginnis: cool, thanks | 15:32 |
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| smcginnis | Do we have a place for these to be published already? A sub-page off of releases.o.o? | 15:33 |
| ttx | added your name on it | 15:33 |
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| smcginnis | ttx: Thanks | 15:33 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : not yet, that will be part of the implementation work | 15:33 |
| ttx | made it a HIGH TODO since we want to complete that before the end of the cycle | 15:33 |
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| dhellmann | I envision a new sphinx directive, but we might also be able to use a simple template if we only want one page at a time | 15:33 |
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| smcginnis | Probably be good to have in place by q-2 just to work out issues and help with communication, if at all possible. | 15:34 |
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| dhellmann | that deadline makes sense | 15:34 |
| smcginnis | Alright, anything else to discuss? | 15:34 |
| fungi | a one-pager would likely be best, with all the projects who provided highlights for that release combined somehow | 15:34 |
| smcginnis | For a short initial agenda, we've certainly found plenty to talk about. | 15:35 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yeah, I guess the question is 1 page per cycle or 1 page total | 15:35 |
| smcginnis | fungi: ++ | 15:35 |
| fungi | market analysts aren't going to want to need to browse dozens of per-project pages some of which may even be blank | 15:35 |
| smcginnis | I think 1 page per cycle would be most consumable. | 15:35 |
| ttx | 1 page per cycle I'd say | 15:35 |
| fungi | right | 15:35 |
| dhellmann | ok. so that's either a new directive or a creative use of sphinxcontrib-datatemplates | 15:35 |
| fungi | good point, some have multiple "releases" per cycle | 15:36 |
| fungi | but i meant per release cycle of course | 15:36 |
| ttx | EmilienM: are you interested in drafting a variant of the stable policy that would match TripleO needs ? | 15:36 |
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| smcginnis | Should we just do the release highlights for the cycle-with-milestone projects to start? | 15:36 |
| ttx | I can work on tweaking the original one but that should probably happen at the same time | 15:36 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I think he agreed to take that action? | 15:36 |
| ttx | oh, missed it | 15:36 |
| ttx | ok | 15:37 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : I think we want "service" projects regardless of release model | 15:37 |
| fungi | it may also be useful to decide that highlights aren't relevant to stable point releases too | 15:37 |
| EmilienM | ttx: yes, I think that's what I proposed to do | 15:37 |
| smcginnis | fungi: Good point. | 15:37 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yeah, the data model we agreed on was 1 set of highlights per deliverable file | 15:37 |
| fungi | wfm | 15:37 |
| dhellmann | so effectively 1 set for a deliverable for a cycle | 15:37 |
| smcginnis | And what about the independent projects? | 15:37 |
| dhellmann | which is not the current data model, but changing that was part of the work items for this | 15:37 |
| fungi | yeah, that seems like a great fit | 15:38 |
| dhellmann | independent projects are not technically considered to be "part of" the release | 15:38 |
| ttx | EmilienM: ok, let me know when you have something, so that I coordinate the change to the other one. I'll push it as Workflow-1 in the meantime | 15:38 |
| dhellmann | they are independent of the cycle, and the release | 15:38 |
| smcginnis | OK, just making sure we didn't want to try to do something there as well. | 15:38 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : although limiting it to service projects would eliminate the deployment tools, so maybe that's not the right criteria either | 15:38 |
| dhellmann | and if we add a major new thing to a library, I think we'd want to mention that because it applies to all projects | 15:39 |
| smcginnis | Just anything under deliverable/* | 15:39 |
| dhellmann | so maybe we just want all projects that have the cycle-based models to be allowed to have these and require it for service projects? | 15:39 |
| smcginnis | dhellmann: But library changes in some cases are more relevant in release notes for library consumers I think. | 15:39 |
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| smcginnis | Guess it depends on the lib though. | 15:39 |
| dhellmann | if I add the ability to have secret stores in oslo.config, that may be something analysts would want to know about | 15:40 |
| dhellmann | s/I/someone else/ | 15:40 |
| dhellmann | it's a difference of where we want to *require* content and where we want to *allow* it | 15:40 |
| smcginnis | Or would they just care about the consuming projects being able to add functionality because of that. | 15:40 |
| dhellmann | let's be flexible for the latter, and minimalist for the former | 15:40 |
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| dhellmann | that specific feature is transparent to the application -- that's the point of most of those libraries | 15:41 |
| dhellmann | when castellan adds support for vault, all applications can use it immediately *without the application developer knowing* | 15:41 |
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| smcginnis | OK, well we can get started with something and then tweak it from there once we have something in place I suppose. | 15:42 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 15:42 |
| smcginnis | Anything else we should discuss in the meeting? | 15:42 |
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| smcginnis | I guess that's a no. | 15:43 |
| * dhellmann has nothing | 15:43 | |
| fungi | infra has decided to roll back to zuul v3 late on sunday | 15:43 |
| smcginnis | OK, thanks everyone. | 15:43 |
| fungi | that's really the only infra update i have though | 15:44 |
| smcginnis | fungi: OK, good. | 15:44 |
| smcginnis | And Monday morning everything will be working perfectly, right? :) | 15:44 |
| fungi | that's the expectation | 15:44 |
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| smcginnis | OK, thanks all. | 15:44 |
| smcginnis | #endmeeting | 15:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Oct 13 15:45:06 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2017/releaseteam.2017-10-13-15.00.html | 15:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2017/releaseteam.2017-10-13-15.00.txt | 15:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2017/releaseteam.2017-10-13-15.00.log.html | 15:45 |
| ttx | smcginnis: thanks! | 15:45 |
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| EmilienM | ttx: I will | 15:48 |
| EmilienM | ttx: I'll probably draft something over the week-end | 15:48 |
| ttx | ok will prepare something next week about the original tag then | 15:48 |
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