Thursday, 2018-09-06

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melwitt#startmeeting nova14:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep  6 14:00:14 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is melwitt. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'14:00
melwitthello everybody14:00
melwittlet's get started14:00
melwitt#topic Release News14:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Release News (Meeting topic: nova)"14:01
melwitt#link Stein release schedule:
melwittfinal rocky release was last thursday. we're still working on bugs and backporting them to stable/rocky14:01
melwittso now, we kick off the stein cycle with the PTG next week14:02
melwittthat's all I have for release news. anyone have anything else?14:02
melwitt#topic Bugs (stuck/critical)14:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (stuck/critical) (Meeting topic: nova)"14:03
melwittwe have one bug in the critical link14:03
openstackLaunchpad bug 1790701 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "online_data_migrations fail in rocky+" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Matt Riedemann (mriedem)14:03
* bauzas waves late14:03
mriedemneed approved14:03
dansmithI have that open now14:04
mriedemwith that and another fix already merged,14:04
mriedemwe have nova-status passing in devstack
mriedemfor fresh install14:04
bauzasI'm on the patch14:04
mriedemsomething i should have added long ago14:04
mriedemi'll start backports after the meeting14:04
melwittok, coolness14:04
melwitt#link 51 new untriaged bugs (up 1 since the last meeting):
melwitt#link 11 untagged untriaged bugs (up 1 since the last meeting):*&field.status%3Alist=NEW14:05
melwittnot too big of an increase from last week in bugs, thanks to all who have been helping with triage14:05
melwitt#link bug triage how-to:
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melwitt#help need help with bug triage14:05
melwittGate status14:06
melwitt#link check queue gate status
melwittgate has seemed OK14:06
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melwitt3rd party CI14:06
melwitt#link 3rd party CI status
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melwittanything else for bugs or gate status or 3rd party CI?14:06
mriedem3rd party ci needs
mriedemthat was the 0.0 allocation ratio thing killing the non-libvirt ci jobs14:07
melwittright, ok. will review14:07
melwitt#topic Reminders14:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Reminders (Meeting topic: nova)"14:07
melwitt#link Stein Subteam Patches n Bugs:
melwitt#link Stein PTG planning:
melwittI've updated the etherpad with a schedule ^14:08
melwittthe cyborg team is going to talk about placement integration stuff on monday from 2pm - 3pm at the cyborg room14:08
melwittthey'd like for interested folks from the nova team to join14:08
cdentthere's a blazar one on tuesday at 10am (I think)14:09
melwittok, will add a note about that on the schedule14:09
mriedemand mfing edge at 4pm on tuesday14:09
melwittedge is having an all day thing on tuesday, I14:09
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melwittwill add a note about 4pm being nova time14:10
mriedembut their nova-specific stuff starts around 414:10
mriedemalready done14:10
melwittwe have the rocky retro first thing on wednesday14:10
melwitt#link Rocky retrospective for the PTG:
melwittthere's almost nothing on the etherpad, so I expect it to be short14:11
melwittbut we'll at least talk about runways and any changes we'd like to make to the spec freeze date this time14:11
melwittand kick off runways for stein accordingly14:11
efriedoo, I just thought of this, when we do the retrospective *next* time, we get to call it the stein whine14:11
* efried crawls back into hole14:11
melwittthat's something to look forward to14:12
melwittok, that's all I have for reminders. anyone else have anything to add for reminders?14:12
melwitt#topic Stable branch status14:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Stable branch status (Meeting topic: nova)"14:12
melwitt#link stable/rocky:,n,z14:12
* melwitt needs to review 14:13
melwitt#link stable/queens:,n,z14:13
melwitt#link stable/pike:,n,z14:13
melwitt#link stable/ocata:,n,z14:13
melwitt#help please help with stable reviews14:13
melwittthere are a lot of reviews14:14
melwittanything else for stable branch status?14:14
melwitt#topic Subteam Highlights14:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Subteam Highlights (Meeting topic: nova)"14:14
melwittwe didn't have a cells v2 meeting yesterday. anything you'd like to mention here dansmith?14:14
dansmithnot really,14:14
dansmithseveral of us have been out here and there, like surya this week14:15
dansmithI think we got the flag for reverting to the old skip behavior all nailed down (not sure if it merged yet or not)14:15
dansmithand we've been iterating on the proper down-cell stuff, which has been a little slow with the people outages14:15
mriedemi haven't looked at that yet14:15
dansmithbut otherwise going pretty well14:15
dansmithmriedem: yeah, would be good to get your ack on that14:16
mriedemgiven i asked for it...14:16
melwittcool, thank you14:16
melwittscheduler, efried?14:16
efriedNo sched meeting this week due to labor day (though in retrospect it would have been polite of me to send an email to that effect).14:16
efriedBut I would like to have a brief update on placement extraction.14:16
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efriedAs of yesterday we've merged the forty-some patches to get the extracted repository to the point of gating/voting unit/func/pep, which is a great milestone.14:16
cdentit was in honors of efried's 42 birthday14:17
efriedAnd with a couple of pending patches as deps, I think cdent has gotten devstack working, as proven by placecat etc. cdent, care to unmuddle that?14:17
cdentI got tempest working against
cdentbut not grenade of course14:18
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cdentand placecat is my docker driven test suite for placement, the container now uses openstack/placement instead of openstack/nova as its source14:18
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melwittcool, glad things are going well14:19
melwittI think gibi isn't around, no notes left for notifications team14:20
melwittand I think gmann isn't around, no notes left for API team14:20
melwittanything else for subteams before we move on?14:21
melwitt#topic Stuck Reviews14:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Stuck Reviews (Meeting topic: nova)"14:21
melwittno items in the agenda. does anyone in the room have anything for stuck reviews?14:21
melwitt#topic Open discussion14:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)"14:22
mriedemif it's not on the agenda,14:22
mriedemcern is going to have a specless bp request for
mriedemto support extending in-use rbd volumes14:23
mriedemthe os-brick code isn't merged yet14:23
melwittok, yeah not in the agenda14:23
mriedemand i've said on the nova change that i want to see the ceph job passing with the volume extend tempest test on that nova change first14:23
melwittsounds like a good plan to me14:24
efriedSomething I'd like to put in folks' noggins:14:24
efriedDo we ultimately see *all* device passthrough eventually going through cyborg, or just accelerators?14:24
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efriedLooking at the long-term plan for torching the existing pci passthrough code14:24
bauzasefried: no14:25
bauzasefried: please14:25
melwittmriedem: looks like a parity thing for that blueprint, so I'm +1 on approving14:25
bauzasefried: cyborg is a management API for accelerators, but please don't purge the capabilities that nova has to manage a set of devices out of it14:26
melwittanyone else have opinions about the approval of specless blueprint ?14:26
mriedemmelwitt: it might be premature until the actual brick change is approved and ceph testing is green14:26
mriedemi was just bringing it up as an fyi14:26
bauzasI was about to say the same14:26
efriedsorry for the cross-talk, lemme know when you're done14:26
bauzasit requires a new osbrick version14:27
bauzasos-brick even14:27
melwittmriedem: ok. so we'll wait to approve until after that. sorry, I thought you were asking to approve now14:27
bauzasbut if that's straightforward in nova, I'm not opposed to the specless-y14:27
melwittk. cool. I think we're done with that then14:28
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melwittefried: go ahead, sorry about that14:28
dansmithmy opinion is that cyborg isn't far enough along to have enough confidence in it to replace things like basic device attach,14:29
efriedSo I know cyborg is going to get involved in doing the discovery and reporting (to placement) of accelerator inventory.14:29
dansmithespecially with SRIOV type things that need some network attention14:29
dansmithI would kindof expect that the PCI attach functionality in nova is how we end up attaching accelerators under the covers anyway, perhaps without the same level of whitelisting nonsense14:30
bauzasyeah I think it's premature14:30
efriedwell, I agree with that for sure. We're not going to be able to replace the whole pci subsystem all at once.14:30
dansmithbut until cyborg becomes a much more mature thing, I'm not really in favor of replacing anything with it,14:30
efriedbut we can take one of two paths wrt cyborg14:30
dansmithand only trying to enable what new things it might bring14:30
bauzasI'm still a bit concerned14:30
efriedwe can either make the effort to embrace it and thus help it mature, pulling in pieces as they become available/usable14:31
bauzasif we say this way, then we should have said to leave vGPUs out of the nova radar14:31
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efriedor we can go our own way and then do a second, bigger, more painful integration later when we consider cyborg "mature".14:31
bauzasthe most crucial thing is not what we have, but how we support it14:31
dansmithefried: you mean "if/when"14:31
mriedemwe've said no to fpga directly in nova for years,14:31
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dansmithbecause the if part is the important bit to me14:32
mriedemcyborg is the path to fpga in nova14:32
mriedemso let's see that happen first14:32
dansmithmriedem: exactly14:32
mriedembefore spending a bunch of time retrofitting what we already have14:32
bauzasoh yeah14:32
efriedchicken/egg, self-fulfilling prophecy, and all that.14:32
efriedI.e. if we take path A, cyborg is more likely to be a long-term success.14:32
cdentIf I'm understanding efried correctly, the concern here is about architecture over the long term14:32
bauzasand we could potentially improve the PCI functionality without really pulling it out of nova14:33
cdentif there's a chance that cyborg will become more generic it needs to start out that way sooner14:33
efriedyes, that ^14:33
bauzasI'm not opposed to have the same feature be done in two different ways14:33
efriedLook, it actually makes my life easier if we say we're going to ignore cyborg for a couple of cycles and start rolling our own placement-based device passthrough, per kosamara's spec as written.14:33
bauzasafter all, it's now 4 cycles that we are wondering how cyborg will interact with nova14:34
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bauzasyeah, and I think it's not a big deal for placement, right?14:34
efriedwell, not really, only since Dublin has it been more than a haze14:34
bauzasI heard of cyborg since barcelona14:35
bauzasit's just that we had a chat with them since Dublin, yeah14:35
efriedbut I'm trying to consider what's best long term, and whether we have a duty^Wresponsibility^Wopportunity to help raise the project and help it mature.14:35
bauzasbut we can also try to avoid overguessing what the future could be, and leave people engage with us14:36
bauzasfor example, blazar is way older than placement14:36
bauzasbut at the end, they will use it14:36
bauzasI don't see a problem having both efforts14:36
melwittI guess I'm not sure how cyborg being generic enough is related to which thing we integrate first14:37
efriedso I believe it was dansmith who asked the question on kosamara's spec, lemme find that...14:37
melwittthe fpga thing will be the first step and if that works well, we could consider moving other passthrough to it right?14:37
cdenta question standing here is "do we have a chance to collaborate rather than duplicate effort"14:37
dansmithmelwitt: cyborg is not generic enough today, as defined/planned I think14:38
efrieddansmith: PS5: "I would have expected a lot of the stuff described here to be in scope for cyborg. Not that we should exclude all that from nova necessarily, but I think that it's probably worth calling out how this intersects (or not) cyborg's intended scope."14:38
dansmithmelwitt: they're asking if we should encourage them to *be* generic enough14:38
melwittdansmith: oh, ok14:38
melwittwas just looking at their wiki again, "various types of accelerators such as GPU, FPGA, ASIC, NP, SoCs, NVMe/NOF SSDs, ODP, DPDK/SPDK and so on" so I thought that sounded generic14:38
efriedwell, when I asked Sundar this question, his reaction was yes.14:38
mriedemthis is premature - given how slow things move, they should opt to be generic if possible,14:39
mriedembut not at the expense of actually getting shit done14:39
mriedemi don't think we have any duty to raise that project14:39
mriedemwe can collaborate, sure14:39
mriedembut it's not my top priority by any means14:39
efriedMy point being that that affects how we proceed in nova with device passthrough and making existing pci code diaf14:39
dansmithneither mine,14:39
mriedemand expect it's not the priority for others14:39
efriedit is mine, actually.14:39
dansmithbut I think that efried is asking because he wants to know whether to push on the nova-centric generic device approach,14:39
dansmithor go push in cyborg14:40
efriedthanks dansmith, nail on head14:40
mriedemi'm likely not going to be involved in that either way, at least not in stein, so doesn't matter to me personally14:40
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mriedemobviously decomp is best if possible,14:40
mriedembut that might take a couple of years14:40
dansmithdecomp like "let that corpse rot" ?14:41
efriedOkay, so dansmith if the response in that review is, "this may or may not be in scope for cyborg long-term, but we're going to do it this way until that project matures more"...14:42
mriedempunt to ptg?14:42
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efriedthat wfy?14:42
dansmithmriedem: yeah, I've typed out several responses and deleted them all because I can't articulate my feelings on the matter14:43
dansmithso maybe ptg14:43
efriedYeah, definitely going to discuss some at ptg, but wanted to get a couple of gears turning in y'all's heads.14:43
dansmithI guess the bottom line is:14:43
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dansmithI don't have a lot of faith in cyborg becoming a useful generic device service as it is today14:43
dansmithso if I cared about generic devices a lot, I probably wouldn't put my eggs in that basket14:43
dansmithbut, since I don't care so much, putting them over there keeps them out of the way in nova14:44
dansmithso..? :)14:44
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efriedI'm going to be pushing hard for at least a small piece (full GPUs) of generic placement-based device passthrough in Stein.14:45
efriedAnd obviously will be asking people like those present here to review things in that space.14:45
efriedso wanted to get pre-buy-in for which approach to take short-term (stein)14:45
efriedwhich I think I have now14:45
dansmithI think fleshing out GPUs in nova, which we already have makes sense14:45
efriedwell, distinguishing VGPU from GPU in this case dansmith14:45
efriedThose are going to be very different things.14:46
dansmithyou want a GPU-specific PCI passthrough replacement?14:46
efriedThe full-GPU passthrough thing is going to actually subsume some of the functionality you can currently do with [pci]*14:46
efriedyes exactly14:46
efriedGPU first14:46
* dansmith looks for his spoon14:46
efriedor possibly any "full card"14:46
efriedI see being able to use either mechanism (legacy [pci]passthrough_whitelist/alias or The New Thing) for multiple releases14:47
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efrieduntil we have full parity and can start ripping out the legacy thing14:48
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efriedif we try to do it all at once, fail14:48
mriedemwe should make a list of the ginormous tasks we think we're going to take on in stein - at the ptg of course14:48
mriedemb/c i remember a lot of wailing about not having shared storage support yet14:48
mriedemcross-cell cold migrate is going to be my albatross14:48
dansmithor a plan for numa14:48
mriedemor just being able to upgrade to stein with placement working :)14:49
melwittyeah, I want to get shared storage squared away. being that it looks like it's close too14:49
mriedemor instance ownership transfers14:49
mriedemlots of big proposals on the plate right now14:49
mriedemwe're gonna need to weigh this stuff14:49
cdentshould be plenty of scales in colorado14:50
mriedemb/c of fat coloradoans?14:50
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mriedemoh right14:50
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melwittok, are we done? :)14:50
dansmithcdent: post-legalization, it's not that big a deal to make sure the dime bag is no larger than it should be :)14:50
efriedI think I'm done14:51
* cdent avoids going off into too much weed jargon14:51
melwittok, let's call it. thanks everyone14:52
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep  6 14:52:17 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:52
openstackMinutes (text):
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lhindshey o/15:02
lhindsroll call # eeiden fungi gagehugo lhinds nickthetait browne redrobot15:02
lhindshi nickthetait15:02
lhindshey gagehugo15:03
lhinds#startmeeting security15:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep  6 15:03:16 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is lhinds. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: security)"15:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'security'15:03
lhinds#chair gagehugo15:03
openstackCurrent chairs: gagehugo lhinds15:03
lhinds#topic agenda:
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lhindsso I guess the main topic is the PTG?15:03
nickthetaitmakes sense15:03
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lhindsare you going nickthetait ?15:04
* fungi is around, will be at the ptg15:04
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lhindshey fungi15:04
nickthetaitseems like I won't be able to :'(15:04
lhindsfair nuff, me too this year15:04
lhindsis there any topics or logistics you wanted to go over gagehugo ?15:05
gagehugolhinds I haven't heard back about that person who wanted to present at the PTG15:06
lhindsah yeah, I guess if they do, it will be useful having barbican folks there too, to help pull it apart15:06
gagehugoI talked to ade_lee, seems like the schedule is pretty relaxed15:06
gagehugoI don't have any non-ptg updates15:07
lhindsSo I am onto the threat reviews.15:07
lhindsI was looking at PyCADF, seems there are some review findings already.15:08
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lhindsrabbitMQ (iirc)15:08
gagehugoidk if they can be directly assigned to pycadf though15:09
lhindsso is this a case of reviewing the review so to say, with next steps being approval and VMT ack15:09
* gagehugo needs to relook at the review15:09
gagehugolhinds sounds good15:09
lhindsok, got it now. So I will see if there is anything to add, if not will +2 if all is in order.15:10
lhindswe can then bring fungi and co in for VMT approval (if ready)15:11
lhindslooks like oslo.cache is still in progress15:11
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fungisounds good!15:11
lhindscool, promise I will try and get at least pycadf clear for next week.15:12
lhindsso back on the topic of next week, no meeting makes sense to me.15:12
lhindsany other topics?15:13
lhindsk, so I think we can leave it there.15:14
lhindsgagehugo: enjoy the train fog horn in the middle of the night15:14
gagehugolhinds: choo choo :(15:14
lhindssafe journey, and see you all in two weeks!15:15
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep  6 15:15:13 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:15
openstackMinutes (text):
gagehugothanks everyone15:15
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