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| oneswig | #startmeeting scientific-sig | 11:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 9 11:00:32 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 11:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 11:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)" | 11:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_sig' | 11:00 |
| oneswig | greetings | 11:00 |
| oneswig | #link agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_SIG#IRC_Meeting_October_9th_2019 | 11:01 |
| oneswig | (such as it is) | 11:01 |
| dh3 | hi | 11:01 |
| oneswig | Hi dh3, how's things? | 11:02 |
| dh3 | busy :) no change there! | 11:02 |
| oneswig | Saw an interesting development this morning | 11:02 |
| oneswig | #link SUSE drops their OpenStack product https://www.suse.com/c/suse-doubles-down-on-application-delivery-to-meet-customer-needs/ | 11:02 |
| oneswig | Crikey | 11:03 |
| verdurin | Hello. | 11:03 |
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| dh3 | Suse has always been a bit niche (IME) and OpenStack is niche so maybe they're only dropping a tiny bit of business | 11:03 |
| oneswig | Hi verdurin, afternoon | 11:03 |
| janders | g'day | 11:04 |
| janders | sorry for being late | 11:04 |
| janders | Suse dropping OpenStack? | 11:04 |
| oneswig | dh3: does seem like it. I'm mostly worried about where it leaves their core contributors | 11:04 |
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| dh3 | mmm that's a point | 11:04 |
| oneswig | janders: yes it seems like it | 11:04 |
| oneswig | I wonder what alternatives they'll be transitioning customers to, doesn't say in the post... | 11:05 |
| janders | good question however I have to say I dont think I've ever met anyone running SuSE Cloud... | 11:06 |
| oneswig | actually, not sure I have either. | 11:07 |
| oneswig | They do appear to have taken a wrong turn in deployment tooling in recent years, not sure what they ended up with. | 11:07 |
| janders | I did consider them for a couple projects to be fair, but the tooling was always like.... wait.... what?!? | 11:08 |
| janders | active passive databases, chef config management etc | 11:08 |
| oneswig | Well, interesting times. | 11:09 |
| janders | it does look like OpenStack is past the top of the curve | 11:09 |
| janders | those who are using it right are having a blast | 11:09 |
| janders | the others realise maybe it's not the way | 11:09 |
| oneswig | janders: there's certainly a lot less hype and more practical usage it seems. | 11:10 |
| janders | shame likes of IBM seem to be slowing down development of things such as gpfs-openstack integration etc | 11:10 |
| janders | good they wrote the container friendly version before that happened | 11:10 |
| janders | its a shame cause it's a killer | 11:10 |
| janders | with this I've got faster storage in VMs than quite a few supercomputers | 11:11 |
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| janders | and that's without baremetal/sriov | 11:12 |
| oneswig | I wonder what will come of work like this for secure computing frameworks: https://blog.adamspiers.org/2019/09/13/improving-trust-in-the-cloud-with-openstack-and-amd-sev/ | 11:12 |
| janders | yet people are still undecided whether to develop it further... :/ | 11:12 |
| dh3 | we've had users stand up gpfs on openstack instances (without needing sysadmin help!) as part of a k8s layer, that must say something | 11:12 |
| oneswig | dh3: that's impressive and surprising | 11:12 |
| oneswig | might also be a statement on your users | 11:13 |
| oneswig | Is your k8s an OpenShift deployment or do you roll your own? | 11:13 |
| dh3 | some of them do jump in with all 3 feet :) | 11:14 |
| janders | yeah that is the justification I hear from IBM when they say OpenStack integration will not be developed further. Diverting resources to k8s. | 11:14 |
| dh3 | our k8s is DIY at the moment but we are pushing towards Rancher to get the nice UI layer | 11:14 |
| oneswig | dh3: kubespray or more fundamentally DIY? | 11:14 |
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| oneswig | hmm seems we've lost dh3 | 11:15 |
| janders | GPFS is quite flexible - can be relatively simple or quite complex | 11:15 |
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| janders | our first attempt of deploying GPFS-EC ended up destroying all the OSes it was supposed to run on | 11:16 |
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| janders | the magic script was filtering out the software raid but not the member drives - and formatted them :D | 11:16 |
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| dh3 | (dunno what happened there) | 11:16 |
| dh3 | AFAIK people are building on kubespray | 11:16 |
| janders | probably we were the first site to deploy with swraid thats why | 11:16 |
| oneswig | janders: oops... | 11:17 |
| janders | got the hotfix overnight and the second deploy was all good | 11:17 |
| janders | now it's doing 120/50 GB/s read/write on six servers and six clients | 11:18 |
| janders | gpfs backed cinder is getting close to 20GB/s in VMs | 11:19 |
| oneswig | janders: are you using SR-IOV or ASAP2 for storage I/O to VMs? | 11:19 |
| oneswig | or is it all block? | 11:19 |
| janders | that's the best part | 11:19 |
| janders | no | 11:19 |
| janders | hypervisors connect to GPFS over HDR100/HDR200 (depending which ones) | 11:19 |
| dh3 | janders: do you have any write ups, blog posts, etc? | 11:20 |
| janders | VM networking is stock standard | 11:20 |
| janders | no - but happy to chat if you're interested | 11:20 |
| janders | jacob.anders.au@gmail.com | 11:20 |
| dh3 | potentially yes. we haven't used gpfs (on the "systems supported" side) for years. but always happy to look around. I'll drop you an email, thanks | 11:21 |
| janders | we could make it quite a bit faster especially on the write side but we traded that off for redundancy | 11:21 |
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| janders | losing a server doesn't hurt it, could probably run without two but that's not a requirement so haven't tested that scenario | 11:22 |
| janders | essentially it's ceph architecture with HPC filesystem performance | 11:23 |
| janders | and minimal changes to the OpenStack | 11:23 |
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| oneswig | janders: have you seen roadmaps for that? | 11:23 |
| janders | for what exactly? | 11:23 |
| oneswig | Ongoing development for GPFS+OpenStack | 11:24 |
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| janders | I'm being told they pulled resources from this and only maintain it but do not develop it | 11:24 |
| oneswig | Are there constraints on the version you can run? | 11:24 |
| janders | I've got it going with RH-OSP13 | 11:25 |
| janders | but I think it would run with latest, too | 11:25 |
| janders | I currently have cinder and glance integrated, I tested nova, too and it worked fine | 11:26 |
| dh3 | do you mount gpfs as (say) /var/lib/nova/instances on the hypervisor then let everything run as normal? | 11:27 |
| janders | for nova, yes | 11:27 |
| janders | for cinder, no | 11:27 |
| janders | though with nova I only turned it on for testing, I have 1.5TB of NVMe in each compute node | 11:29 |
| janders | GPFS can do 70k IOPS per client, that NVMe can do 10x that | 11:29 |
| janders | so right now it's cinder for capacity/throughput and ephemeral for IOPS | 11:30 |
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| oneswig | A good balance of options | 11:30 |
| verdurin | janders: I'll contact you about this too, if I may | 11:30 |
| oneswig | (for the user that knows how to exploit that) | 11:30 |
| janders | sure - no worries, happy to chat more | 11:31 |
| dh3 | similar to us but the compute is SSD not NVMe | 11:31 |
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| janders | it is a very interesting direction cause there's a lot of push for performance hence walking away from VMs to containers and baremetal | 11:32 |
| oneswig | janders: what kind of workloads are you supporting with this cloud? | 11:32 |
| janders | and with something like that if it's storage performance they want, VMs suddenly become good enough again | 11:32 |
| janders | it's for the cybersecurity research system. The workloads are still being identified/decided. | 11:33 |
| janders | GPFS was designed to stand up to ML workloads that were killing our older HPC storage | 11:33 |
| janders | it's essentially a smaller more efficiently balanced version of our BeeGFS design | 11:33 |
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| janders | if I had PCIe4 these could do 40GB/s read per node | 11:33 |
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| janders | but unfortunately I don't | 11:34 |
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| janders | do you guys have any experience tuning GPFS clients for good IOPS numbers? | 11:35 |
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| oneswig | sorry, not here jamespage | 11:36 |
| oneswig | janders I mean - lost again? | 11:36 |
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| oneswig | welcome back janders :-) | 11:39 |
| janders | thanks! :) network hiccups | 11:39 |
| verdurin | janders: our cluster nodes are all GPFS but we haven't needed to do any advanced tuning with them | 11:39 |
| janders | do you remember what IOPS are you getting on clients? | 11:39 |
| verdurin | Not offhand, but I can find out. | 11:40 |
| janders | that would be quite interesting | 11:40 |
| janders | what's the storage backend on your cluster? | 11:40 |
| verdurin | This is mainly EDR to spinning disk. | 11:40 |
| verdurin | Some FDR. | 11:41 |
| janders | JBODs or array based? | 11:41 |
| verdurin | DDN arrays. | 11:41 |
| verdurin | Latest iteration will have a small pool of SSD. | 11:42 |
| janders | what's the capacity? | 11:42 |
| verdurin | ~7PB usable. | 11:43 |
| janders | nice! | 11:44 |
| janders | ours is ~250TB | 11:44 |
| verdurin | Hence we're not desperately keen on capacity-based licensing... | 11:44 |
| janders | but all-NVME | 11:44 |
| janders | then EC is not a good idea - cheaper to buy more kit | 11:45 |
| verdurin | oneswig: your earlier point about contributors is an important one. Lots of people stepping down from PTL-type roles of late, I see. | 11:45 |
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| oneswig | Yes that has been a trend. | 11:46 |
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| oneswig | We've been looking recently at the condition of Tungsten Fabric integration with Kolla-Ansible. It's pretty good, in that it's less than a year behind, but doesn't appear to be advancing beyond that point. I'm still investigating. | 11:48 |
| oneswig | It appears Tungsten has some invasive requirements for installing widgets in the containers of other services. | 11:49 |
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| oneswig | janders: in a vague attempt to follow the agenda, there was a question on the SIG Slack about usage accounting. What do you use for this, if anything? | 11:50 |
| janders | nothing at the moment | 11:51 |
| janders | our User Services guys interview users to identify how much resources they really need (as opposed to what they think they need or they would look like) and set the quotas accordingly | 11:51 |
| janders | from there it's assumed it's a solved problem | 11:51 |
| janders | not very accurate but kinda works for now | 11:52 |
| janders | better than giving users what they ask for on a shared system I suppose | 11:52 |
| janders | hope to have a better answer few months down the track :) | 11:53 |
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| oneswig | Thanks janders, good to know | 11:53 |
| janders | given the User Services guys are nice to us we are nice to them and give them a simple yaml interface for managing projects, memberships and quotas | 11:54 |
| janders | from there ansible sets it all, they don't need to know OpenStack commands | 11:54 |
| dh3 | "simple" + "yaml"... :/ our service desk get to set quotas using Cloudforms (it was only marginally quicker to set up than writing our own interface) | 11:56 |
| oneswig | Nearly at time - anything for AOB? | 11:57 |
| verdurin | oneswig: billing (or rather costing) keeps coming up for us, and we've relied on rough heuristics for now. | 11:57 |
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| oneswig | verdurin: noted. At this end, I'm hoping for priteau to update the study he did on CloudKitty earlier this summer. | 11:58 |
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| janders25 | ################################ sample-five: name: sample-five enabled: true description: asdf quota: instances: 3 cores: 20 ram: 25600 volumes: 6 gigabytes: 5 snapshots: 3 floating_ips: 8 members: - user123 networking: create_default: true create_router: | 11:58 |
| janders25 | true################################ | 11:59 |
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| janders25 | oops formatting died but I wanted to show that yaml can be simple to work with | 11:59 |
| janders25 | my networking is really bad today too | 11:59 |
| dh3 | I know that but some people are CLI-avoidant! | 11:59 |
| priteau | janders25: If they were not nice to you, the interface would be XML? | 12:00 |
| dh3 | (hard enough getting them to edit the LSF users file) | 12:00 |
| janders25 | true! :) | 12:00 |
| oneswig | And for APEL users, at some point we hope to complete the loop with data submission from OpenStack infrastructure | 12:00 |
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| oneswig | hi priteau - ears burning :-) ? | 12:00 |
| oneswig | Ah, we are out of time | 12:00 |
| janders25 | priteau: yes! xml.... you nailed it, I was editing pacemaker configs today... argh! | 12:00 |
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| oneswig | xml gives a vintage feel nowadays | 12:00 |
| oneswig | #endmeeting | 12:00 |
| janders25 | indeed! | 12:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 12:01 | |
| janders25 | thank you all | 12:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 9 12:00:59 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2019/scientific_sig.2019-10-09-11.00.html | 12:01 |
| oneswig | Thanks all | 12:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2019/scientific_sig.2019-10-09-11.00.txt | 12:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2019/scientific_sig.2019-10-09-11.00.log.html | 12:01 |
| dh3 | thanks, ttfn | 12:01 |
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| verdurin | Bye. | 12:02 |
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| jungleboyj | #startmeeting Cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 9 16:00:20 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jungleboyj. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | Courtesy ping: jungleboyj whoami-rajat rajinir lseki carloss pots woojay erlon geguileo eharney rosmaita enriquetaso e0ne smcginnis davidsha walshh_ xyang hemna _hemna tosky sfernand | 16:00 |
| eharney | hey | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | o/ | 16:00 |
| walshh_ | hi | 16:00 |
| xyang | hi | 16:00 |
| whoami-rajat | Hi | 16:00 |
| geguileo | hi! o/ | 16:00 |
| rosmaita | o/ | 16:00 |
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| davidsha | o/ | 16:01 |
| e0ne | hi | 16:01 |
| enriquetaso | o/ | 16:01 |
| dviroel | hi | 16:01 |
| woojay | o/ | 16:01 |
| carloss | hi | 16:01 |
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| jungleboyj | @! | 16:02 |
| _pewp_ | jungleboyj ( *՞ਊ՞*)ﾉ | 16:02 |
| jungleboyj | Look at all the people. | 16:02 |
| tosky | o/ | 16:02 |
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| rosmaita | big turnout | 16:02 |
| jungleboyj | Figures given there is a light agenda. :-) | 16:03 |
| jungleboyj | Anyway, lets get started. | 16:03 |
| jungleboyj | #topic announcements | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:04 | |
| jungleboyj | Looks like the announcements are yours rosmaita .... | 16:04 |
| rosmaita | ok | 16:04 |
| rosmaita | first, RC-2 is available -- please test! | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | rosmaita: ++ | 16:04 |
| rosmaita | the "final RC" is whatever has been released on Friday (11 October) | 16:05 |
| rosmaita | so if we have any critical bug fixes, we need to find, fix, and merge by Friday | 16:05 |
| smcginnis | Which day? | 16:05 |
| rosmaita | otherwise, if there's anything found after that, it's up to the release team (not us) whether it can be included in the release | 16:05 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: Oh no he didn't! | 16:06 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:06 |
| smcginnis | :D :D | 16:06 |
| jungleboyj | rosmaita: Save yourself from the torture I got in the past. | 16:06 |
| * jungleboyj whispers just say Thursday | 16:06 | |
| rosmaita | oh, ok, Thursday (10 Oct) | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:07 |
| smcginnis | Good save. :P | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: He is smarter than I am. | 16:07 |
| rosmaita | anyway, i don't see any bugs filed or patches proposed for stable/train, and we are running out of time, so i think RC-2 will be our final RC | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | Good. Nice that we could get it done in two RCs. Thanks for the great leadership there rosmaita | 16:08 |
| rosmaita | other announcement is the running reminder to please include topics on the PTG planning etherpad | 16:08 |
| rosmaita | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-ussuri-ptg-planning | 16:08 |
| jungleboyj | rosmaita: ++ If we are going all the way to Shanghai it should be productive. | 16:08 |
| rosmaita | and i guess final announcement is Train coordinated release is one week from today! | 16:08 |
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| jungleboyj | Whooo whooo, chugga chugga ... | 16:09 |
| rosmaita | that's all from me | 16:09 |
| jungleboyj | rosmaita: Awesome. Thank you. | 16:09 |
| rosmaita | :D | 16:10 |
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| jungleboyj | I only had one other topic for this week. | 16:10 |
| jungleboyj | #topic Discuss Matt's proposal to remove legacy attach code | 16:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss Matt's proposal to remove legacy attach code (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:10 | |
| jungleboyj | It looks like the last note in the thread is here: | 16:11 |
| jungleboyj | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-October/009959.html | 16:11 |
| e0ne | can we really drop APIs with microversions and before cinder API v4? | 16:11 |
| jungleboyj | Want to make sure that we get the people who understand this code involved. | 16:11 |
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| smcginnis | Yeah, I think we had realized we can't ever really drop code. | 16:12 |
| jungleboyj | e0ne: Good question. | 16:12 |
| smcginnis | Even with a new microversion that excludes it, we still need the code there for the lower MVs. | 16:12 |
| geguileo | we don't drop the API code, they just stop using it | 16:13 |
| smcginnis | Nova can choose not to call the old code anymore of course. | 16:13 |
| e0ne | smcginnis: +1 | 16:13 |
| geguileo | right now they may call both of them from the same host | 16:13 |
| geguileo | depending on the instance and how/when the volumes where attached | 16:13 |
| jungleboyj | But this isn't a question of removing it from Cinder, it is removing it from Nova. Right? | 16:13 |
| geguileo | yes | 16:14 |
| smcginnis | We should figure out a good way to track things we do want to drop in case we ever do decide to do a v4 release and consolidate all mv changes into a new base version. | 16:14 |
| geguileo | but to remove it from 'nova they need to migrate the BDM information to Cinder | 16:14 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: ++ | 16:14 |
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| jungleboyj | geguileo: So do we have a response to Matt's last note? | 16:17 |
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| geguileo | I don't have one yet (been sick in bed Mon and Tues) | 16:18 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: Ugh. :-( Sorry to hear that. Feel better. | 16:18 |
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| geguileo | I'm better now, thanks | 16:19 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: If you are planning to respond though, I think we are good. Just wanted to make sure that that wasn't forgotten. | 16:19 |
| jungleboyj | So, I think that is all I had on that topic. | 16:20 |
| jungleboyj | #topic Open Discussion | 16:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:20 | |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: I'm not entirely sure that it will work :-( | 16:20 |
| jungleboyj | :-( | 16:20 |
| rosmaita | yeah, let's revisit this at next week's meeting | 16:20 |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: in my opinion I would create a new microversion and accept the PUT method of the attachment to accept the connection information | 16:20 |
| geguileo | rosmaita: sounds good | 16:21 |
| jungleboyj | rosmaita: ++ | 16:21 |
| davee__ | +1 | 16:21 |
| jungleboyj | Respond to Matt, see what he says and we can further discuss based on that. | 16:21 |
| rosmaita | geguileo: that seems like a good idea, though, we make a call so that nova can pass us the "old" info and that way it won't get lost | 16:22 |
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| rosmaita | i mean, we don't make a call, we make a new call available for nova to use | 16:22 |
| jungleboyj | Yeah. | 16:22 |
| geguileo | rosmaita: we add functionality to the old attachments call | 16:23 |
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| rosmaita | ok | 16:23 |
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| jungleboyj | If we can't ever get rid of it though ... not the end of the world to help Nova get beyond it. | 16:23 |
| jungleboyj | The Greater Good | 16:23 |
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| jungleboyj | Ok. Any other topics for today? | 16:25 |
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| whoami-rajat | jungleboyj: just wanted to enquire if this is the right thing to do[1] since somehow the online migrations are already running on grenade jobs on gate (still looking into it) | 16:25 |
| whoami-rajat | [1] https://review.opendev.org/#/c/686772/ | 16:25 |
| davee__ | support it until a proper announcement with plenty of lead time for deprecation for users to update their environment appropriately | 16:25 |
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| jungleboyj | whoami-rajat: Good question. | 16:27 |
| jungleboyj | whoami-rajat: I am not very familiar with Grenade. | 16:27 |
| jungleboyj | eharney: ^^^ | 16:27 |
| tosky | it's not much about grenade, I'd say | 16:27 |
| smcginnis | I thought online migrations just ran at startup. | 16:27 |
| tosky | grenade deploys using devstack, then it updates the code using the same configuration and some scripts which follows the suggested upgrade procedures | 16:28 |
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| tosky | the question is more whether the online migrations needs to be run automatically or not; the documentation seems to hint that they need to be executed manually | 16:28 |
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| tosky | or at least that's how my unexperienced eye reads them :) (looking for the link...) | 16:29 |
| tosky | https://docs.openstack.org/cinder/latest/upgrade.html?highlight=online#online-data-migrations | 16:29 |
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| whoami-rajat | this man page [1] states 'This command should be run after upgrading the database schema.' which is exactly what i did in my patch | 16:30 |
| whoami-rajat | [1] https://docs.openstack.org/cinder/latest/cli/cinder-manage.html | 16:30 |
| jungleboyj | whoami-rajat: But you think that it is already getting run even without your patch in place? | 16:32 |
| smcginnis | Would be odd that we would need explicit handling for Cinder. Should be the same for all services. | 16:33 |
| smcginnis | At least I would hope. | 16:33 |
| whoami-rajat | smcginnis: if it runs after startup, is nova following a different approach to it[1]? | 16:33 |
| whoami-rajat | https://opendev.org/openstack/grenade/src/branch/master/projects/60_nova/upgrade.sh#L133-L136 | 16:33 |
| smcginnis | whoami-rajat: Oh? So you're just doing the same thing nova is doing? | 16:33 |
| tosky | that's the idea of whoami-rajat's patch, the question is: is it the right way? Is the documentation unclear? | 16:34 |
| smcginnis | That looks like it should be fine then. | 16:34 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: ++ | 16:35 |
| davee__ | smcginnis pulls pin on grenade and tosses to whoami-rajat ... | 16:35 |
| smcginnis | :) | 16:35 |
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| whoami-rajat | jungleboyj: yes, initially my patch failed due to a dependency on previous online migration, but when grenade updated master, it passed | 16:35 |
| jungleboyj | He he | 16:35 |
| jungleboyj | whoami-rajat: Ok, than I think that is probably the direction we want to go. | 16:36 |
| smcginnis | Unfortunately I think dulek and scottda were the ones that knew all of the DB migration stuff well. | 16:36 |
| geguileo | well, we had a problem with online migration.... | 16:36 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: Unfortunately. I used to know it to some extent in the past but have been totally disconnected on the online stuff. | 16:37 |
| geguileo | where we didn't follow the basics of it | 16:37 |
| geguileo | and required services to be up and running | 16:37 |
| smcginnis | Which is weird, because I would expect "online" migrations to require that anyway. | 16:37 |
| geguileo | which is a no-no for online data migrations | 16:37 |
| smcginnis | But yeah, I think it would be useful if all of the expectations and things were better documented somewhere. | 16:37 |
| * jungleboyj is so confused | 16:38 | |
| jungleboyj | So what does Online mean? | 16:38 |
| smcginnis | Any maybe they are, but I don't know where. | 16:38 |
| geguileo | smcginnis: I think I added it in a patch | 16:38 |
| tosky | but then we may want to recheck how to make sure that granade (or any upgrade test) catches any issue linked to *not* executing the online migrations | 16:38 |
| davee__ | I t would be a reasonable assumption that any patch that uses a modified DB schema should also perform a DB Migration as part of that patch | 16:39 |
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| geguileo | https://opendev.org/openstack/cinder/src/branch/master/cinder/cmd/manage.py#L244 | 16:40 |
| tosky | does it mean that the online migration code is executed automatically? | 16:40 |
| * tosky confused | 16:40 | |
| geguileo | tosky: no, I think it is executed as part of any upgrade | 16:41 |
| geguileo | the whole upgrade thing is quite complex | 16:41 |
| smcginnis | "online-migrations" seems to be a bit of a misnomer. | 16:42 |
| jungleboyj | So what makes them online vs any other DB upgrade? | 16:42 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: ++ | 16:42 |
| geguileo | but in sumary it's something like this | 16:42 |
| geguileo | you make some changes in the DB that require either new info or info that you can get from other parts of the DB | 16:42 |
| geguileo | then you add online migration code to your component | 16:42 |
| geguileo | that runs every time you load the object and see it doesn't have the new data | 16:42 |
| geguileo | so you load, check, if old, then change, and save | 16:42 |
| geguileo | that way you are postponing the changes until the objects are used | 16:43 |
| geguileo | and spread the load | 16:43 |
| geguileo | then, for the next release you have an online migration code on the manager | 16:43 |
| jungleboyj | Ok. | 16:43 |
| geguileo | that does that serially, without requiring the services running (in case this is an FFU and not a rolling upgrade) | 16:43 |
| geguileo | and on that same release you can remove the online migration from your service code so it doesn't get checked on the loads | 16:44 |
| geguileo | because the cinder-manage online migration code will be run before the new services are started | 16:44 |
| davee__ | geguileo gets it +2 | 16:45 |
| smcginnis | So these can be removed now on master, right? https://opendev.org/openstack/cinder/src/branch/master/cinder/cmd/manage.py#L253 | 16:45 |
| geguileo | maybe you cannot remove it on the next (N+1) but instead in N+2 | 16:45 |
| geguileo | I'm not entirely sure about that one | 16:45 |
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| geguileo | but when you run the cinder-manage online migrations, the amount of data to migrate should be considerably smaller | 16:45 |
| geguileo | and therefore faster | 16:46 |
| smcginnis | The code comment you added indicated N+1. I think we still state we only do single hop upgrades, but I suppose it would be a small performance impact to keep things around an extra release just in case. | 16:46 |
| geguileo | smcginnis: you can remove the cinder-manage code in N+1 | 16:46 |
| geguileo | smcginnis: not sure about the service online migration code though, in case you are running rolling upgrades | 16:47 |
| geguileo | I would have to think about it to be sure | 16:47 |
| smcginnis | Ah, I think I get it. | 16:47 |
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| smcginnis | Thanks | 16:47 |
| davee__ | always a good idea to include a versioning field in the db schema aand base upgrade logic on that version number so you know what needs to be done to end up in a stable operational state | 16:47 |
| smcginnis | That's basically how it works. | 16:47 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: ++ Yeah, that is helpful. | 16:48 |
| smcginnis | At least for the schema. Not the data that these appear to address. | 16:48 |
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| tosky | when everything is confirmed, could the documentation at https://docs.openstack.org/cinder/latest/upgrade.html?highlight=online#online-data-migrations be updated then to explain that it's not strictly needed, but it just speeds up everything? | 16:49 |
| whoami-rajat | geguileo: so the online migration running is related to upgrade process and not cinder right? it might be a part of the volbak playbook or the upgrade process grenade follows ? | 16:49 |
| tosky | (or whethever is the expected behavior) | 16:49 |
| geguileo | whoami-rajat: the cinder-manage online migration is part of the upgrade | 16:50 |
| geguileo | whoami-rajat: the online migrations should also be part of the cinder service code | 16:50 |
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| smcginnis | That's part of the confusion - there are two different "online migration" steps. | 16:52 |
| jungleboyj | There is the part that runs online as part of the service and the part that runs later during upgrade? | 16:52 |
| whoami-rajat | geguileo: so it should be run manually during an upgrade or is automatically associated with the startup of services? | 16:53 |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: yup, great summary :-) | 16:53 |
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| geguileo | whoami-rajat: it should be handled by the upgrade mechanism | 16:53 |
| geguileo | whoami-rajat: whatever that is | 16:53 |
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| jungleboyj | geguileo: Ah, so I am getting it. So that is why people got in trouble is they had originally written it to assume the service was up but then when they moved it to upgrade and the service wasn't up, it blew up. | 16:53 |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: yup | 16:53 |
| geguileo | jungleboyj: it'll only be up if we are doing rolling upgrades | 16:54 |
| geguileo | but if you do a forward upgrade from N to N+3, then you bring them down | 16:54 |
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| geguileo | and you run db-sync and online upgrade on each of the intermediary releases | 16:54 |
| jungleboyj | geguileo: Ok. Good to know. | 16:54 |
| jungleboyj | This makes more sense now. | 16:55 |
| davidsha | Just want to get this in quickly before the meeting ends, I think this bug may have gone under the radar: https://bugs.launchpad.net/os-brick/+bug/1843431 | 16:55 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1843431 in os-brick "NVMeOF connector fails to disconnect a volume with the latest nvme-cli" [Undecided,New] | 16:55 |
| smcginnis | Oh great. Any code ready for that yet? | 16:56 |
| jungleboyj | davidsha: Thanks for raising. Look like we have someone fixing it. | 16:56 |
| davidsha | This patch is it? https://review.opendev.org/#/c/683917/ | 16:57 |
| smcginnis | Ah, just didn't get linked to the bug report. | 16:57 |
| jungleboyj | Weird. | 16:58 |
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| smcginnis | One other quick thing before we end - we had a few late driver submissions in train. | 16:58 |
| smcginnis | I've put them under a better topic to help track them for ussuri. | 16:58 |
| smcginnis | https://review.opendev.org/#/q/topic:ussuri-drivers+(status:open+OR+status:merged) | 16:58 |
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| smcginnis | Any other ones, please update the topic to ussuri-drivers to help us keep track of what's out there. | 16:58 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: Thanks! | 16:59 |
| davidsha | Thanks! | 16:59 |
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| jungleboyj | Ok. | 17:00 |
| jungleboyj | Our time is up. Thank you everyone. | 17:00 |
| jungleboyj | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 9 17:00:38 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2019/cinder.2019-10-09-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2019/cinder.2019-10-09-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2019/cinder.2019-10-09-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
| geguileo | thanks everyone! | 17:00 |
| davidsha | Cya! | 17:01 |
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| timburke | #startmeeting swift | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 9 21:00:02 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is timburke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 21:00 |
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| timburke | who's here for the swift meeting? | 21:00 |
| kota_ | o/ | 21:00 |
| alecuyer | o/ | 21:00 |
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| rledisez | o/ | 21:00 |
| mattoliverau | o/ | 21:01 |
| timburke | i know clayg's under the weather today, so i'm assuming tdasilva or i will be talking about versioning later | 21:01 |
| timburke | #topic Shanghai | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Shanghai (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:01 | |
| timburke | a few different things to bring up | 21:02 |
| timburke | first, as always, there's the etherpad for topics | 21:02 |
| timburke | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/swift-ptg-shanghai | 21:02 |
| timburke | but we've also been getting more details about logistics | 21:02 |
| timburke | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-October/010047.html | 21:02 |
| timburke | notably, looks like | 21:02 |
| timburke | * we've got three days' worth of time dedicated to swift | 21:02 |
| timburke | * no coffee in the meeting rooms | 21:02 |
| timburke | * we *can* move furniture this time ;-) | 21:02 |
| timburke | * and sounds like there's going to be a pretty hard cut-off at 4:30, so we may need to investigate other places to continue conversations before dinner | 21:03 |
| mattoliverau | No coffee! | 21:03 |
| kota_ | :/ | 21:03 |
| timburke | i know, right? and they expect work to get done... ;-) | 21:03 |
| kota_ | perhaps, tea exists, instead? | 21:03 |
| rledisez | mattoliverau: but the discussions can move to a pub from 4:30, you got to choose between coffee or beer ;) | 21:04 |
| alecuyer | doesn't look like it from the link :/ | 21:04 |
| mattoliverau | lol, that's a good point | 21:04 |
| timburke | nope :-( | 21:04 |
| timburke | "Unfortunately, the venue does not allow ANY food or drink in any of the rooms." | 21:04 |
| kota_ | *not allow ANY food or drink in any of the rooms.* | 21:04 |
| kota_ | :/ | 21:04 |
| mattoliverau | So there may be coffee outside | 21:04 |
| timburke | surely | 21:04 |
| mattoliverau | so more hallway track time | 21:04 |
| timburke | and we can maybe organize some breakfast get-togethers or something | 21:05 |
| timburke | and finally, i remember being sad that i didn't think to do this in denver, so i proposed an ops feedback session; looks like we haven't had one of those since Boston | 21:05 |
| timburke | and it was accepted! | 21:05 |
| timburke | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/shanghai-2019/summit-schedule/events/24413/swift-ops-feedback | 21:05 |
| mattoliverau | oh cool, nice one | 21:05 |
| kota_ | nice! | 21:06 |
| timburke | so we'll see who we can meet there :-) | 21:06 |
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| timburke | any other comments/questions on Shanghai? any further information i should try to run down for people? | 21:07 |
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| timburke | i ought to book the team photo; do we have any preferences on timing? morning, afternoon, ... | 21:08 |
| alecuyer | I don't mind either time | 21:08 |
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| rledisez | given the timezone, I think I would prefer during the night, so whatever… | 21:08 |
| timburke | maybe i'll aim for right before or right after lunch | 21:09 |
| timburke | next up | 21:09 |
| timburke | #topic train release | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "train release (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:09 | |
| mattoliverau | right before so you don't have to rush back. | 21:09 |
| timburke | just a quick follow-up from last week | 21:09 |
| kota_ | i don't have strict limitation. I'll leave Saturday morning so I can make me available until Friday | 21:09 |
| timburke | we have a 2.23.0! \o/ | 21:09 |
| kota_ | good | 21:09 |
| mattoliverau | \o/ | 21:09 |
| timburke | and a stable/train branch | 21:09 |
| timburke | thanks again for all your hard work -- best release yet :-) | 21:10 |
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| timburke | on to updates! | 21:10 |
| zaitcev | Make sure not to wear any signage on your shirt, most especially not in Chinese ideograms that you cannot read. Unbeknownst to you, they may refer to Taiwan, Tibet, HK, or Uigurs. | 21:10 |
| timburke | good call | 21:11 |
| alecuyer | right | 21:11 |
| timburke | #topic versioning | 21:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "versioning (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:11 | |
| timburke | i haven't seen a tdasilva yet... | 21:11 |
| timburke | but we've been investigating this null-namespace idea... and bumping into some complications with C code (perhaps unsurprisingly) | 21:12 |
| zaitcev | I'm surprised, actually. You can have an empty string "" in C easily, so... | 21:13 |
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| timburke | but a string like "foo\0bar"... | 21:13 |
| timburke | anyway, still trying to figure out how best to move forward with it, but i don't think we've been able to rule it out entirely yet. if NUL doesn't work out, we may try to claw back "\x01", similar to how we claimed the leading "." namespace in accounts | 21:15 |
| timburke | still need to wire up versioning to use the reserved namespace, and layer s3api on top of that. we should have something of a solid proof-of-concept in time for discussions in Shanghai, though | 21:16 |
| rledisez | just saying as I heard it from a colleague today, why not using / as it is already forbidden in container names. the reason might be the enormous impact on codebase | 21:16 |
| rledisez | I don't know if it was considered | 21:17 |
| timburke | interesting thought. i think we'd have a hard time distinguishing container requests from object requests, though... hm... | 21:18 |
| rledisez | yeah, that's what I though too | 21:18 |
| timburke | add an x-backend-no-really-this-is-my-container-name header? ;-) | 21:19 |
| rledisez | timburke: nah, let's fork sqlite instead ;) | 21:19 |
| timburke | anyway, i don't think we're stuck on anything at the moment, just a matter of needing to try a few more things and get a better feel for how we ought to move next | 21:20 |
| timburke | #topic lots of small files | 21:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "lots of small files (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:20 | |
| timburke | alecuyer, hopefully my changes to https://review.opendev.org/#/c/666378/ were agreeable | 21:21 |
| alecuyer | Yes, thanks a lot for your help with this one! | 21:21 |
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| timburke | happy to! and there's also a fresh merge from master | 21:21 |
| kota_ | tests! | 21:21 |
| alecuyer | next, I'll need to rebase this one https://review.opendev.org/#/c/659254/ , which is much smaller | 21:22 |
| timburke | oh nice, yeah | 21:23 |
| alecuyer | and then I'd like to think about how to handle leveldb failure (again I'd like to stress that we're never seeing leveldb self destructing, but occasionally fsck will remove a .ldb file and the db goes bad) | 21:23 |
| timburke | and i think i spotted a problem in the quarantine logic: https://review.opendev.org/#/c/686846/ | 21:23 |
| timburke | interesting | 21:23 |
| alecuyer | oh I missed it! will check it, thanks timburke | 21:24 |
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| alecuyer | currently a leveldb failure is handled "out of band" . I wonder if that should happen within swift (rebuild the db if it's corrupt) | 21:24 |
| alecuyer | We don't expect swift to repair a filesystem, but in this case I'm not sure.. | 21:24 |
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| timburke | do we have a feeling for roughly how long it takes to rebuild the db? | 21:25 |
| rledisez | I think for a 6TB drive it's about 12 hours if i remember well | 21:25 |
| alecuyer | For a disk full of small files yes that's about right (but that's what we're expecting for LOSF right) | 21:26 |
| * timburke whistles | 21:26 | |
| rledisez | if there is fewer bigger files it would be way faster of course | 21:26 |
| timburke | there should be multiple dbs per drive, right? would that be for rebuilding *all* dbs on a drive? | 21:27 |
| alecuyer | there is one db per drive/policy | 21:27 |
| timburke | oh, i was just mis-remembering | 21:28 |
| rledisez | in the example I gave there is only one policy per drive, so one db | 21:28 |
| timburke | makes sense | 21:28 |
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| rledisez | jsut to put things in regards, it's way faster than xfsrepair in the same condition | 21:28 |
| alecuyer | (about 70 million "files") | 21:29 |
| mattoliverau | I guess an auditor could fire off an async concurrent job to start a rebuild if detected.. but 12 hours means you'd want to be sure. | 21:29 |
| timburke | yeah, my initial thought was that maybe the auditor (or maybe even replicator/reconstructor) could handle this... but that might make for some really lumpy cycle times... | 21:30 |
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| alecuyer | currently we watch it through the index server python parent process | 21:30 |
| mattoliverau | yeah, it might be considered a different type of job | 21:30 |
| mattoliverau | So it could enqueue something maybe. that'll either alert operators or maybe even fire something off. | 21:31 |
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| alecuyer | yes one could have the choice of manual trigger vs fully automated. So something to think about | 21:32 |
| mattoliverau | its a thought. Self healing would be cool :) | 21:32 |
| mattoliverau | Add to the ideas list :) | 21:32 |
| timburke | 👍 is there anything else we should be looking at/thinking about? | 21:33 |
| rledisez | just thinking, if the repair does not start, the data are mostly unreachable, right? so any good reasons to not fire the repair? | 21:33 |
| rledisez | just a note of our deployment: we tried to extend our deployment of pure golang leveldb but we had to rollback, some strange errors alecuyer is investigating | 21:33 |
| alecuyer | timburke: no I think that's it from me | 21:34 |
| timburke | cool. i'll think more about the db file stuff... | 21:35 |
| timburke | #topic sharding | 21:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "sharding (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:35 | |
| timburke | mattoliverau took a look at the stat-latching patch! | 21:35 |
| timburke | thanks :-D | 21:35 |
| mattoliverau | I haven't really done as much on this as I'd like.. kinda been distracted. | 21:36 |
| mattoliverau | oh yeah I did look at that | 21:36 |
| mattoliverau | I like it. Will test it some more locally in an SAIO | 21:36 |
| mattoliverau | Try and do that today while I have no idea what I'm doing workwise | 21:36 |
| timburke | something something, changing strategic direction something something? | 21:37 |
| mattoliverau | yeah. Well I was lucky and wasn't layed off, but given a new role outside of openstack | 21:37 |
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| mattoliverau | in SES of all places. | 21:37 |
| mattoliverau | But no idea what that really means until I meet with my new manager today sometime. | 21:38 |
| timburke | true. thanks for still showing up here this week! i hope you can keep working on swift, but i know you'll keep doing good work whatever you're working on | 21:38 |
| mattoliverau | I hope to still be given time to work on an upstream project... but it might mean no more travel to openstack events supported by my company. | 21:39 |
| mattoliverau | ta | 21:39 |
| kota_ | :( | 21:39 |
| timburke | that's all i had | 21:39 |
| timburke | #topic open discussion | 21:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:40 | |
| timburke | anything else we ought to discuss? | 21:40 |
| timburke | all right, let's let mattoliverau and kota_ get breakfast, and alecuyer get to bed ;-) | 21:43 |
| mattoliverau | :) | 21:43 |
| kota_ | thx | 21:43 |
| timburke | thank you all for coming, and thank you for working on swift! | 21:43 |
| alecuyer | thhanks all | 21:43 |
| timburke | #endmeeting | 21:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 21:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 9 21:43:24 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2019/swift.2019-10-09-21.00.html | 21:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2019/swift.2019-10-09-21.00.txt | 21:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2019/swift.2019-10-09-21.00.log.html | 21:43 |
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