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| slaweq | #startmeeting neutron_drivers | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Feb 21 14:00:08 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is slaweq. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 14:00 |
| njohnston | o/ | 14:00 |
| slaweq | welcome on drivers meeting :) | 14:00 |
| yamamoto | hi | 14:00 |
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| stephen-ma | hi | 14:00 |
| imalinovskiy | hi | 14:00 |
| amotoki | hi | 14:00 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 14:00 |
| slaweq | ok, lets start as we have full agenda for today | 14:00 |
| slaweq | #topic RFEs | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RFEs (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:01 | |
| ralonsoh | hi | 14:01 |
| jlibosva | o/ | 14:01 |
| slaweq | first 2 RFEs which comes in some way together: | 14:01 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1862032 | 14:01 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1862032 in neutron "[rfe] Add RBAC for subnet pools" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Igor Malinovskiy (imalinovskiy) | 14:01 |
| slaweq | and | 14:01 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1862968 | 14:01 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1862968 in neutron "[rfe] Add RBAC support for address scopes" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Igor Malinovskiy (imalinovskiy) | 14:01 |
| ralonsoh | both RFE make sense | 14:02 |
| imalinovskiy | I've question related to the logic of adding RBAC policies to SNP | 14:03 |
| imalinovskiy | Does it make sense to to auto-share Address scope with target project when admin share Subnetpool? or it's better to just check permissions, if Address Scope is not shared to target project - show validation error and ask admin to share address scope for target project first | 14:04 |
| slaweq | ralonsoh: I agree - for me both makes sense too | 14:04 |
| njohnston | I agree | 14:04 |
| amotoki | generally both make sense to me. what I haven't fully checked is what are the requirements on sharing subnetpools and address scopes. | 14:05 |
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| amotoki | if project A is a subnet pool owner and would like to share it to project B, should associated address scope be shared to project B? | 14:06 |
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| imalinovskiy | amotoki: yes that's my question | 14:06 |
| amotoki | Assume the address scope is owned by project C. Does project C need to share the address scope to project B too? | 14:07 |
| amotoki | imalinovskiy: yeah, that's a question which hit me. | 14:07 |
| imalinovskiy | I can start with obvious implementation - forbid to share SNP if it has assigned AS and target project doesn't have permission for this AS | 14:10 |
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| slaweq | imalinovskiy: I think that this will be easier way to go | 14:10 |
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| amotoki | agree. | 14:11 |
| slaweq | we can modify it later if there will be use case/need for that | 14:11 |
| slaweq | yamamoto, mlavalle any thoughts? | 14:11 |
| mlavalle | I am good with both RFEs. Seem no brainers | 14:11 |
| yamamoto | it makes sense to me | 14:12 |
| slaweq | ok, thx | 14:12 |
| slaweq | so I will mark both of them as approved | 14:12 |
| slaweq | (that was fast) :) | 14:12 |
| slaweq | lets go with next one then | 14:12 |
| mlavalle | as I said, no brainers | 14:12 |
| amotoki | do we need a spec on this or skip it? | 14:13 |
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| slaweq | amotoki: IMHO we don't need spec for that but I'm open for it if You want :) | 14:13 |
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| amotoki | two RFEs are tightly coupled, so it seems better to clarify the relationship somewhere | 14:14 |
| amotoki | at the momet, both RFE bugs have simple description. | 14:14 |
| slaweq | amotoki: ok, so lets have a spec for it with described details of reference between both of them | 14:14 |
| amotoki | imalinovskiy: can we add a bit more detail in the RFE descriptions | 14:14 |
| amotoki | it would be a simple spec | 14:15 |
| imalinovskiy | amotoki: sure, will do | 14:15 |
| slaweq | imalinovskiy: thx a lot | 14:15 |
| slaweq | ok, so lets go to the next one now | 14:15 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1863113 | 14:16 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1863113 in neutron "[RFE] Introduce new testing framework for Neutron - OVN integration - a.k.a George" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Jakub Libosvar (libosvar) | 14:16 |
| jlibosva | o/ | 14:16 |
| slaweq | It's jlibosva's new friend: George :) | 14:16 |
| jlibosva | I don't know if I'm supposed to talk about it now | 14:17 |
| slaweq | IMO this seems reasonable and hopefully in the future it can replace fullstack framework as it should provide better isolation between fake "hosts" | 14:18 |
| jlibosva | so I wanted to discuss the plan, if it gets accepted, which jobs should it use | 14:18 |
| slaweq | so we wouldn't need dirty monkeypatching of some agents | 14:18 |
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| slaweq | is my understanding correct jlibosva? | 14:18 |
| jlibosva | slaweq: yes | 14:18 |
| jlibosva | we can discuss the roadmap on the LP, so far the code is a PoC with OVN | 14:19 |
| yamamoto | it reminded me zephyr, which was somehow rejected in favor of fullstack https://github.com/midonet/zephyr | 14:19 |
| jlibosva | but it should be quite easy to deploy with ml2/ovs, I think ralonsoh maybe even tried that | 14:19 |
| ralonsoh | succesfully | 14:19 |
| jlibosva | yamamoto: thanks for the link, I haven't heard about it | 14:20 |
| ralonsoh | IMO, the idea could be exported, in a future, to other backends | 14:20 |
| amotoki | is the fullstack testing for OVS mech driver and is the proposed one for OVN integration? | 14:20 |
| jlibosva | amotoki: essentially yes | 14:20 |
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| slaweq | yamamoto: I also didn't heard about it before | 14:20 |
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| slaweq | amotoki: fullstack isn't only for ml2/ovs | 14:21 |
| slaweq | it can also test linuxbridge backend | 14:21 |
| yamamoto | zephyr creates separate containers for neutron server, midonet agent, to simulate a multi node deployment | 14:22 |
| slaweq | and also there are some tests for L3/DHCP agents | 14:22 |
| amotoki | slaweq: yeah, i know it covers more than ovs and L3 stuffs. | 14:22 |
| amotoki | perhaps my word is not enough. OVN covers both L2 and L3, so the proposed one will cover them from POV of OVN integration. | 14:23 |
| amotoki | that's what I understand so far. | 14:23 |
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| jlibosva | amotoki: that's correct, it works with standalone Neutron using OVN backend and it tests data plane L2 and L3 on single node | 14:25 |
| slaweq | jlibosva: maybe You can investigate this zephyr solution and potentially reuse at least some pieces of it? | 14:25 |
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| jlibosva | slaweq: yeah, I'm reading the docs. | 14:26 |
| slaweq | and as I know current limitations of fullstack framework, I'm ok to approve this new RFE and give a chance to some new solution | 14:27 |
| mlavalle | why George? I mean, the name | 14:27 |
| slaweq | mlavalle: yeah, that's good question :) | 14:27 |
| jlibosva | mlavalle: heh, I needed to use some name and it was the first name that came in my head ... so I used it as a "placeholder" but then it became the real name | 14:27 |
| jlibosva | I may need to come up with some explanation of abbreviation | 14:27 |
| mlavalle | how about Jakub? | 14:27 |
| ralonsoh | hehehehe | 14:27 |
| jlibosva | that's already my name | 14:27 |
| jlibosva | :) | 14:28 |
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| amotoki | :) | 14:28 |
| slaweq | I'm not sure if we need more Jakubs in Neutron :P | 14:28 |
| slaweq | one should be enough | 14:28 |
| amotoki | if we have a contributor whose name is George, it would be super confusing :p | 14:29 |
| amotoki | * in future | 14:29 |
| jlibosva | "George tested it" would be ambiguous | 14:30 |
| slaweq | LOL | 14:30 |
| slaweq | but now seriously, can we vote to approve it or do You have any other questions? :) | 14:31 |
| ralonsoh | I tested this 2 weeks ago, +1 from me | 14:31 |
| amotoki | the proposal itself makes sense from POV that we need some framework for OVN integration. | 14:31 |
| njohnston | I have tested it as well, it worked well for me | 14:32 |
| slaweq | +1 from me to approve this and continue work with this | 14:32 |
| amotoki | as implementation, jlibosva can check zephyr too. | 14:32 |
| jlibosva | amotoki: I think it would make sense to replace current fullstack in the future. It's much faster to build the env with George | 14:33 |
| yamamoto | +1. we should have added this kind of stuff a few years ago. | 14:33 |
| jlibosva | and also for the record - the code already exists here as POC :) https://review.opendev.org/#/c/696926/ | 14:33 |
| amotoki | yeah, If the new framework turns out more generic in future and can cover more, we can go beyond the initial scope (OVN integration). | 14:33 |
| mlavalle | +1 | 14:33 |
| njohnston | +1 | 14:34 |
| slaweq | ok, so we approved it | 14:34 |
| amotoki | I'm fine to approve it | 14:34 |
| slaweq | I will comment on the RFE after the meeting | 14:34 |
| slaweq | thx | 14:34 |
| jlibosva | thanks :) | 14:34 |
| slaweq | thx jlibosva | 14:34 |
| slaweq | ok, next one than | 14:35 |
| slaweq | as we have stephen-ma here, lets discuss https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1861529 | 14:35 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1861529 in neutron "[RFE] A port's network should be changable" [Wishlist,New] | 14:35 |
| slaweq | my personal opinion about this is similar to what yamamoto and frickler said in the comments to the RFE | 14:36 |
| slaweq | I'm really not sure if we should change such basic logic of Neutron | 14:37 |
| stephen-ma | Can such a change be limited to only ML2? | 14:38 |
| ralonsoh | but how? | 14:39 |
| ralonsoh | if you change the network | 14:39 |
| ralonsoh | that means you also change the subnets and the pools | 14:39 |
| amotoki | I have similar feeling as you have. this RFE is talking about unaddressed ports. Even if we focus on L1(virtual port)/L2 stuff we still have not small number of topics around plug/unplug. | 14:39 |
| ralonsoh | it's not possible to isolate ML2 from L3-4 | 14:39 |
| slaweq | in theory it can be limited from API PoV as other plugins don't need to support API extension which provides that | 14:39 |
| stephen-ma | what is PoV? | 14:40 |
| ralonsoh | point of view | 14:40 |
| slaweq | ralonsoh: thx :) | 14:40 |
| yamamoto | it doesn't make things much easier as ml2 is _the_ core plugin nowadays | 14:41 |
| njohnston | Part of the problem here is the intricate dance of port assignment neutron does with nova | 14:43 |
| njohnston | what if the new network is one that would not be scheduled to the hypervisor that the VM is on? | 14:43 |
| njohnston | just as one possible wrinkle | 14:43 |
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| mlavalle | stephen-ma: what guest OS are we talking about? do you have PoC code? In other words, have you explored how difficult it is? | 14:44 |
| slaweq | what with e.g. linuxbridge backend - I think that bridg'e name to which port is plugged is based on network name and this name is also in libvirt's xml file, no? | 14:45 |
| stephen-ma | Yes https://review.opendev.org/#/c/704203/ , and https://review.opendev.org/#/c/704884/ | 14:45 |
| njohnston | I can't imagine this happening without an unplug and replug, almost like a shelve and unshelve | 14:46 |
| stephen-ma | I only have a 1-node devstack environment to test them. | 14:46 |
| mlavalle | mhhh, so is this something you are proposing just for you? | 14:47 |
| slaweq | stephen-ma: in PoC You have only some implementation for ovs-agent - but what about other drivers? | 14:47 |
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| slaweq | or how You want to provide on API level when this is possible (backend supports it) and when not | 14:48 |
| stephen-ma | that ia a good question. | 14:49 |
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| njohnston | Here's the key question for me: why wouldn't you just delete the old port and then create a new port on the new network, i.e. openstack port delete && openstack port create? What value is retained in keeping the same port? | 14:50 |
| stephen-ma | The request came from a customer. It doesn't want to do an online removal of a VM port followed by an online addition. | 14:50 |
| njohnston | Did they explain their reasoning? | 14:51 |
| mlavalle | in other words, let's try to understand the real use case | 14:51 |
| stephen-ma | The desire is to have an OS agnostic way of changing the network. | 14:51 |
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| njohnston | There is nothing OS-specific about "openstack port delete && openstack port create" | 14:52 |
| njohnston | Back when I did VMWare stuff, that was how we would do it there, and it worked for windows, linux, etc. VMs | 14:53 |
| slaweq | njohnston: I think that stephen-ma's point here is that in some cases guest OS may not notice hot plug of new port | 14:53 |
| stephen-ma | You mean "openstack server remove " and openstack server add | 14:53 |
| mlavalle | whats guest OS are we talking about? | 14:53 |
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| stephen-ma | Correct, a VM may be running an OS that was developed before PCI. | 14:54 |
| stephen-ma | like MS-DOS. | 14:54 |
| njohnston | stephen-ma: no, I mean "openstack port delete --oldportid; openstack port create --host instancename --network newnetwork" | 14:55 |
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| slaweq | do we really want to introduce a lot of code just to support some very old, legacy operating systems? | 14:56 |
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| slaweq | ok, we are almost on top of the hour and I have 2 proposals for that RFE: | 14:57 |
| slaweq | 1. we will continue discussion about that in review of spec where more details will be shared with us, | 14:58 |
| slaweq | 2. we don't accept this RFE | 14:58 |
| slaweq | or maybe You have some 3rd option? | 14:58 |
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| slaweq | personally I'm voting for option 2 | 14:59 |
| mlavalle | is that "a we don't accept this RFE for the time being, until we learn more details in the spec and make a final decision"? | 14:59 |
| njohnston | I would vote for 2 unless we have a very clear user story that means this will have a real benefit for today's cloud customer | 15:00 |
| slaweq | mlavalle: no, my option 2 was more like we simply don't accept this RFE | 15:00 |
| slaweq | mlavalle: the option 1 is more like what You described | 15:00 |
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| slaweq | ok, we are out of time already | 15:00 |
| mlavalle | I lean towrds 1 | 15:01 |
| slaweq | I will bring this back on next meeting to make some decision | 15:01 |
| mlavalle | FWIW | 15:01 |
| slaweq | let's think about it for few more days | 15:01 |
| slaweq | thx for attending the meeting | 15:01 |
| slaweq | o/ | 15:01 |
| slaweq | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Feb 21 15:01:28 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-02-21-14.00.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-02-21-14.00.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-02-21-14.00.log.html | 15:01 |
| mlavalle | stephen-ma: please bring as much detail as possible about the USE CASE | 15:01 |
| mlavalle | the WHY | 15:01 |
| slaweq | stephen-ma: yes, that can help :) | 15:01 |
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