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| rafaelweingartne | Hello guys, is this the channel where the Neutron_drivers_Meeting will take place? | 13:58 |
|---|---|---|
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| slaweq | #startmeeting neutron_drivers | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Jul 3 14:00:26 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is slaweq. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| slaweq | hi | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 14:00 |
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| slaweq | rafaelweingartne: hi, yes we now have neutron drivers meeting | 14:01 |
| rafaelweingartne | Awesome, thanks. | 14:01 |
| amotoki | hi | 14:01 |
| ralonsoh | hi | 14:01 |
| slaweq | but I'm not sure if we will have quorum today as many people in US have got holiday today | 14:01 |
| rafaelweingartne | I see | 14:01 |
| slaweq | I know that haleyb and mlavalle will not be here today | 14:01 |
| amotoki | sorry for missing the last two meetings. I was too sleepy and felt asleep..... | 14:02 |
| slaweq | amotoki: np | 14:02 |
| ralonsoh | neither njohnston I think... | 14:02 |
| slaweq | ahh, ok | 14:02 |
| slaweq | so lets wait few minutes for yamamoto | 14:02 |
| slaweq | if he will not show up, we will not have quorum | 14:02 |
| slaweq | btw. please welcome our new driver: ralonsoh :) | 14:03 |
| rafaelweingartne | I worked with Pedro, in the port-range extension for Neutron floating IPs, and I came here to see if you guys will have questions for us during the meeting | 14:03 |
| slaweq | welcome in the team | 14:03 |
| ralonsoh | thanks !! | 14:03 |
| amotoki | ralonsoh: welcome :) | 14:03 |
| ralonsoh | amotoki, thanks a lot | 14:03 |
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| slaweq | I think we will have yamamoto on the meeting :) | 14:08 |
| slaweq | he just joined channel | 14:08 |
| yamamoto | hi | 14:08 |
| slaweq | hi | 14:08 |
| slaweq | ok, so we have 4 of us which is quorum | 14:08 |
| slaweq | I think we can move on | 14:08 |
| slaweq | #topic RFEs | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RFEs (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:09 | |
| slaweq | we have 1 rfe for today | 14:09 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1885921 | 14:09 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1885921 in neutron "[RFE][floatingip port_forwarding] Add port ranges" [Wishlist,New] - Assigned to Pedro Henrique Pereira Martins (pedrohpmartins) | 14:09 |
| slaweq | and we have rafaelweingartne who is knows this rfe :) | 14:09 |
| rafaelweingartne | exactly, we implemented it internally on top of rocky, and now we would like to contribute back to the community | 14:10 |
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| slaweq | my question is: what is the real problem which You are trying to solve? is number of port forwarding entries now such big issue? | 14:11 |
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| rafaelweingartne | we would like to be able to create/use ranges | 14:12 |
| rafaelweingartne | for instance right now (without that PR), we are only able to create NAT mappings one by one | 14:12 |
| rafaelweingartne | however, that is cumbersome if we need to map ranges | 14:13 |
| rafaelweingartne | such as all ten ports from 80-90 from a public IP to an internal IP | 14:13 |
| rafaelweingartne | iptables already accepts ranges, and we would just expose such feature | 14:14 |
| rafaelweingartne | network operators are very used to this use case | 14:14 |
| amotoki | What is a real usecase of using a port range? | 14:14 |
| amotoki | I think it is not so common to use a consecutive range of listened ports. | 14:15 |
| amotoki | I might be missing something though | 14:15 |
| slaweq | amotoki: that is exactly what I think also | 14:15 |
| slaweq | that's why I asked about real problem here | 14:15 |
| rafaelweingartne | I am not a network guy myself, but for instance, we already have that in PROD, and there are people using | 14:16 |
| rafaelweingartne | externalizing ports by range | 14:16 |
| rafaelweingartne | the network engineers came with this requirement | 14:16 |
| rafaelweingartne | it seems that for some use cases they have, this facilitate things | 14:16 |
| rafaelweingartne | I do not see a problem to be flexible with that | 14:17 |
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| rafaelweingartne | for instance, for passive FTP | 14:19 |
| rafaelweingartne | we would normally use a port range | 14:19 |
| amotoki | we am not necessarily against the proposal. we can do it but we just would like to know real usecase where this is needed. | 14:19 |
| rafaelweingartne | 55536-55635, without that proposal, we would need to enter 100 API calls to open all of these ports | 14:19 |
| rafaelweingartne | Basically, all appliation that needs a range of ports to be open, we would need to open this range with one rule for each port, which is not ideal | 14:20 |
| ralonsoh | I would agree with this proposal if, in case of being approved, the port range could be defined in a flexible way | 14:22 |
| ralonsoh | for example, "10-23,31-50,100-120" | 14:22 |
| rafaelweingartne | I am not sure what you mean by flexible | 14:22 |
| rafaelweingartne | but that is exactly what we did | 14:22 |
| rafaelweingartne | an internal range, and an external range | 14:23 |
| ralonsoh | I only saw one interval in the examples | 14:23 |
| rafaelweingartne | and the ranges do not need to be the same | 14:23 |
| slaweq | ralonsoh: I'm not sure if that isn't too much | 14:23 |
| rafaelweingartne | they only need to match in size | 14:23 |
| ralonsoh | slaweq, but that's the case you were talking about | 14:23 |
| ralonsoh | the port ranges could not be sequential | 14:24 |
| ralonsoh | just my opinion | 14:24 |
| rafaelweingartne | what do you mean by that? | 14:24 |
| ralonsoh | nevermind | 14:24 |
| rafaelweingartne | I mean, we see a range as [x-y] | 14:24 |
| rafaelweingartne | where we take everything in between inclusing the X and Y | 14:25 |
| slaweq | what in case if e.g. user define first forwarding for range 10-20 and later he will want to remove port 15 from it and use in in different PF? | 14:26 |
| slaweq | with Your proposed change it will be more complicated to do than it is now | 14:27 |
| rafaelweingartne | not possible | 14:27 |
| rafaelweingartne | ah, yes, but what is the chance of that happening? | 14:27 |
| slaweq | idk | 14:27 |
| rafaelweingartne | applications normally have pre-defined ranges to work with | 14:28 |
| rafaelweingartne | and even if that happens, we implemented an update | 14:28 |
| slaweq | and also idk what is the chance that someone will need to define pf for range with e.g. 100 consequtive ports | 14:28 |
| rafaelweingartne | so update the first one to be 10-14, | 14:28 |
| rafaelweingartne | then you use the 15 to something else | 14:28 |
| rafaelweingartne | and then you can create a new one between 16-20 | 14:29 |
| amotoki | rafaelweingartne: but the current FIP port forwarding API allows PUT operation. | 14:29 |
| rafaelweingartne | for one-one | 14:29 |
| rafaelweingartne | the whole problem is only allowing users to create NAT rule with a single port | 14:29 |
| rafaelweingartne | if you look at other networking solutions, whenever they deal with NAT, they allow ranges | 14:30 |
| rafaelweingartne | I do not see any complications to add such feature | 14:30 |
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| rafaelweingartne | The key here is to allow | 14:31 |
| rafaelweingartne | not force users | 14:31 |
| rafaelweingartne | if they still want to use 1-1, that is still fine | 14:31 |
| rafaelweingartne | however, if the user wants to map a range to another range, why not allow such operation? | 14:31 |
| yamamoto | i used to have range configuration like that for one of my routers. i can understand it's sometimes useful. | 14:33 |
| rafaelweingartne | it is, our users already use in production | 14:33 |
| slaweq | I'm generally fine with this proposal, even if I personally don't have such usecases in mind but others may have :) | 14:34 |
| rafaelweingartne | I am a developer, and I see your point guys, I was also skeptical at the begining, but somehow the users do use it | 14:34 |
| slaweq | but as it require API and DB schema changes, I would like to have spec for that first | 14:34 |
| rafaelweingartne | you mean the pull request? | 14:35 |
| rafaelweingartne | or, do we need another spec just for the DB changes? | 14:35 |
| ralonsoh | no, for the whole feature | 14:35 |
| ralonsoh | explaining the DB changes, API extension, etc | 14:35 |
| ralonsoh | slaweq, pforwarding now admits to change the external and internal ports | 14:36 |
| rafaelweingartne | inst that what we have here https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1885921? | 14:36 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1885921 in neutron "[RFE][floatingip port_forwarding] Add port ranges" [Wishlist,New] - Assigned to Pedro Henrique Pereira Martins (pedrohpmartins) | 14:36 |
| rafaelweingartne | do we need to list something else? | 14:36 |
| slaweq | rafaelweingartne: You need to propose spec with details of the change to https://github.com/openstack/neutron-specs | 14:36 |
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| rafaelweingartne | hmm | 14:37 |
| slaweq | ralonsoh: yes but is that problem? | 14:37 |
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| amotoki | RFE mainly discusses the need for the feature, and more discussion on implementation around API/DB and so on happens in the spec. | 14:37 |
| rafaelweingartne | so besides that document we created in launch pad, we also need to write it down | 14:38 |
| rafaelweingartne | so, what do you need? API inputs/output, validations, new DB schema | 14:38 |
| amotoki | at least, in the RFE bug description, we have a room to discuss what the API and DB schema should be. | 14:38 |
| rafaelweingartne | something else? | 14:38 |
| slaweq | rafaelweingartne: maybe some testing plan for this new feature | 14:39 |
| rafaelweingartne | we covered the code with unit tests | 14:39 |
| amotoki | launchpad bug does not allows us to discuss line-by-line, so we would like to see a spec for detail. doesn't it make sense to you? | 14:39 |
| rafaelweingartne | I mean, all of the changes we did | 14:39 |
| rafaelweingartne | yes, it does | 14:39 |
| rafaelweingartne | do you need some other testing plan? besides unit testing everything? | 14:40 |
| slaweq | ok, so I'm personally ok to approve this rfe as an idea and continue discussion about api/db changes in the spec review | 14:40 |
| amotoki | I also dropped one small question in https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1885921/comments/2 | 14:40 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1885921 in neutron "[RFE][floatingip port_forwarding] Add port ranges" [Wishlist,New] - Assigned to Pedro Henrique Pereira Martins (pedrohpmartins) | 14:40 |
| slaweq | rafaelweingartne: would be good if You could propose some tempest API/scenario tests also | 14:40 |
| rafaelweingartne | ok | 14:40 |
| amotoki | I am not sure N-1 port mapping works | 14:40 |
| rafaelweingartne | we will do that then | 14:40 |
| amotoki | but this can be dsicussed in the spec if we approve it. | 14:41 |
| slaweq | N-1? | 14:41 |
| slaweq | I thought that we are talking about N-N mapping only | 14:42 |
| amotoki | the RFE description says "N(external port[s]) to 1 (internal port)" is allowed. | 14:42 |
| slaweq | where I missed this proposal of N-1? | 14:42 |
| amotoki | I don't understand how it works. | 14:42 |
| slaweq | amotoki: ahh, right | 14:42 |
| slaweq | I see it now | 14:42 |
| slaweq | in validations part | 14:42 |
| slaweq | rafaelweingartne: can You explain that? | 14:42 |
| rafaelweingartne | Yes | 14:43 |
| rafaelweingartne | so, we can have an application listening in a single port internally, but for some reason, the user/dev/operator wants to expose it via multiple external ports. This might happen for instance, when someone starts exporting something in a port e.g. 8080 | 14:44 |
| rafaelweingartne | and then we also want port 80 to expose the same application | 14:44 |
| rafaelweingartne | then we have multiple external ports that direct the traffic to the same internal application port | 14:45 |
| rafaelweingartne | it was used to maitain compatibility with some legacy system | 14:45 |
| amotoki | rafaelweingartne: how does it work when an internal port starts a connection? | 14:46 |
| rafaelweingartne | what do you mean? | 14:46 |
| amotoki | rafaelweingartne: from the nature of floating IP, both intrenal and external sides can start a connection. | 14:46 |
| rafaelweingartne | hmm | 14:47 |
| slaweq | amotoki: is it working like that now with PF 1:1? | 14:47 |
| amotoki | or is it okay to consider listened port case? | 14:47 |
| rafaelweingartne | ports do not actually start connection, but applications | 14:47 |
| slaweq | I'm not sure | 14:47 |
| amotoki | slaweq: I need to check more detail around iptables behavior | 14:48 |
| rafaelweingartne | all that the current NAT configurations do is to create iptables rules to forward packets | 14:48 |
| slaweq | amotoki: sure, but I think this can be discussed in the spec review | 14:48 |
| rafaelweingartne | the only thing that we are doing is just making it flexible that configurations, similarly to what iptable already allows you to do. | 14:48 |
| rafaelweingartne | also, they are forwarding incoming packets | 14:49 |
| rafaelweingartne | from what I remember they are not touching the outgoing packets | 14:49 |
| rafaelweingartne | unless, of course, the ACLs | 14:49 |
| rafaelweingartne | but that is something else | 14:49 |
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| rafaelweingartne | So, to sumarise, we will propose the spect at https://github.com/openstack/neutron-specs. The spec will have the context (problem description), the APIs, APIs' inputs and outputs, validations, new db schemas, and the tempest scenarios. | 14:51 |
| rafaelweingartne | Is that what you guys would like to see? | 14:51 |
| slaweq | rafaelweingartne: yes | 14:51 |
| rafaelweingartne | ok, we will do that then | 14:51 |
| slaweq | amotoki: yamamoto ralonsoh any thoughts? are You ok to approve rfe? | 14:51 |
| ralonsoh | ok to approve but I have concerns about it | 14:52 |
| ralonsoh | so we can discuss it in the spec | 14:52 |
| amotoki | I am okay to approve it (while I still don't know the real usecase but yamamoto says he has similar experiences) | 14:52 |
| slaweq | amotoki: yes, that is what convinced me too :) | 14:53 |
| yamamoto | range thing is fine. N-1 thing is concerning. | 14:53 |
| amotoki | I know the port forwarding API is mainly designed for listen ports, but if we add a forwarding rule for a higher port number theoretically it is possible for an internal side to start a connection with the port and we need to check what happens before allowing N-1 thing. | 14:53 |
| amotoki | (it can be discussed in the spec of course) | 14:54 |
| slaweq | ok, so lets approve rfe as on idea of extending PF API to allow ranges | 14:54 |
| slaweq | and lets discuss N-1 mapping in the spec | 14:54 |
| slaweq | if that don't make sense we may only go with N-N mapping finally | 14:55 |
| yamamoto | +1 | 14:55 |
| amotoki | sounds fine | 14:55 |
| ralonsoh | ok | 14:55 |
| slaweq | ok, thx | 14:55 |
| slaweq | so I will mark rfe as approved | 14:56 |
| slaweq | thx rafaelweingartne for proposing it and work working on that | 14:56 |
| slaweq | and that's all what I had for You today | 14:56 |
| yamamoto | amotoki: my usecase was with some weird application. i think it was a game. but i don't remember details. it's long ago. | 14:56 |
| amotoki | yamamoto: hehe | 14:56 |
| slaweq | thx for attending the meeting | 14:57 |
| slaweq | and have a great weekend | 14:57 |
| slaweq | o/ | 14:57 |
| rafaelweingartne | ok, thanks guys | 14:57 |
| ralonsoh | bye | 14:57 |
| slaweq | #endmeeting | 14:57 |
| yamamoto | good night | 14:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 14:57 | |
| amotoki | o/ | 14:57 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Jul 3 14:57:13 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-07-03-14.00.html | 14:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-07-03-14.00.txt | 14:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-07-03-14.00.log.html | 14:57 |
| rafaelweingartne | have a nice weeked too | 14:57 |
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