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| viveknarasimhan | HI | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| lajoskatona | Hi | 14:00 |
| viveknarasimhan | just testing :) | 14:00 |
| slaweq | #startmeeting neutron_drivers | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Apr 9 14:01:04 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is slaweq. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| slaweq | hi | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:01 | |
| mlavalle | o/ | 14:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 14:01 |
| amotoki | o/ | 14:01 |
| lajoskatona | o/ | 14:01 |
| haleyb | o/ | 14:01 |
| gibi | \o | 14:01 |
| ralonsoh | hi | 14:01 |
| viveknarasimhan | o/ | 14:02 |
| slaweq | we have quorum so I think we can start now | 14:02 |
| slaweq | #topic RFEs | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RFEs (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:02 | |
| slaweq | we have 2 rfe for today | 14:03 |
| slaweq | first one | 14:03 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1922237 | 14:03 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1922237 in neutron "[RFE][QoS] Add minimum guaranteed packet rate QoS rule" [Undecided,New] | 14:03 |
| gibi | yepp | 14:03 |
| gibi | that is on me | 14:03 |
| slaweq | and we have gibi to ask a questions :) | 14:03 |
| slaweq | welcome gibi | 14:03 |
| gibi | in short this is similar to what we already done with minimum bandwidth QoS rule | 14:03 |
| gibi | but now with minimum packet rate | 14:03 |
| gibi | the scope is | 14:04 |
| gibi | only the OVS agent reports packet rate inventory | 14:04 |
| gibi | (the rest of the backend can be considered later if needed) | 14:04 |
| gibi | only the scheduling time guarantees are in scope, data plane enforecement can be added later | 14:04 |
| gibi | after the packet rate limiter QoS policy is implemented (separate RFE from liu) | 14:05 |
| gibi | we need both Neutron and Nova impact | 14:05 |
| gibi | details are being worked on in two specs | 14:05 |
| gibi | https://review.opendev.org/q/topic:bp/qos-minimum-guaranteed-packet-rate | 14:05 |
| ralonsoh | just a couple of questions/requests: | 14:06 |
| gibi | as it stands today, I will drive the implementation of both the Neutron and the Nova impact with helps from lajoskatona | 14:06 |
| gibi | ralonsoh: sure | 14:06 |
| *** njohnston_ has joined #openstack-meeting | 14:07 | |
| ralonsoh | both APIs and DB changes (Liu's and yours) could be implemented at once | 14:07 |
| gibi | ralonsoh: do you suggest to have a single API extension for both? | 14:07 |
| ralonsoh | no but to submit the change at the same time | 14:08 |
| slaweq | I think we should have 2 api extensions, just to be consistent with other things | 14:08 |
| gibi | I agree on the separate extensions | 14:08 |
| lajoskatona | +1 | 14:08 |
| gibi | Nova will depend on only one of them | 14:08 |
| gibi | ralonsoh: I can try to sync with Liu about proposing the API impact around the same time | 14:08 |
| lajoskatona | Lius speaks of qos_pps_limiter while gibi qos_min_pps | 14:08 |
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| ralonsoh | and about the spec, I don't see clear the driver enforcement part | 14:09 |
| ralonsoh | lajoskatona, I know, this is what I said | 14:09 |
| lajoskatona | ralonsoh: ok | 14:09 |
| gibi | ralonsoh: right now the data plane enforcement of the min pps guarantee is out of scope | 14:09 |
| ralonsoh | ok, ok | 14:09 |
| gibi | that first need a pps limiter implementation from Liu | 14:09 |
| ralonsoh | perfect for me then, thanks! | 14:09 |
| gibi | cool | 14:10 |
| gibi | is there any other question? | 14:10 |
| amotoki | I understand it is not an easy thing to ensure min pps from POV of data plane. Ensuring min pps at the scheduling time sounds good. | 14:10 |
| amotoki | it is straight forward proposal and it sounds reaosnable to me | 14:11 |
| gibi | amotoki: yes, I agree | 14:11 |
| slaweq | one more question | 14:11 |
| gibi | (on the hardness of the data plane stuff) | 14:11 |
| slaweq | You said in the rfe that resource_request will have to be changed now | 14:11 |
| viveknarasimhan | +1 as dataplane enforcement can be taken up later | 14:11 |
| gibi | slaweq: yes, we need a deeper nested structure | 14:11 |
| slaweq | does it means that nova and neutron will need to be upgraded together? Or will it be somehow compatible to make it working with e.g. Neutron Xena and Nova Wallaby? | 14:12 |
| slaweq | or isn't such configuration supported at all? | 14:12 |
| gibi | slaweq: I can make Xena Nova work with both Xena Neutron or Wallaby Neutron by keeping the old resource_request parsing logic in Nova | 14:13 |
| gibi | and selecting the parse based on which Neutron API extension is enabled | 14:13 |
| gibi | s/parse/parser/ | 14:13 |
| gibi | I'm not sure if we really support mixing controller service versions | 14:14 |
| amotoki | slaweq: is it a common case where mixed versions of nova/neutron are run except during the upgrade? | 14:14 |
| slaweq | amotoki: I don't know, that's why I asked if we support that thing at all | 14:14 |
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| slaweq | maybe not and then there is no problem | 14:14 |
| slaweq | :) | 14:14 |
| ralonsoh | I don't this is supported, but server/agent version delta | 14:14 |
| slaweq | ok | 14:15 |
| slaweq | so that is good for me then :) | 14:15 |
| rubasov | late o/ | 14:15 |
| gibi | I have one more practical question | 14:15 |
| gibi | do you feel the need to have a short chat with the nova team around this feature during the PTG? | 14:15 |
| ralonsoh | sure | 14:15 |
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| gibi | OK, then I will talk to slaweq separately about a timeslot | 14:16 |
| slaweq | ++ | 14:16 |
| gibi | I don't think we need a whole hour for it | 14:16 |
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| mlavalle | I am good with this RFE | 14:16 |
| ralonsoh | +1 to the RFE | 14:16 |
| mlavalle | straightforward definition | 14:16 |
| amotoki | +1 | 14:16 |
| slaweq | +1 | 14:17 |
| mlavalle | +1 | 14:17 |
| haleyb | +1 | 14:17 |
| viveknarasimhan | +1 | 14:17 |
| slaweq | ok, I will mark this RFE as approved and will sync with gibi to schedule some time slot to discuss that during ptg too | 14:18 |
| slaweq | thx | 14:18 |
| gibi | thank you folks! | 14:18 |
| slaweq | second rfe | 14:18 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1921461 | 14:18 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1921461 in neutron "[RFE] Enhancement to Neutron BGPaaS to directly support Neutron Routers & bgp-peering from such routers over internal & external Neutron Networks" [Undecided,New] | 14:18 |
| viveknarasimhan | thanks for taking this up in PTG today | 14:19 |
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| viveknarasimhan | i can put a few words to describe what this RFE addresses, can i put in? | 14:19 |
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| slaweq | viveknarasimhan: sure | 14:20 |
| ralonsoh | please | 14:20 |
| viveknarasimhan | thanks slaweq | 14:20 |
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| viveknarasimhan | this RFE is raised to enhance our current Neutron BGPaas Service | 14:20 |
| viveknarasimhan | to enable it to support BGP-Peering over Internal-Neutron-Networks and External-Neutron-Networks | 14:20 |
| viveknarasimhan | the idea is to bring L3 connectivity to non-neutron service-addresses hosted inside VNFs for access by telco subscribers | 14:21 |
| viveknarasimhan | the VNFs provide several services to subscribers over dedicated service-addresses and enabling such service-addresses to be available on ISP-PE-Routers | 14:22 |
| viveknarasimhan | by enhancing BGPaaS to support peering to VNFs over Internal Networks | 14:22 |
| viveknarasimhan | & by enhancing BGPaas to support peering towards ISP-PE-Routers over External Networks | 14:22 |
| viveknarasimhan | The spec is here : https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/neutron-specs/+/783791/ | 14:23 |
| manubk39 | thanks Vivek for the details. there was a network flip. just joined again | 14:23 |
| viveknarasimhan | the RFE proposes 3 things: | 14:23 |
| viveknarasimhan | a. Provide direct association of routers to a bgpspeaker | 14:23 |
| viveknarasimhan | b. enable bgpspeakers to peer with VNFs over Neutron-Tenant-Networks | 14:24 |
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| viveknarasimhan | c. enable bgpspeakers to peer with ISP-PE-Routers over External-Neutron-Networks | 14:24 |
| mlavalle | big changes | 14:24 |
| slaweq | so IIUC You want to have bgpspeaker run inside router's namespace | 14:25 |
| viveknarasimhan | it is a fair proposal, but brings in capabilities into Openstack that make it much more relevant to Telco space | 14:25 |
| slaweq | and announce to the external routers IPs from the tenant network | 14:25 |
| slaweq | is that correct? | 14:25 |
| viveknarasimhan | slaweq: yes, once a bgpspeaker is associated to a router, the speaker will run inside the router-namespace | 14:25 |
| viveknarasimhan | and speaker will connect to external(aka ISP) and internal entities (VNFs) through the routers interface in the namespace | 14:26 |
| mlavalle | nothing wrong with a big change in principle | 14:26 |
| viveknarasimhan | yes the speaker will recieve external router IPs enabling reachability by VNF | 14:26 |
| amotoki | but from the perspective of routers outside of openstack (i.e. neutron), there is no need to run BGPspeaker in a router ns. why do you need to run a speaker in a router ns? | 14:27 |
| viveknarasimhan | and same way speaker will advertise internal-non-neutron-service-addresses to ISP router for enabling reachability of such addresses by Telco subscribers on ISP side | 14:27 |
| amotoki | I am not sure what VNF you mean. where is VNF run? | 14:27 |
| lajoskatona | I think we can translate VNF to an application inside the VM | 14:28 |
| amotoki | Is a VNF run on a VM on nova? | 14:28 |
| viveknarasimhan | amotoki: VNF is a VM, Virtual Network Function | 14:28 |
| viveknarasimhan | VNF is a VM fired by Nova | 14:28 |
| amotoki | okay | 14:28 |
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| viveknarasimhan | we use VNF as more common terminology in Telco domains rather than VMs | 14:28 |
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| viveknarasimhan | the router we are talking about is a Neutron Router which is also a Gateway Router | 14:29 |
| amotoki | I know what is VNF. I just would like to clarify it based on OpenStack terminology :) | 14:29 |
| viveknarasimhan | a Gateway Router for a DC today has capabilities like BGP, BFD, multiple external networks. Our RFE would enable a Neutron Router to become a Neutron Gateway Router | 14:29 |
| viveknarasimhan | when need be | 14:29 |
| slaweq | will Your proposal be compatible with what we have now? | 14:30 |
| slaweq | now there is one DrAgent on compute node IIRC | 14:30 |
| viveknarasimhan | For a bgpspeaker to peer with VNFs, it can access such VNFs through the neutron router | 14:30 |
| slaweq | and it is bgpspeaker | 14:30 |
| slaweq | correct? | 14:30 |
| viveknarasimhan | in our RFE , we won't be using the DrAgent | 14:30 |
| viveknarasimhan | the L3Agent will drive the functionality of a DrAgent as the BGPSpeaker is coupled with Router | 14:31 |
| amotoki | Is the API compatible with what we have now? | 14:31 |
| viveknarasimhan | the API we proposed is compatible with existing API | 14:31 |
| viveknarasimhan | we can associate a provider-network to a bgpspeaker today | 14:32 |
| viveknarasimhan | that will remain and work as is with DrAgent | 14:32 |
| manubk | yes and there will be new API which will be created for associating BGP speaker to router | 14:32 |
| viveknarasimhan | when the tenant associates neutron router to a bgpspeaker, the realization will happen through the L3Agent | 14:32 |
| mlavalle | will this replace neutron dynamic routing? | 14:32 |
| viveknarasimhan | BGPServicePlugin will work with L3Plugin to in turn drive the L3agent to manage BGPSpekaer | 14:32 |
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| viveknarasimhan | mlavelle: it is not replacing anything | 14:33 |
| viveknarasimhan | we are offering an enhanced BGPPlugin that can support network-association and router-association | 14:33 |
| viveknarasimhan | similar to how BGPVPN in Openstack provides today | 14:33 |
| viveknarasimhan | network-association will work through current path of ServicePlugin -> DrAgent -> Speaker | 14:33 |
| viveknarasimhan | router-association will work through enhancedBGPServicePlugin -> L3Plugin -> L3agent -> Speaker | 14:34 |
| amotoki | I think we need some new l3 agent ext in neutron-dynamic-routing too, right? | 14:34 |
| viveknarasimhan | amotoki: at this moment, we think neutron-dynamic-routing will have enhancement only on teh BGPplugin | 14:34 |
| viveknarasimhan | but, it will need to make calls to L3Plugin | 14:34 |
| viveknarasimhan | we won't bring l3agentext into neutron-dynamic-routing as we donot see that is necessary | 14:35 |
| slaweq | you mean to L3 service plugin? | 14:35 |
| viveknarasimhan | yes L3 service Plugin | 14:35 |
| viveknarasimhan | slaweq: we will retain L3ServicePlugin as the owner of Router, we just enhance the BGPServicePlugin to talk to L3Plugin to accomplish BGPspeaker managed | 14:35 |
| viveknarasimhan | in that namespace of the router-associated-to-bgp-speaker | 14:36 |
| mlavalle | my question was poorly phrased.... do you need to make changes to neutron dynamic routing or this is only on the Neutron side? I don't think this is clarified in the RFE | 14:36 |
| slaweq | I'm not sure if I understand all that concept, I though that it will require some enhancement on the agent's side | 14:36 |
| slaweq | not in the server/db side | 14:36 |
| viveknarasimhan | we have a prototype demo recording of how this works for the tenant, and we are willing to share the recording for upstream friends here | 14:36 |
| viveknarasimhan | the enhancmeent for us is in just 3 places: | 14:36 |
| viveknarasimhan | a. Enhanced BGPServicePlugin | 14:37 |
| viveknarasimhan | b. Enhanced L3 Plugin as it needs to pass the BGPSpeaker-associated-to-router towards the L3Agent | 14:37 |
| viveknarasimhan | c. Enhanced L3Agent that will note that the router is BGPaas-wrapped, and will manage a single BGPSpeaker for that router namespace | 14:38 |
| viveknarasimhan | We are supporting only one router-to-be-associated per BGPspeaker | 14:38 |
| amotoki | I have a concern on the approach regarding b and c | 14:38 |
| viveknarasimhan | which is unlike networks today where we allow tons of networks to be present on a bgpspeaker | 14:38 |
| amotoki | it will introduce BGP stuff in L3 plugin and L3 agent. | 14:38 |
| slaweq | amotoki: exactly | 14:38 |
| amotoki | theoretically it should be implemented as l3 agnet extension | 14:38 |
| viveknarasimhan | amotoki: Would it be better if BGPPlugin talks directly to L3Agent? | 14:38 |
| slaweq | for c) IMO it could be l3 agent extension, like we have for fip qos or port_forwardings now | 14:39 |
| viveknarasimhan | slaweq and amotoki: The implementaation we can work out, we request your feedback about our concept | 14:39 |
| lajoskatona | which will work only if ndr is enabled? | 14:39 |
| viveknarasimhan | please let us know twhat you think | 14:39 |
| ralonsoh | can you share the code? | 14:40 |
| slaweq | viveknarasimhan: I would like to see that demo if it would be fine for You | 14:40 |
| viveknarasimhan | we also want to put here that this is one of the most common use-case for 5G-service-capable-VNFs that we host for Telco providers | 14:40 |
| viveknarasimhan | slaweq: Wonderful, we can forward you the demo-recorded link | 14:40 |
| mlavalle | who is we? | 14:40 |
| slaweq | viveknarasimhan: can You put it in the comment to the LP RFE? | 14:41 |
| viveknarasimhan | mlavelle: that is great question. We here is manubk, myself and our other co-community colleagues Lajos & Bence | 14:41 |
| viveknarasimhan | slaweq: yes we will put the demo link in the LP RFE | 14:41 |
| lajoskatona | yes it is an Ericsson backed feature request | 14:41 |
| mlavalle | that helps | 14:42 |
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| viveknarasimhan | in the near future, most of 5G-capable-VNFs and CNFs will serve tons of addresses all of them brought through EBGP towards ISP | 14:42 |
| viveknarasimhan | enabling Telco subscribers to get high-end services exposed by VNFs | 14:42 |
| lajoskatona | I started to add lines of these things to the PTG etherpad, to have more feedback | 14:43 |
| mlavalle | that is interesting and exciting.... | 14:43 |
| viveknarasimhan | mlavelle , slaweq, amotoki: we request collaboration from community as the use-case is exciting and it brings a highly scalable bgpaas for use by lot of tenants and their VNFs | 14:43 |
| mlavalle | mlavalle not mlavelle | 14:44 |
| mlavalle | sorry, 3rd time | 14:44 |
| viveknarasimhan | sorry thanks | 14:44 |
| viveknarasimhan | mlavalle: Thanks for correcting | 14:45 |
| mlavalle | as I said, I find this interesting and exciting... | 14:45 |
| viveknarasimhan | thanks mlavalle | 14:45 |
| mlavalle | I am inclined to explore it further, especially from the perspective of this new %G uses cases | 14:45 |
| mlavalle | 5G^^^^ | 14:46 |
| slaweq | lajoskatona: You will add this topic to the PTG, correct? | 14:46 |
| viveknarasimhan | ralonsoh: we can share the prototype code | 14:46 |
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| ralonsoh | perfect, that will provide some answers to amotoki questions | 14:46 |
| lajoskatona | slaweq: yes, I started to list these with links, and manubr can add details where it can | 14:46 |
| lajoskatona | be | 14:46 |
| mlavalle | so it would be very helpful if we start working on a spec that helps us to envision these 5G use cases in more detail | 14:46 |
| viveknarasimhan | the demo recording link shows you how an ISP-hosted-user is able to access a VNF neutron primary IP that is backed by Neutron Gateway Router | 14:47 |
| mlavalle | and discuss them in the specing process | 14:47 |
| viveknarasimhan | simply through enhanced Neutron BGPaas | 14:47 |
| viveknarasimhan | please feel free to keeps questions posted in the RFE | 14:47 |
| slaweq | this indeed seems like very interesting idea for me | 14:47 |
| viveknarasimhan | mlavalle: as we speak here, we are expanding the spec to provide more context to enable better collaboration | 14:48 |
| mlavalle | I would be ok +1 the RFE with the understanding that we are going to have a written spec | 14:48 |
| slaweq | and I'm ok to approve that rfe as a concept, and later discuss details of the implementation in the spec and code review really | 14:48 |
| amotoki | it is an interestiing idea. in my understanding, the main heart of this proposal is to make a neutron router a BGP router which can talk with routers on both external/internal networks. | 14:48 |
| mlavalle | that we discuss and refine in gerrit | 14:48 |
| viveknarasimhan | amotoki: you caught this 100% right :) | 14:48 |
| amotoki | hopefully the spec can simplify what you would like to achieve. | 14:48 |
| viveknarasimhan | amotoki: yes, we will take your and community guidance on the same | 14:49 |
| amotoki | I am okay with this RFE and the spec would help us understand it more. | 14:49 |
| viveknarasimhan | amotoki: the last I have worked in Openstack neutron was for Distributed Router and now its full circle for us doing Centralized-BGP-enabled-Router :) | 14:50 |
| slaweq | ralonsoh: haleyb: any comments? seems like only You didn't vote yet :) | 14:50 |
| ralonsoh | +1 to the RFE and waiting for this spec | 14:50 |
| haleyb | no comments, +1 from me just haven't read it all yet | 14:51 |
| manubk | an initial spec is ready https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/neutron-specs/+/783791/11/specs/wallaby/bgpaas-enhancements.rst | 14:51 |
| slaweq | ok, so I will mark rfe as approved | 14:51 |
| slaweq | thx for the proposal viveknarasimhan and manubk | 14:51 |
| slaweq | please now work on the spec and then implementation of that feature | 14:51 |
| viveknarasimhan | slaweq: thanks to the community for giving us this opportunity | 14:52 |
| manubk | sure, thanks | 14:52 |
| slaweq | that's all what I have for today | 14:52 |
| slaweq | so I will give You few minutes back today | 14:52 |
| slaweq | thx a lot and have a great weekend | 14:52 |
| slaweq | o/ | 14:52 |
| ralonsoh | bye, have a nice weekend | 14:52 |
| slaweq | #endmeeting | 14:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 14:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Apr 9 14:52:45 2021 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2021/neutron_drivers.2021-04-09-14.01.html | 14:52 |
| lajoskatona | o/ | 14:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2021/neutron_drivers.2021-04-09-14.01.txt | 14:52 |
| mlavalle | viveknarasimhan, manubk: yeah, great proposal. Thanks | 14:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2021/neutron_drivers.2021-04-09-14.01.log.html | 14:52 |
| rubasov | o/ | 14:52 |
| amotoki | thanks all! | 14:52 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 14:53 |
| viveknarasimhan | thanks to mlavalle, amotoki, haleyb, lajos, ralonsoh , lajoskatona | 14:53 |
| gibi | \o | 14:53 |
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