Monday, 2017-02-27

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zioprotoHello ops12:02
zioprotoI am testing a migration Mitaka to Newton12:02
zioprotowhen I do the db migrations in nova12:02
zioprotoI get12:02
zioprotoerror: There are still 2 unmigrated records in the compute_nodes table. Migration cannot continue until all records have been migrated.12:03
zioprotofrom the release notes I dont see anything about this compute_nodes table12:03
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mrhillsmanhey zioproto13:39
mrhillsmani have not tried any mitaka to newton upgrades13:39
mrhillsmanbut maybe this will help - https://ask.openstack.org/en/question/101518/urgent-newton-nova-db-sync-not-migrating-compute_nodes-table/13:39
mrhillsmanthey suggest reading a few things before trying to run any further commands13:40
mrhillsmanpossibly related to cells being required newton+13:40
zioprotoyes I am already following that path13:41
zioprotolooks like there is a lot in stable/mitaka that was never tagged for release13:41
zioprotoI am asking on #openstack-nova to make a latest tag for stable/mitaka branch before going EOL13:42
mrhillsmanah ok13:42
yankcrimedrop table compute_nodes ? ;)13:43
zioprotoOH MY GOD13:48
zioprotocan anyone really confirm13:48
zioprotothat to run newton13:48
zioprotoI have to create yet another DB13:49
zioprotocalled cell0 ?13:49
yankcrimehaha13:49
zioprotois this really true ?13:49
yankcrimewe're a long ways of newton, i can't offer any insight unfortunately13:49
yankcrime🎻13:49
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mrhillsmanzioproto i cannot confirm you have to create another db13:54
mrhillsmanbut i know you have to have cells13:54
mrhillsmanunfortunately i like yankcrime have not upgraded13:54
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mrhillsmanat least not outside of openstack-ansible deployment tool13:54
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mrhillsman#startmeeting osops14:00
openstackMeeting started Mon Feb 27 14:00:02 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mrhillsman. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'osops'14:00
mrhillsman#topic Roll Call14:00
yankcrimeo/14:00
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mrhillsmanmorning everyone, osops meeting for those who are available :)14:00
mrhillsmanagenda is here #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osops-meeting14:01
mrhillsmananyone else here besides myself and yankcrime14:02
mrhillsmanfor the meeting that is :)14:02
robputtafternoon all14:03
robputt:-)14:03
yankcrimehi robputt !14:03
robputthey yankcrime, :-)14:03
mrhillsmanhey robputt14:04
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cemasoni'm here as well  :)14:04
mrhillsmancemason welcome!14:04
mrhillsman#topic State of the Repos14:04
mrhillsmanso as you can see on the agenda14:04
mrhillsmanthe repos can use some love i think14:05
mrhillsmanbut overall standardization14:05
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mrhillsmanunfortunately none of the folks from osic who have been working on this are in the meeting14:05
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mrhillsmanbut here is some idea14:06
mrhillsmanhttps://github.com/osic/ops-generic14:06
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mrhillsmansomething like, version the tool works with14:07
mrhillsmanknown issues14:07
mdormano/ sorry for late14:08
robputthaving all the tools in one repo kinda breaks alot of stuff14:08
robputtfor example, you can't do a tagged version release of a given tool14:08
yankcrimeare we talking about defining a new taxonomy and doing away with the existing one?14:08
mrhillsmannothing definitive14:08
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mrhillsmandefinitely doing something with the README14:08
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mrhillsmanbut that means each tool would have to be in a folder14:09
mrhillsmanif the current taxonomy works with some slight changes great14:09
mrhillsmanrobputt agreed, i think that repo is just an example of structure for a repo14:10
yankcrimei like the idea of 'contrib' but agreed wrt the proliferation of tools and versioning14:10
mrhillsmanwe can keep all the ones we have14:10
mrhillsmani like versioning as well14:10
robputtI have to be honest, I dislike the structure14:11
mrhillsmanany recommendations on how14:11
robputtthere are a number of problems with it, such as, you are unable to use ansible in it's intended form loading modules via ansible-galaxy14:11
robputtand if you want one tool you end up having this whole bloated repo14:11
robputtmy gut instinct tells me each tool should be its own repo14:12
mrhillsmanrobputt do you mind taking action to recommend new structure14:12
robputtwith a tagged version release which is compatible with each openstack release, but I also appreciate that means we end up managing alot of repos14:12
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robputtits hard to say mrhillsman, we are in danger of having lots of little repos14:13
yankcrimei think it might put people off contributing simple scripts as well14:13
robputtI can suggest a structure, but I think it would be unpopular as it would add additional management overhead14:13
robputtyep, it's getting the balance right, its a complex one14:13
yankcrimereally i think you'd want a couple of people to volunteer to curate something like robputt's suggesting14:13
* yankcrime nods14:13
robputtohhh for sure you'd need to have people actively act as owners of the repos14:14
robputtwe'd kind of have a "product owner" kind of head for each14:14
mrhillsmanwith them being little someone could "product own" more than one yes?14:14
robputtyeah of course14:14
mrhillsmanand with a standard would that make it easier to do so?14:15
robputtthere is a bit of me which says leave it as it is, and get the master branch to a point when it works for all scripts against the latest release14:15
robputtand tag that as a "Works with Newton" release14:15
yankcrimethat sounds like a pragmatic way forward14:15
mrhillsman+114:15
robputtbut it means we need to get all scripts in the repo in a known working state for a given openstack release14:16
mrhillsmanwe can work on that in osic14:16
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mrhillsmanso all agreed on that?14:16
robputtwe can then backport it to previous versions in a branch for each Openstack version14:16
robputtyep I would agree14:16
robputtI think the overhead of having a repo for each script is too much14:17
robputtbut versioned releases some how for the repos are pretty damn important I think14:17
mrhillsmancool14:17
mrhillsmanwe can discuss further definitely14:17
mrhillsmani think getting it to works with x is a good first14:17
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* yankcrime nods14:18
mrhillsmancool, moving on14:18
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mrhillsman#agreed get all tools to works with X status14:18
mdorman+114:18
mrhillsman#topic Wiki Cleanup14:18
mrhillsmani want to discuss this with uc as it relates to the purpose of osops beyond the repos14:19
mrhillsmanand i think after such a discussion we can clean some of the stuff up on the wiki14:19
mrhillsmanjust seems like stuff is everywhere14:20
yankcrimewhat's the general UC steer on this stuff?14:20
yankcrimeor is that what you want to prompt?14:20
mrhillsmanthat is what i want to prompt14:20
yankcrimerighto14:20
mrhillsmani have an idea but could be totally off14:21
mrhillsmanwondering if anyone here has reviewed it and has any thoughts14:21
mrhillsmanor even tried to use it hehe14:21
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robputtno real thoughts14:21
mrhillsmanlooks to need some tlc in general14:22
robputtIt would be nice to flesh it out with some product catalogue kind of style thing14:22
mrhillsmanhmmm...interesting14:22
robputtfor a new visitor "A repo of curated tools and scripts." doesn't really mean much when he is looking for some specific script14:22
mrhillsmannoting that14:22
mrhillsmanagreed14:22
yankcrimeyeah, good idea14:22
robputtif we could list all of our scripts, which repo they live in, a status for the last few openstack releases of known compatability and maybe a roadmap for additions / improvements14:23
mrhillsmanand actually, that could help with not having to have complex repo setup14:23
mrhillsmancould standardize around the 'product catalogue'?14:24
mrhillsmangood stuff robputt14:24
mrhillsmanok, anything else here?14:25
nishpatwa007robputt I would like to add14:25
nishpatwa007So https://github.com/osic/ops-generic is a more structured implementation of the some of the functionalities of ops tools contrib with reusable common libraries14:26
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robputtI see...14:27
mrhillsmani'm going to go on to the next topic everyone unless we need to spend more time here14:27
nishpatwa007in that way its easier to add more scripts14:27
robputtthat makes me think of something else for either the wiki / github repos actually...14:27
robputteach script could do with usage instructions / sample configs14:28
mdormanor at least it’s supposed to be.  in theory things from the contrib repo are supposed to be “promoted” up to the generic repo.   but in practice i don’t think taht is happening much14:28
nishpatwa007Yes each tool has a readme for the usage and the requirements14:28
nishpatwa007so each directory is an autonomous entity14:28
robputtyep, we need to add that because at the moment stuff like orphaned floating ip tool has no requirements.txt or a readme14:29
robputtso for a new comer it maybe be a bit of a struggle to work out how to use it14:29
robputtanyway I agree next topic, we are rabbit holing around what standards a tool needs to be included in generic rather than contrib14:29
mrhillsmanok cool14:29
mrhillsmanwe can discuss further of course later14:30
nishpatwa007cool14:30
mrhillsman#topic Feedback Loop14:30
mrhillsman#link https://github.com/openstack/openstack-user-stories14:30
mrhillsmanso we have these user stories14:30
mrhillsmanwe definitely cannot "force" work i would say but more so influence it14:31
mrhillsmanthe product team however would like operators to review the user stories14:31
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mrhillsmanand from a technical/operator/end-user/etc standpoint ensure they make sense14:31
mrhillsmanthese would basically bubble up to the UC who then advocate for the work14:32
mrhillsmanhaving operators review the user-story i believe the idea is it adds more value14:32
mdorman+1 we should be helping review that stuff, and this is a place where we can influence new features on the front-end14:33
mrhillsmanyep14:33
mrhillsmani will send an email to the ML at large14:33
mrhillsmanbut wanted to get any feedback from you fine folks14:33
mrhillsman#action mrhillsman email Ops ML regarding PWG user story reviews14:34
robputtno real opinion on this, user stories should come from all of the places in my opinion14:34
robputt:-)14:34
mrhillsmanagreed14:34
yankcrimeops are users too! ;)14:34
mrhillsmanlol, yes, yes we are14:34
mrhillsmanok cool, on to the next one14:35
mrhillsman#topic Documentation14:35
mrhillsmanso, i think some folks have a misunderstanding around this14:35
mrhillsmanor maybe it has not been clear14:36
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mrhillsmanops folks are not asking to be taxed with doing the actual docs work14:36
mrhillsmanbut rather review and feedback, filing bugs, etc14:36
robputtI personally think the ops based documentation for Openstack could be improved across the board.14:36
mrhillsmanasettle am i wrong?14:37
asettleHey!14:37
robputtthere are lots of small bits that need tweaking to make stuff work as expected for new / inexperienced operators14:37
mrhillsmandocs folks are in agreement robputt afaik14:37
asettleSo, it's a 50/50, you're not wrong ;) but operators *do* have specialty knowledge that devs and tech writers just do not have.14:37
asettleWe do request/expect those gaps are often filled.14:37
asettleWhether that be by bug reporting (letting us konw a change, an error, etc) or actually patching it up yourself.14:37
robputtI am happy to submit patches14:37
asettlerobputt: that's the spirit ;)14:38
mrhillsman+114:38
mrhillsmansame here14:38
robputtbut I have no clue about how the docs repos / workflow works14:38
asettleIf I can help, I will. I'm Alex o/ for those who haven't met me.14:38
asettleI'm the docs PTL14:38
robputtis it largely the same as any other OS project?14:38
asettlerobputt: exactly the same as dev. If you need help with it though, let me help you work it through14:38
asettleNo changes robputt :)14:38
mrhillsmanit is the same as any other ^14:38
robputtcool :-)14:38
asettlehttps://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals14:38
asettleWe like to ensure there's minimal difference.14:38
robputtwell in this case I have some changes for the Newton Debian 8 manual which I picked up the other day when deploying some stuff14:38
robputt:-)14:38
mrhillsmanhehe14:39
asettlerobputt: the install guide?14:39
robputtyep14:39
asettleSo, we just lost our Debian guy. So, please, patch away by all means.14:39
mrhillsmanthere's some issues around debian i read14:39
asettleDebian is no longer, in summary.14:39
mrhillsmanthe packaging guy is gone or something14:39
asettleWe had one guy who was helping the team to package and manage the guides is gone.14:39
robputtdamn14:39
mrhillsmanyeah, hopefully it will get worked out14:39
asettleThe docs team already managers 3 distributions (well, 5) so keeping on debconf and debian was a hard slog.14:39
mrhillsmanthere is a long thread about it14:40
asettleSo, we've had to drop it until another package manager comes our way.14:40
robputtI can't promise packages, I hate packaging Python stuff inside of anything over the PyPi, but the docs I can submit updates for sure14:40
asettlerobputt: love your stuff :) it's not up in Ocata :( But Newton would love some attention if you have the time.14:40
asettleI'm actually in the process of looking at the ops-guide we have up and will be owrking with our team leads to improve it and the admin guide14:40
asettlehttps://docs.openstack.org/ops-guide/operations.html14:40
asettlehttps://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide/14:41
asettleIf anyone's interested in helping out these guys with me, please let me know :)14:41
mrhillsmanawesome, i'm going to go to the next topic because of timing14:42
asettlePlease do :)14:42
mrhillsmanthanks asettle ;)14:42
robputtnp, asettle i'll poke you later about docs stuff I have a few more queries14:42
mrhillsmangoing to skip over ancillary tooling if no one objects14:42
asettlerobputt: jump on over to our chan if you have any questions :) #openstack-doc14:42
mrhillsmanand osic like environments14:43
robputtwell14:43
mrhillsman#topic Underutilized Projects14:43
robputthang on14:43
mrhillsmanok, going back14:43
mrhillsmanto which one?14:43
robputtlets chat about osic like envs quickly14:43
robputt:P14:43
mrhillsman#topic OSIC-like Environments14:44
robputtso I currently have "RobCloud" my personal Openstack playground14:44
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robputtwhich massively sucks but I try stuff out in there which I want in a vanilla openstack deployment14:44
robputtSo, what opportunity is there for us getting access to OSIC like envs for testing out stuff14:45
robputtin particular emerging Openstack projects?14:45
mrhillsmananyone can request resources from osic14:45
mrhillsmanand for emerging projects even the more14:45
robputtok... but what about if we want to have control plane access?14:45
robputtor are we expected to build a cloud ontop of the cloud for testing?14:45
mrhillsmanyou get baremetal nodes14:46
robputtohhh ok cool :-)14:46
mrhillsmanand can do what your heart desires with tnem :)14:46
robputttbh its probably the same overhead as what I have now then for trying stuff out if you get bare metal14:46
mrhillsmanbeyond that though, there are other options as well and i was hoping to discuss14:46
robputtso these bare metal nodes, are they Ironic driven?14:47
mrhillsmanso you want openstack already live14:47
mrhillsmanthey are ironic driven more than likely by now or definitely will be14:47
robputtok14:47
robputt:-)14:47
mrhillsmanthere is work to move all of the nodes under ironic14:47
mrhillsmansome are, some are not unfortunately14:47
robputtlet me take this offline mrhillsman14:47
mrhillsmanok14:47
mrhillsmanthere is also cloud native foundation and few other such osic-like environments14:48
robputtbut I would like to make use of OSIC for my Openstack adventures rather than my current setup as its a bit crummy ;-)14:48
mrhillsmani was wondering if anyone knows of any, has any, is planning on having any, etc14:48
mrhillsmani have a contact at AT&T who mentioned having something like osic there14:49
mrhillsmanbut not sure what that means14:49
mrhillsmanso i will go on to the next14:49
mrhillsmantime running out hehe14:49
mrhillsman#topic Underutilized Projects14:49
robputtYep, we need to get in here :-)14:49
robputtbig time14:49
mrhillsman#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-adopt-a-project-pike14:50
mrhillsmanso beyond the general issue of projects not having enough feedback and new ones needing more than those that have been around14:50
robputtits not so much feedback14:50
mrhillsmanwe started an effort in osic to help those that folks want to use14:50
mrhillsmanbut just need that little extra push14:50
robputtI would like us to get very early involvement so we can shape a product around operational acceptance from day one.14:51
mrhillsmanand i think the thought is good across the board14:51
mrhillsmanhow can we get that to work14:51
mrhillsmani assume we need test environments14:51
mrhillsmantying into the osic-like topic14:52
mrhillsmanthough they do not have to be large14:52
mrhillsmanbut devstack would not be sufficient14:52
mrhillsmanfrom an operational standpoint14:52
klindgrenSo we tried ironic.  But honestly the "friction" between the ironic team and the nova team and the pace of getting something out there that was not crazy pants - was untenable.14:52
robputtIt doesn't need to be a large deployment, but silly stuff like14:52
robputt"how does it scale"14:52
robputtis often not even covered in new projects at all14:53
mrhillsmanklindgren i'd like to hear more14:54
klindgrenSomething as simple as configuring a raid array for r10 or r5 or r1 & 5.  The answer was "use seperate pools for each raid array.14:54
klindgrenWhich means that I need to have 3 different config/pools of hardware for 1 piece of hardware14:54
klindgrenfor requests to be pulled from.  Ironic was build some placement api thing, for NOVa , but that took like 2 cycles - not even sure where it is in ocata14:55
mrhillsmanwould like to hear more offline klindgren as it could be an issue going forward in general14:56
klindgrenIts also super easy to get an ironic node stuck14:56
mrhillsmanand probably something that needs to pushed up for discussion14:56
klindgrenreboot it while deploying an image to it - it will bascially never come back14:56
mrhillsmanso we have not so new projects and very new projects14:56
klindgrenmust go to the db to clear the state, and remove the vm from nova14:56
yankcrimeearly ops engagement for new and emerging projects would be a great idea imo14:57
robputtwe have a whole load of ugly around our ironic deployment :-(14:57
mrhillsmani'd like to hear more about how that looks like14:57
robputtwell, just for example14:57
robputtif we look at Picasso14:57
mrhillsmannew and emerging14:57
robputtwhich is an uber new project14:58
robputtand a pretty important one in my opinion, but maybe thats just my love for FaaS14:58
mrhillsman#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Picasso14:58
robputtit currently for me isn't really heading in the direction of operational acceptance in my opinion...14:58
klindgrenSome of the variables are one-sizes fits all (like the stty number to use for serial console on serial over lan) - but all hardware is snowflakes.  So I actually have 2 peices of hardware that need different stty numbers.  No way to handle that in ironic.14:58
robputtFor example, it is not configurable like a standard Openstack service, it doesn't use Oslo libs for stuff like DB / Messaging14:59
mrhillsmani'm going to have to kill our meeting at 9 but feel free to keep going14:59
mrhillsmani will capture things for next meeting14:59
robputtit doesn't have a pluggable backend for using with multiple function runners etc...14:59
robputtto me, as an operator I expect things to use the standard libs14:59
robputtand to behave in an Openstacky kind of way14:59
mrhillsmanand we have to have buy-in from those projects no doubt14:59
robputtonce you have configured 1 OS project you should be able to configure them all14:59
yankcrimeso really our engagement should be at the blueprint stage15:00
robputtyes totally15:00
mrhillsman#endmeeting15:00
robputtif we see a super mega early code commit using some nonsense with PyMySQL15:00
openstackMeeting ended Mon Feb 27 15:00:20 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/osops/2017/osops.2017-02-27-14.00.html15:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/osops/2017/osops.2017-02-27-14.00.txt15:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/osops/2017/osops.2017-02-27-14.00.log.html15:00
yankcrimeor there should be something in the template that defines some semblance of production / operational acceptance, even if it's just anticipatory15:00
robputtand not using Oslo.DB we should totally scream about it15:00
robputtafter all, ops don't want to be tied to one DB technology etc...15:00
yankcrimeyeah15:00
mrhillsman+115:00
robputtalso other stuff, like for example15:01
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robputtPicasso is driven buy the iron.io guys, but it has no pluggable backend, which means I can't use it with Fission, or Kubernetes etc...15:01
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robputtWe need to push the no vendor tie in thing on all Openstack projects15:01
mrhillsmanor i think in general they will die or be very limited in adoption15:02
robputtfor me keeping a keen eye on these early stage projects would be really beneficial for their growth and integration into the ecosystem15:02
yankcrimetheir success absolutely depends on it tbh15:02
mrhillsmanyankcrime you brought up an interesting thing there15:02
mrhillsmanpardon my ignorance15:02
mrhillsmanbut the guide for starting a project15:03
robputtyep15:03
mrhillsmanit does not take into consideration operational/production acceptance criteria?15:03
yankcrimeif they're polarising operators by poor technology choices early on then it'll definitely stymie adoption15:03
robputtyep for sure15:03
robputtthere is one reason why I don't run Picasso today as our internal Function as a Service API15:04
robputtand thats lack of pluggable backend15:04
robputtIron.IO doesn't suit our usecase at all15:04
robputtI would throw our internal FaaS out tommorow if Picasso had a pluggable backend and I could write a Fission driver for it15:04
robputtohhh and make it play nice with our ancient internal keystone :-D15:05
mrhillsmani just want to thank everyone for participating15:05
mrhillsmani had too much stuff on the agenda i see lol15:05
yankcrimei've got to run to another meeting, this seems like a good start to the reboot though - cheers all!15:06
mrhillsmanagreed15:06
robputtsee you next time15:06
mrhillsmanhave a great one15:06
robputtmrhillsman: get another etherpad up15:06
mrhillsmani'll send out summary15:06
robputtso we can start throwing stuff in there for next time15:06
robputt:-)15:06
mrhillsmanwill do :)15:06
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shewlessHello. If I create a subnet and enable dhcp but don't specify a nameserver my instances have an IP in /etc/resolv.conf that is on the same subnet.  Is this the behaviour of "local dnsmasque"16:13
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klindgrenI tought dhcp overwrote /etc/resolv.conf?17:48
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mrhillsmanit does/supposed to18:56
mrhillsmanbut if you do not set a nameserver it uses 127.0.0.118:56
mrhillsmanat least that is what i read18:57
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shewlessI'm finding that my openstack will setup a "local nameserver" by default.  I added my real dns to the dns forwarder endtry in the dhcp_agent.ini and things are working as I expect!20:07
shewlessAnother question. How easy is it to modify the region name on an existing setup? select * from region; shows the "id" as the actual region name.. which makes me think I'd have to change all my endpoints and maybe more?20:08
shewlessor would I just need to update the endpoints?20:08
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mrhillsmaneset22:02
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