| thingee | ttx: what's the current progress of the constellations effort? Was just noticing it in the tc activity email. | 00:05 |
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| ttx | thingee: at the PTG mtreinish volunteered to work on a basic compute one as a prototype. We also have a brainstorm session at the Forum | 07:22 |
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| cdent | it’s tc office hours, paging any tc-members and any one else | 09:01 |
| ttx | yay | 09:01 |
| ttx | updating Tracker now | 09:02 |
| cdent | I’ve had a few people, when approached about their thoughts about the pending elections, express that they don’t think the TC does anything useful | 09:03 |
| cdent | this is concerning | 09:03 |
| ttx | is it more of a "open source projects don't need governance" stance, or a "openstack does not need any central governance", or a "this TC is not working on stuff that matters" ? | 09:04 |
| ttx | I suspect the 2nd | 09:04 |
| cdent | The impression I’m getting is the 3rd | 09:05 |
| ttx | Do they have suggestions on what the TC /should/ be working on ? | 09:05 |
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| ttx | (interesting, since teh vibe I get is more people not understanding what governance adds, and therefore asking for less TC, not more TC) | 09:06 |
| ttx | (you seem to point at people wanting more TC, which is rather new) | 09:06 |
| ttx | (although I suspect it's both) | 09:07 |
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| cdent | There probably is both, but I’ve certainly been aware of “more TC”, in part because I’ve been vaguely in that camp since my early days | 09:07 |
| cdent | such as the people who want more “Technical” | 09:08 |
| ttx | Usually when I ask what we should be working on, I get weird expectations that the TC are super-humans than can "fix" openstack all by themselves | 09:08 |
| cdent | I think that probably points at some of the concerns and confusion. People asking: If the TC can’t fix openstack, then what’s it for? | 09:09 |
| ttx | governance. but yes, I see where that is coming from | 09:09 |
| ttx | what good is governance is it doesn't fix my problems | 09:10 |
| ttx | if* | 09:10 |
| cdent | Yeah, something like that. | 09:10 |
| ttx | It's more of a general problem with governance, than an openstack-specific issue. Doesn't mean we should not work to address it. Ideally, the limited impact that we can have /should/ solve problems | 09:11 |
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| amrith | g'morning folks | 09:13 |
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| cdent | I realized an interesting thing yesterday: it is difficult for me to simultaneously move forward my agenda with the TC while also moving forward my agenda with Nova. This is largely because karma is _such_ a big deal in Nova and much of what I would want to accomplish in the TC is change Nova. | 09:13 |
| cdent | morning amrith | 09:14 |
| amrith | g'morning cdent, reading interesting conversation you are having with ttx. | 09:14 |
| amrith | g'morning ttx | 09:14 |
| ttx | Practical example. People see that our stable support periods are not aligned with reality of openstack usage in the world. They expect the TC to fix that. Reality is, declaring tata we support branches for 2 years won't magically make them work. People working on infra qa will make that happen | 09:14 |
| ttx | amrith: ohai | 09:14 |
| ttx | s/tata/that | 09:14 |
| ttx | so there is only so much you can influence from the governance body in an open source project | 09:15 |
| cdent | In that particular case, ttx, I think people hope to think of the TC as representatives to the people and places that can address that issue | 09:15 |
| cdent | I’m not saying that’s realistic, but I do think people hope for it. | 09:15 |
| ttx | We can plant sticks in the ground, like communicate that we need more infra sysadmins (done) | 09:16 |
| ttx | but just saying that's the way it will be won't make anything happen | 09:16 |
| ttx | I'm not trying to minimize the issue -- it's a real one. I just wish people with that kind of feelings to express what they would expect teh TC to do | 09:17 |
| cdent | you have any thoughts on this stuff amrith (since you’re a) here, b) a regular)? | 09:18 |
| ttx | Or if it's just general frustration that bubbles to the top | 09:18 |
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| amrith | ttx has long said (and I agree) that there is a contradiction in what people say about the TC. In the same breath, they say they want more 'technical leadership' but when the TC makes a technical decision, they say that they don't want the TC to make technical decisions (ostensibly because they didn't like the decision). It is a tough balance for sure. But, one of the important things in leadership is making the environment | 09:19 |
| amrith | where others can converse. So, maybe something that the TC can highlight is that it makes this venue where the important conversations are had; and maybe there is some structure that can be put around this. Such as, the conversation re: maintenance releases. If there is clear linkage between a conversation that occurs re: this subject and thing(s) that the TC did to get the conversation to happen and for the right things to | 09:19 |
| amrith | happen as a result, maybe that will be value that people can then perceive? Just a thought (pre-coffee) | 09:19 |
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| cdent | yes, that’s all good stuff | 09:23 |
| ttx | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Technical_Committee_Tracker updated | 09:23 |
| cdent | I’ll have to think on this harder (if I ever get a free bit of headspace) because I feel like we’re missing some ingredient. | 09:23 |
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| ttx | https://ttx.re/role-of-the-tc.html <-- probably still relevant | 09:24 |
| ttx | heh, one year old today | 09:24 |
| cdent | timing is everything | 09:24 |
| cdent | I remember the first time I read that my reaction was “okay, that may describe things as they are, but does it describe things as they should be?” | 09:25 |
| amrith | ttx, the upcoming elections may give people an opportunity to share some of their thoughts on what they think the TC should be. I intend to ... | 09:25 |
| cdent | or “if that’s how things are and will be, are we missing some _other_ committee” | 09:26 |
| cdent | amrith++ | 09:26 |
| ttx | amrith: it usually does | 09:27 |
| ttx | (give that opportunity) | 09:27 |
| cdent | The reason people look to the TC instead of things like the arch work group (rip) is because there is perceived/implied (even if not real) power with the TC | 09:27 |
| ttx | "I wish the TC would do that" | 09:27 |
| ttx | "If elected, I intend to work on that" | 09:27 |
| ttx | cdent: also a bit of "if the TC can't fix it, then who can" | 09:28 |
| * cdent nods | 09:28 | |
| ttx | the answer usually is "a group of people working on it" | 09:28 |
| ttx | IF the actions of this group breaks things for others and there needs to be arbitration, then teh TC can step in and say " yes, group B is right" | 09:30 |
| ttx | ni practice there is extremely rarely that sort of need | 09:30 |
| ttx | in* | 09:30 |
| ttx | again, that does not mean we could not do more (or other things), which is why I'm interested in specific examples | 09:31 |
| ttx | There are a number of things that only the TC can do | 09:31 |
| cdent | I think some of the frustration and smcginnis, johnthetubaguy and I were expressing about “traction on strategic issues” is around the notion of “a group of people working on it” being black magic | 09:31 |
| ttx | but most things should not be done at the TC level | 09:32 |
| cdent | well, for sake of argument: why not? | 09:32 |
| ttx | because limiting the group of people working on something to an set of elected people is limiting | 09:33 |
| ttx | the TC can spawn workgroups with TC members, but those should be open to anyone | 09:33 |
| ttx | hence the tries with Arch WG and SWG | 09:33 |
| ttx | but that did not attract that many people | 09:34 |
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| cdent | I think a lot of people could hear “should not be done at the TC level” as “will neither be done at nor initiated at” | 09:35 |
| cdent | and then think “so what does the TC do, then?” | 09:36 |
| ttx | so there is a dichotomy between "the TC" as a body and the TC members as individuals | 09:36 |
| ttx | I prefer the TC (as a body) to say that (say) simplification is important, spawn a workgroup to work on it, seed it with some motivated TC members, but ask for more interested people to join | 09:37 |
| ttx | If "the TC" directly tackles simplification, that means everybody else considers it to be the problem of that group of 13 people | 09:38 |
| cdent | that’s a good point but points to another issue that is wrapped in this many-layered topic: | 09:39 |
| ttx | because in the end, it's the "group of people working on it" that will do the work | 09:39 |
| cdent | it is often the case that only by virtue of being elected to the TC does someone get the license to engage with “additional work" | 09:39 |
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| cdent | or to put it another way: how do we solve that age old problem of the tragedy of the commons? | 09:40 |
| ttx | sometimes the overlap between people able to work on something and the TC is near-perfect (like, say, working on a TC vision) but that is more the exception than the rule | 09:40 |
| cdent | (and after that perpetual motion, as that’s just as likely) | 09:40 |
| ttx | cdent: that's an interesting thought | 09:40 |
| amrith | cdent, pl explain what you mean by 'only by virtue ...'. what prevents a non elected person from volunteering a small amount of time? | 09:41 |
| ttx | amrith: well, you can only justify working on "something" if your employer gets the side-benefit of having a TC member on staff | 09:41 |
| cdent | amrith: simply not having the time available, at least not in any balanced sense | 09:41 |
| ttx | i.e. if you're elected to the TC you can work on anything | 09:42 |
| amrith | ttx, if that is the case (and a recognition is the issue) let's create a class of recognition | 09:42 |
| ttx | If that's the case we need to create artificial layers of recognition | 09:42 |
| amrith | member of subcommittee | 09:42 |
| cdent | we don’t want to encourage the common opensource trope where people are expected to work extra | 09:42 |
| amrith | not artificial, real | 09:42 |
| ttx | yes, what amrith said | 09:42 |
| amrith | working on SWG was 'real' recognition (and a lot of fun) | 09:43 |
| cdent | I agree additional recognition would be useful | 09:43 |
| amrith | working (albeit not a lot) on oslo was also recognition that I could show in stackalytics though. | 09:43 |
| cdent | but it’s a hard road for some people | 09:43 |
| ttx | amrith: so, both the ArchWG and the SWG died due to their main leader moving on | 09:43 |
| ttx | That is the trick with such groups | 09:44 |
| cdent | arch wg didn’t die because of leader moving on, it was already dead | 09:44 |
| ttx | You need someone actively pushing members into delivering something | 09:44 |
| ttx | (the TC is not different, the chair spends a lot of time getting things through the door) | 09:44 |
| amrith | ttx, I'm hoping that in some months I'll be able to free up some more time to sign up for at least working in one of those groups. around the time when colette asked re: SWG, I was just starting a new role and couldn't commit. | 09:44 |
| openstackgerrit | Kazunori Shinohara proposed openstack/governance master: Add heat-dashboard to heat project https://review.openstack.org/504166 | 09:45 |
| amrith | but I say that knowing that I'm also thinking of pushing hoard :) | 09:45 |
| ttx | so it feels like creating those workgroups is not enough, you need to have someone signed up to lead them | 09:45 |
| cdent | ttx, you make an excellent point about leadership. I wonder how well the TC itself would be doing if you didn’t have the “luxury” to devote the time you do to chairpersonship | 09:45 |
| ttx | at that point though it can be turned into a positive loop | 09:45 |
| ttx | cdent: it would definitely deliver less, since I spend a lot of time beating the drum to get things reviewed and decisions made in a reasonable timeframe | 09:46 |
| cdent | exactly. | 09:47 |
| ttx | so yes, at the heart of every group is a person with the "luxury" of pushing others to deliver | 09:47 |
| amrith | you are absolutely correct re: leadership. so in my little town, I'm a busybody and when it comes time to appoint people to committees, I get to vote on it. One of the questions I always ask a candidate is this; if asked to be the chairperson of this committee today, would you accept? If yes, why, and if not, why not. The answers are very telling. | 09:47 |
| amrith | Many people just 'want to be members'. Sorry, -1 | 09:47 |
| ttx | yes | 09:47 |
| amrith | Others say yes, they would, on day 0 ... +0 | 09:47 |
| ttx | it's a total;ly different type of commitment | 09:47 |
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| ttx | in one case you sign up to do some work, in the other, you sign up for weekly work | 09:48 |
| amrith | Some say yes, in a short while after they get over some kind of hurdle <procedural, tribal knowledge> ... | 09:48 |
| ttx | meeting chairing, status reports which have to go out every week otherwise things stall | 09:48 |
| amrith | the best is the person I met who said he'd been attending meetings for 3 months and so would be willing to be chair on day 0. and he would have made a good one ... | 09:48 |
| amrith | ttx, if you don't have a strong drive, you aren't a good committee member; any kind of committee. | 09:49 |
| amrith | just doing once a week work, great volunteer to hand out meals at the soup kitchen; it is transactional, you serve. | 09:49 |
| ttx | I'll also say it's difficult to lead multiple groups at the same time. Last cycle I had my team at the Foundationm,the TC and the release team, and it was a bit too much | 09:49 |
| ttx | I expect to do a better job at the TC now that smcginnis has taken over the release team drumbeating | 09:50 |
| ttx | But it's the same with release Goals -- without a champion it's just hard to deliver | 09:50 |
| ttx | and at the same time the number of potential champions (people with the "luxury" to dedicate a substantial amount of time leading an upstream team) is decreasing | 09:51 |
| amrith | speaking of hoard for one short second; meeting with a number of people very interested in "DBaaS not Trove", one theme I get is this; for orchestration use Kubernetes, not Heat. I never did really see Kubernetes and Heat as being interchangeable but that is a common theme that I'm hearing. not sure what exactly to make of it, still noodling the ideas. | 09:51 |
| cdent | observation: it’s been common that the release team drumbeater is a member of the TC. That seems non-optimal. | 09:52 |
| cdent | (sort of jinx to what ttx just said`) | 09:52 |
| ttx | yeah, there is really no reason for that. It's just an overlap in interests | 09:52 |
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| cdent | No, I think there _is_ a reason for that: What I said before: TC people have license | 09:52 |
| ttx | Same for the Infra PTL, was often a TC member | 09:52 |
| ttx | cdent: no. People with license will take over the jobs that need time and need to be done. that includes TC membership *and" release team PTLship | 09:53 |
| ttx | \or release team membership really since our 3 main team mebers are TC members | 09:54 |
| cdent | I think we’re making the some of the same points. | 09:54 |
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| ttx | its just that it ends up being the same people, not that you have to be a TC member to be successful in release management | 09:54 |
| cdent | It ought to be the case there are there are sufficient people with time for there not to be overlap | 09:54 |
| ttx | ++ | 09:54 |
| sdague | cdent: when has that ever been true though, in any context :) | 09:55 |
| cdent | No, that’s kind of the topic: can we change that? | 09:55 |
| amrith | //me// | 09:55 |
| * sdague coffinating still, so possibly still coming up to speed | 09:55 | |
| ttx | People end up on the TC because they have that luxury of being able to dedicate some of their time to it | 09:55 |
| sdague | right, I'm not even just talking about OpenStack & the TC | 09:55 |
| amrith | sorry, stuck keyboard | 09:55 |
| cdent | sdague: yeah, I know | 09:55 |
| ttx | I reached out to a few potential candidates lately | 09:56 |
| ttx | The main concern is not "I don't have what it takes" | 09:56 |
| ttx | It's "I don't think I have the time" | 09:56 |
| * amrith wonders whether the correlation between TC/release/infra is a shortage of interested people or something else | 09:56 | |
| amrith | is there a common thread; open source software just makes itself | 09:56 |
| amrith | why governance | 09:56 |
| sdague | I run other groups that include volunteers, there is always a lack of people to accomplish things and take responsibility. | 09:56 |
| ttx | yes, frankly I don't think this is overly specific to us. | 09:57 |
| sdague | so, while it's fair to ponder ways to make this better, I get concerned with "it ought to be the case..." as setting up a non plausible reality | 09:57 |
| cdent | sdague: perhaps read that as “ideally…” | 09:58 |
| cdent | sort of trying to make a north star, so we can navigate somewhat | 09:58 |
| sdague | which I think realistically was the reason neither the arch wg or swg went anywhere. There wasn't a plausible promise about what would get done | 09:58 |
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| cdent | on the other hand, from an economic standpoint, I think we are _far_ too undemanding of our corporate benefactors and often think we should rise up, take arms, and demand adjustments to the labor pool | 09:59 |
| cdent | this is _not_ a volunteer organization | 09:59 |
| ttx | At the core of every frustration is the imbalance between how much you expect to happen and how much you can actually do to make it hapen | 10:00 |
| * cdent pauses for a coffee refresh | 10:01 | |
| * amrith extends coffee cup to cdent ... | 10:02 | |
| ttx | cdent: so that is an area where I think the TC has not done enough: making it clear where we are struggling and making demands | 10:04 |
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| ttx | the top-5 list is a tool for that | 10:04 |
| ttx | we haven't been using it as much as we should | 10:04 |
| ttx | while our corporate sponsors could easily find that information by themselves, it's clearly the role of the TC to be VERY explicit there | 10:05 |
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| ttx | you should not be able to ignore it | 10:06 |
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| ttx | maybe we should explicitly put "champions" on the list -- people that lead startegic efforts | 10:07 |
| ttx | I certainly want to see Lance and Chandar recognized for stepping up and leading the Q goals | 10:07 |
| ttx | Chandan* | 10:07 |
| ttx | but there are plenty of other "championing" (or "leading" to do | 10:08 |
| ttx | since that's really how things get done -- a number of drum beaters and people that follow them | 10:08 |
| ttx | alright, lunchtime | 10:10 |
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| cdent | thanks amrith, got there by way of the grinder, kettle, aeropress | 10:13 |
| cdent | which always takes longer than expected | 10:13 |
| cdent | +1 to more explicit and more champion recognition | 10:14 |
| amrith | I like the champions idea; goes with the notion of recognition. | 10:14 |
| amrith | need more coffee ... | 10:14 |
| amrith | amused by our new hire onboarding website ... when the last one came onboard, it determined that he should show up at a location on day #1 which turned out to be an unmanned cell tower. Today it picked a retail store. Sometimes software shouldn't try to think :) | 10:15 |
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| sdague | heh | 10:19 |
| sdague | first day at an unmanned cell tower seems hillarious | 10:20 |
| sdague | you should get everyone to go and take selfies at those locations :) | 10:20 |
| cdent | clearly he was meant for the secret bunker | 10:22 |
| amrith | that may work for some; for others who are 'swarthy complexioned' taking selfies at an unmanned cell site is an invitation to healthcare not covered by your health insurance. | 10:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Adopt python-openstacksdk into shade project https://review.openstack.org/501426 | 10:47 |
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| persia | ttx: What is the "side benefit of having a TC member on staff"? Given the contractual obligations of TC members to put the interests of the foundation over those of their employer, and the transparency of the TC activity, I would perceive "allowing a member of staff to join the TC" as a cost to an employer, rather than a benefit. | 10:58 |
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| ttx | persia: some organizations like to brag about having TC members on staff | 11:43 |
| persia | Yes. I have never understood this, and wonder if it is perhaps yet another symptom of the issues discussed in office hours. | 11:44 |
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| cdent | persia: Unless orgs get some bragging value out of having TC members, why would they allow or encourage their staff to be on the TC. Is a bit of a catch 22. | 11:55 |
| persia | cdent: Yes, but is it really a surprise if folk a) think the TC is without action and b) fail to see the point of the TC when we define the TC as "the place where you send your staff to get bragging rights"? | 11:56 |
| persia | If we believe there is value in serving on the TC, making that value explicit helps justify the investment in paying for TC service. | 11:57 |
| cdent | If people only see that definition, then yeah, no surprise | 11:57 |
| persia | If you *must* be on the TC to do things, that makes funding TC service easy, but blocks activity, and causes org interest in subverting TC processes (to reduce the apparent tax of needing a TC member) | 11:58 |
| persia | I don't know the right answer, but I think finding one is important. | 11:59 |
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| persia | Perhaps part of it is having the org membership agreement indicate a willingness to let staff serve, as a necessary price to participation, but that might scare off potential new orgs. | 12:00 |
| cdent | persia: there seem to be several questions which need an answer. which one are you thinking of? | 12:00 |
| persia | There are three intertwined that I understood from the previous discussion: a) what does the TC do? b) why should an org fund someone to join the TC? and c) why should an individual offer to stand for the TC? | 12:01 |
| persia | C) depends a lot on B) because a lot of folk involved in openstack have limited time as a result of their employment arragements. | 12:02 |
| cdent | those are good summaries, I think there’s a d) in there too: whatever it is that the TC does, how can it do it (where’s the lever and fulcrum)? | 12:03 |
| persia | To my mind, the TC functions as a judicial and advisory body, so doesn't "do" things in the classic sense. | 12:03 |
| persia | One or more members of the community (possibly including TC members) advances an initiative: where that initiative requires changes in how we do things or forced agreement over the entire polity, the TC makes a statement. | 12:04 |
| persia | Most of the time, that statement can be gentle advice to smooth the waters. Sometimes that statement must be a formal resolution to indicate that some discussion is now complete. | 12:04 |
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| persia | But that only works for (A) in the event that folk are happy with a governance model that delegaters legislation to any participant with initiative and execution to all. | 12:05 |
| cdent | yeah, I guess the different perceptions of judiciary v executive v legislative lead a lot of the confusion | 12:05 |
| persia | And different meanings of "governance": in a political sense, this is well defined, but most "governance" as experienced by those in the private sector consists of assigned oversight of those not capable of self action (minors, the insane, and joint-stock corporations). | 12:07 |
| persia | In the latter sense, governance is mostly a matter of instruction and oversight, with little of the political elements found in the public sector. | 12:07 |
| persia | That aside, if you are looking for how to do something as a TC member, then I'll suggest just doing it, and when you need the TC mantle, looking to your peers for approval and support. | 12:08 |
| persia | But I don't find that any different than if I want to do something, when I'll just do it, and when I need TC, looking to the TC for approval and support. | 12:09 |
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| * cdent nods | 12:11 | |
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| sdague | ttx: if / when you come back around - https://github.com/sdague/github-topics - finally got some automation around updating topics for github. As I think we decided this was more a social / marketing function, it would be good to figure out who might be the right additional folks to help figure out what we should expose | 12:18 |
| sdague | because my first go at exposing tc tags, mostly seemed weird without the other context involved in them | 12:18 |
| sdague | but exposing things like api-server (or maybe I should call it rest-service) made more sense for exploring | 12:19 |
| ttx | sdague: thanks, I'll have a look. If we end up with more curated mirroring (only some repositories, and using multiple "organizations" to match the upstream buckets) we'll have to develop something to handle the mirroring outside of gerrit itself, so this could serve as a base | 12:22 |
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| sdague | ttx: maybe, this is really simplistic to just set these topics though | 12:23 |
| ttx | sure. I mean, we'll have to include topic-setting into that tool | 12:23 |
| sdague | for sure | 12:24 |
| ttx | Planning to give it some extra thought later this week | 12:24 |
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| sdague | relevant to earlier conversation - https://twitter.com/kixxauth/status/915188684114284544 | 12:27 |
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| ttx | sdague: I wonder how much this lack of recognition that everything boils down to work is a generational thing | 12:29 |
| ttx | or, put in another way: are we getting worse, or better at this | 12:30 |
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| sdague | I think the generational argument is a lazy thinking one. I know lots of older folks that don't follow through. | 12:31 |
| ttx | heh | 12:32 |
| ttx | Follow-up on the Monasca transition off Java -- it's still in the cards, they will remove the Java monasca-api variant. monasca-thresh will be rewritten, just lacking resources for that at the moment. The persister is a bit more complex as it just grew a dependency on Cassandra | 12:33 |
| ttx | will remove the monasca-api cariant this cycle I mean | 12:33 |
| ttx | the persister is likely to keep a Java variant, could be an unofficial repo though | 12:34 |
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| ttx | so.. still in progress | 12:35 |
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| fungi | sdague: we also need a volunteer to write configurable mirroring daemons (maybe listening to firehose.o.o for change-merged events to know to pull from gerrit/git.o.o and push to gh). the sooner we can create some new top-level orgs in gh not under the infra team's control and start categorizing different deliverable repos into them, the better in my opinion. doesn't need to wait for namespace | 12:43 |
| fungi | flattening upstream either, just needs to be able to accommodate it when that eventually happens | 12:43 |
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| cdent | sdague: I think that tweet, while relevant, is itself pretty lazy thinking. Sure you gotta do work to move things, that’s physics. But just saying you are going to do work does not resolve the various conflicts (internal and external to both the task and executor) that come up. | 13:02 |
| cdent | Also, to me, it smacks far too much of rugged individualism: put up or shut up, which I feel is difficult in collaborative environments. | 13:03 |
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| persia | The narrative of individualism vs. collectivism is detrimental to democratic regimes: "collectivism" is usually interpreted as "doing things for everyone" with an implication of some approval body to make those decisions, which limits the ability of members of the general polity to take action. | 13:05 |
| cdent | poppycock | 13:06 |
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| sdague | cdent: hard work includes getting people to agree to things | 13:10 |
| cdent | of course, I know that, I’m not two. | 13:10 |
| cdent | But that doesn’t change my assertion. | 13:10 |
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| cdent | It’s kind of like saying “to boil water, you need heat”. This is true, but not sufficient. You need containment, water, etc | 13:12 |
| openstackgerrit | Lee Yarwood proposed openstack/governance master: Add the supports-accessible-upgrade tag to Nova and Cinder https://review.openstack.org/509170 | 13:12 |
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| sdague | sure, I see all that embedded in that tweet. But then again, tweet's are rorschock tests, given that they don't have enough space to provide nuance | 13:13 |
| cdent | now with 280 chars they do! | 13:13 |
| openstackgerrit | Lee Yarwood proposed openstack/governance master: Add the supports-accessible-upgrade tag to Nova and Cinder https://review.openstack.org/509170 | 13:14 |
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| dhellmann | regarding the stable/LTS discussion: http://www.zdnet.com/article/long-term-support-linux-gets-a-longer-lease-on-life/#ftag=RSSbaffb68 | 13:52 |
| mtreinish | ttx: fwiw, I already built the compute starter kit cloud. It's sitting in my closet | 13:55 |
| mtreinish | ttx: http://blog.kortar.org/?p=380 | 13:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | Chandan Kumar proposed openstack/governance master: Add python-tempestconf under RefStack https://review.openstack.org/509238 | 17:43 |
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