| tonyb | andreaf, persia: https://governance.openstack.org/election/ is now current. | 01:19 |
|---|---|---|
| persia | tonyb: Thanks for watching the rechecks on that. | 01:19 |
| tonyb | persia: cool. I abandoned the s/pike/queens/ change and went a different way | 01:20 |
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| cdent | tc-members and anyone else, assemble, it’s office hours time | 15:00 |
| smcginnis | Hey cdent! o/ | 15:00 |
| cdent | o/ | 15:00 |
| cdent | I’m still thinking about harlowja’s tc<->management confab | 15:01 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 15:01 |
| smcginnis | I missed some office hours - are we saying constellations are pretty much dead on arrival? | 15:01 |
| cdent | I checked with my manager, and they are intrigued | 15:01 |
| smcginnis | cdent: It's an interesting idea. It could work out well, or it could work out horribly. | 15:01 |
| dtroyer | I read most if that, I think… not quite sure what exactly we might expect to get out of it. | 15:01 |
| smcginnis | Probably somewhere in between. | 15:01 |
| cdent | uh oh, what about constellations? | 15:02 |
| cdent | smcginnis: you have a link to something? | 15:02 |
| dtroyer | some would be interested I am sure, others will see it as another bother from people who do not affect his bonus (I am thinking of one or two real people here) | 15:02 |
| dtroyer | hopefully they are the minority | 15:02 |
| smcginnis | cdent: Just from reading your TC post. Maybe I just misinterpreted some of the wording and skimmed a missed office hour too quickly. | 15:02 |
| * cdent hmmms | 15:02 | |
| EmilienM | o/ | 15:03 |
| * EmilienM waves | 15:03 | |
| cdent | ah, that. I don’t know about dead on arrival, but only possible with consistent support from the “core” projects | 15:03 |
| ttx | ohai | 15:03 |
| cdent | which has proven difficult at times | 15:03 |
| fungi | i'm not really here (busy with infra wildfires) but will catch up from logs later | 15:03 |
| cdent | don’t let the smoke out! | 15:04 |
| ttx | I wanted us to get to a final decision on the Glare application | 15:04 |
| * ttx checks current status | 15:04 | |
| cdent | ttx I wonder if that might require a meeting since we often struggle to get quorum here | 15:04 |
| cdent | or at least an active email thread | 15:05 |
| ttx | We have 3 votes in support, 4 votes against, one official +0 from cdent | 15:05 |
| ttx | position from other members unknown | 15:05 |
| ttx | EmilienM: any opinion on that one ? | 15:05 |
| sdague | o/ | 15:05 |
| ttx | I guess we have 3 options: In, Out, wait until elections are over | 15:06 |
| EmilienM | ttx: I'm currently in a call but let me catch up here | 15:06 |
| * EmilienM reads context | 15:06 | |
| ttx | dims, dtroyer, mordred: any opinion on Glare? | 15:07 |
| ttx | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/479285/ | 15:07 |
| EmilienM | ttx: ok Glare. I haven't voted or expressed my opinion yet but I'll do today. | 15:07 |
| dtroyer | I think we set a precedent by not approving it, one that on one hand I want to set (raise the bar to get in) but that we may also immediatley contradict if Mogen is approved. | 15:07 |
| dtroyer | watching the discussion it seems to venture into personalities and history more than I would like. since we approve teams, that seems in-bound | 15:08 |
| dtroyer | but it doesn't feel right to me | 15:08 |
| sdague | history does matter | 15:09 |
| dtroyer | I'm not saying it doesn't | 15:09 |
| dtroyer | but some histroy applies to individuals, not teams | 15:09 |
| ttx | objections include: need to see some time pass to see how they do without branding as Glance's future | 15:09 |
| dtroyer | and in some cases, individuals no longer in our community | 15:09 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 15:09 |
| dtroyer | they are going to do whatever we say they need to do to be approved. | 15:10 |
| dtroyer | if we're going to deny it, we should do it now | 15:10 |
| ttx | objections include: "this is not really a IaaS use case, more of a generic artifact storing solution | 15:10 |
| ttx | In both cases we'd use teh mission mismatch to justify saying no | 15:10 |
| ttx | anything I missed? | 15:11 |
| persia | On Glare, I found Doug's comment on the Mogan application about projects owning feature space to be interesting in this context. | 15:11 |
| dtroyer | so what else do w e have in that is not an IaaS use case? | 15:11 |
| dtroyer | persia: exactly, I don't think these two are able to be completely separated | 15:11 |
| ttx | Solum | 15:11 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer : what's the relationship with mogen? | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am more worried about how we keep the current image API working for our users long time (I care much less who implements it) | 15:12 |
| dtroyer | scope overlap | 15:12 |
| dtroyer | dhellmann: ^^ | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | my concern with glare is not that they have some scope overlap. it's the way the team has started destructive conversations at the first sign of other teams starting to struggle. | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | for mogan, I think we should encourage experimentation and exploration of a new bare metal API. There's clearly desire for one. | 15:13 |
| dtroyer | so that's not mission creep, as ttx just suggested | 15:13 |
| persia | ssssam: If you're fine with thinking that through a bit, that would be lovely. I'm certain that tristan and I would both be happy to review, and even take it away to argue if we can't agree. | 15:13 |
| ttx | dtroyer: mission creep was raised by people other than dhellmann, like fungi or cdent | 15:14 |
| persia | Apologies: rogue mouse click | 15:14 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer : well, I also don't think the glare team has a good idea of what they're trying to do, but I think they could work that out. | 15:14 |
| ttx | dtroyer: aka a solution in search of a problem | 15:14 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that just means the project may ultimately fail, but I don't see that as necessarily a blocker. | 15:15 |
| dtroyer | ttx: I don't disagree, but there are multiple things here being thrown about, and I'd say the -1 votes are not all for the same reasons. we should be clear about that if we don't approve, and not just hang it on one thing that happens to not be about people | 15:15 |
| ttx | fwiw if we can't get a majority to say "yes", then "no" obviously wins | 15:15 |
| dhellmann | I have tried to be very clear about my position. Please let me know if I've not been successful. | 15:16 |
| ttx | dtroyer: agree on multiple different reasons to say no | 15:16 |
| smcginnis | I could also see it failing as far as a needed OpenStack service, but basically end up being incubated with OpenStack and then spun out if it finds some non-OS consumers. | 15:16 |
| fungi | i did say it was worth reconsidering if they want to reapply later after a change in leadership (among other factors). i do think it's about people, at least to some extent, and how they choose to attempt to evolve their work | 15:16 |
| persia | If the issue is about people, I suspect it is healthier for the entire community to say that, and express the behaviours that cause unhappiness, with the idea of not having them repeated by others. | 15:16 |
| dtroyer | dhellmann: you have been clear. there are multiple positions and I need a scorecard to track them :) | 15:16 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : sure, that may happen | 15:16 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer : ack | 15:16 |
| ttx | dhellmann: you've been clear. At this point I'm more interested in those who haven't expressed their position | 15:16 |
| ttx | see if that's likely to change the decision or not | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | ttx : yeah, it would be good to have everyone weigh in on this one, since there's clearly not consensus | 15:17 |
| ttx | i.e are they all +0 | 15:17 |
| ttx | or did they just not have the opportunity to consider it | 15:17 |
| ttx | With q! next week I'd like to defer to R or accept in Q before next week | 15:18 |
| ttx | q1 | 15:18 |
| * dhellmann nods | 15:18 | |
| dtroyer | my problem is I have conflicting (personal) agendas; I want to be picky about what get approved, for variosu reasons, but I also want an opportunity to improve our core and this is frankly the only way that one core API is ever going to be fixed | 15:18 |
| * ttx mostly got used to this keyboard layout, but numbers still trip me up | 15:18 | |
| cdent | dtroyer: is that true? I think the conditions laid out for approval includes “don’t tread on glance” | 15:19 |
| cdent | so if you’re holding out for that, then.... | 15:19 |
| dtroyer | cdent: exactly, and I'm not in favor of that. we talk about comeptition and here we're being protectionist. | 15:19 |
| * cdent nods | 15:19 | |
| cdent | it is indeed weird and complicated | 15:20 |
| smcginnis | I think the conversation was to not make that their initial goal. | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | FWIW, I am not against glare replacing glance, I am against forcing all users to move to a new image API | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | cdent : if someone actually spent the time to develop a migration path, I would not object to that. My objection is to the FUD sown by the approaches taken so far. | 15:20 |
| smcginnis | If they are able to grow and meet other uses cases, and things evolve to the point where it makes sense for them to replace glance, then that's OK. | 15:20 |
| * cdent nods at dhellman | 15:20 | |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: +1 that | 15:20 |
| dtroyer | on purely technical grounds, I never really understood exactly why we needed Glance, other than it was already a thing in Rax. and it's history shows some of that, plus it has such an oddball api in some ways | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer : are you suggesting putting image management in nova? | 15:21 |
| sdague | dtroyer: vs. it being build in nova function? | 15:21 |
| persia | dtroyer: A) hysterical raisins, B) it packages metadata and blobs in a convenient way for a number of use cases not otherwise well handled | 15:21 |
| dtroyer | I'm not suggesting that now, but the way it came about wasnt for the same reasons we wouldn't do it that way now | 15:22 |
| dhellmann | ok. as long as that's not the proposal. :-) | 15:22 |
| dtroyer | oh hell no, we can talk about what I think about carving up nova another time :) | 15:22 |
| sdague | dtroyer: so I'm skeptical on "start from scratch" fixing existing functionality | 15:22 |
| dhellmann | let's not rathole on this again | 15:23 |
| sdague | because it also breaks lots of lesser understood working behaviors | 15:23 |
| sdague | dhellmann: sure, though that is the crux of it right? | 15:23 |
| ttx | OK, so in my summary tomorrow I'll mention that the final call on this one for Queens will be made based on the votes on the review on Tuesday | 15:23 |
| dtroyer | sdague: I know you are… but I also don't want to prevent a better alternative from becoming available. | 15:23 |
| dhellmann | sdague : only if someone ever comes up with a real proposal | 15:23 |
| ttx | If there is no majority for it in that ccyle, it will eb rejecetd | 15:23 |
| cdent | ttx that sounds like a good plan | 15:24 |
| dhellmann | ttx: +1 to Tuesday as a deadline | 15:24 |
| ttx | because most of all I'm embarassed with the time it took for us to give an answer | 15:24 |
| dhellmann | and if it does not pass, and there are questions about what to do for a second attempt, then we should find 1-2 tc members to work with the glare team directly | 15:25 |
| dhellmann | maybe we want to do that even if there aren't any questions | 15:25 |
| ttx | Mogan and Stackube will be frozen too, since a lot of discussion needs to happen before we can push them in | 15:25 |
| dhellmann | it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to do that for all applications, even if they aren't contentious | 15:26 |
| cdent | the new membership may change this picture quite a bit | 15:26 |
| dtroyer | all of these specific reasons are well-argued, but in the end I think we need to be true to our overall direction, and I do not think that letting Glare fall to the side is consistent with where we have been, nor where we talk about wanting to go. | 15:26 |
| ttx | OpenStack-Helm could be pushed in though as it's (I think) reasonably straghtforward | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer : I agree. Hence my suggestion to find them some mentors on the TC. | 15:26 |
| persia | In another community, one of the management groups decided to vote in a way that required a quorum of +1s, with most folk voting +0 rather than -1 when they disagreed. One of the side effects of this was complaints by people new or outside the community about unresponsiveness by governance. Swtiching the +0 to -1 as a default behaviour was considered preferable by those judged, who felt they had feedback on which they could act. If folk | 15:26 |
| persia | actively plan not to vote on Glare, I strongly encourage replacing that idea with a -1, to provide guidance not only to the team but to observers. | 15:26 |
| ttx | Agree on the need to give any frozen thing 1-2 tc mentors | 15:27 |
| ttx | I'm volunteering for Mogan and Stackube fwiw | 15:27 |
| dhellmann | persia : that's useful feedback | 15:27 |
| cdent | persia: in case it’s not clear my current +0 is because I was waiting for feedback from glare people, but nobody has responded | 15:27 |
| ttx | Any volunteer for Glare ? | 15:27 |
| dtroyer | persia: I think it would be fair in this case to ask every member to explain a lack of a vote for that sort of reason… | 15:27 |
| cdent | I guess that lack of response could lead me to a -1 | 15:27 |
| persia | cdent: That is a good reason for +0. It is different than the reson for abstaining from votes. | 15:28 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I will be #2, but I would want someone else to take point. | 15:28 |
| dhellmann | do we have any (other) tc candidates in the room today? | 15:28 |
| ttx | cdent or johnthetubaguy maybe | 15:28 |
| dhellmann | up for election, I mean | 15:28 |
| EmilienM | I would love to volunteer on Glare but I'm still catching up on that one, tbh | 15:28 |
| ttx | oh | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | sorry, non sequitur, I was just curious to know if we had anyone not currently serving around with an opinion | 15:29 |
| persia | dhellmann: Bad timezone for many, this office hour. | 15:29 |
| cdent | Love to, but I’m swamped and very behind on several things. I nominate dtroyer as he and dhellmann seem to have usefully different mindsets | 15:29 |
| dtroyer | I'm not up for election so I'd have at least half a term to work on glare officially… sign me up | 15:29 |
| cdent | jinx! | 15:29 |
| dtroyer | cdent: I could feel you looking at me | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer : I'll be your second, regardless of the election outcome | 15:29 |
| cdent | i have powerful eyes | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: I am curious about moving mogan forward, but I can't be at the Forum, so probably better someone else takes that. | 15:30 |
| ttx | alirighty, we are set, incase happens what is likely to happen at this point | 15:30 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: I'll take it, and try to get a newly elected member with me | 15:30 |
| mugsie | I am lurking | 15:31 |
| mugsie | (on a call though :/ ) | 15:31 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : I'm curious to hear your opinion, now or later, on glare. More input is good. | 15:31 |
| mugsie | Historically, I would be a firm -1 . Based on the discussion and from talking to Glance people in Denver would soften my stance slightly. | 15:34 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : based on one of the existing points that has been raised, or something else? | 15:34 |
| mugsie | with the shrinking scope, I am not sure what they add, but we have traditionally been a "this is a group of humans that work in the same we do" | 15:35 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: based on points raised | 15:35 |
| mugsie | and rosmaita's +1 - I trust his judgement on dealing with them in the future | 15:35 |
| * dhellmann nods | 15:36 | |
| EmilienM | for Glare, I like fungi's comment very much and I'm thinking the exact same thing, it seems like Glare's scope isn't defined well enough and for that I'll -1 as well | 15:36 |
| mugsie | They are in a wierd place of being spun out of a offical project, and ending up in limbo | 15:36 |
| EmilienM | ttx: if that can help, I can pair with you on mogan | 15:37 |
| dhellmann | yeah, we should definitely take this as an example of something to avoid in the future, if we can figure out the root cause | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | I remember arguments about having another major version of the image API, and folks agreed to disagree, but I could be miss-remembering all that. | 15:38 |
| persia | dhellmann: I don't believe there is a single root cause: the poor timing of the spinout + the API v1 issues + staffing constraints within the parent project led to many complexities that mask the underlying issues. | 15:38 |
| dtroyer | not that I am saying this is the case, but placement is in the same kind of potential spin-out-to-separate-project place…hopefully that is an example of doing it right | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | dtroyer: that's more like cinder, its code that is used by the core | 15:38 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: it is not too far removed from the neutron drivers being removed from OpenStack. a group of people working on things in the community were moved out of it | 15:38 |
| persia | johnthetubaguy: Your memory is consistent with the information I have received | 15:39 |
| dtroyer | johnthetubaguy: good point... | 15:39 |
| mugsie | not anywhere near as harsh, as it was an agreed split, but still | 15:39 |
| fungi | honestly, they have software someone is using. if they were to apply as a team with work scoped to the thing they currently have and the way it's being used, i would have far fewer concerns | 15:39 |
| dtroyer | mugsie: yup, better example maybe | 15:39 |
| cdent | mugsie: I can report that progress is being made on reversing that neutron situation | 15:39 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : interesting comparison. I'm not sure how parallel the cases are, but it's worth thinking more about | 15:39 |
| cdent | fungi++ | 15:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: same here | 15:40 |
| persia | fungi: At the PTG, the scope, mission, etc. were all rewritten with the goal of accomplishing that. What is missing from your perspective to achieve the applicaiton you desire? | 15:40 |
| mugsie | cdent: fungi so it comes down to a level of trust for individuals ? | 15:40 |
| fungi | i didn't see it stop claiming to be a generic atrifact archive | 15:40 |
| fungi | rather than, say, a means of sharing heat templates | 15:40 |
| fungi | one is an implementation detail, the other a valid use case that aligns with a potentially missing piece of the openstack ecosystem | 15:41 |
| persia | fungi: Then perhaps you and I differ in our understanding of "artifact". The API is specifically designed to be flexible (to avoid the issues with the Glance API that led to Glare existing as a separate project), but all mention of overtake of Glance or similar was removed. | 15:42 |
| ttx | Second topics from me: campaigning | 15:42 |
| persia | I'm not sure requiring rearchitecture to be less generic is the message anyone wants to send. | 15:42 |
| persia | Slapping folk for misbehaving seems fine, but that's different. | 15:42 |
| * persia stops writing about Glare | 15:42 | |
| ttx | We added a campaigning period as some people wanted extra time to quiz candidates | 15:43 |
| ttx | But this hasn't really been happening | 15:43 |
| fungi | persia: yes, as i said before, i'm not worried about it actually replacing glance or barbican or swift or whatever. i'm more concerns about it focusing on an achievable use case rather than defining a generic solution to everyone's problems | 15:43 |
| ttx | should we somehow start it ? | 15:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: there were a nice set of questions last time, should we seed the debate with similar questions? | 15:43 |
| dhellmann | cdent : it sounds like there's good news on neutron. Can you get into more detail yet? | 15:44 |
| mugsie | ttx: an idea - ask the community for questions, that are then currated by the election officals (if they feel they have the time) and ask all candidates to answer? | 15:44 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: I feel uncomfortable as TC member to quiz candidates | 15:44 |
| ttx | it's not a hiring interview | 15:44 |
| ttx | but election officials could I guess | 15:44 |
| fungi | we used to be able to rely on cdent to grill us | 15:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: me too really | 15:44 |
| ttx | or any regular person | 15:44 |
| persia | I can quiz folk, and I suspect that generally, the election officials can organise debates, or similar. I, at least, would want direction and guidance to do so before taking action. | 15:45 |
| cdent | dhellmann: not a great deal to share other than miguel has reviewed the history and thinks there was a lot of miscommunication in the past and that things are different now and wouldn’t it be nice to have drivers back under the neutron umbrella | 15:45 |
| fungi | but now he's on the inside | 15:45 |
| cdent | fungi: yeah, I’m assuming it would be bad form to hassle people from there | 15:45 |
| dhellmann | I'm also uncomfortable as a candidate putting up any questions, although I'd like to hear from folks what they would add if we changed our top 5 list to a top 10 list. | 15:45 |
| * EmilienM like to be grilled by cdent :D | 15:45 | |
| EmilienM | ttx: I voted +0 on glare for now, and commented. | 15:45 |
| * cdent will bring his bbq to sydney, for EmilienM | 15:45 | |
| dhellmann | cdent : wonderful. thank you. | 15:45 |
| ttx | time is quickly running out for that campaigning so that should be started asap | 15:45 |
| * dhellmann changes his lunch plans to grilled cheese | 15:46 | |
| persia | campaigning period ends a quarter to midnight UTC Saturday | 15:46 |
| cdent | I think some of the usual suspects just need to be reminded that it is question time | 15:46 |
| cdent | both by an email to the list and also some personal prompting | 15:46 |
| * cdent looks at harlowja | 15:47 | |
| cdent | but also election officials seeding the ground (today) seems useful | 15:47 |
| dhellmann | persia : are those usual suspects still with us? | 15:47 |
| cdent | dhellmann: your question about top 5 -> top 10 is a great one, we need a sock puppet | 15:48 |
| persia | Sadly, as this is the first week I've had an installed MUA since 2006, I'm not the best person to ask about usual suspects who may have engaged in activity on mailing lists. | 15:48 |
| dhellmann | cdent : I've done my part :-) | 15:49 |
| persia | I'm happy to prod people if someone wants to backchannel me a list of folk who might be prodded. I'm also happy to collate lists and wipe off names of anyone who suggests names to me. And with my new shiny MUA, I can accept such notes by email as well as /query. | 15:49 |
| EmilienM | ttx: re: mogan - what is the need, is this about the Forum session? | 15:50 |
| dtroyer | EmilienM: we talked about that forum session a bit yesterday in the session selection meeting… | 15:52 |
| dhellmann | persia : have the election officials already sent an email suggesting that anyone can ask questions? (sorry, I'm behind on email today) | 15:54 |
| dtroyer | there seemed to be some concern that it be more of a conversation about how it fits in and works with the existing services and not just "Mogen is great" | 15:54 |
| persia | dhellmann: Not that I received. We can send that notice today, if that is useful. | 15:55 |
| cdent | persia: yes please | 15:55 |
| dhellmann | persia : yes, please, I think that a reminder on that would be good. this "campaigning period" is still relatively new | 15:55 |
| persia | We shall do so, and also add related instructions to cause those to happen in future elections near the start of the campaigning period. | 15:56 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 15:56 |
| EmilienM | dtroyer: good to know, thanks | 15:56 |
| dhellmann | persia : thank you | 15:57 |
| * dhellmann has to drop off for a call | 15:58 | |
| persia | On a related note, if anyone can tag the governance repo with 'oct-2017-elections' and notify the election officials, we would find that very helpful for calculating rolls (although there are some possible merges that may want to happen first) | 15:58 |
| ttx | dtroyer, EmilienM: well I want to see how much cooperation can happen between the various slightly-overlapping scopes in there | 16:01 |
| ttx | Like https://wiki.openstack.org/w/images/thumb/3/39/Mogan-why.png/600px-Mogan-why.png | 16:02 |
| EmilienM | ttx: indeed | 16:02 |
| EmilienM | ttx: where is ironic? | 16:02 |
| dtroyer | I believe Ironic lives under Mogan from a cloud consumer point of view | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | persia : we should set things up so we can do the tagging through the releases repo | 16:03 |
| zaneb | ttx: speaking as any regular person, I can volunteer to commence the grilling :) | 16:03 |
| * dtroyer just realized he has been spelling Mogan with an 'e' for a while now | 16:03 | |
| persia | dhellmann: Once the election is completed, I'd be delighted to explore that with you. I don't want to change things now. | 16:03 |
| ttx | yes, ironic is below both | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | persia : ++ | 16:03 |
| cdent | zaneb++ | 16:04 |
| ttx | zaneb: ++ | 16:05 |
| cdent | fungi++ on your “engage with dist folk” message | 16:11 |
| fungi | dtroyer: perhaps you conflate it with "mugen" | 16:14 |
| dtroyer | fungi: maybe if I had played more games with my boys when they were little? I'm afraid it come from the wine | 16:18 |
| cdent | mugen makes aftermarket exhausts, yeah? | 16:19 |
| dtroyer | it seems they do…for a market that doesn't necessarily overlap much with my V8-based history | 16:21 |
| fungi | mugen is also the name of one of the protagonists in the shinichirō watanabe series "samurai champloo" | 16:22 |
| fungi | (if you enjoy animated shows, i highly recommend it) | 16:22 |
| dtroyer | I'm afraid my animated tastes are more toward C. Jones and Tex Avery productions :) | 16:23 |
| dtroyer | Adam Reed too | 16:23 |
| fungi | i have a deep appreciation for them as well, yes | 16:25 |
| fungi | love old mgm stuff | 16:25 |
| fungi | and warner | 16:26 |
| fungi | and early disney for that matter | 16:26 |
| fungi | even a lot of the ruby-spears and hanna-barbera stuff | 16:27 |
| fungi | and later western animation, especially bakshi and kricfalusi/spümcø | 16:29 |
| fungi | and judge, and hertzfeldt... | 16:30 |
| * fungi watches far too many cartoons | 16:31 | |
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| zaneb | ttx, cdent: grilling has commenced | 16:54 |
| cdent | zaneb: nicely done | 16:55 |
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| harlowja | cdent reading | 17:02 |
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| harlowja | cdent whats up ,ha | 17:19 |
| harlowja | zaneb openstack isn't a distributed system??? :( | 17:20 |
| cdent | you’re questioning mind is needed | 17:20 |
| cdent | your | 17:20 |
| * cdent needs a new mind | 17:20 | |
| harlowja | i shall ask question | 17:20 |
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| harlowja | just one | 17:20 |
| harlowja | lol | 17:20 |
| * cdent resets is lamport clock | 17:20 | |
| harlowja | how did u manage to reset it, lol | 17:21 |
| harlowja | didn't know u could reset it, lol | 17:21 |
| cdent | it’s a feature I added to myself | 17:21 |
| harlowja | isn't it monotonically increasing only, lol | 17:22 |
| * harlowja i forget | 17:22 | |
| cdent | yes, I embraced and extended | 17:23 |
| harlowja | cool bill gates | 17:23 |
| * cdent checks his back account | 17:23 | |
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| harlowja | cdent something about morgan? what shall i ask :-P | 17:27 |
| cdent | you don’t need to be told, you’re one of the usual suspects who can come up with something themselves | 17:28 |
| cdent | dhellmann was needing a sock puppet, you’re better off being original | 17:28 |
| harlowja | lol | 17:28 |
| harlowja | kk | 17:28 |
| harlowja | so one thing i would like to say, not a question | 17:28 |
| harlowja | is cdent weekly reports are very nice :) | 17:28 |
| cdent | thanks. I need a staff. | 17:28 |
| harlowja | they just need a comic section at the end... | 17:28 |
| cdent | ha, perfect, I’ll work on that | 17:29 |
| harlowja | and maybe a sports section | 17:29 |
| cdent | In sports news: yet another openstack person likes climbing, but doesn’t have a chance to do it as much as they like. | 17:29 |
| harlowja | booo | 17:29 |
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| smcginnis | dtroyer: Well written response! | 21:11 |
| dtroyer | smcginnis: thanks. I've struggled with this one a bit | 21:13 |
| smcginnis | dtroyer: I think many of have. | 21:13 |
| dtroyer | yup | 21:13 |
| tonyb | I sent an email to the TC list which is help up in moderation can someone clear it? | 21:14 |
| tonyb | fungi, ttx: It's about tagging the governance repo so we can generate the rolls | 21:14 |
| dtroyer | I'm unsure who other than ttx has moderator bit, I'd guess fungi probably does for sure | 21:14 |
| tonyb | dtroyer: Thanks | 21:15 |
| fungi | dtroyer: tonyb: i do not have mod perms on the tc ml, no | 21:16 |
| tonyb | fungi: Oh okay. | 21:16 |
| fungi | i have teh ability through a command-line tool to add myself as a moderator, but that's an option i'm hesitant to exercise with any mailing list except in extreme circumstances | 21:16 |
| tonyb | fungi: Yeah I understand. I'll make sure I overlap with ttx this afternoon/evening | 21:17 |
| dtroyer | fungi: and here I thought you were one of the few that had _all_ of the keys :) can you tell who else does? | 21:18 |
| dtroyer | had mod bit that is | 21:18 |
| fungi | dtroyer: yep, was just looking that up but we're also in an infra pow-wow | 21:18 |
| dtroyer | sure, thanks. tonyb is the one waiting :) | 21:18 |
| fungi | ttx is the only owner and the only moderator according to `sudo config_list -o- openstack-tc` | 21:19 |
| fungi | bus factor of o(1) | 21:19 |
| dtroyer | but with a failsafe | 21:33 |
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| persia | tonyb: The other option is to go to the admin interface, cancel your message, subscribe to the mailing list, and re-send. | 22:20 |
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| tonyb | persia: I am subscribed | 22:41 |
| persia | Odd. I thought that list allowed posts by subscribed folk. Perhaps I'm mistaken. | 22:42 |
| tonyb | persia: Now that you say that I was under the same imprsssion, in fact in the past I subscribed fo rjust that reason | 22:43 |
| tonyb | persia: The reason is just "Post to moderated list". | 22:44 |
| persia | Odd. I subscribed to be able to post at the conclusion of the PTL election, which worked. I wonder what changed. | 22:45 |
| * tonyb shrugs | 22:47 | |
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| dhellmann | the tc list is set so tc members can post freely but other subscribers are moderated because we want most traffic to go to the -dev list (the tc list is mostly for announcements) | 23:08 |
| fungi | yeah, we generally refrain from using the tc ml for ad hoc discussion, mostly just as a point of contact and for administrivia | 23:14 |
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| persia | This is an incredibly sensible policy. It would be good to document it more clearly at http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-tc (the "non-members" bit is often used for other mailing lists to refer to those not subscribed). | 23:19 |
| persia | Folk who have reason to post to the TC list as non-members would know to ask in Office Hours (or have a proxy do so). | 23:19 |
| dhellmann | or just post to the -dev list with the [tc] tag | 23:21 |
| persia | dhellmann: For things like "TC, please add this tag" or "TC, this delegated action could not be completed as requested"? | 23:22 |
| dhellmann | yes | 23:22 |
| dhellmann | well, the first should just be a patch | 23:22 |
| dhellmann | but the second is appropriate for the -dev list | 23:22 |
| persia | Can gerrit add a tag via a patch? | 23:22 |
| persia | For the second, updating the documentation is relatively easy. | 23:23 |
| dhellmann | oh, sorry, you meant git tag. I was thinking our governance tags | 23:23 |
| persia | I mean git tag. The request for a git tag on the governance repo is the email that is currently stuck in queue. | 23:23 |
| dhellmann | that's why I suggested we work on making the releases repo able to do git tags for governance | 23:23 |
| dhellmann | I think only ttx has the permissions needed to apply the tag | 23:23 |
| persia | I think so as well, but for transparency, it somehow feels better to request the TC to do it, rather than just the one person, where the one person does it, as chair of the TC. | 23:24 |
| persia | And I would hope, did chair rotate, that many of these things would end up as responsibilities of the chair. | 23:24 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I agree on transparency | 23:24 |
| dhellmann | and yes, they would | 23:24 |
| dhellmann | (rotate) | 23:24 |
| dhellmann | I should say "tc chair" not "ttx" | 23:25 |
| persia | Yes, but we've all become rather dependent on the standard three-letter abbreviation for "tc chair" ;) | 23:26 |
| dhellmann | true | 23:26 |
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