Thursday, 2018-04-26

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dhellmannfungi : is there a way to make the foundation member API return all affiliations for someone?13:54
dhellmannI seem to only be getting 1 value for myself, for example13:54
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aspiersare there 3 mins of office hours left?!13:57
aspiersor is it not starting for another hour13:57
fungiaspiers: office hour starts today at 1500z13:57
smcginnisaspiers: But we still like to lounge in the office.13:58
aspiersfungi: yeah, but that assumes that I can convert between UTC and BST ;-)13:58
fungi"Thursdays at 15:00 UTC" per /topic13:58
aspiersjust because I live in the UK it doesn't mean I have a brain13:58
aspierspossibly the opposite ;-)13:58
aspiers1500z is ... 4pm BST13:59
aspiersOK great, so I didn't miss the window for this week13:59
smcginnisFeel free to raise topics and ask questions at any time though.13:59
aspierswell I can easily wait an hour, but was just after a sanity check that my approach on makes sense13:59
fungidhellmann: there is in fact a magic parameter you can find by reading some php (yay lack of documentation). relations=all_affiliations14:00
aspierssince I'm hoping to shortly publish the doodle poll I just created14:00
fungidhellmann: for increased detail you might want expand=groups&relations=all_affiliations,groups14:00
dhellmannfungi : is that php code publicly available somewhere? :-)14:01
aspiersthe approach is kind of based on the bluejeans video call for kickstarting / level-setting the skip-level upgrades discussion which happened about 12(?) months ago14:01
smcginnisaspiers: That all looks good to me.14:01
fungidhellmann: yeah, i linked it in here the other day along wit the link to how we're using the api in the election repo. lemme find it again14:01
dhellmannaspiers : yeah, when you have something to bring up you should just bring it up.14:01
aspiersdhellmann: cool, thanks :)14:01
dhellmannfungi : thanks, I can find it if you're busy14:02
aspierssmcginnis: great, thank you14:02
fungigrepped my irc client log14:02
fungiaspiers: yeah, office hours are good for if you're having trouble finding tc members around, but feel free to ask questions in here any time14:03
aspiersfungi: got it14:03
dhellmannaspiers : are you going to have a forum session, too?14:15
aspiersdhellmann: oh wow, somehow that didn't even occur to me :-/  Well, I guess I was imagining that it would be covered during the self-healing session14:16
dhellmannI'm also curious if you see this as a new sig or an initiative of the self-healing sig (it doesn't matter, I'm just interested)14:16
aspiersgreat minds, or something :)14:16
aspiersNo, that's actually a great question which I hadn't considered until right now.14:16
aspiersI guess there could be benefits from splitting it off. What do you think?14:17
dhellmannI'm not sure who to tell you to talk to about that. Maybe follow up on Jimmy's email with the proposed schedule? There were some open slots.14:17
dhellmannoh that's about the forum session14:17
dhellmannas far as a separate group, if there is a home for this already I'd just stay there until there's an obvious reason to move out14:17
dhellmannif there's no real overlap with the rest of the sig, then maybe it makes sense14:18
aspiersI think there's some overlap for sure14:18
dhellmannbut otherwise I wouldn't be in a rush to form a new group unless you see some benefit to that14:18
aspiersSince a testing framework needs to be able to test (ideally) *all* self-healing use cases14:18
dhellmannsure, it feels like a good fit for that group, I was just trying to understand exactly what you were asking of the tc in terms of reviewing the plan14:19
aspiersDespite an encouraging start in terms of attendance, the self-healing SIG is pretty quiet, so I'd be a bit nervous about "giving away" discussion topics to other umbrellas14:20
aspiersI could maybe do with a bit of mentoring regarding how to gain momentum14:20
dhellmannok, sure14:20
dhellmannthis all looks very organized right now, which is a good start14:21
aspiersMy original question 20 mins ago was really just for a sanity check, nothing too specific14:21
aspiersI already know I need to be quicker on following through on the actions I've submitted to storyboard14:21
dhellmannthat list of people at the bottom, have they been active somehow recently? part of the existing SIG? mailing list discussion? etc?14:21
aspiersthough that's tough with the mostly downstream day-job14:21
dhellmannyeah, momentum will come with consistent activity, even if it is small incremental steps at first14:22
aspiersNot hugely active, no14:22
dhellmannif your time is limited it sounds like you might want to find a partner to help organize things14:22
aspiersAlready done :-)14:22
aspiersEric has been great so far, super helpful14:22
dhellmann cool :-)14:22
dhellmannI see you reference a spec14:23
aspiersI guess I could lean on him a bit harder (he even offered)14:23
aspiersalthough I feel a bit guilty about doing that too much14:23
dhellmannwe haven't been using the openstack-specs repo much, so we might want to work out another place to iterate on that document14:23
dhellmannyou're stronger together; be open about the needs you have and let him pick up the work he feels able to. You might be surprised.14:24
aspiershe's already pleasantly surprised me several times :)14:24
dhellmannoh, that spec is in qa-specs, that's a better home for it14:25
aspierse.g. by proactively self-assigning tasks / stories I'd submitted in Storyboard14:25
dhellmannthat's good, then :-)14:25
aspierswhich proved the importance and value of having a shared task tracker14:25
dhellmannwhat are you planning as your next steps?14:26
dhellmannand where is that storyboard stuff going? which project?14:26
dhellmannthe review comments on the spec look like they have constructive feedback14:29
dhellmannis the next step to settle that spec, or to prototype something?14:29
aspiersyes, it's been pretty good14:29
aspiersIIUC prototyping already started last year14:30
aspiersIIRC there was a demo in Denver14:30
dhellmannaw, really, an atlassian wiki?14:30
aspiersyeah :-/14:31
aspiersit was on my TODO list to mail the list asking if that could be changed14:31
dtroyer_zzcorporate-types really eat that stuff up for breakfast, lunch and dinner.  It has become the bane of my work-life14:31
dhellmannI don't want to get too far into the weeds on importing all of this into the community-based tools, but it looks like right now the LCOO group is working off in their own garden14:32
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cdentdtroyer_zz: since I see you there, and because I know you have _so_ much free time, I'd love to see your answers to dhellmann email questions from earlier this week14:32
dtroyer_zzheh, I haven't read past the first two or three replies on any of them14:33
dtroyer_zzI'll try to get to it, right after a weeks+ of OSC reviews14:33
dhellmanncdent : yeah, dtroyer_zz has some of my code to review first and I'd rather he prioritize that ;-)14:33
aspiersdhellmann: yeah, this is one of the reasons I raised the idea of a gradual migration to something like Matrix
aspiersthough -sigs was probably the wrong list to do that on14:34
dhellmannI haven't heard of matrix before.14:34
cdentdhellmann: fair14:34
aspierscheck it out - it's pretty awesome!14:34
dhellmannI wonder if that would solve the irc spam issue14:35
aspiersdhellmann: lightning summary: the freedom and "decentralisedness" of IRC, coupled with the shininess / functionality of Slack, plus a built-in gateway to Freenode14:35
dhellmanndo users have to run their own servers? or would we run 1 and connect it to some network?14:36
dhellmannand is there a non-web based client?14:36
aspiersThere's literally no server-side setup required. I've already been using it as a freenode IRC client with built-in support for disconnected operation with history14:36
aspiersI was doing that during Sydney and Dublin on my phone and laptop14:37
aspiersYes, there are many clients14:37
aspierseven for weechat :-)14:37
dhellmannI'm really only interested in mac and ios native clients; I'll look through the list.14:37
aspiersRiot is available for iOS14:38
dhellmannlots of emphasis on reporting the language things are written in; less on where you can run them. Typical open source. :-)14:38
aspiersHaha yeah14:39
aspiersBut for a young project it already has impressive momentum14:39
aspiersI really think it has a good shot at replacing IRC14:39
mugsiere the LCOO - the closed nature was raised last year
aspiersmugsie: thanks, I guess that saves me writing a diplomatic email14:40
smcginnisaspiers: You should write a blog post about how you are using matrix with freenode.14:40
mugsieaspiers: I wouldn't discount bringing it back up14:41
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aspierssmcginnis: I almost did, and then I found one someone else had written - let me find it again14:41
smcginnisaspiers: Thanks, I would be interested in reading more.14:41
aspierssmcginnis, dhellmann:
smcginnisaspiers: Thanks!14:45
dhellmannaspiers : thanks for all of those references; I'm reading through the old emails on the LCOO threads14:45
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dhellmannit appears that the leaders got pissed off about being asked why they were doing things in a way that looks closed and then the threads petered out
mugsiedhellmann: basically, yeah14:51
aspierskudos to Jay though14:51
mugsieI was sick of sticking my head above the wall back then, so I left it14:52
dhellmannmaybe mrhillsman has more recent insights, since it's a UC thing14:52
mrhillsmanhmmm, quite a bit of backlog14:57
mugsieLCOO does not seem to open - is there a reason we let it do that?14:58
mugsieseparate slack, atlassian wiki and tracker, closed membership based on an executive decision14:58
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mugsiemrhillsman: all of my objections from still apply15:00
smcginnisOfficial officing time.15:00
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fungioh, it is15:01
fungitc-members: unite!15:01
cdentoh hi15:01
ttxFor those who missed it -- please check strawman forum schedule for conflicts15:02
* ttx fetches link15:02
cdentno conflicts, but definitely some long runs of activity15:02
cdent(which is probably fine)15:02
ttxdhellmann: they might start to suspect we are the same person15:02
cmurphyi have some tc/keystone conflicts :'(15:02
ttxcmurphy: where?15:03
dhellmannttx: in the merger, I'll share my knowledge of whiskey if you'll share you're knowledge of wine15:03
mrhillsmanmugsie dhellmann let me read as I was not UC at the time of LCOO approval15:03
cmurphyttx: thursday 1:50-3:2015:04
dhellmannmrhillsman: thanks. maybe we can follow up in a day or two, here?15:04
ttxAh, default roles15:04
dhellmannmrhillsman : or via email, whatever is easier15:04
ttxand unified limits ?15:04
mrhillsmanat least idt I was, do not recall voting on yay or nay15:04
mugsiemrhillsman: sure - we should take time on it15:04
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cmurphyttx: yep, but i'm not moderating so they can live without me15:05
ttxtrying to find a good thing to swap it with15:05
fungimugsie: mrhillsman: i completely agree on lcoo... i think i sent some mildly-incendiary replies on one of the lists a while back. andyu also tracked me down at a subsequent summit to attempt to explain the reasoning for some of that15:06
cmurphyttx: i think no matter what someone will have to miss something15:06
ttxmaybe "Planning to use placement in Cinder" on Monday15:06
mugsiefungi: yeah, I think we may have talked about in a TC meeting as well15:06
-openstackstatus- NOTICE: We've successfully troubleshooted the issue that prevented from loading and it's now back online, thank you for your patience.15:06
fungiwhile i'm nto a fan of the proprietary and somewhat exclusive tooling they've chosen, my biggest concern is that they define themselves as a working group made up of "member companies" with an "executive board" rather than individual members15:07
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dhellmannyeah, that's the most concerning part for me, too15:07
ttxarh no, that's Chris's one15:08
cdentttx it's not clean that cinder one even needs to happen. smcginnis may have thoughts on that15:09
ttxcmurphy: could swap with Cinder HA discussion15:09
smcginnisttx: Moving cinder/placement where? I should be there too.15:09
ttxsmcginnis: planning to attend that one ?15:09
smcginniscdent: I think we do need to have a discussion about it to get the cinder team going with placement.15:09
smcginnisttx: What are the conflicting sessions and slots in question?15:09
ttx(proposing swapping with one of the Cinder sessions since jbryant is easier to get an OK from)15:10
cdentsmcginnis: okay, cool with me, I just wasn't sure if we had moved far enough along or not15:10
ttxsmcginnis: swapping Default Roles (Thu 1:50pm) with Cinder HA discussion on Tuesday 11:00am)15:11
smcginniscdent: Maybe it is a little premature. It could end up being a short discussion I suppose. But I think more cinder folks need to be aware of it and start thinking about why we need it.15:11
ttx(if that works for y'all maybe cmurphy can talk jbryant into OKing the swap)15:11
cmurphylbragstad: ^15:11
cdentsmcginnis: yeah, I agree. Might just be a slightly different discussion than I was initially thinking  (at time a: how we gonna do this thing?, time b: what is this thing we might do?)15:12
ttxcmurphy: or reply to the ML post announcing the schedule  pointing to the conflict and my proposed solution15:12
smcginnisttx: That looks like it should be OK for me.15:12
cmurphyttx: okay sure15:12
smcginniscdent: Yeah. I know there is a spec out there now that is getting pushback that it should use placement. So I guess it depends how the team prioritizes that.15:13
ttxthen make sure jbryant +1s it15:13
smcginnisjbryant == jungleboyj ?15:13
* lbragstad parses scrollback15:13
cmurphylbragstad: forum scheduling15:13
jungleboyjDid someone say my name?15:13
ttxjungleboyj: cmurphy has a forum conflict we are trying to solve15:14
lbragstadcmurphy: oh - the back-to-back sessions on thursday15:14
ttxso we propose swapping Default Roles (Thu 1:50pm) with Cinder HA discussion on Tuesday 11:00am)15:14
mrhillsmanttx connection refused15:15
mrhillsmannot sure if we pulled it since schedule is up but someone mentioned it so passing along msg15:15
ttxmrhillsman: yes I killed it as people were still submitting15:15
jungleboyjttx Ok.  I haven't looked at the schedule yet.  Let me pull it up.15:15
mrhillsmanok cool15:15
lbragstadthe swap works with my schedule and doesn't conflict with any other keystone talks i know about15:16
smcginnisjungleboyj: I think it looks ok.15:17
jungleboyjWhat is the change cmurphy  ?15:18
cdentdhellmann: did you already have some ideas on how to turn the ideas and enthusiasm produced by your emails into actions? Or is that something we should plan a planning meeting for?15:19
cmurphyjungleboyj: ttx | so we propose swapping Default Roles (Thu 1:50pm) with Cinder HA discussion on Tuesday 11:00am)15:19
* smcginnis has to go be an airport shuttle for a bit15:19
jungleboyjcmurphy:  Thanks.15:19
dhellmanncdent : I (or someone) need to go through and summarize the responses still so that may be something to discuss next week after the election is settled and we've had time to do that15:20
jungleboyjsmcginnis:  Could you cover that session on Thursday if we make that change?15:20
jungleboyjI need to leave late morning Thursday.15:20
cdentdhellmann: cool. I think there was a great deal of good stuff in there that I'd hate to see float away. I'll be gone next week but when I'm back, even if not elected, I'd like to help out with that.15:21
ttxjungleboyj: probably not, he needs to be on that TC session too15:21
dhellmanncdent : great, I'll count on your help15:21
cmurphyjungleboyj: in that case that sounds like a bad swap15:21
ttxjungleboyj: we should find something else to swap with then15:21
jungleboyj:-(  Yeah.15:21
dhellmannI do have it on my todo list to prepare that summary15:21
jungleboyjcmurphy:  Sorry.15:22
cmurphyno worries :)15:22
* cmurphy is convinced this is an unsolvable problem15:22
lbragstadjust a super hard puzzle15:22
ttxSwap with Manila Ops feedback on Monday 11:3515:22
dhellmanncmurphy : we'll just hold 2 sessions in the same room so you can participate in both15:23
* jungleboyj has faith that this community can solve any problem. ;-)15:23
* TheJulia is with jungleboyj on this one15:23
ttxyou need to get Tom Barron's +115:23
cmurphydhellmann: why stop there, let's hold all sessions in the same room15:23
lbragstaddhellmann: +115:23
cmurphyproblem solved15:23
dhellmanncmurphy : that's some thought leadering you're doing there15:23
* jungleboyj high fives TheJulia 15:24
ttxcmurphy: if you can convince Tom Barron to +1 it, swap with Manila Ops feedback on Monday 11:3515:25
ttxNothing runs against it except Forum 10115:25
cmurphyttx: okay will ask15:26
* dhellmann reviews the forum schedule and goes to change all of the conference sessions he found interesting from "scheduled" to "watch later"15:26
ttxcmurphy: once OKayed, post the suggestion on the ML and I'll make it happen if nobody screams15:26
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cmurphyoh tbarron is in this channel, tbarron: thoughts? ^15:27
tbarroncmurphy: give me a sec, running upstream manila community meeting ...15:28
cmurphytbarron: no hurry15:28
tbarroncmurphy: what's the proposed time for the swap?  I'll ask ...15:28
cmurphytbarron: Thursday 1:50-2:3015:29
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dhellmannwhile we wait to hear about that, maybe we should do some housekeeping on our topic list:
dhellmannare there any items on the list that folks think are resolved or otherwise no longer interesting?15:36
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dhellmannttx imported tasks into storyboard; do we want to keep that item to talk about how it's going? or is it done?15:36
cdentfoss backstage is sort of a too late now, isn't it?15:37
dhellmannthat one is, but the more general topic of meeting up at some event that is not an openstack event could still be considered15:37
dhellmannmaybe we should update that item to reflect that15:37
zanebis the kolla/kolla-k8s/openstack-helm tire fire under control now?15:38
dhellmannmy understanding on that was the folks involved had come to an agreement about how to deal with kolla-k8s but that we still wanted to talk about whether to press the kolla team to split the image tools and the deployment tools into separate projects15:39
dhellmannI believe we're expecting to be updated to retire kolla-k8s as part of that outcome, right?15:40
zanebthat was my assuption, yeah15:41
dhellmannI just opened!/story/2001923 to deal with the PTL email address thing. I can't imagine any reason not to show them now. Does someone want to work on that code change?15:41
fungisince i proposed it, i'm happy to submit that change15:42
ttxdhellmann: yeah that's done15:42
dhellmannfungi : assigned15:43
fungii assigned it to myself a few moments before you15:43
fungibut yes, thanks15:43
dhellmannfungi : ah, ok15:43
dhellmannttx: which?15:44
dhellmannoh, the storyboard import15:44
fungittx: mrhillsman: i expect we should retitle the "adjutant official project status" session based on the comment thread for that proposal15:44
dhellmanngood call15:45
fungii can't get to any longer, but can probably remember enough of the prose i added to come up with a more suitable title15:45
dhellmannclarkb : what is the status of the "devstack virtualenv" topic? do you still need TC input on that?15:46
ttxfungi: I'm happy to provide you with the original details15:46
fungimugsie seemed to be in agreement that we would be better off using that time to discuss red flag items we've encountered in new project applications which aren't explicitly covered in our guidelines15:46
dhellmannI liked that direction change, too15:47
tbarroncmurphy: sorry to be slow, the swap is fine15:47
mugsieyeah - I think re-titling is a good idea15:47
mugsieI will have to run at the end of it though, I have a talk 10 mins after it finishes15:47
cmurphytbarron: great, thank you!15:48
mrhillsman+1 from me15:48
mrhillsmanmakes sense15:48
dhellmannit would be good to have some more input on the python 2/3 thread before the forum, too:
clarkbdhellmann: its still outstanding as far as whether or not we want to move forward with it. corvus had said he would write up an email to the original thread explaining why he thinks it is a reasonable plan forward15:48
dhellmannclarkb : ok, so we're waiting for that thread?15:48
clarkbdhellmann: ya I think that will eb the revive discussion email and we can take it from there15:48
dhellmannsounds good, thanks15:49
corvusclarkb, dhellmann: what now?15:50
cdentif the adjutant topic goes more genric does it end up overlapping with the "project applications/what is openstack" topic?15:50
clarkbcorvus: devstack virtualenv, iirc after our last infra meeting you emntioned you would send email to the dev list saying why you thought it was a good idea?15:51
dhellmanncorvus : clarkb had asked the TC for input about the plan to make devstack use a virtualenv to deal with pip 1015:51
corvusclarkb, dhellmann: yes! that i will do, thanks.15:51
dhellmanncdent : oh, well spotted. Maybe we should drop the Adjutant session from the schedule15:52
dhellmanncorvus : thank you15:52
cdentdhellmann: we could go two hours on the general topic, I'm sure15:52
cdentor at least drink some coffee15:52
dhellmanncdent : we could, and maybe we ought to, since it keeps coming up15:53
dhellmannthough by that time on thursday we may all just sit in a room and stare at each other blankly15:53
corvusaspiers: you should definitely bring up matrix with the infra folk.  i've run my own homeserver for about a year now.  :)15:54
aspierscorvus: nice :) thing is, infra wouldn't even need to host a server, just like (AFAIK) we don't run a Freenode server15:56
ttxdhellmann: I'll admit I placed it at the last spot since it sounded "droppable"15:56
aspiersalthough I think the Matrix initiative could definitely use some corporate sponsorship15:56
* dhellmann nods15:56
* smcginnis finishes scrollback15:56
ttxdhellmann: I still like the idea of having time to discuss next steps there15:56
ttxOur brains should be mush anyway15:57
dhellmannok. it seems unlikely we'd make any real conclusions about the application without their team being represented, but settling next steps seems doable15:57
ttxcmurphy: don't forget to propose the swap to the ML, so that everyone else is in the loop before we change it15:59
cmurphyttx: proposing it in -keystone first15:59
* ttx does 4 things at the same time15:59
ttxI may not make a lot of sense16:00
* dhellmann stops doing anything other than going to lunch16:00
* ttx should get some fresh air for a bit16:00
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