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| clarkb | is now the office hours? | 01:00 |
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| EmilienM | it's the time indeed | 01:19 |
| clarkb | I was just going to try and be around re pip10 and devstack and virtualenvs if people wanted to talk about it but dinner is now almost ready | 01:20 |
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| dims | o/ | 12:25 |
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| fungi | wow, clarkb showed up for office hour and i forgot (again) | 13:48 |
| smcginnis | You really missed a lot too. | 13:51 |
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| TheJulia | Good morning | 14:38 |
| cdent | o/ | 14:40 |
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| ttx | News from the Forum selection committee: we were able to accept most proposed sessions. A strawman schedule shall be posted today to the MLs for crowdsourced conflict detection | 14:51 |
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| ttx | We have an extra room free of scheduling on Tue, Wed, Thu, which can be used to schedule follow-up sessions | 14:52 |
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| clarkb | fungi: I was sitting outside with the grill and then eating burgers so I was more than happy to focus on food :) | 14:56 |
| fungi | heh | 14:57 |
| cmurphy | it's tough being clarkb | 14:57 |
| fungi | i was watching an excellent documentary about nasa's voyager missions, and lost track of time | 14:58 |
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| smcginnis | fungi: You might like this - when I was in Chicago last weekend I went to the planetarium and they have the actual Gemini 12 capsule. | 15:07 |
| fungi | ooh! | 15:08 |
| smcginnis | It was pretty cool. Got to see inside and up close. | 15:09 |
| clarkb | cmurphy: it was our first hot day, it needed burger grilling to happen | 15:09 |
| fungi | as a kid i always used to marvel at the mercury capsule at the national naval aviation museum in pensacola | 15:11 |
| smcginnis | That would be cool to see too. Gemini 12 wasn't much more spacious. | 15:13 |
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| fungi | dhellmann: i know you mentioned not long ago wanting to look into doing rss feeds of our mailing lists. not sure if you've seen https://pypi.org/project/mailman-rss/ but i found it just now when looking around | 16:05 |
| fungi | apparently has twitter support too | 16:05 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yeah, I did find that. I was looking for something that would let us curate what went into the feed | 16:06 |
| dhellmann | that didn't seem to do so | 16:06 |
| dhellmann | I built a hacky script to do what I want, just to see what the results look like | 16:07 |
| fungi | dhellmann: ahh, cool. i agree that one is just vomiting everything from the ml into rss (and/or tweets) | 16:08 |
| dhellmann | the feed itself is ok, but the tool doesn't scale horizontally well so it would still rely on 1 curator | 16:08 |
| dhellmann | ttx was going to ask some communications professionals at the foundation for their advice on alternative approaches to the underlying problem | 16:09 |
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| fungi | an interesting voter case has arisen | 19:13 |
| fungi | one of the cyborg contributors e-mailed requesting a ballot | 19:13 |
| fungi | they didn't get one because they weren't a foundation member | 19:14 |
| fungi | they created a foundation member account ~9 hours ago (today) | 19:14 |
| fungi | presumably after realizing that's why they didn't get a ballot for the tc election | 19:14 |
| smcginnis | That's clearly out of our electorate per what we had published, right? | 19:17 |
| fungi | it's technically not, at least not according to https://governance.openstack.org/election/#electorate | 19:29 |
| fungi | the timeframes we mention are specific to when contributions are made | 19:29 |
| fungi | they have to be foundation individual members prior to voting, per our bylaws, i think | 19:30 |
| cdent | that is an interesting wrinkle | 19:30 |
| smcginnis | It does say right up front: "The electorate for this election are the Foundation individual members that are also committers" | 19:30 |
| smcginnis | And I think that is what was emailed a few times in the recent past. | 19:31 |
| fungi | we (election officials) are discussing updating the wording on the election page to make it clear they must have their foundation membership established and using an e-mail address common to their gerrit account prior to when we plan to generate the rolls | 19:31 |
| fungi | right now we only tell them to make sure their gerrit e-mail address is current before that cut-off | 19:31 |
| smcginnis | I wonder how many contributors fall outside that venn diagram. | 19:31 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, probably would be good to call out "make sure you are a member" | 19:32 |
| cdent | would it make sense to say "foundation members when they committed to official projects in pike queens"? | 19:32 |
| cdent | right now the time part is not in the boolean | 19:32 |
| fungi | cdent: that's unforuntately also harder for us to check | 19:32 |
| cdent | ah, fair point | 19:32 |
| * cdent goes back to "interesting wrinkle" | 19:33 | |
| fungi | since we'd need to somehow track lapses in membership and line those up to when commits landed, or something | 19:33 |
| smcginnis | Or good enough if they are a foundation member by the cutoff date, regardless what they were when they became a committer. | 19:33 |
| smcginnis | fungi: I assume you need a specific date or range where you can extract the valid electorate. | 19:33 |
| fungi | right now what the foundation member system tells us is when they created their profile (which isn't even necessarily when they joined the foundation i don't think), when they last updated information in their profile, and whether they're a foundation member right this moment | 19:33 |
| fungi | so basically, yes, we want them to be a foundation member at the time we generate the rolls | 19:34 |
| fungi | which ideally happens up to several days prior to the start of the election | 19:35 |
| fungi | this time we made the cut-off for updating your e-mail address the end of saturday, and the election started at the end of monday | 19:35 |
| fungi | though the rolls we used in this case were in fact generated earlier on monday so not as far in advance as we set the cut-off | 19:36 |
| dtroyer_zz | In most parts (in the US at least) voter registration is cut of some period of time before the election. (And as soon as I say that someone will post a counter-example) what fungi describes is totally consistent with common practice, do we just need to make it clearer? | 19:37 |
| fungi | i think so, yes | 19:37 |
| fungi | the reason i bring it up is that i'm leaning toward granting the individual a ballot in this particular circumstance, but for future elections making it clear it's not something we're going to support | 19:37 |
| dtroyer_zz | that seems reasonable | 19:38 |
| fungi | since teh officials need to be able to not be expected to generate one-off ballots throughout the election week any time someone asks | 19:38 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, seems OK to me since we maybe could have been more explicit about that. | 19:38 |
| fungi | as they _are_ a semi-long-time contributor (multiple changes merged to cyborg over the course of eth qualifying cycles) it's not like this is something exploitable | 19:39 |
| fungi | and the foundation membership requirement is mostly just to cover us as far as compliance with bylaws | 19:40 |
| fungi | so as long as we can call this due diligence it seems fair | 19:40 |
| * cdent nods | 19:42 | |
| dims | +1 fungi | 19:43 |
| dims | ("semi-long-time contributor") | 19:43 |
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| dhellmann | fungi : don't they need a foundation membership in order to sign the CLA to submit patches? | 20:01 |
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| dhellmann | but yeah, I agree that it makes sense to give them a ballot | 20:01 |
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| fungi | dhellmann: they do not need a foundation membership to agree to the icla, no | 20:03 |
| fungi | that changed about a year ago | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | ah, ok | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | I thought that was all tied together | 20:04 |
| fungi | when we switched to just checking candidate and voter eligibility with the member database lookup api (once the foundation added that) | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | ok | 20:04 |
| fungi | as elections were the only reason we previously used the "contactinfo" feature of gerrit to ping a validation api on the foundation site with their gerrit e-mail address | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | it has been 6 years since I signed the CLA, so I don't remember how that worked then much less how it works now | 20:06 |
| fungi | there's no explicit requirement in the bylaws that contributors be foundation members, and so we were adding a technical requirement that they do that purely for the convenience of election process | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | ah | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | that part sounds vaguely familiar | 20:06 |
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| fungi | also, gerrit dropped that "contactinfo" feature around 2.12 or 2.13 so we would have needed to come up with an alternative solution anyway | 20:07 |
| fungi | yeah, hopefully it sounds familiar http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-July/119786.html ;) | 20:08 |
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| dhellmann | do you still have stickers for those of us who read the whole email? :-) | 20:09 |
| fungi | i do! | 20:11 |
| fungi | i keep bringing a (steadily shrinking) stack of them to summits and ptgs | 20:11 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | dhellmann: Openstack 'I voted' stickers? Or 'I read things' stickers? | 20:11 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | fungi: what stickers are these? | 20:11 |
| fungi | we should totoally have "i voted" stickers | 20:12 |
| fungi | diablo_rojo_phon: infra team mascot stickers (red velvet ant) | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | diablo_rojo_phon : oh, we should totally have I voted stickers! | 20:12 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | Have the o in voted be the Openstack logo | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | I may already have an ant, but I can always use anotehr | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | diablo_rojo_phon : unleash your inner graphic designer | 20:12 |
| fungi | though i bequeathed the majority of my back stock of infra stickers to clarkb as part of his new ptl welcome packet ;) | 20:12 |
| fungi | i held onto a few dozen just in case i ran into people | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | heh, we just gave smcginnis a todo list | 20:13 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | dhellmann: I actually used to do a lot of design stuff in high school and college :) | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | diablo_rojo_phon : I should have gotten you to help me make stickers for dublin. I may hit you up for help before Denver rolls around. | 20:13 |
| fungi | same here. thought for years i was going to have a career as a graphic designer | 20:13 |
| smcginnis | I might try to whip up something if I can find time or need a distraction. :) | 20:14 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | Same :) | 20:14 |
| fungi | and then decided it was a lot of hassle, whereas if i did computers people would let me get away with just about anything | 20:14 |
| smcginnis | Art school drop out here. | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | I hoped that lots of people would have fun designing commemorative stickers for the PTG | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | or at least design them so others could have fun, like I did ;-) | 20:14 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | I wanted to not live in a box.. and eat food.. so I went for the more lucrative option. | 20:15 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | dhellmann: I think we have Wes designing 'I survived snowpenstack' stickers for Denver. | 20:15 |
| smcginnis | ++ | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | aw, it's more fun if the community does it | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | everyone should make their own! | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | we can have a sticker swap | 20:16 |
| smcginnis | diablo_rojo_phon: I need to find me new classical Cinder logo. | 20:16 |
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| diablo_rojo_phon | dhellmann: GameNight + Sticker Swap | 20:20 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | smcginnis: print more? Did you use them all? | 20:20 |
| * dhellmann pictures a poker table with a bunch of stickers as the pot | 20:21 | |
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| smcginnis | diablo_rojo_phon: Yeah, I only got a small sampler pack, so they're all gone. | 20:22 |
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| fungi | diablo_rojo_phon: i wasn't actually dissuaded by the starving artist problem (which granted is worse for fine artists than graphic artists, who can often find fairly decent pay), but more because i got familiar with the sorts of internal politics which plague advertising agencies and decided i was not compatible with that | 20:27 |
| fungi | so i ended up as a draftsman instead | 20:28 |
| fungi | ooh, sticker swap sounds like fun | 20:29 |
| fungi | i have a stack of death wish coffee stickers because they send them to me with every bag i order. been holding onto those not sure what i was going to eventually do with them | 20:29 |
| diablo_rojo | I bet there are people that would love those stickers :) | 20:30 |
| fungi | i mean, i used a few to decorate my bean canister and whatnot, but am overrun | 20:30 |
| fungi | yeah, they'd likely be popular | 20:31 |
| fungi | everyone loves a jolly roger with coffee beans | 20:31 |
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| zaneb | fungi: fwiw I think it's https://www.openstack.org/legal/technical-committee-member-policy/ that counts, not https://governance.openstack.org/election/#electorate | 21:09 |
| zaneb | that said, it isn't any clearer in my reading | 21:09 |
| fungi | zaneb: right, i'm suggesting that issuing a ballot in this case doesn't conflict with the tc member policy (not tc charter, which also has some prose about these things) and that election officials should clarify _their_ requirements for managing the election logistics (so long as those also don't conflict with either the tc member policy nor charter) | 21:11 |
| zaneb | doubly confusing because they accidentally switched the words "Individual Member" and "ATC" in 3.(b)(i) by the looks of it | 21:11 |
| fungi | er, issuing a ballot in this case doesn't conflict with the tc member policy (nor tc charter) | 21:12 |
| fungi | zaneb: yes, i've asked the foundation executives on multiple occasions what would be involved in correcting that and never gotten a straight answer | 21:12 |
| fungi | it's technically not part of the bylaws, so i don't expect it to require a foundation member vote | 21:13 |
| fungi | probably just a board motion, or maybe even the executive director can just do it | 21:13 |
| fungi | but it's been annoying me (and others) since circa 2012 | 21:14 |
| fungi | i'll ask again | 21:17 |
| zaneb | for some reason I picture a dead goat and a lot of chanting being involved | 21:17 |
| fungi | oh, so you've *been* to a board meeting! ;) | 21:18 |
| zaneb | lol | 21:18 |
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