Wednesday, 2018-04-25

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clarkbis now the office hours?01:00
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EmilienMit's the time indeed01:19
clarkbI was just going to try and be around re pip10 and devstack and virtualenvs if people wanted to talk about it but dinner is now almost ready01:20
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fungiwow, clarkb showed up for office hour and i forgot (again)13:48
smcginnisYou really missed a lot too.13:51
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TheJuliaGood morning14:38
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ttxNews from the Forum selection committee: we were able to accept most proposed sessions. A strawman schedule shall be posted today to the MLs for crowdsourced conflict detection14:51
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ttxWe have an extra room free of scheduling on Tue, Wed, Thu, which can be used to schedule follow-up sessions14:52
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clarkbfungi: I was sitting outside with the grill and then eating burgers so I was more than happy to focus on food :)14:56
cmurphyit's tough being clarkb14:57
fungii was watching an excellent documentary about nasa's voyager missions, and lost track of time14:58
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smcginnisfungi: You might like this - when I was in Chicago last weekend I went to the planetarium and they have the actual Gemini 12 capsule.15:07
smcginnisIt was pretty cool. Got to see inside and up close.15:09
clarkbcmurphy: it was our first hot day, it needed burger grilling to happen15:09
fungias a kid i always used to marvel at the mercury capsule at the national naval aviation museum in pensacola15:11
smcginnisThat would be cool to see too. Gemini 12 wasn't much more spacious.15:13
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fungidhellmann: i know you mentioned not long ago wanting to look into doing rss feeds of our mailing lists. not sure if you've seen but i found it just now when looking around16:05
fungiapparently has twitter support too16:05
dhellmannfungi : yeah, I did find that. I was looking for something that would let us curate what went into the feed16:06
dhellmannthat didn't seem to do so16:06
dhellmannI built a hacky script to do what I want, just to see what the results look like16:07
fungidhellmann: ahh, cool. i agree that one is just vomiting everything from the ml into rss (and/or tweets)16:08
dhellmannthe feed itself is ok, but the tool doesn't scale horizontally well so it would still rely on 1 curator16:08
dhellmannttx was going to ask some communications professionals at the foundation for their advice on alternative approaches to the underlying problem16:09
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fungian interesting voter case has arisen19:13
fungione of the cyborg contributors e-mailed requesting a ballot19:13
fungithey didn't get one because they weren't a foundation member19:14
fungithey created a foundation member account ~9 hours ago (today)19:14
fungipresumably after realizing that's why they didn't get a ballot for the tc election19:14
smcginnisThat's clearly out of our electorate per what we had published, right?19:17
fungiit's technically not, at least not according to
fungithe timeframes we mention are specific to when contributions are made19:29
fungithey have to be foundation individual members prior to voting, per our bylaws, i think19:30
cdentthat is an interesting wrinkle19:30
smcginnisIt does say right up front: "The electorate for this election are the Foundation individual members that are also committers"19:30
smcginnisAnd I think that is what was emailed a few times in the recent past.19:31
fungiwe (election officials) are discussing updating the wording on the election page to make it clear they must have their foundation membership established and using an e-mail address common to their gerrit account prior to when we plan to generate the rolls19:31
fungiright now we only tell them to make sure their gerrit e-mail address is current before that cut-off19:31
smcginnisI wonder how many contributors fall outside that venn diagram.19:31
smcginnisYeah, probably would be good to call out "make sure you are a member"19:32
cdentwould it make sense to say "foundation members when they committed to official projects in pike queens"?19:32
cdentright now the time part is not in the boolean19:32
fungicdent: that's unforuntately also harder for us to check19:32
cdentah, fair point19:32
* cdent goes back to "interesting wrinkle"19:33
fungisince we'd need to somehow track lapses in membership and line those up to when commits landed, or something19:33
smcginnisOr good enough if they are a foundation member by the cutoff date, regardless what they were when they became a committer.19:33
smcginnisfungi: I assume you need a specific date or range where you can extract the valid electorate.19:33
fungiright now what the foundation member system tells us is when they created their profile (which isn't even necessarily when they joined the foundation i don't think), when they last updated information in their profile, and whether they're a foundation member right this moment19:33
fungiso basically, yes, we want them to be a foundation member at the time we generate the rolls19:34
fungiwhich ideally happens up to several days prior to the start of the election19:35
fungithis time we made the cut-off for updating your e-mail address the end of saturday, and the election started at the end of monday19:35
fungithough the rolls we used in this case were in fact generated earlier on monday so not as far in advance as we set the cut-off19:36
dtroyer_zzIn most parts (in the US at least) voter registration is cut of some period of time before the election.  (And as soon as I say that someone will post a counter-example)  what fungi describes is totally consistent with common practice, do we just need to make it clearer?19:37
fungii think so, yes19:37
fungithe reason i bring it up is that i'm leaning toward granting the individual a ballot in this particular circumstance, but for future elections making it clear it's not something we're going to support19:37
dtroyer_zzthat seems reasonable19:38
fungisince teh officials need to be able to not be expected to generate one-off ballots throughout the election week any time someone asks19:38
smcginnisYeah, seems OK to me since we maybe could have been more explicit about that.19:38
fungias they _are_ a semi-long-time contributor (multiple changes merged to cyborg over the course of eth qualifying cycles) it's not like this is something exploitable19:39
fungiand the foundation membership requirement is mostly just to cover us as far as compliance with bylaws19:40
fungiso as long as we can call this due diligence it seems fair19:40
* cdent nods19:42
dims+1 fungi19:43
dims("semi-long-time contributor")19:43
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dhellmannfungi : don't they need a foundation membership in order to sign the CLA to submit patches?20:01
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dhellmannbut yeah, I agree that it makes sense to give them a ballot20:01
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fungidhellmann: they do not need a foundation membership to agree to the icla, no20:03
fungithat changed about a year ago20:03
dhellmannah, ok20:04
dhellmannI thought that was all tied together20:04
fungiwhen we switched to just checking candidate and voter eligibility with the member database lookup api (once the foundation added that)20:04
fungias elections were the only reason we previously used the "contactinfo" feature of gerrit to ping a validation api on the foundation site with their gerrit e-mail address20:05
dhellmannit has been 6 years since I signed the CLA, so I don't remember how that worked then much less how it works now20:06
fungithere's no explicit requirement in the bylaws that contributors be foundation members, and so we were adding a technical requirement that they do that purely for the convenience of election process20:06
dhellmannthat part sounds vaguely familiar20:06
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fungialso, gerrit dropped that "contactinfo" feature around 2.12 or 2.13 so we would have needed to come up with an alternative solution anyway20:07
fungiyeah, hopefully it sounds familiar ;)20:08
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dhellmanndo you still have stickers for those of us who read the whole email? :-)20:09
fungii do!20:11
fungii keep bringing a (steadily shrinking) stack of them to summits and ptgs20:11
diablo_rojo_phondhellmann: Openstack 'I voted' stickers? Or 'I read things' stickers?20:11
diablo_rojo_phonfungi: what stickers are these?20:11
fungiwe should totoally have "i voted" stickers20:12
fungidiablo_rojo_phon: infra team mascot stickers (red velvet ant)20:12
dhellmanndiablo_rojo_phon : oh, we should totally have I voted stickers!20:12
diablo_rojo_phonHave the o in voted be the Openstack logo20:12
dhellmannI may already have an ant, but I can always use anotehr20:12
dhellmanndiablo_rojo_phon : unleash your inner graphic designer20:12
fungithough i bequeathed the majority of my back stock of infra stickers to clarkb as part of his new ptl welcome packet ;)20:12
fungii held onto a few dozen just in case i ran into people20:13
dhellmannheh, we just gave smcginnis a todo list20:13
diablo_rojo_phondhellmann: I actually used to do a lot of design stuff in high school and college :)20:13
dhellmanndiablo_rojo_phon : I should have gotten you to help me make stickers for dublin. I may hit you up for help before Denver rolls around.20:13
fungisame here. thought for years i was going to have a career as a graphic designer20:13
smcginnisI might try to whip up something if I can find time or need a distraction. :)20:14
diablo_rojo_phonSame :)20:14
fungiand then decided it was a lot of hassle, whereas if i did computers people would let me get away with just about anything20:14
smcginnisArt school drop out here.20:14
dhellmannI hoped that lots of people would have fun designing commemorative stickers for the PTG20:14
dhellmannor at least design them so others could have fun, like I did ;-)20:14
diablo_rojo_phonI wanted to not live in a box.. and eat food.. so I went for the more lucrative option.20:15
diablo_rojo_phondhellmann: I think we have Wes designing 'I survived snowpenstack' stickers for Denver.20:15
dhellmannaw, it's more fun if the community does it20:16
dhellmanneveryone should make their own!20:16
dhellmannwe can have a sticker swap20:16
smcginnisdiablo_rojo_phon: I need to find me new classical Cinder logo.20:16
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diablo_rojo_phondhellmann: GameNight + Sticker Swap20:20
diablo_rojo_phonsmcginnis: print more? Did you use them all?20:20
* dhellmann pictures a poker table with a bunch of stickers as the pot20:21
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smcginnisdiablo_rojo_phon: Yeah, I only got a small sampler pack, so they're all gone.20:22
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fungidiablo_rojo_phon: i wasn't actually dissuaded by the starving artist problem (which granted is worse for fine artists than graphic artists, who can often find fairly decent pay), but more because i got familiar with the sorts of internal politics which plague advertising agencies and decided i was not compatible with that20:27
fungiso i ended up as a draftsman instead20:28
fungiooh, sticker swap sounds like fun20:29
fungii have a stack of death wish coffee stickers because they send them to me with every bag i order. been holding onto those not sure what i was going to eventually do with them20:29
diablo_rojoI bet there are people that would love those stickers :)20:30
fungii mean, i used a few to decorate my bean canister and whatnot, but am overrun20:30
fungiyeah, they'd likely be popular20:31
fungieveryone loves a jolly roger with coffee beans20:31
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zanebfungi: fwiw I think it's that counts, not
zanebthat said, it isn't any clearer in my reading21:09
fungizaneb: right, i'm suggesting that issuing a ballot in this case doesn't conflict with the tc member policy (not tc charter, which also has some prose about these things) and that election officials should clarify _their_ requirements for managing the election logistics (so long as those also don't conflict with either the tc member policy nor charter)21:11
zanebdoubly confusing because they accidentally switched the words "Individual Member" and "ATC" in 3.(b)(i) by the looks of it21:11
fungier, issuing a ballot in this case doesn't conflict with the tc member policy (nor tc charter)21:12
fungizaneb: yes, i've asked the foundation executives on multiple occasions what would be involved in correcting that and never gotten a straight answer21:12
fungiit's technically not part of the bylaws, so i don't expect it to require a foundation member vote21:13
fungiprobably just a board motion, or maybe even the executive director can just do it21:13
fungibut it's been annoying me (and others) since circa 201221:14
fungii'll ask again21:17
zanebfor some reason I picture a dead goat and a lot of chanting being involved21:17
fungioh, so you've *been* to a board meeting! ;)21:18
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