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| fungi | as of when i retired the old mailing lists we were up to 460 subscribers on the -discuss ml | 01:58 |
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| mtreinish | fungi: what was the sum of subscribers on the retired lists? | 02:18 |
| mtreinish | presumably more than 400 | 02:18 |
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| eandersson | Is there a way we can reduce the number of duplicate efforts when it comes to minor changes (e.g. dev -> discussion change)? | 03:32 |
| zaneb | eandersson: I'm sure there is, but would it be worth it? | 03:39 |
| eandersson | Well, for this one case, probably not :p | 03:39 |
| eandersson | but I feel like it's a pretty reoccurring theme. | 03:41 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam Mann proposed openstack/governance master: Add more clarity on TC chair term https://review.openstack.org/621498 | 04:03 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/governance master: Explicitly declare Stein supported runtimes https://review.openstack.org/611080 | 04:24 |
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| gmann | TC office hour time.. | 09:00 |
| ttx | I'm here, just not caffeinated yet | 09:00 |
| ttx | Quick note that I'll do a new pass on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/role-of-the-tc sometimes today, so if you have comments, please add them now :) | 09:01 |
| gmann | +1 | 09:02 |
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| ttx | office hours have been lightly attended lately, and seem to be failing as a forum to ask questions (people just ask on the channel, no need for office hours). I'm wondering if running 3 per week does not dilute their perceived importance | 09:11 |
| ttx | (although I don't mind making an extra effort to hang out here at designated times in the week) | 09:14 |
| ttx | It's just that given how many questions we got from non-members during office hours so far (not sure we even got one), holding 3 of those per week feels a bit overkill :) | 09:15 |
| gmann | i think as long as TC members (not all obviously) are available on particular time, it is good. but i also think 2 times in a week covering all TZ (Asia + USA + EU) is sufficient. | 09:16 |
| gmann | 2 is ok seems. Wednesday and Thursday one | 09:16 |
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| lbragstad | ttx might be a good topic for the next meeting? | 09:30 |
| lbragstad | i imagine it's too late to amend it to the schedule for thursday since dhellmann already sent out the schedule? | 09:32 |
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| ttx | probably yes | 09:36 |
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| openstackgerrit | Lance Bragstad proposed openstack/governance master: Update charter to include PTL appointment https://review.openstack.org/620928 | 09:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/project-team-guide master: Reformat mailing list tags https://review.openstack.org/621574 | 11:56 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/governance master: Explicitly declare Stein supported runtimes https://review.openstack.org/611080 | 11:59 |
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| fungi | would people want to see https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/MailingListEtiquette folded into https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/open-community.html#mailing-lists or is that going to overwhelm the existing document? | 13:16 |
| cmurphy | I would be happy to see mailing list etiquette somewhere more official than a wiki | 13:16 |
| ttx | death to the wiki! | 13:17 |
| fungi | yeah, same, just wondering if that section of the open community chapter in the project team guide is the "correct" place to stick it | 13:17 |
| fungi | some of the bits in there definitely fit with the project team guide, like the suggestions to choose putting discussion on the mailing list rather than starting private e-mail conversations | 13:21 |
| dims | o/ | 13:29 |
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| cdent | ttx is there anything we should do with the https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/role-of-the-tc before tomorrow's meeting to be able to say "here's where we are on that"? | 13:59 |
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| ttx | cdent: I'm working on a new structure to include your feedback, should be ready in a few minutes | 14:09 |
| cdent | ✔ | 14:11 |
| fungi | day-after-tomorrow's meeting hopefully? | 14:14 |
| ttx | hopefully | 14:14 |
| fungi | i know i lose track of time, but i hope i haven't lost an entire day again | 14:14 |
| cdent | oops. i must be time travelling again | 14:16 |
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| cdent | It happens fairly often | 14:16 |
| ttx | OK, I rearranged the various paragraphs and incorporated feedback, I think it flows better this way. | 14:32 |
| cdent | ttx: cool, will look again in a moment | 14:32 |
| cdent | fungi: what's the latest subscription numbers on openstack-discuss? | 14:33 |
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| fungi | 493 | 14:36 |
| fungi | climbing rather steadily since utc midnight when i deleted the old lists | 14:37 |
| cdent | one would hope so | 14:39 |
| cdent | that's still lower than I hoped | 14:39 |
| cdent | I wonder how many unintended "openstack is dead" rumors this will spur? | 14:39 |
| fungi | i don't think anyone needs an excuse to spread convenient rumors | 14:50 |
| fungi | at least they don't seem to have required any in the past | 14:50 |
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| dhellmann | ttx, gmann , lbragstad : the schedule for office hours would normally be a good thing for us to include in the meeting, but I think this week's is going to be full already so let's just talk about it here or on the mailing list | 15:30 |
| ttx | ++ | 15:31 |
| ttx | I can start a thread | 15:31 |
| dhellmann | thanks | 15:31 |
| lbragstad | sounds good | 15:35 |
| ttx | ok done | 15:45 |
| dhellmann | tonyb : we could use your vote on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/621164/ when you have time | 15:47 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I was thinking about pushing https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/role-of-the-tc as a review, to trigger more specific feedback | 15:47 |
| dhellmann | I think that makes sense. TBH, I haven't read through the current draft yet. | 15:47 |
| ttx | I incorporated the first round of local feedback. | 15:47 |
| ttx | I'll wait for cdent's check that it now covers the critical missing aspect that he raised | 15:48 |
| * cdent reads now | 15:49 | |
| cdent | ttx: yeah, that description of governance is much more palatable. I'm not sure if that's how we actually act, but I do think that's how we should act | 15:51 |
| openstackgerrit | Jay Bryant proposed openstack/governance master: Change e-mail addres for Jay Bryant https://review.openstack.org/622378 | 15:52 |
| ttx | cdent: I think it describes our role. We may be fulfilling that role inadequately. | 15:52 |
| cdent | yeah | 15:53 |
| ttx | OK I'll push it as a review so we can further iterate on it and ask for wider feedback | 15:53 |
| cdent | wfm, thanks for doing all that | 15:53 |
| ttx | good enough for a base rev | 15:53 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: use self.get_team method to get repo https://review.openstack.org/621481 | 16:10 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Add more example for team_name in get_repositories https://review.openstack.org/621489 | 16:11 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Change e-mail addres for Jay Bryant https://review.openstack.org/622378 | 16:15 |
| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Document the role of the TC https://review.openstack.org/622400 | 16:22 |
| ttx | OK, let's do a round of comments on the review, then I'll raise a thread to the ML for a third round | 16:24 |
| cdent | ✔ | 16:24 |
| fungi | subscriber count on -discuss just broke 500 in the past hour | 16:49 |
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| fungi | i ended up configuring it to drop messages from non-subscribers matching ^[0-9]+@qq\.com$ because it was getting spam from them into the moderation queue on the order of a new message every few seconds. with that in place i'm seeing around 100 spam messages in the moderation queue per day, which is a bit more manageable | 16:51 |
| fungi | seeing probably a couple dozen legitimate posts from nonmembers into the moderation queue at the moment as well, mostly replies to messages from the old mailing lists | 16:52 |
| fungi | a couple dozen a day i mean | 16:53 |
| ttx | wow is there a race on who will propose the most setup.cfg openstack-discuss changes? | 17:00 |
| fungi | i had to -2 a bunch which were trying to replace mailing lists we're still actively using | 17:00 |
| cdent | easy karma | 17:00 |
| fungi | and revert one which got blindly merged | 17:01 |
| ttx | Easy stats, but negative karma | 17:01 |
| fungi | all the ones i saw were from the usual culprits at 99cloud | 17:01 |
| cdent | it's a change that has to happen, how can it be negative? | 17:01 |
| cdent | I really bristle when we get annoyed at people who fix things, even if their intentions are twisted | 17:02 |
| cdent | the fix is good | 17:02 |
| fungi | well, some of the fixes weren't because they didn't pay attention to what they were doing and/or understand what changed | 17:02 |
| ttx | cdent: when 4 people from the same company end up proposing the same 'fix'... It becomes a race that reflects negatively on them | 17:02 |
| cdent | fungi: yeah, I get that, wasn't really commenting on the early movers, just people today | 17:03 |
| cdent | ttx: meh, we took on a responsibility to separate the wheat from the chaff when we chose to be reviewers on big projects. it's a tiny price to pay | 17:03 |
| fungi | i pushed up patches to fix the cookiecutter repos (so that we avoid carrying teh old info forward) and a few high-profile governance documents but figured the rest could be changed by projects at their leisure. the old addresses still go to the new list anyway | 17:03 |
| fungi | i don't personally have a problem with someone pushing up all those edits now, other than the lack of coordination | 17:04 |
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| scas | from the peanut gallery: if the fix is additive, or corrective, it generally goes in because it fixes someone's expected outcome | 18:58 |
| scas | sure, people can to a driveby of a few repos for some upboats on stackalytics, but that's for people who care about gaming it. without changing the metric that's being gamed, i take it on a case-by-case basis | 19:00 |
| scas | plus, it's one less thing off my todo list | 19:00 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ed Leafe proposed openstack/governance master: Add os-resource-classes https://review.openstack.org/621699 | 19:13 |
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| fungi | i also find it oddly reassuring to know that i can just push a handful of important corrections for something like this and then there are folks in (for some definition of "in") the community who will go and repeat that for every possible occurrence they can dig up | 19:58 |
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| fungi | granted, they also have a tendency to go off the rails and propose incorrections, but we all push up wrong patches from time to time | 19:59 |
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