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| ttx | Threads dropped | 10:45 |
|---|---|---|
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| cdent | ttx? | 10:58 |
| * cdent figures it out | 11:03 | |
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| mnaser | it's a keyword | 15:00 |
| mnaser | anyways, hi all. | 15:00 |
| ttx | hi! | 15:01 |
| mnaser | so i hate to drag this conversation into this, but we know the summit is planned for shanghai (yay, excited) | 15:02 |
| mnaser | but i guess so will the ptg.. or not confirmed yet? | 15:02 |
| ttx | Not confirmed yet. we want to do some analysis first to see ho many days we'd need there | 15:03 |
| ttx | We need that first before announcing specific days :) | 15:04 |
| smcginnis | tc-members office hours ping | 15:05 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 15:05 |
| evrardjp | forgot to say hi but I am here :) | 15:05 |
| * lbragstad is multi-tasking currently | 15:05 | |
| mnaser | ttx: cool, that's pretty exciting | 15:05 |
| ttx | dhellmann: aren't you in PTO? | 15:05 |
| dhellmann | ttx: cancelled due to illness | 15:05 |
| dhellmann | or rescheduled, rather | 15:05 |
| dims | o/ | 15:06 |
| ttx | ah, sorry to hear that | 15:06 |
| dhellmann | this year's flu is *harsh* | 15:06 |
| dhellmann | did anyone have questions about the agenda items for the meeting next week? I realize that the email was a bit sparse | 15:06 |
| smcginnis | Given the current political climate, I am a little concerned how many contributors would be able to make it to a PTG in Shanghai. | 15:07 |
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| smcginnis | dhellmann: Nothing stood out to me as missing or our of place. | 15:07 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis: I share that concern :-/ | 15:07 |
| ttx | smcginnis: it's difficult to predict what the situation willbe like in November, but I understand | 15:07 |
| smcginnis | Yes, true. | 15:08 |
| ttx | like if you had told me we would be where we are 10 months ago... | 15:08 |
| mnaser | in a really odd and weird way, i think this might be a good exercise to know how some of our zte contributors might have felt not long ago, i guess. | 15:08 |
| mnaser | i don't think it'll be too problematic (coming from a canadian, hah) | 15:09 |
| smcginnis | hah | 15:09 |
| mnaser | btw, this is a cool article i'd love to share when we get closer to the summit | 15:10 |
| mnaser | https://paranoidbeavers.ca/travel-laptop-setup.html | 15:10 |
| mnaser | konstantin (mricon) does a lot of security stuff for the LF and it's a pretty awesome guide | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | we didn't go to quite those lengths, but did take separate laptops when we went to hong kong | 15:12 |
| ttx | Would love feedback on the two threads I started on the ML | 15:12 |
| ttx | although ideally you would post any lengthy answer on the thread :) | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | I like the idea of having formal short-term teams, although I wonder if we couldn't just use the SIG mechanism for them instead of creating a separate thing. | 15:13 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I really like the idea of documenting scope and disband criteria | 15:14 |
| ttx | so the documentation required for a $thing is different than from a SIG | 15:14 |
| ttx | But we could call them short-term SIG or whatever | 15:14 |
| dhellmann | what sort of criteria do you see for disbanding? isn't that just "we're done with the work we set out to do?" | 15:15 |
| ttx | dhellmann: example at https://github.com/kubernetes/community/tree/master/wg-k8s-infra | 15:16 |
| ttx | err | 15:16 |
| ttx | https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/wg-k8s-infra/charter.md | 15:16 |
| ttx | I suspect dims can talk more about the benefits of setting those up separately | 15:17 |
| lbragstad | mnaser nice post - thanks! | 15:17 |
| cmurphy | criteria would be things like "support needed for image encryption is present in X, Y, Z projects" | 15:18 |
| ttx | another thing that is relatively different in $thing compared to SIG is the need for buy-in from affected teams | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | cmurphy : your point on the thread about buy-in from the project teams is also important; thanks for raising that | 15:19 |
| ttx | so there is a clear list of them | 15:19 |
| ttx | SIGs are a bit more blurry in that respect | 15:19 |
| dhellmann | that seems to be a big reason SIGs have had trouble gaining traction | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | at least some of them | 15:20 |
| ttx | It's difficult to come up with a definitive list of affected teams for SIGs as they are first to discuss what to do | 15:20 |
| dims | dhellmann : when the discussion is kinda finalized and turned into specifications, the wg can get disbanded as the sigs are going to use that input and turn it into actual $things | 15:20 |
| ttx | But SIGs could definitely spawn $things | 15:20 |
| dims | right | 15:21 |
| mnaser | i like that | 15:21 |
| dhellmann | so our SIGs might spawn pop-up teams to plan specific work which is then done by project teams? | 15:21 |
| dims | another example is wg-lts being formed right now. | 15:21 |
| ttx | hmm... we may have different meanings for $things :/ | 15:22 |
| ttx | I see SIGs as one of the way to discuss a need for a pop-up team. Pop-up teams coordinate work on a specific objective across multiple project teams. | 15:23 |
| dims | in k8s world, when KEPs are filed, then the SIGs take over and wg (that work across SIGs) are not needed any more | 15:23 |
| ttx | Pop-up teams need buy-in from affected teams | 15:23 |
| dims | right | 15:23 |
| ttx | dims: ah, interesting. Maybe due to there being a difference between SIGs and code owners already ? | 15:24 |
| dims | in k8s WGs there is no expectation that SIG will do what was decided/discussed there. that debate will be in KEPs | 15:24 |
| dims | ttx y that's another check/balance | 15:24 |
| dims | here i guess we want cross cutting teams with a specific mandate and authorization from projects to do the work agreed upon? | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | it seems like a key aspect is to have the work team be discoverable, scoped, and to have some sort of process for getting "approval" from the project teams involved | 15:28 |
| dhellmann | I guess that's 3 key aspects :-) | 15:29 |
| dims | agree dhellmann | 15:29 |
| dims | :) | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | I'm not sure if "mandate" is quite right, but something like that | 15:29 |
| dims | dhellmann : also helps folks to talk to their employer to get time to do stuff i think | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | perhaps | 15:30 |
| ttx | The goal is not to add layers of bureaucracy, it's really to help cross-project work driven by people who lack name recognition to engage directly and jJFDI | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | do we have some examples of things we think might be "done" through popup teams? | 15:30 |
| ttx | so a bit of process structure might (might) help them | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | I could see goals being managed by these teams | 15:31 |
| ttx | goals could be a particular form of pop up team -- tied to a cycle AND affecting most project teams | 15:32 |
| dhellmann | as well as "smaller" cross project work. I guess the think we keep pointing to is cinder multi-attach | 15:32 |
| dims | thinking back ... the python3 effort was a pop-up team | 15:32 |
| dhellmann | s/think/thing | 15:32 |
| ttx | dims: yes | 15:32 |
| dims | with the wiki tying all the folks and work together ... | 15:32 |
| ttx | tehre was one recently where someone asked us for advice on "steps" to follow to drive some cross-project objective | 15:33 |
| ttx | but that was ages ago, like last month or something | 15:33 |
| smcginnis | Signed glance images or something like that. | 15:33 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : yeah, that was it | 15:33 |
| ttx | smcginnis: wow your neurons are still working | 15:33 |
| dims | unaffected by the polar vortex thingy! | 15:34 |
| * ttx is impressed | 15:34 | |
| ttx | anyway, that's great feedback, don't hesitate to contribute it to the thread | 15:34 |
| dhellmann | how about the "help most needed" list? what do we see happening there? | 15:35 |
| dhellmann | ttx: do you want to add something to our tracking wiki page to keep up with the popup team process work? | 15:35 |
| * lbragstad still needs to parse that thread - but thanks for starting it ttx | 15:38 | |
| evrardjp | ttx: about the help most needed removal, what message will it be sending to remove that? It could as well be interpreted as "We don't need help" or as "All the projects need help". And I guess that's not the initial intent, right? | 15:41 |
| evrardjp | (Just thinking about how to ship that message) | 15:41 |
| ttx | dhellmann: wanted to gut-check it before making it an effort we collectively track | 15:42 |
| ttx | so maybe next week after the thread discussion? | 15:42 |
| dhellmann | ttx: sounds good | 15:43 |
| dhellmann | evrardjp : I think the point is to move the list and reform it, rather than eliminate it completely | 15:44 |
| dhellmann | the list as it stands now hasn't helped us, so we should try something else | 15:44 |
| evrardjp | yeah I got that, I am just concerned of the miscommunication that can go with it. I guess we just need to be careful | 15:44 |
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| lbragstad | fungi per your note here http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2018-November/000080.html do you happen to know if there is a link to the archive handy? | 17:05 |
| lbragstad | I can't seem to find/discover it | 17:05 |
| lbragstad | fungi nevermind - i was able to dig one up | 17:08 |
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| smcginnis | Huh, I had assumed we would still be able to browse the archives on lists.o.o. | 17:29 |
| lbragstad | yeah - that's where i tripped | 17:35 |
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| clarkb | the archives arestill there | 18:12 |
| clarkb | just not listed on the master list of lists | 18:12 |
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| lbragstad | clarkb ack - thanks | 19:09 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, the archives are at http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/ | 19:31 |
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