Friday, 2019-04-05

*** tjgresha has quit IRC00:04
*** tjgresha has joined #openstack-tc00:05
*** samueldmq has quit IRC00:29
*** lbragstad has quit IRC00:31
*** mriedem has quit IRC00:33
*** whoami-rajat has joined #openstack-tc00:48
gmannmnaser: sure.00:53
mnasergmann: let me also try to reach out to the foundation if Horace, their Chinese staff member is able to maybe coordinate a bit more00:55
gmannmnaser: ok, that will be great too00:56
*** lbragstad has joined #openstack-tc01:43
*** jamesmcarthur has joined #openstack-tc03:18
*** jamesmcarthur has quit IRC03:52
*** lbragstad has quit IRC03:54
*** lbragstad has joined #openstack-tc03:55
*** diablo_rojo has quit IRC03:59
*** jaosorior has joined #openstack-tc04:10
*** spsurya has joined #openstack-tc04:32
*** tdasilva has quit IRC04:38
*** jamesmcarthur has joined #openstack-tc05:01
*** jamesmcarthur has quit IRC05:05
*** lbragstad has quit IRC05:46
*** Luzi has joined #openstack-tc05:58
*** zhipeng has quit IRC06:31
*** dansmith has quit IRC06:34
*** dansmith has joined #openstack-tc06:34
*** e0ne has joined #openstack-tc06:35
*** zhipeng has joined #openstack-tc06:42
*** tjgresha has quit IRC06:59
*** tjgresha has joined #openstack-tc06:59
*** e0ne has quit IRC07:07
*** gouthamr has quit IRC07:11
*** tosky has joined #openstack-tc07:16
*** gouthamr has joined #openstack-tc07:20
*** e0ne has joined #openstack-tc07:21
*** e0ne has quit IRC07:25
*** jpich has joined #openstack-tc07:52
*** Luzi has quit IRC08:16
*** dtantsur|afk is now known as dtantsur08:41
*** e0ne has joined #openstack-tc09:00
*** e0ne has quit IRC09:02
*** e0ne has joined #openstack-tc09:20
*** e0ne has quit IRC09:42
*** e0ne has joined #openstack-tc09:45
*** zhipeng has quit IRC09:53
*** e0ne has quit IRC09:59
*** zhipeng has joined #openstack-tc10:03
*** EmilienM is now known as EvilienM11:14
jrollgood morning11:20
jrolltc-members: please vote on (opendev project namespace thing) if you haven't yet. we've got two weeks until that migration happens, and I want to make sure this lands in time for fungi and/or myself to script it up.11:21
*** e0ne has joined #openstack-tc11:37
*** e0ne has quit IRC12:15
*** e0ne has joined #openstack-tc12:33
*** whoami-rajat has quit IRC12:37
*** jamesmcarthur has joined #openstack-tc12:49
*** whoami-rajat has joined #openstack-tc12:54
*** jamesmcarthur has quit IRC13:04
*** tdasilva has joined #openstack-tc13:08
*** jamesmcarthur has joined #openstack-tc13:14
*** lbragstad has joined #openstack-tc13:18
*** jamesmcarthur has quit IRC13:19
*** jaosorior has quit IRC13:23
*** e0ne has quit IRC13:45
*** mriedem has joined #openstack-tc13:46
*** e0ne has joined #openstack-tc13:50
*** e0ne has quit IRC13:54
asettleMorning o/13:56
asettleWill do, jroll :)13:57
*** e0ne has joined #openstack-tc14:07
*** e0ne has quit IRC14:14
*** e0ne has joined #openstack-tc14:15
asettleTurns out I already voted, go past Alex14:21
*** jamesmcarthur has joined #openstack-tc14:38
*** e0ne has quit IRC14:57
*** e0ne has joined #openstack-tc15:03
*** whoami-rajat has quit IRC15:07
*** jamesmcarthur_ has joined #openstack-tc15:13
*** e0ne has quit IRC15:16
*** jamesmcarthur has quit IRC15:16
*** Sundar has joined #openstack-tc15:19
*** Sundar has quit IRC15:20
smcginnismugsie: Thanks for sending that. ;)15:20
*** Sundar has joined #openstack-tc15:22
*** dklyle has joined #openstack-tc15:24
*** EvilienM is now known as EmilienM15:45
mugsieHeh, I was worried it was a little strong, but I think it needed to be highlighted15:45
*** dtantsur is now known as dtantsur|afk16:01
*** jpich has quit IRC16:06
*** diablo_rojo has joined #openstack-tc16:20
fungiyes, much appreciated16:29
fungivery glad we performed our entire feedback gathering and reporting process 100% in public, as a counterpoint16:30
fungii was hoping that would help serve as an example16:30
mugsieif other tc-members agree and want to back me up, that would be appreciated - instead of me flapping in the wind on my own :)16:34
mugsiefungi: damn, I should have used that as an example16:35
asettlemugsie, I'm all about flapping16:35
asettleBut I will read when I have a mo :)16:35
mugsieasettle: thanks :)16:35
zanebmugsie: I think "personnel" refers to foundation staff members only16:38
fungiin a similar vein, the slide deck the zuul leadership will be presenting at the board meeting was also assembled in public (via code review) and is published at
fungi(that deck is continuously deployed by zuul to the site too, because, you know, it can so do that)16:39
fungitypo corrections/fixes to the content in the openstack-infra/zuul-website repo is welcome16:41
mugsiezaneb: yeah, it could be interpreted that way I suppose. I am kind of wondering what sort of personel issue a project could have that would need to be behind the doors, that wouldn't have been dealt with by the CoC, which falls to jbryce16:42
mugsiefungi: ++16:42
zanebmugsie: it means they can go into executive session to discuss people's salaries/hiring/firing, essentially16:43
fungigranted, salaries are all disclosed publicly anyway because of the requirements for being a nonprofit registered in the usa16:44
fungithough that reporting lags by a year or so since it's performed annually for the previous calendar year16:45
mugsieyeah, but it doesn't preclude the other use16:45
mugsieand I still want a real example why it is needed - if it really comes down to directors will not talk freely about a project in open session, we have a problem (that was a suggested use in the board meeting)16:46
*** cmurphy is now known as cmorpheus16:47
fungiit was something along the lines of "people (meaning board members in this case) are often willing to say different things in private off the record than they will in public"16:49
fungithough it was also suggested that some board members may not be authorized to make public statements about certain topics due to trade regulations, or something like that16:50
fungi(i would argue in that case that they shouldn't make those same statements in private to the rest of the board either)16:51
mugsieyeah - disclosure to a board is still a disclosure16:53
smcginnisThe big concern raised in favor of having this was for things like if a company was in the process of a legal dispute or something with another involved in a potential new project where that board member would have a legal reason for not being able to have a public conversation about things.16:55
smcginnisThat seems kind of wishy washy to me though.16:55
mugsieand, my very uncharitable opinion, if they are not willing to discharge their responsibilities to the foundation by saying something that is important just because they are in open session, they should not put themselves in a position that may require it, and not be on the board16:55
smcginnisBetter to abstain from voting then. Or privately share with another board member if there is a legitimate issue to raise.16:55
*** dklyle has quit IRC16:56
mugsiesmcginnis: yeah, there is ways to deal with that, but recusing yourself at the beginning (which is also a good thing for open governance)16:56
*** dklyle has joined #openstack-tc16:56
mugsieI have been on boards where I have had to recuse myself due to conflicts of interest - it is a standard thing16:57
jbrycemugsie: disclosure to a board in executive session is definitely not the same at all as a public disclosure16:59
jbryceto be clear, i'm totally fine with not having executive session for project review. i haven't been able to come up with a specific example of when it would be needed for that16:59
jbrycebut it's factually incorrect to state that a discussion under executive session is equivalent to any disclosure17:00
mnaserI can understand the concern from both sides, but I'm trusting our individual board members will be on these and will speak up if things are not ok.17:00
jbrycewhen the board started gold/platinum member reviews, there was no allowance for discussion under executive session (this was actually how i pushed to have the bylaws written). the board ended up adding it at the request of a director who had extremely relevant information that could not be shared publicly but that could be shared under the confidentiality provided by executive session17:02
mugsiejbryce: it depends on the disclosure of course, but e.g. if it is forward looking financial results / forcasts of a traded company, that would be considered a disclosure (at least here). the devil is in the context :)17:03
jbryceit's happened a couple of times, but in the cases where it's happened, i'm glad that the directors provided the information to the board in a legally appropriate way rather than just recusing themselves. in fact, rather than saying they shouldn't be on the board because of that, i think it's an example of why they SHOULD be and how their presence was helpful in making better decisions for the foundation17:05
mugsiejbryce: and now, the end result is presentations happen, there is a small amount of discussion, and then the board closes the doors, and result comes out the far end - I just don't want to see that happen for what should be community based decisions about projects17:06
mnaserI think what that's implying is the board closes the door _if_ someone requests to close the doors with a justifiable reason, unless I've misunderstood things.17:07
smcginnisThat's the intent.17:07
jbryceagain...i haven't come up with a reason why we'd need this for project reviews yet. i'm just trying to make sure we don't over simplify this and say all disclosures are the same and if a director has information that can't be shared publicly they shouldn't be involved in any board decisions17:07
smcginnisI did ask if we can reword it to make that more clear at least.17:07
mugsiejbryce: yes, my bad, i was over simplifying17:07
mnasertc-members: we have a few reviews for elaborating on business value that would be really nice to finalize and merge.  they've been sitting around for aw while now, try to please take sometime to go over them.17:09
*** e0ne has joined #openstack-tc17:12
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: document voting process
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Add resolution to namespace unofficial projects
jbrycemnaser: on the earlier discussion, i connected you with horace, but i wanted to mention it's a holiday weekend in china so it may be a few days before he can engage on it with you17:22
*** jamesmcarthur_ has quit IRC17:22
mnaserjbryce: cool, thank you, I'll work with gmann to get some communication and we can gather some more information to help that team work more in the open :)17:22
*** e0ne has quit IRC17:24
*** jamesmcarthur has joined #openstack-tc17:28
diablo_rojomnaser, so..15 min or 30 min for lunch talks? (If you do 30 there will be talking all through lunch as opposed to the last half hour like we have historically done)17:28
*** whoami-rajat has joined #openstack-tc17:37
*** e0ne has joined #openstack-tc17:37
mnaserI was thinking 15 for goals and 15 for updates and future, any thoughts from other tc-members ?17:38
jrollmakes sense, also gives time for q&a17:38
*** kmalloc is now known as needscoffee17:46
TheJuliaWe should always give time fore Q&A17:47
*** TheJulia is now known as needssleep17:47
gmanni am thinking, updates and future might take more than 15 min because it includes all projects train highlights ...17:51
mnaserI think diablo_rojo is only giving us a max of 30 minutes so we're gonna have to make it work.. somehow :)17:51
* diablo_rojo puts the TC down for 30 min17:52
*** Sundar has quit IRC17:58
*** jamesmcarthur has quit IRC18:01
gmannyeah. i was thinking to take some time from train goals but Train goals is imp to explain when most of the developers are there18:03
fungiwe can always tell folks to find us in our room on saturday for more in-depth questions (or better still, recommend discussing on the ml)18:08
fungithis is but one tiny example of how the community is needing to compromise with regard to the compressed nature of this ptg schedule, after all18:10
*** jamesmcarthur has joined #openstack-tc18:17
*** jamesmcarthur has quit IRC18:25
*** jamesmcarthur has joined #openstack-tc18:29
*** jamesmcarthur has quit IRC18:32
dhellmannfungi : ++18:32
*** jamesmcarthur has joined #openstack-tc18:34
*** e0ne has quit IRC19:02
*** e0ne has joined #openstack-tc19:03
*** e0ne has quit IRC19:53
gmanntc-members: All the legacy jobs are now migrated to bionic. I have marked the migration activity completed -
gmannas next step, we can now safely remove the py35 jobs from stable/stein and train gate. which is what we decided in
gmannIf there is no oppose to drop py35, I can push the py35 job removal patches during this weekend so that we can save the gate consumption for working days20:00
gmannfirst set will be to drop the py35 jobs from train gate and then backport them to stable/stein20:02
dhellmanngmann : maybe wait to push all of those patches until after the final release next week? we have a few teams doing last minute release candidates20:16
gmanndhellmann: that is good point. you mean to hold only backport to stable/stein or master patch also ?20:20
dhellmannI wouldn't submit a large number of any patches this week20:20
gmanni see, yeah i can wait until final release.20:21
dhellmannlet everyone focus on finishing stein, and submit those for next weekend20:21
gmannone point i was thinking, do we need to backport the py35 drop for stable/stein ? we just drop it from master (train) and leave stable/stein as it is which does not harm i think.20:22
* mnaser thinks zaneb and fungi are one of the best to answer the above20:32
zanebI know fungi was keen to drop it from stable/stein20:33
zaneband I don't see any great harm in that20:33
dhellmannwe could do that by adding an exclusion rule in the template I think, instead of landing all of those stable patches20:34
dhellmanndid we get the new series-specific template name stuff set up?20:34
zanebdhellmann: that's a good idea20:34
zanebdhellmann: yes20:34
zaneb(for train, not stein)20:34
dhellmannI guess not in time to have that be part of the branching process, though, if we're talking about writing the patches by hand?20:35
zanebdhellmann: the template was there but the change to use it didn't get proposed as part of the branching process20:37
dhellmannyeah, that's what I meant20:37
dhellmannwe should update the branching script before the end of train20:37
gmannyeah, we can restrict the job not to run on stable/setin but its usage on projects side zuul.yaml might confuse people.20:40
fungii think as a middle ground it's fine to tell teams they're welcome to drop their stable/stein py35 jobs at their leisure and that we consider those jobs to be eol when stable/rocky is20:53
fungiand not scramble for a mass patchfest to force the issue20:53
mnaserdoes this also mean we can change the PTI document now given what we CI'd with bionic the last release?21:09
* mnaser doesn't remember the exact details21:09
*** jamesmcarthur has quit IRC21:15
*** eandersson_ has joined #openstack-tc22:00
*** dansmith_ has joined #openstack-tc22:00
*** edmondsw has quit IRC22:01
*** penick has quit IRC22:01
*** dansmith has quit IRC22:01
*** EmilienM has quit IRC22:01
*** tbarron has quit IRC22:01
*** frickler has quit IRC22:01
*** aspiers has quit IRC22:01
*** prometheanfire has quit IRC22:01
*** eandersson has quit IRC22:01
*** mriedem has left #openstack-tc22:01
*** frickler has joined #openstack-tc22:01
*** EmilienM has joined #openstack-tc22:02
*** edmondsw_ has joined #openstack-tc22:02
*** mriedem has joined #openstack-tc22:02
*** dansmith_ has quit IRC22:02
*** lbragstad has quit IRC22:02
*** lbragstad_ has joined #openstack-tc22:02
*** dansmith has joined #openstack-tc22:02
*** whoami-rajat has quit IRC22:27
*** openstackgerrit has quit IRC22:28
*** aspiers has joined #openstack-tc22:29
*** mriedem has quit IRC22:33
*** mriedem has joined #openstack-tc22:35
fungimnaser: i don't think they need adjusting:
fungiwe already didn't include python 3.5 or ubuntu xenial for stein's22:42
*** tosky has quit IRC23:11
*** needscoffee is now known as kmalloc23:32
*** diablo_rojo has quit IRC23:58

Generated by 2.15.3 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!