Thursday, 2019-04-04

mnaserfungi: I can throw that in, I'll try to ping folks a bit more (EST will be up then) for some final okays00:02
fungiawesome, thanks!00:06
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openstackgerritHongbin Lu proposed openstack/governance master: Add a link for Zun technical vision reflection
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evrardjpi find nothing to add on that fungi. It's looking good06:11
evrardjpfor both06:11
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jrollboth look good to me - thanks for writing them up, fungi11:34
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fungii get uneasy when i write something and nobody has any edits, but i'll take it as a compliment i guess ;)13:24
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SundarCould I ask about PTG preparation here, or is there a better channel?13:31
fungiSundar: depends on what you're wanting to ask about, though there is a #openstack-ptg channel too13:32
Sundarfungi: I was about to ask about getting a room with a projector. Apparently, there is one available.13:33
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fungii believe there is a dynamically-schedulable room with a projector, you just need to book it through the ptgbot while the ptg is going13:36
fungittx or diablo_rojo_phon may be able to tell you more with certainty13:36
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ttxyeah, we won't have a projector in every room -- but we'll be able to book space that has projector if a specific task needs it13:42
Sundarfungi: Thanks. "while the ptg is going" -- that is the tough part :). We need to invite people at a specific time well before I come to the PTG.13:43
Sundarttx: I have been asked if I can do a demo a cross-project interaction between Cyborg and Nova. That is best done with a projector. Is there a way to book it before I get to the PTG?13:44
Sundarttx: Saw your response in the -ptg channel. I'll check that first13:45
ttxSundar: how much time do you need, and when would be the ideal time ?13:47
Sundarttx: I need 1 - 1.5 hours (need to discuss with Nova folks). The ideal time would be Thu afternoon, I think. That also needs confirmation with Nova :).13:48
ttxIn the afternoons we have two bookable time slots: 1:30-3:15 or 3:15-5:0013:51
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ttxSo you can propose either and let me know which one works... Can make sure to prebook it when I do the setup13:51
Sundarttx: Great. I'll check and get back in a day or two. Thank you very much.13:53
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ttxSundar: probably more a next week thing, we still need to finalize room allocation :)13:58
ttxSundar: but you can start discussing which time would make more sense13:59
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Sundarttx: Got it, np.13:59
ttxBookable morning slots are 09:00-10:45 and 10:45-12:3013:59
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fungitc-members: any last-minute suggestions/edits on the proposed feedback e-mails at the bottoms of and would be most welcome. i probably won't be able to pay super close attention during our office hour, since there's a fair amount of stuff on the security sig15:02
fungimeeting agenda again this week15:02
fungi(also, it's now office hour)15:02
evrardjpnot much to say, except thank you fungi15:03
* mugsie is going to lurk for the begining15:03
fungicool, mostly wanted to make sure folks who were already offline for the day when i posted them in here had a chance to take a look before mnaser sends them on to the foundation ml15:03
* ttx is around15:06
zanebfungi: grammar nitpick - "opportunities at" reads weird to me15:10
fungiahh, in the second paragraph of the kata one. how's "opportunities for" do for you?15:12
zanebI don't actually care, just wanted to prove I'd read it ;)15:13
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fungiappreciated regardless15:36
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fungimnaser: i expect everyone who's going to weigh in on those summaries has already done so; feel free to send both to the foundation ml when you have a moment to do so17:46
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diablo_rojomnaser, around?18:37
diablo_rojoGot two things when you have some spare time :)18:37
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mnaserfungi: perfect, ill send it out right now19:54
mnaserdiablo_rojo: o/ I'm here nao19:55
fungithanks again mnaser!20:00
mnaserfungi: im thinking maybe add openstack-discuss in there too?20:00
mnaserjust to keep our community informed overall?20:00
mnaseror perhaps that might be too noisy, the foundation ML is accessible for anyone who's interested to be on20:02
mnaserand this is mostly an OSF related thing.20:02
fungibest not to cross-post, but you or i can follow up to the initial -discuss threads with links to the foundation ml posts20:02
fungii'm happy to do that part20:02
fungijust thought the summaries to the foundation ml were best coming from the tc chair20:02
mnaserfungi: yep, I am firing off both those emails now20:02
mnaserfungi: sent off, thanks a lot for taking care of that20:04
fungiokay, following up to the other ml threads now20:05
diablo_rojomnaser, wanted to make sure updating was on your radar since there are people signed up for things no longer on the TC :)20:07
diablo_rojoItem number two is less benign..20:08
diablo_rojoIn looking at changing meeting times for the FC SIG I have discovered that tricircle has basically abandoned IRC entirely and is only using wechat..they havent held a meeting in IRC since last August and havent spoken in the channel at all since 2019 started..20:08
diablo_rojoJust wanted to bring it to your/the TC's attention20:09
diablo_rojoBasically they are failing at the 'Is the team openly collaborating' part of the health checklist20:10
mnaserdiablo_rojo: oh.  one of the things on the list was discussing if we wanted to continue doing these health checks to discuss at the ptg20:13
diablo_rojomnaser, I guess if the list is going away it doesn't need updating then :)20:14
diablo_rojoEither way, the tricircle thing is a problem..20:14
mnaserdiablo_rojo: yeah, that's not been decided yet.. but I didn't want to start assigning everything and then rip it out in a way, we're only a few days away from the ptg.20:14
mnaserright, yes.  we need things to be held in the open20:14
mnaserdiablo_rojo: mind if I ask how you ended up finding this out?20:15
diablo_rojomnaser, so I went to update the FC SIG meeting time to be the same as when tricircle has their meeting and gmann noticed it would conflict since they would both be in #openstack-meeting but upon investigation they havent meet there since last august. I emailed the PTL and he said that they use wechat for meetings. I talked with fungi a bit today and did some more poking and they haven't used their channel since last year it20:17
asettletc-members - sorry I missed the meeting. SUSECON has taken control of my entire life.20:19
asettleNormal hours will resume on Tuesday20:19
* diablo_rojo waves to asettle 20:19
asettleHEY GIRL20:20
diablo_rojoHEY GIRL HEY20:20
asettle(that's like, a hug rn)20:20
diablo_rojoCan't wait to see you in a few weeks :)20:20
asettleI KNOW :D20:20
diablo_rojoDid you buy cowboy boots yet?20:20
diablo_rojoI bought some when I was in Nashville..20:20
asettleNot yet, but that's definitely on the cards. I kinda think I just have to? Although I'm not entirely sure what I'd wear with ma boots20:21
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lbragstadeverything goes with boots...20:21
asettleI've seen some boots that stuff genuinely couldn't possibly go with :p20:21
diablo_rojoSundresses or shorts are what I normally do..20:21
asettleOh that's cute. I like that idea.20:21
diablo_rojoThe south seems to favor bedazzled jeans.20:22
* diablo_rojo is enjoying this use of the TC channel20:22
asettleWhich is *bizarre* to me :p20:22
diablo_rojoI can't think of any time in which I have worn anything bedazzled.20:23
asettleMaybe in the 90s?20:23
gmannyeah diablo_rojo  has good point on being open calloboartion. i think we do have recommended chanels for  public meeting or where community can find team to chat which is IRC ?20:23
asettleThere were some dodgy life choices made then.20:23
gmanndiablo_rojo: do you know if they have mentioned the wechat meeting or the contact place on tricirlce wiki or doc ?20:24
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diablo_rojogmann, they do not mention it anywhere that fungi or I could find20:27
diablo_rojoI just know cause of the email.20:27
gmannhummm that seems problem20:27
diablo_rojoNot exactly open for new contributors20:28
diablo_rojoor anyone with tricircle questions20:28
gmanneven for old too :) i do not have wechat20:28
diablo_rojoNor do I plan to.20:28
smcginnisasettle: Do you realize how old diablo_rojo was in the '90's? :)20:29
asettlesmcginnis, yeah the same as as me :P20:29
asettleWe're 6 months apart.20:29
smcginnisHah, alright then. :)20:29
diablo_rojosmcginnis, :P20:30
diablo_rojoasettle, even mom wasnt a bedazzly person either so I think I was spared.20:30
asettlediablo_rojo, lucky you! :P although it was more florals.20:30
diablo_rojosmcginnis, is juuuuust old enough that he could be our father asettle ;)20:30
diablo_rojoAccording to bridget at least20:30
asettlesmcginnis, are you trying to say I *look* older than diablo_rojo? :P20:31
asettleHAHA I'll have to tell my dad that.20:31
smcginnisOh man!20:31
asettleI bet this wasn't the conversation you were after, hey ;)20:31
diablo_rojosmcginnis, I think you wouldnt have survived if asettle and I would have been your daughters20:31
asettleI was about to protest but yeah you're right20:32
smcginnisAt least not my liver.20:32
diablo_rojosmcginnis, LOL20:32
asettleAye you would have been fineeeeeeeee20:32
* diablo_rojo disappears to lunch but will be following on her phone in case the tricircle discussion continues20:36
mnasertc-members: diablo_rojo has raised an issue regarding a team that's not using IRC but WeChat to communicate, I assume the larger part of the contributor based is probably based in China and that it's easier for them.  I want us to try and take this as an opportunity to see how we can build a bridge and and see how we can help make our open tooling more usable and accessible to these users.20:41
mnaserIt's probably clear that somewhere, they find themselves limited and perhaps we can try and figure something out for our large APAC contributor base20:41
asettlemnaser, thanks for the recap!20:42
mnaserwould anyone like to volunteer to personally reach out to the PTL and see how we can open a small discussion channel to hear some of the issues that they are facing?20:43
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cmurphys/APAC/China (from what I understand wechat is primarily a chinese platform)20:43
smcginnisYou can certainly use it elsewhere, but based in and focused on China.20:44
gmannmostly yes, developers from idnia are all ok on IRC. my team of around 10 contributor has not issue in irc eccpet TZ20:44
mnasercmurphy: yeah, that is what I also thought, but I didn't know enough of the details to say China only20:44
TheJuliaIt is, it also has major difficulties for people outside to find content and has some fun limitations, like 500 participants to a room (that may have been removed though)20:44
smcginnisTheJulia: I believe the size limitation is still in place.20:45
cmurphymnaser: I just wanted it to be clear because I think the difficulties Chinese contributors face are slightly different than the rest of the APAC zone20:45
mnasercmurphy: ah yes, indeed, that's a critical point20:46
smcginnisThe great firewall blocks *a lot* we take for granted.20:47
gmannit will be good if we can have someone from china can find out the requirement or problem they are facing. may be china user group can help on this.20:47
TheJuliaI highly recommend folks here try to do things they normally would when they have a little downtime in China. It is... interesting.20:47
mnaseryah, I think I have a trip down there soon hopefully other than the Shanghai trip20:48
mnaserand I think the fact that we focus on hosting our stuff means that we absolutely are able to deliver the best things for our users20:48
TheJuliaIRC is not explicitly banned, but it is more of a model of "if we don't explicitly approve, its not really permitted." Some contributors thus have been able to get on with things like irccloud via work or home... (and vise versa, each situation seems different)20:49
clarkbrelated to that I think one of the struggles here is corporate policy and not just the great firewall20:50
smcginnisSome are able to access more at work than they can at home, but that varies.20:50
clarkbso it can be helpful to be as specific as possible when it comes to what is actually preventing access (corporate policy can potentially be worked with)20:50
gmannyeah, being in japan and having team in india under firewall , we had setup a proxy-less-internet for team to do open source activities.20:52
TheJuliawhat clarkb is saying is what I'm trying to say as well20:52
gmannk8s has more issue than openstack being using google tooling for more activities which are not accessible in inranet for most of the corporate in APAC20:53
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mnasergmann: indeed, and I think we have a big part of the Chinese community because of our lack-of-corporate-tie-in to those giant entities21:05
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fungijust returned from an afternoon walk and catching up, part of the concern is their choice to hold regular meetings exclusively on a proprietary platform which requires proprietary client software, the other is the fact that they seem to have no documentation on how to participate in them, nor where, nor when...21:27
fungibut also, the last exchange i was able to find from any humans in their irc channel was this, and it's remarkably cryptic (or seems so to me):
fungidoing my best not to draw any conclusions about whether their development and design is actually happening in the open21:32
asettleHuh that is a bit um... odd21:35
fungiheh, someone asking if anyone actually pays attention to that channel (and then predictably goes unanswered):
asettleHmmm who is the PTL?21:40
gmanni find health tracker more useful in such situation to know the team intend to move on other chat channel and do they document it somewhere or ask community feedback before moving ...21:42
gmannmnaser: you were asking for volunteer to reach out to PTL of tricircle or all PTLs and start the chat channel discussion again?21:51
gmannmnaser: if first one then, i can do. i have communicated him for bionic migration patches for tricircle21:53
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mnaserfungi: that is concerning23:09
mnasergmann: if you have the bandwidth, I think it might be good to start that off23:09
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