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| ttx | done | 08:46 |
|---|---|---|
| asettle | Morning o/ | 08:57 |
| asettle | also done | 08:57 |
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| fungi | dhellmann: also i was asked to provide a list of openstack contributors for the calendar leading up to the summit (so a few days shy of a full year as i generated it yesterday) and came up with 1841 distinct individuals | 13:33 |
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| fungi | not sure if that helps | 13:34 |
| fungi | not the same timeframe obviously as it's from april last year to april this | 13:34 |
| fungi | but at least provides some sense of magnitude | 13:34 |
| dhellmann | fungi : I went with my usually vague "about 2000 contributors" and that number is close enough for me to feel comfortable that I'm not entirely misleading anyone | 13:37 |
| dhellmann | though I should probably dial it down for next time :-) | 13:38 |
| fungi | this is science. if it's within an order of magnitude i say that's a viable model ;) | 13:38 |
| fungi | at least that's what my profs always told me! | 13:39 |
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| dtantsur | ditto :) | 13:43 |
| asettle | LOL | 13:48 |
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| evrardjp | I hope that's not how we ranked the score for your exams | 14:21 |
| evrardjp | he* | 14:21 |
| evrardjp | "an order of magnitude lower" :( | 14:22 |
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| ijolliffe | @serverascode HI Curtis - I am putting some stuff around Packet on slide 7 - please have a look when you get a chance | 14:47 |
| evrardjp | ijolliffe: correct chan? | 14:48 |
| ijolliffe | sorry my nistake | 14:48 |
| evrardjp | no worries :) | 14:48 |
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| jroll | the impending office hours inspired me to finally send the mail about archiving stale github repos: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-April/005629.html | 15:00 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 15:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 15:00 |
| fungi | aloha | 15:02 |
| ttx | ohai | 15:02 |
| fungi | and thanks jroll! | 15:02 |
| jroll | :) | 15:02 |
| ttx | Quick reminder that we have a 20-ish-min segment at the PTG for the TC to address the crowd | 15:02 |
| mriedem | if anyone is in any sort of stable branch discussion at the forum it'd be interesting to know if users/vendors/operators are benefiting from the extended maintenance change now that it's been in place for 2 releases (ocata and pike) | 15:03 |
| ttx | yeah the visible impact has been... limited | 15:03 |
| mriedem | and we no longer have the session-at-every-get-together about EOL and all that | 15:03 |
| ttx | mnaser: maybe that is something you could raise at the Board meeting too | 15:03 |
| mriedem | i think red hat is benefiting since they are still backporting things to the EM branches for their downstream support | 15:04 |
| mriedem | since rhosp has LTS support now | 15:04 |
| gmann | along with that can we include this question in user survey too ? | 15:04 |
| fungi | mriedem: you nailed it. the biggest benefit seems to be that we've stopped having semi-annual arguments about lts ;) | 15:05 |
| ttx | hmm. currently there is no "TC questions" in the survey, but I guess there could/should be | 15:05 |
| gmann | +1. user can give feedback about openstack overall pain points/feedback to TC survey if we will have one. | 15:07 |
| gmann | mriedem: anything went from EM->UM ? i think no. | 15:08 |
| gmann | may be that time we could know what all users care and benefit from EM | 15:08 |
| mriedem | gmann: idk, there are a lot of projects, smcginnis or dhellmann on the release team would probably know better about that. i think some projects have wanted to opt out, like i think tripleo was wanting to not do EM. | 15:09 |
| mnaser | ttx, mriedem: that could be interesting, though, I don't know if that's the audience that might have the best answer to be honest. | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | mriedem , gmann : yes, pike and queens are EM now. https://releases.openstack.org | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | or at least in the process of becoming so | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | I think some of the pike tags may have been caught up in the recent release tool breakage | 15:11 |
| mriedem | dhellmann: pike and ocata | 15:11 |
| evrardjp | not queens yet | 15:11 |
| gmann | dhellmann: anything 'unmaintained' ? Ocata might be the first gor from EM to UM | 15:11 |
| evrardjp | ocata is already EM and pike is still in process (or at least was 2 weeks ago) | 15:12 |
| evrardjp | what is UM? | 15:12 |
| smcginnis | I haven't seen any teams specifically ask to go to EOL uet. | 15:12 |
| evrardjp | it's not EOL after EM? | 15:12 |
| smcginnis | Unmaintained | 15:12 |
| evrardjp | I thought these were synonyms | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | oh, sorry, I was looking at the wrong column | 15:12 |
| smcginnis | Unmaintained for 6 months, then EOL. Unless the team asks to go eol. | 15:12 |
| mriedem | evrardjp: https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#maintenance-phases | 15:13 |
| gmann | evrardjp: Unmaintained :) and then EOL | 15:13 |
| evrardjp | mriedem: I should know this, my memory is bad | 15:13 |
| smcginnis | We haven't really sorted out how we are going to determine if an EM repo is being unmaintained for 6 months to determine if it should go EOL. | 15:13 |
| evrardjp | I probably have a mental block of unmaintained | 15:13 |
| mriedem | smcginnis: if tests are busted and you can't land code and no one cares to fix it | 15:13 |
| mriedem | is my acid test | 15:13 |
| smcginnis | Not a bad one. | 15:13 |
| gmann | yeah, Tempest do not gate EM branch on master gate so we do not know till when tests keep passing there | 15:14 |
| smcginnis | 6 months of being broke? Or 6 months of patches not being accepted? | 15:14 |
| mriedem | different problems | 15:14 |
| mriedem | if ci is busted for 6 months and no one has pushed a change to fix it, then it's clearly unmaintained and should be eol | 15:15 |
| smcginnis | Still "unmaintained" though. | 15:15 |
| mriedem | if people are pushing patches and cores aren't reviewing them, or worse they refuse to review them, then it's a social issue | 15:15 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance-website master: Replace git.openstack.org URLs with opendev.org URLs https://review.opendev.org/655011 | 15:15 |
| mriedem | there was something about the latter in the resolution | 15:15 |
| evrardjp | mriedem: in that case, why having an official "Unmaintained" state, why not EM->EOL ? | 15:15 |
| smcginnis | At that point, it may be worth advertising for whether a different team wants to take over that maintenance. | 15:15 |
| smcginnis | IIRC, we said EM didn't have to be the normal project team. | 15:15 |
| * mriedem didn't really want to stir up this nest that was debated a year ago | 15:16 | |
| * mnaser has noticed people back port changes, see jobs fail and nothing happens after | 15:16 | |
| mriedem | it's the same stable core team | 15:16 |
| mriedem | if you want on the stable core team, you do the normal things to get there | 15:16 |
| mriedem | not just for the EM branch | 15:16 |
| mriedem | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/resolutions/20180301-stable-branch-eol.html#core-teams | 15:16 |
| smcginnis | Just found that. Good. I thought we had landed on keeping it open for another team to step in. | 15:17 |
| mriedem | yay for writing stuff down | 15:18 |
| cmurphy | ftr suse has backported things to pike but i guess that only just now gone EM, we don't support ocata so no opinion there so far | 15:18 |
| mriedem | i believe VIO has moved on from pike as well | 15:19 |
| mriedem | so likely depends on the vendor and their LTS policies | 15:19 |
| mriedem | which is why we could never have a standard LTS upstream | 15:20 |
| mriedem | well, one of many reasons why | 15:20 |
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| dhellmann | it would be interesting to see who is backporting how many patches to which repos in those EM branches | 15:21 |
| fungi | mriedem: if a test falls in the forest and no dev is around to hear it, does it actually make a sound? | 15:23 |
| mriedem | yes | 15:23 |
| fungi | just thinking that if a project is actually unmaintained and has broken jobs, we're just as likely to not hear about it | 15:23 |
| dhellmann | and lo, there was a script: https://opendev.org/openstack/goal-tools/src/branch/master/queries/ocata-em/run_contributor_report.sh | 15:23 |
| mriedem | fungi: yeah sure | 15:24 |
| fungi | perhaps if an em branch goes 6 months/one cycle with no backports, it's de-facto unmaintained and can be eol after that? | 15:24 |
| mriedem | i can't speak for other projects, but i'd hope if they have the stable:follows-policy tag or whatever they are conscious of (1) having stable branches, (2) if there is activity and (3) the health of them | 15:25 |
| mriedem | idk, some people also don't upgrade for longggg strethes | 15:25 |
| mriedem | *stretches | 15:25 |
| mriedem | and then they do, and say "oh i just upgraded from mitaka to pike and hit this issue" | 15:25 |
| mnaser | we can hack something with Gerrit search too | 15:26 |
| mnaser | branch:stable/pike is:merged | 15:26 |
| mnaser | or somethign | 15:26 |
| fungi | right, i suppose we can claim a branch is indefinitely under extended maintenance, and as long as nobody ever tries to backport anything to it... schrödinger's ci? | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | and some stats: http://paste.openstack.org/show/749755/ | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | remember that goal-tools counts reviews, approvals, and patches as separate "contributions" | 15:30 |
| evrardjp | fungi: I am in favour of this | 15:30 |
| evrardjp | (except calling it schrodinger, because it's not technically in both states) | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | and those stats are for ocata, built with the script linked earlier | 15:30 |
| fungi | the branch is simultaneously both working and broken until you look at its job results ;) | 15:30 |
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| mnaser | while most are here | 15:34 |
| mnaser | please try to give some love to https://review.opendev.org/#/c/653545/ :) | 15:34 |
| dhellmann | stats after updating my stale gerrit cache: http://paste.openstack.org/show/749756/ | 15:34 |
| mnaser | gmann has done an absolute *amazing* work in following up with everyone. | 15:34 |
| mnaser | just wanna highlight that | 15:34 |
| mriedem | heh | VexxHost | 91 | | 15:38 |
| mriedem | wonder who that is | 15:38 |
| mriedem | dhellmann: the vmware and rackspace numbers in there surprise me, i wonder what projects those are | 15:38 |
| dhellmann | let me see... | 15:39 |
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| dhellmann | mriedem : http://paste.openstack.org/show/749757/ | 15:43 |
| mriedem | ok OSA that makes more sense | 15:43 |
| dhellmann | mriedem : also https://review.opendev.org/655723 | 15:43 |
| dhellmann | I should probably write some instructions for using those tools. They make it relatively easy to answer questions like this. | 15:45 |
| cmurphy | dhellmann: what is the timeline for those stats? | 15:49 |
| dhellmann | all patches matching: after:2018-08-30 branch:stable/ocata ( is:merged OR is:open ) | 15:50 |
| dhellmann | filtered to only governed projects | 15:50 |
| cmurphy | oh got it | 15:50 |
| dhellmann | I no longer remember what is special about that date. maybe that was when we declared the branch em, though? | 15:50 |
| mriedem | dhellmann: that's when rocky was released | 15:58 |
| mriedem | so N-3 would be ocata | 15:58 |
| mriedem | the traditional EOL date for the oldest branch | 15:59 |
| dhellmann | ah, yeah | 15:59 |
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| ttx | tc-members Reminder, we have a dinner at 8pm on Saturday | 16:14 |
| ttx | I'm traveling tomorrow, and will be seeing y'all on the other side | 16:14 |
| fungi | my flights landing around 4:30mdt so that should be time for me to get checked into my hotel and head to the restaurant | 16:15 |
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| gmann | My flight is still not finalized hope i will make it before 8 PM. | 16:16 |
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| scas | things have aligned such where i have time but getting there would be extremely difficult. doable, just difficult | 16:24 |
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| scas | i wouldn't be able to make it before saturday morning at the earliest. my travel pack has grown legs, so that's where the difficulty comes in | 16:33 |
| asettle | Will be there! I think I get in around 5pm or so. | 16:37 |
| asettle | ttx, did you send the dinner details by email or is it in an etherpad I've lost? | 16:37 |
| scas | these past few months have been interesting for me personally, having had a forced time away from most things technology. too much to bloviate about on irc | 16:39 |
| mugsie | asettle: I think it is in an eitherpad ... | 16:42 |
| asettle | Adddd as you say that, i find it | 16:42 |
| asettle | Gracias | 16:42 |
| mugsie | here to help :) | 16:42 |
| mugsie | I am also flying out tomorrow morning - will be in DEN friday night / saturday morning | 16:43 |
| scas | alas, i cannot actually make the trip as i have a court date pending as a result of the fun times. either that, or i would have to make it a short trip | 16:46 |
| scas | by short, i mean basically i'd be around until monday night then catch a flight back to pdx | 16:48 |
| scas | this requires more c2h5oh to talk about in further detail | 16:50 |
| scas | it | 16:50 |
| scas | it's not /too/ early for that somewhere, is it? | 16:50 |
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| clarkb | scas it is quite nice outsude right now | 17:28 |
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| fungi | c2h5oh was basically my lunch | 18:39 |
| fungi | "carb loading" to fuel pre-travel yardwork | 18:39 |
| fungi | and also to properly condition my liver so i can survive a full week with all of you | 18:40 |
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| mnaser | mriedem, mtreinish, tonyb: I like evrardjp idea of hearing your feedback on https://review.opendev.org/#/c/652084/ | 20:24 |
| mriedem | i thought i had already commented on that but guess not | 20:28 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Expand on the business value of Designate https://review.opendev.org/649069 | 20:29 |
| mriedem | +1, sure. added smatzek from ibm who i know cared about trove at one point in recent memory | 20:32 |
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| mnaser | dhellmann: I feel like you linked this nice article a while back about not re-wrapping text inside git changes | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | I think I know the one you mean, hang on | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | https://rhodesmill.org/brandon/2012/one-sentence-per-line/ | 20:38 |
| mnaser | dhellmann: ahh yes, thank you. | 20:40 |
| fungi | yeah, that's a useful technique. i prefer it and i follow it *if* i see it is an established pattern in a file i'm editing | 20:40 |
| fungi | but for me, it's still trumped by local convention because collaborating with others and observing established customs is equally, if not more, important | 20:41 |
| smcginnis | ++ | 20:42 |
| fungi | also, it's only really applicable in situations where single linefeeds are eaten or can be marked as non-semantic | 20:42 |
| fungi | so for things like html or rst it's quite useful | 20:43 |
| fungi | also places like code comments or python docstrings | 20:43 |
| scas | clarkb: it is a great day outside today, but i've done too much outside these past few months | 20:45 |
| fungi | on the other hand, i think we're all (me included) a bit too attached to line-by-line diffs. for char-by-char diffs it doesn't matter much | 20:45 |
| fungi | those are harder to render though... we need better tools | 20:48 |
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| tonyb[m] | mnaser: when I get my laptop out I'll review that | 20:51 |
| openstackgerrit | Mohammed Naser proposed openstack/governance master: help-most-needed: remove reference to infracloud https://review.opendev.org/655793 | 20:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Elaborate on the business value of infra admins https://review.opendev.org/641890 | 21:04 |
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| tonyb[m] | mnaser: done (+1) | 22:14 |
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