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| gmann | tonyb[m]: you made a good point on re-obtaining the tag back. do we have written that somewhere ? | 01:42 |
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| openstackgerrit | caoyuan proposed openstack/governance master: Replace git.openstack.org URLs with opendev.org URLs https://review.opendev.org/655010 | 09:54 |
| openstackgerrit | caoyuan proposed openstack/governance master: Replace git.openstack.org URLs with opendev.org URLs https://review.opendev.org/655010 | 09:59 |
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| tonyb[m] | gmann: not really. It's just a new 'application' so it's just that process | 13:18 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam Mann proposed openstack/governance master: Add the re-obtaining process for 'stable:follows-policy' tag https://review.opendev.org/655984 | 17:57 |
| gmann | tonyb[m]: mriedem: tc-members: added the removal and re-obtaining tag clarification ^^ | 17:57 |
| dhellmann | I wonder if it wouldn't be better to find a way to declare the stable support for each branch | 18:05 |
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| gmann | dhellmann: it is interesting but it will be hard as some of the stable/branch might miss the backport and so hard for upgrade. for example if stable/pike is stable-support and stable/queens is not and stable/rocky is again stable-support. in that case upgrade from stable/pike -> stable/queens->stable/rocky is too hard and might not work ? | 18:31 |
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| mriedem | if you can't upgrade you'd probably lose your upgrade tag as well, | 18:35 |
| mriedem | related to following standard deprecation | 18:36 |
| mriedem | and at that point you're voted off the island | 18:36 |
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| dhellmann | we already have a policy that backports have to go back one branch at a time, so I'm not sure why that would affect this. If anything, it makes it easier for teams to say that rocky is stable but stein is not, which seems to be what the trove team cares about | 18:49 |
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| dhellmann | I mean, the trove situation might not change, they may say they're not supporting any of those old branches at all. But saying that it's all or nothing feels uncompromising. | 18:49 |
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| mugsie | dhellmann: I like the idea of saying "from this point back we are stable" | 19:08 |
| mugsie | Point forward even | 19:08 |
| mugsie | Especially with teams that are trying to reboot a project, I think it adds an extra layer of hardship for those teams | 19:09 |
| mugsie | They had no input to what was backported or developed for a release | 19:10 |
| dhellmann | I don't have a problem with the trove team declaring past releases unsupported at all. | 19:11 |
| dhellmann | The point of that tag is to express to *users* what the state of the code is, not to box the contributors into a bunch of rules. | 19:11 |
| dhellmann | If the rules end up broken, we could just say "ah, well, we're going to have to live with that" and remove the tag from the release | 19:11 |
| fungi | yeah, i don't want the project maintainers getting too hung up on governance tags as if they're badges of (dis)honor | 19:12 |
| dhellmann | they are supposed to be an incentive to meet that standard, but there are lots of reasons why it might be ok not to | 19:13 |
| gmann | pointer forward-only for stable support can work. | 19:18 |
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| smcginnis | Per-release would be hard, because it could be stable policy compliant today, and tomorrow they could decide to backport something that makes it not. | 19:31 |
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| mugsie | But there will be cases where a release will need to loose that tag - e.g. when new team takes over | 19:35 |
| mugsie | I suppose bitrot is kind of stable, but not what we should be promoting | 19:35 |
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| smcginnis | I think that's a different slice though. Stable backports should and will happen either way. But from one release of stable/queens to the next release of stable/queens, the first could be compliant with stable policy, but the next could have picked up a change that makes it non-compliant. | 19:41 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : oh, if I said "release" I meant "series" | 19:45 |
| dhellmann | basically, apply the tag to each branch | 19:45 |
| dhellmann | rather than each repo | 19:45 |
| smcginnis | dhellmann: That was based on mugsie's comment. | 19:45 |
| dhellmann | I suspect he's using the terms the same way, but maybe not | 19:45 |
| smcginnis | But my point earlier was also that a series can change, so not sure if it makes sense to apply it that way either. | 19:46 |
| smcginnis | stable/queens can be compliant. Until it's not. | 19:46 |
| dhellmann | well, if the series changes today the team loses the tag for *all* series. I'm suggesting that we just remove it for the series that is not compliant. | 19:46 |
| smcginnis | I guess we would have to have some kind of agreement with the team that they will preserve certain stable branches then. | 19:47 |
| smcginnis | That makes it a little challenging. | 19:47 |
| smcginnis | Tracking that they are still following that for some but not other branches as well as for them to be able to backport fixes to a compliant branch without needing to pick up other non-compliant changes. | 19:48 |
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| dhellmann | suppose the trove team had said (and they didn't, but suppose) they would maintain the stable policy for releases up to stein, but they hadn't really finished stein so wanted to backport features, but they would stop doing that at train. Today, with our policies, the only way for them to have the stable tag at all is for stein to go EOL in 2 years. | 19:48 |
| dhellmann | if we're not already tracking whether they are following the policy in all of the branches, I'm not sure what the point of having a review is. | 19:48 |
| smcginnis | We are. But it puts an extra burden on stable reviewers to know at which point to care about stable policy and where to ignore it. | 19:49 |
| smcginnis | Certainly possible, but it complicates things. | 19:49 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that's fair. I imagine we could come up with something like what we did in the releases repo to put a banner at the top of some job | 19:49 |
| smcginnis | That could help. | 19:50 |
| dhellmann | or even a bot that just comments on patches to stable branches | 19:50 |
| dhellmann | which could also be implemented as a job, so we don't need a long-lived bot, but the point is I think we could expose the data | 19:51 |
| smcginnis | Like I said, it complicates things. ;) | 19:52 |
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| dhellmann | I'll take complicated over punitive | 20:04 |
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| gmann | we are having only one case as of now, IMO we should wait if there are large number of such request from projects | 20:07 |
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