Thursday, 2019-06-06

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openstackgerritThierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Defining popup teams
openstackgerritThierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Adding Image Encryption as a popup team
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lbragstadjust double checking, but the meeting is in an hour and 45 minutes, right?12:16
asettleI mean12:17
asettle I wrote the damn email12:17
asettleYes. In an hour and 45 minutes12:18
* asettle head desk12:18
lbragstadsweet - just making sure my calendar was right12:23
lbragstadthanks asettle ;)12:23
jrollthanks for the reminder :)12:27
asettleMight just do a casual ping aye12:32
asettletc-members - don't forget the team meeting in 1 hour and 30 minutes from now. That's 1400 UTC for those playing along at home.12:33
asettleYour host will be me, a benevolent dictator of meetings12:33
asettleWe shall be running through the agenda as a recap of all the things.12:34
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asettletc-members half an hour thank ye13:32
gmanno/ thanks for reminder asettle.13:33
asettleI'm all about the reminder life13:34
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asettleNever not a jam13:35
asettleAlso I should point out for everyone that the last time I hosted an IRC meeting was like, 2018 so this might be um... fun13:35
smcginnisNot much has changed. ;)13:36
asettleJust some classic hashes and startmeetings and other good stuff then fab fab13:36
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smcginnisasettle: I thought I would be around for the meeting, but just found out I have a conflict. I will follow up on any questions if needed, but I think the zaqar issue I raised is looking a lot better than it was Monday.13:52
asettleOkay neato13:52
* asettle uses toilet paper roll as a megaphone: tc-members 5 minutes please13:55
* dhellmann lines up outside the door to the conference room13:55
asettleGrab your tea, grab your cuppa joe, line up, line up13:56
asettleSmoke now or you'll really want to once the meeting is done with me13:57
* fungi has fluidic caffeine in hand13:57
asettleGood to define what state the caffeine is in13:57
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* asettle nods knowingly13:57
* lbragstad throws a couple extra strong americanos in a beer helmet13:57
asettleI get that13:57
asettleSmart man, lbragstad13:57
asettleWe'll be doing a classic Alex Goes Really Fast Through Agenda Items Meeting13:58
asettleIt's a style13:58
lbragstadcaffeinating without hands...13:58
fungiooh, i need a coffee helmet too. great idea13:58
asettleHonestly it's genius13:58
fungior just an iv drip13:58
asettleWhatever works for you13:59
asettleNot everyone likes needles, really13:59
fungiand... you're on14:00
asettle#startmeeting tc14:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jun  6 14:00:05 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is asettle. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'14:00
asettle#link agenda
asettleRolling the call...14:00
asettleWill give a minute before jumping right into it14:00
* fungi rollcalls like a mouseketeer14:00
asettleEntirely inappropriate but I do love a good gif-fuelled meeting. Let it be known that I am very welcoming of reaction gifs in my hosted meetings.14:01
* mugsie opens on 2nd display14:01
asettle#topic Changes to the health check process14:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Changes to the health check process (Meeting topic: tc)"14:02
asettleThe suggestion was to remove the formality of "health checks" and focus on TC members being liaisons to projects in an effort to help manage a project's health (if required).14:02
asettleWe need to assign TC members to teams on the project team page. fungi offered to update the wiki, and asettle offered to update the ML on this change once the wiki was updated.14:02
asettleFor everyone's memory to be jogged...14:02
asettleLine 62 were our action items assigned from the PTG14:02
fungiyep, was mostly waiting for the recap to make sure before forging ahead on that task14:02
* asettle nods14:02
asettleIn summary: we're moving away from the rigidity of the "health checks" for each project, and going to focus on "liaising" with different teams14:03
TheJuliaSeems reasonable14:03
fungididn't we also discuss moving the roster of liaisons out of the wiki?14:03
asettleThe suggestion was that each TC member is assigned a group of projects. Minimum effort required would be an introductory email, and the wiki to keep track of tehse assignments14:03
mugsiefungi: we did14:03
asettlefungi, yes but in favor of ^^14:03
asettleThe SIGs are to be included in the team health checks14:03
evrardjpfungi: we did indeed14:04
fungijust making sure14:04
asettleGovernance docs to be updated - mnaser (but this to be done after we've announced and formalised)14:04
mugsieI have a patch somewhere I wrote on the plane for that, will get ti uploaded.14:04
asettleThanks mugsie14:04
dhellmannit looks like we need an action item to move that list of liaisons14:04
gmannhope liaisons things work which was not so successful till now for example- horizontal projects like QA14:04
mugsiethe issue I had was getting the info attached to sigs, as they are not defined in our repo, but i can start with projects to begin with14:04
asettlemugsie, that would be helpful14:05
asettleDo we want to assign action items in this meeting or continue to ref the etherpad?14:05
fungiright, aiui, the wiki article will go to just being at most a few brief sentences and a breadcrumb trail leading to the liaisons info on the governance site14:05
mugsiefungi: ++14:05
* asettle nods14:05
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mugsieasettle: I think in the etherpad is best (to keep it consistant)14:05
asettleDoes anyone have any concerns about being "assigned" projects to introduce yourself and informally liase with?14:05
asettlemugsie, cool sounds good to me14:05
mnaseri vote for setting up action items during this14:05
fungino concerns here14:06
asettlemnaser, you're the boss14:06
asettle#action fungi to update wiki14:06
gmannyeah action item are more useful and clear14:06
asettle#action asettle to update community via openstack-discuss14:06
mnaserit's just easier to consume for all of us afterwards (or at least i think :])14:06
fungifrom a standpoint of simplicity of implementation, liaisons can presumably be added to the projects.yaml and then rendered from that14:06
mugsiefungi: that was my plan14:06
asettle#action mugsie to update his patch14:07
asettleI like that idea, fungi14:07
mugsieI think thats what i wrote, but it is on my open source laptop :)14:07
fungiwasn't my idea, i don't think. or if it was it came up diring the ptg anyway14:07
asettleWho wants to/has time to randomly assign individuals to projects in the projects.yaml file?14:07
dhellmannmugsie : are you updating tools/ or are we dropping that?14:07
mugsiedhellmann: I had not considered that14:07
mugsiei seems like a godo thing to update14:08
fungii wonder if it needs much/any updating14:08
mnaserit probably just needs to update and do yaml changes to projects.yaml14:08
fungii suppose it could be improved to generate a patch to the projects.yaml with randomly-assigned liaisons14:08
dhellmannwell, it spits out wiki formatted text today to be pasted into the wiki. it doesn't modify projects.yaml14:08
mugsiejust to write out the info in the yaml file possibly? But thats a CR issue for later :)14:08
mnaseri can pick that up.14:08
dhellmannprobably not a top priority, either way14:08
asettle#action mnaser to update yaml file with liaisons14:08
asettleBrilliant okay14:09
asettleANy further questions or actions for this topic?14:09
dhellmannI think that last action isn't right.14:09
asettleOh, there's a lot going on here14:09
dhellmannmnaser said he would update the tool, but mugsie is already updating the yaml14:09
asettleAh my bad14:09
asettleHow does one erase an action?14:09
fungiyou can #undo an #action14:09
asettleOH neat14:09
fungijust #undo on a line by itself14:09
asettle#undo #action mnaser to update yaml file with liaisons14:10
openstackRemoving item from minutes: #action mnaser to update yaml file with liaisons14:10
asettle#action mugsie update yaml file with liaisons14:10
asettle#action mnaser to update the tool14:10
asettleOkay, sorry folks14:10
fungii think it ignores everything after the #undo regardless, but that works ;)14:10
fungijust undoes whatever the last command was14:10
asettleWell now it's definitely undo14:10
asettleSo, win win14:11
asettleAnything else?14:11
asettleNo rest for the wicked here people14:11
fungikeep it movin'14:11
asettle#topic Evolution of the help-most-needed list14:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Evolution of the help-most-needed list (Meeting topic: tc)"14:11
asettlethis was discussed and decided to become an uncapped list, adding docs surrounding annual re-submission for items. We will go through the action items on this list (line 84 of the etherpad). Business cases requiring updates.14:11
asettlegmann, provided an update the other day, thanks gmann14:12
asettlezaneb, be doing a thang14:12
asettleLook at us14:12
zanebreview above is to change the name and format14:12
asettlettx, update on the survey changes?14:12
lbragstadthere are a couple of reviews left that are looking for reviews14:12
asettleevrardjp, ping for this discussion14:12
zanebevrardjp and I had a discussion yesterday on how to move forward14:12
asettlezaneb, TL;DR please for the purpose of the meeting :)14:13
gmannzaneb: +1 thanks for that.14:13
zanebhis suggestion was to copy the existing ones into a 2018 directory14:13
gmanni  think we should keep old list till we fill items in new structure.14:13
zanebalso we have an etherpad to start working on massaging them into the new format14:13
gmannzaneb: and with same url right ?14:13
asettleIndividuals have stepped up to refactor. Anything require volunteers still, zaneb ?14:14
mugsiewe should - myself and wendar have already talked to Oregan State University about this, and I would prefer not to delete the content as we are talking to them14:14
zanebgmann: no. only the 2019 stuff will be linked directly from the page (until next year)14:14
ttxasettle: which survey changes ?14:14
asettlettx, action item on the etherpad for this topic on line 86: Suggest adding questions in user survey (ttx)14:14
gmannok, but till we fill new items, old link will keep pointing to old list ?14:14
ttxWe discussed adding TC questions and iirc came up with a shortlist14:14
zanebyeah, also we don't plan to merge that review until we have content to go up14:15
ttxdhellmann: did you drive that TC questions in survey effort?14:15
asettlettx, anything further on that one?14:15
ttxISTR you did14:15
zanebstill need volunteers to rework the existing text from that etherpad into investment opportunities instead of begging for help :)14:15
ttx(I did suggest it, they said of course, and we did come up with questions)14:15
mugsieI think "what projects do you contribute to" and a "what is stopping you contributing" were two (just a lot better worded)14:15
fungithat sounds right14:16
lbragstadzaneb so - expanding the value section, right?14:16
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asettlettx, gracias14:16
fungiso are those in a state we can get them in front of osf staff maintaining the survey?14:16
ttxnot taking any credit for teh questions as someone else [tm] drove that :)14:17
asettlezaneb, we probably need someone who is more business minded than our techy selves for that. That was half the problem in the first place.14:17
zaneblbragstad: more just putting it front and centre. there's a template:
AlanClarkzaneb - if you point me to the etherpad with some simple instructions and timeframe (deadline) I'm happy to help with the text14:17
evrardjpAlanClark: good to hear :)14:17
fungiwoo, a great volunteer. thanks AlanClark!14:17
zanebAlanClark: thanks!
asettle#action AlanClark to help update investment opportunities document in etherpad.14:17
lbragstadthanks AlanClark14:18
asettle#action zaneb to liaise with AlanClark and provide appropriate deadline14:18
dhellmannttx: yes, the question was added to the survey14:18
gmannAlanClark: thanks. really very helpful14:18
asettleOkay, anything further on this item?14:18
asettlelbragstad, zaneb evrardjp ?14:18
* lbragstad doesn't have anything14:18
lbragstadi like how this is shaping up14:18
gmannnothing  from me14:18
asettle#topic Goal selection is changing14:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Goal selection is changing (Meeting topic: tc)"14:18
asettleThe way goals are being selected for the upcoming release will change. For Train, we will work on socialising the idea of proposing goals that are OpenStack-wide, but not tech-heavy. The new goal selection process splits the goals into "goal" and "implementation". Further details at the meeting. See line 101 of the etherpad for action items.14:19
mugsieI have not moved on this yet - I need to transcribe my notes into a patch14:19
asettleThank you mugsie14:19
asettleFor those who were not in the room, any questions on why/what is happening here before we dive into action items?14:19
asettleSpecifically looking at jroll and TheJulia14:20
asettleand gmann14:20
gmannnot much idea on details. but waiting for mugsie patch to get into details and discussion14:20
asettleGood plan, stan14:20
fungiwhat was the sequence we came up with for approving these?14:20
asettlemugsie, do you have an estimation on when you'd be able to update?14:21
dhellmannI don't remember why we said new goals would not be "tech heavy" can someone remind me of that?14:21
asettledhellmann, oh that was me14:21
* zaneb doesn't remember that either14:21
TheJuliaasettle: Nothing from my end, the notes made sense to me14:21
jrollI don't see the problem we're solving written on the etherpad, so it's hard to understand what we're trying to accomplish by changing the process14:21
asettleSocialising goals so that individuals realise ANYONE can propose a goal (AKA PDF goal)_14:21
zanebalso Train is like fully underway...14:21
asettleIt was about socialisation of the goal process14:21
asettleI wrote it badly in the agenda, sorry. I was in a rush14:21
dhellmannah, so proposals do not need to have all of the implementation details?14:22
mugsiezaneb: I thought this was for post train?14:22
dhellmannthat bit does seem familiar, as a way to have goal ideas collected earlier14:22
lbragstadwe received feedback from people saying they were surprised that the goal wasn't super focused on writing code14:22
mugsiedhellmann: yeah, for the first stage (thats what I have in my notes anyway)14:22
zanebmugsie: that would make more sense14:22
asettledhellmann, of sorts, yes. And also that a goal can *be* anything, as long as it applies across the whole community14:22
fungii'm assuming the plan is still not to approve the goal part before there's any implementation written (even if we approve it assuming we'll discover that the implementation needs further refinement on the ground)14:22
asettlelbragstad, yes thank you14:22
dhellmannasettle : ok, thanks for clarifying14:22
mugsiefungi: yeah, thats what I understood14:22
asettle#action asettle to clarify "tech-heavy" in the agenda.14:23
fungiokay, seems i remembered correctly then14:23
fungithe etherpad was vague on the process change14:23
asettlejroll - it was a retrospective, less of a problem. We talked about the fact we had very limited goal proposals, and we had to push really hard for those.14:23
TheJuliaIt seems like themes versus highly specific things14:23
asettleThis was a discussion around the process, and how we could improve it.14:23
gmannit will be good we can write details on etherpad and then take those on gerrit ?14:23
asettleI like that idea, gmann - mugsie would this be okay?14:24
fungijroll: if i haven't completely imagined it, the idea was this would allow us to apply different sorts of review rules to the goal text vs the implementation plan14:24
dhellmannit would be good for someone to prune the etherpad, too, since we've done some of those things14:24
gmannalso i remember from joint leadership meeting discussion that AlanClark or someone from BoD mentioned about helping on those goal ideas ? how we can accommodate that process?14:24
asettleAny takers?14:24
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zanebgmann: there was a thread on the foundation list about that14:25
lbragstadi can take a stab at it14:25
asettle#action lbragstad to prune the community-goals etherpad14:25
mugsieI saw that the BoD were interested in suggesting some goals on the foundation list14:25
gmannzaneb: ohk, thanks will check14:25
asettlethank you14:25
jrollfungi: thanks, that makes some amount of sense. seems like a lot of work for a review rules optimization, but I guess folks seem eager to do it so /shrug14:25
fungiyeah, goal suggestions welcome from everyone in the community, including board members ;)14:25
asettleRight - any further action items here or questions?14:26
fungijroll: the hope is that it reduces the actual work of iterating on goal implementation plans14:26
AlanClarkgmann - I am interested in having the board participate on the goal ideas.14:26
fungii'm good14:26
jrollthanks fungi14:26
gmannAlanClark: +1.14:27
asettleAlanClark, that's great to hear. Let's talk about that after this meeting and ensure the board is aware of how the ycan do that. The process is open to them now.14:27
dhellmann#link foundation-board thread on proposing themese14:27
asettleOkay, let's skidads - we're only halfway through14:27
asettle#topic Pop-up teams14:28
*** openstack changes topic to "Pop-up teams (Meeting topic: tc)"14:28
asettleOfficially recognised and implemented into governance thanks to ttx.14:28
ttxwell not approved yet14:28
asettleEveryone please review14:28
asettleAnd I'm missing the link handy to the other one, sorry ttx14:28
ttxjust posted a fix for your suggestions asettle14:28
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asettlettx, yes I saw :) thanks for doin that. I'll review again shortly.14:28
ttxthe other one is linked from the first one14:28
asettleNeat. Any questions on the pop-up teams?14:28
dhellmann#link adding image encryption as a popup team
asettleThanks for those patches, ttx14:29
asettleGracias, dhellmann14:29
asettle#topic SIG governance14:30
*** openstack changes topic to "SIG governance (Meeting topic: tc)"14:30
asettlericolin ?14:30
asettlericolin and I are in the process of defining what SIG governance looks like. 137 in the etherpad for action items14:30
asettleClarify that it's okay to disband/part of life cycle + evaluating SIGs over time (ricolin)14:31
asettleLiaisons for SIGs from the TC (ricolin, asettle)14:31
asettleReach out to OSF/UC to increase content/question in user survey (ricolin, asettle)14:31
ricolinThe upgrade sig is gone, and doc SIG might be on the way14:31
ricolinasettle, give me a sec14:31
asettlericolin, np14:31
ricolinSo I'm wondering if this looks like right format for that action14:32
asettleI still need to review more (I'm yellow)14:32
asettle#action asettle to review ricolin's etherpad for SIG items14:33
ricolinI try to separate those as Long/short term Mission oriented or Require deliverable service14:33
ricolinto explain goals, popup, SIG and project14:33
fungii'm interested in having a discussion after the meeting on where things like the technical election officials and vulnerability management team fall into the growing taxonomy of group structures we have14:34
ricolinIf that sounds like right, I can push it up for review14:34
fungi(doesn't have to be immediately after the meeting, just when folks who are also interested in this topic have time)14:34
asettlericolin, maybe tc-members should review the etherpad first14:34
ttxalso I wanted to list all of out social constructs on a single diagram, like what the Kubernetes community does to explain SIGs, committees and workgroups they have14:35
asettle#action tc-members to review goal, popup, and SIG project etherpad
asettlettx, that's a good suggestion14:35
ttxI found that useful14:35
asettleCould you share a link, ttx ?14:35
ricolinttx +114:35
ttxwas on slides... let me see14:35
asettleThank you ttx14:35
ricolinttx I think that's what's short from my etherpad docs14:36
asettleAnything further ricolin ? Sorry to cut short, but we need to move fast. Lots to cover :)14:36
ttxwill link if I find it14:36
ricolinasettle, fine for now14:36
asettleThank you both :)14:36
asettle#topic Python 3 check in14:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Python 3 check in (Meeting topic: tc)"14:36
asettlemugsie, this was on your plate again. Also, discussion about checking in with Swift and seeing where they were at14:37
asettleSee lines 146 of the etherpad for action items14:37
mugsieyes - the -train jobs seem to have been proposed across the projects14:37
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mugsieI need to sync with dhellmann or release-team to find the code for the proposal bot :)14:38
* ttx screencaps14:38
zanebbtw this action is captured in the Train goal14:38
zanebwhich we have a champion for and is ready to approve14:39
mugsiewe had it marked as the liason14:39
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asettle#action mugsie to sync with dhellmann or release-team to find the code for the proposal bot14:39
asettlemugsie, we sure did14:39
asettletc-members - who was the swift liaison?14:39
mnaserlet me grab that14:39
zanebhmm, I might be one of them :)14:40
asettlettx, excellent14:40
asettlemnaser, okay thank you14:40
asettle#action mnaser to sync up with swift team on python3 migration update14:40
mnaser(the list was not updated due to discussed earlier, but cdent and zaneb)14:40
* asettle nods okay14:40
asettlezaneb, sync up with mnaser?14:40
ricolinttx thx14:40
zanebcan do14:40
mnaserthanks zaneb.14:40
asettleWe are over halfway team!14:40
asettle#topic Leaderless projects14:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Leaderless projects (Meeting topic: tc)"14:41
asettleSummary: it's a concern14:41
asettleAction items were on line 185 of the etherpad. Suggestions include reworking the documentation around the current role of the PTL and providing tips on how to "be a better PTL" and offering shadowing and mentoring for potential candidates. This all needs to be socialised further.14:41
fungiwe've had one recently go missing after being assigned outside normal electoral process, right?14:41
asettleWe had a number of interested parties on this item. Including jungleboyj , timburke_ , me apparently, ttx and ricolin14:41
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asettlefungi, we have indeed14:42
zanebfungi: was this Zaqar?14:42
ttxI was interested in helping better document PTL expectations14:42
asettleBen Nemec also shared his PTL tips and tricks14:42
TheJuliaI think this also lines up with kind of preventing burnout in the community. PTL is very much a role that essentially puts people on a train to burnout14:42
ttxsince the current content in the projectteam guide is a bit overwhelming14:42
fungizaneb: yes, not sure the action items we established for this would necessarily have solved that case14:43
asettlettx, that it is14:43
ttxwith an eye toward encouraging delegation14:43
gmannis this to improve the existing doc or new doc/process ?-
ttxI'd improve existing content14:43
ricolinttx we definitely need to update the guideline, so +114:43
asettleWe want to encourage people to take on the role, but we need to make sure it isn't too much for people14:43
asettlettx, ricolin - let's sync up sometime and review the PTL section. Cool?14:43
asettleAnyone else want to volunteer to help?14:44
ricolinasettle, yes14:44
gmanni like to idea to circulate this doc to elected PTL(new or old)14:44
zanebfungi: fwiw we found reviewers to approve the patch to get their gate working again14:44
asettlegmann, I believe this has been something we've been trying to do. Definitely was brought up that people didn't know it existed.14:44
asettle#action asettle ttx ricolin to sync up and review the PTL section of the project teams guide to improve the PTL experience14:44
fungizaneb: thanks, that's a relief14:45
asettlegmann, we also  talked about offering better peer mentorship14:45
asettleGroovy dudes14:45
asettleAnything else on this topic?14:45
asettleCoolio hoolio14:46
asettleSO CLOSE14:46
asettle#topic Kickstarting innovation in Openstack14:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Kickstarting innovation in Openstack (Meeting topic: tc)"14:46
asettlezaneb,  proposed a zany (har har har) suggestion regarding a new multi-tenant cloud with ironic/neutron/optionally cinder/keytstone/octavia (vision will be completed with k8s on top of OpenStack). Suggestion was for new whitepaper written by zaneb and mnaser.14:46
asettleHow's that going along, fellas?14:47
zanebI am still working on this14:47
asettleAny updates to share with your fans?14:47
zanebmostly talking to networking experts to make sure that we propose something that isn't actually insane14:47
mugsie#link (for the pun)14:47
mnaseri have not sync'd up with zaneb on that but i've done some (personal) work on trying something like that14:47
evrardjpzaneb: that phrase doesn't work14:47
zanebtl;dr networking is hard14:47
asettlemugsie, excuse you I clearly thought long and hard about that one14:47
mugsiezaneb: yes, yes it is14:47
asettlezaneb, mate preach14:48
johnsomlol, zaneb let me know if I can answer anything with Octavia14:48
asettlejohnsom, dude do you have an octavia ping setup?14:48
evrardjpjohnsom: I thought you wanted to answer everything with it? :p14:48
asettleSo hilariously eerie when people just APPEAR14:48
zanebit's been on the back burner, but I need to sink some proper time into it again14:48
mugsieasettle: yes, he does14:48
johnsomMany folks lurk watching over the TC.  lol14:49
evrardjpthanks zaneb. That will be a very interesting read :D14:49
asettlezaneb, anythi ngelse?14:49
zanebI imagine johnsom has his IRC client set up to ping him whenever anyone says "networking is hard"14:49
asettlejohnsom, I hope they're all enjoying my gifs14:49
ttxjohnsom: come for the TC, stay for the GIFs14:49
evrardjpzaneb: I hope it's not "octavia" as his ping14:49
fungithis seems a lot like a "constellation" (even though i know we basically stopped trying to artificially generate some)14:49
asettleThat's cause my gif game strong!14:49
* asettle flexes 14:49
mugsiefungi: a little bit, yeah14:49
johnsomttx Totally accurate14:49
asettleOkay but seirously zaneb we goo?14:49
ttxso many GIFs... I feel younger already14:49
ricolinthe gif better be there ever since!14:50
fungiso many gifs it's like being back on compuserv14:50
evrardjpasettle: you now have "peer pressure"14:50
asettleevrardjp, mate I can HANDLE IT14:50
evrardjproll for initiative!14:50
zanebyes, let's move on because there's not much to report yet because I am lazy14:50
asettleOkay let's rock 'n' roll homies14:50
asettle#topic Deleting all the things!14:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Deleting all the things! (Meeting topic: tc)"14:50
asettle^^ obviously have to add14:50
asettlemugsie, or as I like to call you in my head, muggles - update us!14:51
ttxthat guy looks a bit like mugsie indeed14:51
asettleSee line 234 for action items14:51
evrardjpbetter with the fire meme14:51
asettleIn summary: Should we be deleting things? Yes we should! (with caveats)14:51
mugsieI tried writing this up, but couldn't get something I liked, and it fell of the burner14:51
ttxmugsie: as long as you did not delete it...14:51
asettleI have noticed that a lot of the AIs here are mugsie - perhaps we could be sharing the load here?14:51
evrardjpttx: haha.14:52
zanebmugsie: that sounds messy14:52
asettleDoes anyone else feel like they could pick up the action item for deleting unmaintained things?14:52
mugsieit was. there was words all over the office14:52
asettleDon't everyone offer at once hey14:52
mugsieits ok, it was my hobby horse14:53
asettleAlright, ping if you need assistance mugsie14:53
evrardjpI thought we didn't really have to write that up. "It's okay to delete stuff"14:53
mnaseri think the action is probably to socialize deleting things, rather than doing it ourselves D:14:53
evrardjpmnaser: probably14:53
mugsiewe need to make it clearer, and fix the tags to allow it be better14:53
asettleWho wants to write that email?14:53
fungievrardjp: more about encouraging folks to delete things which are an unnecessary maintenance burden14:53
evrardjpmugsie: oh that was the action item? Change the tags?14:53
evrardjpfungi: that's what I meant, sorry for my poor english again14:54
asettleGUYS 5 MINUTES14:54
asettleTALK AFTER14:54
asettleMUGSIE FINE14:54
smcginnisasettle is in shouting mode. :)14:54
evrardjpwell if it's not to talk about this, couldn't this be an email?14:54
mugsieevrardjp: yes14:54
evrardjpok let's move on14:54
asettle#topic Forum session planning14:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Forum session planning (Meeting topic: tc)"14:55
asettleIn summary - weeeeee kinda forgot a few things14:55
asettle#link #topic Forum session planning14:55
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asettle this one was done rather hastily and we missed a few things (such as a goals session). See action items on line 243 of the PTG etherpad14:55
ttxshoudl we plan to regroup by train-2 milestone?14:55
asettlettx, for forum session planning?14:55
asettleThat seems reasonable14:55
asettleAny objections?14:56
evrardjpsounds good14:56
ttxsounds like te right moment to start talking about it14:56
zanebright now is a bit early14:56
ttxI mean le right moment14:56
fungimakes sense, yes14:56
asettle#action tc-members to regroup by train-2 milestone for Shanghai forum session planning14:56
ttxdamn now we went too fast14:56
asettle#topic Socialising successbot and thanksbot.14:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Socialising successbot and thanksbot. (Meeting topic: tc)"14:56
asettleIn summary: do it. Let's do it14:56
dhellmannwe should make sure someone actually schedules that regrouping14:56
asettleGet do it14:56
asettleYEAH YEAH14:56
evrardjp#thanks asettle for reviving thanksbot14:57
openstackstatusevrardjp: Added your thanks to Thanks page (
ttx#success asettle managed to fit all the TC agenda in one hour14:57
openstackstatusttx: Added success to Success page (
asettledhellmann, good call. You're up!14:57
evrardjpttx: I like your style14:57
zaneb#thanks asettle for running this epic marathon meeting and wrapping it up on time14:57
openstackstatuszaneb: Added your thanks to Thanks page (
asettleAw thanks fronds <314:57
dhellmannasettle : I won't be there, so it should be someone else :-/14:57
asettleOh yeah14:57
asettlettx, ?14:57
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ricolin#thanks asettle for the GIFs14:58
asettle#action ttx to schedule said milestone 2 forum meeting with tc-members14:58
openstackstatusricolin: Added your thanks to Thanks page (
ttxnot sure where to schedule it tho14:58
dhellmanncould be the chair, too, it's just to make sure we schedule the discussion14:58
lbragstadthanks all14:58
fungialso if someone is interested in extending it further, adding a #til or #tip feature should be quite simple (idea stolen from teh debian community which has a "til" irc channel for such things)14:58
asettleYou have 2 minutes to say what you need to say14:58
mnaseri can get an action item to schedule something by m-214:58
jrollthanks asettle, I'm impressed with the on topicness of this meeting14:59
* jroll votes asettle to host all meetings going forward14:59
evrardjpfungi: I like this14:59
ttxasettle: ideally we'd resurface it at the August TC meeting14:59
fungimnaser: i think ttx akready got actioned14:59
TheJuliajroll: I second the motion14:59
asettleI think mnaser might feel a bit pushed aside, hey jroll ? :P14:59
ttxany chance you can write that done wherever you take notes for agendas?14:59
asettlemugsie, that is excellent14:59
mnaseroh okay, seems fair14:59
jrollwell then, I vote for asettle to give out meeting hosting lessons :P14:59
asettlettx, hm?14:59
asettlejroll, happy to!14:59
ttxmnaser, asettle: we need to make sure it's added to the August TC meeting agenda15:00
fungiit's all about cracking the whip15:00
evrardjpasettle: sounds you just enrolled for that15:00
asettleIt's all about gif game, needing to pee and still drinking your tea15:00
asettleA fine balance, if you will15:00
ttxasettle, mnaser: (the forum prep topic)15:00
asettle#action asettle and mnaser to sort August TC meeting agennda15:00
mnaserttx: i think we'll use the last agenda as basis so we can carry that forward15:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Technical Committee office hours: Tuesdays at 09:00 UTC, Wednesdays at 01:00 UTC, and Thursdays at 15:00 UTC | | channel logs"15:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jun  6 15:00:36 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:00
gmannthanks all and asettle for chair and covering all topic. excellent job!15:00
openstackMinutes (text):
asettlethanks gmann :)15:00
* ttx getting good at passing that hot potato15:00
fungithanks asettle!15:00
ricolinthx asettle !15:00
dhellmannwell done, asettle, thanks15:00
fungiand now it's office hour15:00
asettleThanks team o/15:00
* ttx biobreaks15:01
ricolinfungi, haha15:01
asettleAh yes, office hour. Please discuss anything I didn't let you discuss15:01
dhellmanndid we ever settle the question of when the tc and ptl elections will be at the end of this cycle?15:01
fungi(also security sig meeting time in #openstack-meeting)15:01
fungidhellmann: there is a change up for review with that plan15:01
dhellmannok, cool15:01
fungithe idea was to have them run concurrently this tmie15:01
dhellmanngreat, thanks, fungi15:02
smcginnisDid we ever get cycle goals for Train?15:02
clarkbzaneb: re simplifying cloud networking I've long thought that leaning heavily on ipv6 to ensure every instance is routed, use firewalls for access control (for examples of this ovh actually does this but with ipv4), then terminate ipv4 with eg octavia would go such a long way. However for whatever reason people can't give up their 30 year old ipv4 based security models for networking even when they say15:03
clarkbshift left and use k8s15:03
asettlesmcginnis, PDF support for project docs and IPv6 support15:03
smcginnisOK, good. I didn't see those had merged.15:03
smcginnisHas there also been communication about that to let the rest of the world know? :)15:03
asettlesmcginnis, PDF - yesssss?15:04
* asettle wavers15:04
asettleGood point15:04
asettleI have no idea15:04
asettlemnaser, ?15:04
fungiclarkb: it's stockholm syndrome, folks are now unable to imagine a world without nat15:04
mugsieclarkb: yes - I cannot wait for that to be the new reality15:04
smcginnisSince I think I'm still kinda sorta paying attention and I wasn't sure, I'm betting most folks don't know that there's something expected of them at this point.15:04
mnaserthey merged, but they were not communicated.  i can either do that or perhaps if lbragstad & evrardjp want to reach out about that15:04
clarkbanyways if we want to talk innovation in openstack that to me is one way to do it rather than following everyone elses 30 year old broken model15:05
gmannshould we wait till this ?
gmannthis is going to be one of the goal, it will be good people know that and pay attention on review15:05
fungiclarkb: but how will i ever secure my servers if people know their ip addresses?!? ;)15:07
fungi(also, how can i secure my house when my street address is public record?)15:07
mnasergmann: that's fair, let me see how's that going to land.15:09
* mnaser is in midst of using two machines right now15:09
johnsomasettle Did I miss an e-mail about what we need to change for the PDF docs? Is that still WIP?15:09
asettlejohnsom, the goal has been merged, but the process is still WIP. Check it here:
asettleI need to talk to Stephen Finucane about this, but last time dhellmann and I checked this worked.15:11
asettleWe'll need to merge this, and solidify what each project needs to do.15:11
asettleHopefully I'll be able to do this in the coming weeks15:11
johnsomasettle Yeah, ok, so still WIP15:11
asettleSound right, dhellmann ?15:11
dhellmannyeah, after that lands project teams will want to check a doc job log to ensure it's working right for their repo (it shouldn't fail the job, but may fail to build PDFs)15:12
johnsomasettle For the TC, this has been one of  my concerns about the goals. It's past MS1 and we don't have the details all in place yet...15:12
asettlejohnsom, that's fair. This one is partly on me, I should have been more on top of it - apologies. I've pinged Stephen and we'll work something out in the coming weeks.15:13
mnaseryes, this is not good and it was really hard to get this done. we're looking to get htis earlier.15:14
mnaserfungi, jroll, TheJulia, lbragstad: is ready to merge but you have not voted yet, do you have any _hardpressing_ things to block it from merging?15:14
johnsomasettle It's just a trend that has been happening with the goals. The uWSGI goal burned our team and required reverts/rework due to the goal chaining mid-cycle.  </rant>15:15
mnaserit can technically go in but i'd like to at least hear some thoughts15:15
* lbragstad checks15:15
lbragstadi'll read through it15:15
asettlejohnsom, yeah of course. So that's a problem for us too, as community goals are community proposed and championed. Frustrating indeed. Hoping our new goal process will help mitigate that and ensure that while we're still getting great ideas, we're also getting better implementation details down first15:15
asettleSocialising what community goals are and how they are managed will also play an important part in mitigating frustrations.15:16
mnaserjohnsom: it's also hard on our side.  it needed a lot of shopping to find a goal, get someone to write it, shop it around, discuss it through.  it's been needing a lot of herding to get done15:16
mnaserso the process is not easy, but that doesn't justify the delays.15:16
johnsomYeah. As I have mentioned in the sessions, I hope we have a "are we ready" gate for goals before approval. Bonus points for PoC patches.15:17
asettleFeedback noted, thanks johnsom :)15:18
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Retire castellan-ui
lbragstadmnaser voted15:28
lbragstadasettle dhellmann for pruning am I only pruning things that have been *completed*?15:29
asettlelbragstad, that is my understanding, yes15:29
lbragstador things that have been *completed* as well as things that we decided aren't a good fit for community goals?15:29
smcginnisI would vote for the latter.15:31
lbragstadok - removing things that have already been crossed off/accepted as community goals cuts the list down from 35 to 24 entries15:35
lbragstadbut there are still entries that are have gone back and forth on if they are a good fit for community goals (we'll need to figure out if we want to keep them on this list of not)15:36
jrollmnaser: I'm +1 on it15:36
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Appointment of a new Vitrage PTL
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: linters: Fix missing retired-on dates
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: tools: add retired-on check
mnaserthanks, jroll15:45
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cmurphythanks for having the meeting in irc y'all, i appreciated being able to catch up on it16:43
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fungithanks for keeping us honest, cmurphy!17:20
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diablo_rojoAre tc members cool with this change?
fungiasettle: july 8 is a monday according to my calendar18:46
fungiwas it supposed to be thursday july 11?18:46
fungior are we moving tc meetings to mondays? or was this a one-off scheduling exception to deal with a major holiday in the usa falling on the thursday 4 weeks from now?18:47
fungi(and sorry if i missed any discussion around the meeting schedule)18:48
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mnaserheh, i was just about to post what diablo_rojo mentioned19:01
mnasertc-members: ^ please have a look at diablo_rojo message :)19:01
jrollseems reasonable19:02
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mnasera small +1 would be appreciated19:14
mnaserand i'll vote on it afterwards19:14
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diablo_rojomnaser, thanks :)19:15
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