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| asettle | o/ | 07:52 |
|---|---|---|
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| evrardjp | o/ | 07:57 |
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| ricolin | o/ | 08:22 |
| gmann | o/ | 08:23 |
| gmann | tc-members: Tetsuro is ready to take placement PTL position. | 08:24 |
| asettle | gmann, good news! | 08:29 |
| gmann | yeah. he will be sending mail reply soon. | 08:30 |
| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam Mann proposed openstack/governance master: Appoint Ian Y. Choi as I18n PTL https://review.opendev.org/680968 | 09:01 |
| gmann | Office hour time... | 09:02 |
| gmann | asettle: ricolin ^^ i have updated the appointed cycle for I18n | 09:02 |
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| evrardjp | that's good news indeed | 09:16 |
| evrardjp | thanks gmann | 09:16 |
| ricolin | thanks gmann +1ed | 09:45 |
| asettle | Thank you gmann | 10:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Graham Hayes proposed openstack/governance master: Explicitly declare Ussuri supported runtimes. https://review.opendev.org/679798 | 10:12 |
| openstackgerrit | Graham Hayes proposed openstack/governance master: Explictly highlight Tempest python versions https://review.opendev.org/681203 | 10:12 |
| openstackgerrit | Graham Hayes proposed openstack/governance master: Explictly highlight Tempest python versions https://review.opendev.org/681203 | 10:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam Mann proposed openstack/governance master: Appoint Tetsuro Nakamura as Placement PTL https://review.opendev.org/681226 | 11:36 |
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| ttx | gmann: thanks for catching that | 12:08 |
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| openstackgerrit | Graham Hayes proposed openstack/governance master: Explictly highlight Tempest python versions https://review.opendev.org/681203 | 12:21 |
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| openstackgerrit | Graham Hayes proposed openstack/governance master: Remove CentOS 8 from list of OSes for Ussuri https://review.opendev.org/681242 | 12:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | Tom Barron proposed openstack/governance master: Add community infra investment opportunity for 2019 https://review.opendev.org/681260 | 13:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Gradually reduce TC membership to 9 members https://review.opendev.org/681266 | 14:04 |
| mugsie | tc-members: just checking - did we say we were doing another poll for the release naming? with the top 3, and the new membership? | 14:11 |
| mugsie | and did anyone take the action to run the poll? | 14:11 |
| zaneb | I thought that's what we were saying | 14:11 |
| zaneb | mugsie: you're it | 14:11 |
| mugsie | :D | 14:11 |
| * mugsie goes to do it | 14:11 | |
| ttx | I can add more options if you want more confusion. | 14:14 |
| mugsie | ttx: you are always so helpful :) | 14:14 |
| ttx | mugsie: a pre-check for the ICAO solution reveals that it is unlikely that the complete list would pass as non-trademark-risky | 14:14 |
| mugsie | how about v->Z ? | 14:15 |
| ttx | tbd... just vetting a set is obviously more likely to trigger an issue than vertting a single name | 14:15 |
| mugsie | yea | 14:15 |
| ttx | which is why I've been looking into a set list that would still have second choices | 14:16 |
| ttx | to solve that issue | 14:16 |
| mnaser | dhellmann: makes sense on the `documentation-change` thing. | 14:17 |
| mnaser | ok, so in that case, i need to make sure we got the tag in | 14:17 |
| ttx | My best bet was to take the list of lunar features, starting with Maria, then Lacus, then... and pick the first candidates there | 14:18 |
| mnaser | ttx: seems like you weren't a fan of using openstack/releases to tag election data so maybe i'll just resort to pushing a signed tag | 14:18 |
| ttx | mnaser: i think that's OK from an automation perspective, but it's a bit of a stretch to land that in the releases repo | 14:19 |
| ttx | I liked fungi's suggestions though | 14:19 |
| openstackgerrit | Corey Bryant proposed openstack/governance master: Retire charm-neutron-api-genericswitch https://review.opendev.org/681271 | 14:19 |
| ttx | mnaser: so just make sure we tag a version of the governance toolset around elections, and refer to that | 14:20 |
| mnaser | i guess we could put a version number on it and maybe add a small comment | 14:20 |
| mnaser | and i guess we can make it jump a major version number on every "set" of tc members | 14:20 |
| mnaser | (or maybe we can come up with a release name harharhar ok) | 14:21 |
| fungi | it can be a patch version for all i care. mainly it's a matter of: we incorporate the tag name into the election configuration. that tag needs to be made after the e-mail update cutoff (per current process anyway) before electoral rolls are generated, so we know which projects were included | 14:22 |
| ttx | mugsie: so basically if ICAO wins the poll it could be shot down by a surprise trademark risk | 14:22 |
| mnaser | ttx, fungi: how does this look? https://review.opendev.org/#/c/680691/4/deliverables/_independent/openstack-governance.yaml | 14:22 |
| ttx | we'll still need a plan B for that case | 14:22 |
| mnaser | a small comment to be helpful for whoever consumes this | 14:22 |
| ttx | mnaser: works for me | 14:23 |
| mnaser | cool well you have the powa | 14:23 |
| fungi | mnaser: in that case we'd need to go back in time and update https://opendev.org/openstack/election/src/branch/master/configuration.yaml#L4 to reflect that tag | 14:24 |
| fungi | i'll grep around real quick and see what that got embedded in, if anything | 14:24 |
| mnaser | fungi: ok, sorry for the last minute change but at least moving forwards it'll be much easier | 14:25 |
| fungi | mnaser: ttx: looks like it should be safe as best i can tell, so i've pushed https://review.opendev.org/681274 depending on the release repo change | 14:31 |
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| fungi | i've also pushed https://review.opendev.org/681276 to start reporting election repo changes in here | 14:38 |
| fungi | i mentioned it a few weeks ago and there were no objections, but if anyone in here thinks it's a bad idea please say so on the change | 14:39 |
| fungi | tc-members: ^ | 14:39 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Update member roster based on Sept 2019 election https://review.opendev.org/680356 | 14:43 |
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| ttx | woohoo! new members! | 14:48 |
| mnaser | i'm proceeding with the acl changes now | 14:49 |
| mnaser | in b4 i accidentally remove myself doing it | 14:50 |
| mnaser | https://review.opendev.org/#/admin/groups/205,members | 14:51 |
| mnaser | i think that seems right | 14:51 |
| ttx | lgtm | 14:52 |
| fungi | "accidentally" removing yourself, yeah right ;) | 14:53 |
| openstackgerrit | Mohammed Naser proposed openstack/governance master: Add Mohammed Naser nomination as chair https://review.opendev.org/680414 | 14:55 |
| evrardjp | :) | 14:58 |
| asettle | fungi, reviewingggg | 14:59 |
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| gmann | fungi: thx, lgtm | 15:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jean-Philippe Evrard proposed openstack/governance master: Add JP Evrard nomation as chair. https://review.opendev.org/681285 | 15:07 |
| evrardjp | throwing my name in the ring too :) | 15:09 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Any member of the TC can approve fast tracked patches https://review.opendev.org/678212 | 15:09 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jean-Philippe Evrard proposed openstack/governance master: Add JP Evrard nomination as chair https://review.opendev.org/681285 | 15:12 |
| evrardjp | I hope I don't get judged on the first patch spelling. :D | 15:12 |
| * dhellmann tips his cap to the new tc-members | 15:16 | |
| mnaser | thanks again dhellmann :) | 15:16 |
| gmann | +1 thanks dhellmann and also lbragstad TheJulia fungi for valuable contribution as TC. | 15:18 |
| zaneb | +100 | 15:18 |
| zaneb | ooh, fun, an election! how do we even do that? | 15:19 |
| * dhellmann rushes for the door | 15:19 | |
| mnaser | i was thinking vote for whichever one you want in gerrit (or both if you want) | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | we do have a team of people designated to run elections, too | 15:20 |
| mnaser | and then by the time we hit the formal-vote deadline for both (assuming both have the total min numbers for both) we can just count there | 15:20 |
| mnaser | that will be easy and work, but if there's a third in the mix it will get harder | 15:21 |
| fungi | gmann: there's a distinct possibility i'll run again in 6 months, i just wanted to make sure the election tooling didn't fall over and crush the new election officials | 15:21 |
| gmann | fungi: +100 to see you back . | 15:22 |
| evrardjp | zaneb: hahah | 15:23 |
| mnaser | (or we can do an election, i dont really mind) | 15:24 |
| evrardjp | fungi: did we exercise the tooling enough? | 15:24 |
| mnaser | it's not like i can do it anyways :) | 15:24 |
| evrardjp | cause mnaser and I we got some exercising for you if necessary :) | 15:25 |
| * mnaser still doesn't know if we're the only 2 running | 15:25 | |
| evrardjp | yes indeed! | 15:26 |
| fungi | evrardjp: we exercised (and fixed) enough of the parts which would need changes to support running both tc and ptl elections at the same time | 15:27 |
| lbragstad | gmann ++ thanks! | 15:28 |
| evrardjp | fungi: got it | 15:28 |
| evrardjp | lbragstad: it's all natural. It was a pleasure to have you (in the meaning y'all!) on the team. | 15:29 |
| lbragstad | it was a pleasure serving - i appreciate all the help and putting up with my pestering/questions | 15:29 |
| evrardjp | isn't that part of the job desc ?:D | 15:30 |
| lbragstad | https://media.giphy.com/media/HFHovXXltzS7u/giphy.gif | 15:31 |
| mugsie | tc-members: you should have a ballot email in your inboxes | 15:32 |
| evrardjp | lbragstad: :) | 15:32 |
| asettle | mugsie, voted | 15:33 |
| asettle | I'm like lightning | 15:33 |
| asettle | SO FAST | 15:33 |
| evrardjp | :) | 15:33 |
| evrardjp | that was very fast | 15:33 |
| mugsie | even on ice | 15:34 |
| asettle | ... | 15:34 |
| asettle | LOW BLOW | 15:35 |
| mugsie | https://media.giphy.com/media/ftrPtuqQUIZ5opePYS/giphy.gif | 15:36 |
| zaneb | rofl, that photo is the gift that keeps giving | 15:37 |
| asettle | The dog or me on my ass? | 15:38 |
| zaneb | latter | 15:38 |
| asettle | Thank god it's just such a flattering angle | 15:38 |
| mugsie | asettle: I wasn't the one who put it on blast on twitter :P | 15:39 |
| asettle | mugsie, I gotta check in with my fan base on occasion. Let them know I'm human too | 15:39 |
| evrardjp | are you though? | 15:45 |
| asettle | evrardjp, unlikely at this point | 15:45 |
| zaneb | asettle: maybe do a couple more round-the-world flights to make it official | 15:46 |
| asettle | zaneb, sound advice, thanks | 15:47 |
| asettle | I'll be 10% human farts real soon | 15:47 |
| zaneb | tc-members: reminder that there's a board meeting in <counts on fingers> several hours from now https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/10September2019BoardMeeting | 15:58 |
| fungi | good reminder, thanks! | 15:59 |
| mnaser | not getting those invites :( | 15:59 |
| mnaser | thanks for the catch zaneb | 15:59 |
| mugsie | mnaser: I don't think they are sending invites anymore :/ | 16:00 |
| fungi | mnaser: mugsie: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/foundation/2019-July/002789.html | 16:00 |
| mnaser | wait, it is on my calendar | 16:00 |
| fungi | could have stood to have a reminder more recently, i agree, but there was one sent | 16:01 |
| mnaser | i see another one that was sent on aug 8th too | 16:01 |
| asettle | oh woop | 16:01 |
| fungi | i hope our chinese community and board members are still able to join: https://technode.com/2019/09/09/china-blocks-us-video-conferencing-tool-zoom/ | 16:02 |
| fungi | mnaser: i don reminder in august went to the foundation ml at least: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/foundation/2019-August/ | 16:03 |
| fungi | er, i don't see any reminder on the foundation ml in august | 16:03 |
| mnaser | oh that's a bummer re: zoom | 16:03 |
| fungi | (accidentally hit return while i was editing, sorry) | 16:03 |
| fungi | it's hard to have international collaboration when the governments for the people trying to collaborate don't want them to communicate with each other | 16:04 |
| mnaser | fungi: i hope that at least china users can use the dial-in.. | 16:05 |
| fungi | yeah, here's hoping | 16:05 |
| fungi | that's what i always do anyway | 16:06 |
| evrardjp | I cannot attend that one | 16:07 |
| zaneb | you're definitely not missing anything on zoom IME | 16:09 |
| mugsie | well, sometime there is screensharing | 16:10 |
| mnaser | executive update will likely include slides, but yeah | 16:10 |
| fungi | the slides are at least published afterward | 16:11 |
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| smcginnis | One topic for the board meeting is whether I will need to step down now that I work for Dell and there are two other Dell seats. As a community rep, I am requesting a vote to be allowed to stay. I hope I have demonstrated I am there as a voice for the community and not my company. If anyone is asked by their representatives, and you agree I'm not a corporate shill, I'd appreciate any support to | 16:14 |
| smcginnis | continue on. | 16:14 |
| smcginnis | And sorry for the campaigning here. | 16:14 |
| smcginnis | Just thought it would be good to mention it just in case. ;) | 16:14 |
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| fungi | appreciated | 16:19 |
| fungi | i don't suppose one of the corporate shills is willing to step down instead? ;) | 16:19 |
| fungi | (just kidding, of course!) | 16:19 |
| smcginnis | :] | 16:20 |
| fungi | fwiw, i do think it's cool of dell to be employing two people so invested in our community that we elected them as individual member representatives to the board | 16:22 |
| openstackgerrit | Graham Hayes proposed openstack/governance master: Remove CentOS 8 from list of OSes for Ussuri https://review.opendev.org/681242 | 16:26 |
| fungi | mugsie: ^ that's a just-in-case change i guess? | 16:27 |
| mugsie | fungi: yeap | 16:27 |
| mugsie | I am not too sure we will see a release in time | 16:28 |
| fungi | seems like a reasonable solution then | 16:28 |
| mnaser | FYI centos is already shipping py3 packages right now | 16:28 |
| mugsie | I wanted to call out that they can come back, but for the time being, they are out | 16:28 |
| mnaser | they're in the CR repo (pretty much rhel rebuilds) | 16:28 |
| fungi | centos 7? | 16:28 |
| mugsie | mnaser: not in the normal repos | 16:28 |
| mnaser | yes, centos 7 python 3.6 pacakges from redhat | 16:28 |
| mnaser | CR is pretty much a "staging" repo for pre-release, its not like some "addon" repo | 16:28 |
| smcginnis | There's no way to go with RHEL 8 instead because of the licensing issues, correct? | 16:29 |
| mugsie | it is like testing / tumbleweed | 16:29 |
| mnaser | nope | 16:29 |
| mnaser | remember | 16:29 |
| mnaser | centos is downstream of rhel, so its an already built thing | 16:29 |
| mugsie | yes - CR trickles down into testing / release branches | 16:29 |
| mnaser | nope, CR is rebuilds of _stable_ released things from redhat | 16:29 |
| mnaser | upstream of centos is redhat | 16:29 |
| mugsie | so when 7.8 is on the way, it will have pre 7.8 stuff in it | 16:29 |
| mnaser | "The continuous release (CR) repository makes generally available packages that will appear in the next point release of CentOS, on a testing and hotfix basis until formally released." | 16:29 |
| mnaser | nope, when 7.8 is *out*, it will have 7.8 stuff | 16:30 |
| mugsie | on a testing and hotfix basis | 16:30 |
| fungi | smcginnis: yes, from what i understand it has to do with whether our donor providers can work out licensing with rh to allow us to boot those images | 16:30 |
| mnaser | "At a point release stage, new sources have been released by the upstream vendor, but binary updates are not formally issued as complete until the ISOs are ready" | 16:30 |
| mnaser | https://wiki.centos.org/AdditionalResources/Repositories/CR | 16:30 |
| smcginnis | fungi: That's too bad. That could simplify some things. | 16:30 |
| mnaser | it will always contained _released_ rhel content | 16:30 |
| mnaser | its really weird and tricky because it sounds like its the other way around, but no, CR is just rebuilds of _released_ rhel content, not some newly compiled hot thing | 16:31 |
| mugsie | yeah, but not fully tested in CentOS | 16:31 |
| mnaser | sure, implying centos is that different from rhel, which it really isn't, and we're talking about dot releases here, not major leaps/jumps :) | 16:31 |
| mugsie | if it wasn;t different, we would have both 7.7 and 8 already ;) | 16:31 |
| mugsie | it is different enough that they can't get a release out | 16:32 |
| mnaser | rebuilding rpms vs building isos/installer/etc is another challenge but š¤· | 16:32 |
| mugsie | smcginnis: it would kind of help, but then if a project dev wants to debug a CI failure, they need a RHEL licence :/ | 16:32 |
| smcginnis | mugsie: Developer licenses are free, right? | 16:33 |
| mugsie | are they? I honestly have no idea | 16:33 |
| smcginnis | https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2016/03/31/no-cost-rhel-developer-subscription-now-available/ | 16:33 |
| mugsie | I either used Ubuntu, or worked somewher with a ton of licences :) | 16:33 |
| fungi | mugsie: smcginnis: yes, software developers can install rhel free-as-in-beer | 16:33 |
| smcginnis | mugsie: Hah | 16:33 |
| fungi | but booting that on a public internet service provider (particularly one which is not running rhel underneath) is apparently a separate challenge | 16:34 |
| fungi | from a licensing standpoint | 16:34 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, that makes sense. Unfortunately. | 16:34 |
| fungi | i only now what i've been told by service providers, though, i don't know where that's officially documented | 16:35 |
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| mugsie | damn! 7 voters already the new TC is much quicker off the mark than the last one :) | 17:04 |
| zaneb | it won't last ;) | 17:05 |
| mugsie | :D | 17:05 |
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| fungi | that "new tc smell" hasn't faded yet | 18:33 |
| zaneb | does anybody know what hongbin is referring to when he mentions vendors that have their own implementation of the OpenStack APIs on the ML? | 18:37 |
| zaneb | I'm aware of radosgw, obviously | 18:38 |
| zaneb | but it sounds like I might have missed another big memo? | 18:38 |
| mugsie | well, I know one big (ex) sponsor had the idea to replace everything behind nova-api with $NEW_STUFF - I am not sure it went anywhere though | 18:45 |
| mugsie | and some of the older clouds had re-implmentations of some services (e.g. keystone, back in the old days) | 18:45 |
| fungi | i wondered the same about that reply, but i don't personally know what vendors he's talking about, no | 18:47 |
| zaneb | sounds like I am not the only one in the dark then :) | 18:49 |
| zaneb | ok, I requested some clarification privately | 18:55 |
| dtroyer | mugsie: you mean Ciao? that is mostly-dead, but unlike Westly is unlikely to be revived | 18:56 |
| dtroyer | The other notable (early) API substitution I recall was Nebula using a Cassandra-based thing to back the Swift API in much the same way folks regularly do today with Ceph | 18:57 |
| fungi | i hope it's more like a "we know some companies did this at various points in the past" and not "i'm aware of companies claiming to run openstack and then falsifying refstack reports to be able to claim protected trademarks" | 18:57 |
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| smcginnis | I am aware of one company that was thinking about doing their own implementation but exposing OpenStack compatible APIs for it. | 19:09 |
| fungi | which is perfectly fine trademark-wise if they don't also claim to be openstack | 19:17 |
| mugsie | they can claim openstack api compatibility right? | 19:25 |
| fungi | yep | 19:25 |
| fungi | as far as i know | 19:26 |
| fungi | though i'm no trademark lawyer | 19:26 |
| fungi | that sounds like a fair use of the name to me at least | 19:26 |
| fungi | they may not be able to put the openstack logo next to that without express permission | 19:27 |
| smcginnis | There's | 19:27 |
| smcginnis | "OpenStack Powered" and "OpenStack Compatible" | 19:27 |
| smcginnis | https://www.openstack.org/brand/interop/ | 19:27 |
| fungi | the definition for that seems fairly narrow | 19:29 |
| smcginnis | I agree. | 19:29 |
| smcginnis | Hmm, not really thinking the UX is great with linking them off to a json file. | 19:30 |
| smcginnis | I can just imagine a product manager looking into validation and going there and being utterly confused. | 19:30 |
| fungi | i simply followed the link to https://www.openstack.org/brand/openstack-compatible/ | 19:30 |
| fungi | not seeing any json there | 19:31 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, I was referring to "Products must comply with one of the two most recent guidelines approved by the OpenStack Foundation Board of Directors. [...] The two most recent versions approved by the board are 2018.11 and 2018.02." | 19:31 |
| smcginnis | With the "two most recent versions" being links to raw json. | 19:31 |
| fungi | but it looks like it's more for "my software interacts with the openstack nova api in a compatible manner" and not "my software implements an alternative to nova while providing an equivalent api" | 19:32 |
| smcginnis | So OpenStack Powered is really the only implementation certification. | 19:33 |
| fungi | "openstack powered .*" but yes | 19:35 |
| fungi | (platform, compute, object storage) | 19:35 |
| smcginnis | "Implementationās claiming the OpenStackā¢ mark must use the OpenStack upstream code (or be using code submitted to upstream)" | 19:36 |
| smcginnis | https://opendev.org/openstack/interop/src/branch/master/doc/source/process/CoreDefinition.rst#principles | 19:36 |
| smcginnis | Not sure where that ultimately gets published. | 19:36 |
| fungi | so to take a real-world example if you have a public cloud which provides a "swift-like" service using ceph's swift compatibility api, you can't claim "openstack powered platform" but you may still be able to claim "openstack powered compute" | 19:36 |
| fungi | on the other hand, if you have a public swift-as-a-service offering which uses actual swift then you should be able to claim "openstack powered object storage" but not "... platform" or "... compute" unless you also provide all those other required services | 19:37 |
| fungi | but the ceph-as-swift-api implementation also isn't what "openstack compatible" is meant to cover | 19:39 |
| fungi | based on my reading of the description | 19:39 |
| zaneb | tc-members: board meeting is starting | 20:01 |
| smcginnis | Informal comm channel in #openstack-board. Though here works just fine too. | 20:02 |
| mugsie | there is a tool that can be run to validate the results - refstack or something | 20:02 |
| mugsie | and I think it may run the tests | 20:02 |
| fungi | yes, see https://refstack.openstack.org/ | 20:03 |
| fungi | it uses tempest with a tagged set of tests | 20:03 |
| fungi | and a separate tempestconf lib to do autodetection and build the relevant tempest configuration | 20:04 |
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| mugsie | from the centos-devel list : Then we will get back to CentOS 8 .. since because no one has it yet .. it is not a priority. | 20:34 |
| * fungi sighs | 20:34 | |
| mugsie | (which is totally fair, and I understand why they are doing it, but until then, we should look at 7.7 or the removal patch) | 20:34 |
| fungi | https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2019-September/017693.html | 20:35 |
| fungi | citation no longer needed | 20:35 |
| fungi | i appreciate that centos values arm and power cpu users even though rhel apparently does not | 20:36 |
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