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| asettle | o/ | 08:09 |
|---|---|---|
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| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Gradually reduce TC membership to 9 members https://review.opendev.org/681266 | 09:28 |
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| njohnston | o/ | 11:56 |
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| ricolin | o/ | 13:42 |
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| ricolin | fungi, do you think it's reasonable to add new tags to openstack-discussion like [sigs], [projects], etc? | 14:35 |
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| fungi | ricolin: if you can describe what they should be used for, propose a patch to add them to https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/open-community.html#mailing-lists | 14:37 |
| fungi | right now we mention using tags for specific projects and sigs | 14:37 |
| fungi | what would a [sigs] or [projects] tag be used for? | 14:38 |
| fungi | also, how would [projects] differ from [dev]? | 14:38 |
| ricolin | fungi, will write that patch after I'm send the ML out, just wondering who else might need that as you might know, I'm working on SIG guideline, and I would really like to give notice for all sigs, tc and uc without using [all] here | 14:39 |
| ricolin | In [projects] case, I guess we do can use [dev] instead | 14:40 |
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| fungi | for matters of general sig governance you could consider using [meta-sig] since the meta sig oversees all the other sigs | 14:49 |
| ricolin | fungi, yeah, I'm using [tc][uc][meta-sig] for now | 14:51 |
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| evrardjp | o/ | 15:01 |
| mnaser | o/ | 15:01 |
| ricolin | o/ | 15:02 |
| mnaser | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PVG-TC-PTG | 15:03 |
| mnaser | any tc-members update their status of "going vs maybe" | 15:03 |
| * zaneb is still going | 15:04 | |
| zaneb | got a visa and everything | 15:04 |
| mnaser | neat, congrats | 15:04 |
| mnaser | single or multiple entry? | 15:04 |
| zaneb | single | 15:04 |
| ricolin | zaneb, super | 15:04 |
| * mnaser is still trying to get that multiple entry and keeps getting singles | 15:04 | |
| fungi | i'll be there to keep a tc alumnus seat warm | 15:04 |
| fungi | tc emeritus? ;) | 15:04 |
| mnaser | 14 hours in a plane is starting to settle in though | 15:05 |
| *** weshay is now known as weshay_passport | 15:05 | |
| * smcginnis will join fungi in the corner | 15:05 | |
| fungi | we can heckle the poor saps who took our place | 15:05 |
| zaneb | mnaser: this one will be 16 hours for me. should be interesting | 15:05 |
| mnaser | i dont understand how its longer to you but the earth is weird | 15:05 |
| fungi | in my case i save nearly us$1k on airfare by driving to an airport 4 hours away instead of one only 2 hours away | 15:06 |
| zaneb | great circle distance | 15:06 |
| mnaser | what i never understand is | 15:06 |
| mnaser | most flight to the us: ~$700ish | 15:06 |
| mnaser | flight to china... also ~$700ish | 15:07 |
| zaneb | have done 14.5 hours before (on an A380). it was not _too_ terrible | 15:07 |
| mnaser | (and direct too -- so thats nice) | 15:07 |
| fungi | yeah, i can get round-trip between raleigh and shanghai for ~us$800 but norfolk and shanghai is ~us$1800 | 15:07 |
| fungi | on the same airline | 15:07 |
| fungi | connecting through the same hub | 15:07 |
| fungi | and the connecting flight is nowhere near the difference | 15:08 |
| fungi | airlines are strange | 15:08 |
| mnaser | on a super seperate note | 15:09 |
| mnaser | how does everyone here manage to deal with the sheer amount of email volume that our mailing list generates | 15:10 |
| asettle | Filterssssssss | 15:10 |
| fungi | i use mutt | 15:10 |
| asettle | Based on tags | 15:10 |
| mugsie | filters | 15:10 |
| mnaser | filters are nice but i feel like i'm missing out on certain things if i filter only on certain tags | 15:10 |
| mugsie | oh, I filter on recipt, and then scan folders for titles of emails | 15:10 |
| fungi | i also personally ingest several times the volume of e-mail that comes from openstack-discuss, as well as moderate it and about a dozen other mailing lists | 15:10 |
| asettle | ^^ what mugsie said | 15:10 |
| asettle | Aw mate we're email twins | 15:11 |
| mnaser | oh and also | 15:11 |
| mnaser | i found this really interesting discussion | 15:11 |
| mnaser | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-September/009125.html | 15:11 |
| fungi | mutt is great for things like deleting all messages in a thread with a single keypress, or hiding all future messages for a thread you know you're never going to care about (though i rarely do that) | 15:11 |
| mugsie | I use fastmail, which supports seive filters - http://paste.openstack.org/show/775425/ | 15:11 |
| mugsie | then thunderbird + threaded view, sorted by date | 15:12 |
| fungi | but yes, i also operate my own personal mta and use exim .forward file filters to sort and bucket via dozens of different rules | 15:12 |
| mnaser | hmm ok, mute is actually a good idea | 15:12 |
| mnaser | mute is gmail's "i dont care about this anymore" feature | 15:13 |
| mugsie | https://imgur.com/a/Af81OFg is the outcome for me | 15:13 |
| evrardjp | I have fastmail and evolution, I have sieve filters too, and I regroup based on interest with subject title | 15:13 |
| evrardjp | I just have admitted the fact I can't follow everything | 15:14 |
| mugsie | ^ this | 15:14 |
| fungi | i should say, i operate an mta and imap server for my address. that does provide me with a lot of extra flexibility. but then again i've been running mailservers in a professional capacity for decades now | 15:14 |
| mugsie | yeah, I decided the opportunity lost (for me) was to high to run it myself, and fastmail makes a pretty good job of it | 15:15 |
| evrardjp | fungi: I have the impression dealing with spammers or wrongly configured other servers is a fulltime job. You're awesome. | 15:15 |
| mnaser | i think mute instead of archive is a really good idea | 15:16 |
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| mnaser | cause one of the things is i archive a conversation and then it keeps going so i have to go back and forth again on it | 15:16 |
| fungi | oh, with my addresses everywhere across the internet ~99.9% of what i receive is spam, but i have a well-tuned spamassassin and clamav rig set up to reject messages over-threshold at receipt time | 15:16 |
| fungi | it's fairly low-maintenance since it's mainly just my mailboxes | 15:16 |
| evrardjp | I have a tendency to practice inbox 0, and I love deleting. So mute is equal to delete for me. | 15:17 |
| fungi | i do think if we eventually set up the mailman-nntp bridge we keep talking about, i'm likely to switch to using a usenet newsreader instead of an e-mail client for our lists | 15:17 |
| evrardjp | How can I buy a fungi hosted service? :D | 15:17 |
| fungi | evrardjp: sounds like you already do? | 15:17 |
| * smcginnis misses nntp | 15:17 | |
| evrardjp | :D | 15:17 |
| fungi | evrardjp: or something equivalent anyway | 15:18 |
| fungi | i just flat out don't trust other people with my e-mail delivery | 15:18 |
| evrardjp | I can understand that | 15:18 |
| zaneb | mugsie: that filtering looks interesting. I had to give up on tracking Gerrit notifications some time in 2015 :/ | 15:18 |
| fungi | i'm a bit of a control freak, i guess | 15:18 |
| evrardjp | or careful | 15:18 |
| evrardjp | zaneb: yeah that too. | 15:18 |
| fungi | zaneb: mugsie: yeah, i actually have filters set to discard the bulk of gerrit notifications and only deliver ones with human comments in them | 15:19 |
| smcginnis | I used to run my own qmail server until my internet provider decided they weren't actually just providing me internet and blocked certain things "for my own good". | 15:19 |
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| evrardjp | I tried at some point to have some specific rules in gerrit when owner:self or something like that, then I ... stopped for many projects. | 15:19 |
| evrardjp | smcginnis: is it only port 25? | 15:19 |
| smcginnis | That and other nefarious ports. | 15:19 |
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| evrardjp | I have asked to deblock me, so I can now host 443, but 25 and 80 are still blocked on my provider | 15:20 |
| fungi | smcginnis: indeed, i pay for a vm in a service provider. also because hosting a mailserver with no guarantee of a static ip address from my residential broadband provider is pain | 15:20 |
| evrardjp | fungi: I want to discuss this with you in more details about long term management, like updates and all! :) | 15:20 |
| zaneb | btw I sought out some clarifications on that email about people rewriting their own versions of OpenStack services behind the same API | 15:22 |
| fungi | evrardjp: sure, happy to go into more detail at any time | 15:23 |
| zaneb | apparently the rumours are: | 15:23 |
| zaneb | somebody rewrote a "core service" in Java because it was a performance bottleneck | 15:23 |
| evrardjp | zaneb: I obviously missed that email. | 15:23 |
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| zaneb | reportedly someone else rewrote "almost all" of the core services in an unknown language | 15:24 |
| mugsie | recently? | 15:24 |
| mugsie | in days gone by, yes | 15:24 |
| zaneb | no names (or dates) were provided | 15:24 |
| mugsie | but that hasn't been something I heard of in a long time | 15:24 |
| zaneb | so unfortunately this is not actionable afaict | 15:24 |
| zaneb | we could think about adding a user survey question next year though? | 15:25 |
| evrardjp | zaneb: what would that question be? | 15:25 |
| evrardjp | about performance? | 15:25 |
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| mugsie | "have you broken the terms of the trademark program"? | 15:25 |
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| evrardjp | hahah | 15:25 |
| zaneb | mugsie: there's no suggestion that anybody is doing this and using the OpenStack Powered trademark AIUI | 15:26 |
| evrardjp | I think that would be a bigger deal | 15:26 |
| zaneb | evrardjp: "Have you rewritten any of OpenStack yourself from scratch and if so what were you thinking?" | 15:26 |
| evrardjp | and we would all know and discuss about it for at least 5 months | 15:26 |
| mugsie | if they advertise it as anything other than "openstack compatible APIs" they broke the terms | 15:26 |
| ttx | Quick call for forum topics, as the deadline is soon | 15:27 |
| zaneb | mugsie: I don't think we need to discuss that, since nobody is suggesting that it is happening | 15:27 |
| ttx | We'll likely have to file the contents of our etherpads soon | 15:27 |
| mugsie | yeah, true zaneb | 15:27 |
| ttx | diablo_rojo and our TC reps on the selection committee should know | 15:28 |
| ttx | "rewriting in Java for performance" sounds suspicious | 15:28 |
| ttx | unless they also get rid of, say RabbitMQ | 15:28 |
| zaneb | sounds suspiciously like HP Cloud's authz thing, but who knows | 15:29 |
| mugsie | ttx: not all the cores (and the ones that make a lot of impact as it turns out) use RMQ | 15:29 |
| mugsie | HP Clouds control services fits that description, as does the thing RAX had for a while | 15:30 |
| mugsie | but both of those are long gone | 15:30 |
| * mnaser has been reading about NATS | 15:31 | |
| mugsie | its interesting | 15:31 |
| mnaser | https://nats-io.github.io/docs/developer/concepts/subjects.html + https://nats-io.github.io/docs/developer/concepts/pubsub.html + https://nats-io.github.io/docs/developer/concepts/reqreply.html | 15:31 |
| mugsie | honestly a lot of our RMQ traffic could be done via HTTP | 15:32 |
| ttx | mnaser: where is our Forum topics etherpad? Can't find it (again) | 15:32 |
| mugsie | nova-api -> single compute traffic over HTTP opens a lot of possibilities, and removes a reliablity issue | 15:32 |
| ttx | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PVG-TC-PTG | 15:32 |
| ttx | is for PTG | 15:33 |
| mnaser | ttx: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PVG-TC-brainstorming | 15:33 |
| ttx | thx | 15:33 |
| ttx | One more week to submit topics so we should ramp up submissions | 15:33 |
| ttx | tc-members: crunch time to suggest forum topic sessions ^ | 15:34 |
| evrardjp | mugsie: hasn't jaypipes proposed to use grpc in one of his posts? | 15:34 |
| evrardjp | thanks ttx | 15:34 |
| mugsie | yeah, but that was more of a distributed libvirt than a nova replacement | 15:34 |
| mnaser | this seems like a good tc-level topic | 15:35 |
| mnaser | as a forum session | 15:35 |
| mnaser | that can involve other operators/etc? | 15:35 |
| mugsie | yeah, it would | 15:35 |
| smcginnis | evrardjp: grpc is so last year. Now you need to rewrite in rsocket. | 15:36 |
| evrardjp | smcginnis: my bad. | 15:36 |
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| mugsie | as long as it supports IP over Avian Carrier, it should be fine ;P | 15:37 |
| zaneb | "NATS core offers an at most once quality of service." I'm out | 15:37 |
| evrardjp | smcginnis: https://media.giphy.com/media/1Qdp4trljSkY8/giphy.gif | 15:37 |
| smcginnis | evrardjp: :) | 15:37 |
| fungi | mugsie: "openstack compatible" is a protected trademark, and per previous discussion it doesn't look like it's intended to cover alternative replacement services which mimic openstack apis, it's about being able to claim that your software interacts correctly with the apis provided by "openstack powered[tm]" services | 15:38 |
| fungi | your software or hardware, i should say | 15:39 |
| fungi | it looks like it was for clients and out-of-tree drivers | 15:39 |
| fungi | based on the wording of the trademark policy for it | 15:39 |
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| zaneb | indeed, there's no trademark program for openstack-like APIs | 15:40 |
| smcginnis | The only reference I found to anything implying it wasn't OK to reimplement OpenStack but have it API compatible was an old refstack page. | 15:43 |
| mugsie | the trademark program (with the designate code sections) was intended to stop things like HP Clouds keystone re-write afaik | 15:43 |
| mugsie | designated code* | 15:43 |
| ttx | yes the famous mandatory sections | 15:44 |
| mugsie | e.g https://opendev.org/openstack/interop/src/branch/master/2019.06.json#L3495-L3562 is the code in keystone that *must* be run by the product getting certified | 15:46 |
| ttx | but then it is a honor system I think -- we only check API responses | 15:48 |
| mugsie | it is | 15:48 |
| ricolin | mnaser, FYI as action promised in meeting, just send ML out and ask feedbacks for SIG guideline http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-September/009315.html | 15:53 |
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| openstackgerrit | Tom Barron proposed openstack/governance master: Add Designate investment opportunity for 2019 https://review.opendev.org/681924 | 20:32 |
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