| slaweq | knikolla hi, I may be little bit late for today's tc meeting | 16:50 |
|---|---|---|
| JayF | slaweq: thanks for the heads up | 16:52 |
| JayF | I was asked to chair today's meeting, something came up at kubecon with Kristi. | 16:52 |
| slaweq | ++ | 16:53 |
| bauzas | I won't be able to attend today's tc meeting but I wanted to continue discussing the new release cadence impact for the relnotes | 16:53 |
| bauzas | particularly about https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/843457 | 16:54 |
| gmann | bauzas: did we conclude anything in PTG discussion ? | 16:54 |
| bauzas | good question | 16:54 |
| gmann | seems not, there is mention of writing the governance proposal but not sure will do or what exact to propose. may be knikolla[m] know ? | 16:57 |
| gmann | https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-2023-2-ptg#L199 | 16:57 |
| bauzas | yeah I had a feeling we went thru different technical details but we didn't captured specific action items | 16:58 |
| bauzas | anyway I need to drop | 16:58 |
| dansmith | I also feel like this isn't really blocking anything | 16:58 |
| dansmith | as long as the deprecations and renos happen on the slurps (in addition to the intermediate ones, if desired) the projects can just handle this themselves | 16:58 |
| dansmith | getting some reno magic happening would be nice, | 16:59 |
| dansmith | but I don't think anyone needs to be held up by it otherwise | 16:59 |
| bauzas | dansmith: true, you know I'm pushing this for the exact reason to not be responsible for doing the forward-ports by hand :) | 17:00 |
| dansmith | I know | 17:00 |
| dansmith | the easy thing is to just align those things with the SLURPs, then you don't have to remember | 17:00 |
| bauzas | but yeah, if things come up like this, surely I'll do such thingfs | 17:00 |
| bauzas | dansmith: don't get me on that one :) | 17:01 |
| dansmith | you, as PTL, get to decide, IMHO, so feel free to be on it :) | 17:01 |
| bauzas | wait, I didn't know I had such powers :) | 17:02 |
| JayF | tc-members: meeting in :35 | 17:25 |
| JayF | #startmeeting tc | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue Apr 18 18:00:18 2023 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is JayF. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 18:00 |
| JayF | #topic Roll Call | 18:00 |
| JayF | Who all is here for the meeting today? | 18:00 |
| rosmaita | o/ | 18:00 |
| dansmith | o/ | 18:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 18:00 |
| noonedeadpunk | o/ | 18:00 |
| JayF | #chair knikolla[m] | 18:01 |
| opendevmeet | Current chairs: JayF knikolla[m] | 18:01 |
| JayF | knikolla[m] asked me to chair todays' meeting as he had something conflicting at kubecon. | 18:01 |
| spotz[m] | o/ | 18:01 |
| JayF | #topic Follow up on past action items | 18:01 |
| JayF | gmann: You had an action item: gmann respond to Sahara PTL volunteer to propose a patch to governance, and explain the outcome of today's discussion | 18:01 |
| JayF | Is there an update on this? | 18:01 |
| gmann | yeah | 18:02 |
| gmann | that is done #link https://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2023-April/033321.html | 18:02 |
| JayF | Thanks for following up on that | 18:02 |
| gmann | and we have patch also #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/879847 | 18:02 |
| gmann | but PTL need to do 1 update in that | 18:02 |
| JayF | looks good, and hopefully the PTL candidate updating the patch can be a sign they will perform the needed duties :) | 18:03 |
| gmann | yeah :) | 18:03 |
| JayF | Is there anything else about sahara before we move on to the other action item? | 18:03 |
| gmann | nothing else from me | 18:03 |
| JayF | jamespage: had an action; jamespage to write email about Winstackers removal | 18:03 |
| gmann | he sent that #link https://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2023-April/033342.html | 18:04 |
| JayF | Thanks for forwarding that on to -announce as well | 18:04 |
| gmann | and I forwarded that in openstack-announce ML also | 18:04 |
| noonedeadpunk | I wonder if they will update this patch | 18:04 |
| gmann | yeah, let's see if we get any response | 18:04 |
| noonedeadpunk | As if they're not, maybe we will need to eturn to deprecation/retirement discussion | 18:04 |
| JayF | ++ | 18:05 |
| gmann | noonedeadpunk: yeah, I am waiting for update and see if they are active or not | 18:05 |
| noonedeadpunk | I will probably ping in ML later? | 18:05 |
| noonedeadpunk | or we wanna to wait and see ?:) | 18:05 |
| JayF | sounds good; lets just ensure the candidate does the update and maybe limit our involvement to encouragement and reminders :) | 18:05 |
| noonedeadpunk | ++ | 18:06 |
| gmann | we can do as not many see gerrit comment notification very often | 18:06 |
| spotz[m] | ++ | 18:06 |
| gmann | I can send it on ML next week if they do not do | 18:06 |
| noonedeadpunk | Yeah, I just can miss gerrit comment super easily | 18:06 |
| noonedeadpunk | as have really bad flow of them | 18:06 |
| JayF | That was the last of the action items; is there more to discuss here or should we move on? | 18:07 |
| gmann | yeah, i had many filter on those but still I also miss many | 18:07 |
| gmann | we can move | 18:07 |
| JayF | #topic Gate Health Check | 18:07 |
| JayF | Is there an update on gate health this week? | 18:07 |
| dansmith | we're continuing to see failures in volume detach | 18:08 |
| dansmith | which has been biting plenty of patches lately | 18:08 |
| dansmith | the nova people are cooking up a scheme to try a non-cirros guest for a while to see if it helps | 18:08 |
| dansmith | also maybe JayF you can fill us in on the ironic issues? I know the grenade patch was one thing that got approved, | 18:09 |
| dansmith | but I think there's another thing causing ironic issues lately? | 18:09 |
| JayF | I can give you a slightly-out-of-date update as I'm on day 2 of back from vacation | 18:09 |
| JayF | the only issue I'm aware of is ironic-grenade failing some % of the time, something around half, appearing to be timeouts | 18:09 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/grenade/+/879674 | 18:09 |
| gmann | still not merged | 18:09 |
| dansmith | docs failed, sheesh | 18:10 |
| JayF | uploading logs to swift timed out | 18:10 |
| JayF | That's the only recurring Ironic failure I'm aware of at the moment | 18:10 |
| dansmith | okay I thought the statement was that this was only 50% of the fails, but I see that wa sa misread | 18:10 |
| fungi | might need to bump the timeout on that post playbook | 18:10 |
| fungi | if it's happening often | 18:11 |
| JayF | dansmith: yeah, to clarify: about 50% of the runs of ironic-grenade I see fail, and those failures are timeouts when trying to ping an instance | 18:11 |
| clarkb | also look into why it is slow | 18:11 |
| dansmith | JayF: yep I got it now | 18:12 |
| clarkb | it is possible that it isn't the log uploads that are slow but something that runs prior to that and then you trip during log uploads. | 18:12 |
| JayF | clarkb: this was an openstack-tox-docs run; it's unlikely to be something systemmatic :| https://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/build/a5e91bc3cfc5490c84429f84a45281ff | 18:12 |
| clarkb | If log uploads are slow then you should consider reducing the total number of swift ojects that need to be created (each directory is a new object so if you have deeply nested logs without strict need for the tree organization you can try flattening) | 18:12 |
| JayF | or perhaps the docs job is uploading a lot for changes to grenade? IDK. | 18:13 |
| JayF | If it recurs, I will delve more deeply. | 18:13 |
| gmann | I have not see it in past, its first time may be | 18:13 |
| JayF | Is there anything else relating to Gate Health to discuss? | 18:13 |
| gmann | we can monitor if that happen more | 18:13 |
| fungi | oh, i misread, it was log uploads not the built documentation file uploads | 18:13 |
| dansmith | yeah I rarely see docs jobs failing, so I think it's a fluke | 18:13 |
| fungi | most likely temporary problem at the cloud provider or on the network | 18:14 |
| clarkb | its neither | 18:14 |
| clarkb | https://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/build/a5e91bc3cfc5490c84429f84a45281ff/log/job-output.txt#1279 | 18:15 |
| clarkb | the logs uploaded fine and did not timeout. The Job run phase timed out running tox | 18:15 |
| clarkb | a good chunk of time was eaten here as well https://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/build/a5e91bc3cfc5490c84429f84a45281ff/log/job-output.txt#823 | 18:15 |
| clarkb | (this is why I encourage people to look at logs and understand where time is going and what is actually happening) | 18:16 |
| JayF | I'm going to move on; thanks for pointing out the specific error; I clearly misread the log. | 18:18 |
| JayF | #topic 2023.2 cycle leaderless projects | 18:18 |
| JayF | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/2023.2-leaderless | 18:18 |
| gmann | we are little late on finishing it as cycle already started | 18:19 |
| gmann | we discussed to wait for Winstacker till June event but for other we need to take call soon | 18:19 |
| JayF | Yeah, we can't wait much longer. | 18:20 |
| gmann | vitrage and monasca are left for final decision | 18:20 |
| gmann | noonedeadpunk: shown interest in Vitrage or still thinking ? | 18:21 |
| noonedeadpunk | well... | 18:22 |
| noonedeadpunk | It's about picking battles | 18:22 |
| * slaweq is joining, sorry for being late | 18:23 | |
| noonedeadpunk | I will decide till next TC meeting | 18:23 |
| gmann | sounds good, thanks | 18:23 |
| noonedeadpunk | Waiting for volunteers to be frank | 18:23 |
| gmann | ++ | 18:23 |
| gmann | rosmaita: this is deps for TripleO deprecation. I replied to your comment, can you please check or we can discuss here #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/877143/1 | 18:24 |
| rosmaita | gmann: ack | 18:24 |
| gmann | making 'deprecation' field as numaric | 18:24 |
| rosmaita | it's not a number! | 18:24 |
| noonedeadpunk | it is... | 18:25 |
| gmann | well 2023.1 as numeric is more closely correct that string | 18:25 |
| noonedeadpunk | or well, it should be | 18:25 |
| gmann | s/that/than | 18:25 |
| JayF | I think the version '2023.1' should be treated as a string. I also think bikeshedding over how we treat it might not be the best use of our time. | 18:26 |
| gmann | but why not 2023.1 | 18:26 |
| gmann | we do that in release/election tooling | 18:26 |
| JayF | because it's not one tenth of 2023 | 18:26 |
| JayF | er, 2023 + 1 tenth | 18:26 |
| rosmaita | JayF: ++ | 18:26 |
| noonedeadpunk | I would suggest proposing then change to PEP | 18:26 |
| dansmith | yeah, using a float is not a good idea :) | 18:27 |
| noonedeadpunk | rather then diverting from it | 18:27 |
| rosmaita | you are misreading the PEP | 18:27 |
| gmann | yeah, why we need to consider '1' as 10th ? it is just a version of 1, 2, ... | 18:27 |
| noonedeadpunk | It's quite explicitly saying it is a string | 18:27 |
| dansmith | yeah, the pep doesn't use a float, because 1.2.3 is not a float :) | 18:27 |
| fungi | versions are almost always treated as strings, because version 2.10>2.9 while float 2.9>2.10 | 18:28 |
| rosmaita | exactamundo | 18:28 |
| dansmith | yeah | 18:28 |
| slaweq | +1, it should be string IMO | 18:28 |
| gmann | we are using only .1 and .2 :) | 18:29 |
| rosmaita | sure, but it's nice to future-proof | 18:29 |
| fungi | consistency and principle of least surprise | 18:29 |
| noonedeadpunk | `All numeric components MUST be interpreted and ordered according to their numeric value, not as text strings.` | 18:29 |
| JayF | a version is one or more numeric components | 18:30 |
| noonedeadpunk | so why we're not treating 24.0.0 as string but as number? | 18:30 |
| gmann | using 2023.1 as "2023.1" sounds odd to me | 18:30 |
| JayF | 2023 is a number; 1 is a number | 18:30 |
| rosmaita | yes, each numeric component ... that doesn't mean that the totalilty is an umber | 18:30 |
| JayF | 2023.1 is a string | 18:30 |
| noonedeadpunk | so 24.0.0 is also a string? | 18:30 |
| rosmaita | yes | 18:30 |
| dansmith | of course it is | 18:30 |
| slaweq | yes | 18:30 |
| JayF | yes, it can't be a number | 18:30 |
| gmann | humm we need to update PEP then :) | 18:31 |
| rosmaita | no, the pep allows this | 18:31 |
| slaweq | noonedeadpunk if 24.0.0 would be a number, what kind of number it would be? | 18:31 |
| dansmith | no | 18:31 |
| JayF | We still have 3 items left on the agenda; I'm going to establish a timebox to 18:35 UTC for this topic, if discussion goes past that we'll continue in gerrit. | 18:31 |
| slaweq | I'm reading this pep8 now and it even have appending called "Parsing version strings with regular expressions " so it definitely treats it as string | 18:32 |
| dansmith | "numeric components" means "2023" and "1" not "2023.1" | 18:32 |
| gmann | anyways if noonedeadpunk and I are in minority than i can change it string. It is not something we need to stuck on | 18:32 |
| gmann | but I still feel 2023.1 is not string :) | 18:32 |
| dansmith | all you have to do is put .0 at the end to prove it's a string ;) | 18:32 |
| fungi | versions are a special data type, consider it a structure consisting of multiple fields most of which are numeric, represented as a string using separators but with unique ordering which is neither a singular numeric sort nor a string sort | 18:32 |
| dansmith | >>> int('24.0.1') | 18:33 |
| dansmith | Traceback (most recent call last): | 18:33 |
| dansmith | fungi: right it's a tuple | 18:33 |
| dansmith | which we split into (24, 0, 1) and then compare that way | 18:33 |
| fungi | and in pep 440 a version can also contain some specific letters which are decidedly non-numeric as well | 18:33 |
| dansmith | the version is an encoding of a tuple of "numeric components" | 18:33 |
| dansmith | indeed | 18:33 |
| fungi | (a,b,rc,dev,post) | 18:34 |
| noonedeadpunk | yeah, ok, agree, it's a tuple indeed splited by `.` | 18:35 |
| noonedeadpunk | and indeed just each segment is int | 18:35 |
| dansmith | yup | 18:35 |
| gmann | k | 18:35 |
| * dansmith gazes upon the en-deadened horse | 18:35 | |
| JayF | Just in time for the timebox ;) Thanks all for the discussion, it's nice to have a conclusion. If there are further comments, please direct them into the gerrit review: https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/877143 | 18:35 |
| gmann | I will update it to string | 18:36 |
| JayF | #topic Broken docs due to inconsistent release naming | 18:36 |
| JayF | I'm unfamiliar with this topic; does someone have details? | 18:36 |
| noonedeadpunk | Yeah... | 18:36 |
| noonedeadpunk | JayF: check upper header https://docs.openstack.org/ironic/latest/ | 18:36 |
| noonedeadpunk | That says `This release is under development. <problem here>`1 | 18:37 |
| rosmaita | that's not good | 18:37 |
| JayF | 2023.1.antelope is not really a version identifier we use anywhere, right? | 18:38 |
| JayF | antelope is not a number for sure :D | 18:38 |
| noonedeadpunk | Have no insight though how to fix. Patch proposed before borked docs completely | 18:38 |
| gmann | and this is also not redirected https://docs.openstack.org/2023.1 now | 18:38 |
| dansmith | JayF: wait, I feel like I could argue this one | 18:38 |
| noonedeadpunk | because it's | 18:38 |
| noonedeadpunk | https://docs.openstack.org/2023.1.antelope/ | 18:38 |
| gmann | yeah | 18:38 |
| dansmith | >>> sum(ord(x) for x in 'antelope') | 18:38 |
| dansmith | 856 | 18:38 |
| dansmith | bam, done. | 18:38 |
| rosmaita | https://docs.openstack.org/latest is redirected to https://docs.openstack.org/2023.2.bobcat/ | 18:39 |
| gmann | this is try from frickler to fix but it did not work and reverted #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/880060 | 18:39 |
| gmann | rosmaita: humm, many issue here | 18:40 |
| JayF | The longer we stay in this state, the more negative impact the change could have on things like search engines, too, if we aren't careful | 18:40 |
| noonedeadpunk | we'll need to have redirects at this point anyway I believe | 18:40 |
| gmann | yeah, we cannot break existing links | 18:41 |
| frickler | the main issue imo is that pages like https://docs.openstack.org/2023.1.antelope/projects.html are essentially empty | 18:41 |
| gmann | and having https://docs.openstack.org/2023.1 and https://docs.openstack.org/latest is something we should have | 18:41 |
| rosmaita | heh ... i just realized after all these years that "Jesse Proudman, OpenStack Operator" is a fictional character | 18:41 |
| clarkb | rosmaita: Jesse is a real person. Not sure if the persona in the docs is super accurate though | 18:42 |
| rosmaita | clarkb: that makes me feel better | 18:42 |
| gmann | and the project release note page link from main page is broken https://releases.openstack.org/2023.1.antelope/index.html | 18:42 |
| gmann | which should be https://releases.openstack.org/antelope/index.html | 18:42 |
| frickler | maybe having an etherpad with a list of issues would be a good first step | 18:43 |
| noonedeadpunk | ++ | 18:43 |
| gmann | https://docs.openstack.org/ is redirected to https://docs.openstack.org/2023.1 | 18:43 |
| gmann | ++ on etherpad and list issues | 18:43 |
| JayF | Lets make sure once that list exists, we email the mailing list about it, too? | 18:43 |
| fungi | (jesse proudman was an og stacker, later founded bluebox) | 18:44 |
| JayF | There might be folks unaware there is an issue with knowledge/desire to help (maybe?) | 18:44 |
| fungi | hoping to reach remnants of the old docs team and tech writing sig? ;) | 18:45 |
| JayF | Can we specifically mark someone down for that action so we can follow up next week? | 18:45 |
| JayF | fungi: honestly? maybe... | 18:45 |
| fungi | worth a shot | 18:45 |
| gmann | we should fix it asap also | 18:45 |
| JayF | frickler: are you willing to take that action to enumerate issues and hit the mailing list about it? | 18:46 |
| frickler | not really | 18:47 |
| JayF | So it sounds like we have broken docs; we do not have anyone here today willing to take ownership of the next step of the resolution. I'll ensure this item stays on the agenda for next week. | 18:49 |
| JayF | #topic Recurring tasks check | 18:49 |
| JayF | Bare recheck state | 18:49 |
| slaweq | all good there | 18:49 |
| JayF | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/recheck-weekly-summary | 18:49 |
| slaweq | I updated stats today | 18:49 |
| slaweq | and it all looks fine | 18:49 |
| JayF | Thanks for updating it, the numbers do look pretty good | 18:49 |
| JayF | Any other comments on bare recheck state? | 18:50 |
| slaweq | nothing else from me | 18:50 |
| JayF | #topic Open Reviews | 18:50 |
| JayF | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/projects:openstack/governance+is:open | 18:50 |
| JayF | we have a few open ones, to appoint PTLs and retire projects | 18:50 |
| JayF | please take a look and vote when you get a chance | 18:50 |
| JayF | is there anything else for the TC meeting before it's brought to a close? | 18:51 |
| gmann | it seems 17 open reviews and many of them are eligible to merge? stack is increasing | 18:51 |
| gmann | I saw one more item in agenda, may be added later 'Following new release naming convention by packagers (UCA/RDO)' ? | 18:51 |
| gmann | not sure who added | 18:51 |
| JayF | it had to have been added very recently | 18:51 |
| JayF | because emailed agenda and wiki agenda matched when I checked this morning | 18:51 |
| gmann | yeah | 18:52 |
| fungi | added by noonedeadpunk according to https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Meetings%2FTechnicalCommittee&type=revision&diff=183062&oldid=183045 | 18:52 |
| JayF | noonedeadpunk: is that urgent or is it OK to sit over a week so it gets emailed out like a normal agenda item would? | 18:53 |
| fungi | (in case people didn't know how to see the wiki page revision history) | 18:53 |
| noonedeadpunk | It's ok for the next week | 18:53 |
| JayF | ack | 18:53 |
| gmann | +1 for next week | 18:53 |
| JayF | That brings the meeting to a close, thank you all for participating. | 18:53 |
| JayF | #endmeeting | 18:53 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue Apr 18 18:53:43 2023 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:53 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2023/tc.2023-04-18-18.00.html | 18:53 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2023/tc.2023-04-18-18.00.txt | 18:53 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2023/tc.2023-04-18-18.00.log.html | 18:53 |
| noonedeadpunk | I just spotted ML for RDO so decided to add | 18:53 |
| gmann | thanks JayF | 18:53 |
| noonedeadpunk | And that's anyway for the next cycle only at this point... | 18:54 |
| noonedeadpunk | (or wel this one already) | 18:54 |
| opendevreview | Ghanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Consider release version as string in projects data https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/877143 | 20:02 |
| opendevreview | Ghanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Deprecate TripleO https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/877132 | 20:22 |
| gmann | tc-members ^^ updated release version as string things and TripleO deprecation patch which need re-voting now. | 20:33 |
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