| *** elodilles_pto is now known as elodilles | 07:17 | |
| frickler | JayF: gouthamr: tripleo retirement is finally ready to go https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/905145 | 08:31 |
|---|---|---|
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: Retire TripleO project https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/905145 | 15:38 |
| elodilles | JayF and other TC members: I drafted the mail we talked about on PTG TC session about unmaintained gates. please read and let me know if this will be OK to send on ML / is this what you meant to send. or correct anything if i wrote something wrong :) https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/unmaintained-clock-is-ticking | 16:00 |
| gouthamr | elodilles++ good; i have a few editorial suggestions, can i suggest them inline? | 16:09 |
| elodilles | gouthamr: yes, please do that | 16:10 |
| gmann | elodilles: looks good to me. thanks | 17:07 |
| elodilles | ++ thanks o/ | 17:32 |
| frickler | elodilles: how about also adding a reference to the zuul config errors? https://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/config-errors?branch=unmaintained%2Fyoga etc., sadly the wildcard matching doesn't work for these yet | 17:35 |
| opendevreview | Vladimir Kozhukalov proposed openstack/governance master: Add openstack-helm-plugin git repository https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/916009 | 17:36 |
| frickler | elodilles: also would you like to officially register the #openstack-unmaintained channel now? given the lack of activity there I was more tending towards deleting it again | 17:38 |
| elodilles | frickler: zuul config errors added in the mail draft, please take a look | 17:41 |
| JayF | I'll note we have 3x RC+1 on https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/915754 -- gouthamr's chair self-nomination. | 17:42 |
| elodilles | frickler: as you wish regarding the channel. #openstack-stable is also quite an inactive channel, but at least the bot notifies there us about stable backports | 17:42 |
| JayF | gouthamr: you can also vote on resolutions you file, including this one | 17:42 |
| gmann | JayF: I do not think we need formal-vote there. As per process, you can merge the nomination ASAP "Current TC chair will merge the nominations by confirming that they are from the elected TC members." | 17:44 |
| gmann | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/tc-chair-elections.html#tc-chair-nomination | 17:44 |
| JayF | oh, you're right | 17:44 |
| JayF | we land the nomination immediately | 17:44 |
| gmann | yeah | 17:44 |
| JayF | and then the actual vote is taken, if needed | 17:44 |
| JayF | and if not, we just push the tag update | 17:45 |
| gmann | yeah, as there is only one candidates then we can update the member' file | 17:45 |
| frickler | elodilles: currently there are only stable/* reviews announced in #-stable and I would prefer to keep it that way. so if you want to see unmaintained gerritbot msgs, the extra channel will be needed | 17:46 |
| frickler | elodilles: the mail lgtm then, thx | 17:47 |
| JayF | #startmeeting tc | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue Apr 16 18:00:53 2024 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is JayF. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 18:00 |
| JayF | #topic Roll Call | 18:01 |
| gouthamr | hello o/ | 18:01 |
| JayF | Welcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct. | 18:01 |
| gmann | o/ | 18:01 |
| JayF | Today's meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee. | 18:01 |
| JayF | o/ | 18:01 |
| dansmith | I'm here but majorly distracted with a pressing issue, FWIW | 18:01 |
| JayF | I'm hoping, for my own reasons, it's a short quick meeting too :) | 18:01 |
| JayF | I'll note we have one noted absence: slaweq is out. | 18:01 |
| JayF | I'm going to give a couple more minutes for more tc-members to arrive | 18:02 |
| frickler | \o | 18:02 |
| spotz[m] | o/ | 18:02 |
| JayF | Well, this is 6 of us, going to get started. | 18:02 |
| JayF | #topic Follow up on tracked action items | 18:03 |
| JayF | There were two items, both are PTG/last meeting related and gmann took care of them. Thank you for that, and for running the last meeting while I was out on PTO. | 18:03 |
| JayF | #topic Gate Health Check | 18:03 |
| JayF | do we have any specific observations on the gate this week? | 18:03 |
| gmann | nothing from me. | 18:03 |
| JayF | I suspect most of us are still recovering from PTG too much to have real insights here. | 18:04 |
| gouthamr | +1 | 18:04 |
| JayF | #topic TC vPTG 2024.2 | 18:04 |
| JayF | We had one, thank you everyone for participating. I will send a summary to the list later this week. | 18:04 |
| JayF | Please review the etherpad for any action items you may have signed up for and follow up on them. | 18:04 |
| JayF | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/apr2024-ptg-os-tc | 18:04 |
| JayF | Any further comments on TC PTG? | 18:04 |
| frickler | some issues sadly were cut off, like the leaderless projects | 18:05 |
| spotz[m] | I thought it went really well | 18:05 |
| frickler | some reviews there still need attention | 18:05 |
| JayF | Yes, in general there are quite a few governance changes up that need review | 18:05 |
| JayF | Moving on. | 18:07 |
| JayF | #topic TC Chair Election | 18:07 |
| JayF | The incoming TC has to select a Chair and Vice-Chair | 18:07 |
| spotz[m] | My charter review still needs eyes, once that's approved we'll need to update the election tooling | 18:07 |
| JayF | #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/charter.html#tc-chair | 18:07 |
| JayF | spotz[m]: I put a review on that earlier, fwiw | 18:07 |
| JayF | I'll note we have one nominee, currently, for TC Char: gouthamr | 18:07 |
| spotz[m] | Yeah Goutham! | 18:08 |
| JayF | Are there any other TC members planning on volunteering/nominating themselves for TC chair? | 18:08 |
| JayF | If so, I'm happy to conduct an election with anonymous balloting via CIVS as we have in the past. | 18:08 |
| * gouthamr thinks JayF didn't make a typo there | 18:08 | |
| JayF | Otherwise; I will propose a change after this meeting putting gouthamr in charge of us all | 18:08 |
| frickler | I'd think the official candidacy period is long over | 18:08 |
| JayF | I do too, that's why this is serving as a last call | 18:09 |
| frickler | +1 | 18:09 |
| gmann | +1 | 18:09 |
| spotz[m] | +1 | 18:09 |
| JayF | Please consider volunteering to gouthamr to be vice-chair, as he will need backup and help -- in an ideal case; the vice-chair would also be willing to be the next chair. | 18:09 |
| gmann | thanks gouthamr | 18:09 |
| JayF | But for now, going to move on | 18:09 |
| JayF | #topic Open Discussion / Reviews | 18:09 |
| JayF | as mentioned by a couple others, we need to ensure we look at governance reviews: | 18:09 |
| JayF | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/status:open+repo:openstack/governance | 18:10 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: Add gouthamr's nomination to TC Chair for 2024.2 https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/915754 | 18:10 |
| JayF | Nice and timely :) | 18:10 |
| frickler | I'd like to draw particular attention to the skyline PTL appointment, where there are two applications | 18:11 |
| clarkb | Sorry missed the PTG topic but had a couple of thoughts after last week. The first is that the TC ptg schedule seems to be standing in for what we used to call the forum. A lot of topics have to do with bigger issues and design. Additionally many were cut short for time. Maybe we should try to treat those topics more specially and give them more time and perhaps specific | 18:11 |
| JayF | Yeah, was about to ask if you wanted to talk about that. | 18:11 |
| clarkb | schedule items | 18:11 |
| clarkb | or perhaps we should try and do that sort of discussion out of band of the PTG | 18:11 |
| JayF | clarkb: Honestly, I was ... yes, that, the latter | 18:11 |
| frickler | I'd consider withdrawing mine but would like to hear other's opinions first | 18:11 |
| gouthamr | :D ++ thank you for the vote of confidence and encouragement | 18:11 |
| JayF | frickler: honestly, we have an engaged person who gave a detailed response with info we've been trying to dig out for a while about why it's so hard for projects to do elections | 18:12 |
| JayF | frickler: Plus existing PTL was responsive when I asked, as chair, about pathways to getting out of emerging projects and getting into active projects | 18:12 |
| JayF | I think this is an opportunity to build a rapport with the kind of leader who might be the general kind of contributior in openstack we've had trouble reaching in the past | 18:12 |
| JayF | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/914248 | 18:13 |
| JayF | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/915108 | 18:13 |
| JayF | The ideal case, IMO, would be Wu and frickler working closely together | 18:14 |
| gouthamr | "I can commit being reachable on IRC in the skyline and TC channels 2 days per week for the whole cycle, Skyline has others 3 core developers, I can commit they alive in IRC when I was absent." - being on IRC is turning out to be challenging to some of our PTLs? | 18:14 |
| frickler | gouthamr: yes, sadly that seems to be the case for multiple PTLs already, see telemetry and others | 18:15 |
| JayF | Yes, and I'm not surprised at that. It's one of the friction points I ifnd when introducing new folks to the community. It's part of why for people working with me directly, I have an irccloud account I add them to | 18:15 |
| JayF | this is why I see this as an opportunity -- we can try to root cause some of these issues with an engaged ptl | 18:15 |
| JayF | (FSVO engaged; the RCA in the gerrit thread about how the election was missed is actually very interesting to me) | 18:16 |
| frickler | what's FSVO? | 18:17 |
| fungi | it's possible "being reachable on irc" is less challenging if it means "my matrix account joins the channel through a bridge" | 18:17 |
| JayF | for some value of | 18:17 |
| frickler | ah, thx | 18:17 |
| spotz[m] | We do have the bridge up from OFTC to Matrix, but I know Matrix has become the preferred for a lot of projects | 18:17 |
| frickler | fungi: except for when the matrix bridge drops people as being shown present in channels | 18:18 |
| gmann | well, it is not just IRC but keep up to the community elections, ML and more than moving project from emerging to Active. | 18:18 |
| JayF | frickler: +++++ it makes it extremely difficult for IRC-side users to interact with some matrix users | 18:18 |
| fungi | that's a good point. i've resorted to pinging nicks that aren't "in the channel" which causes them to suddenly join as if from nowhere and respond | 18:18 |
| frickler | likely e.g. gtema is around, but not shown present | 18:18 |
| frickler | fungi: ++ | 18:19 |
| JayF | gmann: but yeah, that's why I suggest a collab is the ideal case: we clearly have an engaged person even if they aren't expert at openstack-specific maintenance items, like elections and the like | 18:20 |
| JayF | It looks like active discussion is winding down, I'll close out the meeting soon if we're done. | 18:21 |
| frickler | one more thing | 18:22 |
| frickler | the question of moving docs tooling to TC governance is still open and also lacking feedback so far I think | 18:22 |
| frickler | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/914950 | 18:22 |
| clarkb | spotz[m]: fwiw opendev does maintain an EMS managed matrix homeserver and zuul and starlingx are using it | 18:23 |
| gmann | I replied there, My main question is if oslo team does not want to maintain it and want TC to take care of it? | 18:23 |
| spotz[m] | I would think that makes sense with my charter change | 18:23 |
| clarkb | I personally prefer IRC (I think the client tooling is miles ahead), but I don't mind matrix. It beats discord and slack | 18:23 |
| frickler | together with related review on docs tools https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstackdocstheme/+/915128 | 18:23 |
| spotz[m] | clarkb: hrmmmmm | 18:24 |
| frickler | regarding matrix my main concers is that it all would break down if matrix.org goes away | 18:24 |
| JayF | frickler: good call out; I have that open and will look soon | 18:24 |
| frickler | not only 95% of the users, but also tooling like channel links | 18:24 |
| frickler | plus lack of a text client | 18:25 |
| frickler | with IRC we are completely independent of specific servers, we even managed to switch to a completely different network without major issues | 18:26 |
| gmann | ++ | 18:26 |
| JayF | It's too bad IRCv3 is not getting more uptake. It fixes a lot of the issues with traditional IRC and many clients support it no problem. | 18:26 |
| clarkb | yup, but that also required us to register new uesr and we don't really have channel links with the same featurefulness | 18:26 |
| JayF | Either way, this is good discussion to have -- not sure it's neccessary for it to be in a TC meeting context | 18:27 |
| clarkb | I think a lot of the same issues exist with either technology, but we have proven that we can be resilient in the case of an IRC network implosion and that is yet to be tested with matrix | 18:27 |
| JayF | I'd like to close the meeting and let this discussion continue outside the meeting? Does that work for folks? | 18:27 |
| frickler | fine for me | 18:28 |
| JayF | clarkb: too bad irccloud isn't self-hosting, irccloud.opendev.org would fix a bunch of the issues | 18:28 |
| spotz[m] | Unless OFTC does what the last one did, which for the life of me can't think of the name:( | 18:28 |
| spotz[m] | Fine for me too | 18:28 |
| JayF | Thanks all for meeting, lets keep talkign about chat in chat afterwards, which is fun | 18:28 |
| JayF | #endmeeting | 18:28 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue Apr 16 18:28:35 2024 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:28 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2024/tc.2024-04-16-18.00.html | 18:28 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2024/tc.2024-04-16-18.00.txt | 18:28 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2024/tc.2024-04-16-18.00.log.html | 18:28 |
| JayF | spotz[m]: you talking Freenode=>Libera shenanigans? | 18:28 |
| JayF | spotz[m]: a good lesson in why it's important to have a foundation and care about how it's administrated, imo | 18:28 |
| spotz[m] | Freenode!! Yea:) | 18:29 |
| fungi | spotz[m]: at least while i'm on the board of directors for the foundation oftc is associated with, i'll strive to see that doesn't happen | 18:29 |
| spotz[m] | It just came to mind while we were talking about what if matrix.org going away | 18:29 |
| fungi | (oftc is with the same foundation debian, arch linux and gentoo are using) | 18:29 |
| fungi | there is a matrix.org nonprofit foundation, btw | 18:30 |
| fungi | https://matrix.org/about/ | 18:30 |
| fungi | "The evolution of Matrix is managed through an open governance process, looked after by The Matrix.org Foundation - a non-profit UK Community Interest Company, incorporated to act as the neutral guardian of the standard on behalf of the whole Matrix community." | 18:31 |
| frickler | JayF: there's https://thelounge.chat/ for self-hosting, but I'm unsure opendev should or would do that | 18:31 |
| JayF | That's what Adam MacArthur on my team uses, self-hosted, he likes it | 18:31 |
| fungi | we actually had specs at one point for hosting the lounge and also rocket chat | 18:31 |
| JayF | fungi: how do you all deploy software? Containerized + deployed via ansible, right? | 18:32 |
| fungi | we decided not to at the time, but it's been quite a while and the problems with them back then might no longer be relevant | 18:32 |
| JayF | If you could unearth that, I'd have a look at it | 18:32 |
| fungi | JayF: yes, ansible deploys containers onto virtual machines in donated cloud environments, and orchestrates them through docker-compose | 18:32 |
| JayF | it touches on a lot of things I care a lot about | 18:32 |
| JayF | fungi: okay, cool | 18:32 |
| clarkb | the problems with the lounge iirc were user management | 18:33 |
| frickler | though deploying is likely the easy part, particularly in that case, operations would be more challenging | 18:33 |
| clarkb | we didn't want to become irc network spammers and have to moderate and mitigate all that which meant some control of user accounts | 18:33 |
| clarkb | frickler: yes exactly | 18:33 |
| JayF | I need to step away, but I might look at that spec. Even if we made it available with some kind of slight barrier it'd be a helpful tool, I suspect. | 18:34 |
| fungi | JayF: well, the spec was written at a time when we were deploying things with puppet and bespoke system file layouts, so a lot of what was in there is unlikely to be relevant today (other than things specifically about the software itself, and that's probably evolved in the interim as well) | 18:35 |
| JayF | I am more interested in the higher level concerns, like what was just presented | 18:35 |
| JayF | this is like catnip to me though: a direct, actionable thing to lower the barrier to openstack entry | 18:36 |
| JayF | that makes me wanna get on a rocket and help it happen | 18:36 |
| * JayF & | 18:36 | |
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