| *** jroll02 is now known as jroll0 | 08:45 | |
| gmann | gouthamr: just a heads up. I might be late for today meeting . | 16:25 |
|---|---|---|
| gouthamr | gmann: ack | 16:25 |
| gmann | gouthamr: oh, I forgot DST things, I am on time, I thought meeting is now :) | 17:04 |
| gouthamr | nah, in 56 mins :) | 17:04 |
| gouthamr | tc-members: gentle reminder that today's meeting is here in ~55 mins | 17:05 |
| gouthamr | #startmeeting tc | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue Mar 11 18:00:54 2025 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gouthamr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | Welcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct. | 18:01 |
| gouthamr | Today's meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 18:01 |
| gouthamr | #topic Roll Call | 18:01 |
| spotz[m] | o/ | 18:01 |
| gtema | o/ | 18:01 |
| gmann | o/ | 18:02 |
| gouthamr | spotz[m]: gtema: you two have to tell us how your recent experience has been with matrix :) have you been having to do anything wonky to stay bridged? | 18:02 |
| bauzas | \o | 18:02 |
| clarkb | gouthamr: the bridge doesn't go away until end of this month aiui | 18:03 |
| gtema | nope, for me everything is smooth. At least I haven't noticed any problems myself | 18:03 |
| gouthamr | i didn't know it was going away for certain :( | 18:03 |
| gouthamr | #link https://matrix.org/blog/2025/02/crossroads/ | 18:03 |
| clarkb | gouthamr: It isn't, but it seems likely | 18:03 |
| clarkb | and if it happens wouldn't happen until end of this moneth | 18:04 |
| fungi | i haven't seen any updates as to how far along they are in their funding goals | 18:04 |
| gouthamr | ++ hope someone is making a sustainable plan to keep it going | 18:04 |
| spotz[m] | I use it via Element and really enjoy it as it serves as a bouncer. If channels are encrypted sometimes keys get out of whack but that might be element | 18:05 |
| gouthamr | courtesy-ping: mnasdaika frickler | 18:05 |
| gouthamr | noted absence: c a r d o e, n o o n e d e a d p u n k | 18:06 |
| gouthamr | ack thanks gtema spotz[m] | 18:07 |
| gouthamr | lets get started | 18:07 |
| gouthamr | #topic Last Week's AIs | 18:07 |
| gouthamr | 1) follow up on electoral roll generation to include TC repos | 18:08 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/election/+/941612 | 18:08 |
| gouthamr | thanks for testing this fungi! will task slaweq with reviewing/merging this now | 18:09 |
| gouthamr | 2) Track EOL transition patches to completion (W, X, Y) | 18:10 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/releases/+/941458 | 18:10 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/releases/+/942201 | 18:10 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/releases/+/942218 | 18:10 |
| gouthamr | ^ these still look good | 18:11 |
| gouthamr | our deadline to merge is March 21st | 18:11 |
| gouthamr | so in 10 days.. | 18:11 |
| gouthamr | 3) OpenStack Charms PTL concerns | 18:12 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/943254 | 18:12 |
| gouthamr | ^ bauzas thanks for posting your comment there, and for everyone else looking and adding +1s | 18:12 |
| bauzas | np | 18:12 |
| gouthamr | i chatted with billy_olsen at SCaLE about the state of things with Charms and Sunbeam - we assumed right that Charms is in "maintenance mode" - yet with a lot of activity because there are existing deployments that rely on it | 18:13 |
| gouthamr | jamespage was a good bridge with the community, and specifically the TC | 18:15 |
| spotz[m] | Billy is an engineering manager at Canonical for anyone who doesn’t know him | 18:16 |
| gouthamr | while others are pretty active elsewhere, we may not have the same level of engagement, and that's something i don't know what to do about | 18:16 |
| gtema | imho - do nothing special about it. Time passes, things die out | 18:17 |
| gouthamr | it's currently not a huge concern, we don't really need the charms team to be doing anything.. except ofcourse prevent us from scurrying to find a PTL each release | 18:17 |
| gouthamr | yeah | 18:17 |
| gmann | I think it was late nomination instead of finding PTL | 18:18 |
| fungi | and sunbeam is still thoroughly active and being developed, right? | 18:18 |
| gouthamr | yes, sunbeam is the present and future | 18:18 |
| gmann | we had PTL volunteer but did not match the election timing | 18:18 |
| gouthamr | true | 18:18 |
| gouthamr | i'll go ahead and merge the appointment change if there are no objections, and hope that freyes / gboutry / billy_olsen can be reached out to and expected to respond when we have concerns | 18:19 |
| gmann | getting all nomination on time is hard thing but if we have volunteer there during leaderlees projects discussion I think it is ok | 18:19 |
| gmann | if we no PTL/leaders in election or after election then it is more concern and TC need to be involved for the next step | 18:20 |
| gmann | *there is no PTL | 18:20 |
| gouthamr | ack | 18:20 |
| gouthamr | next AI: | 18:20 |
| gouthamr | 4) Send PTLs a reminder about their role and responsibilities | 18:20 |
| gouthamr | ^ i am working on this | 18:21 |
| gouthamr | i'll update you folks in the next week's meeting | 18:21 |
| frickler | sorry got distracted o/ | 18:21 |
| gouthamr | 5) add discussion about monthly video meetings to PTG agenda | 18:21 |
| gouthamr | ^ haha, you got here just in time | 18:22 |
| gouthamr | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/apr2025-ptg-os-tc | 18:22 |
| gouthamr | lets debate away, i'll share more updates regarding the PTG when the topic comes | 18:22 |
| gouthamr | that's all the AIs i was tracking, was anyone else working on anything else? | 18:23 |
| spotz[m] | Not TC related per say but I did talk to Billy about OutreChy | 18:23 |
| gouthamr | am hoping there's some good news? :) or hope of some? | 18:25 |
| gouthamr | #link https://www.outreachy.org/communities/cfp/openstack/ | 18:25 |
| gouthamr | ^ thanks to our generous sponsors this time around, we have three Outreachy proposals - we'll hopefully pick up at least one intern for one of these projects | 18:25 |
| spotz[m] | I’d say hope maybe not this cohort but next. Also if anyone would like to mentor a college student let me know | 18:26 |
| gouthamr | ++ thank you spotz[m] | 18:26 |
| spotz[m] | Welcome | 18:26 |
| gouthamr | alright, lets move on | 18:26 |
| gouthamr | #link TC Chair Announcement, a call for vice-chair/s | 18:26 |
| gouthamr | the chair nomination period is now over, and with all the humility i can muster, i'd like to thank you for your confidence in my work :) | 18:27 |
| gouthamr | 'course i've passed around enough brickbats and 2x4s so use 'em | 18:28 |
| spotz[m] | Congrats! | 18:28 |
| gouthamr | which means, its time to nominate a vice-chair | 18:28 |
| spotz[m] | Not it:) | 18:29 |
| gouthamr | as with the last time, i'm hoping to pass the baton over to someone who'd like to be a future chair | 18:29 |
| gouthamr | haha.. would anyone like to volunteer? | 18:29 |
| bauzas | "I'm gone, I'm dead" for the vice-chair seat, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HILcYXf8yqc for context | 18:30 |
| spotz[m] | We could just nominate someone not here:) | 18:30 |
| gouthamr | in the recent past, frickler and noonedeadpunk have been vice-chairs and they've both led meetings and taken on specific areas that they've shepherded to completion | 18:30 |
| gouthamr | bauzas: lol, apt | 18:31 |
| gouthamr | alright, lets talk about this between meetings and finalize | 18:34 |
| gouthamr | #topic OpenInfra Days NA Recap | 18:35 |
| frickler | gouthamr: you'd still need to make a patch to record you chair status I think? | 18:35 |
| gouthamr | ^ ++ will propose it | 18:36 |
| gouthamr | spotz[m] mnasiadka and I were at OpenInfra Days, with a lot of familiar faces: JayF, TheJulia, jbryce, ildikov diablo_rojo_phone and many others.. | 18:36 |
| gouthamr | i am trying to think about feedback that the TC could take from the gathering and the discussions | 18:36 |
| gouthamr | for one, there was a OpenInfra Board meeting today that i couldn't attend, but, we got a preview of the discussion with the "OpenInfra Leadership Meet & Greet" that spotz[m] organized | 18:37 |
| spotz[m] | 3 new contributor got patches in? | 18:38 |
| JayF | gouthamr: I don't know how actionable it is for TC; but a lot of people indicated that an alternate (additional) communication platform for operators/users to get support could be helpful. I think folks at the foundation are looking into this. | 18:38 |
| gouthamr | ++ i think its something we can participate in, and share opinions on.. since we define the "Project Team Guide (lines)" | 18:38 |
| spotz[m] | Thejulia is already working on that | 18:39 |
| TheJulia | Maybe not directly part of the TC, but we as a wider community likely need start coordinating our messaging and outreach to conferences. Futhermore, as JayF noted, there is a need for other centralized communication channels and I've put that on aprice's plate as an evil chair of the board.^(TM) | 18:39 |
| JayF | The undercurrent/context for the ask was basically: if we don't do something soon, someone will make an unofficial discord which *nobody* wants :) | 18:39 |
| TheJulia | yes, that | 18:40 |
| clarkb | probably a good time to remind people opendev has a matrix homeserver | 18:40 |
| TheJulia | JayF: that is a most excellent summary! | 18:40 |
| clarkb | zuul and starlginx both use it | 18:40 |
| fungi | people already ask questions on stackexchange, reddit, slack, etc. first i've heard of it, but sounds like a proposal to add an openstack discord channel too? | 18:40 |
| JayF | fungi: something **to prevent** a discord from being created :) | 18:41 |
| TheJulia | Yes, specifically we need something which crosses over into acceptable usage context of business. i.e. IRC and similarly matrix is being viewed in a similar light where some organizations have okayed some other solutions. | 18:41 |
| JayF | fungi: e.g. a semi-official slack | 18:41 |
| TheJulia | That community<->business crossover being critical to usage | 18:41 |
| gtema | clarkb: it is indeed a good time and we should think announcing it as something comparable to the irc | 18:41 |
| frickler | so through our fourth open into the bin? | 18:41 |
| frickler | *throw | 18:41 |
| TheJulia | The *intent* is to not replace, but have something which also compliments | 18:41 |
| fungi | note that adding more "official" channels in the past hasn't stopped users from asking questions in the places they frequent instead, it's merely left us with more unmaintained infrastructure we eventually end up tearing down again (forum.openstack.org, ask.openstack.org, and so on) | 18:41 |
| frickler | splitting the shrinking community isn't helpful IMO | 18:42 |
| fungi | the real challenge hasn't been with giving users somewhere to ask questions, but getting people with answers to pay attention | 18:42 |
| JayF | frickler: it seems to me like it makes the community more open to expand the communication venues to allow an alternative (not requirement) that would be accessible to them when others would not, but I can see the perspective where a non-OSS tool could be seen as a negative. | 18:42 |
| gmann | I think we need to broadcast or streamlines existing but central communication channels instead of creating more and more | 18:42 |
| gmann | frickler: ++ | 18:42 |
| TheJulia | Indeed, they don't know what they don't know as well. But there is a legitimate faction which cannot use IRC today in their workplaces under any circumstances. | 18:43 |
| JayF | gmann: that's directly counter to the feedback from operators in the room at the OpenInfra Days, which is what I'm trying to communicate. I obviously <3 IRC and wish we could get everyone here, but I can't control corporate firewalls. | 18:43 |
| gmann | yeah, maybe we can think of slack instead of IRC? I mean any channel is ok but having central one is good | 18:43 |
| frickler | slack is def nonfree, or is it? | 18:44 |
| bauzas | could an OpenInfra IRC webchat help them ? | 18:44 |
| TheJulia | There are different levels | 18:44 |
| JayF | yeah, I agree Slack would be a good alternative as a second place. I'd be in that network if so. | 18:44 |
| fungi | just remember that if we say "here's slack" then people who prefer discord are just going to continue making discord channels to ask questions in | 18:44 |
| gmann | JayF: yeah, i understand. we faced same challenges on ML too | 18:44 |
| bauzas | slack-- | 18:44 |
| bauzas | (to me) | 18:44 |
| fungi | also, to repeat, we have an opendev.org matrix homeserver | 18:44 |
| TheJulia | bauzas: one operator explicitly noted loading irccloud or a known irc webapp causes their computer to lockdown as if it has been compromised | 18:44 |
| bauzas | proprietary locked-down | 18:44 |
| fungi | i get the impression the argument against matrix is "but users have never heard of it, and they don't care what's open source and what isn't so slack will be the better choice" | 18:45 |
| gtema | fungi - actually it is not even necessary to have a homeserver to have public matrix rooms | 18:45 |
| TheJulia | gmann: we're also facing increasing number of complaints and observations that emails are quite literally just disappearing into the ether | 18:45 |
| fungi | gtema: right, it's not necessary, just saying we have one anyway | 18:45 |
| TheJulia | so, we simply can no longer directly rely upon it the way we once did as well. | 18:45 |
| spotz[m] | I wouldn’t mind our own matrix server but understand the appeal of slack | 18:46 |
| bauzas | do people know our logs are open ? | 18:46 |
| gmann | agree, we thought it will be more streamline when we merged the MLs but it did not go well. I am thinking separate ML for operator/users can still be worth to keep it? | 18:46 |
| fungi | spotz[m]: there already is one, just saying again | 18:46 |
| bauzas | at least they can readonly our discussions | 18:46 |
| TheJulia | fungi: several as I understand it | 18:46 |
| mnasiadka | sorry, lost of track of time after metal tube time travel... | 18:46 |
| fungi | i mean the openinfra foundation pays for a matrix homeserver already | 18:46 |
| TheJulia | mnasiadka: Excellent fun isen't it! | 18:46 |
| gouthamr | o/ welcome back, mnasiadka | 18:46 |
| spotz[m] | fungi: worded it wrong I should have said using that one | 18:47 |
| JayF | I would rather be the places operators can be, even if it's a less-ideal place, than have those operators have to interact with the community read-only or only on personal time. I agree with the idea we should *not* have such alternate tools become requirements since they are non-free. | 18:47 |
| JayF | But there are folks in the community (me, and others who volunteered IRL) who would help in such a slack community if it existed. | 18:47 |
| fungi | the openstack vmt has a channel on the opendev matrix homeserver, though we've ended up relying on irc instead because most of the current vmt members are always on irc anyway | 18:48 |
| gouthamr | +1, if we could bridge slack, discord and irc, the matrix homeserver that opendev hosts can be super powerful | 18:48 |
| spotz[m] | We are matrix OFTC bridged. Slack to irc bridge has been dead for years | 18:48 |
| fungi | JayF: there apparently already is an openstack slack community, from what i understand (i've never joined it) | 18:48 |
| TheJulia | JayF: likewise, and the reality is we need to meet folks in the middle ground as well. | 18:48 |
| bauzas | if IRC remains the main, I'm fine | 18:48 |
| JayF | fungi: it is non-public community organizer slack, from the conversations I had at OIDays. | 18:49 |
| fungi | got it | 18:49 |
| gmann | I think its always hard to bring developer and operator in same communication channel. either of them needs to join their preferred one | 18:49 |
| TheJulia | JayF: fungi: and a scientific sig has their own as well. We already have fracturing occuring there. | 18:49 |
| gouthamr | #link https://lists.openinfra.org/archives/list/community@lists.openinfra.org/message/C4G2X5QLAZZ5MDOPDZ2LULM4O4Z76LF5/ (OpenInfra Global Slack community) | 18:49 |
| gmann | it does not matter we keep IRC or choose other channel | 18:49 |
| JayF | gmann: yep, that's why just a handful of ambassadors in the place the operators can more easily go is ideal imo | 18:50 |
| fungi | i'm mainly aware of the openstack slack community because people forward me questions that users/operators are asking in there from time to time | 18:50 |
| gmann | TheJulia: JayF was there any feedback or talk if we bring separate ML for operator then it will improve the things? | 18:50 |
| JayF | gouthamr: that requires an @openstack.org email address to signup. | 18:51 |
| gouthamr | oh, no | 18:51 |
| gouthamr | i am on it with an @gmail address | 18:51 |
| JayF | Either way, I suspect we might need to move on given the time, I don't know TC agenda but this has been circled around for a while | 18:51 |
| JayF | gouthamr: I literally just tried to join; got that error. So config changed at some point. | 18:51 |
| gmann | at least community developer who are used to lot of mails and tag filter, we can keep eyes on the separate ML and operator also does not have huge developer centric traffic | 18:51 |
| TheJulia | gmann: no, basically we were able to identify through discussion of multiple emails where people just didn't get posts through to the list or folks just didn't even get an emails which were sent, which from what we can tell is email providers eating messages | 18:51 |
| * JayF has ^ that problem as described by Julia and is constantly marking things as not-junk | 18:52 | |
| gouthamr | gmann: we killed the openstack-operators ML, and there was a bit of discussion around that | 18:52 |
| gmann | ohk | 18:52 |
| TheJulia | JayF: even folks were able to confirm they never got stuff marked as junk. Just *never got it* when others in the room were able to go "yes, got that!" | 18:52 |
| bauzas | fwiw, I'm on wechat too :) | 18:52 |
| TheJulia | heh | 18:52 |
| bauzas | so the community is already fragmented :) | 18:52 |
| TheJulia | Anyway, As time moves forward, we should *expect* vendors for things like email to filter more and more like a social media provider | 18:53 |
| gmann | I was also there in wechat during shanghai summit but lost that in my new phone :) | 18:53 |
| gouthamr | gmann: mainly operators stating that they either felt shy to use openstack-discuss, or that it was high traffic developer content - irrelevant to them, and that they didn't get enough engagement from operators when they posted questions | 18:53 |
| gmann | yeah, openstack-discuss is too much developers discussion email and easy to get ignored by them | 18:54 |
| TheJulia | Human's perceptions are easy to control through algorithms, and it will continue to progress to email. | 18:54 |
| fungi | we can adjust the mailing list settings to more obtrusively cater to modern freemail provider expectations, but that will alter the experience dramatically (messages will start coming from the list address, will reroute replies, will need to strip a lot of inbound headers, and so on) | 18:54 |
| TheJulia | fungi: I don't think it is necessarilly that, I think this is a matter of providers filtering content post-receipt | 18:55 |
| mnasiadka | Well, there's a lot of content on reddit r/openstack - looks like a lot of operators found their space | 18:55 |
| TheJulia | mnasiadka: that was raised in social media context, that is exceptionally active | 18:55 |
| fungi | mnasiadka: my earlier point exactly. people who want to ask questions on reddit are going to ask them there anyway, even if they're told there's a slack they can use, it's not that they dislike irc and mailing lists, it's that they prefer reddit | 18:56 |
| mnasiadka | I even found solutions to kolla-ansible bugs on reddit (that have not been raised on launchpad) :-) | 18:56 |
| TheJulia | mnasiadka: impressive! | 18:56 |
| JayF | fungi: the main preference I think the slack would cater to is more ... internal IT preference to block social media or alternative chat apps; whereas getting an additional slack community is a lower bar. This is one of the big driving factors for me; my downstream operators have zero chance of upstream chat during work unless it's slack. (I don't think that's unique?) | 18:57 |
| fungi | that's like when i find security vulnerabilities in red hat's bug tracker that haven't been reported upstream ;) granted that hasn't happened again for a while thankfully | 18:57 |
| clarkb | JayF: even matrix via a webclient wouldn't be allowed? | 18:57 |
| mnasiadka | I don't think we can try to ,,control'' the fragmentation, but I understand that for some people IRC is problematic (although maybe using Matrix and OFTC bridge is less problematic firewall-wise) | 18:57 |
| JayF | clarkb: not at all; would be blocked as unauthorized chat | 18:57 |
| clarkb | I feel like if the problem boils down to corporate policy has extremely strict rules on what https sites you can access that isn't our problem to solve... | 18:57 |
| fungi | interesting that connecting to an external slack community would be allowed as authorized | 18:57 |
| JayF | No, but I'd rather try to solve it and engage those operators than leave them in the cold. | 18:58 |
| mnasiadka | And I'm not convinced that OpenInfra should direct people to Slack... | 18:58 |
| bauzas | please NOOOOOO | 18:58 |
| bauzas | NOOOOOO to Slac | 18:58 |
| JayF | Just because it's not our problem doesn't mean we can't help solve it. We certainly have enough BMC-bug-workarond code in Ironic to prove that. | 18:58 |
| bauzas | *k | 18:58 |
| TheJulia | guys | 18:58 |
| TheJulia | folks | 18:58 |
| gouthamr | sorry to break the discussion here, there were other takeaways too that might be useful to the TC: | 18:58 |
| gouthamr | * Our support of the OpenInfra Foundation's transition into the Linux Foundation was significant, and we'll hear more about how this is going soon (TheJulia will update us, soon) | 18:58 |
| gouthamr | * There are going to be discussions on two topics at the PTG, VMWare --> OpenStack, and OpenStack's support for AI workloads.. there was significant interest in both of these expressed throughout OpenInfra NA.. so, as TC we should join these efforts and see how the project maintainers can play a role | 18:58 |
| bauzas | again, this is proprietary and vendor lockdown, the exact opposite of what we promote | 18:59 |
| bauzas | gouthamr: as unfortunately some SME for AI workloads in Nova, I can help :( | 19:00 |
| gouthamr | i'm glad to see opinions on the communication platform being shared, and brainstormed - shows that we know the problem and care enough to fix it.. :D lets wait to see what aprice and folks come up with, while also making sure we call out all the concerns | 19:00 |
| TheJulia | What individuals use is up to their capabilities and organizations. We have to meet folks in the middle. If we don't, we loose engagement. We might not like all solutions, and we're not mandating anything, we're trying to find paths which enables engagement in a variety of cases. You don't have to join it, it would never be mandatory or expected as mandatory, but we do need to take a "pick 3" sort of approach to meet folks in | 19:00 |
| TheJulia | the middle without being in everything, and if we're in everything, we're effectively in nothing. | 19:00 |
| * bauzas is already burned downstream, but I can also burn myself upstream with AI buzzword :) | 19:00 | |
| gouthamr | "if we're in everything, we're effectively in nothing" | 19:00 |
| bauzas | the best engagement is F2F :) | 19:00 |
| bauzas | everything else is unfortunately less powerful | 19:01 |
| * gouthamr TheJulia: do you podcast? | 19:01 | |
| JayF | gouthamr: she's been a guest on mine https://podcast.gr-oss.io/7-oss-foundations | 19:01 |
| TheJulia | gouthamr: not really, it is complicated. I'll do one-offs. | 19:01 |
| gouthamr | ^ nice :) | 19:01 |
| gouthamr | alright, we're at the hour.. but don't let that stop you from chatting here | 19:02 |
| clarkb | I agree that its tough to have a single solution that works for everyone. That said we (opendev) provide tooling/support/etc for 4 primarily communications protocols that are all indepdnent of one another (IRC, Matrix, Email, and Webrtc) | 19:02 |
| TheJulia | Anyway, I can't speak of the board meeting today, but if your interested the agenda is public. | 19:02 |
| clarkb | precisely for this reason. Sometimes you need different tools. I guess whereI'm sitting I feel like we do a pretty good job of having a wide variety of options | 19:02 |
| clarkb | and if that still sin't enough I would ask peopel to meet us in the middle we are already there | 19:02 |
| clarkb | caving to our principals nad just using slack isn't meeting anyone in the middle. Thats going about as far as you can to theo ther side | 19:03 |
| gouthamr | TheJulia: ack, i'm hoping we can hear more about it when its available to be shared widely | 19:03 |
| TheJulia | gouthamr: it is a process, that is for sure. :) | 19:03 |
| gouthamr | there wasn't much else on the agenda that was burning enough to be brought up today.. so i'll close this meeting | 19:04 |
| gouthamr | does anyone else have anything to the minutes? | 19:04 |
| TheJulia | I found out late on Friday that the scientific sig slack is logged publically. | 19:04 |
| TheJulia | I don't know the details beyond that, just found it interesting that they have setup separate logging so they don't have to pay | 19:05 |
| gouthamr | #link https://join.slack.com/t/os-scientific-sig/shared_invite/zt-31pt79we9-YMbcFrCvcFczkLvTn~aWHA | 19:05 |
| fungi | gouthamr: jbryce will probably have the meeting summary out to the foundation ml tomorrow, and i'll send an update to openstack-discuss once that happens | 19:05 |
| gouthamr | ++ ty fungi | 19:05 |
| TheJulia | gouthamr: There is a restriction over public statements of what was in the meeting until jbryce or a designee does a thing. | 19:06 |
| TheJulia | (i.e. post some sort of summary) | 19:06 |
| gouthamr | ah i see | 19:07 |
| gouthamr | thanks, TheJulia | 19:07 |
| gouthamr | alright everyone sorry this went over | 19:07 |
| gouthamr | thank you all for joining | 19:07 |
| gouthamr | see you in this meeting next week! | 19:07 |
| gouthamr | #endmeeting | 19:07 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue Mar 11 19:07:46 2025 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:07 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-03-11-18.00.html | 19:07 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-03-11-18.00.txt | 19:07 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-03-11-18.00.log.html | 19:07 |
| * bauzas is sad to be required to opt into Slack for seeing a SIG discussion | 19:08 | |
| gouthamr | bauzas: https://os-scientific-sig.slack.com/archives/CJCQ73GMV/p1739974230836789 | 19:09 |
| gouthamr | that still opens in slack though | 19:09 |
| bauzas | do people have to open a slack account in order to read those discussions ? | 19:09 |
| TheJulia | bauzas: I felt that same way long ago as well. And truthfully, I greatly dislike slack. | 19:09 |
| TheJulia | bauzas: I've been told there is a thing, I just don't have the details behind it | 19:10 |
| gouthamr | oh wait, they're bridging slack and matrix: https://matrix.to/#/#openstack-scientific-sig:matrix.org | 19:10 |
| TheJulia | they are, as well | 19:10 |
| fungi | i hold my nose and use a weechat plugin to connect to slack servers i'm stuck having to deal with, but at least that makes them just look like additional irc networks from my perspective | 19:11 |
| bauzas | tbc, I just tested with FF private mode, you need to SSO to eventually create a Slack account | 19:11 |
| bauzas | that's the main concern I have | 19:11 |
| bauzas | you don't need to register in order to talk to our IRC channels | 19:11 |
| gouthamr | try this, if you prefer to use matrix through Element: https://app.element.io/#/room/#openstack-scientific-sig:matrix.org | 19:11 |
| bauzas | Slack is to me a terrible option and defeats the whole great idea of openness we promote | 19:12 |
| bauzas | Slack being a company private communication medium is a company decision | 19:12 |
| bauzas | Slack being a medium for an opensource project promoting no vendor lockdown, I don't get it | 19:13 |
| bauzas | and don't get me wrong, as someone working on Slack on a daily basis, I do appreciate some of their fancy features (except threads that I hate the most) | 19:14 |
| JayF | bauzas: (IMO) at this point, people have to know we exist to come to us. Mailing lists/IRC/Matrix are not in most folks' workflow. I'd rather get them into a conversation with a project that values no vendor lockdown (and maybe started on the path towards more openness) than have those people remain outside of the community indefinitely | 19:14 |
| gouthamr | point taken.. i was parked on #kubernetes-users the other day and i got notified that people had to leave to make room for more people to participate, sigh | 19:15 |
| bauzas | but that solution has nothing to do with our community and our contributors shouldn't be asked to opt into it | 19:15 |
| JayF | I don't think the choice in their cases is "IRC or Matrix or Slack" it's "Slack or nothign" | 19:15 |
| clarkb | right and thats why I don't want to frame this as meeting them in the middle | 19:15 |
| bauzas | I prefer then nothing | 19:15 |
| fungi | i personally feel like expecting people to use proprietary tools in order to participate in our community is absolutely hypocritical, but i don't think giving people the option of using proprietary tools to communicate is necessarily a problem | 19:15 |
| bauzas | bridging gaps doesn't imply to me compromising my tenets | 19:15 |
| JayF | I think that's a values difference we're unlikely to resolve with discussion then, bauzas :) We're both right in our own perspectives. | 19:15 |
| clarkb | we can still decide that its in our best interest to use slack officially or discord or whatever. But that isn't a middle ground its a full surrender | 19:16 |
| JayF | fungi: ++ if we ever got to a situation where "to participate in $openstack_project you have to join $slack_workspace", we'd be completely in the wrong. Saying "here's a place that the foundation blesses as an alternative messaging solution for those who wanna use it and have no option for something better" is more okay. | 19:17 |
| bauzas | fungi: whatever tool people may use, it should eventually be connected to a free solution | 19:17 |
| JayF | I wish the state of the world was different than what it is; in many ways; but the only thing I can control is trying to be there for the operators locked behind a firewall :) | 19:17 |
| bauzas | Slack demoting the IRC bridge doesn't exactly stand for their case | 19:18 |
| bauzas | again, I don't get why a webchat could help those operators to reach us | 19:19 |
| bauzas | couldn't* | 19:19 |
| fungi | to reiterate my earlier point, people who insist on asking for help in slack are going to do it no matter what we say, we can give them some semblance of more official dressing if that helps. the challenge is going to be connecting people with questions to people with answers, and that problem doesn't really seem to change regardless of the platform they use | 19:19 |
| bauzas | and again, I think we should take a stance on the scentific SIG slack channel | 19:19 |
| bauzas | fungi: are they expecting some support level or are they keen to integrate a community ? | 19:20 |
| JayF | fungi: and I'm happy to be there and hopefully answer some % of the questions; it's a better alternative than those users disappearing forever. | 19:21 |
| fungi | basically, slack users are still going to ask other slack users for help if that's where they prefer to be. i doubt their success in getting answers will hinge on whether it's designated as an official space | 19:21 |
| bauzas | I definitely miss some operators feedback we had before on the service projects channels | 19:21 |
| bauzas | so I'd definitely appreciate some operators to chime into our IRC channels | 19:21 |
| bauzas | and trust me, they'd be welcomed | 19:21 |
| JayF | bauzas: the original source of this discussion @ SCALE was during the "how do we make ops meetups happen again" session; so this is why I care about it too | 19:21 |
| * bauzas is old enough to remember the healthy discussions we had with operators at the time we designed cells v2 or AZs | 19:22 | |
| bauzas | or live migrations | 19:22 |
| bauzas | anyway, my point is that I feel there is a huge misunderstanding in terms of expectations | 19:23 |
| JayF | There were times at SCALE where it felt just a sliver like that again | 19:23 |
| JayF | especially during the "get 1st commits into openstack" session that Manila ran | 19:23 |
| bauzas | people shouldn't expect our dev channels to be a support medium, they never were | 19:23 |
| JayF | there's growing momentum around openstack again; and I think we have an opportunity to capture it | 19:23 |
| JayF | bauzas: I had at least 5 different people mention to me how cool the vgpu stuff is, btw :D good job on all that | 19:24 |
| JayF | bauzas: I pointed them towards your OIF France talk on it | 19:24 |
| bauzas | that burned myself but I'm happy to hear | 19:24 |
| bauzas | JayF: fwiw, there was an OIF Asia talk (in English) about it :) | 19:25 |
| JayF | It doesn't seem like something that'd be easy to implement, but it absolutely wow'd a couple of folks I talked to | 19:25 |
| bauzas | the fact is, I got numerous times as a Nova PTL to engage with some operators I met at different events | 19:25 |
| fungi | glad to hear it, the vgpu discussions at the previous oid-na in indianapolis were far from positive | 19:26 |
| bauzas | most of the time, I told them to embrace the community but they never did | 19:26 |
| bauzas | JayF: fungi : vgpu is a matter of aligning planets, but doable to some extend | 19:27 |
| bauzas | that just requires a proprietary stack to be correctly set | 19:27 |
| JayF | fungi: this is less "I'm an operator successfully using this in production" (although there was at least one of those), and more "holy cow, I can't believe that's possible" | 19:28 |
| JayF | fungi: more evidence to me that folks have no idea the cool engineering we do, because we successfully hide the complexity a lot of the time | 19:28 |
| fungi | ah, yeah, the indianapolis discussion was a guy at iu talking about how a behavior change in nova broke the specific way they were handling vgpus in their environment | 19:29 |
| bauzas | JayF: ah, so they haven't yet seen the licenses prices ? | 19:29 |
| fungi | which ended up dominating a lot of the community-side sessions | 19:30 |
| JayF | bauzas: I had one of the jr ops from GR who was there ask me if it worked on consumer GPUs. I told him it only worked if you're willing to pay for a GPU that costs the price of a small car ;) | 19:30 |
| bauzas | fungi: if we're talking of SRIOV GPUs, this was the opposite, some unnoticed hardware and kernel change broke us | 19:30 |
| JayF | bauzas: so I think I got the point across lol | 19:30 |
| fungi | oh! right, it was (non-v)gpus | 19:30 |
| bauzas | vgpu is really a corner case | 19:31 |
| bauzas | the most important feature that people use fo AI is just passthrough | 19:31 |
| bauzas | unless they wanna do multi-tenancy, basically | 19:31 |
| JayF | the one user talking about it @ SCALE was jetstream | 19:32 |
| fungi | again, because of how near-impossibly-priced nvidia's licensing for gpy virtualization is | 19:32 |
| JayF | who provide GPUs to students at universities, so more GPUs with less power was a nice compromise for them | 19:32 |
| clarkb | re slack etc. If the issue is corporate network access policies do we foresee this snowballing into needing to have an official presence on every popular corporate comms platform? | 19:32 |
| clarkb | since the slack users don't use teams or discord and vice versa? | 19:32 |
| JayF | someone else can be the ambassador to a teams room lol | 19:32 |
| fungi | more likely slack will become the only corporate comms platform, at least that's their business goal i'm sure | 19:32 |
| fungi | on an earlier note about the operators mailing list, i dug up the discussion from back then in case anyone wants to revisit: https://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2018-August/015768.html | 19:33 |
| clarkb | I was going to say that operators seem to be engaging the list a lot more recently and important interacting with each other. This is the main struggle I think is people treating it as a one way medium when in reality the expectation is they get involved to answer others' questions too (which is now happening more and more) | 19:35 |
| bauzas | I wouldn't consider Slack an overall winner, I know lots of companies communicate thru Teams | 19:36 |
| JayF | The "mailing list as a forum" stuff is extremely nice too as an enhancement. I find myself suggesting that method to newer/younger community members as it fits more existing comms methods than mailing lists. | 19:36 |
| bauzas | yeah, was a nice improvement indeed | 19:36 |
| bauzas | and again, I wonder whether some IRC webchat (sorry, I have some idea nagging behind me) could help if that was fancier that a raw webchat | 19:37 |
| bauzas | than* | 19:37 |
| JayF | bauzas: irccloud.com is what I use and suggest for new folks; but it still doesn't help get past corporate filtered internet (Julia told a funny anecdote earlier about how going to websites like that in some environments gets your machine locked down as if it were compromised) | 19:38 |
| clarkb | I get the sense the problem is corporate network policy won't allow them to connect to externally hosted web services for IRC | 19:38 |
| fungi | yeah, otherwise they could also use the element webclient for matrix | 19:38 |
| bauzas | JayF: couldn't we imagine some hosted webclient that would do the server-side connection behind ? | 19:39 |
| fungi | those already exist, we don't host any ourselves but they're available | 19:39 |
| gouthamr | element has fancy ios/android apps too, akin to Slack | 19:39 |
| JayF | irccloud works that way; but is still blocked. I think it'd have to be a sneaky url to get past :) | 19:39 |
| * bauzas is about to give a try to TheLounge fwiw | 19:39 | |
| clarkb | the bigger issue there is it implies a company culture that is unwilling to collaborate externally in any capacity which I think means we'll just hit the next problem after getting on slack | 19:39 |
| clarkb | eg not being abel to push to Gerrit or fetch from gerrit or whatever | 19:40 |
| JayF | bauzas: adamcarthur7 (from my team) uses that, and likes it a lot | 19:40 |
| bauzas | JayF: good to know, I was considering it for convenient purposes | 19:40 |
| clarkb | JayF: or petition the office of the CSO to be more lenient (even if it is just punching holes for specific things) | 19:40 |
| JayF | he probably has some automation around it too, he automates everything | 19:40 |
| fungi | in the pre-opendev (openstack infra team) days we even had a spec for a while someone was working on to host thelounge and/or rocket.chat i think | 19:41 |
| bauzas | and I have everything I need (home VPN and a docker-operating server) | 19:41 |
| JayF | I just got GR-OSS to pay for an irccloud team account :) probably cheaper than paying me to maintain the infra for something hosted anyway | 19:41 |
| fungi | but ultimately we ended up choosing matrix as a more well-rounded solution than just being an irc bouncer and webclient | 19:41 |
| * bauzas looks aside at his beloved ZNC server which operators from more than a decade ) | 19:42 | |
| bauzas | :) | 19:42 |
| bauzas | (on a rpi) | 19:42 |
| gouthamr | now if you could scale the solution and host all users on your bouncer :D | 19:42 |
| bauzas | I'm sure my pi will like that | 19:42 |
| fungi | i've been running weechat in tmux on an openstack server instance in rackspace for about 13 years | 19:42 |
| gouthamr | THATS NOT CATTLE | 19:43 |
| gouthamr | that's a pet | 19:43 |
| bauzas | weechat is what I use now (over my znc bouncer) but I like GUIs, I have to admit | 19:43 |
| fungi | i like my pets | 19:43 |
| bauzas | well, znc is a pet if you want MGO | 19:43 |
| bauzas | MHO* | 19:44 |
| JayF | I used weechat inside tmux for a long, long time. I only changed to this client because I wanted to know how to use it to help out the new folks on my team, and the mobile app is very nice (although weechat-android is /fine/ too) | 19:44 |
| fungi | also my pet is sort of cattle-ish, i have a quick recipe to redeploy it from scratch and backups when needed | 19:44 |
| JayF | As a rule I don't administrate cattle for my own homelab; I want artisinal hand-crafted server experiences to contrast the server assembly line that is our day job lol | 19:45 |
| fungi | so i'm not too worried if it disappears or if i need to switch to a different cloud provider | 19:45 |
| gouthamr | bessie is reincarnatable | 19:46 |
| TheJulia | JayF: that anecdote was literally what one of the folks at one of the financial orgs noted when they try using irccloud in their org. | 19:46 |
| clarkb | another thing to consider is if corporations with strict policies like that would allow interaction with external slack instances. One benefit to corporations using slack is they get complete records of all comms over that instance. But taht wouldn't be true of another separate instance | 19:46 |
| gouthamr | i don't think anyone brought up that issue | 19:46 |
| gouthamr | they seemed to be okay joining many slack communities | 19:47 |
| clarkb | which goes back to my other concern of basically do a bunch of work to solve what we think is the problem until we trip voer the next one | 19:47 |
| clarkb | bceause strict corporate policies like that won't create one problem. Everything will be problematic | 19:47 |
| * JayF is representing an actual problem his downstream has; not a made up user :) | 19:47 | |
| JayF | although maybe we're special :) | 19:47 |
| bauzas | : | 19:47 |
| bauzas | clarkb: well, I'm more worried about what I tell upstream than downstream because everything I say here is logged forever | 19:48 |
| JayF | there's literally someone who keeps a personal laptop on guest wifi on their desk to participate in the community. That's not something most people will be willing to do. | 19:48 |
| clarkb | bauzas: ya thats true for slack too though :) should be worried in both directions | 19:48 |
| TheJulia | clarkb: you can get special business client builds AIUI which meet the needs of the business recordkeeping requirements around comms/engagement/records retention so a regulator can go "give me all the data from this person, who did they talk to, etc. | 19:48 |
| bauzas | Slack can keep my history, but eavesdrop keeps all my history from the very first time I was here | 19:49 |
| clarkb | TheJulia: aha so they are still recording everything but client side :/ | 19:49 |
| TheJulia | clarkb: yup! | 19:49 |
| bauzas | well, corp proxies are the usual way of tracking | 19:50 |
| TheJulia | that as well | 19:50 |
| bauzas | so I do understand the problem but I don't think it can be easily solvable by one magical solution | 19:50 |
| TheJulia | There is no way to have a single solution | 19:50 |
| clarkb | JayF: right which is why I wonder where we draw the line. We solve the comms problem with a slack instance and next its I can't use gerrit or can't use etherpad or whatever | 19:51 |
| clarkb | are we going to try and build a second set of infrastructure with big brother monitoring in all of it for this set of users? | 19:51 |
| JayF | clarkb: IMO, just having operators be able to talk and provide feedback (including to each other) is a significant improvement. You don't need access to gerrit to contribute. | 19:51 |
| clarkb | or do we think communication is sufficient because at least then you've got a connection going and things aren't completely lost | 19:51 |
| bauzas | JayF: I disagree, I very much like my operators to review the specs we write | 19:52 |
| bauzas | that's the most useful way for us (ops and devs) to communicate on a design | 19:52 |
| bauzas | design change* | 19:52 |
| TheJulia | Yes, but it is a matter of you don't know what you don't know | 19:52 |
| JayF | clarkb: bauzas: for example, if I had an operator who had strong opinions about $feature that I had spec'd, I'd happily paste it into a slack text snippet to give them a chance to give basic comments on it | 19:52 |
| TheJulia | and if you have no means to communicate easily... then how do you engage and get more feedback | 19:53 |
| JayF | and/or maybe this brings it into focus that they need gerrit access, and they can go down that line (I need access to this website is much easier than getting access to something like IRC which is used frequently as C&C for botnets) | 19:53 |
| clarkb | ya but IRC is basically just a website | 19:53 |
| clarkb | either via matrix or irccloud | 19:53 |
| TheJulia | But that also requires agreeing and having an account to have a comment recorded. | 19:53 |
| bauzas | you don't need SSH access for communicating thru gerrit UI | 19:53 |
| bauzas | you tho need a contributor access | 19:54 |
| fungi | fwiw, it's also been suggested in the past that the tc and community leaders should participate on wechat/wexin too, in order to meet the chinese users and operators where they are | 19:54 |
| TheJulia | But you need an account with a login | 19:54 |
| bauzas | which is IMHO the best approach | 19:54 |
| fungi | so having to "be everywhere" already isn't hypothetical | 19:54 |
| bauzas | if you want to intervene on a design discussion, you somehow need to consider yourself being part of the community | 19:54 |
| TheJulia | Yes, but again, you don't know what you don't know. When you shift with an operational mindset, your in a firefighting mode so your not actively cycling back to "oh, it is design discussion time" | 19:55 |
| fungi | it was suggested that in china nobody is allowed to participate in discussions except on wexin, so we should be talking to them there | 19:55 |
| TheJulia | wexin?! | 19:55 |
| fungi | sorry, weixin | 19:55 |
| fungi | aka wechat (not to be confused with weechat) | 19:56 |
| TheJulia | Still haven't heard of it before now | 19:56 |
| TheJulia | ahh, I... haven't signed into wechat in ages | 19:56 |
| fungi | "WeChat" is the international name for it | 19:56 |
| TheJulia | Ahh! | 19:56 |
| fungi | but apparently in china you're using weixin | 19:56 |
| TheJulia | That doesn't surprise me actually, super common practice | 19:57 |
| bauzas | as I said earlier, I'm connected to the Wechat instance for openstack | 20:00 |
| bauzas | but speaking of fragmented communities, this isn't by tooling | 20:00 |
| bauzas | everything there is in mandarine | 20:00 |
| TheJulia | Uhhh.. I know in one-on-one chats it would auto-translate for me in the past | 20:02 |
| TheJulia | But groups, yeah, all native language | 20:02 |
| clarkb | auto translate and censor :) | 20:03 |
| fungi | it can do everything! | 20:07 |
| fungi | also auto-report your subversive comments and your gps coordinates, of course | 20:07 |
| TheJulia | wheeeeeeeee | 20:11 |
| TheJulia | Dystopian future for everyone! | 20:12 |
| TheJulia | </sarcasm> | 20:12 |
| fungi | trust the computer, the computer is your friend | 20:13 |
| * fungi hasn't played paranoia in far too long | 20:13 | |
| bauzas | heh, thelounge is an easy peasy | 20:50 |
| bauzas_ | znc, I'll miss you | 20:50 |
| fungi | the demos i saw for it years ago seemed really good (at least for those who prefer doing things in a browser), and i suspect it's only gotten better since then | 20:51 |
| bauzas_ | it has a nice PWA, so I won't use the webclient as it is | 20:51 |
| fungi | oh cool | 20:52 |
| bauzas_ | I'll continue to run znc for a while just for the sake of any missing gap | 20:52 |
| bauzas_ | and the docker container is a PET :) | 20:52 |
| fungi | the main challenges we kept hitting for every proposal to host such things were account management and abuse handling | 20:53 |
| bauzas_ | I'll just persist the dir | 20:53 |
| bauzas_ | fungi: yeah I feel your pain | 20:53 |
| fungi | basically how do we avoid providing malicious users with a free proxy to hide behind | 20:53 |
| bauzas_ | yup | 20:53 |
| fungi | we sidestepped that for matrix by only hosting channels and (our own) bot accounts on opendev's homeserver, while expecting users to bring their own matrix accounts | 20:55 |
| bauzas_ | IIRC, you could integrate LDAP with thelounge, making having an OpenInfra account a required need, but that wouldn't help giving an easy method :) | 20:55 |
| bauzas_ | Oh heh, the mobile app is very nicely progressive too | 20:56 |
| fungi | yeah, i mean we have keycloak.opendev.org already, but that only shifts the account management burden elsewhere (ultimately we'll set that up to let users authenticate with external id providers and do openid/oidc so that we still don't have to be responsible for their actual accounts, but we're not there yet) | 20:57 |
| bauzas_ | 👍 | 20:57 |
| bauzas_ | (heh, emojis work too) | 20:58 |
| bauzas_ | fungi: how do you protect today malicious users to join a channel ? | 20:59 |
| bauzas_ | I mean, I understand the problem to solve, but as of now, anyone can just go to any OFTC channel and say bad things | 21:00 |
| fungi | in irc? by not actually running the irc network ourselves, oftc does that | 21:00 |
| bauzas_ | then I'm confused | 21:00 |
| fungi | yes, the oftc server/network admins can block abusive clients | 21:00 |
| bauzas_ | oh I see | 21:00 |
| fungi | we're not running irc servers | 21:01 |
| bauzas_ | yeah that I know, but I was confused | 21:01 |
| fungi | but if we were to host thelounge for users, malicious users could connect through/hide behind our instance of it and then all oftc can really do is block our thelounge and every user relying on it | 21:01 |
| bauzas_ | yeah gotcha | 21:02 |
| bauzas_ | that would be the server IP address that would connect to oftc, not the malicious user's irc client | 21:03 |
| bauzas_ | sorry this is late here, I guess I should stop | 21:03 |
| fungi | right | 21:04 |
| fungi | so we'd basically need people keeping a very close eye on it all the time in order to try to prevent that from happening | 21:04 |
| JayF | bauzas: fungi: the irccloud approach to this: unique, unchanging uids. If you ban my entire host (sid####@*.irccloud.com), it'll ban my account permanently. | 21:13 |
| JayF | and they have an abuse email for more systemmatic abuse, so they can IP ban on the irccloud side anyone who might be cycling accounts | 21:13 |
| bauzas | well, thelounge does support auth | 21:13 |
| bauzas | but the burner goes then to the infra team | 21:14 |
| bauzas | you just explained why irrcloud isn't free | 21:14 |
| JayF | well, it's "free" -- you can use it for free indefinately, with the primary limitation being channel/server numbers and that your bouncer gets disconnected after like 2-3 hours, but it also uses IRCv3 to still give you backlog on supported servers | 21:15 |
| bauzas | anyway, I'm happy we had that convoy, because it eventually forced me to look at thelounge, I was procrastinating for too long | 21:15 |
| fungi | yeah, i get how they're able to make it work, but hosting our own equivalent to irccloud (from an abuse mitigation standpoint) is where this would be challenging | 21:16 |
| JayF | oh yeah, I'm not saying you all should take it on, if anything I'm saying it needs specific engineering thinking | 21:17 |
| fungi | right, i was basically explaining why the prior specs for opendev to host thelounge or rocket.chat for users ended up going nowhere | 21:19 |
| bauzas | hmmm, thelounge notifications can only be enabled over HTTPS connections | 21:24 |
| bauzas | :( | 21:24 |
| bauzas | why shall we all expecting FQDNs for accessing local servers ? :) | 21:25 |
| JayF | You can get a *.domain.tld for your homelab; that's what I did. | 21:26 |
| JayF | (or really in my case; *.home.domain.tld) | 21:26 |
| bauzas | yeah I already do this stuff with my external access but indeed I also need to do that for wilcarded subdomain | 21:29 |
| * bauzas just bought the unifi cloud gateway fiber, so he very trusts his network | 21:29 | |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: Appoint Felipe Reyes as PTL for OpenStack Charms https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/943254 | 22:19 |
| opendevreview | Dmitriy Chubinidze proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: docs: increasing file descriptor limit https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/944080 | 22:55 |
| opendevreview | Dmitriy Chubinidze proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: docs: increasing file descriptor limit https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/944080 | 23:09 |
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