| *** gthiemon1e is now known as gthiemonge | 11:11 | |
| gouthamr | fungi: how can the TC send some information to the foundation staff? is there a ML? | 18:02 |
|---|---|---|
| gouthamr | i want to send some stuff that isn't necessarily confidential, but, i don't know if you all are on openstack-discuss, and if you'd need a tag if i used that.. | 18:03 |
| clarkb | gouthamr: it probably depends on what the subject is. There is a mail alias for summit stuff iirc for example. But also the mailing list has an archive people can review | 18:10 |
| clarkb | and then respond to from the web ui if necessary | 18:10 |
| gouthamr | clarkb: was going to follow up on the election stuff once we wrap up in a couple of days | 18:11 |
| clarkb | gouthamr: to ask about the membership renewals? | 18:12 |
| gouthamr | yeah, basically start a brainstorm i think based on the final data we'll get from election officials | 18:13 |
| fungi | gouthamr: enough of the relevant staff members already subscribe to openstack-discuss, and i'll circulate the archive url for your post to them in case any don't notice it | 18:14 |
| gouthamr | ack, that would be neat, ty fungi clarkb | 18:14 |
| fungi | related to that, i'm working on the 2025.2/flamingo cycle contributor analysis right now, and can work on comparing percentage membership at the end of last cycle to this cycle as a data point | 18:17 |
| gouthamr | nice | 18:17 |
| fungi | the numbers won't be the same as for the electorate since that's based on two-cycle/one-year date ranges, but since i don't have the raw output that the election officials used last election that's the best i can do | 18:19 |
| gouthamr | we didn't connect on the data! i have a copy, and so does ianychoi | 18:20 |
| fungi | okay, cool, i can also just show you how to trivially extract the counts | 18:22 |
| clarkb | fwiw I did think about this a bit too and I think part of the problem is we're approaching the problem backwards. When we have a week to go we're in panic mode trying to get people to sign. Instead there should probably more of a continuous process to explain the benefits of membership to contributors and what the requirements for voting are. I think spotz[m] mentioned that | 18:22 |
| clarkb | something like this was done in the past but I don't think we're doing it anymore | 18:22 |
| gouthamr | fungi: ack, let me know | 18:22 |
| fungi | well, also the memberships expire if people don't vote in foundation board (now governing board) elections, so should reflect mostly-active folks regardless | 18:23 |
| gouthamr | clarkb: yes, that's the idea discussing this now so we can prep for the next round of elections | 18:23 |
| clarkb | ya the message probably needs to be something along the lines of "If you contribute to OpenStack and want to have a say in its future direction make sure you are a foundation member, vote in the board elections, and vote in technical elections. Check here to see if you are already a member. DOn't forget to allow civs emails too" | 18:24 |
| gouthamr | o.O membership expiry is another wrench in this that i wasn't thinking of.. | 18:25 |
| gouthamr | clarkb: +1 | 18:25 |
| JayF | I also suggest in that message indicating that a neutral vote (intentional abstain) is better than completely not voting | 18:26 |
| JayF | because at least we get an idea of engagement | 18:26 |
| clarkb | and then get that message out regularly | 18:26 |
| clarkb | and also accepting that a large number of contributors probably don't care is just reality | 18:28 |
| fungi | gouthamr: `grep -c '^[^ ]' _all_owners.yaml` will get you the total count of contributors in the qualifying date range, `grep -c '^ member:' _all_owners.yaml` is the count of contributors who had a matching individual membership, and `grep -c '^ nonmember:' _all_owners.yaml` is the count who had a foundation profile with no membership (so-called "community members" though I'm | 18:28 |
| fungi | still trying hard to get them to change that term) | 18:28 |
| fungi | basic subtraction of the second and third numbers from the first is the contributors with no foundation profile (individual member or otherwise) | 18:29 |
| fungi | note that at least two "contributors" without memberships are the proposal bot and release bot, btw | 18:29 |
| gouthamr | from the election in March 2025: | 18:31 |
| gouthamr | 1) total count of contributors: 645 | 18:31 |
| gouthamr | 2) foundation "individual" member contributors: 255 | 18:31 |
| gouthamr | 3) foundation "community" member contributors: 217 | 18:31 |
| gouthamr | 4) Non member contributors: 173 | 18:31 |
| gouthamr | ty fungi ^ | 18:31 |
| gouthamr | JayF: yeah i agree | 18:32 |
| fungi | gouthamr: so you'll want to compare those between the first and second elections. in particular the ratio of #2 to #1 is mainly what we're curious about, i think, how that changed from last election to this one | 18:33 |
| gouthamr | yes | 18:33 |
| fungi | so in the march election, 40% of contributors were individual members. and i'm wondering if that percentage decreased for this election | 18:34 |
| fungi | if so, it could be related to the reestablishment process | 18:35 |
| clarkb | you probably also want to compare turnout too. Its possible turnout stays steady while membership decreases. | 18:35 |
| clarkb | basically the same group of people voting in both elections ebcause they are engaged | 18:35 |
| gouthamr | turnout actually has marginally increased | 18:35 |
| fungi | yes, how many votes are cast is useful, also how many qualified voters didn't opt into e-mail from civs has some impact on that | 18:36 |
| * gouthamr says that with the provisional data ianychoi shared last week | 18:36 | |
| fungi | looking at epoxy vs flamingo contributors, the percentage of members fell from 42% to 32%, though the total number of contributors increased from 450 to 481 | 18:38 |
| fungi | it's my first time seeing these numbers, that's a pretty substantial contributor count increase, especially since it's been steadily decreasing cycle over cycle in recent history | 18:40 |
| gouthamr | that's encouraging | 18:40 |
| fungi | doing a 1:1 mapping of contributors is possible, though a bit of work, but i'm wondering if the bulk of those new contributors aren't foundation members | 18:41 |
| fungi | well, may not be "new" in an overall sense, but new compared to the prior cycle anyway | 18:41 |
| fungi | (they could also be returning contributors who took a cycle off) | 18:42 |
| spotz[m] | clarkb: I'll make sure to mention it during Zero to Code workshop | 18:57 |
| fungi | there were 196 distinct contributors in epoxy who did not contribute in flamingo, and 227 contributors in flamingo who did not contribute in epoxy. as overall percentages that's 44% of epoxy contributors not contributing in the following cycle and 47% of flamingo contributors that didn't contribute in the prior cycle | 18:59 |
| fungi | though since roughly 40% of the contributors per cycle only had 1 merged change in that period, it's likely we're mostly looking at those who contribute about one change a year there | 19:03 |
| gouthamr | okay, you may have these numbers, but, for this election: | 19:05 |
| gouthamr | 1) total count of contributors: 657 (+12) | 19:05 |
| gouthamr | 2) foundation "individual" member contributors: 173 (-82) | 19:05 |
| gouthamr | 3) foundation "community" member contributors: 321 (+104) | 19:05 |
| gouthamr | 4) Non member contributors: 163 (-10) | 19:05 |
| gouthamr | Percentage of Individual member contributors in March: 39.5% | 19:05 |
| gouthamr | Percentage of Individual member contributors in September: 26.3% | 19:05 |
| fungi | that sounds roughly comparable with what i'm seeing for per-cycle stats | 19:07 |
| fungi | 81% of "new" flamingo contributors (those who didn't contribute to the prior cycle) do not have foundation individual memberships | 19:14 |
| fungi | so that's 19% who do, compared with 43% of returning contributors | 19:16 |
| fungi | returning contributors are more than twice as likely to be foundation members | 19:17 |
| gouthamr | wow, so it reinforces our initial thought that new contributors may not know what they need to do | 19:21 |
| fungi | well, as i said earlier, there's a good chance that a lot of these are longer-term contributors who contribute less than once a cycle, so maybe not really completely new | 19:22 |
| gouthamr | i'd expect a small percentage of folks not wanting to worry about sustaining the community etc, but, i for one didn't campaign to new contributors during onboarding to register as individual members | 19:22 |
| gouthamr | fungi: ack | 19:23 |
| fungi | and it also makes sense that people with lower contribution frequency are likely to be less invested in governance details like voting in elections for the foundation or project | 19:23 |
| gouthamr | super hard to isolate that lot.. | 19:25 |
| fungi | from a demographic collection perspective, foundation profiles of any kind rose from 75% to 78% of contributors, percentage with a declared country held steady at 64%, those listing affiliations increased from 54% to 57% of contributors | 19:32 |
| fungi | the increase in overall profiles may correlate to the increase in affiliations disclosed, improved coverage for org participation stats as a driving factor in getting contributors to create profiles | 19:34 |
| clarkb | is community membership necessary to submit to the summit cfp? | 19:39 |
| clarkb | I wonder if that helsp skew things in the second half of the year | 19:39 |
| fungi | yes | 19:40 |
| fungi | it very well could be a contributing factor | 19:41 |
| spotz[m] | I was going to say you didn't need to but then I remembered you have to log in | 20:02 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/openstack-manuals master: Glossary - add information about 2026.1 Gazpacho release https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/960922 | 20:04 |
| fungi | spotz[m]: also the speaker profile for the cfp uses it | 20:06 |
| spotz[m] | Yeah so because of those things folks had to join, but if they weren't in place they wouldn't have had to to speak | 20:06 |
| -opendevstatus- NOTICE: The Gerrit service on review.opendev.org will be offline briefly for a quick patch update, but will return within a few minutes | 21:09 | |
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