| opendevreview | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: Imported Translations from Zanata https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/947180 | 04:40 |
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| bauzas | gouthamr: reminder that I won't again be able to attend today's meeting due to conflicting appointment :( | 14:16 |
| gouthamr | ack bauzas | 14:36 |
| *** Guest26673 is now known as clarkb | 14:46 | |
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| * gouthamr forgot to remind folks here about the meeting | 16:51 | |
| gouthamr | the irony | 16:51 |
| gouthamr | tc-members: we'll be catching up here in ~8 minutes for our weekly meeting | 16:52 |
| gouthamr | #startmeeting tc | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue Sep 16 17:00:20 2025 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gouthamr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 17:00 |
| gouthamr | Welcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct. | 17:00 |
| gouthamr | Today's meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 17:00 |
| gouthamr | #topic Roll Call | 17:00 |
| cardoe | o/ | 17:01 |
| noonedeadpunk | o/ | 17:01 |
| mnasiadka | o/ | 17:01 |
| spotz[m] | o/ | 17:02 |
| gouthamr | courtesy-ping: frickler, gtema, jbernard | 17:03 |
| frickler | \o | 17:03 |
| gtema | o/ | 17:03 |
| gouthamr | noted absence: b a u z a s, g m a a n | 17:03 |
| gouthamr | that's everyone | 17:04 |
| gouthamr | lets get started | 17:04 |
| gouthamr | #topic Last Week's AIs | 17:04 |
| gouthamr | we're past the RC1 deadline, so some action items may come back - but, i'll still hold the one on the resolution with guidelines for phone-home from openstack | 17:05 |
| gouthamr | the ongoing elections will wrap up at 2345 UTC on September 17th 2025.. we had an AI follow up with issues that affected this election.. | 17:06 |
| gouthamr | i had a chat with TheJulia if this would be appropriate to surface to the OpenInfra Board | 17:07 |
| gouthamr | however, we decided on first getting this on openstack-discuss because we might need some help from the foundation staff.. | 17:07 |
| gouthamr | a lot of discussion happened here and on #openstack-election - i'll take an AI to compile that information and start a mail thread on openstack-discuss | 17:08 |
| gouthamr | an outcome of that discussion can inform us if we need to approach the foundation legal counsel for any changes we'll want to make to the electorate itself as it was suggested last week | 17:08 |
| * gouthamr hopes that doesn't sound too alarming - is only re-capping parts that seemed like action items :) | 17:09 | |
| gouthamr | noonedeadpunk and seunghunlee added findings on the default charset/collation issue here: | 17:10 |
| gouthamr | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/gazpacho-collations-charsets | 17:10 |
| gouthamr | ^ noonedeadpunk what would be the next steps here? | 17:10 |
| noonedeadpunk | so I've started collecting data on projects and if they do have charset defined in migrations | 17:11 |
| noonedeadpunk | it seems so far that only core projects were doing that, but not all | 17:12 |
| gouthamr | "core projects?" | 17:12 |
| noonedeadpunk | with that I think we need to come up with some kind of "community" goal to align that | 17:12 |
| gouthamr | ack | 17:12 |
| noonedeadpunk | eh, keystone, glance, nova, neutron, cinder | 17:12 |
| noonedeadpunk | like - the most used ones :) | 17:13 |
| noonedeadpunk | the question what this goal it should be... offload responsibility to operators to check and care about charsets/collations or take this repsonsibility consistently across all projects | 17:14 |
| noonedeadpunk | and then provide projects with recommendations on what they ideally should be using | 17:14 |
| noonedeadpunk | and leverage all kind of changes through migrations | 17:15 |
| noonedeadpunk | at least this how I see next steps there | 17:15 |
| clarkb | as a user I think some consistency is a good thing | 17:16 |
| clarkb | we probably won't have universal consistency due to postgres (and potentially other dbs existing) but it is always nice when behaviors don't differ unnecessarily | 17:16 |
| gouthamr | +1, and if a bunch of operators will all have to take the same pain, it makes sense for us to ship this with the projects and have a guideline for future database usage within the projects | 17:17 |
| noonedeadpunk | we don't even know if postgres does work, or intend to work | 17:17 |
| gouthamr | yeah, nope - we've killed all jobs and said there's no testing | 17:17 |
| * noonedeadpunk recalls some ml on the topic of postgres | 17:17 | |
| clarkb | ok then its mariadb vs mysql | 17:18 |
| gouthamr | #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/resolutions/20170613-postgresql-status.html | 17:18 |
| clarkb | basically there is still enough choice here between implementations and versions that we probably can't expect a complete solution but where it makes sense I think consistency is good for users | 17:18 |
| gouthamr | "MySQL family of databases only" | 17:18 |
| noonedeadpunk | vs percona? :) | 17:18 |
| noonedeadpunk | yeah | 17:18 |
| gouthamr | ack, ty for all the information gathering, noonedeadpunk - and for framing the plan | 17:19 |
| gouthamr | we can catch up on this again next week | 17:19 |
| spotz[m] | I think it's fine as long as it's a DB using the mysql style authentication and table structure vs postgres/Oracle type | 17:20 |
| noonedeadpunk | Yeah, I'll totally finish with the project list by EOD, and then we can discuss details and form some kind of base for what we want to do | 17:20 |
| gouthamr | ack | 17:21 |
| mnasiadka | I think the plan should also include testing on latest LTS of MariaDB (because most probably that's what users are using, judging by what the deployment projects are using today), probably something similar on MySQL front - because currently devstack uses what is in-distro - and that's usually a bit old MariaDB/MySQL | 17:21 |
| * gouthamr deja vu - feels like we've had this discussion in the past | 17:22 | |
| noonedeadpunk | in osa we tend to test both in-distro (for distro packaged jobs) and also tend to stick with latest LTS indeed | 17:22 |
| noonedeadpunk | but it would quite postpone adding devstack jobs for distros | 17:23 |
| noonedeadpunk | as it takess a while and a next release of mariadb to add support for new versions | 17:23 |
| noonedeadpunk | so it could be like 3 month after ubuntu LTS being released to mariadb building packages | 17:23 |
| noonedeadpunk | and it was over half a year for CentOS 10 | 17:24 |
| mnasiadka | Well, I rather mentioned MariaDB LTS - of course they tend to be late building packages for new distribution versions - but it is what it is | 17:24 |
| mnasiadka | And CentOS 10/Rocky 10/Alma 10 usability in OpenStack land is a bit... problematic | 17:25 |
| mnasiadka | So I wouldn't worry that much ;-) | 17:25 |
| noonedeadpunk | I'm not sure if it's same level problematic for devstack... | 17:25 |
| mnasiadka | As in I wanted to say that it's still problematic, given some missing packages and other things | 17:25 |
| noonedeadpunk | but I don't know that for sure | 17:25 |
| * noonedeadpunk used devstack too little | 17:25 | |
| mnasiadka | there's now a Rocky 10 devstack platform job, but from what I understand there's not a lot of coverage in there | 17:26 |
| spotz[m] | If a bug were opened for CentOS Stream 10 I would have something to work with... | 17:26 |
| mnasiadka | probably switching tempest to use centos10/rocky10 instead of 9 would give us more, but it's probably a discussion for a different meeting | 17:26 |
| noonedeadpunk | it's not a centos fault I'm discussing, more an ecosystem issue around all EL lately | 17:27 |
| mnasiadka | I can only complain on EPEL and packages that have been removed in EL10 compared to EL9 - but we'll handle that eventually | 17:27 |
| frickler | this is getting a bit offtopic, isn't it? | 17:28 |
| gouthamr | yes | 17:28 |
| mnasiadka | Yes, wanted to say let's get back to databases :) | 17:28 |
| spotz[m] | my specialty:) | 17:28 |
| gouthamr | sorry, it looks like we have a desire to get mariadb latest tested, and also test with CS10/RockyLinux10 (Alma? :) ) tested with projects' devstack based jobs | 17:29 |
| gouthamr | good recommendation - a separate topic, and one probably for the PTG | 17:29 |
| mnasiadka | +1 | 17:29 |
| gouthamr | (agreed that deployment projects shouldn't be the first ones to find these bugs) | 17:30 |
| gouthamr | alright, lets move to the next AI: | 17:30 |
| gouthamr | next steps on leaderless teams: | 17:30 |
| gouthamr | https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/2026.1-leaderless | 17:30 |
| gouthamr | we have waited about ~10 days, and there've been no PTL volunteers for venus, openstack-charms and vitrage | 17:31 |
| * noonedeadpunk thinks it fine for deployment projects to find these bugs first | 17:31 | |
| * noonedeadpunk used to finding some bugs around even openstack dependencies over years | 17:32 | |
| frickler | so shall we move these projects to inactive? | 17:32 |
| mnasiadka | I guess we have no other choice | 17:33 |
| frickler | also no action from the claimed monasca maintainer, looks like only hot air to me, too | 17:33 |
| gouthamr | i could bump the threads again and suggest the next steps: | 17:33 |
| gouthamr | it does look like activity has slowed down in venus, we could propose its retirement in G if there are no volunteers to maintain the project. | 17:33 |
| gouthamr | Vitrage and OpenStack Charms have had contributions - we should check if they prefer to use DPL, or be handed off into a SIG | 17:33 |
| noonedeadpunk | I can potentially pick vitrage... Though capacity wise it's being tough... | 17:34 |
| spotz[m] | Should we check and see if charms is even needed any longer with Sunbeam? | 17:34 |
| gouthamr | i think they told us that the stable version is still being used/maintained | 17:35 |
| frickler | spotz[m]: I tried to contact people in the sunbeam channel, but no response there | 17:35 |
| spotz[m] | Ok | 17:35 |
| fungi | maybe both are effectively inactive? | 17:35 |
| gouthamr | which both? | 17:36 |
| frickler | sunbeam + charms? | 17:36 |
| fungi | both charms and sunbeam were primarily under maintenance by the same organization | 17:36 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/project:%5E.*charms* | 17:36 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/project:%5Eopenstack/charm.* | 17:37 |
| gouthamr | neither are "inactive" | 17:37 |
| spotz[m] | Yeah and at first we questioned if they should be the same project if remembering correctly, it's been a while | 17:37 |
| gouthamr | (we have a PTL for sunbeam too) | 17:37 |
| spotz[m] | That's why I suggested asking them:) | 17:38 |
| fungi | so maybe they just don't use their irc channels in that case | 17:38 |
| fungi | or read posts to the mailing list | 17:38 |
| frickler | which might imply they would work better outside of OpenStack governance? | 17:39 |
| gouthamr | +1 | 17:39 |
| gouthamr | i agree, getting conformance seems like a wild goose chase that i'm not a fan of | 17:40 |
| noonedeadpunk | this reminds me about tripleO now | 17:40 |
| mnasiadka | Sunbeam PTL seems to be active, at least he attended some recent Magnum weekly meetings and was actively working on patches | 17:40 |
| mnasiadka | But Charms might be similar to TripleO | 17:41 |
| noonedeadpunk | we just had a very weird times with TripleO deprecation/retirement | 17:41 |
| gouthamr | noonedeadpunk: in the way that it is inactive? tripleo is retired for good as far as we're concerned.. its maintenance doesn't happen on opendev.org | 17:41 |
| noonedeadpunk | no, not about inactive state, but about what mess it was when they wanted to maintain only specific unmaintained branch, but then not mainatained ones | 17:42 |
| gouthamr | yeah | 17:42 |
| noonedeadpunk | despite being branched and released for them | 17:42 |
| noonedeadpunk | (and as well being a single-company product/project) | 17:42 |
| gouthamr | any further thoughts here besides the ML updates that are necessary? | 17:43 |
| gouthamr | the last AI was taken after the meeting | 17:44 |
| gouthamr | we discussed testing with AlmaLinux over the past week | 17:44 |
| gouthamr | there was a need for a volunteer familiar with the OpenStack ecosystem.. and there was a suggestion to run the effort as a pop up team | 17:45 |
| gouthamr | would anyone on the TC be interested to take this on? | 17:45 |
| noonedeadpunk | I can help out where applicable, but won't stand up for taking the lead | 17:47 |
| * noonedeadpunk doesn't run any EL-like system in production | 17:47 | |
| gouthamr | thanks noonedeadpunk that's appreciated.. i think we've heard similar sentiments from others.. | 17:48 |
| gouthamr | if this is interesting to anyone, it'll be helpful for a lot of reasons as detailed over the past week.. i'll mention this to the ML again | 17:49 |
| gouthamr | that's a wrap on all the ongoing items | 17:50 |
| gouthamr | i'll go out-of-order on the agenda today because we will be pressed for time | 17:50 |
| gouthamr | #topic PTG Scheduling | 17:50 |
| gouthamr | #link https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/thread/B6QU75BPCKBDURPF6UW4K6JWUQ3NKFJJ/ | 17:50 |
| gouthamr | the next thing diablo_rojo/foundation staff helping us run the PTG would do: send out a reminder to schedule slots | 17:51 |
| gouthamr | i was reminded that we had some thoughts last time to dedicate time for cross project discussions | 17:51 |
| Guest26643 | Correct. I will likely get the sign up out early next week. I was going to send the list of confirmed teams out this week | 17:51 |
| Guest26643 | Ughh nick got me again. | 17:51 |
| gouthamr | hey Guest 26642 | 17:51 |
| gouthamr | hey Guest 26643* | 17:52 |
| gouthamr | :P | 17:52 |
| *** Guest26643 is now known as diablo_rojo_phone | 17:52 | |
| gouthamr | do you think the TC could recommend it formally? | 17:52 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | Fixed. | 17:52 |
| gouthamr | diablo_rojo_phone: we wanted project teams to prioritize cross project discussions and set the agendas for this on Oct 27,28 (i.e., first two days of the PTG) | 17:53 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | Like to be included as a part of the sign up kickoff email? | 17:53 |
| JayF | Cross-project discussions are nice in general; but IME the most successful ones have been centered around a specific issue, or specific projects with an interface point. | 17:53 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | I can definitely make that recommendation. | 17:53 |
| diablo_rojo_phone | We have done it in the past so there is definitely precedent. | 17:53 |
| clarkb | the database char type and collation selection would make a good topic | 17:54 |
| gouthamr | and personally, i want to let project teams know that its not okay to book all five western hemisphere slots all five days of the week | 17:54 |
| clarkb | eventlet removal too potentially | 17:54 |
| gouthamr | +1 | 17:54 |
| gouthamr | i'll throw in the TC+project maintainers discussion too, so we can put sundry/governance topics there that don't fit anywhere else | 17:56 |
| gouthamr | i'll share the etherpad here so we can plan topics for the TC discussions | 17:57 |
| gouthamr | that's all i had for $topic | 17:57 |
| gouthamr | anything else to note? | 17:57 |
| gouthamr | #topic A check on gate health | 17:58 |
| mnasiadka | The TC+project maintainers session could be scheduled before call to schedule all $project PTG slots - I always end up having Kolla PTG slots at the time of that session ;-) | 17:58 |
| gouthamr | oh, will try that mnasiadka | 17:58 |
| gouthamr | any gate concerns to note this week? | 17:58 |
| gouthamr | we're past the RC deadline, i hope things were minimally bumpy | 17:59 |
| gouthamr | okay, we're at the hour | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | anything to note for the minutes? | 18:00 |
| clarkb | tkajinam is asking for clarification to vendor ply into yaql | 18:00 |
| clarkb | there is an email on the mailing lsit about it | 18:00 |
| fungi | #link https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/thread/PKWNZ7QL6PRJI2WXMMWYYZYWYZA3Z7E4 Status of ply | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | "Looking at the code, it seems all codes are tagged with BSD 3-clause license[3] | 18:01 |
| gouthamr | though the repository lacks the LICENSE file." | 18:01 |
| fungi | tagged it specifically for tc-members feedback | 18:01 |
| tkajinam | o/ | 18:01 |
| fungi | yeah, the relevant files have bsd-3 licenses included in code comments, which should be sufficient | 18:02 |
| fungi | i don't think it's the first time we've vendored one-or-two-file libraries into openstack projects, though i'd be hard pressed to provide a historical example on the spot | 18:03 |
| gtema | i would prefer not reimplementing the wheel - makes no sense from my pov, so vendor it | 18:03 |
| gouthamr | +1, if we have no legal issues of adding BSD-3 code to our codebase that's apachev2 licensed | 18:04 |
| fungi | "The list of acceptable licenses includes ASLv2, BSD (both forms), MIT, PSF, LGPL, ISC, and MPL." | 18:05 |
| fungi | #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/licensing.html Licensing requirements | 18:05 |
| fungi | "OpenStack projects and libraries ... BSD 2-Clause and 3-Clause licenses meet this requirement." | 18:06 |
| fungi | also | 18:06 |
| gouthamr | ty that's a good clarification | 18:06 |
| fungi | basically the tc has already declared that's fine | 18:06 |
| gouthamr | so would this mean that the code will go to both mistral and heat? or someplace else - oslo? | 18:07 |
| clarkb | I think into yaql | 18:07 |
| tkajinam | gouthamr, my plan was to import the ply code into yaql as its private module | 18:07 |
| gouthamr | AH, ack | 18:08 |
| gouthamr | that sounds like a good plan to | 18:08 |
| tkajinam | so that no change is needed in heat or mistral | 18:08 |
| gouthamr | ++ | 18:08 |
| gouthamr | i can respond on the ML thread | 18:09 |
| gouthamr | lets close the meeting here, but we can continue discussing this if required | 18:09 |
| gouthamr | thank you all for attending | 18:09 |
| gouthamr | #endmeeting | 18:09 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue Sep 16 18:09:53 2025 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:09 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-09-16-17.00.html | 18:09 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-09-16-17.00.txt | 18:09 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-09-16-17.00.log.html | 18:09 |
| spotz[m] | Thanks all | 18:12 |
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