Tuesday, 2026-05-19

opendevreviewMerged openstack/governance master: Update Ansible SIG co-chairs  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98843504:44
opendevreviewMerged openstack/governance master: doc: Fallback to default font if DejaVuSans.ttf not installed  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98847005:11
opendevreviewMerged openstack/governance master: Add devstack-plugin-lustre to QA  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98731405:13
opendevreviewMerged openstack/openstack-manuals master: Add inactive project badge  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/98716305:43
opendevreviewMerged openstack/openstack-manuals master: Add inactive flag to project schema and listing  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/98716405:43
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: Migrate packaging configuration to pyproject.toml  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98915115:12
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: docs: Use ``literals``  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98915215:12
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: Fix bug in projects schema  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98915315:12
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: Bump JSON Schema draft version  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98915415:12
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: reference: Make leadership_type a required key  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98915515:12
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: Add release liaisons for PTL-led projects  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98915615:12
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: Use quotes for all people  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98915715:12
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: reference: Allow irc values to be null  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98915815:12
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: reference: Make appointed an attribute of ptl  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98915915:12
noonedeadpunkhey folks. Won't be able to join the meeting today. From my side update, that doc changes and acl changes for venus retirement were proposed15:24
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: reference: Make leadership_type a required key  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98915515:46
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: Add release liaisons for PTL-led projects  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98915615:46
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: Use quotes for all people  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98915715:46
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: reference: Allow irc values to be null  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98915815:46
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: reference: Make appointed an attribute of ptl  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98915915:46
gouthamrtc-members: a gentle reminder that our weekly IRC meeting will be hosted here in ~55 minutes16:05
gouthamragenda is here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda16:06
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: pti: Update with references to bindep profiles  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98917816:38
bauzasgouthamr: I'll probably need to skip it16:55
gouthamrack bauzas 16:57
gouthamr#startmeeting tc17:00
opendevmeetMeeting started Tue May 19 17:00:20 2026 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is gouthamr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
opendevmeetUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
opendevmeetThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'17:00
gouthamrWelcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct.17:00
gouthamrToday's meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda17:00
gouthamr#topic Roll Call17:01
frickler\o17:01
gouthamrcourtesy-ping: noonedeadpunk, spotz[m], dansmith, cardoe, mnasiadka17:02
mnasiadkao/17:02
mnasiadkanoonedeadpunk mentioned he won’t be here today17:03
gouthamrack mnasiadka; missed it if he mentioned it here17:03
gouthamrPSA: please do edit https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee and add to the "Absence" section if you'd like17:04
dansmitho/17:04
gouthamrnot you, mnasiadka - you do that diligently :D 17:04
gouthamralright, small crowd today.. but lots to cover.. let's get started17:05
gouthamr#topic Last Week's Action Items17:05
gouthamrmnasiadka took an action item regarding Ansible SIG's leadership 17:05
gouthamrhe proposed: 17:06
gouthamr#link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/988435 (Ansible SIG leadership update) 17:06
gouthamrit was merged today, ty for reviews... and quickly because we had aligned already in past meetings and the openstack-discuss ML17:06
gouthamrso now you folks can control "ansible-collections-openstack-release" and any other gerrit groups; please do work with #openstack-infra in case you need to be added by them17:07
mnasiadkaI can add myself with my infra powers17:07
fungiyep, happy to help there17:07
mnasiadkaUnless that’s politically wrong :)17:07
funginope, go for it17:07
gouthamrgreat power, great responsibility and that sort of thing17:08
gouthamrno one dead punk had several action items.. we can pile on more now that he's taken a day off17:08
spotz[m]o/17:08
gouthamrhe meant to push a galaxy publishing role to "openstack-zuul-jobs", and follow up on ACL changes in project-config to allow us to make progress on retirement of venus and deprecation of vitrage17:09
gouthamrwe'll check on these next week17:09
gouthamrnext, frickler: we mentioned the AC resolution for core reviewers in passing last week17:10
cardoeo/17:10
cardoewhoops17:11
* gouthamr marks cardoe and spotz[m] tardy17:11
spotz[m]I get distracted easily?:)17:11
fricklergouthamr: yeah, on my todo list17:11
gouthamr:D okay, some more action items:17:12
gouthamrty frickler 17:12
gouthamrproject tracker management guide (mostly launchpad): 17:12
gouthamr#link https://review.opendev.org/987433 (Add project tracker management guide) 17:12
gouthamrthis was merged, thanks for the reviews17:12
gouthamr"inactive" projects badge changes:17:13
gouthamr#link https://review.opendev.org/q/hashtag:%22inactive-projects-badge%22+(status:open%20OR%20status:merged) 17:13
gouthamrone last change here that needs reviews from openstackdocstheme reviewers17:13
gouthamrthis one looks related too? https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstackdocstheme/+/98716617:14
mnasiadkaThat one is probably a nice improvement - I’ve had people complaining the link gets them to docs.openstack.org/2026.1 instead back to the project-docs but for proper release17:15
gouthamrah17:15
gouthamrthey're in merge conflict with each other.. so needs a rebase17:15
gouthamrthanks for working on this mnasiadka.. love the visibility when we need it17:16
mnasiadkaOk, will do, once one of them gets merged :)17:16
cardoeThey've got a +1 from me.17:16
gouthamralright, that's all the action items i was tracking.. was anyone working on anything else to note here17:17
gouthamri'll note that there's no PQC related channel yet (mharley[m], fyi) and bauzas is trying to kick everyone out of #openstack-agentic-work flows (intention, don't join :P) 17:18
gouthamrso he can register the channel17:18
mnasiadkafun17:20
gouthamrif you downloaded a calendar invite for this meeting17:20
gouthamrplease download it again17:20
gouthamr#link https://meetings.opendev.org/#Technical_Committee_Meeting (TC meeting ical) 17:20
gouthamrthe event was updated again17:20
gouthamralright, let's move to the next topic:17:21
gouthamr#topic Updates to PTI (stephenfin)17:21
gouthamrstephenfin's been proposing a number of governance changes relating to the PTI (mostly fixing outdated info in the python PTI) 17:22
gouthamrstephenfin: here? and would you like to take us through this?17:23
stephenfinSure. There are a few closely related changes here.17:23
stephenfin1. requirements.txt files are slowly going away in Python packaging. One of the replacements is dependency-groups. I've proposed updating the PTI to capture how to use them and to try ensure projects use similarly named dependency groups, just as we use similarly name tox testenvs etc.17:25
stephenfintbc, I haven't covered the reason for dependency-groups themselves in the changes since the relevant PEPs already do that. The focus here is purely cross-project consistency17:26
gouthamrack, this looks good to me.. what's the timeline around the removal? and are dependency groups supported in all python versions in our current PTI?17:27
clarkbPBR directly supports requirements files so the main removal to worry about is probably support in tools like pip to install requirements file?17:28
stephenfinNo idea. I suspect not soon, since it's still a widely used pattern, but we have been burned before when it comes to the PyPA17:28
stephenfinclarkb: yes exactly17:29
stephenfindependency-groups do admittedly come with some advantages also, particularly when it comes to granularity of dependencies for different types of thing. For example, you can have different targets for functional tests vs. unit tests. This is handy when building images.17:30
stephenfinbut I haven't suggested mandating their use for now. For now, we just want to have consistency as some projects start adopting them17:31
gouthamrack, that's good direction.. ty for proposing it 17:32
stephenfinMoving on. 2. cardoe has noted that we would benefit from codifying the same expectation wrt bindep and its profiles. This already exists in people's heads, so it's just a case of writing it down. I've another patch up to do that.17:32
cardoeOverall this is a good way of codifying / programmatic-ifying our dependencies in one place/way vs convention.17:33
fungiyeah, we already have an established pattern of matching up bindep profile names to tox env names, for example17:34
fungijust because it makes things like writing ci jobs easier17:34
gouthamr+1 17:35
stephenfincardoe: Yes, exactly. By writing this down, we get this knowledge out of people's heads. It's also likely useful for agents. (iirc the outcome of the TC PTG session on this was that we should avoid agent-focused docs in favour of human docs that we can point the agents to)17:35
stephenfin3. I've noted that the golang PTI is massively out-of-date, and references tools that no longer exist plus patterns that don't make sense in modern Go. I've proposed adding a warning to this effect, but an alternative would be to just delete the doc and recreate it if/when someone wants to use Go again. I'm okay with either approach17:36
gouthamryes17:36
gouthamr+1'ed the warning for now17:36
gouthamrdeletion is fine as well.. because it's useless to have outdated/unused information17:37
fungiright, it was written 9 years ago and then essentially never exercised since the need for it quickly evaporated17:37
cardoeI'm good with nuking it as well.17:37
gouthamrokay any objections to dropping the golang doc from our PTI?17:39
mnasiadkaIf nobody is using it, let’s just drop it?17:39
stephenfinthe only argument I can see for keeping it is that someone refreshing it is likely to be an easier/less contentious lift than what will then look like a wholly new proposal, but that's a social/communication issue, not a technical one17:39
fungithe main benefit it has provided is serving as an example in case anyone wants to add another language in the future17:39
fungiit's been useful to point at, but we can also just point at old copies from the git repository history too17:40
gouthamri meant to draft a resolution and updates to the "adding new languages" guide.. we have context and can share it with people that want that 17:40
gouthamr+117:40
stephenfinas in, people will discuss the merits of supporting go and rehash arguments from 9 years ago rather than assuming that to be a settled debate and focusing on the actual change17:40
stephenfinthough fungi makes a good point about providing a baseline for != python languages too17:40
stephenfinI can propose a follow-up to just remove it and discuss there17:41
gouthamrty stephenfin 17:41
gouthamranything else for $topic?17:42
stephenfinno, that's all17:42
gouthamrokay, i'll go a bit out of order and pull this one from you:17:42
gouthamr#topic Mandating use of pyproject.toml files (stephenfin)17:42
cardoeLet's just +2/+w this one and move on. :D17:43
cardoeis my support too obvious there?17:43
spotz[m]hehe17:43
gouthamrstephenfin: a lot of repos have been adopting this.. thanks to you/tkajinam/others doing this work17:43
stephenfinas I've written on the agenda, 95% [*] of projects now use these files. Having all projects use them helps contributors the same way the rest of the PTI helps17:43
gouthamri guess its non-controversial for project teams.. the lift though is in gradually moving more things into pyproject.toml 17:44
stephenfin[*] not an actual figure, but it is very high at this point 17:44
fungithe sooner we do it, the sooner we'll (eventually) have it in all stable branches and be able to finally pin setuptools when it breaks us again17:44
stephenfinI would like to do this via the requirements check job. That's enabled for all openstack deliverables17:44
tkajinamyou are talking about the "minimum" pyproject.toml, right ?17:44
tkajinamnot the one with full contents replacing most of the setup.cfg things17:44
stephenfintkajinam: Yes. I don't see a reason not to do the whole thing at this point, but the minimal one gets us build isolation which is the most crucial aspect17:45
cardoebuild isolation as a first step would be huge for cleaning up builds17:45
gouthamryes ^ although, some of this, our hands are being forced to make a migration because of the packaging/tooling.. it'd be lovely to be proactive17:45
tkajinamyeah I totally agree with the full migration. stephenfin, I agree. I just wanted to make sure that I understand correctly the baseline you are referring to in that "95%"17:46
fungifrom a release tooling standpoint, we should be fine since we've (afaik) replaced all prior use of `setup.py ...` with calls to pyproject-build17:46
cardoeworth noting that PyPA has setup.cfg planned for deprecation. They've just not formally said its deprecated NOW so start your timer.17:47
fungiso now we essentially rely on the setuptools implicit fallback in cases where there is no pyproject.toml file17:47
stephenfincardoe: that shouldn't affect us since we've got pbr17:47
tkajinammakes sense17:47
cardoestephenfin: we'll have to pull in more code from setuptools into pbr17:48
stephenfinnah, iirc we don't use any of setuptools' ini-parsing logic. pbr's logic all massively predates that17:48
funginot that much code, just some additional metadata options that aren't plumbed in pbr yet, right?17:48
stephenfinclarkb and fungi will give you a good history lesson on it sometime if you ask nicely17:49
stephenfinfungi: I think *everything* in setup.cfg is handled explicitly by us, but maybe don't quote me on that17:49
fungiremember that pbr's setup.cfg existed long before setuptools grew one of its own (both inherited from distutils, originally)17:49
stephenfinIn any case, just because we can continue to support it doesn't mean we should. Many (most?) projects have migrated to pyproject.toml now so we just need to catch the laggards up17:50
clarkbthe one corner case is if you use a setuptools setup.cfg directive that pbr won't handle but setuptools will17:50
clarkbbut otherwise yes I think it is papered over17:50
stephenfingouthamr: I'm not sure how to have a "vote" on this one, given my proposal here is to enforce via the requirements-check job (which lives somewhere like openstack/openstack-zuul-jobs or openstack/releases, iirc)17:52
gouthamrstephenfin: yes, so if it's possible to call this out explicitly in the PTI, we should17:52
stephenfindo I just update the PTI again to say all projects must have a pyproject.toml file?17:52
gouthamrand then reference that in the requirements/zuul changes17:52
stephenfinjinx. okay, I'll do that too17:52
gouthamr++17:53
gouthamranything else for $topic?17:53
stephenfinno17:53
gouthamrokay, we're short on time.. we'll try to keep rolling.. 17:53
gouthamrthe next couple of topics are intertwined17:53
gouthamr#topic Keeping release liaisons up to date (Duplicate info for DPL teams, inactive liaisons)17:53
gouthamri was raising an issue where the release team maintains a list of release liaisons17:54
gouthamrand it frequently goes out of date17:54
gouthamrand the governance repo tracks release liaisons only for DPL teams17:54
gouthamrthis is a problem, because we don't really know who to ping/poke when we run into release issues.. the release team's pings go into the ether when the person tagged in the release repo is no longer involved with the project17:55
gouthamr#link https://opendev.org/openstack/governance/src/branch/master/reference/projects.yaml17:55
gouthamr#link https://opendev.org/openstack/releases/src/branch/master/data/release_liaisons.yaml17:55
gouthamrwhile i was thinking of this problem, stephenfin had a solution for it17:55
gouthamr#link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/989156/117:55
gouthamri'm happy with the solution myself, if this is acceptable to the release team17:56
gouthamrwe can orient project maintainers towards keeping project.yaml updated 17:56
gouthamrand forget about this inconsistency17:57
cardoe+1 from me17:57
stephenfinthe governance change shouldn't be blocked by the release team, given we benefit from having a single source of truth regardless of what they want. However, I will work with them on this and would be (very) surprised if they had objections to this17:57
gouthamrfrickler: fungi: you're on the release team and here :) any early feedback?17:58
stephenfin(I would also like to move the branch status data currently stored in openstack/releases to openstack/governance, but that's a job for another day)17:58
fungithere are a couple of openstack/releases changes proposed which depend on it17:58
fungiand yeah, we've got longstanding consensus that deduplicating it to avoid divergence would be good17:59
gouthamrgreat!17:59
fungimainly as long as we don't move things from releases to governance that blocks the release team's ability to get work done, it should be fine18:00
gouthamr+1.. 18:01
gouthamrthis should help, not hurt.. 18:01
gouthamrwill resolve issues like iurygregory telling us he needs to be release liaison, but ironic's DPL doesn't mention him in the governance repo.. i'd just add him in governance 18:01
fungiwe just don't want to be in a situation where typical release processes are held up waiting for the tc to approve governance changes18:01
fungiwhere liaisons are concerned, the release team has a relief valve it can open anyway18:02
gouthamrno, i'd be in favor of this list being covered under "project_updates" - will need 2 tc votes and no waiting period if there's some ack from the release team and/or the project team itself18:02
gouthamroops18:02
gouthamrtime check18:02
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: pti: Remove Go doc  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98918918:02
gouthamrlooks like we're trending towards agreement here18:02
gouthamrthank you for bringing these topics stephenfin, and for working on all of this!18:03
gouthamrdoes anyone want to note anything else for the minutes today?18:03
stephenfinnw18:03
* gouthamr googles what that means18:03
gouthamrhttps://www.reddit.com/r/fo76/comments/bzh56j/what_does_nw_mean/ lol18:04
gouthamrthank you all for attending.. we'll be back here next week.. 18:04
gouthamr#endmeeting18:04
opendevmeetMeeting ended Tue May 19 18:04:29 2026 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:04
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opendevmeetMinutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2026/tc.2026-05-19-17.00.txt18:04
opendevmeetLog:            https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2026/tc.2026-05-19-17.00.log.html18:04
gouthamroh, "no worries"18:04
spotz[m]Thanks all18:05
* gouthamr slaps himself with a large trout, takes a coffee break18:05
cardoeSo stephenfin since you're still around... I'll do this here for visibly.18:08
cardoeWhat do we think of changing some of the behavior of python-openstackclient in the future and standardizing the arguments around project scoping?18:08
stephenfinThat's what gtema has done with their rust CLI. I've no objections to it, but it would be a large, potentially breaking change18:10
cardoeWell we can take a couple of approaches here.18:11
cardoeSo for example "openstack port list" vs "openstack server list" defaults. If you're an admin role you get all ports but you don't get all servers.18:11
cardoeWe can standardize adding "--all-projects" along with "--project" to commands and not changing the default behavior.18:12
cardoeSome commands also inconsistently have "--project-domain" when they take "--project"18:13
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: pti: Insist on minimal pyproject.toml  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98919318:13
spotz[m]Adding a flag needed kind of does change the default if it's required, if not required ignre18:13
stephenfinThe --project-domain thing shouldn't ever happen. If those options are missing, that's a bug18:14
gtemathere are 30 options now already, let's add 31th to rule them all.18:14
stephenfin / missing feature, depending on how you want to look at it. An agent would do a good job of finding/fixing all of those18:14
cardoeI think they were mostly in plugins to OSC and not in OSC itself.18:15
stephenfinAh, that would make sense. This is what you lose by them not all being in a single mono-repo18:15
stephenfin(not technically a mono-repo but you know what I mean)18:15
fungii would consider those inconsistencies bugs worth fixing in the plugins where they occur18:16
stephenfinAgreed. The `add_*_domain_option_to_parser` helpers from `openstackclient.identity.common` should probably go into osc-lib for this18:19
cardoeWell I've stuck my Claude on re-implementing python-ironicclient's OSC commands using openstacksdk and not its own client. Once that's good enough I'm gonna propose them to python-openstackclient and openstacksdk for the missing bits.18:26
cardoeThen I'll rewrite the standalone ironicclient that folks want to use openstacksdk as well. And we'll just deprecate the standalone API library.18:27
cardoeIf gtema adds websso support to the Rust CLI I'll use it.18:27
gtemait is there since a year18:28
gtemabut since Keystone sso design is so crap it is not the greatest UX18:29
cardoehttps://github.com/gtema/openstack/issues/1673 afaik was the issue around it which is opened still18:30
cardoeah I see https://gtema.github.io/openstack/auth.html#v3websso 18:30
cardoealright I'll give it a shot.18:30
gtemalooking forward to your feedback18:31
cardoeSo that leads me to my next question18:49
cardoeWho controls the schema of clouds.yaml?18:49
gtemasort of sdk team, but please also consider https://github.com/gtema/openstack/discussions/138418:50
cardoeYep. I agree with that.18:51
cardoeBut we should have the schema for that somewhere on openstack.org18:51
cardoeThere's a number of issues with that file18:51
gtemathere are number of issues with authn/authz in OpenStack as such, but people are always afraid of touching anything when I talk about that18:52
gtemathe schema is constructed from https://opendev.org/openstack/openstacksdk/src/branch/master/openstack/config/schema.json + https://opendev.org/openstack/openstacksdk/src/branch/master/openstack/config/vendor-schema.json + regular untyped stuff18:53
opendevreviewStephen Finucane proposed openstack/governance master: Update tooling for required deliverable_type  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/98921720:11

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