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| jed56 | hello edleafe | 07:48 |
|---|---|---|
| jed56 | when you will have some time,I would like to discuss with the nova-policies spec | 07:48 |
| jed56 | I think that I was not enough clear about the scope of this specification. | 07:48 |
| jed56 | I agree with you that since the implementation of 'check-destination-on-migrations-newton' | 07:49 |
| jed56 | blueprint the nova scheduler is able to check if the live migration will breaks the scheduler rules. | 07:49 |
| jed56 | However, you have to think this specification from the point of view of Watcher. | 07:49 |
| jed56 | Do you think that we can optimize a system without know his constraints ? | 07:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/watcher: Fix StrategyContext to use the strategy_id in the Audit Template https://review.openstack.org/327098 | 08:32 |
| openstackgerrit | Tomasz Kaczynski proposed openstack/watcher: Add scoring engines to database and API layers https://review.openstack.org/330382 | 08:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Tomasz Kaczynski proposed openstack/python-watcherclient: Add scoring engine commands https://review.openstack.org/330385 | 08:59 |
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| alexchadin | Good day! | 09:24 |
| jed56 | You too :) | 09:31 |
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| jed56 | tkaczynski: you should in your commit message Partially-Implements: blueprint scoring-module | 09:57 |
| jed56 | *add | 09:57 |
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| tkaczynski | jed56: thanks, will do. also, I've noticed that some tempest tests failed. do you know how can I run that locally and debug? | 10:16 |
| tkaczynski | apparently adding a new endpoint to the api breaks some tests | 10:17 |
| openstackgerrit | Tomasz Kaczynski proposed openstack/python-watcherclient: Add scoring engine commands https://review.openstack.org/330385 | 10:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Tomasz Kaczynski proposed openstack/watcher: Add scoring engines to database and API layers https://review.openstack.org/330382 | 10:19 |
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| jed56 | tkaczynski: yes we are aware of the tempest problem | 11:30 |
| tkaczynski | is this something I can fix or this is the infrastructure problem? | 11:31 |
| jed56 | tkaczynski: yes you can follow https://factory.b-com.com/www/watcher/doc/watcher/dev/testing.html | 11:31 |
| tkaczynski | jed56: I've followed these steps and there is a problem: this directory cd <TEMPEST_DIR>/watcher-cloud/etc doesn't exists | 11:33 |
| tkaczynski | after tempest init command | 11:33 |
| jed56 | $ cd <TEMPEST_DIR> | 11:34 |
| jed56 | $ tempest init --config-dir ./etc watcher-cloud | 11:34 |
| tkaczynski | cd <TEMPEST_DIR>/watcher-cloud/etc | 11:34 |
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| tkaczynski | but I'm doing it within virtual env, so the other command should be used? | 11:34 |
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| jed56 | I have to try, it's been a while that I didn't try to run tempest. | 11:37 |
| tkaczynski | jed56: thanks. I'm trying as well in the meantime. will let you know if I manage to do this | 11:38 |
| jed56 | okay | 11:39 |
| tkaczynski | ok, got the etc folder. now I'm editing the tempest.conf file. how do I know which keystone I have (V3 or V2)? | 11:42 |
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| jed56 | tkaczynski: it depends of your deployment of openstack | 11:45 |
| jed56 | you can take a look at keystone endpoints | 11:46 |
| alexchadin | tkaczynski: as I remember there is special field in openrc file which forces to use v3 keystone | 11:50 |
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| tkaczynski | alexchadin: OS_AUTH_URL has this value: cd <TEMPEST_DIR>/watcher-cloud/etc. so I guess I'm on V2? | 11:54 |
| tkaczynski | alexchadin: OS_AUTH_URL has this value: http://192.168.99.11:5000/v2.0 . so I guess I'm on V2? | 11:55 |
| alexchadin | yes | 11:55 |
| alexchadin | for v3 we need | 11:55 |
| alexchadin | OS_IDENTITY_API_VERSION=3 | 11:55 |
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| tkaczynski | ok, thanks | 11:56 |
| alexchadin | I ran watcher tempest about 2 months ago | 11:56 |
| alexchadin | It worked good | 11:56 |
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| tkaczynski | we'll see. for me it's another hurdle to pass | 11:58 |
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| edleafe | jed56: good UGT morning | 12:17 |
| edleafe | (http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html) | 12:17 |
| jed56 | :) | 12:17 |
| jed56 | I'm currently in a meeting | 12:17 |
| edleafe | jed56: ok, I'm just starting my day | 12:19 |
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| edleafe | ping me when you're free | 12:19 |
| jed56 | edleafe: okay thanks a lot | 12:19 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jinquan Ni proposed openstack/watcher: Use disabled/enabled to change service state https://review.openstack.org/330507 | 12:27 |
| openstackgerrit | Jinquan Ni proposed openstack/watcher: Use disabled/enabled to change service state https://review.openstack.org/330507 | 12:31 |
| tkaczynski | jed56 alexchadin: any idea where can I get public_network_id value (in tempest.conf) from? | 12:34 |
| alexchadin | tkaczynski: good question:) | 12:35 |
| alexchadin | tkaczynski: don't you have one? | 12:35 |
| alexchadin | tkaczynski: public_net | 12:35 |
| tkaczynski | you mean, environment value? | 12:36 |
| alexchadin | neutron net | 12:36 |
| tkaczynski | I'm bad with openstack configuration :) I guess there is a neutron command which should list my networks? | 12:37 |
| alexchadin | yeap | 12:39 |
| alexchadin | neutron net-list | 12:39 |
| alexchadin | or you can use openstack network list if you have openstackclient installed | 12:40 |
| tkaczynski | "public endpoint for network service in RegionOne region not found" | 12:42 |
| tkaczynski | openstack client returned only one row: "f14c0655-5a02-47c7-89b9-09b6a14c101e | private | 10.0.0.0/24" | 12:43 |
| alexchadin | hm | 12:44 |
| alexchadin | you can try to use uuid of private net | 12:45 |
| alexchadin | or create public net http://docs.openstack.org/mitaka/networking-guide/scenario-classic-ovs.html | 12:46 |
| alexchadin | you also need to check whether you have public neutron endpoint or not | 12:47 |
| alexchadin | feel free to ask :) | 12:48 |
| tkaczynski | I don't want to mess with my devstack. it took me few weeks to set it up! trying to run tests now, but no success. I suspect that testr doesn't know about the tempest.conf file in watcher-cloud/etc floder | 12:48 |
| tkaczynski | *folder | 12:48 |
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| alexchadin | hm | 12:51 |
| alexchadin | but you use --config parameter, right? | 12:51 |
| tkaczynski | this command: ./run_tempest.sh --config watcher-cloud/etc/tempest.conf -N -- watcher | 12:52 |
| tkaczynski | getting: tempest.exceptions.InvalidConfiguration: Invalid Configuration | 12:52 |
| tkaczynski | Details: Identity v3 API enabled, but no identity.uri_v3 set | 12:52 |
| tkaczynski | but I do have v2 enabled (as in instruction) | 12:53 |
| alexchadin | could you please give me your conf? | 12:54 |
| alexchadin | http://pastebin.com | 12:54 |
| tkaczynski | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/MmTEFGWS/ | 12:55 |
| alexchadin | I don't know why but irccloud isn't working for me | 12:55 |
| alexchadin | I just can't open link | 12:56 |
| tkaczynski | http://pastebin.com/hA932AKn | 12:57 |
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| alexchadin | you need to disable api_v3 | 12:59 |
| alexchadin | option | 12:59 |
| alexchadin | It is in true state currently | 12:59 |
| tkaczynski | which section is this? | 13:02 |
| alexchadin | identity-feature-enabled | 13:02 |
| tkaczynski | something has started, tons of GET queries | 13:05 |
| tkaczynski | alexchadin: thank you for your help, really appreciate it! | 13:06 |
| alexchadin | tkaczynski: you are welcome :) | 13:07 |
| tkaczynski | 30 tests passed, 8 failed. now I'm wondering what my change has to do with these tests :) I don't see any connection... | 13:09 |
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| openstackgerrit | Daniel Pawlik proposed openstack/puppet-watcher: Implement api.pp https://review.openstack.org/329830 | 14:25 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jinquan Ni proposed openstack/watcher: Use disabled/enabled to change service state https://review.openstack.org/330507 | 14:50 |
| jed56 | edleafe: yep | 15:10 |
| edleafe | jed56: so what am I missing? | 15:10 |
| jed56 | so, I think that I was not enough clear about the scope of this nova policies. | 15:10 |
| jed56 | Watcher doesn't want to only pick up a VM and ask nova to find a new placement | 15:11 |
| jed56 | We want to build an Audit which can contains several actions | 15:12 |
| edleafe | Yes, I understand that | 15:13 |
| jed56 | So, how do we develop a strategy capable of find a new placement without knowing the constraints of the system | 15:13 |
| jed56 | s/find/finding | 15:13 |
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| edleafe | It sounds like you want to check any/every potential placement with the nova scheduler before making a choice. Is that correct? | 15:15 |
| jed56 | For example, we have an instance with Affinity constraint | 15:15 |
| jed56 | this is not an idea to try every potential placement because it will consume to much time | 15:16 |
| edleafe | My view is that Watcher cannot possibly know these things, and shouldn't | 15:17 |
| jed56 | However, we could for example use constraint programming or meta-heuristics which can use the constraints as an input | 15:17 |
| edleafe | It should make movement conditions based on the state of the data center and the established Watcher rules | 15:17 |
| jed56 | what do you mean ? | 15:18 |
| edleafe | Once it decides to move, it is up to the Nova scheduler to check/enforce any nova-specific constraints | 15:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Michael Gugino proposed openstack/watcher: WIP: Implement goal_id and watcher_id into Audit api https://review.openstack.org/330165 | 15:18 |
| jed56 | yes, in that you limit watcher as a instance selector | 15:18 |
| edleafe | That's the point of the spec I have to allow Watcher to send multiple potential hosts to a live migrate call | 15:19 |
| edleafe | Nova will then select one that meets its constraints | 15:19 |
| jed56 | yes, watcher will maybe never try propose to move an group of instances with an affinity constraint | 15:20 |
| jed56 | so, the proposed solutions will never be accepted | 15:21 |
| jed56 | by the scheduler | 15:21 |
| jed56 | moreover, we will only be able to propose one action at a time | 15:21 |
| edleafe | jed56: of course. Watcher tries to optimize, but the constraints don't allow optimization | 15:21 |
| edleafe | Why only one at a time? | 15:22 |
| jed56 | example: if I have move this instance from this host to an another i will be able to the move this 5 vms together | 15:23 |
| jed56 | after to this host | 15:23 |
| jed56 | we need a more holistic approach | 15:23 |
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| edleafe | That's an even bigger change to live migration | 15:24 |
| jed56 | moreover with watcher we will able to schedule this actions | 15:24 |
| jed56 | in time | 15:24 |
| edleafe | You will have race conditions if you go through all the pre-checking to make sure that a host is OK, and then some other process builds a big VM on your selected host | 15:25 |
| edleafe | It's much better to use an optimistic design, and plan for the occasional failure | 15:26 |
| jed56 | it's the reason why we need to have alternative paths | 15:26 |
| jed56 | and when the audit stale we have to build a new one | 15:26 |
| edleafe | There are no plans now to expose select_destinations as a public API | 15:28 |
| jed56 | IMHO, we could find a new cluster organization in the watcher strategies the propose the ActionPlan to nova only to check that the audit is still valid we apply it other we create a new one | 15:28 |
| jed56 | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/scheduler-rest-api-select-destinations | 15:29 |
| jed56 | I agree this is maybe not for now but this is something we could maybe help | 15:29 |
| jed56 | the select_destinations will only be used for validate the proposed actions | 15:30 |
| edleafe | that is a long-term goal of the separation of the scheduler from nova | 15:30 |
| edleafe | it is several years off, at the earliest | 15:30 |
| jed56 | I agree, i forked nova to do the modifications | 15:30 |
| edleafe | I don't think that relying on that being implemented is a good strategy for Watcher | 15:31 |
| jed56 | edleafe: i agree we don't want to relies to the select_destinations in the strategies | 15:31 |
| jed56 | we want to retrieve the nova policies | 15:31 |
| jed56 | find a new organization of the cluster | 15:32 |
| jed56 | the in the watcher applier we want to verify that the choice we made are still conform | 15:32 |
| edleafe | What exactly do you mean by "nova policies"? | 15:32 |
| jed56 | by nova policies i mean the scheduler hints or the constraints | 15:32 |
| jed56 | affinity, no affinity, etc | 15:32 |
| jed56 | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/QytQNpKR/ | 15:33 |
| jed56 | We can retrieve these constrains internally like that | 15:33 |
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| edleafe | those are a) just a small subset of the decision making criteria, and b) not a contract that can be relied on | 15:34 |
| edleafe | So at best you might get a small increase in host selection | 15:34 |
| edleafe | At worse you will be just as bad, but running slower | 15:35 |
| jed56 | what are the others criteria ? | 15:35 |
| jed56 | At worse you will be just as bad, but running slower => this is the problem of the strategy | 15:35 |
| jed56 | there is many solution to find a pseudo optimal solution in a short period of time | 15:36 |
| edleafe | There are flavor extra_specs, aggregate/availability zones, PCI device mapping... | 15:36 |
| edleafe | You will be essentially duplicating the scheduler functioning, or relying on an API that won't exist for some time | 15:37 |
| jed56 | and they are not available in the Instancegroup ? | 15:37 |
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| jed56 | edleafe: or relying on an API that won't exist for some time => I agree but if we are proposed better solution : ) | 15:38 |
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| edleafe | I don't think that you can get the host information you need from InstanceGroups. That data is also in a Nova database, and it should not be accessed from outside of Nova. | 15:40 |
| jed56 | edleafe: by default don't give these informations. this is reason why, we should try to propose to modify nova to expose these informations | 15:41 |
| jed56 | I have version which is capable of doing that locally | 15:42 |
| edleafe | jed56: I will guarantee that proposals like that will never be accepted | 15:42 |
| jed56 | this a PoC, which allow to access to these informations through an RestFul Api | 15:42 |
| jed56 | edleafe: why ? :) | 15:43 |
| edleafe | Several reasons | 15:43 |
| jed56 | This is not the idea behind that https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/scheduler-separate-endgoal | 15:43 |
| edleafe | This is internal nova data, and is not guranteed to remain the same | 15:44 |
| edleafe | There are more important things to work on | 15:44 |
| edleafe | And yes, the separate scheduler endgoal is another reason | 15:44 |
| jed56 | I agree that the data structure can evolve | 15:44 |
| edleafe | we have to get the scheduler cleaned up in order to make it stand on its own | 15:45 |
| edleafe | Once that happens, then maybe what you want will be possible. | 15:45 |
| edleafe | But until then, trying to add more stuff will almost certainly be rejected | 15:45 |
| edleafe | I'm not trying to be negative; I'm trying to keep things on the most realistic path forward | 15:46 |
| jed56 | I'm not trying to be negative => don't worry | 15:46 |
| jed56 | Yes I totally agree that is not easy | 15:46 |
| edleafe | If we can get the change to allow specifying multiple hosts in a live migration request, that will be a huge win for Watcher | 15:46 |
| edleafe | And even a change like that, proposed in Mitaka, is disruptive enough that it will be made in Ocata at the earliest | 15:47 |
| jed56 | the multiple hosts blueprint is one step for us | 15:47 |
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| jed56 | So, what do you propose ? do we have to add several plugin in watcher capable of use the internal nova rpc api ? | 15:48 |
| edleafe | no! that would be terrible | 15:49 |
| jed56 | edleafe: I agree | 15:49 |
| edleafe | It would mark Watcher as a rogue project that doesn't respect boundaries | 15:49 |
| edleafe | I suggest going for an optimistic design | 15:50 |
| jed56 | but the problem still existing we will never able to propose good optimization without these informations | 15:50 |
| edleafe | IOW, assume that one of the proposed hosts will pass, and handle the few cases where they don't | 15:50 |
| edleafe | jed56: I don't believe that's true | 15:50 |
| edleafe | In the case where there are lots of affinity rules, well, they are attempting their own optimization | 15:51 |
| edleafe | They won't probably be using Watcher | 15:51 |
| edleafe | Most deployments that would be interested in Watcher will be more cloudy than that | 15:51 |
| jed56 | they will not use watcher because with the current version we are not aware of these affinity | 15:52 |
| jed56 | :) | 15:52 |
| edleafe | IOW, where all hosts are roughly equivalent in suitability for a VM | 15:52 |
| jed56 | what do you mean by more cloudy ? | 15:52 |
| edleafe | No, if they have affinity rules, you can't do very much re-arranging, can you? | 15:52 |
| edleafe | see my next line | 15:53 |
| jed56 | No, if they have affinity rules, you can't do very much re-arranging, can you? => IMHO, we can | 15:53 |
| jed56 | we will maybe violate these constraints but during a short period of time | 15:54 |
| edleafe | Well, you may be right, but that hasn't been my experience | 15:54 |
| jed56 | Do you mean that if you have an affinity constraint this is the responsibility of administrator ? | 15:55 |
| jed56 | IMHO, watched is designed to be an automatic tool | 15:56 |
| edleafe | No, it's the user who requests the affinity | 15:56 |
| edleafe | so those VMs aren't very movable | 15:56 |
| edleafe | Many deployments don't use the affinity filters | 15:56 |
| edleafe | Users get VMs wherever they fit | 15:57 |
| jed56 | you are sure about that ? | 15:57 |
| edleafe | yes | 15:57 |
| edleafe | many use anti-affinity filters | 15:57 |
| edleafe | to keep VMs from the same project/user on different hosts | 15:57 |
| edleafe | I have a meeting in 2 minutes | 15:58 |
| jed56 | the problem stay the same for watcher | 15:58 |
| edleafe | I'd like to continue this on the Watcher meeting | 15:58 |
| jed56 | edleafe: thanks a lot for your time | 15:59 |
| edleafe | except that next week it's the early one and I'll be asleep | 15:59 |
| jed56 | edleafe: i will enjoy to continue the discussion | 15:59 |
| jed56 | have a nice day | 15:59 |
| edleafe | you too! | 15:59 |
| dtardivel | on Telco cloud, with complex applications, I think we use a lot (anti)affinity rules | 16:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Michael Gugino proposed openstack/watcher: WIP: Implement goal_id and watcher_id into Audit api https://review.openstack.org/330165 | 16:13 |
| openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/watcher: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/327393 | 16:15 |
| openstackgerrit | Michael Gugino proposed openstack/watcher: WIP: Implement goal_id and watcher_id into Audit api https://review.openstack.org/330165 | 16:25 |
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| openstackgerrit | Michael Gugino proposed openstack/watcher: WIP: Implement goal_id and watcher_id into Audit api https://review.openstack.org/330165 | 21:19 |
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