Thursday, 2014-09-04

« Wednesday, 2014-09-03 Index Friday, 2014-09-05 »
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peoplemergehorray, last day at my current job00:49
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peoplemergebye all00:51
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flaper87flwang: ping06:43
flaper87flwang: Can I mention that Catalyst is planning to deploy Zaqar in an email?06:43
flaper87flwang: since you mentioned it in the channel, which is public, I'll take that as a sign that it is fine to mention that catalyst will in the future deploy zaqar06:51
flaper87will probably06:51
flaper87*06:51
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vkmchelloooooooooo11:52
* vkmc listens the echo12:07
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echovkmc: WHAT'S UP?12:11
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vkmclol :D12:12
vkmcsuuuuuup echo!12:12
flaper87vkmc: please please please, read my email in openstack-dev and let me know what yuo thing12:12
flaper87think12:12
vkmcflaper87, I was on it :)12:17
vkmcI drop some comments on the etherpad... but those just back up yours12:17
flaper87vkmc: yup, I think I incorporated pretty much everyone's comments12:18
flaper87unless you just added them12:18
flaper87:P12:18
vkmcno those are there :) thx sending it Fla12:20
vkmcso... reading at sdague email right now12:21
vkmcI don't know what is the problem with MongoDB or Redis12:21
vkmcthis is not the main reason of why OpenStack is complex12:22
vkmcOpenStack is complex because the whole idea is complex, not because we use tools to make it complex12:23
* vkmc needs a synonym for complex12:23
vkmcplus, operators don't have to use Zaqar if they don't need it12:26
vkmcit doesn't matter if it's integrated or not12:26
vkmccorrect me if I'm wrong12:26
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flaper87vkmc: exactly13:02
flaper87vkmc: read my reply. Does it make sense?13:02
* vkmc reads13:03
vkmcI'm not replying to the thread because I don't think my background experience in OpenStack or with real deployments help13:04
vkmcbut... truth is, I don't think the reasons they are giving are enough to keep us from graduation13:05
flaper87vkmc: don't under-estimate your opinions. If you've something to say, say it. My advice is to always keep an open mind. Switching hats in discussions like that one is difficult so read several times what you write and make sure you're not going against neither OpenStack's nor Zaqar's  goals13:05
flaper87I like Sean's vision but I don't think that should block Zaqar's graduation. I stated both things in my reply13:06
vkmcgood advice :)13:08
vkmcyeah I sympathize with it too... but I don't think that Zaqar graduation would affect it13:09
flaper87vkmc: +113:10
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vkmchiiiiiiiiiii malini13:24
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malinihelllo vkmc!!!13:25
vkmc:)13:27
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flaper87malini: 'sup girl?13:30
flaper87hope you're doing great13:30
malinigood :)13:36
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kgriffsvkmc: "OpenStack is complex because the whole idea is complex, not because we use tools to make it complex"14:22
kgriffsyou should tweet that.14:22
kgriffs:)14:22
kgriffsvery true14:22
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vkmc:) thought of the day haha14:23
vkmchi kgriffs!14:23
kgriffso/14:23
flaper87kgriffs: gooooooooooooooood morning14:24
flaper87:D14:24
* kgriffs gives flaper87 a bag of gummy bears for reviewing https://review.openstack.org/#/c/118394/14:24
flaper87w00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000t14:25
kgriffsvkmc, malini: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/118394/14:25
kgriffs:D14:25
flaper87admit it, it's just because of the +214:25
kgriffs;)14:25
* kgriffs admits it14:25
* kgriffs hopes nobody notices him bribing reviewers14:25
flaper87while I have you all here14:25
flaper87We need to decide what to do with: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zaqar/+spec/api-v1.1-response-document-changes14:26
flaper87there are 4 items with TODO14:26
flaper87we just heat Feature Freeze which means this can't be completed14:26
flaper87Did we desperately want those changes?14:26
kgriffswill we still be able to do all the tempest tests?14:27
kgriffs(for the features already completed)14:27
flaper87mhh, not during Juno, I think14:28
kgriffsthen we can't really "release" 1.1 regardless of these remaining items14:28
flaper87mmh, why?14:29
kgriffsbecause we need full test coverage first, right?14:29
kgriffsand we don't have that yet14:29
flaper87not really, AFAIK14:29
flaper87I mean, tempest tests are important but that doesn't determine whether you can release a new version of the API or not14:29
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flaper87We still need to update the client, though.14:29
flaper87But once the API is packaged, it's out there.14:30
kgriffsyeah14:30
kgriffshmmm.14:30
malinihow do other projects do it?14:30
kgriffsI'm still fuzzy on exactly what can still land over the next week14:30
kgriffscritical bugs I know14:30
kgriffsno new features14:30
flaper87Nothing that adds new features14:30
flaper87unless it goes through feature freeze exception14:30
flaper87the rest can land14:31
maliniI thought all releases need corresponding tempest tests, but they do have a lag b/w feature landing & the tempest tests14:31
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flaper87there will always be a lag, AFACIT14:31
flaper87:D14:31
maliniyes14:31
flaper87it's like the client. We promissed we'd keep it updated, we did a terrible job14:31
flaper87(we did have lots of other things to take care of, though)14:31
maliniWe so have the functional tests for v1.1 API :)14:32
malinido*14:32
kgriffsflaper87: vkmc was making good progress on it, but then we had to stop the presses to get docs done14:32
vkmcoh yes, I was going to ask about it14:32
kgriffstangent: "Message href's now always include claim_id in the query string if the message is claimed" wasn't someone doing that one?14:32
vkmcis it possible to implement the remaining features for the client v1 for Juno?14:33
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vkmcin the RC period14:33
vkmcor not?14:33
* kgriffs thinks that person was AAzza14:33
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openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/zaqar: Removing test_duration variable from bench/consumer.py  https://review.openstack.org/11750614:34
kgriffsvkmc: should be; the client isn't officially tied to the server release cycle, although we would like to keep it on the same cadence if possible14:34
flaper87we don't need to rush the client14:34
openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/zaqar: Don't pass pipe when filtering messages in the Redis driver  https://review.openstack.org/11889214:34
flaper87if there's not much to do in the server, we can work on it14:34
malinikgriffs: another tangent..let me know if the tsung server is good enough. I will be on vacation next week (yayy) & want to make sure all is good before I leave14:34
flaper87I think I won't have brain for anything else until Wednesday next week. Guess why!14:34
kgriffsmalini: ok, I am hoping to try it today14:35
vkmcall right14:35
kgriffsso, SDK devs were pretty adamant about these two:14:35
kgriffsWhen a collection resource is requested (i.e., queues, messages) and the collection is empty, an empty JSON array is turned in the response body, rather than HTTP 204 No Content: TODO14:35
kgriffsA claim field has been added to messages. It is null if the message is not claimed: TODO14:35
maliniI thought the empty message body with 200 was done14:35
malinididnt sriram do that?14:36
kgriffsthat being said, I suppose we could just ship what we have and do a 1.2 release. However, I don't like to have too many releases because it means more SDK churn14:36
flaper87ok, I guess this is FFE worth it, then14:36
flaper87anyone want to send an email?14:37
flaper87requesting the exception, I mean14:37
flaper87no one wants to send emails in reality. Who wants emails? I don't, no one does.14:37
flaper87OMG, my brain needs to rest and I should drink less coffee14:37
sriramyea 200 with empty list was done.14:38
flaper87kgriffs: malini vkmc lets push everything in v1.114:38
flaper87sriram: mind going through the list here? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zaqar/+spec/api-v1.1-response-document-changes14:38
flaper87Let us know if it doesn't match the reality, I'll update it14:38
sriramflaper87: sure, will do.14:38
flaper87Ceilometer use cases have been added: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zaqar-integrated-projects-use-cases14:40
flaper87ok, I get it. No one wants to send the exception request14:44
vkmcflaper87, I can do that :)14:45
kgriffsif we get the FFE, how long will we have to complete it?14:48
flaper87kgriffs: RC1 scheduled on the 25th, so before that day for sure14:50
kgriffsoh. I was thinking we should probably mention in the email a target of more like one week from today14:51
kgriffsnot mandatory, but we really need to give v1.1 some time for smoke testing and such14:51
kgriffsperhaps work on updating the client and see if that catches any subtle bugs14:52
kgriffs</zwei-pfenig>14:52
flaper87ah yeah, the ideal time is 1w (max 2w)14:52
flaper87Fuck, I jsut realized PyconPL happens the same day Juno is released14:53
kgriffsflaper87: you better go get some more coffee. ;)14:53
flaper87yeah :D14:54
flaper87kgriffs: malini I believe this is done, right? https://bugs.launchpad.net/devstack/+bug/129213614:57
flaper87at least the zaqar part14:57
flaper87actualyl devstack too14:58
maliniyes.its done14:58
kgriffsyep14:58
kgriffsmalini deserves a couple truckloads of pop-tarts there14:58
maliniyumm yummm14:59
vkmcflaper87, should I send the exception request or are you on it?14:59
* kgriffs drops a link. Ooooooops. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/118394/14:59
malinitht was a trap!14:59
flaper87malini: since you fixed the devstack thing, could you assign it to yourself14:59
flaper87so we keep track of it14:59
kgriffsmalini, vkmc, cpallares, sriram: I can tell you all are super bored right now, so would you mind reviewing that patch?14:59
kgriffs;)14:59
flaper87I just need someone to blaim, don't worry15:00
malinisure :D15:00
vkmckgriffs, I'm on it :)15:00
kgriffsone what?15:00
* kgriffs doesn't know what vkmc is talking about15:00
kgriffss/one/on15:00
flaper87BAM! https://launchpad.net/zaqar/+milestone/juno-315:00
flaper879 BPs implemented during J-315:01
flaper87you all ROCK!15:01
kgriffsflaper87: ttx will ask why this is not assigned https://bugs.launchpad.net/zaqar/+bug/128481715:02
* kgriffs plays devil's advocate15:02
flaper87yeah, I was looking at who fixed it15:02
flaper87the review in the bug says you15:02
vkmclol15:02
flaper87I'm not sure I trust that15:02
flaper87anyway, assigned to you15:03
kgriffskk15:03
kgriffsI think vkmc verified that failover worked fine, did you not?15:03
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vkmckgriffs, do you mean this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/zaqar/+bug/136134615:07
vkmckgriffs, I have to try it in Debian/Ubuntu15:07
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kgriffswhat did you already try it on?15:09
kgriffsoh, arch15:09
* kgriffs rembers15:09
vkmcyup :)15:09
kgriffswell, that's cool then. If it doesn't work for people, it's their fault for not using the best distro15:09
kgriffs;)15:09
vkmclol15:10
flaper87are you guys following the m-l thread?15:13
flaper87Am I saying stupid things?15:13
flaper87I feel like a cowboy. Everytime an email pops up, I take off my gun and start shooting like crazy.15:14
vkmcyou are doing great flaper87 :)15:14
maliniis it a war already?15:16
maliniI am trying to stay away from mail15:16
vkmcnah everyone is super polite... for now15:18
maliniI am just reading the thread now15:19
maliniI wish we can have one of the real small operators talk for themselves15:19
flaper87malini: +115:20
flaper87It's all based on good faith , though.15:20
kgriffsgtk. if anyone gets nasty, we can call them on violating the community code of conduct15:21
vkmccan we argue that at this point if Zaqar graduates we can adjust most of the concerns that they have during the next cycle?15:21
kgriffsvkmc: no, the project must be absolutely perfect15:21
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flaper87but that's the point, there's not much we can adjust15:21
flaper87kgriffs: LOL15:21
flaper87Zaqar won't have a control plane API15:21
vkmckgriffs, like... it has to glow?15:21
maliniBut the whole argument against noSQL is flimsy15:21
flaper87I don't think technologies other than NoSQL ar good for the job15:22
vkmc+1 malini15:22
vkmc+1 flaper8715:22
flaper87Redis will mature over the next couple of months15:22
* vkmc grabs the +1 bag15:22
flaper87and well, Zaqar is what it is15:22
flaper87If there are concerns that we can address, we'll definitely do that15:22
flaper87but so far, the concerns are more related to what OpenStack is and not what Zaqar does15:22
maliniits not just for Zaqar, but Openstack can't grow if it limits itself in terms of technologies15:23
flaper87malini: glad you said that too15:23
flaper87I've said it like millions of times in that thread15:23
flaper87:P15:23
* flaper87 is happy that he's not the only one that thinks that way15:23
malinidoesnt flwang work for one of the smaller operators?15:24
flaper87btw, Do you guys want to know what OpenStack developers do during a development cycle?15:24
kgriffsmalini: yes, good point15:24
flaper87They work on very nice FFE emails to send when FF happens. #badumps15:24
kgriffsflwang: is there anything you can say on the thread on behalf of a "small operator"?15:24
flaper87I'm always amazed by the number of FFE emails I see everytime we hit FF15:25
* flaper87 sent one today15:25
flaper87:P15:25
flaper87I mentioned catalyst in the email, I hope flwang doesn't mind and that he can chime in there15:25
kgriffson the other hand, if we didn't have any kind of deadline, Student Syndrome would make us all procrastinate even worse15:25
* kgriffs thinks sys admins are pretty smart and Redis isn't rocket science to admin in any case15:26
* flaper87 procrastinates most of the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux5dRX_9bj015:26
kgriffslol15:26
flaper87yes, I did a talk about procrastination :D15:27
malinikgriffs: +1 ..& operators small or large will have to keep pace with the latest to stay in business15:27
kgriffsflaper87: did you prepare it in advance? ;)15:27
flaper87kgriffs: nope15:27
kgriffsmalini: great point15:27
flaper87kgriffs: I'm serious15:27
kgriffsROFL15:27
flaper87:D15:27
flaper87TBH, I don't think the real concern is about NoSQL (read my reply to Sean's email)15:28
* kgriffs hands malini and vkmc a bag of gummy bears each for helping review my patch15:28
flaper87the concern is more on whether Zaqar belongs to the group of cool kids or not.15:28
flaper87NoSQL just happened to be there15:29
flaper87that's how I read the whole concern15:29
vkmcweeee15:34
flaper87What do you guys think about doing a Bug Triage day next week?15:41
flaper87I'd like to schedule one on Wednesday15:41
vkmcsure thing15:42
kgriffssure15:43
vkmcflaper87, you didn't reply if I should send the exception request or if you are on it15:43
flaper87vkmc: ah yes, please15:43
flaper87I'd like to stick to the official process15:43
flaper87vkmc: Mention there are just few items left and the risk is low15:43
vkmcgreat15:45
vkmcthe FFE request is for15:49
vkmcthe redis driver?15:49
flaper87no15:49
flaper87hahaha15:49
vkmcapi v1.115:49
flaper87https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zaqar/+spec/api-v1.1-response-document-changes15:49
flaper87yeah15:49
flaper87:D15:49
vkmck15:50
vkmcI didn't see any change in the review queue15:50
vkmcfor that15:50
vkmcwhich are our arguments to ask for a FFE for that change?15:50
* vkmc reads the log15:50
flaper87vkmc: those 3 work items that haven't been implemented15:51
flaper87this blueprint is being implemented with a series of small patches15:51
vkmcI read that that kind of exceptions are given for changes that are in review... that is why I'm asking15:51
flaper87We're still incubated so we can blend the rule a bit this time15:51
vkmck15:52
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vkmc> The required changes to close this blueprint are trivial, hence the risk is low.15:57
vkmcI don't want to sound that I'm underestimating it15:58
openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/zaqar: Calculate stats dynamically instead of using side counters  https://review.openstack.org/11839415:59
flaper87well, that's the truth though15:59
flaper87w00000000000t15:59
openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/zaqar: Switch Redis driver modules over to oslo.utils.timeutils  https://review.openstack.org/11841315:59
flaper87we're almost ready to tag j-315:59
flaper87ok, we're ready15:59
flaper87:P15:59
kgriffssweet15:59
flaper87Zaqar's j-3 tag is being cut. Time to kick back and light a cigar16:00
vkmcok, sent16:01
flaper87kgriffs: do you think we can get the benchmarks on Redis this/next week?16:01
flaper87vkmc: thanks16:01
vkmc:) np flaper8716:01
kgriffsflaper87: I was planning to start on that today. I can't promise it will be done before next monday though16:01
kgriffsthis round 2 is going to be more involved16:01
flaper87kgriffs: sounds good. I was hoping to have them by the end of next week. No need to have them for the TC meeting16:02
kgriffsok16:02
kgriffsby the way, I've been keeping this up to date:16:02
kgriffshttps://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zaqar-scratch16:02
kgriffsThe first list of items I think are pretty important to get in before rc116:02
flaper87kgriffs: +116:03
kgriffsThe one I am working on now is blocking round 2 of perf tests16:03
kgriffswill have a patch soon16:03
flaper87ok, I'll pick one that I can help with16:03
kgriffsfinally, we need to look into whether we are stuck with Redis 2.416:04
kgriffsI think we could see a huge performance boost with lua, but that requires 2.616:04
kgriffsand... I don't know if we can get gate on that16:04
kgriffsthat work would be more for kilo timeframe16:05
flaper87kgriffs: I'll check the gate thing. I was working on the devstack patch for redis yday16:05
flaper87I'd like to get a gate job for it16:05
kgriffs+116:06
kgriffsthanks!16:06
kgriffsI think trusty is on 2.8 actually16:07
kgriffsbut my main concern is that if we drop the sqla data driver, we will need something for the non-trusty gates16:07
* kgriffs wonders if those gates are un-trustworthy16:07
flaper87BAM! http://tarballs.openstack.org/zaqar/zaqar-2014.2.b3.tar.gz16:18
flaper87just like that!16:18
kgriffsFAN-TAS-TIC16:18
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vkmcoff to lunch16:27
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openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed a change to openstack/zaqar: Updated from global requirements  https://review.openstack.org/11915117:56
openstackgerritKurt Griffiths proposed a change to openstack/zaqar: In the Redis driver, only read the msg body when needed  https://review.openstack.org/11915317:57
kgriffsbbl (lunch)18:04
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openstackgerritGriffin Ashe proposed a change to openstack/zaqar: Add _ prefix to local variables  https://review.openstack.org/11757418:37
openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/zaqar: Work toward Python 3.4 support and testing  https://review.openstack.org/11881518:40
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malinikgriffs: is ur benchmark zaqar env up?19:42
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kgriffsvkmc: can u review this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/118889/20:52
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vkmckgriffs|afk, sure22:49
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vkmckgriffs, around?23:23
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openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/zaqar: In benchmark observer worker, include claimed messages when listing  https://review.openstack.org/11888923:49
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