Thursday, 2010-10-07

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* alekibango reboots00:58
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alekibangovishy: are u still here?01:37
vishyalekibango: yup01:37
alekibangoit works much nicer now, even got to the launching stage...01:38
alekibangonow i get this in compute screen
alekibangovishy:  this paste includes also commands (test screen)
alekibangoi installed everything from scratch (novascript, branch nova, ...)01:42
vishydid you modprobe kvm?01:42
vishyare you running with qemu or kvm?01:43
alekibangokvm_intel  and kvm is inserted from boot01:43
alekibangowill try qemu now01:43
vishyfirst restart libvirt01:44
alekibangook restarting libvirt, restarting nova01:44
alekibangovishy: how long it should take to get screens when i run nova run ?01:45
alekibango./ run  :)01:45
vishynot long with the new versions01:46
alekibangotakes 30 seconds for me01:47
alekibangoat least01:47
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vishymost of the time is creating db entries01:47
alekibangoiam running ok now01:47
alekibangoso now i go to make the LP trick01:47
alekibangovishy: btw it would rock to have some script which would check health of nova installation -- and try to identify potential reason why it is not ok01:50
vishythere are so many things that can go wrong :(01:50
alekibangoand novices are sometimes completely clueless01:50
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alekibangovishy: if you are here and if you can push it, i requested merge02:24
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vishyk try and get to it02:25
alekibangotommorrow i will push some test update :) to get rid of false alarms02:25
alekibangovishy: np, glad to help02:25
alekibangoi think i should change bug status also -- but to which state?02:28
alekibangoin progress?02:29
alekibangofix committed?02:29
alekibangoso its 'in progress'02:34
alekibangovish: thanks for your tips :)02:34
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vishyaleki: np02:57
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sorenvishy: I may have a patch for libvirt that does the trick.06:10
sorenvishy: I'm testing it right now.06:10
vishysoren: you rock06:10
* soren is just the messenger06:23
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sorenvishy: Alright, so trunk is behaving now. Can't make it hang. Need to go have breakfast with the family and take my daughter to daycare, so it'll be a couple of hours, but I'll try to get this backported to 0.8.3 and see how it fares.06:41
vishyyou're a star06:42
vishyi'm going to bed06:42
vishyif you could get me a package or at least a way to build so i can test in the (west coast) morning, we'll bang away at it06:42
vishyi'm going to sleep now06:43
sorenvishy: If I get it working, I'll push it to both the maverick and lucid ppa.06:43
sorenSleep tight.06:43
vishyjust got iscsi working06:43
vishyaoe was causing kernel panics on reboot06:44
sorenThat's awesome news!06:44
vishyit is also an order of magnitude faster06:44
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sorenI can lively imagine.06:44
vishyi need to clean it up a bit before proposing trunk merge06:44
* soren spent hours and hours trying to tell the Eucalyptus dudes that aoe was a bad idea06:44
anotherjessewe only did aoe at first because our eucalyptus system was aoe based06:45
sorenanotherjesse: Yeah, I know.06:45
anotherjessebut aoe was causing lvm to lock up06:45
anotherjessewhich on reboot would cause kernel panics06:45
sorenanotherjesse: Not trying to suggest you guys make equally bad choices :)06:45
anotherjessewhich in term caused known issues with raid cards06:45
anotherjesseand we lost about 20% of our raid devices this week06:45
* soren has to go to the aforementioned breakfast06:45
sorenanotherjesse: :(06:46
anotherjesseand I'm tired ... so sorry for mis-spellings06:46
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sorenvishy: It works excellently when backported to
sorenvishy: I'm heading out now, will upload fixes when I get back. Should definitely be ready for you when you wake up again.07:11
sorenvishy: I've been firing up and killing VM's non-stop for the last 20 minutes while simultaneously changing filters from 10 concurrent threads.07:12
sorenvishy: No hangs.07:12
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chmouelmorning all08:02
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sorenchmouel: o/08:21
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sorenvishy: New libvirt pushed to the lucid ppa.08:49
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sorenvishy: ...and maverick, too. Enjoy.09:05
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alekibangochmouel: morning! :) can i pvtmsg you?10:49
chmouelalekibango: sure please10:53
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dendrobatesmorning all13:12
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dendrobatessoren: what is the state of nova and swift packages in Mavrick?13:14
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alekibangodendrobates: what do you think about  ?13:36
alekibangomorning :)13:36
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jaypipesdendrobates: mornin.14:07
jaypipesalekibango: heya, quick tip on using bzr... when you commit a changeset, and the changeset fixes a bug on Launchpad, you can tell Launchpad to link the commit to the bug by doing this: bzr commit --fixes=lp:XXXXXX (where XXXXXX is the launchpad bug number)14:08
jaypipesalekibango: just a tip :)14:08
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alekibangojaypipes: didnt i do that? :) but thanks, its all new to me14:39
alekibangojaypipes: yes i did, see it in history :)14:41
alekibango*i see it in my shell history14:42
jaypipesalekibango: ok, cool!  I saw the comment that it fixed the bug...wanted to make sure you knew that little trick :)14:42
alekibango:) ty14:43
alekibangonow i have another problem14:43
alekibangohands up who wants to have nice nova deployment manual,  nova administration manual, nova end user manual14:44
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Ryan_Lanelate entry, but I'd love one :)14:53
alekibangoi know of at least 3 another people... who talked to me before...14:54
alekibangoso i have a question for you14:54
alekibangohow do you imagine that to happen?14:54
Ryan_Lanewell, I'll write documentation14:54
alekibangodo you think anneGentle will write all those manuals? :)14:54
Ryan_Laneif someone helps walk me through how to install14:54
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alekibangoi dont think so14:54
alekibangoRyan_Lane: i can help...14:54
Ryan_Lanegreat. I just made two fresh hosts for this. do I need 3? or is two good?14:55
alekibangotry vishy's novascript (but not with USE_VENV)14:55
alekibangoit works on debian and ubuntu14:55
Ryan_Lanedoes this use the ubuntu packages?14:55
Ryan_Laneideally, I'd prefer not to use a script, and would like to use packages14:55
alekibangoit does if configured, i dont use ubuntu packages for now (iam on debian)14:55
Ryan_LaneI'm going to create a puppet manifest while I'm at it14:55
alekibangoRyan_Lane: that script is for single host - for testing14:55
alekibangoRyan_Lane: i am planning FAI installation14:55
alekibangobut back to documentation --14:56
alekibangoplease, please, help me define areas which are missing  --
alekibangolater we will convert this to wiki pages -- and will create content (or push other people to create it for us)14:57
alekibangoRyan_Lane: FAI is debian fully automated install14:57
Ryan_Laneah ok14:57
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Ryan_Laneyeah, that would be nice14:58
alekibangonew version (after few days) will be able to install also ubuntu servers...14:58
alekibangoRyan_Lane: i am in similar position as you are, i know some parts, most info is missing14:58
Ryan_Lanewill still be nice to have puppet manifests, for those who use puppet instead of this14:59
alekibangoRyan_Lane: well that fai plan is my personal one14:59
alekibangobut might end up documented as well14:59
Ryan_Laneand since wikimedia uses puppet, I'll need to be making a manifest anyway :)14:59
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Ryan_Laneone problem I've been hitting recently is some of the packages required aren't in any repositories15:00
_0x44I thought the puppet/chef guys were supposed to have manifests/recipes done by Austin release?15:00
Ryan_Lanethat would be useful :)15:00
alekibango_0x44: if thats  true, i dont know about it15:00
dendrobatesI think chef has some.15:01
alekibangoso those things should be documented on wiki :)15:01
alekibangochef cant do automated install of hosts, right?15:01
alekibangofai can15:01
dendrobatesRyan_Lane: what distro and what packages?15:01
creihtRyan_Lane: which distro are you using?15:01
Ryan_Laneubuntu 10.0415:01
_0x44dendrobates: I think that's because opscode attended or hosted an openstack hackathon15:01
dendrobatesare you installing from the ppa or source15:01
Ryan_Lanenow I need to find the package missing... it was a python package15:01
alekibangodendrobates, creiht, _0x44: please look there and help us to edit the basic structure15:01
Ryan_Lanethis was a couple weeks ago, so it may be fixed now15:02
alekibangoRyan_Lane: if thats you the pink one, give yourself a name and please help15:02
Ryan_Lanewill do15:02
_0x44alekibango: Looking now15:02
dendrobatesRyan_Lane: the ppa packages are rebuild daily from snapshots so on any given day they could be broken15:02
alekibangothanks... more people will soon help15:02
alekibangothey sleep now15:02
alekibangoor are afk15:02
Ryan_Lanedendrobates: yeah, I know I'm trying things out kind of early :)15:03
alekibangoRyan_Lane: no its not early15:04
dendrobatesalekibango: does annegentle know about this etherpad?  She can help coordinate15:04
alekibangowe need to write those manuals and test them NOW so it will be ready around release15:04
Ryan_Laneyou guys are about to have a stable release, right?15:04
alekibangodendrobates: she told me to go ahead15:04
alekibangoto create wiki15:04
dendrobatesalekibango: awesome15:04
alekibangobut i did this etherpad first15:04
alekibangoso we can talk about it first15:04
dendrobatesRyan_Lane: for some value of stable, yes15:04
Ryan_Lanesooo.... I happen to be a wiki admin, if you guys need help15:05
alekibangoRyan_Lane: no problem imho... we need content15:05
creihtwe should have all of our install instructions on wikipedia :)15:05
Ryan_Laneyou don't want your content constantly deleted do you? :D15:06
alekibangoi dont believe wikipeda a bit :)15:06
dendrobatesRyan_Lane: we always need help.  annegentle is our tech writer.  She can point you to something useful15:06
alekibangowikipedia lost credibility for me when they defined that truth is not important15:07
alekibangoas a rule15:07
Ryan_Lanemeh. it isn't. :)15:07
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alekibangoRyan_Lane: :)15:07
Ryan_Laneverifiability is the rule. if something can't be verified, it also can't be verified to be truthful15:07
alekibangoanyway, nova docs are very important15:07
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alekibangoRyan_Lane: who has the authority to tell the truth?   ruppert murdoch is credible?15:08
Ryan_Laneyeah. hard to install/use without the docs15:08
dendrobatesfyi we are releasing all docs under the same apache 2 license as the code15:08
alekibangowe need docs to exist around release time, or it will be FAIL15:08
alekibango(as in adoption)15:09
alekibangoso please help us any way you can -- if you are not fixing bugs15:09
dendrobatesis anyone using uml to test?15:09
alekibangonot me15:09
dendrobatesI am upgrading a cloud instance to Maverick to test with15:10
alekibangodendrobates: for few people, including me, nova was not useable yesterday15:10
alekibangosee my proposed merge for the bug :)15:11
dendrobatessoren seems to be offline, it seems he can only work a few 20 hour days in a row.  :)15:11
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 656012 in nova "euca-run-instances fails" [Undecided,In progress]15:11
dendrobatesalekibango: I saw it.15:11
dendrobatesI;ve got merge notification built into my ubuntu desktop, so everytime someone puts in a merge request it pops up and tells me.15:12
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alekibangoRyan_Lane: to isntall nova on more servers, you need to use real DB (mysql,postrgresql)15:18
Ryan_Laneah. good to know15:18
Ryan_Laneany docs on that? :)15:19
alekibangowell, none15:19
alekibangobut 1 day ago on irc someone wrote few lines15:19
alekibangoRyan_Lane: some people promised to help with writing, but we need to start by some platform, structure15:22
alekibangoso it will not be lost in the irc logs15:22
alekibangoi will need to make nova running in cluster this week15:23
Ryan_Laneif there is a wiki somewhere, I'll start adding stuff in as I go15:23
alekibangome too15:23
alekibangoRyan_Lane: wiki will be there this evening15:23
alekibangoif you will help me to define the structure, it will be out faster15:23
Ryan_Laneyeah. can do15:24
alekibangofor example, iam clueless about nova administration15:24
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alekibangoi can only say  there is some nova-manage tool15:24
alekibangoand few eucatools (or euca2ools?)15:25
dendrobatesalekibango: the admin tools are a bit light right now, that will change over the next couple of releases.15:25
alekibangodendrobates: there is zero documentation15:26
Ryan_Lanea web tool would be very nice :). I know one is being worked on15:26
Ryan_Laneas of now, it seems you treat it just like ec215:26
alekibangoRyan_Lane: yes... i might do my own free software web frontend15:26
alekibangobut i need to understand nova better first15:26
dendrobatesalekibango: yes, we desperately need people to write docs15:27
alekibangoRyan_Lane: i have never poked ec215:27
Ryan_Laneec2 is.... interesting15:27
alekibangodendrobates: i figured that out :)15:27
alekibangothats why i am here15:27
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alekibangodendrobates: i will use all my social engeneering and technical skills to make it happen15:28
alekibangoyou know why, i am one of those poor guys who desperately need those docs15:29
alekibangobtw what do you guys think about this one --
alekibangoi would love to have similar one written in python - to manage large ammounts of hosts15:31
* dendrobates is going to look for power15:32
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alekibangofaccenda: you asked few days ago if now will store images  in swift... answer is: not for austin release, but very soon after that one15:51
alekibangooh, only yesterday15:51
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adoHi, i am new to openstack and i do not understand how openstack will handle large (>5GB) virtual machine images since swift is only an image store15:56
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alekibangoado: please tell more, what is the problem or unfilled need you have?16:21
alekibangoor what are u afraid of16:22
vishysoren: fix seems to be working16:23
vishysoren: launching is much slower under heavy load, but that is far better than a complete hang16:24
adoalekibango: lets say i want to run a Windows virtual machine with a 100G disk image and i want that diskimage to be redundantly stored on multiple servers and i want to be able to live migrate that server. How will this be done in openstack ? I now it could be done by ceph or sheepdog but which way goes openstack ?16:25
vishysoren: perhaps we can speed up launch time by being careful about only changing the new xml and not regenerating all of them?16:29
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alekibangoado: ceph is still in development (not suitable for storage), gluster is slow, sheepdog support might be added into nova later (someone told me that he plans to add it).16:30
alekibangoother than that i dont feel to be spokeperson for nova as i am new here16:31
dendrobatesso far these are the dependencies that are not getting installed with the ppa packages: python-gflags python-carrot python-sqlalchemy16:32
alekibangoand i didnt play with images much. but i want the same HA features you want16:32
dendrobatesanyone have any others16:32
alekibangoso, ado - im starting to work on deployment and admin docs, i will try to make sure it will be answered soon (before release 21st)16:33
alekibangoi would say it would be best to use swift as live backend for images16:33
alekibangois that somehow possible?16:33
alekibangofor sure it is, but you might need to wait few months16:35
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alekibangoor to use sheepdog -- which is similar in style ,  or ceph, which is afaik also very similar16:36
adoalekibango: I agree, swift is not (yet) the right backend for large vm images. But thanks for all your valuable input16:36
alekibangoado: iam not sure its valuable16:36
alekibangobut its my best16:36
dendrobatesnewlist of missing modules: python-gflags python-carrot python-sqlalchemy python-daemon python-routes python-eventlet python-greenlet python-redis python-tornado16:37
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dendrobatesanyone find any others?16:43
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faccendaalekibango: that's really good news ;)16:46
zuldendrobates: python-greenlet16:51
dendrobateszul: got it16:52
dendrobateszul: we need to rebuild the packages, they are a week old.  They might as well be from last year.16:52
zuldendrobates: yeah i know16:53
dendrobatesthey are completely broken for me in maverick16:53
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zuldendrobates: if soren has newer packages we could probably get a FFE16:55
dendrobateshe already is planning for an SRU, but I agree16:56
dendrobatesI wish soren was around, I have questions before I break his packaging16:57
faccendaalekibango: will it be possible to have a S3 storage interface which uses the swift infra-structure in backend?17:01
faccendaor will it just use the swift with the cloudfiles api directly?17:01
dendrobatesfaccenda: swift does not currently support the s3 api, but we accept patches.  :)17:02
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faccendadendrobates: yeah, i noticed that yesterday... but since Nova seems to offer the s3 api and now looks like it will use the swift backend... i'd like to know how it will be done17:04
vishysoren: avg launch time for ami-tiny with four processes under load with sec groups disabled ~60 seconds, with security groups enabled ~180 seconds, with base group creation commented out ~75 seconds (after making sure they already exist by running the system once).  This leads me to believe that we're hitting heavy locking by regenerating the base groups and we can get a big optimization by either a) creating the base groups once on lau17:05
vishyor b) checking to see if they exist before recreating them.  I'll probably move them into a driver init like we did for creating the bridges in network unless you have a better idea.17:05
alekibangofaccenda: not yet...17:05
alekibangobut aftersome time i am sure hybrid clouds will arise17:05
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faccendaalekibango: for the project i am working on, we are concerned about a distributed, redundant and scalable storage service like S3 or cloudfiles... we don't need any virtualization17:10
faccendai know swift would fit very well17:11
faccendabut seems like the use of the S3 API is mandatory17:11
jonwoodfaccenda: Is that because of a dependency on existing software?17:12
faccendajonwood: yep17:12
jonwoodIs it something you can change yourselves? Generally converting from S3 to Cloud Files isn't a huge job.17:13
faccendajonwood: but i don't know if it is possible to change those software in time17:13
faccendajonwood: we are evaluating that possibility17:13
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creihtfaccenda: the basic rest apis of swift and s3 are pretty similar17:14
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faccendacreiht: i believe17:17
jdarcyfaccenda: FWIW, one of my projects supports both S3 and Swift as data back ends.  They use over 90% common code to do it.17:18
faccendathe problem is: they already use a S3 backend and I think they will keep using it (in parallel to this other backend)... so i think a (1) hybrid like the jdarcy's project, or if is possible to create a (2) interface that translates the S3 calls to cloud files api, or even change (3) swift to offer the s3 interface as an alternative17:21
vishyado: hopefully someone who is working on glance can chime in here, but I think it will larger images by chunking them and putting them in swift.17:21
faccendajdarcy: nice to know.. that information will be added in my evaluation report17:22
vishys/it will larger/it will handle/17:22
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creihtfaccenda: if #3 were to happen, I would be interested in what S3 calls you are interested in making17:22
faccendacreiht: to add it in swift? that would be great17:23
creihtI can't guarrante that will happen anytime soon, but we can start a doc that has the most requested methods17:24
creihtso that if someone were to start, they have a good idea what should be implemented first17:24
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faccendacreiht: nice. that would be really helpful17:26
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kevnfxvishy: regarding "startswith", I'm having the same exception.  Appears that virDomainLookupByName is being passed in a long rather than a string.  Wasn't instance_id recently changed?17:58
vishykevnfx: there is a fix posted, it involves changing nova/db/sqlalchemy/models.py18:00
vishythe name method on instance should return str(self.internal_id)18:00
kevnfxvishy: cool .. thanks!18:00
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dendrobatesI'm trying to rebuild the nova packages in the nova ppa.18:23
alekibangoxtoddx: ping?18:29
vishyalekibango: did you see jaypipes suggestion of making a test case?18:38
vishyseems like a good idea18:38
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alekibangovishy: test case? where?18:39
vishyin response to your merge proposal18:39
alekibangoah, didnt see - i dont use mails much18:39
alekibangowill respond18:39
alekibangojaypipes: i have seen your comments to my str() fix.   and i think that we need to have automated 'functional' tests (as opposed to 'unit' tests) -- that means to run whole system and test it as normal user would do. i promise to try writing the test, but please do the merge asap, as 4 people already were harmed by the bug18:46
alekibangoat least 418:46
jaypipesalekibango: yep, working on it :)18:46
alekibangoand i will have few more i18n fixes18:47
alekibangojaypipes, vishy, some tip to get me started with the test case would be sweet18:48
alekibangoi could just check if its string :)18:49
vishyalekibango: the ultra simple version would be just to make a test that checks that instance_ref['name'] is a string18:50
alekibangook, will try18:50
alekibangowill take me some time, as i have kids here18:50
vishyI'm thinking that a more complex test would be better, but I can't think of one offhand that would work without actually starting libvirt18:50
vishyand trying to run an instance18:51
alekibangowell - as i said, some functional tests would be sweet18:51
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alekibangotest all ways to manage it18:51
alekibangoshould i put it in separate branch or into the one with bugfix18:53
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vishysame one19:08
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Abd4llAalekibango, hi19:45
alekibangohi Abd4llA --
Abd4llAyeah I'm there now, I pinged ya there20:01
Abd4llAI can c u've been busy ;)20:01
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Abd4llAalekibango, you know I'm quite new to nova, so I don't really know the possibilities there,20:09
Abd4llAso I'll be writing things from my own POV20:09
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Abd4llAbased on my previous experience with cloud platforms, the stuff I'd wanna have in an admin manual20:10
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alekibangoAbd4llA: well i dont know a thing about nova administration :) even if i can install it, i am still very noob at administering it20:18
alekibangoand thats why i am trying to make it happen20:19
alekibangois there anyone experienced in nova aministration enough to be able to line up structure of nice NOVA Administration manual ? -- Not deployment/end user stuff, just for admins; cloud operators. we are interested just in headlines at this moment20:21
Abd4llAyeah, well I'm ver noob @ nova as well, but I've good experience in clouds from my previous job, "used to work for Q-Layer, a SUN acquired cloud computing platform provider"20:21
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jaypipessoren: you've got the last word in this please:
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alekibangohi kevnfx, would you please be so kind and write about your way to run more nova servers, so it could be included in the administration or deployment manual?20:53
alekibangokevnfx: i will need to run it in few days too and i would like to get boost by reading such notes...20:54
alekibangoits becoming FAQ in last days20:55
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kevnfxalekibango: certainly, once I figure it out ;-) ... there's seem to be some problems, but I'm not sure if they're because of my environment or because of bugs ... let me get back to you.20:56
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alekibangokevnfx: talk about it, we will do what we can to help20:59
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sorenjaypipes: I' not going to approve it. If someone else feels like it, fine. I think it's a horrible idea, but I don't want to insist.21:14
jaypipessoren: what would you prefer then?21:15
sorenvishy: That sounds fine. I didn't think it would take very long, and while I was fiddling with the base filters, it was really convenient that it would always just apply them.21:15
sorenjaypipes: vishy's patch that makes calls to project_get_network (or whatever it's called) create the network if it doesn't exist.21:16
sorenjaypipes: With that in, it's great. Without it, ewan's patch will mask a very real problem.21:17
jaypipessoren: OK, then.21:17
sorendendrobates: I got a new Nova in Maverick earlier today. I haven't really touched swift since I uploaded it :(21:19
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sorenjaypipes: I said something to similar effect in the bug, fwiw.21:20
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Abd4llAalekibango, I'm back21:22
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spackesthey, how goes the september release of swift?21:24
spackestand the mid-october release of nova?21:25
creihtthat was a typo :)21:25
creihtthey will bosth be realeased in oct21:25
spackestwe are very excited to give them both a shot21:25
spackesthave several machines sitting and waiting for bits21:25
spackestwe're having some networking issues (not related to open stack), but we're trying to get the swift developer release installed21:26
spackestanyone ever look at vmware cloud offereings?21:26
spackestkind of hoping openstack can hang :)21:26
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alekibangoAbd4llA: but i am under siege, users are coming for support :)21:28
Abd4llA:D u r @ work?21:29
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alekibangoAbd4llA: it depends, i have no workhours :)21:53
Abd4llAI C21:53
alekibangoi have also my little linux distro :) and so i help some users when they need21:54
alekibangobtw  - i thought microsoft is evil, but then google came in.   now microsoft wants to scale up to match google again: 'google' this: microsoft government licensing internet access21:58
alekibangothey should close the company forcibly, and give the bill gates his own vaccines - designed to depopulate.22:00
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Abd4llAalekibango, pffff, they're masters of control and domination22:02
alekibangoAbd4llA: imho bill is not a master, he is only a doggie for the real masters22:03
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alekibangoAbd4llA: they need to stop internet 'rumours' so they can continue to work in the dark22:07
alekibango... while they are pushing this to people who disagree with the agenda:
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