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| Abd4llA | alekibango, so next is wait for annegentle ? | 00:49 |
|---|---|---|
| alekibango | Abd4llA: :) i am pretty tired :) | 00:50 |
| alekibango | i would not say wait, there are some other steps in plan | 00:50 |
| Abd4llA | well, I can work on the names | 00:51 |
| Abd4llA | and in the mean time | 00:51 |
| Abd4llA | I'm trying to understand nova more | 00:51 |
| Abd4llA | alekibango, so catch ya tomorrow | 00:54 |
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| alekibango | :) come sooner | 00:55 |
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| Abd4llA | yeah would do that idd, say around 3 pm ? | 00:56 |
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| Abd4llA | c ya | 01:01 |
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| annegentle | hey guys, sorry to be a bottle neck on the outline, looking at it now and you can definitely proceed without my "approval" as I can also come behind on wiki pages and act as editor | 02:14 |
| annegentle | in other words, you guys rock! And I will offer support for all the doc efforts! | 02:14 |
| alekibango | :) | 02:15 |
| annegentle | :) | 02:15 |
| _0x44 | alekibango: Do you ever sleep? ;) | 02:28 |
| creiht | hah | 02:31 |
| alekibango | i do | 02:41 |
| alekibango | last year it was in tuesday | 02:42 |
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| galderz | hi all | 09:30 |
| galderz | a friend of mine, adrian cole, suggested i came to this room and asked a question wrt twisted python library | 09:31 |
| galderz | is anyone available to answer? | 09:31 |
| galderz | i'm writing a python TCP/IP binary client and wondered if using twisted would be a good choice | 09:32 |
| galderz | for our own binary protocol | 09:32 |
| galderz | i have a small prototype using non twisted libraries (i.e. standard socket which prob is synchronous) | 09:32 |
| galderz | but was wondering if using twisted would be a better choice | 09:33 |
| galderz | anyone? | 09:33 |
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| soren | galderz: I would certainly consider Twisted for something like that. | 09:38 |
| * soren likes Twisted a lot | 09:39 | |
| galderz | thx soren, i'll dig further into it then :) | 09:40 |
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| jaypipes | annegentle: do you have access to change this page? http://openstack.org/projects/compute/ | 13:54 |
| dendrobates | jaypipes: no, but we can send changes to todd | 13:56 |
| jaypipes | dendrobates: ah, ok. yeah, we need to remove the references to Tornado and Redis. | 13:57 |
| jaypipes | _cerberus_: any update on this one? https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/649188 | 13:58 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 649188 in nova "RS API is still on Redis" [High,In progress] | 13:58 |
| jaypipes | dendrobates: oh, and good morning :) | 13:58 |
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| jaypipes | alekibango: heya, I offered you a suggestion for testing your fix for bug656012. | 14:24 |
| gundlach | jaypipes: hmm, you're not going to be done with GlanceImageService by Austin correct? | 14:25 |
| jaypipes | alekibango: see your merge request | 14:25 |
| jaypipes | gundlach: Well, it's not technically *me*. :) I've done all I can do up until now. Teller and Parallax don't have the API calls done, so the only thing that works in Nova-Glance is the Faked clients I wrote :) | 14:26 |
| gundlach | jaypipes: well enough :) and your fake clients don't use the RackspaceIdTranslator I assume (which uses Redis) right? | 14:26 |
| jaypipes | gundlach: but I did add unit tests and all the plumbing for Glance. | 14:26 |
| jaypipes | gundlach: no, they do not. | 14:26 |
| jaypipes | gundlach: all glance IDs are strings... | 14:27 |
| jaypipes | gundlach: URIs actually. | 14:27 |
| gundlach | jaypipes: cool. so Redis is only used in Servers, then. I thought cerberus had already merged the branch that excised Redis but I see I'm wrong. | 14:27 |
| alekibango | jaypipes: problem was i was too much into nova documentation and supporting my customers... thanks i will look into it and finish it today | 14:27 |
| gundlach | jaypipes: yes, the fact that glance IDs are strings was why I wrote the idtranslator in the first place (since RS API ids are ints) | 14:27 |
| jaypipes | gundlach: yeah, that's why I pinged him earlier about it...would be super-cool to get that done :) | 14:27 |
| jaypipes | alekibango: no worries, mate! | 14:28 |
| gundlach | jaypipes: yep! i had planned on just code cleanup next week but i'll be sure to lend cerberus whatever help is necessary to get rid of the idtranslator. | 14:28 |
| gundlach | i really do remember reviewing his code that got rid of the translator... hmm lemme go check his open branches. | 14:28 |
| jaypipes | cool :) | 14:28 |
| gundlach | thain't none. so we'll have to ask him when he gets in :) | 14:29 |
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| gundlach | _cerberus_: ^^ | 15:07 |
| _0x44 | jaypipes: The API calls aren't done? sirp1 tested them end to end | 15:11 |
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| sirp1 | _0x44: to be clear, i tested glance end-to-end (parallax -> teller -> swift), not nova -> glance -> swift end-to-end yet | 15:12 |
| _0x44 | sirp1: Ah, I thought you tested with teller -> parallax -> teller -> swift | 15:14 |
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| _0x44 | sirp1, jaypipes What needs to be done in teller/parallax to get the GET API working? | 15:18 |
| _cerberus_ | jaypipes: Gundlach just relayed to me that you had asked me something earlier. I'm looking at it now. Looks like I jumped the gun on my merge. I'll work on cleaning up the remaining id_translator calls | 15:19 |
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| jaypipes | _0x44: GET API is fine. It's the rest that's not done :) | 15:31 |
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| _0x44 | jaypipes: Ah, yes, that's expected :) | 15:31 |
| jaypipes | _0x44: :) | 15:32 |
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| gundlach | jaypipes: erm, the plan for Austin is to use LocalImageService to serve images in Glance's absence, right? | 15:41 |
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| jaypipes | gundlach: I'm assuming your above statement is limited to the Rackspace API? | 15:42 |
| gundlach | jaypipes: yes | 15:42 |
| jaypipes | gundlach: then yes :) it is and will remain the default (see FLAGS.image_server (set to 'nova.image.service.LocalImageService' by default) | 15:42 |
| jaypipes | s/image_server/image_service | 15:43 |
| gundlach | jaypipes: _cerberus_ pointed out that api.rackspace.image.Controller uses RackspaceIDTranslator, at a level above the particular ImageService. | 15:43 |
| gundlach | so i'll need to modify LocalImageService to use int ids, and get rid of the IDTranslator in image.Controller (because the IDTranslator uses Redis.) | 15:44 |
| gundlach | just wanted to make sure you agree with that statement. | 15:44 |
| jaypipes | gundlach: ok, sounds good, yep. | 15:44 |
| gundlach | k | 15:44 |
| * jaypipes lmao. I could have predicted this with one arm tied behind my back. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/10/google-opens-up-can-of-open-source-worms-in-oracle-java-suit.ars | 15:45 | |
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| _0x44 | jaypipes: Even setting aside the mostly laughable copyright claims, there are still the software patent claims that are probably going to hurt the big G in the suit | 15:47 |
| jaypipes | _0x44: Oh, I know. What I'm laughing at is people's surprise that Oracle would pursue this crap. | 15:48 |
| alekibango | i still cant understand why someone would do software for banks using java - which must be deleted on notice from sun | 15:48 |
| alekibango | that sounds ultra stupid for me | 15:49 |
| _0x44 | alekibango: Millions of degree mill java developers | 15:49 |
| alekibango | btw i ditched java when i turned my indy workstation to dust just by using 5 applets in 199x :) | 15:50 |
| jero | alekibango: just because they will ignore the notice | 15:50 |
| alekibango | i left php when it was around 1.x | 15:50 |
| alekibango | luckily i found python | 15:50 |
| alekibango | :) | 15:50 |
| _0x44 | jaypipes: I'm amused by people's sudden realization that Oracle is a bloodthirsty opportunist who only cares about money | 15:51 |
| alekibango | i must say i hate having GIL, but still its pretty lovely language | 15:51 |
| alekibango | and has vibrant community | 15:52 |
| alekibango | _0x44: but there is one nice thing from the sun founders - vi :) | 15:53 |
| alekibango | but as RMS said, VI VI VI is editor of the beast, so who knows | 15:53 |
| alekibango | :D | 15:53 |
| jaypipes | alekibango: because bank software isn't distributed? ;) | 15:54 |
| alekibango | still - sun can one nice morning say -- delete all java copies immediatelly | 15:54 |
| _0x44 | alekibango: I use vim, and I code on a mac. I'm probably "part of the problem" according to RMS | 15:54 |
| jaypipes | alekibango: no, it can't :) | 15:54 |
| alekibango | he said, using vim is not a sin, but penance | 15:54 |
| jaypipes | _0x44: you're part of the problem, but for totally different reasons :P | 15:55 |
| _0x44 | jaypipes: I hate freedom, but only other people's :D | 15:55 |
| jaypipes | lol | 15:55 |
| alekibango | i have met RMS in person -- http://patenty.modry.cz/data/rms_a_ja/david_pravec.jpg :) | 15:55 |
| alekibango | and i must say that meeting changed my perspective | 15:55 |
| _0x44 | alekibango: Did you switch to using BSD? ;) | 15:56 |
| alekibango | he really is a big man ( see www.listenlittleman.com for funny reading and explanation ) | 15:56 |
| alekibango | i still dont like some his habbits, but i must say i admire his will to have integrity | 15:57 |
| alekibango | _0x44: no :) BDS is free only for developers. i think users should be free too | 15:57 |
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| _0x44 | alekibango: I don't want to get into a philosophical argument about licensing, but from my experience what users want is the freedom not to have to treat computers as computers. | 16:01 |
| alekibango | _0x44: do you think you can define what FREEDOM is? | 16:02 |
| alekibango | _0x44: most people really want to get away from pain, have something good to drink and eat and thats it. :/ | 16:03 |
| _0x44 | alekibango: For me, yes. For anyone else, no. Hence the joke about hating other people's freedom. | 16:03 |
| alekibango | oh, it was a joke :) | 16:04 |
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| alekibango | i am trying for years to come up with solid definition of freedom for my personal dictionary | 16:05 |
| alekibango | if you think you can help, please do :) | 16:05 |
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| dendrobates | anyone else seeing this from linux_net.py: Stderr: 'WARNING: Could not open /proc/net/vlan/config. Maybe you need to load the 8021q module, or maybe you are not using PROCFS??\nERROR: trying to set name type for VLAN subsystem, error: Package not installed\n' | 16:17 |
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| zul | on maverick? | 16:21 |
| dendrobates | yes | 16:23 |
| gundlach | jaypipes: care for a light snack? https://code.launchpad.net/~gundlach/nova/image_ids/+merge/37988 | 16:23 |
| zul | dendrobates: interesting havent seen it | 16:23 |
| dendrobates | zul: it is on a cloud instance, with a very stripped down build | 16:25 |
| dendrobates | probably something missing | 16:25 |
| jaypipes | gundlach: mmmm, delicious. | 16:25 |
| zul | do you have vlan installed? | 16:25 |
| gundlach | jaypipes: is that a lgtm? :) | 16:25 |
| jaypipes | gundlach: done :) feel free to set it to Approved. | 16:27 |
| gundlach | jaypipes: thx for the quick turnaround :) | 16:27 |
| jaypipes | gundlach: of course! | 16:28 |
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| gundlach | and with that, i'm out for the day. adios! | 16:28 |
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| dendrobates | jaypipes: soren's head barely fits through a door as it is, without you saying he does excellent work in a code review. | 16:39 |
| dendrobates | he might ask for more money, if he thinks he's good | 16:39 |
| dendrobates | currently he is paid entirely in Dr Pepper, which is very valuable in DK | 16:40 |
| dendrobates | can anyone tell I am a bit giddy, who needs sleep. | 16:40 |
| jaypipes | dendrobates: :) | 16:41 |
| jaypipes | dendrobates: I'll buy stock in Dr. Pepper then ;) | 16:41 |
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| dendrobates | is anyone testing openstack on xen-server or open source xen? | 17:20 |
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| dendrobates | jaypipes: if we give a FFE for glance is it close to being ready? | 17:20 |
| jaypipes | dendrobates: depends on what you mean by "ready". If you mean "read and write API done", then no. | 17:21 |
| jaypipes | dendrobates: If you mean "read API works and a FakeParallaxClient is hooked in and unit tested", then yes. | 17:22 |
| dendrobates | jaypipes: how is it useful the way it is? | 17:22 |
| jaypipes | dendrobates: as for testing on Xen, we need to get mtaylor's help to set up a box and hook it into Tarmac. | 17:22 |
| jaypipes | dendrobates: it isn't particularly useful the way it is. | 17:22 |
| jaypipes | dendrobates: wasn't enough time to get the rest of it done. sorry :( | 17:23 |
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| mtaylor | jaypipes: yes | 17:23 |
| mtaylor | jaypipes: so - today I'm going to figure out how to make tarmac run hudson jobs instead of building directly | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | mtaylor: cool :) | 17:25 |
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| Abd4llA | hi alekibango | 17:38 |
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| dendrobates | do we have the bugbot running? | 17:54 |
| dendrobates | bug 657001 | 17:55 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 657001 in nova "Change all references to Rackspace in the API code to Openstack" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657001 | 17:55 |
| dendrobates | yep | 17:55 |
| alekibango | hi Abd4llA | 17:56 |
| dendrobates | _cerberus_: I created the above bug to get around FF | 17:58 |
| _cerberus_ | dendrobates: thanks man | 17:59 |
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| dendrobates | _cerberus_: thanks again for doing this for me. | 18:00 |
| _cerberus_ | np | 18:00 |
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| uvirtbot | New bug: #657001 in nova "Change all references to Rackspace in the API code to Openstack" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657001 | 18:01 |
| dendrobates | uvirtbot: a little slow | 18:02 |
| uvirtbot | dendrobates: Error: "a" is not a valid command. | 18:02 |
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| rlucio | heh | 18:10 |
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| Abd4llA | so nova currently have an RBAC model? | 18:45 |
| Abd4llA | s/so/so does/ | 18:46 |
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| soren | dendrobates: Launchpad has an 8 minute delay before it sends out e-mail. After that, it can take up to 10 minutes (I think) before the bugbot polls the mailbox and finds the new bug. | 18:53 |
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| soren | dendrobates: The 8 minute delay (should you be wondering) is to collect multiple changes to bugs by the same person into one e-mail. 8 minute without changes to the bug by the same user makes Launchpad assume you're done. | 18:59 |
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| _0x44 | jaypipes: There's already a filesystem backend/ swift object storage backend for teller | 19:05 |
| _0x44 | They're usable too. | 19:05 |
| soren | dendrobates: I've tested nova on Xen. It works. | 19:06 |
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| jaypipes | _0x44: yeah, I know. I have just finished converting the "bugs" to blueprints and establishing the dependency tree... pls ignore emails for now :) | 19:08 |
| _0x44 | jaypipes: Why do they need to be blueprints? I thought there was already a glance/teller/parallax blueprint? | 19:08 |
| jaypipes | _0x44: see here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/teller-api | 19:08 |
| dendrobates | soren: xen server, or the oss one? | 19:08 |
| jaypipes | _0x44: bugs are bugs. blueprints are for features, which is what all of those were. | 19:08 |
| soren | dendrobates: oss | 19:09 |
| jaypipes | _0x44: I can't visualize a dependency tree of bugs. | 19:09 |
| _0x44 | jaypipes: AHA! I see what you did there. | 19:11 |
| jaypipes | _0x44: :) | 19:12 |
| jaypipes | _0x44: I put all your blueprints into Beta Available status since their all committed to trunk (but not yet packaged). Once Glance is a package-able distribution, they'll go to Implemented status. | 19:13 |
| _0x44 | Awesome, thanks jaypipes. | 19:13 |
| _0x44 | I was reading "blueprint" as "needs to be done" | 19:13 |
| jaypipes | _0x44: yeah, no worries :) | 19:13 |
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| zykes- | when's openstack going to release ? | 19:34 |
| jero | oct 21st ? | 19:36 |
| zykes- | k | 19:36 |
| zykes- | that with a full ui etc ? | 19:36 |
| jero | you can get an idea here http://openstack.org/blog/2010/09/the-state-of-openstack-and-whats-next-part-one/ | 19:37 |
| zykes- | so no support then for vmware | 19:39 |
| alekibango | zykes-: wmware is proprietary technology which has its own proprietary cloud system | 19:39 |
| alekibango | openstack is here to reverse that trend | 19:40 |
| openstack | alekibango: Error: "is" is not a valid command. | 19:40 |
| alekibango | openstack: easy | 19:40 |
| openstack | alekibango: Error: "easy" is not a valid command. | 19:40 |
| alekibango | uch | 19:40 |
| alekibango | who owns that bot? :) | 19:41 |
| alekibango | zykes-: kvm,uml,xen,qemu is enough for me... virtualbox is coming too | 19:43 |
| creiht | openstack: list | 19:43 |
| openstack | creiht: Admin, Channel, ChannelLogger, Config, MeetBot, Misc, Owner, Services, and User | 19:43 |
| alekibango | openstack: owner | 19:44 |
| openstack | alekibango: Error: "owner" is not a valid command. | 19:44 |
| alekibango | openstack: list owner | 19:44 |
| openstack | alekibango: announce, defaultcapability, defaultplugin, disable, enable, flush, ircquote, load, log, quit, reload, rename, unload, unrename, and upkeep | 19:44 |
| alekibango | hmm thats not hte right keyword | 19:44 |
| alekibango | he should react only when : is behind his name | 19:45 |
| alekibango | or ignore unknown commands | 19:45 |
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| zykes- | alekibango: what about folks who run vmware then ? | 19:55 |
| alekibango | zykes-: i am not openstack spokeperson | 19:56 |
| alekibango | but for me, its the same as what about guys who drink beer_ | 19:56 |
| alekibango | maybe there is some way to migrate | 19:56 |
| alekibango | but i really ignored vmware all the time | 19:56 |
| alekibango | i like using free software only if thats possible | 19:56 |
| alekibango | zykes-: that is my personal opinion = and my employer (me) doesnt always agree | 19:57 |
| creiht | http://www.virtualizationpractice.com/blog/?p=7717&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rackspace-hijacks-openstack | 19:57 |
| notmyname | dendrobates: I'd love to hear your comments on that article ^^ | 19:58 |
| alekibango | i will give you mine: he has right to write that article. and everyone here has right to fork that code. that is what happens when its going evil. you cant really hijack a free software... | 20:00 |
| alekibango | so let everyone be dictator of his own project please :) | 20:00 |
| notmyname | sure, but you can't argue forking the code every time a dev thinks the governance is "evil" is good for a project | 20:00 |
| alekibango | everyone can create his own country | 20:01 |
| alekibango | notmyname: for me its about what is good to all the stakeholders | 20:01 |
| alekibango | i was criticized the same way from people who never helped me in my own project | 20:02 |
| alekibango | so i can understand | 20:02 |
| alekibango | we might talk about the power balance | 20:02 |
| alekibango | and right, its moving a bit | 20:03 |
| alekibango | but until the code is open, i dont worry much | 20:03 |
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| alekibango | heh until, my penguin english bites :) | 20:03 |
| alekibango | dendrobates: but also i would like to hear response | 20:04 |
| alekibango | imho USERS can control the software whenever they wish = when its free/open software | 20:05 |
| zykes- | i would like to have vmware support as well | 20:06 |
| zykes- | would be awesome | 20:06 |
| creiht | hehe | 20:06 |
| alekibango | well, might be, you are free to contribute | 20:06 |
| creiht | zykes-: patches welcome :) | 20:06 |
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| alekibango | but get also army of lawyers | 20:06 |
| zykes- | creiht: don't know python so | 20:07 |
| zykes- | :p | 20:07 |
| alekibango | to deal with potential problems around proprietary IP | 20:07 |
| alekibango | zykes-: you can learn python tonight | 20:07 |
| alekibango | in 2-8 hours | 20:07 |
| zykes- | alekibango: hmm, ok ? | 20:07 |
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| alekibango | really, its easy language | 20:07 |
| _cerberus_ | zykes-: diveintopython.org :-) Awesome book | 20:07 |
| alekibango | my 7 yo son is able to use it | 20:07 |
| zykes- | pfft | 20:07 |
| Ryan_Lane | zykes-: do you know any programming languages? if so, python should be easy to pick up | 20:08 |
| creiht | zykes-: ask vmware to do it? :) | 20:08 |
| Ryan_Lane | I learned it in a couple days | 20:08 |
| alekibango | well, the core, covered in tutorial, can be done in hours | 20:08 |
| alekibango | most other stuff are external modules | 20:08 |
| alekibango | the core is really easy to learn | 20:09 |
| alekibango | http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide | 20:09 |
| creiht | http://learnpythonthehardway.org/index | 20:10 |
| notmyname | heh. I was just about to paste that | 20:10 |
| alekibango | http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/ - that one is really nice | 20:10 |
| creiht | notmyname: shouldn't you be fixing code? :) | 20:10 |
| creiht | or should be :P | 20:11 |
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| alekibango | my son is using http://inventwithpython.com/ | 20:11 |
| notmyname | creiht: seems that the code I wrote is fine. clayg is the one who sabotaged me! ;-) | 20:11 |
| creiht | hahahaha | 20:11 |
| alekibango | now my 5 yo son is beggin me to help him learn coding | 20:12 |
| creiht | alekibango: hows it going? I've heard good things about that | 20:12 |
| creiht | book | 20:12 |
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| alekibango | yes its nice... but the last version of the book is for python3, which i didnt expect :) | 20:12 |
| alekibango | we finished 4th chapter and he liked it | 20:12 |
| creiht | heh | 20:12 |
| alekibango | they played the 'guess number' game for hour | 20:13 |
| alekibango | he really started with GVRNG | 20:13 |
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| alekibango | he programmed library helping the bot to get out of the maze | 20:13 |
| alekibango | cca 200 lines of code | 20:13 |
| alekibango | really smart guy :) | 20:13 |
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| Abd4llA | Q. When a blueprint gets "released", does it get removed from LP ? | 20:14 |
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| soren | Abd4llA: Blueprints don't get removed. | 20:15 |
| soren | Abd4llA: For purposes of tracking history, really. Just like we don't throw away version control history once we think we're sure a change that's been applied works like it should. | 20:16 |
| zykes- | using git ? | 20:17 |
| soren | No. | 20:17 |
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| soren | bzr. | 20:18 |
| alekibango | zykes-: back to the article -- imagine that some big company will send more developers here and HIJACKS it instead of rackspace and nasa | 20:18 |
| alekibango | i would rather have some good dictator instead | 20:18 |
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| alekibango | and when dictator is ungood -> move to own country | 20:18 |
| Abd4llA | ok that's good, I thought so too. But I'm trying to see old specs of nova. "Projects, roles, different components..etc" and I fail to find blueprints that describe such stuff | 20:18 |
| Abd4llA | they all look pretty recent to me | 20:19 |
| alekibango | Abd4llA is asking because he is trying to figure out how documentation structure might look like | 20:19 |
| notmyname | alekibango: but isn't that one of the points in the article? control comes from contribs | 20:20 |
| alekibango | if is here anyone willing to help with documentation structure for nova, please http://etherpad.openstack.org/NovaDocsNotes | 20:20 |
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| alekibango | notmyname: i agree... but also power comes from it | 20:20 |
| alekibango | and the power can overtake big boards and directors | 20:20 |
| alekibango | and can migrate | 20:21 |
| zykes- | how come other probjects use git fine then alekibango ? | 20:21 |
| alekibango | i would also like git more | 20:21 |
| notmyname | these are fairly complicated bits of code. if there are gobs more devs working on it and features are added that RAX/NASA don't want, so what? | 20:21 |
| alekibango | zykes-: bzr is also distributed | 20:21 |
| notmyname | git would be great | 20:21 |
| Abd4llA | soren: so did u guys create specs somewhere else previously ?? Or was it all in blueprints ? | 20:22 |
| alekibango | yes i got used to git | 20:22 |
| alekibango | Abd4llA: this projects runs just from summer | 20:22 |
| alekibango | blueprints are best you can have | 20:22 |
| alekibango | notmyname: for rejected stuff, look at nova merge requests in notepad | 20:23 |
| soren | Abd4llA: The stuff that NASA did before it turned into OpenStack Compute does not have blueprints. | 20:23 |
| Abd4llA | I C :) | 20:24 |
| alekibango | notmyname: i have never seen so free/open cloud team as here.... | 20:24 |
| alekibango | most clouds are only partially free, if they are released as opensource | 20:24 |
| alekibango | they mostly sell some enterprise version (thats the version for the spaceship) | 20:25 |
| alekibango | its not like this here... and if it will be, i will be one of those who will fork it | 20:25 |
| notmyname | alekibango: I admit I'm pretty ignorant of the nova side of things. I can only speak with perspective from swift. I realize that, since nova is "earlier" in the dev process, things are a little more at risk from going in the wrong direction | 20:25 |
| zykes- | nova is ? | 20:26 |
| alekibango | zykes-: openstack compute | 20:26 |
| creiht | nova is what originated at nasa as their compute cloud | 20:26 |
| creiht | swift is the object storage that originated at RS as cloudfiles | 20:27 |
| alekibango | notmyname: yes, there are risks, but after evaluatinng all other cloud projects, i found out that this project has 1) smart people 2) smart companies behind those people 3) good spirit 4) massively scalable (10^6 hosts) 5) open, nice and extendable code | 20:28 |
| alekibango | this project wins in most, if not all of those things | 20:28 |
| alekibango | i realized i must join the winning team in this :) | 20:29 |
| zykes- | alekibango: where to get the code ? | 20:29 |
| alekibango | zykes-: wiki.openstack.org | 20:30 |
| alekibango | there is all | 20:30 |
| alekibango | there are some features missing, but i feel i do not need worry about those... i will do them myself, or someone other will do | 20:30 |
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| zykes- | has openstack seen any large deployments yet ? | 20:33 |
| soren | zykes-: Swift is running Rackspace Cloud Files. Nova is running NASA's Nebula platform. | 20:34 |
| notmyname | zykes-: rackspace and swift are pretty large | 20:34 |
| notmyname | errr...rackspace and nasa | 20:34 |
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| zykes- | so the code is "prod" ready ? | 20:35 |
| alekibango | swift is production ready | 20:35 |
| alekibango | its used in rackspace | 20:35 |
| alekibango | nova is prerelease now | 20:35 |
| zykes- | so, what's the diff ? | 20:35 |
| zykes- | one controls the hypervisor the other | 20:35 |
| alekibango | zykes-: nova will be released in 2 weeks | 20:35 |
| alekibango | nova runs virtual machines | 20:35 |
| alekibango | swift provides reliable storage | 20:35 |
| zykes- | storage how ? | 20:36 |
| alekibango | in first nova release, swift will not be integrated well yet (prolly) | 20:36 |
| creiht | zykes-: swift is object storage, similar in scope to amazon's S3 | 20:36 |
| alekibango | creiht: btw how similar is swift to CEPH ? | 20:37 |
| zykes- | ceph ? | 20:37 |
| creiht | what is ceph? | 20:37 |
| alekibango | i would love to have ceph in production quality | 20:37 |
| alekibango | http://ceph.newdream.net/ | 20:37 |
| alekibango | there si some rdb | 20:38 |
| jc_smith | ceph is a block device | 20:38 |
| creiht | yeah different goals | 20:38 |
| jc_smith | swift is an api or http thing | 20:38 |
| notmyname | unstructured object storage | 20:38 |
| zykes- | meaning ? | 20:38 |
| alekibango | i didnt found time to understand swift more :) will need to do in next week | 20:38 |
| zykes- | how does work in connection to per say vmware ? | 20:39 |
| notmyname | "Swift is a highly available, distributed, eventually consistent object/blob store" | 20:39 |
| jc_smith | I was writing an NBD server that runs on top of swift, but I'm not sure the concurrency would work for that | 20:39 |
| jc_smith | if you are looking at ceph, check out sheepdog | 20:39 |
| alekibango | jc_smith: does it have url? | 20:40 |
| creiht | Swift isn't a file system | 20:40 |
| notmyname | zykes-: so it's not a block device, but for storing files (objects) | 20:40 |
| alekibango | yes i seen sheepdog | 20:40 |
| alekibango | and i actually wanted to use it before i found nova | 20:40 |
| Abd4llA | Nova relies on libvirt heavily right? | 20:40 |
| notmyname | zykes-: our biggest use cases at rackspace are static content for websites (images, js, css, etc) and backups | 20:40 |
| jc_smith | abd4lla: yes | 20:41 |
| creiht | zykes-: swift is a lot more like a key value store, where the data you are storing are files | 20:41 |
| alekibango | zykes-: so you need VMWARE support in libvirt | 20:41 |
| alekibango | rest is easy | 20:41 |
| jc_smith | though it is abstracted into a "driver" so it may not be hard to replace it | 20:41 |
| jc_smith | thats how the xen support is working I think | 20:41 |
| alekibango | hey it has some http://libvirt.org/drvesx.html | 20:42 |
| Abd4llA | do u know if swift is based on dht ? | 20:42 |
| jc_smith | it would take some refactoring in other areas too, like if you are using esxi, its running busybox linux, so nova-compute wouldn't be running on that | 20:43 |
| creiht | Abd4llA: there are a lot of common concepts | 20:43 |
| notmyname | Abd4llA: no | 20:43 |
| creiht | but it doesn't use a DHT | 20:43 |
| jc_smith | its using consistent hashing | 20:43 |
| notmyname | Abd4llA: but similarities | 20:43 |
| burris | why is swift not a dht? | 20:45 |
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| jc_smith | burris: because you didn't write swift? ;) | 20:45 |
| creiht | burris: there are a lot of commonalities | 20:45 |
| creiht | We focused very specifically at storing files | 20:45 |
| creiht | so everything is optimized around that | 20:46 |
| creiht | a DHT in general is much more generic | 20:46 |
| notmyname | we will gaim more similarities when we push out the large file branch | 20:46 |
| burris | just wondering because it semes to be a dht to me... values are mapped to keys which are placed in buckets dsitributed over machines, and the buckets are chosen with hashing... i.e. its a dht | 20:46 |
| creiht | From a very abstract perspective, it is very much like a DHT | 20:46 |
| burris | it is a dht :-) | 20:46 |
| alekibango | http://cloudscaling.com/blog/cloud-computing/technology/openstack-swift-barn-raising -- lolz nice photo | 20:47 |
| creiht | and you could "abuse" it by using it as a DHT, but it wouldn't work well as a DHT | 20:47 |
| creiht | I guess I hesitate to call it a DHT, becuase its use case isn't the same, as say cassandra | 20:47 |
| alekibango | looks like amish community | 20:47 |
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| jc_smith | us cloudscalers are amish | 20:48 |
| burris | its not the use case that determines if it's a dht... it would be the structure | 20:48 |
| notmyname | and it's not like the DHT used for bittorrent | 20:48 |
| alekibango | really? how do you make electricity? | 20:48 |
| alekibango | :) | 20:48 |
| jc_smith | I'm typing with a wooden keyboard | 20:48 |
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| creiht | hehe | 20:48 |
| creiht | call it what you want, we call it object storage :) | 20:49 |
| alekibango | amish movement started under another name in my country around 14[1-4]0 | 20:49 |
| jc_smith | I call it cool ;) | 20:49 |
| creiht | haha | 20:49 |
| burris | sure it's object storage implemented with a dht | 20:49 |
| jc_smith | what country is that? | 20:49 |
| alekibango | and the man who started it was my fav author -- petr chelcicky :) | 20:49 |
| zykes- | what's object storage used for contra block ? | 20:50 |
| burris | ttfn | 20:50 |
| zykes- | ? | 20:50 |
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| redbo | swift is a dht that handles big objects hopefully better than most, and it also has indexes of the keys, which is sort of unusual | 20:51 |
| alekibango | jc_smith: czech republic, but i am afraid its now all EU here now... | 20:52 |
| jc_smith | I need to renew my french passport so I can take part of this EU stuff ;) | 20:53 |
| Abd4llA | what's the scheduler btw? | 20:53 |
| alekibango | jc_smith: anarchists, commies, pacifists, right wing conservatives --they all consider petr chelcicky to be inspiration, if not founder of theirs ideology. He remains one of those geniuses who are not understood even 600 years later... | 20:53 |
| jc_smith | the scheduler decides what node a vm should be put onto in the context of nova | 20:54 |
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| alekibango | and until this day, for example wikipedia cant even write first line correcly | 20:54 |
| alekibango | (he was not political leader at all) | 20:54 |
| zykes- | what os does rackspace run ? | 20:55 |
| notmyname | zykes-: for swift we use ubuntu | 20:55 |
| alekibango | zykes-: it works on debian too | 20:55 |
| alekibango | and other linuxes | 20:55 |
| zykes- | i meant for hypervisors | 20:55 |
| alekibango | zykes-: it has no h*vizors | 20:55 |
| zykes- | k | 20:56 |
| jc_smith | I'm guessing RS cloud is xen? | 20:56 |
| jc_smith | most public iaas non-vmware based clouds are xen based | 20:57 |
| zykes- | so swift is more storage and nova is controlling typically xen ? | 20:57 |
| redbo | yeah, at least the linux part is xen | 20:57 |
| jc_smith | nova more typically integrated with kvm right now, xen is in the works | 20:57 |
| cachedout | jc_smith is there a particular reason that it's been xen over kvm? | 20:58 |
| zykes- | still don't see the roles of switch and nova . | 20:58 |
| Abd4llA | so far from what I saw, from a user prespective, learning to use nova is a matter of learning to use eucatools ? | 20:58 |
| jc_smith | I think because its been more mature longer, and the drivers for windows guests were more stable earlier | 20:58 |
| jc_smith | abd4lla: when interfacing/consuming nova, yes. But to manage a nova deployment, no | 20:59 |
| jc_smith | nova has flags you pass into various daemons and command line scripts for driving it | 21:00 |
| jc_smith | kvm was too bleeding edge 3+ years ago when most of these clouds were being built, hence xen. I think kvm is very viable now | 21:01 |
| Abd4llA | +1 on kvm | 21:02 |
| jc_smith | redhat is also heavily backing and supporting kvm | 21:02 |
| Abd4llA | I never liked the way xen runs | 21:02 |
| * soren does not like Xen. At all. | 21:02 | |
| * soren <3 kvm | 21:02 | |
| zykes- | RHEV :p | 21:03 |
| dendrobates | now now soren. | 21:03 |
| jc_smith | xen is always behind with getting upstream linux kernel features | 21:03 |
| dendrobates | true. | 21:03 |
| alekibango | redhat people think that xen will pass away soon | 21:03 |
| soren | alekibango: Yeah, they're finally catching on :) | 21:03 |
| jc_smith | but, having worked at a company that had hundreds of xen nodes, I can say it was fairly stable and easy enough to manage. | 21:04 |
| dendrobates | it is still used heavily by rackspace and amazon running almost all the worlds cloud server | 21:04 |
| alekibango | jc_smith: well, on old kernels | 21:04 |
| jc_smith | gogrid is xen too | 21:04 |
| zykes- | isn't xen stable now at 2.6.3x something ? | 21:04 |
| alekibango | kvm is starting to be as good as xen (almost) -- but is easier to run | 21:05 |
| alekibango | zykes-: to be fair, i stopped watching it. kvm is in kernel | 21:05 |
| zykes- | alekibango: and kvm is "natively" supported by redhat / debian / ubuntu | 21:05 |
| alekibango | zykes-: xen is also in debian, supported | 21:05 |
| zykes- | well last time i tried it it was pretty harsh to get up contra kvm . | 21:06 |
| alekibango | well, thats true | 21:06 |
| dendrobates | there are 16 merge requests that need reviewing: https://code.launchpad.net/~hudson-openstack/nova/trunk/+activereviews | 21:06 |
| alekibango | and thats why i stopped worrying about xen and started to love kvm | 21:06 |
| alekibango | :) | 21:06 |
| Abd4llA | I'm facing the following error http://pastebin.com/GC2yzwGg | 21:06 |
| zykes- | though installing kvm takes no more then the time installing the OS itself :) | 21:06 |
| alekibango | dendrobates: ah, right, back to work | 21:06 |
| dendrobates | Any core devs out there that can help? it would be greatly appreciated. | 21:07 |
| alekibango | zykes-: kvm is in 10 seconds for me :) | 21:07 |
| Ryan_Lane | nova-objectstore package is missing a dependency on python-greenlet | 21:08 |
| dendrobates | which package? maverick? | 21:09 |
| Ryan_Lane | lucid | 21:09 |
| creiht | python-eventlet should depend on python-greenlet | 21:09 |
| dendrobates | we can do an SRU for ubuntu, but it might be a while. Final freeze for Maverick is tomorrow, so all the work is focused on that. | 21:10 |
| zykes- | i'll look into python tmrw | 21:10 |
| Ryan_Lane | should I be targeting maverick instead of lucid? | 21:11 |
| Ryan_Lane | lucid is much more appealing for me, since it is LTS | 21:11 |
| soren | Ryan_Lane: No, that an eventlet problem. I've uploaded a fix already. | 21:15 |
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| soren | Ryan_Lane: ...er... To Maveric. Not lucid, yet. | 21:16 |
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| burris | swift is actually three dhts, one ecah for accounts, containers, and objects, plus a proxy server makes an object store | 21:17 |
| creiht | hehe | 21:17 |
| redbo | True, the object portion is a pretty straightforward DHT and the account and containers are sort of a modified DHT. | 21:19 |
| creiht | burris: alright... you caught us... | 21:19 |
| creiht | :) | 21:19 |
| alekibango | nice one | 21:20 |
| alekibango | :) | 21:20 |
| redbo | So there are a lot of architectural similarities to other DHTs. We didn't really blaze a lot of new ground. | 21:23 |
| notmyname | unlike some DHTs (pastry for example), we don't pass messages along to other nodes. the proxy talks directly to the node that will store the data | 21:24 |
| notmyname | but unlike Pastry, we have to manually add and remove nodes from the cluster. there is no automatic node up/down facility | 21:26 |
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| Ryan_Lane | soren: ah ok. it's fine. just thought I'd make sure you guys knew it was an issue :) | 21:30 |
| soren | Ryan_Lane: bug 657047 :) | 21:30 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 657047 in python-eventlet "Missing dependency on python-greenlet" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657047 | 21:30 |
| Ryan_Lane | :) | 21:31 |
| Ryan_Lane | for a production set up of nova. what's the architecture look like? a cloud controller, a volume node, and a bunch of compute nodes? | 21:36 |
| alekibango | http://nova.openstack.org/architecture.html | 21:43 |
| alekibango | Ryan_Lane: ^ | 21:43 |
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| alekibango | Ryan_Lane: http://wiki.openstack.org/ArchitecturalOverview | 21:47 |
| Ryan_Lane | ah. that's much better. :) | 21:47 |
| alekibango | and there was another image i cnat find right now | 21:47 |
| Ryan_Lane | I don't see info about ldap in install instructions anywhere | 21:47 |
| alekibango | its faked by python | 21:48 |
| Ryan_Lane | ah. ok | 21:48 |
| alekibango | but can use real one if you want | 21:48 |
| Ryan_Lane | planning on it :) | 21:48 |
| alekibango | which makes installation harder | 21:48 |
| Ryan_Lane | any idea the schema is it using? | 21:48 |
| alekibango | Ryan_Lane: me too | 21:48 |
| Ryan_Lane | not openldap though | 21:48 |
| * Ryan_Lane hates openldap | 21:48 | |
| alekibango | me too | 21:48 |
| alekibango | lol | 21:48 |
| alekibango | no idea | 21:49 |
| Ryan_Lane | I'm packing opendj for ubuntu as we speak | 21:49 |
| Ryan_Lane | which is a fork of opends | 21:49 |
| Ryan_Lane | I'm ok with the fake user store for now :) | 21:49 |
| Ryan_Lane | I think I'm likely to keep most components with the controller | 21:50 |
| Ryan_Lane | I'll probably separate storage and compute | 21:51 |
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| alekibango | someone help us -- there was a nice image of nova cloud architecture somwhere - and i cant find it... :) | 21:56 |
| alekibango | images of possible cloud designs | 21:56 |
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| dendrobates | I'm out for a bit. Please do code reviews if you have time. We need to get all these branches merged before real testing can start | 22:08 |
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| dendrobates | https://code.launchpad.net/~hudson-openstack/nova/trunk/+activereviews | 22:08 |
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| creiht | all outstanding merge proposals for swift are reviewed and merged | 22:38 |
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| creiht | :) | 22:38 |
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