Thursday, 2010-10-28

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OrmanHey guys.01:24
Ormanannegentle: You online?01:34
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dysingerwoot can't wait for week after next01:40
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Ormandysinger: Yeah although I won't be their.01:43
OrmanDoes anyone know who put in the Troubleshooting stuff in the Etherpad Nova?01:46
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annegentleOrman: me!01:56
annegentleOrman: just put it as a placeholder - when I see Qs on IRC I want to hold them somewhere01:57
OrmanI wanted to thank you.01:58
OrmanI just ran the time slider and saw you as well.01:58
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OrmanDo you know if anyone has filed that bug or is in the middle of patching it?01:59
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OrmanI am going to add more02:00
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annegentleOrman: ok, I don't think it has been filed as a bug, feel free to add more details02:04
OrmanLooks like it's in the ObjectStore and SSL02:06
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OrmanI am thinking of some other possible bugs as well that might result from this.02:07
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Ormanannegentle: Looking into ObjectStore and the handler module.02:10
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Ormanannegentle: Trying to find the file that's has the bug in it.02:23
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alekibangoOrman: see etherpad02:42
OrmanOk I did.02:43
alekibango-> know ourselves and the enemy :)02:44
alekibangothats imperative02:44
alekibangoand prepare the battlefield that we CANNOT be defeated02:44
OrmanYeah that was good from Alekibango.02:44
alekibangoi just like reding old books about power of love and love for power02:45
alekibangolove of power :) lol i should go sleep02:45
OrmanGreat stuff02:46
OrmanWe have to beat them to the holes.02:46
alekibangono we have to make sure we are unbeatable.02:47
alekibangothey will fall into holes themselves02:47
OrmanI LOl02:47
alekibangoOrman: well, thats the lesson from sun tzu02:47
alekibangoand he was *Very* smart02:48
OrmanWe just need to be able to be unbeatable and crush the enemy.02:48
alekibangohe will give us the victory himself.  it is given by his mistake02:49
alekibango(by repeated connecting too much etc...)02:49
Ormanlol yes02:49
alekibangowe need to be sure we did no mistakes...02:50
alekibangowhich is pretty hard, but its the way to go02:50
OrmanYeah,but researching the vulnerabilities and patching them will make harder for them to get in.02:51
OrmanOh wait they won't be able too.02:51
alekibangoOrman: they will be.02:54
alekibangojust some bug in ssh code and we are all ehm, in trouble02:55
alekibangobut really, imho we should identify what is hackable now - and its everything moving on network in plain text :)02:56
alekibangoand what else can malicious atackers do02:56
alekibangobecuase THEY WILL02:57
OrmanStorage is to02:57
OrmanI just wonder how many bugs we don't know about.02:59
alekibangowe need people imagining those threats --> documenting them02:59
alekibangoOrman: try it the other way around. how you would atack private or public nova cloud?03:00
alekibangowe could setup some clouds and make hacking competitions03:00
* creiht would call and ask for the password :)03:00
alekibangothat might actually reveal a lot03:00
alekibangocreiht: good one03:00
alekibangoi would go in with the screwdriver in the serverroom03:00
alekibangotelling them that i am the fumigator03:01
alekibangoor something03:01
alekibangoyou would be surprised how i actualy did this few times03:01
OrmanYeah we just need to expose the holes.03:02
OrmanA lot of them03:02
alekibangoOrman: in first step, we should look where we use unencrypted communication03:03
alekibangoand prepare policies to avoid riscs03:04
OrmanOr features to build in order to prevent them.03:04
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OrmanAuthentication and Crypto.03:07
OrmanUnencrypted is one of our main concerns03:10
OrmanAlekibango: We just need to encrypt more. ;D03:14
creihtencrypt what?03:14
creihtImagines that most security concerns are solved via best practices03:15
OrmanYes that too.03:15
OrmanWe just need to find the vulnerabilities and develop new security solutions to help minimize them.03:16
creihtthen get to it! :)03:17
OrmanI need dev helpers to03:17
OrmanIt's a team effort03:17
alekibangothere should be security session on the sumit03:18
OrmanI wish. ;D03:20
OrmanI wish I could speak and be their.03:21
alekibangotell anne to do it in your stead03:22
OrmanYeah I was thinking about if it was streamed live online. ;D03:23
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OrmanI would to watch it online. ;D03:26
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Ormanalekibango: I would to see it on Ustream.;D03:35
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OrmanIt would be cool if there was section of the summit for security.03:41
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coolhandlukevishy: you there?05:41
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Chat1945ey ey ey06:28
Chat1945whats up06:28
Chat1945any girls wanna chat?06:28
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kckillaany one?06:30
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vishycoolhandluke: i am now07:33
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coolhandlukevishy: hi. we're trying to do a multi node install of nova. (i.e controller and compute nodes are hosted on distinct machines). The KVM's get fired up okay, but they arent visible to the controller (ping, ssh fails). I've tried everything from Flat Network manager, VlanManager , but still cant get a breakthrough. Any pointers/thoughts?09:41
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coolhandlukevishy: so , I was wondering if you'd also encountered this issue while doing a nova install.09:55
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coolhandlukealekibango: u there?13:12
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sorenmtaylor: Yes, we were :)13:37
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pikenmorning all14:48
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uvirtbotNew bug: #667829 in nova "Registering image failing" [Undecided,New]
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notmynamepiken: howdy14:52
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spectorclanQuestion on Design Summit - request for a IRC channel for each technical blueprint discussion; thoughts? I like idea but requires a scribe in all meetings to interact with IRC15:00
annegentleI think they used Etherpad previously?15:05
creihtWhy do we need a separate IRC channel for each blueprint?15:06
creihtYeah I think Etherpad would work better15:06
alekibangocreiht: +1 etherpads15:06
_0x44spectorclan: We use etherpad for that.15:07
annegentledoes anyone have a list of all the Etherpad URLs from the last summit?15:07
* annegentle asks hopefully15:07
_0x44annegentle: They're linked from the wiki.15:07
_0x44Linked from every talk on that page.15:07
annegentleYay thanks!15:08
annegentle_0x44: funny, I have visited that page and never made the connection LOL15:08
_0x44We probably want to have a better naming convention for the topics/discussions on the Bexar page15:09
_0x44(Also, you're welcome :) )15:09
tr3buchetwell look who it is ;p15:09
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alekibangoannegentle: it might be good idea to talk about security on the summit15:09
_0x44/kick tr3buchet Hush sprinkles.15:10
annegentle_0x44: you mean for uniqueness?15:10
* tr3buchet doesn't know who that is..15:10
_0x44annegentle: Yes, the link to the talk about the Releases has been supplanted by the Release schedule15:10
annegentle_0x44: weird, so the last half are all wiki links, not Etherpad links... was that the intent? To switch from Etherpad to wiki?15:11
_0x44annegentle: No, they're linked from those links.15:11
uvirtbotNew bug: #667839 in swift "can't start servers with relative paths to configs" [Low,New]
_0x44 has a link to
annegentle_0x44: Oh I get it, thanks. Clickety click click.15:12
_0x44Wiki should have a semi-static representation of the discussion before the summit and eventually a synthesized decision from the discussion/etherpad.15:12
spectorclanGreat, did we have an assigned scribe to each blueprint meeting? Did we publish the etherpad links ahead of time for people to follow?15:15
_0x44spectorclan: No. That would be stupid.15:16
_0x44spectorclan: The etherpad should be prepopulated with the key-points of the talk, and then is collaboratively updated by the audience.15:16
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spectorclani see; so the people who will run the blueprint session will each create an etherpad15:17
spectorclanhow do we let people who are not in attendance follow along? or can they?15:17
gustavomzwany plans to stream live audio like UDS does?15:17
_0x44I was under the impression that there would be streamed live audio.15:17
spectorclanwe have lots of issues with bandwidth so that may not be possible15:17
spectorclani need to double check with Bret P on that15:18
creihtThey streamed the audio at the last conference15:18
_0x44That seems like poor planning then. The summit was advertised for local and remote attendees.15:18
alekibangoand video ?15:18
spectorclanwe are not using a hotel facility this time but an office building in downtown san antonio15:18
spectorclanwe are adding in all the bandwidth15:18
spectorclanvideo right now is for the business tracks only15:19
alekibangospectorclan: at least please record video and put it somewhere plz :)15:19
_0x44spectorclan: Well, whomever was planning this should have planned for additional bandwidth for streamed audio.15:19
alekibangothere is not enough videos about openstack on the internet15:19
alekibangoi have seen all of them15:19
spectorclanthe issue is lots of costs due to facility; the location was chosen for us this time ; not selected for optimal event location15:19
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alekibangoidea: make rebroadcast from another location15:20
alekibangoso you will need just low bandwidth15:20
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alekibangoand the rebroadcast server might be public15:20
spectorclanok, will work on either getting real time streaming or full video tapes of the session.  let me work thru that now and make sure we have somethign in place. will let you know more details when I have them thanks for your feedback15:20
spectorclanmuch appreciated15:20
_0x44spectorclan: Streamed audio should be a requirement for future summits. If there's not going to be streamed audio, then there probably needs to be someone typing out key spoken points into the etherpad15:21
spectorclanthus, my earlier point. thanks15:21
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_0x44(Which comes back to your scribe comment, they weren't necessary at Austin because we had streamed audio)15:21
spectorclanwe all come full circle15:21
_0x44Doesn't the Westin building have phones?15:21
gustavomzwspectorclan: thanks15:21
_0x44Why doesn't someone just set up a phone bridge and a speakerphone in the technical tracks?15:22
spectorclanthis part of the project is handled by the Rackspace event folks with Bret's help. I am working on getting info now15:22
spectorclan<_0x44> I do like your idea with phone as a last resort15:23
alekibangospectorclan: as software, vlc can be used  for recording and rebroadcast of video and audio15:23
spectorclanyup, i have used that before15:23
alekibangoanother idea - setup mumble server :)15:24
alekibangomake a room where people will be able only to listen15:24
alekibangoand put there audio from the conference15:24
alekibangoone laptop and 50kbps will be enough15:24
alekibangoi can help with that if needed15:24
alekibangomumble is like voice irc15:25
spectorclan<alexkibango> good idea, i will add that to suggestions for team15:25
alekibangohundreds of people can talk at once15:25
alekibangoand you can have moderators etc15:25
alekibangowe might even do global audio conferences with it15:26
spectorclanalexkibango - i sent the idea off to Bret P, Rick C, and the event team at Rackspace15:27
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alekibangowith mumble, its 2 way communication - you can let (some selected) people to ask questions15:30
pikenor for a pretty low price you can rent webex space from oracle hosted on their servers so all you need to do is provide enough bandwidth for audio and video to their servers and they handle the load to all the clients.15:32
_0x44Rackspace isn't really hurting for bandwidth or servers... ;)15:33
alekibangoi can help with mumble if needed, its free software and 1 server can handle thousands of users at once15:33
alekibango...i am operating one for years and i am very happy to have it15:34
alekibangoas i dont like skype spyware etc15:34
alekibangoand this one really works well15:34
alekibango(it was originally done for gamers to chat while shooting)15:35
spectorclan_0x44: I agree, the issue is that the facility had to have some reconstruction to it; new walls, etc which cost a bit more than anticipated. I will wait for Bret and team's response on all your ideas.15:35
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_0x44spectorclan: I was meaning for hosting a voip server like webex, it was a response to piken's idea about contracting with oracle15:36
_0x44spectorclan: Not implying that the Westin building should be rife with available pipe.15:36
spectorclanYes, I do like the idea.15:36
spectorclanUsing Westin building is a challenge for us. Hotels are usually easier to work with as they have all this setup15:37
_0x44I have to run to the Collegio, I'll be back in an hourish if anyone needs me.15:37
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alekibangoi would prefer free software, open protocol, open format solution15:37
alekibangooracle is ehm, not that open15:38
alekibangospectorclan: if you or someone would like to try mumble, install it and msg me15:40
spectorclanalekibango: not open, but Oracle owns lots of Open source ; how can that be?15:40
alekibangowell, they provided some... but they are still trying to be above service sector of the economy15:42
alekibangoand i do not believe such companies15:42
alekibangowhen its possible, i prefer to be not dependent on them in any way15:43
alekibango.. still i am using vim (vi was written by one of sun founders)15:44
spectorclanemacs all the way!!!15:44
tr3buchetmumble is just open source ventrilo/teamspeak if i remember right?15:44
tr3bucheti remember screwing around with that a year or so ago15:45
alekibangoif you do not fail to configure microphone on current linux messy audio middleware, it works like charm15:45
tr3buchetbe better than trying to run vent in wine15:45
alekibangoi even translated it once into my language, but i failed to keep my translation current15:45
alekibangotr3buchet: its free software, unlike vent or teamspeak15:46
tr3buchetyep, although both those are free in small quantities15:46
tr3buchetbut you're right about mumble being >15:46
alekibangowell, thats just enoug honey to make you come to the trap...15:47
tr3buchetglad to know mumble is a good workable solution15:47
alekibangosince i met RMS i have seen the light (lol)15:48
alekibango  :)15:48
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alekibangotr3buchet: i use mumble every week to talk to my people, even to customers...15:51
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tr3buchetalekibango: instaslling now15:52
alekibangoi will afk for hour or 2 now :) will talk to you later ok?15:52
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RamDHi: where can I get RackSpace API info and also about the "Citrix" plugin for Xenserver support?17:09
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vishycoolhandluke: My guess is you need to setup security groups17:10
vishycoolhandluke: euca-authorize -P tcp -p 22 default17:11
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gundlachRamD: You can get Rackspace's current API info from .  Nova's "OpenStack API" is similar to that spec.  I don't know if there is official documentation for the OpenStack API yet, so the source code in nova.api.openstack is perhaps your best bet right now.17:24
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RamDThanks..Also I read that redis is no longer required...Do I need SQLAlchemy to do the basic install?17:31
edayRamD: yup17:32
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uvirtbotNew bug: #667935 in swift "Add etc/swift.conf-sample to base swift package" [Low,New]
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uvirtbotNew bug: #667941 in nova "EC2 API and OpenStack API should live on separate ports" [Undecided,New]
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jaypipesvishy: were you trying to get ahold of me earlier?18:17
vishyyeah had a sqlalchemy thing to discuss18:18
vishybut i got it figured out18:18
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jaypipesvishy: ok :)18:20
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jaypipesvishy, eday, gundlach: ah, coding...
uvirtbotNew bug: #667956 in swift "chunked transfer client disconnect causes unhandled value error in object server" [Low,New]
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edayjaypipes: nice18:24
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DweezahrJust started with OpenStack19:07
dendrobatesDweezahr: welcome19:07
DweezahrI am following the SAIO man19:07
Dweezahrthank you for the welcome19:07
DweezahrI get an 50319:07
Dweezahrswift-auth-add-user -K devauth -a test tester testing19:07
jaypipescreiht: ^^19:08
Dweezahrthe password is devauth yes19:08
DweezahrWill change lateron19:08
* jaypipes assigns creiht to all questions. :)19:08
dendrobatesah, I'll let creiht or one of the other swift guys help you with that.19:08
dendrobatesbut welcome, none the less19:08
DweezahrI like the opensource thing19:08
DweezahrI have read your meetings as well in IRC19:09
DweezahrI think that is a good way to conference19:09
alekibangoDweezahr: mumble might be also great for voice conferencing :)19:09
Dweezahrtrue, that is on my list as well, but not enough time yet19:10
DweezahrI will use VPN for that in the future19:10
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alekibangobtw mumble is secure, no need for vpn19:10
DweezahrI woul like to SMB with the people19:10
creihtDweezahr: howdy19:11
alekibangoDweezahr: openvpn or n2n19:11
Dweezahripsec l2tp19:11
Dweezahrwith raidus19:11
alekibangoi 'love' radius19:11
creihtmost likely the proxy is having issues creating the accounts on the accounts servers19:11
alekibangoDweezahr: think about openvpn. it works well.   n2n is interesting for adhoc vpns19:11
creihtcheck /var/log/syslog (or messages) and see if there are any errors19:12
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DweezahrRunning fedora 1319:12
Dweezahrlikely selinux that is blocking it19:12
vishyjaypipes: spaces are hard, let's go shopping!19:13
alekibangoDweezahr: might be.  see logs to be sure...19:13
creihtDweezahr: also make sure the account servers are running19:14
creihtps -ef | grep account19:14
creihtthere should be 8 processes total19:14
alekibangocreiht: idea: we should write 'drOpenstack' script which will check those things and tell you where might be the problem19:14
DweezahrI see the error19:14
creihtalekibango: yeah I've been thinking about that19:15
Dweezahrattempt to write a readonly database19:15
alekibangocreiht: please start it!19:15
creihtalekibango: it is on an ever growing list :)19:15
alekibangonoobsters will love it19:15
alekibangoi can do it if you will give me those checking mechanisms19:15
alekibangoand it can be used to monitor installations and notify over im19:16
creihtDweezahr: make sure the dirs /srv/[1-4] are owned by your user19:17
jaypipesvishy: :)19:18
Dweezahrcreiht, I have done that, do I have to restart swift?19:18
Dweezahrbecause error is still there19:18
creihtDweezahr: can you paste the entire traceback at
creihtand yeah you might have to19:19
notmynameDweezahr: there is a bug. let me find the link19:19
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 666957 in swift "devauth server creates auth.db with the wrong privileges" [Medium,New]19:19
DweezahrI wil paste it19:19
notmynamedo a chmod on the auth.db. then restart the auth server19:20
Dweezahrnotmyname, that is a good suggestion19:21
creihtahh yes19:22
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DweezahrYes it works now!19:24
DweezahrThis is great, It works so far, I did not expect this for software that was release a week ago19:25
creihtWell swift is based off of what we are currently running at Rackspace as cloudfiles19:25
DweezahrThat is nice19:26
DweezahrWhy IBM is not doing such projects?19:26
alekibangothey have its own, proprietary19:26
creihtyes they have some interesting storage products, but not open source19:27
DweezahrOpen source is what I mean yes19:27
DweezahrSun was going opensource as well19:27
creiht*was* :/19:27
creihtthey had some interesting stuff19:27
Dweezahryeah, oracle is against this19:27
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alekibangoDweezahr: we share the feeling that cloud should not be proprietary thing19:28
DweezahrI agree19:28
DweezahrIf there was no linux and bsd, where osx is based on, windows would still be at the level of xp19:29
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DesiJatDweezahr: i dunno, XP wasn't all that bad. :P19:41
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DweezahrCan anyone give an indicative when the documentation on how to install openstack on an production environment will be ready?20:09
DweezahrOr can I already deploy it, because the documentation is outdated?20:10
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annegentleDweesahr: We're drafting a multiserver installation doc for OpenStack Object Storage at
spectorclan  Update on streaming tech sessions at Design Summit; we are good to go. We have a dedicated hard ethernet connection with plenty of bandwidth in each room; What tools should we use to stream? Need advice20:42
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Dweezahrannegentle, thank you, that is what I was looking for20:45
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annegentleDweesahr: Excellent. The chat in that Etherpad lets you know the areas where it's still a work in progress, like the networking explanations. Feel free to let us know your findings as well.20:46
notmynameannegentle: creiht: I've made a rough draft of a swift overview that could be used as a "what is it?" landing page. a better general overview than the architect notes. can you take a look?
annegentlenotmyname: thanks, I'll take a looksee20:48
alekibangolooks great, notmyname20:48
notmynameit makes me realize how much we need API notes that aren't the RAX-specific ones20:49
alekibangomost foss software projects fail to write good overview on first page :)20:49
annegentlealekibango: agreed, I can't tell you the number of times I've asked, but what do I DO with it? :)20:50
alekibango:)  exactly20:50
alekibangowhat is that project good for20:50
notmynameI started this thinking it would be the first in a series of posts on my blog about swift, but quickly realized that there wasn't anything like it already in the docs20:51
alekibangoluckily most of them have some screenshots20:51
alekibangonotmyname:  swift simply stores bits. -- i would like you to improve this part20:52
notmynameoh, I'm sure there is a bunch to improve20:53
alekibangostill, very good article20:53
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alekibangolooks somehow unfinished, but very good20:53
alekibango(no ending, conclusion, ...)20:53
notmynamewell, ya. it's just a rough draft20:55
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spectorclannotmyname: I will post a etherpad doc that I have with something similar. Perhaps we could merge? hold on while I find it20:56
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spectorclan  This also has some diagrams as well20:58
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alekibangospectorclan: it might be nice to merge those 2 :)20:59
spectorclannotmyname: we also need to be clear with names, swift and nova are for developers but we use Object Storage and Compute to the outside world. At least that is what I see on the web20:59
spectorclanalexbango: yep that is what I thougth20:59
notmynameand this doc would be at swift.openstack.org21:00
alekibangospectorclan: ale[tab] will help21:00
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spectorclanalekibango: ale[tab] ?? sorry don't know21:00
alekibangopressing tab key will in most irc clients fill the name for you21:00
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spectorclanalekibango: ahaha21:01
alekibangospectorclan: :)21:01
alekibangosp[tab] :)21:01
creihtspectorclan: we don't care what you call it, but the project is called swift ;)21:01
spectorclan creiht: not my naming confusion, just following what I see on the website, who should we blame???21:02
creihtWell there are two things... marketing and reality... :)21:02
alekibangomaybe we should abaddon unused names and  keep nova and swift21:02
spectorclanBTW, Update on streaming tech sessions at Design Summit; we are good to go. We have a dedicated hard ethernet connection with plenty of bandwidth in each room; What tools should we use to stream? Need advice21:02
creihtbut mostly I'm just kidding around21:03
spectorclanno problem i get it21:03
alekibangospectorclan: video?21:03
spectorclanalekibango: yup21:03
alekibangoi used vlc in the past21:03
spectorclanalekibango: need tool advice for what we should buy21:03
alekibangodont buy tools, use software :)21:03
alekibangoand generic camera connected to laptop21:03
creihtanyone who is invovled with the project calls it swift, marketing material calls it object store21:04
spectorclani am not sure we have cameras at all21:04
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pvospectorclan: I think there might be some nameing issues of modules and name space if it was openstack::objectstore and openstack::compute21:05
alekibangosoftware is great - generic, can be hacked, generic cameras can be used for different problems21:05
pvoit's get truncated to os::c and os::os21:05
creihtnotmyname: you might want to expand on the CAP thing that we trade consistency mainly on listings, and that the objects are available as soon as they are uploaded21:05
spectorclanpvo: I leave the naming issues to the developers and marketing21:05
redbothat's sort of claiming read-after-write consistency, do we want to do that?21:06
creihtwell we have that for objects right?21:06
creihtat least that seems to be what we have claimed in the past21:07
alekibangoi woud say 'object storage'  is generic name of a tool21:07
alekibangoswift is name of one possible tool to fit that task21:07
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redbochuck: I think we do, but we should think about it a bit.  That specific type of consistency has had a little press lately since amazon started claiming it in some of their regions.21:10
alekibangospectorclan:   you just need a camera which will work with vlc player and thats all :)21:12
spectorclanalekibango: ok, seems easy enough. I spoke with Bret P and told him I would get input from the community, will pass along to him. thanks.21:13
alekibangoi will try to look for specific cameras21:13
alekibangoand spectorclan, you can use mumble for n way communication, having only low bandwidth usage21:13
alekibangomumble is like irc, it has channels (rooms)21:14
alekibangoit allows you to control who can speak etc21:14
alekibangoso you can have moderated audio conferences21:14
spectorclanalekibango:  got it, will add that as well21:14
alekibangoits really great (but needs special client software)21:14
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alekibangospectorclan: if you install it, ping me -- i can test it with you (or more people)21:15
alekibangospectorclan: for vlc streaming, you will also need some server for rebroadcast, but its not hard21:16
alekibangoand i can help with it (i have done some ip tv in the past)21:16
spectorclanalekibango: ok, I let Bret know and he can contact you with questions. Thanks for your advice21:17
alekibangoimage tells 1000 words  -
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spectorclanThanks for everyone's help today on all things Design Summit. Off to get my dog from the groomers - may need a second job to pay for this21:20
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uvirtbotNew bug: #668070 in swift "Adding replicator unit tests" [Undecided,New]
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notmynameannegentle: I got distracted by some other stuff and didn't really finish the overview conversation22:27
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notmynameannegentle: I like spectoclan's intro in (except for the word "leverage". that's just silly)22:30
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