Sunday, 2011-06-19

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lazarus477Are there any screenshots of openstack?04:18
lazarus477Also, does openstack have a web based front end?04:20
lazarus477Was my question to stupid to warrent an answer or are people busy?04:30
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bengruetough server.04:37
lazarus477Well I am looking into things that will help me in my daily virtualisation tasks and the only two good looking alternatives I have found to date are openqrm and openstack. I kno qrm has a web based frontend, question is does stack have one as well, or is it all console based?04:46
notmynamelazarus477: there is a dashboard being developed. it's not "official", but it works with nova, I believe. They're still working on swift support, I believe04:47
* notmyname should have probably used one less "I believe"04:47
lazarus477notmyname: Ok so openstack is for now mainly console based.04:48
lazarus477notmyname: Next question, and it goes to you since you speak, haha.04:48
notmynamewell, it's infrastructure stuff. I could give you a screenshot of my swift dev environment, but you'd just think I was a jerk ;-)04:48
lazarus477notmyname: I have studied up some on openstack and from what I understod it is by default setup or intended to be setup large scale, meaning remote storage and redundant failover servers and all, meaning not suitable for single physical server setups, correct?04:49
notmyname(realize it is a saturday night and getting late in the US. most people are probably doing other stuff or live in the EU)04:49
notmynamelazarus477: I'm not an expert on nova, but, yes, openstack is designed to work very well at scale04:50
lazarus477notmyname: I do not think people are jerks for giving out information, useful or useless to me. I think the A-holes flaming information seekers are jerks :-)04:50
lazarus477notmyname: At scale I know but what about us dealing with only one or at most two physical virtualisation servers, any good for us?04:50
lazarus477notmyname: I am talking small as in say: 1 physical server hosting a dozen VMs backed with LVM based storage.04:51
notmynameagain, I'm not an expert on nova. for swift, if my experience there applies at all to nova, it will work fine at small scale, but some of the key design decisions and complexity is explicitly for large scale stuff. it should work, but perhaps not as efficiently as software designed for a single system (unless you are planning to scale out...)04:52
notmynamethe main advantages to running openstack pieces at small scale are for future expansion or for API compatibility with other people running openstack components04:55
lazarus477notmyname: Yes I am planning to scale out.05:01
notmynamethen depending on your goals, openstack projects may indeed be a good fit for you05:02
lazarus477Currently I use two physical servers but hope to upscale to a few more in the comming year.05:02
lazarus477Well I am not about optemized performance, I am more into practical solutions aimed at helping the admin/me get more work done in less time, hehe.05:03
notmynameI'd have to defer to someone who knows more about nova before getting into any specifics about actually using nova05:04
lazarus477For that I am willing to spit out some extra CPU load and RAM.05:04
lazarus477notmyname: I thought openstack was a sunergy of nova and rackspaces solution.05:05
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notmynamenova is the compute infrastructure piece (from nasa). swift is object storage (from rackspace)05:05
lazarus477Yep the NASA part was one thing which caught my eye early on in my studies.05:08
notmynamethere are many other companies involved now. citrix, dell, cisco, microsoft, and others05:09
lazarus477That also caught my attention.05:10
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lazarus477The whole idea looks very promising to me.05:10
lazarus477Yet I was hoping for a graphical web based frontend of some sort ;-)05:11
notmynamesorry. wrong link05:12
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notmyname11 months ago, to the day. good memories :-)05:16
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lazarus477What is NOVA? Isn't it the NASA contribution to openstack?05:20
lazarus477Well looks like I will have to keep a close eye on openstacks development over the near future.05:23
lazarus477But atm I think openqrm is the propper way to go for my minature hobby farm.05:23
notmynameIf you want more specifc answers to your nova questions than I can provide, you should ask again on monday05:24
notmynamemore people will be online then05:24
lazarus477Well is openstack one entity or is it comprised of several separate systems working in tandem, I mean must I setup openstack and nova and perhaps something more?05:25
lazarus477I was kinda suprised when NOVA popped up in our talk.05:26
notmynameopenstack is a collection of several projects05:26
notmynamecurrently there are 3 openstack projects: swift, glance, and nova05:26
lazarus477What does swift play for part in this?05:26
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lazarus477btw I watched a long seminar held on the topic of openstack.05:27
notmynamenova is for compute (like EC2). swift is for storage (like S3).05:28
notmynameswift is the code that runs Rackspace's Cloud Files product05:28
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lazarus477Well I definetly need to dig deeper into the inner workings of openstack before I shoot myself in the foot with overtime work, hahaha.05:32
lazarus477Not saying it is not for me, just saying I better plan more before adopting it :-)05:33
lazarus477Also I think it needs to mature a bit as well, will cut down on my overhead work.05:33
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notmynameeven if you choose not to use openstack, we'd still value your opinion on requirements. if you don't use it, then we don't have something that meets your needs. unless we know how we don't measure up, we can't improve05:35
lazarus477Well from the technichal aspects I say openstack matches all my needs and beyond. My concern is in practical everyday usability.05:38
lazarus477For me usability and being practical is about cutting down on admin vodoo trickery in getting things done. The more can be managed graphically the better.05:38
lazarus477GUIs provide nice overviews and simplify tasks by offering mouse driver controls.05:39
notmynamerealize that different parts of openstack are at different stages. nova is currently under heavy dev. swift is in production at large scale in many companies05:39
lazarus477And what actually had me worried was that openstack would be pre-adapted for large scale setups and not be uni-machine friendly during setup.05:40
lazarus477Currently I would definatly classify myself with my needs as Little Fish. But my aim is to grow over time and build up my IT infrastructure as business demands it.05:41
lazarus477I run a small IT buziness, diverse in many areas of IT at the lower levels. But I do deal with servers and to solve my daily tasks I do make use of virtual machines. I am also starting to host drupal and webapps such as ZendFramework based php apps.05:42
lazarus477So I am looking into what tools I need to run these things in an efficient way, to save my time for doing dev work and basically earning my keep.05:43
notmynamehonestly, based on what you've said, I don't know if openstack is right for you. it may be. it may not be. that's your call based on your research and your needs. openstack has the goal of running at huge scale. that's our focus, and that means that some choices will be made that may adversely affect smaller deployments05:45
lazarus477I agree.05:46
lazarus477I agree with everything you have said :-)05:46
notmynamewell, it's late and way past my bedtime. I need to go to bed. I hope you find something that works well for you.05:48
lazarus477And like I pointed out. Openstack requires more in depth studies and understanding than I had thought. I think I better read up on its inner workings over a period of a few months and in the mean time go with something smaller.05:48
lazarus477notmyname: Thank you. And yes you did help me.05:48
notmynamegreat. and you're welcome :-)05:48
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kpeppleanyone from stackops in the room ? got a question about your distro ...06:34
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lazarus477kpepple: I heared that most folks will be out for lunch till monday.07:59
lazarus477kpepple: The fellow said there would not be much activity in here this sunday.07:59
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libspeedsup. one question; i see that now openstack compute now supports SAN. does that mean, that there is no need for disks to be in node servers and VMs can be deployed in SAN array?14:26
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ziyadb_libspeed  it appears that we're on the same boat.14:46
ziyadb_let me know what you find out.14:46
libspeed"The test stand consists of three blades (two X5570 and 48G RAM each). All blades are diskless and SAN-backed."14:53
libspeedit appears so...14:53
ziyadb_libspeed looking.14:57
ziyadb_another thing of interest is whether it's possible to use the SAN for swift as well14:57
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JbainI don't see why you couldn't use a SAN for swift, couldn't you just mount an iscsi target at the root of the swift filesystem?15:34
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OutBackDingolibspeed: i kinda question how many cores we in those three blades to support 200 nodes16:23
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JbainOutBackDingo:  X5570's are quad cores with HT16:24
Jbainso 8 cores/16threads per blade by the looks of it16:24
OutBackDingosooooo the system sees 8 cous per blade16:24
OutBackDingoor sees 32 cores since MT16:25
libspeedmulti thread16:26
OutBackDingolibspeed: what im looking for is with this cpu how many "cpus" did linux spin up16:26
OutBackDingoor was it actually 24 cores across the three blade, meaning 3 vms per core16:28
Jbainsounds like 24 real cores across all three16:29
OutBackDingoJbain: im  not sure about that, as a core i5 cpu shows dual core, but linux spins up 4 cpus16:30
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Jbain4 cores, 8 threads. linux would see 8 but there are physically 416:30
Jbain2 cpus per blade, 8 physical cores, 3 blades, 24 cores total16:31
Jbainlinux would see 4816:31
OutBackDingook got it, thats what i thought16:32
OutBackDingoive got a dual blade system here only with 96gb memory per blade, so i was curious if i could get 100 vms on it :) guess i can16:32
OutBackDingoonly with XEN and not KVM16:33
Jbainwell, you can always put that many on there, who knows how well they would perform ;)16:33
OutBackDingoits a test... not a prod box :) LOL id limit vm to core count16:34
OutBackDingoabout 24 vms per blade16:35
JbainI have a 200core esx/esxi cluster running about 950VMs, it runs but a lot of them are really slow :(16:35
OutBackDingowell esxi is a dog16:35
OutBackDingoxen 4.1 is pretty fast16:36
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Jbainonly some of the nodes have been upgraded to 4.1 =\16:36
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Jbaina lot of them are esx 4.016:36
Jbainit's kind of icky16:36
Jbainthe nodes are crappy too16:36
OutBackDingoim about to load a 212 core SGI cloud box also16:37
Jbainwaiting for some new sexiness to arrive that should handle the whole workload with half the nodes16:37
OutBackDingoi think u might get better performance with xen 4.1 as opposed to vmware 4.x16:38
OutBackDingobut  i guess it is what it is :P16:38
Jbainyep, we're just holding off on the upgrade until the new hardware arrives, then everything will be esxi4.116:39
Jbainoh you said xen16:39
OutBackDingolike i said vmware is a dawg16:39
Jbainunfortunately we're big and corporate and have ties to vmware and lots of internal tools already written... so the likelyhood of switching anytime soon is slim to none :(16:40
OutBackDingoJbain: i feel your pain :)16:42
OutBackDingook off to xen-ize my laptop for development while travelling :)16:42
Jbainhave fun :D16:43
OutBackDingoback in a bit16:43
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