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| coli | kiall: have another issue with your scripts. it seems to me it's script related. | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
| coli | kiall: vm starting tries to connect to port 80 on 169.254.169.254 | 00:10 |
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| coli | kiall: iptables using dnat changes destination address to port 8773 on management node (8773 it's nova-api) | 00:11 |
| coli | kiall: however the iptables also use SNAT to change the source address to compute nodes real public ip address | 00:12 |
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| coli | kiall: nova-api on management node receives the request, treats it as received from real public ip address and searches the database for metadata for fixed_ip of real public ip address of compute node instead of vm's fixed ip | 00:13 |
| coli | kiall: shouldn't the iptables only use DNAT to "redirect" to nova-api on compute node and not on managment node ? and avoid SNAT as well ? | 00:15 |
| Kiall | IRC keeps popping over my movie ;) Damn you! | 00:16 |
| coli | I do apologise then and shut myself up :-) | 00:16 |
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| Kiall | Anyway - nova itself sets all those rules up, so either its something missing/wrong in nova.conf, or a bug in nova.. :) | 00:17 |
| * Kiall gets back to his film ;) | 00:17 | |
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| livemoon | morninf | 01:22 |
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| uvirtbot | New bug: #894218 in nova "the instance'ip lease time in DHCPflat mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894218 | 01:35 |
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| livemoon | hi, nova-compute not running since of libvirtd-bin, Has anyone meet this issue? | 01:43 |
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| _rfz | livemoon - the make sure Bios is enabled error? | 01:46 |
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| livemoon | _rfz: I mean nova-compute can running for some time, maybe one days or two days | 01:48 |
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| livemoon | then nova-compute will stop update host status, and it seems nova-compute is not running. | 01:48 |
| livemoon | I need kill nova-compute and restart libvirtd-bin and start nova-compute | 01:49 |
| _rfz | livemoon, I haven't seen that error | 01:49 |
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| livemoon | oh | 01:50 |
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| troya | hi all | 02:21 |
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| coli | kiall: I'm positive that your nova.conf on compute nodes is missing dmz_cidr and ec2_dmz_host has wrong value :-) | 03:34 |
| coli | kiall: will explain tomorrow, going to sleep now :-) | 03:34 |
| troya | hi coli | 03:36 |
| coli | hi and bye ;-0 | 03:36 |
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| troya | bye coli | 03:40 |
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| YSPark | When the VM image is delivered by Glance, Is this image located in Local Server? | 05:37 |
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| YSPark | Is this copied to local server? | 05:37 |
| YSPark | ?? | 05:38 |
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| uvirtbot | New bug: #843066 in keystone "Unable to auth against nova with keystone enabled novaclient ..." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/843066 | 05:55 |
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| uvirtbot | New bug: #843046 in keystone "Revocation of tokens" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/843046 | 07:52 |
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| uvirtbot | New bug: #843064 in keystone "Nova integration docs cite bogus 'ln' command ..." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/843064 | 07:56 |
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| uvirtbot | New bug: #843053 in keystone "Packaging recipes" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/843053 | 07:57 |
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| bush | Hi, I try to use shell script to build complete OpenStack development environments from : http://devstack.org/ It failes when running /opt/stack/nova/bin/nova-manage db sync | 07:58 |
| bush | nova.exception.ClassNotFound: Class Client could not be found: cannot import name deploy | 07:59 |
| bush | Any suggestions/ | 07:59 |
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| uvirtbot | New bug: #843057 in keystone "AdminURL should not be returned on ServiceAPI (dup-of: 854104)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/843057 | 08:12 |
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| lzyeval | ㅠ | 08:26 |
| foexle | hiho | 08:26 |
| lzyeval | bush: did you install all dependencies? http://wiki.openstack.org/InstallFromSourc | 08:28 |
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| Razique | hey foexle | 08:42 |
| Razique | what's up my friend ? :) | 08:43 |
| livemoon | hi, Razique | 08:47 |
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| foexle | Razique: heyho razique :) i'm fine ... verry tired today but ok ;) ... and you ? | 08:48 |
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| koolhead11 | hi all | 08:53 |
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| livemoon | hi, kool | 08:55 |
| foexle | hey koolhead11 & livemoon :) | 08:56 |
| koolhead11 | hi livemoon foexle | 08:56 |
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| livemoon | I have finished my scripts install openstack | 09:04 |
| foexle | great :) | 09:04 |
| koolhead11 | livemoon: cool | 09:05 |
| koolhead11 | livemoon: and does it uses everything from git repo | 09:05 |
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| livemoon | yes, according to devstack scripts | 09:15 |
| koolhead11 | livemoon: so what exactly your script changes, keystone infos for Database | 09:16 |
| koolhead11 | hola uksysadmin | 09:16 |
| foexle | any knows when the next stable version comes out ? | 09:16 |
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| uksysadmin | 'sup koolhead11 | 09:19 |
| Razique | hey uksysadmin koolhead11 livemoon :) | 09:19 |
| koolhead11 | uksysadmin: notthing much | 09:19 |
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| * koolhead11 kicks Razique | 09:19 | |
| koolhead11 | :D | 09:19 |
| Razique | hehe | 09:19 |
| koolhead11 | Razique: was looking for you once i reached hope for the docs update :D | 09:19 |
| uksysadmin | word all | 09:20 |
| Razique | koolhead11: tell me | 09:20 |
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| * Razique slaps ChanServ around a bit with a large bass | 10:05 | |
| alexn6 | Hi! can smbody say - is it ok to for example ssh from running instance back to its public ip? (flatDhcp mode, 2 nics). One can ssh back to its private adrress, and look like all correct with iptables snat, but it still isn`t possible. | 10:06 |
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| foexle | alexn6: hey, i'm sorry i don't understand what you mean :>, do you try to get a ssh login to another instance with the backnet ip's ? | 10:37 |
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| lionel | hello. Is there any documentation/tutorial on using multiple nic in nova? | 10:44 |
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| alexn6 | foexle: I want to ssh from instance back to itself but on public IP (I add IP by euca-assosiate), it`s ok when sshing back on its private address | 10:45 |
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| foexle | alexn6: why do you do that ? °° ssh to localhost ? .... I'm not sure what your use case is .... so i can't give a correctly answer .... but yes you can ssh login to the same instance | 10:51 |
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| alexn6 | foexle: in my case I cannot do so and don`t understand why. We have service that access resources on VM by public IP. | 10:58 |
| foexle | so you cant login via public ip to your vm ? | 11:00 |
| foexle | or only from backnet to public ip? | 11:01 |
| alexn6 | foexle: what exactly I want - nova-network on v.v.v.1, VM on private v.v.v.2 has real IP r.r.r.r. I go to VM by ssh on real or private IP. and then form VM go to it again via real IP(via private it`s ok) | 11:01 |
| foexle | ah yeah .... you need a extra nic in each vm | 11:01 |
| foexle | normally you have a default route on your host server to access public ips | 11:02 |
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| foexle | can you use domains instead of ips? | 11:03 |
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| alexn6 | why them better? | 11:11 |
| alexn6 | possibly not | 11:11 |
| foexle | you can simply use your etc/hosts file | 11:12 |
| alexn6 | for what extra nic? are you sure? | 11:12 |
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| foexle | alexn6: no not sure :) ... this use case havn't heared before :) | 11:13 |
| alexn6 | foexle: can you check on your installation? | 11:15 |
| uvirtbot | New bug: #894333 in nova "Data Loss in VM if the vm is created from snapshot(seen this happening often)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894333 | 11:15 |
| foexle | not possible atm :) .... i move the complete system to production hw .... so i have atm a running cloud | 11:16 |
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| alexn6 | and? you just need some running linux VM in cloud | 11:17 |
| foexle | i dont have 1 | 11:17 |
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| uvirtbot | New bug: #894323 in nova "Nova API exposes hostId to non-admin" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894323 | 11:56 |
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| zykes- | anyone have knowhows on products for frontends for swift? | 12:14 |
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| zykes- | notmyname: here ? | 12:31 |
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| zykes- | anyone here doing stuff with swift ? | 12:43 |
| reidrac | yeep | 12:44 |
| zykes- | what servers are you using ? | 12:44 |
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| reidrac | servers? do you mean hardware? | 12:48 |
| zykes- | correct | 12:48 |
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| reidrac | 4U 2 x Quad Xeon with 24 disks | 12:50 |
| reidrac | that's for each storage node | 12:50 |
| zykes- | what's the price for one of those? | 12:51 |
| reidrac | I don't have that information | 12:51 |
| zykes- | ah, doh ;) | 12:51 |
| zykes- | you know which server model ? | 12:51 |
| reidrac | you can look for "4U 2 x Quad Xeon with 24 disks" in google | 12:52 |
| zykes- | dells ? | 12:52 |
| reidrac | I'm not in ops, I don't deploy the hw :) | 12:53 |
| reidrac | not sure, we work with other providers | 12:53 |
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| jasona | hmm | 12:54 |
| jasona | anyone done a RFQ for openstack supported storage for swift ? | 12:55 |
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| zykes- | rfq ? | 12:55 |
| jasona | request for quote.. also around request for proposal or request for information | 12:55 |
| jasona | i.e, if you wanted to go buy something and wanted to give vendors a list of things they had to do | 12:56 |
| zykes- | i wonder what hardware i would need | 12:56 |
| jasona | there's a few suggestions in the openstack doco but wondering if anyone has gone through this recently. | 12:56 |
| zykes- | firstly for a starter setup | 12:56 |
| zykes- | :p | 12:56 |
| reidrac | zykes-: you can have swift all in one machine | 12:56 |
| zykes- | isn't that a bit risky ? | 12:56 |
| reidrac | it's a test setup | 12:57 |
| reidrac | how many zones do you want to implement? | 12:57 |
| zykes- | firstly 1 i guess | 12:57 |
| zykes- | i mean 1 server | 12:57 |
| zykes- | to see that it works | 12:57 |
| reidrac | then is all in one | 12:57 |
| reidrac | you need at least 3 zones if you want to use 3 replicas | 12:57 |
| zykes- | yeah, that means 3 groups of drives | 12:58 |
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| zykes- | can't be done with 2 zones ? ;p | 12:58 |
| reidrac | you said: zykes-: isn't that a bit risky ? | 12:58 |
| reidrac | :) | 12:58 |
| zykes- | heh | 12:58 |
| reidrac | have you read the docs? | 12:58 |
| zykes- | yeah | 12:59 |
| reidrac | I see | 12:59 |
| guaqua | you can run with 2 replicas, 2 servers | 12:59 |
| hugokuo | zykes , 1 pm , 5 disks | 12:59 |
| guaqua | the problem is, if 1 server dies, it's read-only | 12:59 |
| hugokuo | zykes , two for system using RAID | 12:59 |
| guaqua | so it's basically down then | 12:59 |
| hugokuo | three disks for 3 zones | 12:59 |
| guaqua | the data is intact, but it cannot operate | 12:59 |
| hugokuo | if that's deployment is only for personal using. it would be fine | 13:00 |
| Razique | hey hugokuo | 13:00 |
| zykes- | but say 3*1 tb in 3 zones | 13:00 |
| hugokuo | Razique , bonjour | 13:00 |
| zykes- | then you only have 1 tb of capacity ? | 13:00 |
| Razique | :) | 13:00 |
| hugokuo | zykes , yup | 13:00 |
| livemoon | hi，all | 13:01 |
| Razique | hey zykes- | 13:01 |
| Razique | livemoon: =- | 13:01 |
| Razique | :) | 13:01 |
| zykes- | how much memory does one need for say a server that has 12*2tb drives and 1 quad core ? | 13:01 |
| Razique | zykes-: for which usage ? | 13:02 |
| zykes- | swift | 13:02 |
| Razique | ah ok | 13:02 |
| hugokuo | zykes , for which swift worker ? | 13:02 |
| Razique | wouldn't misguide :) | 13:02 |
| zykes- | isn't a quad core enough then ? | 13:02 |
| zykes- | hugokuo: storage node | 13:03 |
| hugokuo | zykes , who will you use it ? | 13:03 |
| hugokuo | internal using or ? | 13:03 |
| zykes- | hugokuo: web customers and archive system | 13:03 |
| zykes- | but not "heavy" public usage | 13:03 |
| hugokuo | I think it would be enough for a "storage node" | 13:04 |
| zykes- | how much hugokuo memory | 13:04 |
| hugokuo | around 8GB ram …. but I did not test it though | 13:04 |
| hugokuo | on of my deployment of swift with 6 storage node (desktop 4 core 16 G) | 13:06 |
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| hugokuo | the loading of each storage is not that high | 13:06 |
| hugokuo | my memory usage never over 1GB | 13:06 |
| hugokuo | you might interesting about the HW spec of backspace recommendation | 13:07 |
| troya | hi All | 13:07 |
| hugokuo | zykes , http://www.referencearchitecture.org/ | 13:09 |
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| zykes- | hmmm, i wonder on how many hours one could count for a "basic" cluster | 13:26 |
| zykes- | with 3 zones | 13:26 |
| jasona | hmm | 13:30 |
| jasona | so been reading the commentary | 13:30 |
| jasona | and back to original question | 13:30 |
| jasona | anyone had to buy this stuff and written or got access to a rfp/rfq/rfi ? :) | 13:30 |
| jasona | i'm particularly interested in how you asked vendors to supply storage around what nova needs, vs what swift needs. | 13:31 |
| jasona | hmm, quiet. :) | 13:33 |
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| JesperA | Hmm, in http://www.referencearchitecture.org/ it suggests a Dell C2100 as a storage node, why not use a Dell R510/R515 for that? Much cheaper | 13:35 |
| zykes- | i'm looking at a single quad core 16 disk box with 8 gig ram | 13:37 |
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| zykes- | for storage nodes now | 13:37 |
| JesperA | zykes- a supermicro box? | 13:38 |
| reidrac | we're using 16GB in our storage nodes, but it looks like they're using around 4GB | 13:38 |
| zykes- | JesperA: yes | 13:39 |
| zykes- | how come ? | 13:39 |
| zykes- | JesperA: why a R510/515 ? | 13:39 |
| JesperA | zykes- because i am thinking about that too | 13:39 |
| reidrac | it would be really useful knowing some figures :) | 13:39 |
| zykes- | reidrac: that's what i'm investigating | 13:39 |
| zykes- | currently i'm looking at 12-24 disk nodes | 13:39 |
| zykes- | single processes | 13:39 |
| zykes- | processor | 13:39 |
| JesperA | zykes- will you be using a separate proxy server? | 13:41 |
| jasona | thanks jespter. the reference arch is useful | 13:43 |
| zykes- | JesperA: unsure yet | 13:46 |
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| jasona | jesper: the reference arch covers nova and bits of swift | 13:54 |
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| jasona | but i am not quite seeing the nova storage bits exactly. hmm | 13:54 |
| JesperA | In the example it uses a Dell MD3200i, but it all depends how much storage is needed | 13:55 |
| zykes- | for what JesperA swift? | 13:56 |
| JesperA | nope, nova | 13:56 |
| jasona | hmm. | 14:02 |
| cloudgeek | Hi all | 14:04 |
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| foexle | Razique: do you know when the next stable version planed is ? | 14:08 |
| Razique | foexle: yah | 14:08 |
| foexle | jan 2012 ? ;) | 14:09 |
| Razique | April the 5th | 14:09 |
| foexle | oh ok | 14:09 |
| Razique | essex 2012.1 | 14:09 |
| Razique | :) | 14:09 |
| foexle | ah k :> | 14:10 |
| foexle | april ... with the new lts version ^^ | 14:11 |
| zykes- | next stable release no is 2012.3 Razique ? | 14:11 |
| zykes- | 2012.1 is already out | 14:11 |
| zykes- | i thought | 14:11 |
| zykes- | or how is that versioning stuff again | 14:11 |
| foexle | stable = 2011.3 (diablo) | 14:11 |
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| Razique | zykes-: I just checked OpenStack 2012.12012-04-05 not yet released | 14:12 |
| zykes- | ok | 14:12 |
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| livemoon | Razique: have you used essxe-1? | 14:15 |
| Razique | livemoon: not at all, I'm still using diablo stable =d | 14:15 |
| Razique | never tried trunk | 14:15 |
| Razique | what about you livemoon ? | 14:15 |
| livemoon | so do I | 14:15 |
| livemoon | bye | 14:16 |
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| livemoon | I am ready to reader my kindle | 14:16 |
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| zykes- | swift uses JBOD no ? | 14:24 |
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| dubenstein | hi #openstack | 14:26 |
| zykes- | JesperA: what kind of disks are you on ? | 14:26 |
| Glacee | zykes: it is recommended not to use RAID | 14:26 |
| Glacee | for objects/accounts/containers | 14:26 |
| zykes- | Glacee: i know | 14:26 |
| JesperA | zykes- i have not decided, i am also in the planning stage | 14:27 |
| dubenstein | «glance add» is taking too long, bursting machine load to maximum, have someone experienced an issue like that ? | 14:27 |
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| jasona | hmm | 14:28 |
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| jasona | jesper: if you are planning, do you have any docs yet ? | 14:28 |
| jasona | i just finished v0.1 of a procurement spec, really looking to see what other people are specifying also :) | 14:29 |
| Glacee | zykes: yeah.. I just went up the channel to read previous conversation :0 | 14:29 |
| zykes- | hmmmm | 14:29 |
| zykes- | i don't think this can be right | 14:30 |
| JesperA | jasona but you are looking at a Nova cluster, right? | 14:30 |
| Glacee | honestly.. the best bang for bucks right now that I found.. is using 36disks box in 4U | 14:31 |
| jasona | jesper: no, the whole shebang | 14:31 |
| jasona | i need to specify nova compute servers (for lots of VMs), nova storage, swift storage, glance servers and anything else i need | 14:31 |
| zykes- | Glacee: what controllers you doing ? | 14:31 |
| Glacee | 3ware 24ports controllers | 14:32 |
| Glacee | not using expanders | 14:32 |
| zykes- | ah | 14:32 |
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| zykes- | Glacee: i'm doing lsi jbod controllers (8 port) in a 16 slots bo | 14:32 |
| zykes- | box | 14:32 |
| jasona | also separately specifying big data storage to run alongside swift. | 14:32 |
| JesperA | Glacee http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6062/6074472208_aaeafd80bd_b.jpg | 14:32 |
| zykes- | jasona: care to share the spec or confidential? | 14:32 |
| JesperA | jasona ok i think you are further into the planning stage than i am | 14:32 |
| jasona | zykes: willing to share with community down the track but can't share it for a few days. i.e it does have to go to vendors first | 14:33 |
| zykes- | ah | 14:33 |
| Glacee | jespera: yeah backblaze.. thats one thing we consider but | 14:33 |
| jasona | equipment order planned within a few weeks :) | 14:33 |
| Glacee | be careful for CPU/RAM | 14:33 |
| zykes- | i ended up with about | 14:33 |
| zykes- | 10k $ for 16*2tb | 14:33 |
| zykes- | pr storage node | 14:33 |
| jasona | jesper: maybe. i need to buy kit in 2-3 weeks. must have cluster up in next 8 weeks or so. | 14:34 |
| Glacee | at least just put objects on backblaze.. even then | 14:34 |
| Glacee | the CPU by default is propably too low | 14:34 |
| zykes- | Glacee: which one ? | 14:34 |
| Glacee | zykes: ok not bad.. the box we have.. is around 16k for 66*3TB | 14:34 |
| zykes- | 66*3tb ? | 14:34 |
| zykes- | 1 box ? | 14:34 |
| Glacee | sorry 33*3tB | 14:35 |
| jasona | glaceee: you looked at dells stuff or just found better bang/buck via others ? | 14:35 |
| zykes- | only bad thing is that harddrive prices is shitless expensive atm | 14:35 |
| Glacee | others jasonA | 14:35 |
| zykes- | Glacee: you got a spec or ? | 14:35 |
| jasona | also, anyone comments on the 4T 2.5" drives shipping next year ? | 14:35 |
| zykes- | 4T 2.5 ? | 14:35 |
| zykes- | damned | 14:35 |
| Glacee | hmm not handy... but ask if you want something specific | 14:35 |
| Glacee | jasona: they will propably be too expensive | 14:36 |
| Glacee | jasona: are you buying consume grade drves for your backblaze pod? | 14:36 |
| Glacee | consumer* | 14:36 |
| zykes- | Glacee: server model etc | 14:36 |
| zykes- | backblaze ? | 14:36 |
| jasona | glacee: not building backblaze pods but am expecting to use near consumer drives though | 14:36 |
| jasona | i.e either sata, or preferred, NLSAS. | 14:36 |
| Glacee | oh ok.. the picture you sent was backblaze :) jasona | 14:36 |
| JesperA | it was me Glacee | 14:37 |
| jasona | didn't send a pic :) | 14:37 |
| jasona | jesper did! | 14:37 |
| zykes- | what's backblace ? | 14:37 |
| Glacee | ohh ok lol.. jasonA.. Jespera wow | 14:37 |
| zykes- | blaze | 14:37 |
| Glacee | confusing names :) | 14:37 |
| jasona | look at openstoragepod.org or something like that zykes | 14:37 |
| jasona | glacee. zykes. they're like practically identical also! :) | 14:37 |
| JesperA | zykes- http://blog.backblaze.com/2011/07/20/petabytes-on-a-budget-v2-0revealing-more-secrets/ | 14:37 |
| jasona | i would _like_ to have build a BBP as part of this project but well, not really enough money in it | 14:38 |
| zykes- | bbp ? | 14:38 |
| jasona | backblazepod | 14:38 |
| Glacee | the thing with consume drivers.. you need to make sure that you have some anti-vibration mechansiim in place | 14:38 |
| Glacee | or you will have a lot of failures | 14:38 |
| jasona | glacee: you mean.. a whole packet of rubber bands with each drive ?? :) | 14:38 |
| Glacee | entreprise grade drives have anti-vibration features in them | 14:39 |
| Glacee | jasona: yeah :) | 14:39 |
| Glacee | thats one option | 14:39 |
| zykes- | what drives should one use ? | 14:39 |
| zykes- | hitachi ultrastar? | 14:40 |
| jasona | well, in a world where money is no limit | 14:40 |
| Glacee | depends on your use case :0 | 14:40 |
| jasona | all SSD zykes! :) | 14:40 |
| zykes- | but ultrastar is usable ? | 14:40 |
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| Glacee | zykes: why not | 14:41 |
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| Glacee | wer looking to modify backblaze pods.. to get more CPU/RAM and test it with swift | 14:42 |
| Glacee | well see how it goes :0 | 14:42 |
| zykes- | hmm | 14:42 |
| zykes- | funny | 14:42 |
| zykes- | 7746,363636363636$ for 32 tb | 14:42 |
| zykes- | not bad at all | 14:42 |
| JesperA | Glacee well, its really easy to just buy a more powerfull cpu, so modify? | 14:42 |
| Glacee | JesperA the board they use have limitation on the CPU you can use if I can remember | 14:43 |
| Glacee | and its pretty low | 14:43 |
| zykes- | isn't that pretty decent pricing ? | 14:43 |
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| zykes- | i wonder if i can throw in a 24-32 slot chassis | 14:43 |
| Glacee | zykes:its alright | 14:43 |
| zykes- | and make it even more powerful within 15K | 14:44 |
| Glacee | depends of your use case | 14:44 |
| Glacee | do you really need 15k for object storage? | 14:44 |
| zykes- | Glacee: in $ the cost of each storage node | 14:44 |
| Glacee | ohh within 15k $ sorry lol | 14:44 |
| zykes- | i wanna see if i can double the amount of drives with chassis and controllers etc within 15 | 14:45 |
| coli | you would be suprised that 7.2k rpm sata drives are more then often much faster than 15k sas drives | 14:45 |
| JesperA | yeah you are right Glacee the most powerfull cpu on the motherboard they are using is: http://ark.intel.com/products/48501/Intel-Xeon-Processor-X3480-(8M-Cache-3_06-GHz) | 14:46 |
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| JesperA | Well, i am not sure about port multipliers, cant squeeze out to much speed from those i guess | 14:50 |
| Glacee | depends on your use case.. backblaze pods.. usually get filled for backups and then they do nothing | 14:50 |
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| JesperA | yeah, fits perfect for them, but i have more reads than writes | 14:51 |
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| zykes- | http://pastebin.com/N8NWus8h | 14:52 |
| zykes- | that's what i'm at atm | 14:52 |
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| zykes- | but damned | 14:54 |
| zykes- | i wasn't clear of that my motherboard had 14 connectors | 14:54 |
| zykes- | means i can scale down on that solution to 1*4 port extra | 14:54 |
| JesperA | what currency is that? | 14:54 |
| zykes- | NOK | 14:54 |
| zykes- | divide it by 5.5 for $ | 14:54 |
| Glacee | seems like a crazy currency.. 9000$ for a chassis | 14:55 |
| JesperA | ok | 14:55 |
| zykes- | it's not glace | 14:55 |
| zykes- | it's in norwegian kroners pre vat | 14:56 |
| Glacee | oh ok | 14:56 |
| JesperA | yeah, here in Sweden it would cost something like 13000 | 14:56 |
| zykes- | 1551 $ | 14:56 |
| royh | zykes-: hi there :) | 14:56 |
| zykes- | royh: ? i know you or ;p | 14:57 |
| royh | zykes-: nope. but I use the same currency as you :P | 14:58 |
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| dubenstein | «glance add» is taking too long, bursting machine load to maximum, have someone experienced an issue like that ? | 15:05 |
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| dubenstein | trying to «glance add» oneiric-server-cloudimg-amd64.img, it's 1.4G | 15:06 |
| dubenstein | no swift banckend | 15:07 |
| zykes- | anyone here got knowhows on the Dell DX platform ? | 15:07 |
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| uvirtbot | New bug: #894431 in nova "linux_net ovsinterfacedriver is setting the wrong iface-id" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894431 | 15:51 |
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| troya | hi all | 15:58 |
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| troya | hi zykes | 15:59 |
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| coli | anybody knows what happens if tenant has many instances and he runs out of ip addresses in fixed_ip range assigned to him ? | 16:19 |
| _rfz | coli, once the ip are all used up, the next VM you try spin up will fail - with an error something like "no more fixed IP's to lease" | 16:21 |
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| zykes- | anyone tell me what a bastion server is ? | 16:36 |
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| jkyle | when I do a nova-manage floating list I get output like: <hostname> <ip_address>: None | 16:38 |
| jkyle | does the 'None' mean this ip has not been allocated | 16:38 |
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| _rfz | On a FlatDHCPManager network is possible to be ping the internal Ip of controller and compute nodes? | 17:20 |
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| zykes- | anyone here good at supermicro hardware? | 17:26 |
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| coli | _rfz: yes | 17:32 |
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| coli | zykes-: what do you require ? we have full room of these | 17:32 |
| coli | _rfz: I revert my answer. what do you mean by "FlatDHCPManager network" ? fixed_ip network ? | 17:35 |
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| zykes- | coli: hardware for swift | 17:42 |
| vidd-away | coli, i would assume he means "i have flat networking with dhcp set up and not vlan" | 17:42 |
| coli | vidd: evening ;-) | 17:44 |
| coli | vidd: by default nova is set to "vlan" mode for networking, how can I check what I have setup ? (there is no hint i nova.conf as I can see, and I have installed from Kiall scripts) | 17:45 |
| coli | zykes-: there are cases 3 or 4U high which hold 28-32 drives we use them. | 17:45 |
| coli | zykes: plus 3Ware controlers, new 3750 ones just rock, very fast. | 17:46 |
| vidd-away | hello coli if you did not specificaslly set up flat networking, then you have vlan | 17:46 |
| zykes- | 3wares for jbod ? | 17:46 |
| coli | zykes: what do you mean by jbod ? we put everything in one case, which I have mentioned. | 17:47 |
| * vidd-away has to go drive halfway accross the state for thanksgiving dinner =[ | 17:47 | |
| zykes- | coli: but you don't raid disks no ? ... | 17:47 |
| vidd-away | have fun y'all | 17:47 |
| Jeppelelle^aw | coli do you have any whitepapers on the 3750? Cant seem to find them, not out in public yet? | 17:48 |
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| zykes- | i can't even find the controller here | 17:48 |
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| coli | jepp: i'm wondering if I have made a mistake with the model, just a sec | 17:49 |
| coli | 3ware 9750.... sorry | 17:50 |
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| coli | we have connected bunch of kingston hyperx ssd drives, it was blazing fast | 17:51 |
| zykes- | that's a 8 port controller ? | 17:51 |
| coli | never seen anything that quick when it comes to disk arrays | 17:51 |
| coli | there are 16 and 24 port versions | 17:51 |
| coli | we use two 16 port per case | 17:52 |
| zykes- | coli: with a expander backplane | 17:52 |
| zykes- | can't you run a 2*8087 connectors with 6 gbit for all disks for sata ? | 17:52 |
| zykes- | for 24 disks | 17:52 |
| coli | zykes: I haven't seen them physicly, so possible it's with expander | 17:53 |
| coli | zykes: we had 6 or 8 kingston hyperx ssd drives and all were connected at 6gbit | 17:53 |
| coli | zykes: afair they had to change the cables in the case as they were unreliable and speeds were slow, after changing to new cables from backplane to card (I think foxconn cables were used) it was working fine. | 17:55 |
| zykes- | 10 gigabit network coli ? | 17:55 |
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| coli | zykes: for storage main nodes, yes. | 17:55 |
| zykes- | ok | 17:57 |
| coli | zykes: tests with kingston hyperx ssd drives were done in order to saisfy our curiosity ;-) | 17:57 |
| JesperA | coli what make/model of switches are you using for 10Gbit? | 17:58 |
| coli | asfair cisco 48xx or 49xx, I will check but I think it begins with 4... ;-) | 17:58 |
| zykes- | not force10 ? | 17:59 |
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| JesperA | Yeah the hardware recomendation suggest a 49xx: http://www.referencearchitecture.org/hardware-specifications/ | 18:00 |
| zykes- | JesperA: doesn't mean something else won't work | 18:01 |
| zykes- | does one need to use 10gigabit for replication net ? | 18:02 |
| Glacee | arent 10gb cisco super expensive? | 18:03 |
| JesperA | what cisco gear isnt? :D | 18:03 |
| zykes- | JesperA: that's for aggregate switches | 18:03 |
| zykes- | if you've got lots o racks | 18:03 |
| zykes- | we're gonna start at 3 nodes | 18:04 |
| zykes- | most likely | 18:04 |
| zykes- | so no need for that | 18:05 |
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| coli | I can see c49xx and some Brocade switches | 18:05 |
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| zykes- | coli what about force10 ? | 18:07 |
| zykes- | hp | 18:07 |
| coli | zykes: I know they exist :-) we don't use them | 18:07 |
| coli | zykes: personally I have very bad experience (end of '90s) with hp switches, however as far I'm told they have moved forward a lot ;-) | 18:08 |
| JesperA | coli, what is the reason behind the recommended hundreds of partitions per drive in swift? | 18:08 |
| coli | zykes: if you are starting with 3 nodes why do you worry ? | 18:08 |
| coli | JesperA: no idea. I didn't touch swift yet. still working out how to use nova. | 18:09 |
| JesperA | oh ok | 18:09 |
| zykes- | coli: i ain't | 18:09 |
| zykes- | we're starting with swift if it's going to be at all | 18:09 |
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| coli | zykes: just out of curiosity any particular business reason to start with swift ? public or private use ? | 18:10 |
| coli | by public I mean a lot of small users. | 18:11 |
| zykes- | private for customers atm | 18:11 |
| zykes- | ehm, so it becomes "both" | 18:11 |
| zykes- | really | 18:11 |
| zykes- | isn't a server of 24 disks 24 nodes ? | 18:12 |
| zykes- | in swift | 18:12 |
| zykes- | server_ip + disk | 18:13 |
| zykes- | = node | 18:13 |
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| notmyname | JesperA: swift partitions != disk partitions. swift partition == logical keyspace partition used to balance data throughout the cluster | 18:14 |
| zykes- | notmyname: is my question "correct"? | 18:15 |
| JesperA | oh ok that makes much more sence | 18:15 |
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| notmyname | zykes-: sorry didn't see it | 18:15 |
| notmyname | zykes-: 10gb for replicate? | 18:15 |
| zykes- | notmyname: no > $node = $server + $device | 18:16 |
| Glacee | notmyname: I think you mentioned that swift keeps all the disks operating at all time? is this true or I am mistaken.. and if yes, is it because of the auditors/replicators? | 18:16 |
| notmyname | normally the way I use "storage node" is as the box running the particular processes (container, account, object). or perhaps, if you deploy this way, the controller server + the JBODs | 18:17 |
| coli | Glacee: what do you mean by "disks operating at all time" ? | 18:17 |
| notmyname | zykes-: I think of storage volume == IP + port + mount point | 18:17 |
| notmyname | Glacee: yes. the disk spin all the time because of auditors, replicators, and also because new data can go to any disk | 18:18 |
| zykes- | notmyname: same thing then anyways | 18:18 |
| zykes- | if you do 1 disk pr mount point ? | 18:18 |
| Glacee | notmynam: thanks | 18:19 |
| notmyname | zykes-: "mount point" is more generic. eg you could do a RAID 10 volume | 18:19 |
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| zykes- | yeah | 18:19 |
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| notmyname | gotta go | 18:20 |
| zykes- | darn | 18:20 |
| notmyname | I'll be back later :-) | 18:20 |
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| zykes- | anyone here up for some economics on swift? | 18:25 |
| JesperA | 10 billion dollars | 18:25 |
| JesperA | :) | 18:25 |
| zykes- | ;p | 18:26 |
| zykes- | if i should calculate the price for gb/month of a swift zone | 18:26 |
| zykes- | what formula would that be ? | 18:26 |
| guaqua | zykes-: i was doing the same thing just today | 18:26 |
| guaqua | it depends on the replica count, amount of zones | 18:27 |
| guaqua | what kind of hardware you have | 18:27 |
| zykes- | supermicro | 18:27 |
| guaqua | you have to figure out how much your hardware costs | 18:28 |
| zykes- | that i know | 18:28 |
| guaqua | and after that, how much it costs for you to run it | 18:28 |
| zykes- | i don't have the "run" costs | 18:29 |
| zykes- | atm | 18:29 |
| zykes- | i have the buy cost pr gb pr month | 18:29 |
| guaqua | operate would be a better term for it | 18:29 |
| zykes- | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AufFjyusNdg4dGttdmtCY3BHR21aU0ZIcDBwcmoxRlE#gid=0 | 18:29 |
| guaqua | i guess swift-specific is just how many zones and how many replicas | 18:30 |
| zykes- | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AufFjyusNdg4dGttdmtCY3BHR21aU0ZIcDBwcmoxRlE sorry is the link | 18:30 |
| zykes- | what's the diff on a zone and replica? | 18:30 |
| guaqua | ahh, nice | 18:30 |
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| guaqua | replica count means how many zones a given file is | 18:30 |
| guaqua | if you have 3 zones and 3 replicas, it's on all of them | 18:31 |
| zykes- | that doesn't count though for the cost of hardware ? | 18:31 |
| zykes- | i'm working on the "small" setup atm | 18:31 |
| guaqua | depends on how you set it up | 18:31 |
| zykes- | care to help? | 18:31 |
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| zykes- | i just need to find out the price for a zone pr month | 18:32 |
| guaqua | i'm doing something similar myself | 18:32 |
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| zykes- | can we share a document ? | 18:32 |
| guaqua | i'm looking at yours | 18:32 |
| guaqua | let's say you have 12 2 TB drives | 18:33 |
| guaqua | and you have 4 nodes | 18:33 |
| guaqua | and you put them into 4 zones | 18:33 |
| zykes- | 4 servers yeah | 18:33 |
| zykes- | that's theoretically 4*12 nodes | 18:33 |
| zykes- | in "swift" terms | 18:33 |
| guaqua | so each zone consists of one physical server | 18:33 |
| guaqua | i think a node is a server | 18:33 |
| guaqua | 4 * 12 devices | 18:34 |
| zykes- | swift_node then ;) | 18:34 |
| zykes- | i only need 3 zones no ? | 18:34 |
| guaqua | i'm not exactly sure how many one would like to have | 18:34 |
| JesperA | 5 is recomended minimum but 3 would work | 18:35 |
| zykes- | i think 4 is "recommended" if i remember notmyname correctly | 18:35 |
| zykes- | 5 is "optimal" | 18:35 |
| zykes- | :p | 18:35 |
| guaqua | what makes 5 the desired count? | 18:35 |
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| zykes- | ooho | 18:59 |
| zykes- | cool thing to see the difference in pricing for a node with 48 tb | 18:59 |
| zykes- | contra 24 | 18:59 |
| zykes- | guaqua: ? | 19:04 |
| zykes- | anyone here got calculations or so on what the formula is for the cost of a swift deployment ? | 19:07 |
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| notmyname | zykes-: what are you looking for beyond the cost of your hardware? | 19:10 |
| zykes- | notmyname: i'm trying to make cost of hardware + cost gb/month | 19:11 |
| notmyname | your opex will be determined by your DC (or whatever) space and the cost of people to keep it running (including replacing broken hardware) | 19:12 |
| JesperA | impossible to say if we dont know your hosting costs | 19:12 |
| zykes- | notmyname: yeah | 19:12 |
| zykes- | but firstly i'm doing gb pr month based on server purchase costs | 19:12 |
| notmyname | isn't any per month cost entirely dependent on your operational setup (including your hosting costs)? | 19:13 |
| zykes- | notmyname: correct | 19:13 |
| zykes- | but i'm doing just servers purchase costs atm | 19:13 |
| notmyname | ah ok | 19:14 |
| notmyname | switches + LBs + cabling + servers + drives | 19:14 |
| notmyname | no software licensing costs, though ;-) | 19:14 |
| JesperA | =) | 19:15 |
| notmyname | zykes-: cloudscaling gave a presentation about 6-8 months ago that was in the neighborhood of 600K - 750K per PB for initial cap ex costs | 19:16 |
| zykes- | 600k notmyname ? | 19:16 |
| notmyname | at the santa clara design summit | 19:16 |
| praefect_ | anybody remembers where I can find smosers latest images? | 19:16 |
| Glacee | notmyname: hehe seems expensive.. | 19:16 |
| zykes- | notmyname: we're (if we're doing this) a pretty basic setup | 19:16 |
| notmyname | Glacee: depends on what you compare it to. :-) I haven't priced multi-PB SANs recently, but I hear they are expensive | 19:17 |
| Glacee | 1PB to sell or 1PB before the copy of 3 files? | 19:17 |
| zykes- | with 3 nodes of 24*2TB nodes with 2*gig for storage net pr node | 19:17 |
| notmyname | Glacee: 1PB billable | 19:17 |
| Glacee | notmyname: ah ok :) | 19:17 |
| coli | zykes: to be on the safe side with investment consider your first capex cost as your loss and concentrate on opex and ebidta | 19:19 |
| Glacee | notmyname: im around that number with the setup we are planning.. but that is with the crazy drives price right now | 19:20 |
| Glacee | even lower than that... propably due to more density that the cloudscaling setup | 19:20 |
| notmyname | Glacee: that's good to hear (it means "normal" prices are cheaper) | 19:20 |
| Glacee | but.. thats prototyping.. :) we are starting with a lot less than 1PB :0 | 19:21 |
| notmyname | drives dominate the cost of the cluster as it gets bigger | 19:21 |
| Glacee | and my concercn is HDD vibration.. we will see how it holds up | 19:21 |
| Glacee | using rubber and stuff on consumer grade drives :) | 19:22 |
| notmyname | it gets even better as 3TB drives get priced better | 19:22 |
| Glacee | wer using 3TB yeah | 19:22 |
| zykes- | notmyname: cross region replication | 19:22 |
| Glacee | thats propably where the difference is with the cloudscaling 2TB setup | 19:22 |
| notmyname | Glacee: ya | 19:23 |
| zykes- | is that planned notmyname ? | 19:23 |
| notmyname | zykes-: what about it? | 19:23 |
| notmyname | zykes-: define "region" | 19:23 |
| zykes- | "Large Single Uploads (Pending Approval) | 19:23 |
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| zykes- | + "Multi-region support (Future - Not Started)" | 19:23 |
| zykes- | is a thing we would want :/ | 19:23 |
| notmyname | zykes-: replication across a wide geographic area (ie with higher latency) is definitely on the "we need to figure this out" list | 19:24 |
| notmyname | zykes-: the large single objects handled by the proxy rather than the client is planned, too. probably sooner than high latency replication (but I don't set the dev priorities, only try to argue what they should be) | 19:25 |
| notmyname | zykes-: we'd also be happy to review any patches submitted for these *hint*hint* | 19:26 |
| Glacee | notmyname: the container replication between cluster.. I thought that was for the wide geo replication | 19:26 |
| zykes- | notmyname: how about say you have datacenter x then like 5-6 km away you have datacenter y ? | 19:26 |
| zykes- | is that "low latency" replication as well ? | 19:26 |
| notmyname | Glacee: ya, it's a start | 19:26 |
| Glacee | notmyname:at least with that you can offer.. some kind of Multi-Region DR | 19:27 |
| notmyname | zykes-: ya, that's probably not an issue now (you may have to slightly adjust some timeout settings) | 19:27 |
| zykes- | ok | 19:27 |
| zykes- | what link is recommended ? | 19:27 |
| Glacee | well I think.. does that include object replication between cluster? | 19:27 |
| notmyname | between the DCs? as big as possible ;-) | 19:27 |
| zykes- | notmyname: so 200 mbit isn't enough ? ;p | 19:27 |
| notmyname | zykes-: it could be. just depends on your use case :-) | 19:28 |
| notmyname | and how big you want your eventual consistency window to be | 19:28 |
| zykes- | is 3 zones sufficient for a start ? | 19:29 |
| notmyname | Glacee: container sync is a start to multi-geography clusters, but what I would like to see is one logical cluster that is able to span an ocean | 19:29 |
| notmyname | zykes-: only 3 zones doesn't give you any handoff zones in case of failure. I'd recommend starting with 4. 3 is minimum, 4 is better, 5+ is ideal | 19:30 |
| Glacee | notmyname: ohh that is interesting.. a Multi-Region Cluster | 19:30 |
| zykes- | ah ok | 19:30 |
| Glacee | thats ambitious :) | 19:30 |
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| notmyname | indeed :-) | 19:30 |
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| zykes- | notmyname: is there a "list" of stuff going into essex ? | 19:32 |
| Glacee | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/swift | 19:34 |
| Glacee | that would be a start zykes | 19:34 |
| notmyname | zykes-: not a complete on yet | 19:35 |
| notmyname | one | 19:35 |
| Glacee | notmyname: are you going to LISA ? | 19:36 |
| notmyname | zykes-: I expect to have a few more details soon-ish. as I figure out what the various people using swift are working on | 19:36 |
| notmyname | Glacee: since I don't know what that is, I'm going to say "no" | 19:36 |
| Glacee | ok too bad :) | 19:37 |
| Glacee | http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa11/index.html | 19:37 |
| notmyname | ah. I'll be traveling to San Francisco that week | 19:38 |
| Glacee | too bad | 19:38 |
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| guaqua | notmyname: any idea where that presentation might have been? i'd like to see the slides... :) | 19:49 |
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| notmyname | guaqua: found it. http://joearnold.com/2011/04/28/openstack-conference-commercializing-object-storage-swift/ | 19:53 |
| guaqua | massive! thanks! | 19:58 |
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| foexle | ahoi | 20:00 |
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| zykes- | Glacee: which stuff is going in for sure atm ? | 20:18 |
| zykes- | notmyname: how long would you reckon to implement a 4 zone with 1 node pr zone setup ? | 20:18 |
| notmyname | you mean how long to plug it all in? or to configure? | 20:20 |
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| zykes- | all in all | 20:25 |
| zykes- | i wonder if ~20 hours | 20:25 |
| zykes- | or so | 20:25 |
| JesperA | proxy servers for Swift isnt harddrive intensive, right? | 20:27 |
| notmyname | zykes-: I don't think I can answer that for you | 20:27 |
| JesperA | Every usefull info should already be loaded in RAM on the proxy? | 20:27 |
| Glacee | 20hours.. to have a workable swift cluster... thats ambitious :0 | 20:27 |
| notmyname | JesperA: correct. CPU, RAM, network | 20:27 |
| JesperA | good | 20:28 |
| notmyname | JesperA: the proxy doesn't cache objects | 20:28 |
| Glacee | zykes: for a production cluster.. from start to prod.. I am aiming 3-4months and I find it ambitious :0 | 20:29 |
| JesperA | no i know, but it store the storage node info so it "redirects" trafic to the nodes upon request? Maybe got that wrong | 20:29 |
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| zykes- | Glacee: for "initial" config i've already done stuff | 20:31 |
| zykes- | Glacee: for a "working" initial setup that works i think | 20:31 |
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| zykes- | notmyname: what would happen to data if you have 2 zones in 1 place and 2 zones in one other data center | 20:39 |
| zykes- | and then link goes down between ? | 20:39 |
| notmyname | zykes-: should still work with no problem (assuming no other HDD failures, etc) | 20:40 |
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| zykes- | notmyname: you know what immediate features are going in at essex ? | 20:44 |
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| notmyname | zykes-: beyond the 1.4.4 changelog (from today), I can't tell you a specific list right now. however, I can say that our focus right now is around scale (both scaling up and scaling down) and polish (bugfixes and feature augmentation) | 20:46 |
| notmyname | for example, I'd like it to be easier for smaller clusters to be deployed | 20:47 |
| notmyname | and I'd also like to see some features that allow for even bigger scale (like container sharding) | 20:47 |
| notmyname | as far as feature enhancements, I'd like to see stuff like automatic manifest creation on large objects | 20:48 |
| zykes- | notmyname: what about metadata ? | 20:48 |
| notmyname | and improvements on resource usage for internal processes (replication, auditors, etc) | 20:49 |
| notmyname | what about metadata? | 20:49 |
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| zykes- | searchable + filemetadata | 20:50 |
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| Glacee | notmyname: what about object versioning? Is that something that is of any interest for you? | 20:50 |
| notmyname | Glacee: of limited interest. there are some technical challenges to making it work well on the server-side (not that that should be a blocker....) and it's easy to do _very_ well on the client side | 20:51 |
| notmyname | Glacee: so I'd like to see it, but it's lower on the priority list | 20:51 |
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| Glacee | notmyname: good to know | 20:51 |
| notmyname | the main focus now is polish (rather than adding new stuff) | 20:52 |
| notmyname | I've written about this here http://programmerthoughts.com/openstack/swift-state-of-the-project/ | 20:52 |
| zykes- | notmyname: how hard is it to add filemetadata + search to it ? | 20:54 |
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| notmyname | zykes-: you mean sorting on arbitrary metadata? (we already support setting arbitrary metadata on objects) | 20:54 |
| notmyname | and by sorting, I'm specifically referring to the ordering of container listings | 20:55 |
| Glacee | Interesting article.. thanks | 20:55 |
| zykes- | notmyname aren't there other companies working on swift? | 20:57 |
| notmyname | zykes-: there are many companies deploying (and probably doing some internal dev). but there haven't been any large contributions to swift from outside of rackspace | 20:58 |
| zykes- | :/ | 20:58 |
| zykes- | sad that nova is taking the starlight ;p | 20:58 |
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| notmyname | indeed ;-) | 20:58 |
| notmyname | actually, I think it's great they get a lot of attention. lots of people are interested in the cloud, and most people think "compute" when the hear "cloud" | 20:59 |
| notmyname | I think storage is fundamental | 20:59 |
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| notmyname | but nova has different challenges to face. some of which are because it gets so much focus from a diverse group of people | 21:00 |
| Glacee | agreed.. if I check thenew "cloud" provider in my region.. their cloud is compute only | 21:01 |
| notmyname | but as swift PTL, I think part of my job is to do some amount of "tech evangelism" for swift so we do get more people involved in contributing code to it | 21:01 |
| zykes- | ;) | 21:02 |
| Glacee | I think that object storage is the foundation of a webscale application | 21:02 |
| zykes- | how is "future-large-single-uploads" handled now ? | 21:02 |
| zykes- | and "future-searchable-metadata" | 21:02 |
| Glacee | thats why we started our project with object storage instead of compute | 21:03 |
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| Glacee | I think to have a real cloud.. you need both really | 21:03 |
| notmyname | zykes-: implementing either one of those is up to the client now. for example, the client has to split the object and create the manifest. or the client can maintain a separate metadata store about the obejcts | 21:03 |
| zykes- | k | 21:04 |
| zykes- | how is s3 doing it ? | 21:04 |
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| notmyname | I'm not aware that they support either of those | 21:05 |
| zykes- | so if i wanted to store something larger then 5 gb today how is that handled ? | 21:06 |
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| notmyname | zykes-: split the large object into chunks <5GB. upload them. then create a zero-byte file with the appropriate x-object-manifest header. when the manifest object is fetched, it will stream all the parts serially | 21:07 |
| Glacee | containers sharding.. interesting :) | 21:07 |
| notmyname | zykes-: http://swift.openstack.org/overview_large_objects.html | 21:07 |
| notmyname | Glacee: ya, that should eliminate the practical limitation of containers with high cardinality | 21:08 |
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| JesperA | Containers works like folders right? If i want to look up the filesize in PHP i can provide the link to the file in PHP and it would calculate it? Or do i have to store that kind of values in the database? (stupid question, i know, but i have to be sure). | 21:09 |
| JesperA | From a webserver to Swift storage that is | 21:09 |
| notmyname | JesperA: containers are only sortof like folders (in that swift only sorof has filesystem similarities--swift isn't a filesystem). technically, a container is a namespace within an account | 21:11 |
| notmyname | JesperA: the best way to get the size of an object is to HEAD the object and look at the headers | 21:11 |
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| JesperA | notmyname ok so there is no real path to an object? | 21:12 |
| notmyname | JesperA: depends on what you mean by "path". each object is referenced by a unique URL of the form <storagedomain>/v1/<account>/<container>/<object> | 21:13 |
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| JesperA | ok, hmm, is it possible to symlink into that structure from the webserver? | 21:15 |
| notmyname | no. you can't mount swift | 21:15 |
| notmyname | you may find a fuse layer for it, but it will have some serious performance limitations | 21:15 |
| Kiall | JesperA: it sounds like you don't fully understand what Swift is.. Consider swift an web service API to store files.. Thats the only interface your application can know of.. | 21:16 |
| Kiall | The files could be on a server on the other side of the world, local file system access to files is not possible with Swift. | 21:16 |
| JesperA | Kiall yeah i know, but i was just looking for an easy way to move files from the webserver into the swift storage | 21:17 |
| Kiall | a HTTP PUT request :) | 21:17 |
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| JesperA | still wouldnt work with alot of our PHP code | 21:19 |
| JesperA | but i guess rewriting those is our smallest problem :P | 21:19 |
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| notmyname | JesperA: have you seen the php language bindings for swift? (actually they are for rackspace cloud files, but they will work with any swift deployment) | 21:19 |
| JesperA | Nope i have not seen those | 21:20 |
| JesperA | https://github.com/notmyname/php-cloudfiles | 21:21 |
| JesperA | ? | 21:21 |
| notmyname | JesperA: https://github.com/rackspace/php-cloudfiles | 21:21 |
| notmyname | ya | 21:21 |
| JesperA | Great, thanks | 21:25 |
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| zykes- | oh dang notmyname | 21:34 |
| zykes- | is 1.4.5 the current ? | 21:34 |
| notmyname | zykes-: as of today, yes :-) | 21:35 |
| notmyname | well, 1.4.4 was released today | 21:35 |
| notmyname | so the code has 1.4.5-dev set at the version | 21:35 |
| zykes- | so that features is in the current version or ? | 21:35 |
| notmyname | which feature? the large objects? | 21:35 |
| zykes- | link you pasted | 21:35 |
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| JesperA | notmyname sorry, stupid question again, the API is needed when a webserver wants to delete files too? | 21:37 |
| notmyname | zykes-: ya, it's been in swift for a while. looking for the link | 21:37 |
| zykes- | notmyname: what's a "ring" and ring builder ? | 21:37 |
| zykes- | and recon | 21:38 |
| notmyname | zykes-: large objects was added almost exactly one year ago https://code.launchpad.net/~gholt/swift/lobjects4/+merge/43596 | 21:38 |
| notmyname | JesperA: the only way to interact with swift is through the http api. the language bindings add some helper functions for that. | 21:39 |
| notmyname | zykes-: recon is a tool for deployers that allows swift to report on itself | 21:39 |
| zykes- | deployers meaning ? | 21:40 |
| notmyname | zykes-: recon http://swift.openstack.org/admin_guide.html#cluster-telemetry-and-monitoring | 21:40 |
| notmyname | zykes-: deployers == the person running the swift cluster | 21:40 |
| JesperA | notmyname oh ok, we delete every files that is stored within 3 months but that wont be a problem using the http api then? | 21:41 |
| notmyname | zykes-: rings http://swift.openstack.org/overview_ring.html | 21:41 |
| notmyname | JesperA: no problem | 21:41 |
| JesperA | Awesome | 21:42 |
| JesperA | I love that these kind of stuff is open source, awesome job | 21:43 |
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| notmyname | JesperA: that's thanks to some very hard work by some execs at rackspace and nasa | 21:43 |
| JesperA | Yeah, considering the hard work it is even more impressive that it is open source :P | 21:45 |
| JesperA | Must have taken a huge amount of time getting to the point where it is today | 21:45 |
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| zykes- | notmyname: can one do like a swift rebalance ? | 21:46 |
| Kiall | zykes-: sounds like MogileFS terms? Moving from MFS? | 21:46 |
| zykes- | Kiall: like to "balance" data | 21:46 |
| zykes- | or does it do that automagically | 21:47 |
| notmyname | zykes-: the data is automatically balanced throughout the cluster (and rebalances itself as you resize the cluster) | 21:47 |
| zykes- | ok | 21:48 |
| zykes- | so say you change a drive | 21:48 |
| zykes- | in node x of 4 zones and you do that for each node in each zone | 21:49 |
| zykes- | then it ottomatically scales up ? | 21:49 |
| notmyname | yup | 21:49 |
| zykes- | but then it's like a raid, you need to scale up at least 1 node pr zone ? | 21:50 |
| Kiall | Was handed 5 old-ish but not too old servers today and asked to take anything useful out.. So far I have 30x 250GB SATA150 HD's -_- Waste of effort undoing 120 screws! | 21:50 |
| notmyname | it's a good idea to keep the zones the same size. you can either expand the zones or add new zones | 21:50 |
| zykes- | notmyname: but then | 21:53 |
| zykes- | say you do like you some times do in a riad | 21:53 |
| zykes- | you got "working" existing hardware but with small disks | 21:53 |
| notmyname | and you want to upgrade disks or add larger disks | 21:53 |
| notmyname | ? | 21:53 |
| notmyname | no problem | 21:53 |
| zykes- | and the baseline hardware takes +X tb disks contra the ones you have | 21:53 |
| zykes- | that's what i meant | 21:53 |
| zykes- | what commands etc do you use ? | 21:54 |
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| notmyname | as you are adding devices to the ring, set the weight appropriately. a good start is to set the weight to the number of GB in each drive. for example, a 2TB drive can have a weight of 2000 and a 3 TB drive has a weight of 3000 | 21:55 |
| notmyname | the weights don't mean anything except in relation to one another | 21:55 |
| notmyname | and it's used to ensure that heterogeneous drives grow evenly | 21:55 |
| notmyname | it also allows you do slowly fill or drain a particular drive (or group of drives) by slowly raising or lowering the associated weight | 21:56 |
| zykes- | ah | 21:56 |
| notmyname | for example, when we add zones at rackspace, we add them over a period of time by raising the weights | 21:57 |
| zykes- | notmyname: which frontends do you know of for swift ? | 21:57 |
| notmyname | 25%, 50%, 75%, 100% | 21:57 |
| jasona | hmm | 21:57 |
| zykes- | that's when you add a zone like cluster? | 21:58 |
| jasona | morning! | 21:58 |
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| notmyname | zykes-: cyberduck, one or more iOS apps, | 21:58 |
| zykes- | smestorage ? | 21:59 |
| notmyname | zykes-: ya, when we add zones to existing clusters | 21:59 |
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| zykes- | hmm, pardon but what's the diff on a cluster and a zone ? | 22:00 |
| notmyname | cluster == many zones | 22:00 |
| notmyname | a zone is just a partition of availability in your deployment | 22:01 |
| notmyname | perhaps it is an isolated DC room. or set of cabinets with a separate power supply | 22:01 |
| notmyname | that is highly dependent on your deployment details | 22:02 |
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| Glacee | notmyname: questions about rings.. lets say that your initial setup contained a certain amount of partitions when you created the ring.. let say that you ring grows that each device has 100 partitions.. your screwed? | 22:04 |
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| jasona | asking the same q as before (so the rest of you can ignore me ;-) but.. anyone here have a purchasing spec for openstack hardware ? | 22:04 |
| Glacee | jasona: depends on your use case :0 | 22:04 |
| jasona | glacee: development node for university researchers. | 22:05 |
| notmyname | Glacee: yes :-) at least only without a _lot_ of effort on your part | 22:05 |
| jasona | looking to run about 200-300 VMs | 22:05 |
| Glacee | hehe.. at rackspace.. you propably set the partitions number at a very high number? | 22:05 |
| jasona | a mix of 2-4-8 core VMs. between 4 and 16G of ram each mostly. | 22:05 |
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| notmyname | Glacee: changing your partition power would require that you rehash all of the data in the cluster. that means you have to migrate it all (GET(old ring)+PUT(new ring)) | 22:05 |
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| Kiall | jasona: rackspace have a published "Reference Architecture".. might be of use for you.. http://www.referencearchitecture.org/hardware-specifications/ | 22:06 |
| jasona | i had a lok | 22:06 |
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| jasona | it is sort of useful but kinda mostly if you want to buy dell. which is why i was hoping to get some more feedback :) | 22:06 |
| jasona | i was looking for more generic feedback from people | 22:07 |
| Kiall | really though, its hard to put any numbers on it without knowing the workload etc etc.. | 22:07 |
| Glacee | notmyname: yeah thats what I thought.. I will put a crazy number to start with and see how it reacts :0 | 22:07 |
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| notmyname | jasona: I'mnot sure who came up with that reference architecture list | 22:07 |
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| jasona | well, i would define the workload as mixed use, small to medium. i was figuring on 3-4 compute nodes, some object storage etc | 22:07 |
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| jasona | i.e the point is to have a working openstack cluster that we can give researchers to actually do some work on | 22:08 |
| jasona | rather than hand creating all the KVM machines they need | 22:08 |
| jasona | we're going to give them about 200-500T of storage to do stuff with alongside that. (most of which is not swift) | 22:08 |
| notmyname | Glacee: don't go too big | 22:08 |
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| Kiall | jasona: really, thats not the workload.. the workload is more along the lines of what are they using those VMs for.. is it I/O intensive? RAM intensive? CPU intensive etc etc... | 22:08 |
| jasona | ahhh | 22:08 |
| notmyname | Glacee: you should be able to come up with a reasonable number | 22:08 |
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| Glacee | notmyname: thanks for the advise.. would 2^30 is reasonable or Im crazy? | 22:09 |
| Kiall | At the end of the day, its that sort of information which will tell you what hardware to buy... | 22:09 |
| notmyname | that's _huge_ | 22:09 |
| jasona | it's genomics researchers ? :) yes they like more ram. cpu not so much. i/o intensive yes but only in moving large amounts of data | 22:09 |
| Glacee | hahah yeah thats what I thought :) | 22:09 |
| jasona | i.e if they need to move 100G files.. and a few T of data to solve basic problems. but they aren't generating large i/o loads other than as workflow | 22:09 |
| notmyname | Glacee: ya, that allows you to have 10737418 storage volumes | 22:09 |
| notmyname | that's almost 200K 60-node servers | 22:10 |
| Glacee | lol yeah | 22:10 |
| notmyname | I somehow doubt you'll get a cluster that big | 22:10 |
| jasona | unless glacee works for blizzard ? :) | 22:11 |
| Kiall | jasona: you're not going to be able to articulate the workloads in an IRC chat ;) And the end of the day, you need to figure out what the users will be doing (in terms of CPU/RAM/disk I/O/network I/O etc) then size the hardware to handle that... | 22:11 |
| Glacee | jasona: hell no.. I would be a shame now their panderia release.. what a joke | 22:11 |
| jasona | kiall: the users can't give me that now | 22:12 |
| Kiall | then you cant size the hardware accurately :) | 22:12 |
| jasona | kiall: and i have to take a stab at close enough, since this has to be ordered in 3 weeks.. | 22:12 |
| jasona | or it sets of a chain reaction that kills a bunch of project stuff :) | 22:12 |
| jasona | maybe i can't do it accurately. can i try for 'in the same city' even if i can't get 'in the same ballpark' ? | 22:13 |
| Kiall | lol, then you need to get in front of them and annoy them until they tell you what they need ;) | 22:13 |
| Glacee | is 2^22 more reasonable or still crazy in your openion? | 22:13 |
| notmyname | Glacee: partition power of 30 would allow you to have a cluster with nearly 5000PB of _billable_ storage (at 80% full) | 22:13 |
| notmyname | assuming you use 2TB drives | 22:14 |
| jasona | kiall: they honestly can't give me more and they have no incentive to do that anyway. | 22:14 |
| Glacee | yeah.. I realised that it was a crazy number after posting to the channel :) | 22:14 |
| jasona | the cluster being built is being built partly to get them to look at this stuff and use it | 22:14 |
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| jasona | i.e get them interested in openstack and using the paas in the future. rather than the jillion small clusters around the place | 22:14 |
| notmyname | Glacee: 20 or 22 is quite reasonable for large clusters | 22:14 |
| jasona | so with that in mind, taking a median approach, more feedback on hardware spec ? :) | 22:15 |
| Kiall | jasona: then really, all you can do is guess.. start small. Since this is "get them to look at this stuff and use it", start with as little hardware as possible. Then you'll see what people really use. | 22:15 |
| Glacee | yeah 41PB of billable storage with 2^22 | 22:16 |
| notmyname | Glacee: 22 gives you 19PB of billable storage with 2TB drives | 22:16 |
| Glacee | using 3TB drives | 22:16 |
| notmyname | heh | 22:16 |
| Glacee | hmm | 22:16 |
| notmyname | 2**22 / 100 * 2000 * .91 * .8 / 3 / 2**20 | 22:16 |
| notmyname | .91 is marketing to actual formatted size | 22:16 |
| notmyname | .8 is 80% full | 22:17 |
| notmyname | 3 for replica count | 22:17 |
| notmyname | 2**20 to convert from GB to PB | 22:17 |
| notmyname | .91 is ok for 2TB drives. it will be different for 3TB drives | 22:17 |
| Glacee | thanks.. I will keep that formula.. handy... | 22:17 |
| Glacee | ok I will check with 3TB | 22:18 |
| Kiall | jasona: eg start with closer to commodity hardware.. eg 1Gb ethernet not 10g, you'll quickly see if there really is a need for 10g, of if more CPU is needed, that way - you have the budget left to upgrade etc | 22:18 |
| notmyname | 3TB marketing == 3000000000 bytes unformatted. format and convert to bast 2 measurements to get the proper ratio | 22:18 |
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| Glacee | from a few website it seems like .91 also for 3TB | 22:21 |
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| Glacee | Formatted capacity 2.72TB | 22:21 |
| notmyname | Vl2**22 / 100 * 2794 * .8 / 3 / 2**20 for 3TB (2794 is number of GB in a 3TB drive) | 22:21 |
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| notmyname | 2**22 / 100 * 2794 * .8 / 3 / 2**20 = 29.80263824462891PB billable | 22:22 |
| notmyname | ah ok. 2.72 formatted | 22:22 |
| notmyname | still. 29PB | 22:22 |
| Glacee | 52M/year at 0.15gb | 22:25 |
| Glacee | not bad :0 | 22:25 |
| notmyname | heh :-) | 22:25 |
| JesperA | How big is the biggest implementation of Swift? | 22:26 |
| JesperA | (biggest knowned) | 22:26 |
| notmyname | JesperA: "billions of files, petabytes of data" (unfortunately, that's all rackspace let's me say) | 22:26 |
| Kiall | I would imagine Rackspace, but I doubt they give specifics... | 22:27 |
| notmyname | but our clusters are larger than all the other published numbers I've seen | 22:27 |
| Glacee | if they cluster reach that capacity.. thats what I call a Champagne problem :0 | 22:27 |
| Glacee | the* | 22:27 |
| JesperA | =) | 22:27 |
| notmyname | indeed | 22:27 |
| Glacee | do you think that 2^22 my be too slow if we start with around 140 devices? | 22:28 |
| Glacee | may* | 22:28 |
| notmyname | Glacee: the slowdowns associated with a larger ring size only come with updating the ring (which is done offline) | 22:29 |
| notmyname | Glacee: the other worry is the extra filesystem overhead for all the directory entries | 22:29 |
| Glacee | ok | 22:30 |
| Glacee | thanks again for your help.. that was instructive.. heading out | 22:30 |
| notmyname | have a good day | 22:31 |
| Glacee | you too thanks | 22:31 |
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| coli | notmyname: are you working in UK or US ? | 22:56 |
| jasona | kiall: i'm definitely looking at commodity for kit. just trying to differentiate | 22:56 |
| jasona | kiall: wondering how other people pick between dell vs hp vs ibm vs.. | 22:56 |
| coli | kiall: hi, in my opinnion your script needs change in ec2_dmz_host parametr in nova.conf , it should point to local compute node where nova-api is running and not to controler. if it points to a controler then instance is unable to communicate with 169.254.169.254 (when compute node is on different host then controler) | 22:57 |
| coli | jason: we use supermicro for years and didn't havy much problems. softlayer is using them as well in large numbers. | 22:58 |
| coli | kiall: to be specific instance is able to communicate with 169.254.169.254 (that is nova-api) but nova-api is unable to retrive metadata as the packets arrive with source address of the compute node and not of the instance. | 22:59 |
| tjoy | jasona: supermicro does make good gear | 23:01 |
| jasona | no argument there. but if they don't supply through existing gov contracts etc.. probably can't use them | 23:02 |
| notmyname | coli: us | 23:03 |
| tjoy | coli: isn't 169.254.whatever a local address like 127.0.0.1 ? am i missing something important? | 23:04 |
| coli | tjoy: 169.254.169.254 is being DNAT'ed to value of ec2_dmz_host and port 8873 (default unless set by parameter) | 23:05 |
| coli | upps port 8773 | 23:06 |
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| JesperA | Anyone knows if it is possible to make HTTP requests to a Dell EqualLogic array? | 23:19 |
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| krish | hey guys | 23:24 |
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| krish | hi im trying to restart nova network | 23:30 |
| krish | and it fails with error | 23:30 |
| krish | anyone interested to see a pastie of it ? :) | 23:30 |
| coli | what does the error say ? | 23:31 |
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