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uvirtbot | New bug: #986462 in openstack-ci "Please add git changelog to tarballs." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986462 | 03:21 |
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jvargas | hi. I see there is the Swift project, but is there an initiative or something like amazon EBS ? | 03:43 |
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cryptographrix | jvargas: See Openstack Volume | 06:57 |
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zykes- | was quantum_auth_token remove ? | 11:16 |
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burhan | can someone explain in layman's terms -- how exactly is openstack different from say vmware's own virtual machine management system? | 11:19 |
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burhan | can someone explaint o me in layman's terms - how is openstack different from vmware's server management tools? | 11:36 |
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Spirilis | burhan: it doesn't cost an arm and a leg, it directly supports cloud architectures based around stuff like Amazon EC2. | 11:43 |
Spirilis | Other than that I'm not familiar enough with vmware's tools to know which features they've added in the past few years... | 11:44 |
burhan | but don't you need a vmware server in order to use openstack? | 11:44 |
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burhan | I mean, where would it create the virtual machines? | 11:44 |
nicolas2b | burhan : openstack link with an hypervisor to launch the VM | 11:46 |
nicolas2b | the hypervisor can be xen, kvm, quemy (or soon hyper-v) | 11:47 |
nicolas2b | the admin of instance you made in vmware, you make it in (for now) horizon dashboard or nova cli | 11:47 |
burhan | so how do you add more sources to openstack? | 11:48 |
nicolas2b | with openstack instead of one hypervisor, you can have many different (in different server) for several need (ie : one with lxc for "small" footprint, one with hyper-v for windows VM) | 11:48 |
nicolas2b | source ? | 11:49 |
nicolas2b | you mean image of server (like AWS ami ?) | 11:49 |
burhan | no, a bit more basic than that. So I understand that I need a server running openstack which will manage another server that will host the virtual machines. | 11:49 |
burhan | this server that will host the vms can be any of the supported hypervisors (vmware, xen, kvm, etc.) | 11:50 |
nicolas2b | yes, in fact it can all be in the same server | 11:50 |
nicolas2b | yes | 11:50 |
burhan | but how do I .. add more resources ... openstack? So I have two "host" servers, one is xen the other vmware? | 11:50 |
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nicolas2b | it can be a configuration, each server is called a compute node | 11:51 |
nicolas2b | with a specific capability (=> an available hypervisor) | 11:51 |
burhan | can a machine span more than one node? | 11:51 |
nicolas2b | i don't think so, but each node can run as many VM as the memeroy/cpu/storage allow it | 11:52 |
nicolas2b | in fact a machine is a node | 11:53 |
burhan | so I cannot pool resources? So say I need a machine image that requires 16 GB of RAM, and I have 8GB on one node, and 8 on another, I cannot combine the nodes? | 11:53 |
nicolas2b | I my understanding, no, but check with people who have OS in prod | 11:54 |
russellb | that is correct, you can not do that | 11:55 |
nicolas2b | here is some example of architecture : http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-compute/admin/content/example-installation-architecture.html | 11:55 |
zynzel | burhan: and in vmware you can 'mix' resources from many host machine in one vm? | 11:55 |
* nicolas2b is also curious to know if it's possible in a product | 11:55 | |
zynzel | i dont think so, even if this is bloody slow. | 11:56 |
zynzel | assume you have ethernet 10GB between hosts | 11:57 |
zynzel | ddr3 ram can use ~20GB... | 11:57 |
zynzel | so you have bootleneck in lan. | 11:57 |
zynzel | and if you use infiniban for example, cheaper is buying big server with XXX GB Ram and dont use virtualization. | 11:58 |
zynzel | in my opinion ;) | 11:58 |
burhan | hrmm, that document helped. So if I understand - you get a box, install some hypervisor on it - install nova-compute on it, and that adds it to the available pool of compute nodes. | 11:59 |
burhan | then you do the same thing for disk storage? | 11:59 |
zynzel | burhan: this depends what you need. | 12:00 |
zynzel | openstack have many component, and you dont need all of it. | 12:00 |
burhan | well right now what I am looking for is a way to easily launch machines from templates - without having to pay for vmware :) | 12:01 |
zynzel | burhan: so you need nova-compute, nova-network and nova-volume (persistent storage for vm) | 12:03 |
burhan | on a side note, what is used to generate the documentation site? | 12:03 |
zynzel | and services to link all components (nova-api, nova-scheduler, mysql, rabbitmq, glance) | 12:04 |
zynzel | http://xip-1077754327103.http.internapcdn.net/xip-1077754327103/blog/nova-logical-arch-essex.jpg | 12:04 |
zynzel | have a look :) this is scarry only on first look :) | 12:04 |
burhan | O.O | 12:05 |
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nicolas2b | (important note : the storage will evolve in the next 6 month) | 12:12 |
nicolas2b | storage => nova-volume | 12:12 |
zynzel | nicolas2b: any blueprint for changes? | 12:12 |
russellb | burhan: the docs are generated from https://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals | 12:13 |
nicolas2b | not yet in believe because it was one of the topic discussed last week in the summit (I was not there sadly) | 12:13 |
russellb | so, it's docbook based. i'm not sure the specific tools used to generate the html version you find on docs.openstack.org though | 12:13 |
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zynzel | nicolas2b: maybe you know about plans with zones? ;) | 12:16 |
russellb | what about it | 12:16 |
zynzel | in stable essex zone code was removed, and i cant find any info about it | 12:17 |
russellb | the replcaement is still a work in progress, and is being referred to as "cells" | 12:17 |
zynzel | yea, but any blueprint how this should work? | 12:18 |
zynzel | im going to build second zone in our deployment and cant find anything usefull | 12:18 |
nicolas2b | I can't say anything better than russellb | 12:18 |
russellb | nope. but the main dev on cells said he'd try to get some docs up soon.. | 12:18 |
russellb | well it's not ready yet afaik.. | 12:19 |
zynzel | we probably use availability_zone code for that | 12:19 |
zynzel | change nova-volume code to supports availability_zone, and build mirror of our first deployment | 12:20 |
zynzel | with loadbalance for rabbit and mysql | 12:20 |
zynzel | and *-api | 12:21 |
burhan | russellb: but how are they displayed? The script that is running on docs? | 12:23 |
russellb | burhan: there are a lot of tools out there for rending docs in different formats from docbook format ... i'm not sure what they are using though | 12:23 |
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DigitalFlux | Hi Folks | 12:49 |
DigitalFlux | Does the Essex release support running multiple hypervisors (on multiple nova-compute nodes) within the same nova installation ? | 12:50 |
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nicolas2b | yes, you specifiy it on the nova-conf file | 12:57 |
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zykes- | hola | 12:58 |
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zykes- | ;) | 12:58 |
DigitalFlux | nicolas2b: good to know | 12:58 |
DigitalFlux | nicolas2b: Do i have any options when launching an instance from the API so specify whether i want this instance as an ESX VM or a KVM one ? | 12:59 |
zykes- | anyone using quantum ? | 12:59 |
DigitalFlux | nicolas2b: assuming that i'll run ESX & KVM across my nova installation .. | 12:59 |
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nicolas2b | zykes : mee, I try | 12:59 |
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nicolas2b | DigitalFlux : I'm not sure, but mayble look for the scheduler function | 12:59 |
nicolas2b | It choose the right compute node depending on parameter, maybe hypervisor is one of them | 13:00 |
nicolas2b | zykes : In fact, I try using because VM doesn't launch | 13:00 |
nicolas2b | *maybe | 13:00 |
DigitalFlux | nicolas2b: okie, will take a look at that, but having heterogeneous hypervisors under the same nova cloud is not tricky or anything right ? just straight forward nova.conf configuration ? | 13:01 |
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nicolas2b | from what I understand, yes. but if you try to migrate VM, keep in mind the hypervisor used | 13:01 |
DigitalFlux | ofc | 13:02 |
DigitalFlux | nicolas2b: you're talking about live migration, right ? | 13:02 |
nicolas2b | even, "cold" one, if you have microsoft vm, I believe not all hypervisor can reboot it | 13:02 |
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DigitalFlux | nicolas2b: I see, there is a difference in image disk format too ? | 13:03 |
nicolas2b | but those question are on the limit of my knowledge, so do not take only my word | 13:03 |
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DigitalFlux | nicolas2b: no worries :), you're more than helpful | 13:03 |
DigitalFlux | nicolas2b: Any ideas if there is differences in the image formats ? like i can use a KVM disk image stored in glance to launch an ESX VM ? | 13:04 |
nicolas2b | sorry, no idea | 13:04 |
DigitalFlux | nicolas2b: Thanks :) | 13:05 |
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VivekVC | nijaba: Are you around ? | 13:12 |
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zykes- | anyone here tested Ryu ? | 13:30 |
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nijaba | VivekVC: hello | 14:12 |
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uvirtbot | New bug: #986501 in swift "No module named middleware.healthcheck" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986501 | 14:38 |
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* nicolas2b is back | 15:51 | |
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zykes- | anyone here got Quantum working with Horizon ? | 16:50 |
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nicolas2b | the code to show quantum in horizon is still in review, i try it and it display nothing. | 17:02 |
nicolas2b | I need to get in touch with the author | 17:03 |
zykes- | :/ | 17:03 |
nicolas2b | yeah, I know | 17:04 |
nicolas2b | do you are able to boot VM with quantum ? | 17:04 |
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zykes- | I thought it included Quantum support nicolas2b ? | 17:21 |
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nicolas2b | you mean horizon ? | 17:22 |
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zykes- | nicolas2b: | 17:40 |
zykes- | correct | 17:40 |
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nicolas2b | so not yet, code here : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/6548/ | 17:41 |
nicolas2b | (I'm not the author) | 17:41 |
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zykes- | right before I deploy horizon trunk instead then :p | 17:42 |
zykes- | Why release Horizon without support for it :( | 17:43 |
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nicolas2b | because quantum is not yet an official project, and it's code is changing | 17:54 |
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nicolas2b | but you know the drill, i you really want it, try to do it ;-) | 17:55 |
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zykes- | guess I can just DL the code and install it ;p | 17:57 |
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zykes- | nicolas2b: you gonna run quantum or ? | 18:23 |
nicolas2b | zykes : "old" method of nova-network : flatmanager, flatdhcpmanager, vlanmanager | 18:24 |
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zykes- | you gonna run horizon nicolas2b ? | 18:47 |
nicolas2b | I got it running, yes | 18:47 |
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zykes- | nicolas2b: with quantum or ? | 18:58 |
nicolas2b | you can't manage network in horizon (quantum or plain network) | 18:59 |
zykes- | nicolas2b: without the review stuff no ;p | 18:59 |
nicolas2b | but all the components works (container, images, instance) | 18:59 |
zykes- | but IF i make a new pkg which is "patched" | 19:00 |
zykes- | then it's another deal ;p | 19:00 |
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nicolas2b | I apply the patch, and I still can't succeed to manage network :-( | 19:07 |
zykes- | lemme try | 19:09 |
richardraseley | Good afternoon. | 19:10 |
zykes- | so wazzup ? | 19:16 |
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zykes- | doh nicolas2b, the CLI tools for quantum isn't gonna work with keystone anyways ;p | 19:22 |
nicolas2b | in fact, if you link nova and quantum (with nova.conf) nova-network call automatically quantum | 19:22 |
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zykes- | I know nicolas2b | 19:24 |
zykes- | automatically call it how? For creating networks ? | 19:24 |
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nicolas2b | yes, with network_manager=nova.network.quantum.manager.QuantumManager | 19:26 |
zykes- | floating as well or ? | 19:27 |
nicolas2b | I don't tink so | 19:27 |
nicolas2b | *think | 19:28 |
zykes- | so basically I think quantum keystone is currently borked | 19:28 |
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nicolas2b | highly possible, quantum is still WIP | 19:30 |
zykes- | ;p | 19:31 |
zykes- | or rather speaking the cli tools are bokred | 19:31 |
zykes- | dumdidum | 19:33 |
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nicolas2b | zykes : check the quantum.sh exercise to see quantum network creation and vm boot with those network | 19:34 |
zykes- | nicolas2b: excercise ? | 19:39 |
nicolas2b | in devstack project, exercises dir | 19:39 |
nicolas2b | zykes- : I thought you was using it | 19:40 |
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Chammmmm | Is the state of openstack swift spring 2012 conference available anywere as video or slides? | 19:51 |
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Matt1 | hi | 20:01 |
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Glacee | Hi | 20:03 |
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Matt1 | So looking at using openstack for a project soon is there a way of putting object storawge and compute on one server without using sererate vm's for them? | 20:03 |
nicolas2b | MAtt1 : yes, install on the bare-metal server (if you can) | 20:04 |
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nicolas2b | Matt1 : or on the same VM, you can find doc about that under the title 'openstack one node install' | 20:05 |
Matt1 | What so you can install compute and object storage on the same host os? | 20:05 |
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nicolas2b | yes | 20:06 |
nicolas2b | just check that the server git enough power (cpu, ram, available hard drive) | 20:07 |
Matt1 | What I kinda want to do is not only have one node but use a few racks full of single servers to host compute and object storage on the same server rather than run storage servers and compute servers seperatly | 20:08 |
nicolas2b | about the storage, you will need hard drive for 4 things : images storage, instance running storage, nova-volume (persistent storage in VM), swift (object) storage | 20:08 |
Matt1 | yea looking at dual socket 16 physical core 32gb ram servers with 12 3tb hard disks plus a boot disk | 20:09 |
nicolas2b | just what I need, you can mail me one ? ;-) | 20:09 |
Matt1 | hehe will have a butt load of excess compute power first couple of months. we need about 3PB of object storage and around 1000 core of proc power so i can set this up with object storage and compute with a single host os (obviously each with thier own network port) and run this with hundreds of computers in a cloud type config ? | 20:12 |
nicolas2b | in theory, you can run all in one node, but for what you need, I may only advice on several servers | 20:13 |
Matt1 | .. as all i can see is how to set up a cloud with only one sever (with object storage and compute ) but not how to have object storage and compute on a server but still run teh same sort of cloud that rackspace might even though they segregate object storage and compute onto different boxes | 20:14 |
nicolas2b | when you got all installed, you got your cloud like rackspace | 20:15 |
zykes- | nicolas2b: you know of Melange is working for essex ? | 20:16 |
nicolas2b | zykes- : +/- the same result as quantum | 20:16 |
Matt1 | awesome so is there any documentation on configuring like this ? we currently run a very different clustering system at the moment | 20:16 |
nicolas2b | i don't know, as for people at dell/HP/ubuntu (some are on IRC), they have cloud running with openstack | 20:18 |
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nicolas2b | *ask | 20:18 |
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Matt1 | What sort of network gear are people putting in thier clouds is anyone using 10Gbit per server? | 20:37 |
z | Matt1: well AWS have public info stating they have EC2 instances with 10GbE connections | 20:39 |
zykes- | Matt1: yeah i think some people use 10g (hpc) f ex | 20:41 |
Matt1 | Yep AWS have used 10G/server for new gear for a wile now but im' just wandering what sort of traffic people are actually seeing on the public/private network for object storage my math says with replecation we will need about 5G/server | 20:41 |
Matt1 | But 10G network gear is basically 8x 1g stuff | 20:41 |
z | Matt1: I'm not aware of many folks doing the 'all in one' model because a lot of workloads benefit greatly from fast I/O performance on ephemeral storage | 20:42 |
z | Matt1: power efficiency kicks in with 8GbE vs 10GbE though. More ports. More power. More switches. More config. | 20:42 |
Matt1 | Yea but as my calcs say even at worst 5G is needed it would be the two internal nics plus a 4 port gig-E card giving 6G a server which is still plenty bandwidth wise. And it is a load cheap to do that but 10G is tempting as lower power/lower maintance and longer life (will probably have to move to 10G before the 1G switches start failing on us) | 20:45 |
z | Even at 6xGbE over a 300-node cluster that is 1800 ports of TOR - now you want to factor in bisection bandwidth - what choke can you take on uplinks? | 20:46 |
Matt1 | "I'm not aware of many folks doing the 'all in one' model because a lot of workloads benefit greatly from fast I/O performance on ephemeral storage" what do you mean people are using compute and a San ? rather than compute and object or block storage? | 20:46 |
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z | If you expect each server to be doing ~5Gbps then your ports are at 80% so even a 2:1 choke would be painful. Uplink congestion. | 20:47 |
z | I know that Rackspace have stated they have SAN in the mixture. Point was more I don't know many people colocating Nova/Swift. | 20:49 |
Matt1 | Bi section is no big deal Diverse dark fiber ring each fibre has 16*10g so 640Gigabit of intra site bandwidth at each site and bi section at a given site is basically non blocking (48 GE ports on 4*10G uplinks) | 20:49 |
Matt1 | I don't know why people arn't coloing nova/swift it makes massive sense cost wise as with compute chasis you have hard disk space and ports not bing used and at storage nodes you have compute power not bieng used | 20:51 |
z | See previous note about I/O capabilities of your Compute chassis being used by instances, and thus, not being available for Swift without performance degradation. | 20:52 |
zykes- | win 38 | 20:52 |
zynzel | Matt1: on compute node you should use fast ssd drives (as z says for fast i/o performance on ephemeral storage) | 20:52 |
zynzel | and swift is not for fast io :) | 20:52 |
z | Really depends on your usage case though. Every deployment is different. | 20:52 |
Matt1 | No OFC swift is not for fast I/o thats what we have SANs for. However for each node it will as above have 12 disks and 16 cores just the pure i/o of 12 disks is huge compared to 2 or 4. So as I/O on swift will not be huge the spare I/O can go to compute. | 20:55 |
Lumiere | Matt1: how are you planning to raid though | 20:55 |
z | Splitting things out isn't really a huge penalty. Based on your requirements (3PB, 1000 cores) you could do that in 6 racks or so if you really wanted. | 20:55 |
Matt1 | win 38? | 20:55 |
z | Optimise your Swift systems - you don't need a 12-core monster. Bandwidth needs are different. Think about proxies too, how many do you need, etc? | 20:56 |
zykes- | Matt1: I can't you just use quad cores with 8 gb mem for storage boxes ? | 20:57 |
Matt1 | initially it was going to be a raid 6 colume however we coudl have say 4 disks as 10 or 15k in hardware raid 10 for the compute to use and teh other 8 disks for the swift to use | 20:57 |
z | Long and short is your question about "Is it possible?" would be a 'Yes'. Look at DevStack to see how it accomplishes it for ideas, and as to "Is it a good idea?" well IMO not something I'd do however it depends on your exact situation :) | 20:57 |
Matt1 | Because our compute nodes we would buy would have spare compute capacity and spare disk slots | 20:58 |
Matt1 | @Z a 4u chasis with 24 bays and a quad/mobo/ram/network ect is not much less than TWO amd dell R515 with 12 bays and 16 cores | 21:00 |
zykes- | Matt1: it's stupid to have a dual cpu | 21:00 |
zykes- | for that I think | 21:00 |
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zykes- | Matt1: concidered supermiccro ? | 21:01 |
z | I don't know anything about the Dell systems. Sorry. | 21:01 |
Matt1 | Proxies are no big deal Will just pull a few r410's out of stock and add in network cards | 21:01 |
Matt1 | the 4u box was supermicro. | 21:02 |
z | Density using 4U systems will likely be somewhat suboptimal. | 21:02 |
z | But again; this is a business exercise - is it an internal datacenter? External? What's the cost for power, space, etc? | 21:02 |
Matt1 | ? as in compute or disk density? | 21:02 |
z | Both. | 21:02 |
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zykes- | Matt1: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AufFjyusNdg4dGttdmtCY3BHR21aU0ZIcDBwcmoxRlE#gid=0 < supermicro ref | 21:03 |
Matt1 | Business exercise, power and space are expensive (london) hence why it's so much more efficient to use 2u boxes with compute and storage | 21:03 |
z | most of the larger colo facilities in London are *not* modern, and are in demand :) | 21:04 |
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z | power per square foot in Telehouse, most of the Telecity facilities and even GlobalSwitch is pathetically low | 21:05 |
zykes- | for storage Matt1 get Supermicro 4U (Will take 24 drives pr box) | 21:05 |
zykes- | or Dell boxes in 2U | 21:05 |
z | so you may be right, 4U servers are no great penalty. | 21:06 |
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zykes- | for compute you can do Dell R415 or R515 | 21:06 |
Matt1 | Urm we have a 6 rack cage in LHC (telstra) 3 racks in THW (will expand to 5 or 6 racks if project goes ahead) and a rack in cogent london (again will expand to 5/6) all of these are 6kw racks | 21:08 |
z | 6kW = pathetically low :) | 21:08 |
* z smiles. | 21:08 | |
WormMan | ooo, 10 whole servers per rack | 21:09 |
WormMan | :) | 21:09 |
z | 4U amd quad will be ~600W (if not a bit more) with 12xLFF | 21:09 |
z | so yeah, stick 10 in a rack with a pair of TORs and you're done | 21:10 |
Matt1 | Ok you havent been in other london facility next door have you? :P Telecity has some racks limited to 4a (1kw) a rack and some 2kw racks. Telehouse north and telehouse west are between 1-2kw a rack too as are global switch | 21:11 |
z | I am aware of this :) | 21:11 |
Matt1 | *east even | 21:11 |
z | last time I talked to Telehouse about THW they could go up to 10kW with their ridiculous/stupid Hitachi water-cooled racks | 21:11 |
z | but that was in $job[-1] so it may have improved since. I know they won't be able to take THW to capacity until after the Olympics due to power being reserved for that. | 21:12 |
Matt1 | yep they can but at twice the price per rack as our 6kw racks - go figure | 21:12 |
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AgorA | hi! | 21:48 |
Matt1 | hi | 21:48 |
AgorA | i want to try open stack nova (with is family keystone and glance, of course ) | 21:49 |
AgorA | i try to install it few time on debian (sid release) | 21:49 |
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AgorA | and with the 2012.1 branch of the git repositories of the different projects | 21:50 |
AgorA | i start with keystone then glance | 21:50 |
AgorA | but i fail every time with errors like : "no glance endpoint in the keystone answer" or "no authorized" | 21:51 |
AgorA | and i read a lot of docs ... | 21:51 |
Lumiere | AgorA: you might want to try devstack? | 21:51 |
Lumiere | at least as a starting point | 21:51 |
AgorA | yep | 21:51 |
AgorA | i try it | 21:51 |
AgorA | and i think it doesn't work | 21:52 |
Lumiere | I don't know tons about it all, but I do know that is what usually people recommend to start from | 21:52 |
AgorA | yep | 21:52 |
AgorA | i install it | 21:52 |
AgorA | +ed | 21:52 |
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AgorA | but i try to manipulte glance and i have the same errors | 21:53 |
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AgorA | and initially, in devstack, you have an image no ? | 21:53 |
AgorA | preconfigured, ready to run ? | 21:53 |
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AgorA | i tried devstack but i want to try to install it from scratch, to see how it works | 21:55 |
Lumiere | that's my understanding, but I don't have any time working through it | 21:55 |
* Lumiere works more frontend | 21:55 | |
AgorA | So, if advise me to try devstack, i guessthe best OS to start is Ubuntu ? | 21:59 |
Lumiere | ubuntu is the distro that openstack is developed on | 22:00 |
AgorA | okay | 22:00 |
AgorA | it's very hard to install it on Debian ? | 22:00 |
Lumiere | no idea | 22:02 |
AgorA | hum okay | 22:02 |
AgorA | thank for helping me | 22:02 |
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zykes- | :o | 22:25 |
zykes- | AgorA: I tink it's just as easy on debian | 22:25 |
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AgorA | zykes-: i don't know but i can say that keystone commands in the official doc are not the same as those in the packet from the debian repository | 22:51 |
zykes- | k | 22:54 |
zykes- | maybe outdated then | 22:54 |
zykes- | AgorA: go for ubuntu instad? | 22:54 |
AgorA | yes, wainting debian Wheezy in stable ... | 22:55 |
zykes- | :o | 22:56 |
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agonella | <agonella> Hello, I`m trying to use the api.openstack.org, but I`m facing some problems. I can get the token http://localhost:5000/v2.0/tokens and then use the token generated to get the tenants(http://localhost:5000/v2.0/tenants). But I CAN NOT use this token to get the list of servers(http://locahost:8774/v1.1/openstack/servers), I received the error "Unauthorized (401) - Unauthorized". | 23:46 |
agonella | ANY IDEA OF THE PROBLEM? | 23:46 |
agonella | <agonella> Using the devstack for tests :) | 23:46 |
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