Saturday, 2012-04-21

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uvirtbotNew bug: #986462 in openstack-ci "Please add git changelog to tarballs." [Undecided,New]
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jvargashi. I see there is the Swift project, but is there an initiative or something like amazon EBS ?03:43
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cryptographrixjvargas: See Openstack Volume06:57
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zykes-was quantum_auth_token remove ?11:16
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burhancan someone explain in layman's terms -- how exactly is openstack different from say vmware's own virtual machine management system?11:19
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burhancan someone explaint o me in layman's terms - how is openstack different from vmware's server management tools?11:36
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Spirilisburhan: it doesn't cost an arm and a leg, it directly supports cloud architectures based around stuff like Amazon EC2.11:43
SpirilisOther than that I'm not familiar enough with vmware's tools to know which features they've added in the past few years...11:44
burhanbut don't you need a vmware server in order to use openstack?11:44
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burhanI mean, where would it create the virtual machines?11:44
nicolas2bburhan : openstack link with an hypervisor to launch the VM11:46
nicolas2bthe hypervisor can be xen, kvm, quemy (or soon hyper-v)11:47
nicolas2bthe admin of instance you made in vmware, you make it in (for now) horizon dashboard or nova cli11:47
burhanso how do you add more sources to openstack?11:48
nicolas2bwith openstack instead of one hypervisor, you can have many different (in different server) for several need (ie : one with lxc for "small" footprint, one with hyper-v for windows VM)11:48
nicolas2bsource ?11:49
nicolas2byou mean image of server (like AWS ami ?)11:49
burhanno, a bit more basic than that. So I understand that I need a server running openstack which will manage another server that will host the virtual machines.11:49
burhanthis server that will host the vms can be any of the supported hypervisors (vmware, xen, kvm, etc.)11:50
nicolas2byes, in fact it can all be in the same server11:50
burhanbut how do I .. add more resources ... openstack? So I have two "host" servers, one is xen the other vmware?11:50
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nicolas2bit can be a configuration, each server is called a compute node11:51
nicolas2bwith a specific capability (=> an available hypervisor)11:51
burhancan a machine span more than one node?11:51
nicolas2bi don't think so, but each node can run as many VM as the memeroy/cpu/storage allow it11:52
nicolas2bin fact a machine is a node11:53
burhanso I cannot pool resources? So say I need a machine image that requires 16 GB of RAM, and I have 8GB on one node, and 8 on another, I cannot combine the nodes?11:53
nicolas2bI my understanding, no, but check with people who have OS in prod11:54
russellbthat is correct, you can not do that11:55
nicolas2bhere is some example of architecture :
zynzelburhan: and in vmware you can 'mix' resources from many host machine in one vm?11:55
* nicolas2b is also curious to know if it's possible in a product11:55
zynzeli dont think so, even if this is bloody slow.11:56
zynzelassume you have ethernet 10GB between hosts11:57
zynzelddr3 ram can use ~20GB...11:57
zynzelso you have bootleneck in lan.11:57
zynzeland if you use infiniban for example, cheaper is buying big server with XXX GB Ram and dont use virtualization.11:58
zynzelin my opinion ;)11:58
burhanhrmm, that document helped. So if I understand - you get a box, install some hypervisor on it - install nova-compute on it, and that adds it to the available pool of compute nodes.11:59
burhanthen you do the same thing for disk storage?11:59
zynzelburhan: this depends what you need.12:00
zynzelopenstack have many component, and you dont need all of it.12:00
burhanwell right now what I am looking for is a way to easily launch machines from templates - without having to pay for vmware :)12:01
zynzelburhan: so you need nova-compute, nova-network and nova-volume (persistent storage for vm)12:03
burhanon a side note, what is used to generate the documentation site?12:03
zynzeland services to link all components (nova-api, nova-scheduler, mysql, rabbitmq, glance)12:04
zynzelhave a look :) this is scarry only on first look :)12:04
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nicolas2b(important note : the storage  will evolve in the next 6 month)12:12
nicolas2bstorage => nova-volume12:12
zynzelnicolas2b: any blueprint for changes?12:12
russellbburhan: the docs are generated from
nicolas2bnot yet in believe because it was one of the topic discussed last week in the summit (I was not there sadly)12:13
russellbso, it's docbook based.  i'm not sure the specific tools used to generate the html version you find on though12:13
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zynzelnicolas2b: maybe you know about plans with zones? ;)12:16
russellbwhat about it12:16
zynzelin stable essex zone code was removed, and i cant find any info about it12:17
russellbthe replcaement is still a work in progress, and is being referred to as "cells"12:17
zynzelyea, but any blueprint how this should work?12:18
zynzelim going to build second zone in our deployment and cant find anything usefull12:18
nicolas2bI can't say anything better than russellb12:18
russellbnope.  but the main dev on cells said he'd try to get some docs up soon..12:18
russellbwell it's not ready yet afaik..12:19
zynzelwe probably use availability_zone code for that12:19
zynzelchange nova-volume code to supports availability_zone, and build mirror of our first deployment12:20
zynzelwith loadbalance for rabbit and mysql12:20
zynzeland *-api12:21
burhanrussellb: but how are they displayed? The script that is running on docs?12:23
russellbburhan: there are a lot of tools out there for rending docs in different formats from docbook format ... i'm not sure what they are using though12:23
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DigitalFluxHi Folks12:49
DigitalFluxDoes the Essex release support running multiple hypervisors (on multiple nova-compute nodes) within the same nova installation ?12:50
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nicolas2byes, you specifiy it on the nova-conf file12:57
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DigitalFluxnicolas2b: good to know12:58
DigitalFluxnicolas2b: Do i have any options when launching an instance from the API so specify whether i want this instance as an ESX VM or a KVM one ?12:59
zykes-anyone using quantum ?12:59
DigitalFluxnicolas2b: assuming that i'll run ESX & KVM across my nova installation ..12:59
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nicolas2bzykes : mee, I try12:59
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nicolas2bDigitalFlux : I'm not sure, but mayble look for the scheduler function12:59
nicolas2bIt choose the right compute node depending on parameter, maybe hypervisor is one of them13:00
nicolas2bzykes : In fact, I try using because VM doesn't launch13:00
DigitalFluxnicolas2b: okie, will take a look at that, but having heterogeneous hypervisors under the same nova cloud is not tricky or anything right ? just straight forward nova.conf configuration ?13:01
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nicolas2bfrom what I understand, yes. but if you try to migrate VM, keep in mind the hypervisor used13:01
DigitalFluxnicolas2b: you're talking about live migration, right ?13:02
nicolas2beven, "cold" one, if you have microsoft vm, I believe not all hypervisor can reboot it13:02
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DigitalFluxnicolas2b: I see, there is a difference in image disk format too ?13:03
nicolas2bbut those question are on the limit of my knowledge, so do not take only my word13:03
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DigitalFluxnicolas2b: no worries :), you're more than helpful13:03
DigitalFluxnicolas2b: Any ideas if there is differences in the image formats ? like i can use a KVM disk image stored in glance to launch an ESX VM ?13:04
nicolas2bsorry, no idea13:04
DigitalFluxnicolas2b: Thanks :)13:05
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VivekVCnijaba: Are you around ?13:12
* nicolas2b AFK13:22
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zykes-anyone here tested Ryu ?13:30
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nijabaVivekVC: hello14:12
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uvirtbotNew bug: #986501 in swift "No module named middleware.healthcheck" [Undecided,New]
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* nicolas2b is back15:51
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zykes-anyone here got Quantum working with Horizon ?16:50
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nicolas2bthe code to show quantum in horizon is still in review, i try it and it display nothing.17:02
nicolas2bI need to get in touch with the author17:03
nicolas2byeah, I know17:04
nicolas2bdo you are able to boot VM with quantum ?17:04
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zykes-I thought it included Quantum support nicolas2b ?17:21
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nicolas2byou mean horizon ?17:22
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nicolas2bso not yet, code here :
nicolas2b(I'm not the author)17:41
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zykes-right before I deploy horizon trunk instead then :p17:42
zykes-Why release Horizon without support for it :(17:43
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nicolas2bbecause quantum is not yet an official project, and it's code is changing17:54
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nicolas2bbut you know the drill, i you really want it, try to do it ;-)17:55
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zykes-guess I can just DL the code and install it ;p17:57
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zykes-nicolas2b: you gonna run quantum or ?18:23
nicolas2bzykes : "old" method of nova-network : flatmanager, flatdhcpmanager, vlanmanager18:24
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zykes-you gonna run horizon nicolas2b ?18:47
nicolas2bI got it running, yes18:47
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zykes-nicolas2b: with quantum or ?18:58
nicolas2byou can't manage network in horizon (quantum or plain network)18:59
zykes-nicolas2b: without the review stuff no ;p18:59
nicolas2bbut all the components works (container, images, instance)18:59
zykes-but IF i make a new pkg which is "patched"19:00
zykes-then it's another deal ;p19:00
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nicolas2bI apply the patch, and I still can't succeed to manage network :-(19:07
zykes-lemme try19:09
richardraseleyGood afternoon.19:10
zykes-so wazzup ?19:16
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zykes-doh nicolas2b, the CLI tools for quantum isn't gonna work with keystone anyways ;p19:22
nicolas2bin fact, if you link nova and quantum (with nova.conf) nova-network call automatically quantum19:22
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zykes-I know nicolas2b19:24
zykes-automatically call it how? For creating networks ?19:24
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nicolas2byes, with
zykes-floating as well or ?19:27
nicolas2bI don't tink so19:27
zykes-so basically I think quantum keystone is currently borked19:28
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nicolas2bhighly possible, quantum is still WIP19:30
zykes-or rather speaking the cli tools are bokred19:31
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nicolas2bzykes : check the exercise to see quantum network creation and vm boot with those network19:34
zykes-nicolas2b: excercise ?19:39
nicolas2bin devstack project, exercises dir19:39
nicolas2bzykes- : I thought you was using it19:40
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ChammmmmIs the state of openstack swift spring 2012 conference available anywere as video or slides?19:51
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Matt1So looking at using openstack for a project soon is there a way of putting object storawge and compute on one server without using sererate vm's for them?20:03
nicolas2bMAtt1 : yes, install on the bare-metal server (if you can)20:04
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nicolas2bMatt1 : or on the same VM, you can find doc about that under the title 'openstack one node install'20:05
Matt1What so you can install compute and object storage on the same host os?20:05
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nicolas2bjust check that the server git enough power (cpu, ram, available hard drive)20:07
Matt1What I kinda want to do is not only have one node but use a few racks full of single servers to host compute and object storage on the same server rather than run storage servers and compute servers seperatly20:08
nicolas2babout the storage, you will need hard drive for 4 things : images storage, instance running storage, nova-volume (persistent storage in VM), swift (object) storage20:08
Matt1yea looking at dual socket 16 physical core 32gb ram servers with 12 3tb hard disks plus a boot disk20:09
nicolas2bjust what I need, you can mail me one ? ;-)20:09
Matt1hehe will have a butt load of excess compute power first couple of months. we need about 3PB of object storage and around 1000 core of proc power so i can set this up with object storage and compute with a single host os (obviously each with thier own network port) and run this with hundreds of computers in a cloud type config ?20:12
nicolas2bin theory, you can run all in one node, but for what you need, I may only advice on several servers20:13
Matt1.. as all i can see is how to set up a cloud with only one sever (with object storage and compute ) but not how to have object storage and compute on a server but still run teh same sort of cloud that rackspace might even though they segregate object storage and compute onto different boxes20:14
nicolas2bwhen you got all installed, you got your cloud like rackspace20:15
zykes-nicolas2b: you know of Melange is working for essex ?20:16
nicolas2bzykes- : +/- the same result as quantum20:16
Matt1awesome so is there any documentation on configuring like this ?  we currently run a very different clustering system at the moment20:16
nicolas2bi don't know, as for people at dell/HP/ubuntu (some are on IRC), they have cloud running with openstack20:18
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Matt1What sort of network gear are people putting in thier clouds is anyone using 10Gbit per server?20:37
zMatt1: well AWS have public info stating they have EC2 instances with 10GbE connections20:39
zykes-Matt1: yeah i think some people use 10g (hpc) f ex20:41
Matt1Yep AWS have used 10G/server for new gear for a wile now but im' just wandering what sort of traffic people are actually seeing on the public/private network for object storage my math says with replecation we will need about 5G/server20:41
Matt1But 10G network gear is basically 8x 1g stuff20:41
zMatt1: I'm not aware of many folks doing the 'all in one' model because a lot of workloads benefit greatly from fast I/O performance on ephemeral storage20:42
zMatt1: power efficiency kicks in with 8GbE vs 10GbE though. More ports. More power. More switches. More config.20:42
Matt1Yea but as my calcs say even at worst 5G is needed it would be the two internal nics plus a 4 port gig-E card giving 6G a server which is still plenty bandwidth wise. And it is a load cheap to do that but 10G is tempting as lower power/lower maintance and longer life (will probably have to move to 10G before the 1G switches start failing on us)20:45
zEven at 6xGbE over a 300-node cluster that is 1800 ports of TOR - now you want to factor in bisection bandwidth - what choke can you take on uplinks?20:46
Matt1"I'm not aware of many folks doing the 'all in one' model because a lot of workloads benefit greatly from fast I/O performance on ephemeral storage" what do you mean people are using compute and a San ? rather than compute and object or block storage?20:46
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zIf you expect each server to be doing ~5Gbps then your ports are at 80% so even a 2:1 choke would be painful. Uplink congestion.20:47
zI know that Rackspace have stated they have SAN in the mixture. Point was more I don't know many people colocating Nova/Swift.20:49
Matt1Bi section is no big deal Diverse dark fiber ring each fibre has 16*10g so 640Gigabit of intra site bandwidth at each site and bi section at a given site is basically non blocking (48 GE ports on 4*10G uplinks)20:49
Matt1I don't know why people arn't coloing nova/swift it makes massive sense cost wise as with compute chasis you have hard disk space and ports not bing used and at storage nodes you have compute power not bieng used20:51
zSee previous note about I/O capabilities of your Compute chassis being used by instances, and thus, not being available for Swift without performance degradation.20:52
zykes-win 3820:52
zynzelMatt1: on compute node you should use fast ssd drives (as z says for fast i/o performance on ephemeral storage)20:52
zynzeland swift is not for fast io :)20:52
zReally depends on your usage case though. Every deployment is different.20:52
Matt1No OFC swift is not for fast I/o thats what we have SANs for. However for each node it will as above have 12 disks and 16 cores just the pure i/o of 12 disks is huge compared to 2 or 4. So as I/O on swift will not be huge the spare I/O can go to compute.20:55
LumiereMatt1: how are you planning to raid though20:55
zSplitting things out isn't really a huge penalty. Based on your requirements (3PB, 1000 cores) you could do that in 6 racks or so if you really wanted.20:55
Matt1win 38?20:55
zOptimise your Swift systems - you don't need a 12-core monster. Bandwidth needs are different. Think about proxies too, how many do you need, etc?20:56
zykes-Matt1: I can't you just use quad cores with 8 gb mem for storage boxes ?20:57
Matt1initially it was going to be a raid 6 colume however we coudl have say 4 disks as 10 or 15k in hardware raid 10 for the compute to use and teh other 8 disks for the swift to use20:57
zLong and short is your question about "Is it possible?" would be a 'Yes'. Look at DevStack to see how it accomplishes it for ideas, and as to "Is it a good idea?" well IMO not something I'd do however it depends on your exact situation :)20:57
Matt1Because our compute nodes we would buy would have spare compute capacity and spare disk slots20:58
Matt1@Z a 4u chasis with 24 bays and a quad/mobo/ram/network ect is not much less than TWO amd dell R515 with 12 bays and 16 cores21:00
zykes-Matt1: it's stupid to have a dual cpu21:00
zykes-for that I think21:00
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zykes-Matt1: concidered supermiccro ?21:01
zI don't know anything about the Dell systems. Sorry.21:01
Matt1Proxies are no big deal Will just pull a few r410's out of stock and add in network cards21:01
Matt1the 4u box was supermicro.21:02
zDensity using 4U systems will likely be somewhat suboptimal.21:02
zBut again; this is a business exercise - is it an internal datacenter? External? What's the cost for power, space, etc?21:02
Matt1? as in compute or disk density?21:02
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zykes-Matt1: < supermicro ref21:03
Matt1Business exercise, power and space are expensive (london) hence why it's so much  more efficient to use 2u boxes with compute and storage21:03
zmost of the larger colo facilities in London are *not* modern, and are in demand :)21:04
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zpower per square foot in Telehouse, most of the Telecity facilities and even GlobalSwitch is pathetically low21:05
zykes-for storage Matt1 get Supermicro 4U (Will take 24 drives pr box)21:05
zykes-or Dell boxes in 2U21:05
zso you may be right, 4U servers are no great penalty.21:06
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zykes-for compute you can do Dell R415 or R51521:06
Matt1Urm we have a 6 rack cage in LHC (telstra) 3 racks in THW (will expand to 5 or 6 racks if project goes ahead) and a rack in cogent london (again will expand to 5/6) all of these are 6kw racks21:08
z6kW = pathetically low :)21:08
* z smiles.21:08
WormManooo, 10 whole servers per rack21:09
z4U amd quad will be ~600W (if not a bit more) with 12xLFF21:09
zso yeah, stick 10 in a rack with a pair of TORs and you're done21:10
Matt1Ok you havent been in other london facility next door have you? :P Telecity has some racks limited to 4a (1kw) a rack and some 2kw racks. Telehouse north and telehouse west are between 1-2kw a rack too as are global switch21:11
zI am aware of this :)21:11
Matt1*east even21:11
zlast time I talked to Telehouse about THW they could go up to 10kW with their ridiculous/stupid Hitachi water-cooled racks21:11
zbut that was in $job[-1] so it may have improved since. I know they won't be able to take THW to capacity until after the Olympics due to power being reserved for that.21:12
Matt1yep they can but at twice the price per rack as our 6kw racks - go figure21:12
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AgorAi want to try open stack nova (with is family keystone and glance, of course )21:49
AgorAi try to install it few time on debian (sid release)21:49
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AgorAand with the 2012.1 branch of the git repositories of the different projects21:50
AgorAi start with keystone then glance21:50
AgorAbut i fail every time with errors like : "no glance endpoint in the keystone answer" or "no authorized"21:51
AgorAand i read a lot of docs ...21:51
LumiereAgorA: you might want to try devstack?21:51
Lumiereat least as a starting point21:51
AgorAi try it21:51
AgorAand i think it doesn't work21:52
LumiereI don't know tons about it all, but I do know that is what usually people recommend to start from21:52
AgorAi install it21:52
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AgorAbut i try to manipulte glance and i have the same errors21:53
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AgorAand initially, in devstack, you have an image no ?21:53
AgorApreconfigured, ready to run ?21:53
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AgorAi tried devstack but i want to try to install it from scratch, to see how it works21:55
Lumierethat's my understanding, but I don't have any time working through it21:55
* Lumiere works more frontend21:55
AgorASo, if advise me to try devstack, i guessthe best OS to start is Ubuntu ?21:59
Lumiereubuntu is the distro that openstack is developed on22:00
AgorAit's very hard to install it on Debian ?22:00
Lumiereno idea22:02
AgorAhum okay22:02
AgorAthank for helping me22:02
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zykes-AgorA: I tink it's just as easy on debian22:25
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AgorAzykes-: i don't know but i can say that keystone commands in the official doc are not the same as those in the packet from the debian repository22:51
zykes-maybe outdated then22:54
zykes-AgorA: go for ubuntu instad?22:54
AgorAyes, wainting debian Wheezy in stable ...22:55
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agonella<agonella> Hello, I`m trying to use the, but I`m facing some problems. I can get the token http://localhost:5000/v2.0/tokens and then use the token generated to get the tenants(http://localhost:5000/v2.0/tenants). But I CAN NOT use this token to get the list of servers(http://locahost:8774/v1.1/openstack/servers), I received the error "Unauthorized (401) - Unauthorized".23:46
agonella<agonella> Using the devstack for tests :)23:46
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