Wednesday, 2014-04-02

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flwangflaper87: hey hey08:13
flaper87flwang: yo yo08:13
flwangflaper87: how are you? superman08:13
flaper87flwang: I'm doing great, what about you?08:14
flwangflaper87: as for the mail loop about rename Marconi, is it a joke or a serious request?08:14
flwangflaper87: i'm good08:14
flaper87flwang: man, you help me keep my self-estime high, thanks a lot :)08:14
flaper87flwang: oh that's a joke. Yday was April's fools day08:14
flwangI know it's fools day, but just confirm, hehe08:14
flaper87flwang: yeah, just a joke08:15
flwangflaper87: ok08:15
flaper87flwang: btw, thanks for working on the client+keystone exampel08:15
flwangflaper87: sure, I'm your assistant on Marconi client :)08:16
flwangflaper87: addressed your comments
flaper87flwang: awesome :D08:17
flaper87so, I'll now seriously complete the cli support08:18
flaper87at least, the first part of it so that folks can help me extending it08:18
flwangwhat's your mean about the 'cli support'?08:19
flwangOpenStack common client?08:19
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openstackgerritFlavio Percoco proposed a change to openstack/marconi: Don't fork marconi-server unless USE_SCREEN=False
flaper87kgriffs|afk: malini_afk ^09:12
openstackgerritFlavio Percoco proposed a change to openstack/marconi: Don't fork marconi-server unless USE_SCREEN=False
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chandan_kumarflaper87, heya!10:50
flaper87chandan_kumar: yo10:50
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kgriffsflaper87: o/13:06
flaper87kgriffs: yo yo13:06
flaper87marconi-server fix:
flaper87damn, not that one13:07
flaper87this one13:07
flaper87kgriffs: but read that gist anyway, I want your feedback13:07
flaper87kgriffs: how are you doing?13:07
kgriffsactually, I'm feeling kinda crummy today. I think I may have to take a sick day.13:08
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flaper87kgriffs: damn, sad to hear that :(13:09
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saikrishnaHi All, we have this bug#1293114  in new state since long. Its a dependency for mysql connector, it gets resolved if we manually install the package. should we mark the bug closed? or should we update the dependency and fix the bug. Thanks.13:10
saikrishnaif it is to update the dependency. I can do that. :)13:10
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kgriffsflaper87: nice gist, glad to see those new features landing in 2.613:11
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kgriffsflaper87: patch LGTM13:12
mpanettafeel better kgriffs13:12
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* flaper87 shakes malini's bed and wakes her up13:20
vkmcHey ya :)13:21
vkmcflaper87, Maybe you could try with coffee13:22
flaper87vkmc: like throwing hot coffee in her face?13:22
flaper87vkmc: that's mean13:22
* flaper87 is now afraid of vkmc13:22
mpanettaAww poor Malini.13:23
flaper87malini_afk: say something ^^^^^^13:23
mpanettaShe isn't here yet flaper8713:23
vkmcflaper87, Oh please no... haha, I meant leaving a good cup of coffee near her13:23
flaper87I can't keep defending you while you're asleep13:23
flaper87malini_afk: ^13:23
vkmcflaper87, The smell will do the rest of the work13:23
flaper87mpanetta: why do people in ATL sleep so much ?13:24
* flaper87 is in the mood of messing with folks in ATL13:24
mpanettaDonno.  Must be the polution :P13:24
flaper87vkmc: yeah yeah, no try to change what you said13:24
vkmcflaper87, Those are things that robot cannot understand13:24
mpanettaWe can't all be robots like you flaper87. :P13:24
flaper87vkmc: good point13:24
mpanettaOne robot to rule them all :P13:24
flaper87mpanetta: that's what you think. Wait a couple of years and you'll see what will happen to the mankind13:25
flaper87mpanetta: do you think I'm dumb enough to tell you what will happen?13:26
flaper87mpanetta: it's not skynet anyway13:26
flaper87damn, I shouldn't have said that13:26
mpanettaHah!  Now we have you!  Oh wait...13:26
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* flaper87 wonders where Cindy is13:34
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alcabreraGood morning! :D13:35
vkmcMorning alcabrera! :)13:35
alcabreravkmc: hey! How are you?13:35
saikrishnagood Morning alcabrera :)13:36
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flaper87alcabrera: goooooooooood morning13:36
vkmcalcabrera, Everything going well, and you?13:36
alcabreraEverything is going *awesomely*.13:37
alcabreraI learned last night that OSCON accepted my talk proposa.13:38
vkmcThat's awesome :D :D :D13:38
alcabreraThanks! :D13:38
vkmcAre those presentations going to be streamed?13:40
sriram1congrats alcabrera13:40
vkmcOr don't know yet?13:40
alcabreraas far as I know, vkmc...13:41
alcabreraI don't think oscon streams their stuff.13:41
alcabreraThey usually sell the videos post conference as bundles.13:41
saikrishna congrats alcabrera13:41
openstacksaikrishna: Error: "!" is not a valid command.13:41
vkmcBoo... well13:42
alcabrerasaikrishna, sriram1: thanks!13:42
flaper87alcabrera: do they? I thought those videos were recorded and then put on-line13:42
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alcabreraWhat I'll probably end up doing is finding some way to run a pre-conference version of "The Case for Haskell", record it, and make that available.13:42
vkmcI'll ask you for details later then13:42
alcabreraflaper87: maybe! Maybe I'm thinking of Strata and Fluence.13:43
alcabreraAlso by O'Reilly. :P13:43
alcabreraflaper87: good point with that link13:43
alcabreravkmc: yeah, I suspect the videos will be made available shortly after13:43
alcabrerathanks for the correction, flaper87!13:43
vkmcalcabrera, Ok, so you won't be flooded with questions then :P13:44
vkmcThanks for the link flaper8713:44
alcabreraflood me anyway. :P13:44
flaper87np :D13:44
alcabreraI love geeking out over the subject of haskell13:44
vkmcI'm curious about logic programming... I have some experience with it, but I'm unaware of its power13:46
flaper87alcabrera: speaking of geeking out about Haskell. Mind sharing what your understanding of GADTs is ?13:47
alcabreravkmc: logic programming is equivalent in power to functional programming by the "proposition as types" duality. It's pretty cool. I've tinkered with prolog and I'm watching Mercury Lang in this realm.13:48
alcabreraflaper87: sure thing13:48
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alcabreraflaper87: so I'm actually very weak with GADTs, but my understanding is that their most common practical use is to encode phantom types, which allow you to simplify the logic at compile time for certain code paths.13:49
alcabreraSimon Peyton Jones had a great talk explaining them and Yaron Minsky had another one showing how to use them13:50
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flaper87alcabrera: mmh, I think I haven't seen that talk. Do you have a link?13:53
alcabreraflaper87: yminsky's talk -, spj's talk: <searching>13:53
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vkmcalcabrera, That's really cool... I worked in several IA projects with Prolog, wasn't aware of Mercury Lang though (looks good!)13:55
flaper87alcabrera: yeah, that's quite my understanding too.13:55
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* flaper87 got distracted13:55
flaper87alcabrera: there were some discussions around GADTs and HKT in #rust-internal the other day13:55
flaper87it was quite difficult to have them before but it may be feasible now13:55
flaper87brb, meeting13:56
flaper87alcabrera: malini pls :)13:56
alcabreraHKT are super important for supporting things like Maybe|Either|etc13:56
alcabreraflaper87: catch up later! :)13:56
alcabreravkmc: cool! I recommend following @MercuryLang on Twitter. They tend to post an interesting Tweet every few days. What I'm really digging about mercurylang is that it's statically typed, so it's a bit easier to grow a  program than with Prolog.13:57
maliniflaper87: IL'll try tht patch on devstack real quick13:58
maliniIL'll = I will :D13:58
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vkmcalcabrera, Cool, I'll follow them :) And why you say it is easier?14:02
alcabreravkmc: as with Haskell, the compiler can catch really silly errors at compile time. It's the trouble with dynamically-typed/strictly-interpreted languages - you don't know you've mispelled Execption until the program hits that branch. ;)14:05
alcabrerathough it goes deeper than that14:05
vkmcalcabrera, Oh you mean by safety reasons :)14:05
alcabrerathere was a really good blog post I found on this topic not too long ago14:06
alcabrerathat one can encode a game of tic tac toe14:06
alcabrerasuch that if we violate some basic things in our coding (each player takes one turn, then it is the others player's turn, etc.), the compiler will prevent it from compiling14:07
alcabreravkmc: ^^14:07
alcabrerafound in!
vkmcalcabrera, I wonder how the compiler can do that14:08
vkmcalcabrera, Thanks for the link14:09
vkmcalcabrera, I suspect that the main discussion in that area will be if correctness worths the amount of resources required14:17
alcabreragood point, vkmc14:18
alcabrerafor doing simple things, like encoding "No value should ever be a Null", the cost is very low14:18
alcabrerafor proving things like, "A vector should never be longer than 16 elements", the costs are a little higher14:19
alcabreraI've found that proving many powerful, simple things comes at a very low cost14:19
alcabreraand of course, proving whether a program terminates is next to impossible. ;)14:20
alcabrera(or in the case of servers, whether they make progress)14:20
vkmcSo... it could be possible to ensure the correctness of the program by performing many simple controls14:20
vkmcYeah... if you figure it out let me know and get ready to receive your Turing award haha14:21
alcabreravkmc: for learning about the extent of things that are fairly easy to prove, I recommend watching yminsky's talk that I linked flaper87 to earlier. A good quote from that video is, "Make illegal states unrepresentable".14:24
alcabreraand by prove, I mean, that the compiler catches it. :)14:25
* alcabrera is the most off-topic, ever14:26
vkmcalcabrera, Haha14:26
* flaper87 is mad because this guys are having a cool conversation without him14:26
* vkmc bookmarks 14:26
* flaper87 likes to be off-topic14:26
mpanettapop tarts!14:26
* flaper87 focuses on the meeting14:27
alcabreraflaper87: :D14:27
alcabrerampanetta: yes!14:27
vkmcmpanetta, +214:27
mpanettaI prefer to be incremented :P14:27
mpanettaBut don't decrement me bro! :P14:27
flaper87one more thing: These are the comments that make us geeks:
sriram-(-1000) .. heh14:28
alcabreraflaper87: lol14:28
mpanettaBut not sorting algorithms? heh14:28
vkmcI bet he have the Art of Computer Programming in his night stand14:29
alcabreraI need to check out AoCP. :P14:30
alcabreraLast I looked, I felt my math was too weak14:30
alcabreraThough I did start in the middle, with seminumerical algorithms14:30
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vkmcOh it's so hard to keep up with those -.-14:32
vkmcOne page can take you a whole afternoon14:33
vkmcAnd that is when I get distracted with FFVII14:34
alcabreraoh yes. I think next time I give a shot at AoCP, I'm following through with (a) friend(s)14:34
alcabreraOne could organize a meetup group around those tomes!14:34
alcabrerakinda like @papers_we_love eventually did. :)14:34
vkmcIt may be helpful :)14:35
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maliniflaper87: ping14:55
flaper87malini: kinda pong14:57
maliniflaper87: :D14:57
maliniI checked your patch against devstack & it doesnt work :(14:57
maliniWe probably need to find/ add a real env variable14:57
flaper87malini: mmh, that's weird, I tested it this morning :/14:59
flaper87did you set  USE_SCREEN=False ?15:00
flaper87or USE_SCREEN=false ?15:00
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maliniflaper87: yes15:06
maliniits in localrc15:06
flaper87malini: which one ?15:06
flaper87it's important15:06
flaper87The check is done on False15:06
flaper87not false15:06
flaper87malini: USE_SCREEN=False or USE_SCREEN=false ?15:07
flaper87try with False15:07
maliniLet me try False15:07
flaper87I'll add the check on both15:07
flaper87but devstack uses False|True15:08
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maliniAnita Kuno sent an email y'day to the dev ML..Marconi does not have a PTL candidate yet15:41
maliniSomebody act fast or we'll have Hitler ruling us soon15:42
alcabreraoh my15:42
alcabreramalini: good point15:43
alcabrerano one has... stepped up?15:43
alcabreraI'm a little surprised.15:43
mpanettaI thought kgriffs|afk was PTL?15:44
maliniWe might be the most controversial program in Openstack :D15:44
malinimpanetta: PTL elections happen every cycle..We dont have a candidate yet15:44
mpanettaOh ok15:44
mpanettawell, it should be alcabrera you or flaper87, clearly :P15:45
* flaper87 wants kgriffs|afk to raise his hand :D :D15:45
malinikgriffs|afk probably forgot & is out sick today15:45
malini'Talk amongst yourselves and communicate something to the -dev mailing15:46
malinilist by the end of the nomiation period (about 48 hours from now) April15:46
malini4, 05:59 UTC.'15:46
maliniWe still have time15:46
flaper87malini: indeed :D15:47
mpanettaEvery time someone says indeed I think of Teal'C from Stargate...15:47
mpanettarandom comment of the day :P15:47
maliniWe can wait for kgriffs|afk to come back or proxy for him, unless somebody else is also interested in being the PTL15:48
alcabrerampanetta: yay, Teal'C!15:48
alcabrerampanetta: I love that guy.15:49
alcabreramy favorite of the Jaffas. :)15:49
flaper87lets wait for kgriffs|afk15:49
alcabreraI won't be taking on the PTL role for reasons known to most of you. ;)15:49
mpanettaIs it bad that I am anti-web UI? heh15:57
mpanettaI am such a CLI guy it is crazy...15:57
flaper87mpanetta: that makes it 2 of us16:01
mpanettaOh good, now I don't feel so crazy ;)16:03
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flaper87mpanetta: have you ever had dust on your mouse ?16:05
flaper87I had to clean it up the other day16:05
mpanettaNot yet I don't think16:05
maliniflaper87: I want to start working on a non test related task..Is there any bp you would suggest?16:06
alcabreraI second the CLI sentiment. UIs in general tend to drive me nuts if I'm making something. :P16:06
flaper87so, here's the picture: My desk is a complete mess, I've my laptop in a drawer under some books, black keyboard and display, lots of papers on my desk and my mouse is under those papers16:06
flaper87malini: did the marconi-server think work ?16:07
maliniflaper87: Yes!! Sorry I forgot to update16:07
alcabreramalini: +116:07
flaper87malini: so, I should probably add support for false too there16:07
flaper87malini: there are non-test tasks, lemme get something for ya'16:07
flaper87FWIW, we can start working on Juno stuff, the RC1 will be cut today16:07
maliniyayy !16:08
openstackgerritFlavio Percoco proposed a change to openstack/marconi: Don't fork marconi-server unless USE_SCREEN=False
flaper87after ^^^ lands16:08
flaper87malini: alcabrera ^^^^^16:08
alcabreragood to know that Juno work can start today16:09
alcabrerathat's awesome news!16:09
alcabrerafun times again16:09
malinib/w we still have tons of test stuff to do - new gate/check jobs, tempest, v1.1 functional tests ..wonder if we can get an OPW intern for part of these16:10
flaper87(lets not wait for jenkins, that patch was already tested several times and I did a minor change)16:10
flaper87malini: there are a couple of OPW and GSoC interns interested in hacking on marconi16:10
flaper87let's see what happens16:10
flaper87that one should be fun to work on16:11
alcabreraflaper87: -1, small improvement found. :)16:11
maliniflaper87: awesome ! I will start on tht16:12
flaper87alcabrera: +1 for that great comment16:12
alcabreramalini: have fun! That one is an awesome BP. :D16:12
maliniI am looking forward to something non-test16:13
openstackgerritFlavio Percoco proposed a change to openstack/marconi: Don't fork marconi-server unless USE_SCREEN=False
flaper87alcabrera: there you go ^^^16:13
flaper87malini: pick the bp16:14
flaper87as in, assign it to you16:14
maliniflaper87: I dont have an option to change the assignee16:14
alcabreraflaper87: +216:16
maliniflaper87: I am running ur latest patch against devstack16:16
alcabreramalini: hmm, I had that problem too when I was changed to core. :/16:16
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alcabreranot being able to assign BPs, etc.16:16
alcabreraI forgot what we had to do to fix that.16:16
flaper87damn, I hate launchpad so mach16:16
flaper87malini: pls, request access to
flaper87I'll approve it16:17
maliniflaper87: done16:17
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flaper87malini: done16:20
flaper87Have I said I hate launchpad ?16:20
maliniflaper87: Now I can assign me to the bp16:21
alcabrerathanks, flaper8716:22
alcabreramalini: you now have even more power!16:22
malinialcabrera: Yes!! now I can do real work ;)16:23
alcabreratime to go grab a desk lunch and catch up on reading16:27
alcabreraI've accumulated at least 20 tabs today, heh...16:28
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maliniflaper87: I must have done something wrong , when I said I can get marconi running with USE_SCREEN = False :-$16:39
maliniI cant get marconi running on devstack with USE_SCREEN False16:46
alcabreraUSE_SCREEN=False marconi-server16:47
maliniyeah :(16:48
maliniI probably had marconi-server running already, when I said it worked :-$16:48
maliniwill be back in 30 min16:50
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malininow really gone for 30 min17:06
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maliniI like this session for Ironic
maliniWe should probably do something similar - but maybe just an unconference18:25
alcabreraI feel like we might be accomplishing that very session via our meetup/hangout strategy, malini18:26
malinialcabrera: True18:26
malinithat reminds me , we never setup our Retro hangout18:27
alcabreraI'm torn between getting more feedback from the community as to what we need to graduate and getting feedback about future marconi designs18:27
alcabreraI thought we did...?18:27
alcabreraThis Thursday, at 1500UTC?18:27
malinioops..was tht the one I agreed to y'day ?18:28
malinialcabrera: I dont think we should consider the graduation / future design feedbacks as an either or18:28
maliniwe need both18:28
alcabreramalini: yup, that's what we agreed to yesterday. ;)18:29
alcabrerawe do need both18:29
alcabrerawe *do* have 4 slots18:29
maliniWe also need to get into the TC meeting for feedback on graduation strategy18:29 many things to do..I am missing Trello18:29
alcabrerahaha, yes...18:29
alcabreraand Trello keeps getting spiffier18:30
alcabrerait's faster now18:30
alcabreraand flatter18:30
alcabreraI've been using it with Jess to help with house hunting in Austin, TX18:30
malinialcabrera: it is FAST!!18:30
maliniI just logged in after a loong time18:30
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wirehead_I'm behind on emails.  But +9000 points for the Marconi to Macaroni name change.18:38
alcabrerawirehead_: haha, that was a fun topic.18:39
alcabrerait's hard to keep up with emails. 99.9% of the time I just delete the emails from openstack-dev.18:39
alcabrerabecause they're really like 30+ emails in one18:39
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cpallaresalcabrera: how is the house hunting going?18:44
cpallaresalcabrera: It's hard to find housing in Austin nowadays.18:44
alcabreracpallares: It's a little slow, since I only justa ccepted the new position yesterday. :)18:45
alcabreraI plan on visiting Austin, TX in May.18:45
cpallaresalcabrera: :D18:45
alcabreraTo do the proper scouting.18:45
cpallaresalcabrera: Congrats :)18:45
alcabreraThanks! :D18:46
alcabreraJess has looked up links for the past few weeks.18:46
alcabreraSo we have at least 10 to try out.18:46
cpallaresalcabrera: nice.18:46
cpallaresalcabrera: Austin has a shortage of housing :C18:47
alcabrerahmmm, that's good to know. :x18:47
cpallaresalcabrera: I liked using
cpallaresalcabrera: for finding places. Since it usually doesn't go through an agent.18:47
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alcabreracpallares: just shared it with Jess. :D18:59
alcabrerabe back later18:59
cpallaresalcabrera: awesome. I hope you find something!18:59
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* flaper87 back19:15
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maliniflaper87: We still have issues with sending marconi-server to background19:23
malinidoesnt start up in devstack19:24
flaper87malini: was that caused by my patch ?19:24
maliniflaper87: runs with marconi from master19:24
maliniflaper87: do you know if the devstack localrc variables get set as env variables?19:24
flaper87malini: AHHHHHHHHH damn, you may be right19:25
flaper87I think they're not19:25
flaper87crap, I didn't think of that19:25
maliniI tried searching for env variables in devstack, couldnt find anything we can use19:25
flaper87malini: so, we need to pass some argument19:26
flaper87I mean, CLI param19:26
malinihopefully something that 'looks like all other projects'19:26
malinisince we'll need tht change to be in devstack19:26
flaper87so, what about letting this patch land, cutting rc1 and fixing this issue in master ?19:27
flaper87We need this fix for devstack19:27
flaper87devstack pulls things down from master19:27
flaper87so, as long as we fix master we're find19:27
maliniwhat is the advantage of letting it land now?19:27
flaper87I just don't want to cut rc1 with this background behaviour being the default19:27
flaper87it's bad for people that want to test marconi19:27
malinifair enough19:28
flaper87malini: ok, it just needs your bless19:29
flaper87malini: mind putting the rational there?19:29
maliniWe should resurrect our old bug as a high priority item19:29
flaper87I mean, what we just said19:29
maliniLet me find tht bug & add it to the comments19:29
flaper87malini: or create a new one19:29
flaper87lets resurrect that one19:29
flaper87I agree19:29
malinifound it
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maliniflaper87: done
openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/marconi: Don't fork marconi-server unless USE_SCREEN=False
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maliniflaper87: mind if I assign to you?19:46
flaper87malini: hey, don't abuse your powers19:46
flaper87malini: kidding19:46
flaper87please do, before I forget to take it19:46
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maliniflaper87: you have it now..I am good at sharing the joy ;)19:49
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* flaper87 will now watch the video alcabrera shared20:07
flaper87alcabrera: we still have a pending discussion on type systems20:07
mpanettaTypes are useless, lets switch to perl :P20:11
mpanettaOr is that PHP...20:11
mpanettaBah both suck. So hard to decide.20:11
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alcabreraback. :P20:26
alcabrerampanetta: switch to any of: {perl, python, bash, ruby, php, c, c++, java} ;)20:27
alcabreraor for a friendlier experience: {scheme, racket, clojure}20:27
alcabreraflaper87: oh yes, let's run with it tomorrow. I'll do some reading on GADTs tonight so we can really dive deep tomorrow20:27
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flaper87alcabrera: awesome, lets do that! :D20:28
* flaper87 now watching the ML talk20:28
alcabreraI'm out for the night.20:29
alcabreraI hope you all have a lovely one!20:29
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openstackgerritJenkins proposed a change to openstack/python-marconiclient: Updated from global requirements
openstackgerritJoe Gordon proposed a change to openstack/marconi: Add specific doc build option and gate on warnings.
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openstackgerritJoe Gordon proposed a change to openstack/marconi: Dedup HACKING.rst and remove any pep8 or OpenStack hacking rules
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