Wednesday, 2014-07-09

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mfer#startmeeting openstack-sdk-php15:30
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul  9 15:30:30 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mfer. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:30
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-sdk-php)"15:30
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_sdk_php'15:30
mferWelcome. Please state your name along with any applicable association.15:30
mferMatt Farina, HP15:31
samchoiSam Choi, HP15:31
mfersamchoi i'll give it 2 more minutes and then call it if no one else shows up15:33
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samchoimfer: ok, maybe it would be worth discussing the status of next week's meeting as well?15:34
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mfersamchoi going to cancel next weeks meeting15:35
mferok, calling it.15:35
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:35
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul  9 15:35:24 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:35
openstackMinutes (text):
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tjones#startmeeting novabugscrub16:30
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul  9 16:30:22 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tjones. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:30
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'novabugscrub'16:30
tjoneshi anyone around?16:30
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thangplonely out here16:40
tjonesvery ;-)16:40
thangpnobody around16:40
tjonesim working through bugs which are old and undecided.16:41
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tjonesusing this i filter by not recently updated and in unknown state.  My feeling is if it has not been touched in 2 years it can be  set to incomplete and they can reopen if it is still an issue on juno16:42
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tjonesi've already triaged the new bugs - nothing exciting except a couple of gate issues which seem the same16:43
thangpdoes this include the latest ones?16:44
thangpthe list16:44
tjonesi ran it last night - so it's about 12 hours old16:44
thangpthe goal is to either close them out or assign them to someone?16:45
tjonesthat would be great - but there is a lot of cruft out there.  in looking at old undecided bugs i am trying to decrease the # of open bugs by closing things that are old and probably not relevant.16:46
tjonesthere are about 1100 total bugs16:47
thangp:P and it only keeps growing :)16:48
tjonesim thinking of removing wishlist and low from the list just to be able to focus everyone on a smaller # of issues16:48
thangpthat sounds good to me16:48
tjonesdo you think i should move this meeting to another time to get better attendance? or ??16:49
thangpit works for me...but this is the first time i showed up :)16:50
thangpusually, i browse the nova bug list to pick off something to fix16:50
thangpbut this list really helps16:50
tjonesgreat!  feel free to make suggestions on making it better/more useful16:51
thangphow should the list be divided up for anyone who wants to help out on this list? just pick off a category and go through the list?16:54
tjonesyes - if you wait about 5 minutes i'll update the list.  I'd concentrate on high prio bugs for now since there are so many.  but feel free to look over the undecided and see if you can help prioritize any of them.16:56
thangpsure will do16:56
tjonesthanks for helping!16:56
tjoneshave another meeting in 2 minutes so ending now.  thanks again!16:58
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul  9 16:58:52 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:58
openstackMinutes (text):
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thangpsee u next week16:58
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SumitNaiksatammandeep: vinay_yadhav ivar-lazzaro anil_rao cgoncalves: hi17:30
cgoncalvesSumitNaiksatam: howdy!17:31
mandeepSumitNaiksatam: hi17:31
SumitNaiksatamlets get started17:31
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SumitNaiksatam#startmeeting Networking Advanced Services17:31
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul  9 17:31:33 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:31
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SumitNaiksatam#announcements Juno specification submission deadline: July 10th, specification approval deadline: july 17th17:31
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SumitNaiksatamdougwig: hi17:32
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vinay_yadhavhow will the decision to approve be taken17:32
SumitNaiksatamvinay_yadhav: based on the reviews17:32
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vinay_yadhavok... All the +1s on TaaS is hidden in patch set 5 :)17:33
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marios_hi all17:33
SumitNaiksatamlets change the order a bit17:34
SumitNaiksatam#topic Service Chaining17:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Service Chaining (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)"17:34
regXboidid I miss the service chaining part?  I had a question there17:34
SumitNaiksatamregXboi: right on cue! :-)17:34
SumitNaiksatam#link #link
SumitNaiksatammandeep: there?17:34
mandeepSumitNaiksatam: I just updated the commit message as requested17:34
SumitNaiksatammandeep: thanks, i added a couple of comments as well17:35
SumitNaiksatamregXboi: your question?17:35
mandeepOtherwise I have addressed all the questions in the spec and added an example17:35
regXboiI was looking for horizon and heat impacts17:35
regXboididn't see them - wondering if i'm looking in the wrong place17:35
mandeepThe current BP does not address them, I was planning to add them as dependent BPs later17:36
SumitNaiksatammandeep: is a new bp really required for that?17:36
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cgoncalvesmandeep: I've not yet had the chance to read the latest spec rev. hope to read it and give some feedback by tomorrow17:36
mandeepI can add it to this BP, but I was not sure that we had time to get it done at that same time.17:36
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SumitNaiksatammandeep: i believe the CLI proposal will be required in this spec17:37
regXboiI guess I'm asking if we are scoping horizon/heat for Juno17:37
mandeepSumitNaiksatam: Is it Ok to merge updated for part of the BP (say chaining API + CLI before HEAT + GUI)?17:37
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mandeepSumitNaiksatam: CLI was planned.17:37
SumitNaiksatammandeep: but i agree heat/horizon can be separate proposals in those respective projects17:37
SumitNaiksatammandeep: yes, we will need CLI17:37
SumitNaiksatamregXboi: does that answer your question?17:38
LouisFmandeep: still unclear why there is a port in ServiceChainInstance17:38
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regXboiI read it as Heat/Horizon will be K17:38
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mandeepLouisF: Did you get to see the usage example?17:38
regXboiwhich is (afaik) Ok, just needed clarity17:38
mandeep(just updated today morning)17:38
regXboinow - am I reading it correctly :)17:39
mandeepregXboi: More like it is not committed for J, but we will try ...17:39
SumitNaiksatamregXboi: that is the most likely scenario, however we could probably have the horizon/heat ready in PoC form before K17:39
regXboiok... that works17:39
* cgoncalves notes SumitNaiksatam is reviewing BPs while chairing this meeting. great multi-tasker!17:39
mandeepSumitNaiksatam: Correct17:39
SumitNaiksatamsongole prasadv: you wanted to comment on the heat/horizon part?17:39
* regXboi goes back to working neutron documentation bugs17:40
SumitNaiksatamcgoncalves: :-)17:40
songoleSumitNaiksatam: we haven't thought about it yet17:40
LouisFmandeep: you mean USAGE WORKFLOW #4?17:40
* SumitNaiksatam thinks his sly monouvers have been exposed! :-P17:40
mandeepLouisF: Correct17:40
SumitNaiksatamsongole: okay17:40
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SumitNaiksatamsongole prasadv: you plan to take this up later though?17:41
LouisFmandeep: that does not explain how port is used17:41
songoleSumitNaiksatam: yes17:41
SumitNaiksatamsongole: ok17:41
mandeepAlso, see my comment on Cathy's question on patchset 7 (which that point was addressing)17:41
SumitNaiksatamin #link we have mandeep as owner for heat/horizon, songole you want to update that, if convenient, and provide a projected milestone?17:42
mandeepLouisF: The intent is not to prescribe how it is used, except that the semantics are defined as bump-in-the-wire "at that port"17:42
mandeepLouisF: The backend is free to do any implementation as long as it honors that semantic17:42
songoleSumitNaiksatam: okay17:42
SumitNaiksatammandeep: what is the reference impl planned for this?17:43
hemanthraviSumitNaiksatam: do we have until juno-3 to finish heat/horizon ?17:43
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: absolutely17:43
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: welcome back!17:43
mandeepSumitNaiksatam: It is based on the current FWaaS and VPNaaS17:44
SumitNaiksatammandeep: okay17:44
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mandeep(existing services based on the router ports)17:44
SumitNaiksatammandeep: is there a particular order for those two?17:44
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SumitNaiksatammandeep: i mean a particular order that we would plan to support as the ref impl17:44
mandeepSumitNaiksatam: Current plan was FW-VPN, but I need to investigate what the VPN service supports today17:45
SumitNaiksatammandeep: fair enough17:45
SumitNaiksatammandeep: is songole also working on this bp?17:45
songoleSumitNaiksatam, mandeep: what is the deadline for BP approval for Juno17:46
SumitNaiksatammandeep: and/or hemanthravi?17:46
mandeepSumitNaiksatam: Yes17:46
SumitNaiksatammandeep: if so it would be good to have them called out in the assignees17:46
mandeepsongole: Next week Thr17:46
SumitNaiksatammarios_: thanks, yes17:46
SumitNaiksatamthought i would prefer that we use july 17th as the deadline17:46
mandeepYes, we will update the assignments17:46
SumitNaiksatamsongole, hemanthravi: fine with that?17:47
songolemandeep: thanks17:47
SumitNaiksatamanyone else wants to help with the service chaining work, please reach out to mandeep17:47
SumitNaiksatamor me17:47
LouisFmandeep: i can help17:47
hemanthraviSumitNaiksatam: is this for a separate bp for heat/horizon?17:48
mandeepLouisF: OK17:48
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: for now, this is neutron but bleeds into other things as well17:48
SumitNaiksatamany more questions for mandeep?17:48
mandeephemanthravi: We can update this BP, if that makes it easier to manage17:48
SumitNaiksatami guess cathy is not around, she had questions before17:49
hemanthravimandeep: ok, that'll be better17:49
SumitNaiksatammandeep: any blockers at your end?17:49
SumitNaiksatammandeep: thanks for the update and revised spec, i think it reads very well!17:50
mandeepSumitNaiksatam: No we are OK now17:50
cgoncalvesmandeep: obviously I'm interested in the service chaining work. please let me know if I can be of any assistance to you on developing any part of the system17:50
SumitNaiksatam#topic Traffic steering17:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Traffic steering (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)"17:51
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mandeepcgoncalves: Will do. Thanks.17:51
SumitNaiksatamcgoncalves: thanks for the new rev17:51
SumitNaiksatamcgoncalves: there are some more comments17:51
cgoncalvesa new spec rev was submitted last friday17:51
cgoncalvessome people have reviewing it and provided comments. I've just replied to all of them17:52
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cgoncalvesgood news here is: we got +1 from cathy :)17:52
SumitNaiksatamcgoncalves: :-)17:53
SumitNaiksatamany questions for cgoncalves, or anything we need to discuss here?17:53
cgoncalvesso unless there are any questions I can answer to now, I'm ok and we can move on17:53
SumitNaiksatamcgoncalves: so no blockers (apart from reviewer attention) for you?17:54
cgoncalvesso that we still have time to discuss the flavor bp :-P17:54
SumitNaiksatamcgoncalves: thats very considerate of you :-P17:54
cgoncalvesSumitNaiksatam: correct17:54
SumitNaiksatamcgoncalves: thanks for all the hard work on this and the update today!17:54
SumitNaiksatam#topic Tap as a Service spec17:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Tap as a Service spec (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)"17:55
cgoncalvesSumitNaiksatam: no problem. I was out of office until today so lots to catch up yet17:55
SumitNaiksatamcgoncalves: sure no17:55
SumitNaiksatamno problem17:55
SumitNaiksatamvinay_yadhav, anil_rao: any major updates on this?17:55
vinay_yadhavpactch set 6 is up for review17:56
SumitNaiksatami see that there havent been negative comments on this, so i would imagine most people are in agreement?17:56
SumitNaiksatamvinay_yadhav: thanks for the new rev17:56
vinay_yadhavi guess too, since we got a lot of +1s in the last rev17:56
SumitNaiksatamany questions for vinay_yadhav or anil_rao?17:56
SumitNaiksatamat your end, vinay_yadhav anil_rao you are all set?17:57
vinay_yadhavwe want to start on the dev work soon17:57
cgoncalvesvinay_yadhav: I'll do my best to review it again soon, and hopefully give a +117:57
SumitNaiksatamvinay_yadhav anil_rao: good17:57
SumitNaiksatamcgoncalves: thanks!17:57
SumitNaiksatamvinay_yadhav: you can start the dev in parallel17:57
SumitNaiksatamif you feel comfortable17:57
vinay_yadhavsure... we will start out17:57
SumitNaiksatamregarding NSAaaS17:57
SumitNaiksatami think we should probably leave that option open to the operator?17:58
SumitNaiksatamthere might be cases where the tenant might need the operator help in debugging, right?17:58
SumitNaiksatamoperator can publish his policy17:58
marios_SumitNaiksatam: you mean allow admin to monitor all ports but this is a config setting?17:58
vinay_yadhavwell NSAaaS can be done by the operator by bypassing tap anyways17:58
SumitNaiksatammarios_: yeah, in policy.json17:58
SumitNaiksatamvinay_yadhav: :-)17:59
songolevinay_yadhav: would tap be one of the action values in GBP?17:59
vinay_yadhavwe in TaaS dont want to have it as a feature17:59
cgoncalvesNSAaaS will disregard any policy operators enforce17:59
marios_yah just saw your comment reply in the spec17:59
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marios_SumitNaiksatam: ^^17:59
SumitNaiksatamsongole: good question!17:59
SumitNaiksatammarios_: okay17:59
vinay_yadhavpardon me GBP?17:59
vinay_yadhavi dont understant the term :)17:59
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SumitNaiksatamsongole: i have looked closely into this18:00
SumitNaiksatamgroup-based policy18:00
vinay_yadhavha ok...18:00
vinay_yadhavi need to think on this... but what is your opinion sumit18:00
SumitNaiksatamvinay_yadhav: #link
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vinay_yadhavsumit: thanks i will check it out18:01
SumitNaiksatamvinay_yadhav: i think it will be good if you can consider songole’s question18:01
anil_raoOr we could just add admin capability in at a later time18:01
vinay_yadhavsure sumit18:01
marios_anil_rao: +1 i would go with this option - if for nothing else, so we can aland the spec in time18:01
SumitNaiksatamvinay_yadhav: we cannot two different tap implementations18:02
SumitNaiksatamvinay_yadhav: i mean for taas and for the GBP action18:02
SumitNaiksatamso best to reconcile18:02
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vinay_yadhavsumit: i can check on this18:02
SumitNaiksatamanything else for vinay_yadhav or anil_rao?18:02
SumitNaiksatamvinay_yadhav: thanks18:03
vinay_yadhavsumit, All: thanks18:03
SumitNaiksatam#topic Service base definition and Insertion18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Service base definition and Insertion (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)"18:03
SumitNaiksatami dont think either kanzhe or s3wong are in today18:03
SumitNaiksatamso i will fill in18:04
SumitNaiksatams3wong provided the update that he has updated the spec and addressed review comments18:04
SumitNaiksatamhe is also looking at the API and DB implelentation which Kanzhe has started18:04
SumitNaiksatamkanzhe is on vacation18:04
SumitNaiksatamhowever, after that i reviewed and have put a -118:04
SumitNaiksatamanyone else has thoughts/questions on this?18:05
SumitNaiksatami can relay to s3wong18:05
marios_i have a question about the necessity to remove attributes18:05
marios_i put a comment in v1518:05
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SumitNaiksatammarios_: ah, yeah regarding router_id in vpnaas18:05
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marios_i think from the response the intention is 'its ok because we won't change the API'18:06
SumitNaiksatammarios_: need to think a little more on this18:06
marios_but i think it is still risky. we not only have to implement this stuff but also fix all the places in code where we do  .router_id18:06
SumitNaiksatammarios_: at some point though we would need to deprecate that attribute18:06
marios_why can't we just add the attribute and then remove in another cycle18:06
SumitNaiksatammarios_: so i guess we are discussng the transition18:06
marios_well yes and by doing this we can also deprecate properly18:06
SumitNaiksatammarios_: yes18:07
SumitNaiksatammarios_: i guess we are saying the same thing :-)18:07
marios_works for me :)18:07
marios_SumitNaiksatam: yes i think so too18:07
SumitNaiksatammarios_: lets also look for the closest precedent in this regard and follow it18:07
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marios_didn't want to push it too much on the spec as i seemed to be a lone voice18:07
marios_ok sounds good18:07
SumitNaiksatammarios_: i believe we might find one with lbaas or service type framework18:07
SumitNaiksatammarios_: i agree thats a valid concern18:07
SumitNaiksatamlets check with nati_ueno as well18:08
SumitNaiksatamnati_ueno: there?18:08
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SumitNaiksatammarios_: ok lets follow with nati_ueno and pcm18:09
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SumitNaiksatam#action marios_ SumitNaiksatam s3wong to follow up with nati_ueno and pcm on VPNaaS router_id attribute deprecation18:09
SumitNaiksatamanything else on this?18:09
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: are you back?18:10
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: nice18:10
SumitNaiksatamand drum roll!18:10
SumitNaiksatam#topic Flavors18:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Flavors (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)"18:10
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enikanorov_ok, so i've started implementation based on most of points of this proposal18:10
SumitNaiksatamso per enikanorov_’s confirmation, we are now looking at the above spec (not the older one)18:10
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: great thanks18:11
enikanorov_ i think to make it land in juno we need to limit the scope of the first commit as much as possible18:11
enikanorov_and also postponed any features that create discussion contention18:11
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: on the process front, since you mention that you are already implementing this, but i dont see you as being one of the assignees in the above spec18:11
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SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: is this something we need to follow up with markmcclain or thats just a minor detail?18:11
enikanorov_markmcclain asked me if i can impl that18:12
enikanorov_so i think we're good on that front18:12
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: just want to make sure that you and markmcclain are in sync18:12
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: okay great18:12
enikanorov_so, I'm planning the first step impkementation to consist with the following items:18:12
enikanorov_Flavor API: flavors, service profiles18:12
enikanorov_DB plugin for that18:13
enikanorov_DB migration18:13
enikanorov_unit tests18:13
enikanorov_that's pretty much it...18:13
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: okay18:13
enikanorov_there is also one point left on which i think we haven't reach full consensus18:13
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enikanorov_is an extension list in the flavor resource18:13
enikanorov_i still need to follow up on that with markmcclain18:14
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: okay18:14
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SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: is that something we need to follow up on the -dev mailer?18:14
enikanorov_can't think of anything at this point18:14
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: regarding the extensions list18:15
enikanorov_do you have the question?18:15
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: if possible, can you summarize here for the benefit for everyone, what are the pros and cons of having exposing the extensions list?18:15
enikanorov_ok, so the intent of having extension list on the flavor is to be able to turn on or of certain features for the flavor18:16
enikanorov_say, you, as admin, want certain flavor with advanced features turned off18:16
enikanorov_and it will be cheaper18:16
enikanorov_but technically, it's usually not possible to turn API parts with flavors18:17
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: turn off?18:17
enikanorov_SumitNaiksatam: yes, like you try to access SSL and it's disabled because the resource is created with the flavor that doesn't support it18:17
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: this is true in general for the Neutron API/extensions’ framework, i believe, not limited to the flavors resource, right?18:18
enikanorov_the problem is that such API parts like SSL might not be connected to flavors in anyway18:18
enikanorov_so you can't really disable/turn off anything with extension list on the flavor just because flavor is not used when accessing this API18:18
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: did markmcclain indicate if he has a workaround for this?18:19
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: i believe that would have to be in the extensions’ framework?18:19
enikanorov_that's yet to be discussed18:19
enikanorov_and yes, also this feature requires some stuff to be done for extension framework18:19
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: ok perhaps, assessing what it takes to implement this would make it clear whether its achievable or not, right?18:19
enikanorov_but still i think it will not solve the issue from user perspective18:20
SumitNaiksatamachievable in the short Juno time frame that is18:20
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: ah ok18:20
enikanorov_afaik there are no extensions for fwaas and vpnaas18:20
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: there was also a comment from salvatore on the service_type18:20
enikanorov_so the only consumer is going to be lbaas so far18:20
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: but we will have in the future, at least for fwaas, in fact they are in review now18:21
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: i am not trying to justify the need18:21
enikanorov_good to know18:21
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enikanorov_anyway, extension list in fact is a subset of tag functionality18:21
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: ah okay18:21
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enikanorov_although i think that doing any kind of dispatching based on ext list/tags is an overkill18:21
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: so the service type has to be pre-defined/enumerated?18:22
enikanorov_what do you mean?18:22
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: or we can drop it from the flavor definition?18:22
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: it is currently enumerated right - LB, FW, VPN18:22
enikanorov_i'm not sure... let me recollect my concerns about it...18:22
enikanorov_yeah, so i think it's doable18:23
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: okay18:23
enikanorov_it puts some requirements for the drivers then, but requirements are not complex18:23
enikanorov_i'll followup with Slavatore18:24
SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: ok, i think that makes it more flexible18:24
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SumitNaiksatamany other questions for enikanorov_ ?18:24
SumitNaiksatamor markmcclain?18:24
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SumitNaiksatamenikanorov_: thanks for the udpate and your work on this!18:26
SumitNaiksatam#topic Open Discussion18:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)"18:26
LouisFdoes servicebase have any dependency on the serviceVM work?18:26
SumitNaiksatamLouisF: not that i am aware of18:26
SumitNaiksatami again want to draw your attention to this:18:26
SumitNaiksatamat this point, from the PTL perspective, he has only included the flavor’s blueprint as a high prirority18:27
SumitNaiksatamand has assigned cores to review it18:27
SumitNaiksatammore specifically see: #link
SumitNaiksatamthis does not preclude our other blueprints18:28
SumitNaiksatamhowever, want to make sure that the expectations are conveyed from the PTL and the neutron core team perspective18:28
SumitNaiksatamas a team we will continue to try and work towards the best possible outcome for the blueprints we have been discussing18:29
SumitNaiksatamany questions on this?18:29
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SumitNaiksatamalright, thanks everyone for the work on the specs and your reviews18:30
SumitNaiksatamthis is the crunch as far as the specs are concerned18:30
cgoncalvesgood progress, team!18:30
SumitNaiksatamwe need to keep a watch on the reviews and +118:30
SumitNaiksatamwe need quick turn around in this week to meet the deadline18:30
SumitNaiksatamthanks all, and for once we are finishing on time! :-)18:30
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:30
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul  9 18:30:55 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:30
openstackMinutes (text):
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: garyduan yisun Swami badveli: there?18:31
SumitNaiksatamwe wil start in a min18:31
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SumitNaiksatamok lets  get started18:34
SumitNaiksatam#startmeeting Networking FWaaS18:34
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul  9 18:34:27 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:34
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:34
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas'18:34
SumitNaiksatam#info agenda
SumitNaiksatam#topic Action Item follow up18:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Action Item follow up (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:34
SumitNaiksatami think most of the AIs have been addressed18:35
SumitNaiksatamthanks to SridarK and yisun18:35
SumitNaiksatamwe had one to set up a meeting with the DVR folks18:35
SumitNaiksatamand Swami is here18:35
SumitNaiksatamso lets jump into that18:35
SumitNaiksatam#topic DVR discussion18:35
*** openstack changes topic to "DVR discussion (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:35
SumitNaiksatamfirstly Swami welcome back, and thanks for joining! ;-)18:36
Swamisorry I was on vacation and could not join the meetings18:36
SumitNaiksatamSwami: you deserve it18:36
SumitNaiksatamSwami: i mean the vacation18:36
SumitNaiksatamSwami: as you can tell, we have been having quite a bit of discussion in the fwaas team on how to address the DVR integration18:36
SumitNaiksatamyisun: has been leading the charge on that front18:37
SwamiYes, can you update me on this, is there a proposal18:37
SumitNaiksatamand most of the fwaas team members met in person as well yesterday18:37
SumitNaiksatamSwami: yes18:37
SumitNaiksatamyisun: do you want to summarize18:37
SumitNaiksatamSwami: we have some questions for you as well18:37
Swamisure, if I know the answer I can provide you the answer right away.18:38
beyounnSumit, I'm in another meeting, could you help?18:38
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: sure18:38
SumitNaiksatamSwami: we first need to fully understand the manifestation of the “service” node18:38
SumitNaiksatamSwami: what is it, how will be deployed?18:39
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SumitNaiksatamSwami: there?18:40
SwamiService node is something similar to the network node that we have today and only services that will be running in that node is the "default snat", "dhcp" and probably VPNaaS18:40
SumitNaiksatamSwami: ok18:41
SumitNaiksatamSwami: so will it be part of a DVR (as in an implementation detail) or will it be a separate resource?18:41
SwamiThe way it is depolyed, is that, we have the same L3 agent working in service mode, but in the configuration file, you have to enable a flag for service node.18:41
SumitNaiksatamSwami: pardon my ignorance on this18:41
SridarKSwami: will all North - South traffic go thru this Service Node18:41
SumitNaiksatamSwami: ah got it18:41
SwamiNot all North South traffic will go through the Service Node. The VM's that have floating IP, will forward traffic directly from the Compute Node.18:42
garyduanSridark: I guess your quesion is regarding DNAT/Floating IP18:42
SumitNaiksatamSwami: ah18:42
SwamiFor other VMs that does not have floating IP, and has the default SNAT will forward traffic to the External network ( N-S) through the Service Node.18:43
SridarKSwami: thanks ok this was the issue that garyduan u brought up18:43
SumitNaiksatamSwami: in that case how will VPNaaS does not need to see any floating IP traffic?18:43
SumitNaiksatamrephrase - VPNaaS does not need to see any floating IP traffic?18:44
Swamiit depends on your implementation.18:44
SumitNaiksatamSwami: what about the reference implementation?18:44
SwamiIf the VPNaaS is running in a VM and if you have Floating IP associated to the VM, then your VPN traffic will not flow through the Service node.18:45
SumitNaiksatamnati_ueno: there?18:45
SwamiBut if you take our reference implementation for VPN, then this service will be running in the service node.18:45
beyounnSwami: the case we are talking about is an VM that has FIP but the NATed traffic needs to go throughout VPNaaS18:46
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SumitNaiksatamnati_ueno: so is it okay for VPNaaS to not see the floating ip traffic?18:46
beyounnSwami, if that case, we still need to steering the FIP traffic to VPNaaS, do we?18:46
nati_uenoI don't think vpn is seeing floating ip traffic18:46
SumitNaiksatamsorry, dont mean to distract from teh fwaas dsicussion, we are just trying to understand how it works for vpnaas18:46
SumitNaiksatamnati_ueno: ok, so not a concern for you?18:47
SwamiYes VPN does not need to see the FIP traffic. FIP is basically to get to the VM.18:47
nati_uenoSumitNaiksatam: gotcha. yeah, I think VPN is for private ip18:47
SumitNaiksatamnati_ueno: ok18:47
nati_uenoI believe service node has one external ip. This will be vpn endpoint.18:48
nati_uenoSwami: right?18:48
SumitNaiksatamnati_ueno: ok18:48
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SumitNaiksatamso Swami what we were thinking is that, as a first iteration, we would support FWaaS only as a perimiter firewall to deal with the N-S traffic18:48
SwamiYes, service node will the gateway to external network and that would be vpn endpoint.18:48
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SumitNaiksatamSwami: howeve for the above to work we would need to see all N-S traffic18:49
Swamisumit: When you say North-South traffic it includes all FIP and other default Gateway traffic.18:50
garyduanSumitNaiksatam: on service node, we can only deal with S - N traffic18:50
SumitNaiksatambeyounn SridarK garyduan: correct?18:50
SridarKSwami: Hmm! so both sides of the traffic will go thru the Service Node if that is the tunnel termination point for VPN ?18:50
SumitNaiksatamSwami: yes18:50
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: yes18:50
garyduanI guess for VPN referense design, traffic has to go through service node18:50
Swamigaryduan: Yes I agree.18:51
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garyduanFor FW, FIP traffic doesn't have to18:51
SridarKSwami: even in the DNAT scenario ?18:51
SumitNaiksatamyes, i think we can keep VPN aside for now, since it seems that for the reference implementation there is no issue, VPNaaS is dealing with onyl private IPs18:51
garyduannot 'for FW', just in general18:51
yyywuHi, one question, all NAT operation will be done on Service Node?18:51
garyduanyyywu: no, DNAT is on compute node18:52
garyduanyyywu: I mean FIP18:52
SumitNaiksatamSwami: ok let me take step back18:52
SwamiAll NAT operation for VM's that have default gateway will be done in Service Node.18:52
SumitNaiksatamSwami: in your mind, what solution had you thought of for integrating DVR with FWaaS?18:53
SwamiSumit: This was based on previous discussion that myself and vivek had with yi.18:54
SumitNaiksatamSwami: ok, and “this” being?18:54
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SwamiFor the east-west we only route traffic on one compute node and so on the other side the traffic is not routed.18:54
SumitNaiksatamSwami: true, so we have a problem with FWaaS working as is for the E-W traffic18:54
SumitNaiksatamSwami: but we were trying to see if we can could just limit to FWaaS to the N-S traffic in the first iteration of DVR support18:55
SwamiSo I think the original proposal that we did was instead of applying the firewall rules in the router interfaces we can apply the rules on a bridge interface above the routers in each compute node, so that both sides of the traffic will hit the firewall rules.18:55
SumitNaiksatamSwami: however, that seems to be a problem too now, since not all N-S traffic hits the service node18:55
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SwamiBut when we initially had the discussion we did not see any issues with North-South. That is my understanding. Correct me if I am wrong.18:56
beyounnSwami: until we realized the FIP will not go to service node18:56
SumitNaiksatamSwami: but then the service node does not see all the N-S traffic per your earlier explanation18:56
SwamiFor the North-South scenario including the Service node and the compute node, the existing  reference implementation for FWaaS where the rules are applied to the router interface will work, provided the FWaaS rules are applied on all compute nodes where the routers are hosted.18:58
SumitNaiksatamSwami: ah ok18:58
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SumitNaiksatamSwami: but how will we know which rules to apply on the compute nodes?18:59
SumitNaiksatamSwami: or are suggesting that we just apply the same rules everywhere?18:59
SumitNaiksatam*are you18:59
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SwamiProbably applying the same rules everywhere will be the easy option, but it might have some performance implications.19:00
SridarKSwami: but if response traffic does not hit the same point (service node) that will be a problem (in terms of connection tracking )19:00
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SridarKSwami: and this will the case if u have NAT happening on the compute node correct ?19:00
SwamiSridarK: For the North-South this will work, it will hit the same point.19:00
SridarKSwami: even with the NAT scenario ?19:01
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: i believe for the FIP case, both directions will hit the same compute node, Swami right?19:01
SwamiSridarK: Let me explain.19:01
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SwamiI think we need a picture to explain.19:02
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SridarKSwami: :-)19:02
SridarKi think i see what SumitNaiksatam is saying in that case yes19:03
SumitNaiksatamSwami: good point19:03
SumitNaiksatamSwami: how about a f2f meeting?19:03
yyywucould we draw a diagram on good doc?19:03
SridarKasciiflow for IRC product idea :-)19:03
SwamiThe traffic will hit the router in both these cases, that is my understanding.19:04
SridarKSwami: by router - u mean service node19:04
SwamiI think we already have some good pictures out there in the google. We can take up that for explaining to the team.19:04
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natarajkSridarK: there is a router running in each compute node for DVR19:05
SwamiLet me do one thing as sumit suggested we can have a virtual meeting room session to go over the scenario nextweek.19:06
SridarKnatarajk: yes i know - i wanted to understand which one19:06
SwamiIf that is ok with everyone.19:06
SumitNaiksatamSwami: good suggestion19:06
SumitNaiksatamSwami: let me work out the logistics with you19:06
SumitNaiksatam#action SumitNaiksatam Swami to plan virtual/f2f meeting to further follow up on DVR/FWaaS integration19:06
SwamiCouple of our folks are out this week. They will be in office next week.19:07
natarajkcan we do google hangout ?19:07
SumitNaiksatamSwami: for now, what is the best DVR document to look at (in case there is more than one)19:07
SwamiSo let us plan for either Tuesday or Wednesday next week.19:07
yyywuwebex possible?19:07
SumitNaiksatamSwami: and again, apologies for the ignorance on this19:07
SridarKyyywu: webex possible i can set that up19:07
SwamiThe design doc should be the best one to lock for.19:07
yyywuSridarK, thanks.19:07
SumitNaiksatamSwami: tuesday is better, so that we are prepared for the wednesday meeting19:07
SumitNaiksatamSwami: link?19:08
SwamiWe do have multiple design docs, I will forward you the L3 Agent/SNAT design doc link19:08
SumitNaiksatamSwami: thanks19:08
SumitNaiksatamSwami: the one with teh pretty figures ;-)19:08
SumitNaiksatamSwami: who else at your end are we missing this week?19:08
SwamiOtherwise, since the agenda is specific to North-South, I will put together a picture just to address the traffic flow.19:08
beyounnthis is what I was reading19:08
SumitNaiksatamSwami: sweet19:09
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: thanks19:09
SwamiI don't have Rajeev and Mike in office this week. Vivek is in a different timezone.19:09
SumitNaiksatamSwami: ok, i just wanted to understand what progress we can make this week19:10
SwamiThis document has couple of pictures that you may be interested in .19:10
SumitNaiksatamSwami: also, have you speced out the VPNaaS/FWaaS support to be part of the DVR spec, or you anticipate a new bp for this?19:10
SwamiOr else I will talk to vivek and let us put together a flow picture for North South traffic that uses the Service node and the one that uses the FIP on the compute Node.19:10
SumitNaiksatamSwami: i am just trying to understand since we have limited time to submit bp specs19:11
SumitNaiksatamSwami: that sounds great19:11
SwamiWill that work out, and if you have any questions we can take it up in the next week's meeting.19:11
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SumitNaiksatamSwami: ok we will wait for your diagram then, say by Friday?19:11
SwamiSumit: I have not speced out Services bp along with DVR. It would be a follow on.19:12
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SumitNaiksatamSwami: ok that makes it tricky, i am not sure we have resources right now, do add a new bp spec before tomorrow19:12
SumitNaiksatamSwami: we will probably need to work it out with the PTL to ride on top of the DVR spec if we have to achieve this in Juno time frame19:13
SwamiOk, do you want me to add the spec.19:14
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SumitNaiksatamSwami: lets check with the PTL on this19:14
SumitNaiksatamin general, question to the FWaaS team, does anyone have to time to quickly write up a place holder FWaaS spec to support DVR?19:15
SumitNaiksatamthis will however have to land by tomorrow?19:15
SumitNaiksatamSridarK_ beyounn garyduan badveli: ^^^ ?19:15
SumitNaiksatamnatarajk: ^^^ ?19:15
SridarK_SumitNaiksatam: by placeholder what do we need in that ?19:15
SumitNaiksatamSridarK_: i tried to hand wave there, you caught me! :-P19:16
SridarK_SumitNaiksatam: :-)19:16
SwamiSridarK: probably everything that the spec guidlines mandates19:16
SumitNaiksatamSwami: :-)19:16
SwamiSridark: just kiding.19:16
badveliis it very detail19:16
SumitNaiksatami mean i wanted to meet the deadline for submitting the blueprint spec by tomorrow19:16
SridarK_SumitNaiksatam: Swami: i fear that with the spec we will have an issues19:16
SumitNaiksatami dont expect all the details to be filled out19:16
SridarK_with review cycles etc19:16
SridarK_can we target to get this done by associating with one of the existing BP19:17
SumitNaiksatami am just trying to understand if this is feasible19:17
SumitNaiksatamif not, it is what it is19:17
SridarK_SumitNaiksatam: i can add a spec quickly if u want19:18
SumitNaiksatamand the fall back option could be that Swami could submit a rev for his DVR blueprint19:18
SridarK_but need more discussion on what we want to put there19:18
SumitNaiksatamSridarK_: ok19:18
SumitNaiksatamSridarK_: agree19:18
SumitNaiksatamSwami: how soon is it possible to get the diagram that you were planning?19:18
beyounnSumit and Sridar: badveli could help too19:19
SwamiCan I get it to you latest by tomorrow evening? Will it be acceptable.19:19
SumitNaiksatamSwami: that is for the N-S and the FIP traffic19:19
badvelibeyounn: i will help19:19
SumitNaiksatamSwami: hmm, suspect that might be a little late (i understand though that you might have a dependency on Vivek and he is not immediately available)19:20
SumitNaiksatamSridarK_: tomorrow evening might be late, right?19:20
SridarK_SumitNaiksatam: yes cutting it too fine19:20
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: thanks, good to know that badveli can help19:20
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SwamiYes, other option is I can try by tomorrow morning. That is the fastest I could do.19:20
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SridarK_Swami: would it be possible to have a call with Vivek tonight or early am tomorrow if that is reqd19:21
SumitNaiksatamSwami: okay lets shoot for tomorrow morning19:21
SumitNaiksatamSridarK_ badveli: meanwhile we can work on the bp spec skeleton19:21
SridarK_SumitNaiksatam: ok19:21
SwamiYes, I will keep him in the loop, if you guys have any question you can shoot him an email.19:21
SumitNaiksatamSwami: morning around 10 AM (sorry for being pushy!)19:22
badveliok sumit19:22
SumitNaiksatamSwami: thanks much19:22
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SumitNaiksatam#action Swami to prepare N-S and FIP traffic diagram, send to FWaaS team by morning July 10th to aid submission of FWaaS support for DVR bp spec19:24
SumitNaiksatamSwami: would you also be available for a quick call tomorrow morning after the diagram is ready?19:24
Swamisumit: this will not be an ASCII diagram.19:24
SumitNaiksatamSwami: yes sure :-)19:24
SridarK_Swami: :-(19:24
SumitNaiksatamSridarK_: that is fine19:24
Swamisumit: yes, will be available.19:24
SridarK_SumitNaiksatam: just kidding19:24
SumitNaiksatamSwami: SridarK_: I am seeing this mainly as a tool for us to understand19:25
SumitNaiksatamSwami: you can perhaps add the diagram to your spec itself and we can reference it19:25
SumitNaiksatamSwami: so no ascii diagram required even when we submit the spec19:25
yyywuSwami, can you forward to mailing list?19:25
SumitNaiksatamSwami: whatever works for you, but at least get it to us19:25
Swamisumit: got it!19:26
garyduanSorry, I am back. I will look at the diagram19:26
SumitNaiksatamSridarK_ Swami: i might be busy with group policy meeting tomorrow morning, so can you guys sync up on the follow up call tomorrow morning?19:26
SridarK_SumitNaiksatam: sure19:27
SumitNaiksatamSridarK_: perhaps you can set up a webex for 11 or so and invite everyone involved here19:27
SumitNaiksatamSwami: sound okay?19:27
SumitNaiksatamSwami: thanks19:27
SridarK_SumitNaiksatam: sure will do19:27
SridarK_Swami: thanks - will send u an email too19:27
SumitNaiksatamindeed, thanks much Swami for induling us!19:27
SumitNaiksatam#topic Open Discussion19:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"19:27
SumitNaiksatami wanted to mainly focus on the DVR issue for today19:28
SumitNaiksatamany other burning concerns19:28
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: on the service objects19:28
badvelispec review19:28
beyounnSumit: yes, did not hear anything yet19:28
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: one question (and might be late to bring this up) - how did we arrive at the name “service objects”?19:28
beyounnSumit: it is a common term used by Juniper and Netscreen19:29
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: i want to make sure we have consensus on this and dont get blocked on it in the future (i know its kind of silly concern)19:29
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: ok19:29
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SumitNaiksatambeyounn: earlier we were talking in terms of “application” objects19:29
beyounnSumit: "naming" is the most complicate matter to discuss :-)19:30
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SumitNaiksatambeyounn:  this is when we had started the fwaas project19:30
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: ha :-)19:30
beyounnSumit: I have no problem to change that19:30
garyduan'application' might indicate APP ID function19:30
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: my concern is that people dont misinterpret with what we are trying to do, and hence progress gets blocked19:30
beyounnSumit: the app object can mean different things when the L7 feature started19:30
beyounnSumit: +119:31
beyounnSumit: when we have applicate identification, the application object is really a L7 term19:31
SumitNaiksatambeyounn garyduan: okay, i dont have problem with service objects, i just want to make sure that its what the community/industry understands and we are not blocked19:31
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: agree19:31
SumitNaiksatamSridarK_: whats your view on this?19:31
SumitNaiksatamnatarajk: you as well19:32
SridarK_SumitNaiksatam: i am fine with service group terminology19:32
beyounnSumit: the simplest way to look at is if you go to anything unix device /etc/services, you will get all the protocol/port/service definitions19:32
SridarK_i think this is common usage19:32
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: ah nice, taht works for me19:32
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: perhaps we can even add that justification/clarification to the spec19:33
SumitNaiksatamsorry if i raised an inconsequential concern!19:33
SumitNaiksatamfor once, the fwaas meeting has been longer than the adv services meeting!19:33
SumitNaiksatamanything else?19:33
SridarK_folks request to review spec: #link for our vendor implementation19:33
beyounnSumit: sure19:33
SridarK_natarajk: thanks for getting it started19:34
SumitNaiksatamSridarK_: thanks of adding us as reviewers, will look19:34
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beyounnGuys, please also help to put +1 to service objects19:34
SridarK_SumitNaiksatam: thanks19:34
beyounnI just want to get some activities19:34
SridarK_beyounn: surely i will do that19:34
beyounnSridark_: thanks19:34
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: yes19:34
SridarK_my old +1 is gone now19:34
natarajkSridarK: you are welcome. will give my +119:35
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: hence raised the topic here19:35
beyounnSridark_: all the +1 are gone19:35
SumitNaiksatambeyounn badveli: we need to iterate and respond quickly19:35
SridarK_beyounn: yes i have no issues thanks for addressing my earlier comments19:35
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: did you hear back from nati_ueno or akihiro?19:35
SridarK_beyounn: will do so today19:35
beyounnSumit: did not19:35
beyounnSumit: I normally update spec overnight19:36
nati_uenoooops  I'm missing something?19:36
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SumitNaiksatambeyounn: yes, keep up the good work19:36
SumitNaiksatamnati_ueno: the service objects spec :-)19:36
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nati_uenoSumitNaiksatam: gotcha! I'll review it today.19:36
beyounnnati_ueno: thank ahead19:36
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SumitNaiksatamnati_ueno: #link
SumitNaiksatamnati_ueno: thanks much!19:37
SumitNaiksatamalrighty, thanks everyone19:37
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"19:37
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul  9 19:37:37 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:37
openstackMinutes (text):
SridarK_thanks all19:37
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