Tuesday, 2014-07-22

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dgeninhas libvirt sub-team meeting been cancelled?15:07
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apmeltonnot sure, just realized I was 7 minutes late and joined15:08
thomasemlet me ping danpb15:08
mirrorboxthomasem: I've pinged him on #virt already15:09
thomasemoh okay15:09
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dgeninwell, it's not like i have pressing issues but just thought i would check in.15:09
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danpb#startmeeting libvirt15:10
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 22 15:10:50 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is danpb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:10
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:10
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: libvirt)"15:10
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'libvirt'15:10
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danpbsorry i got side tracked & forgot ...15:11
thomasemNo worries, it happens. We just had a topic from our team that we'd really value your input on.15:12
danpbok, go for it15:12
thomasemSo, we're exploring cpu tuning for containers, but, as I'm sure you've seen, /proc/cpuinfo still shows the host's processor info instead of something that better reflects the tuning for the guest, like /proc/meminfo does.15:13
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danpbah, so this is a real can of worms you'll wish you'd not raised :-)15:13
thomasemLol, oh my favorite!15:14
danpbso for a start containers don't really have any concept of virtualized CPUs15:14
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apmeltonso with cpushares/quota, you still technically have every cpu, but if you've locked down the cpus with cpusets, I believe you would only have the cpus you've been allocated15:14
apmeltonso you can simulate vcpus with cpusets15:14
danpbeg if you tell libvirt  <vcpus>3</vcpus> or <vcpus>8</vcpu>  <vcpus>whatever</vcpu> it is meaningless15:15
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danpbwhat containers do give you is the ability to set affinity of the container to the host15:15
danpbso you can say  only run this container on host CPUs  n->m15:15
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danpbwhich is done with cgroups  cpuset15:15
danpbthe /proc/cpuinfo  file though is really unrelated to CPU affinity masks15:16
danpbeg, consider if you ignore containers for a minute15:16
danpband just have a host OS and put apache inside a  cpuset cgroup15:16
danpbyou then have the exact same scenario wrt /proc/cpuinfo15:16
danpbwhat this all says to me is that applications should basically ignore /proc/cpuinfo as a way to determine how many CPUs they have available15:17
danpbthey need to look at what they are bound to15:17
thomasemHow would we inform applications of that? Is it common for applications to inspect /proc/cpuinfo for tuning themselves?15:18
danpbi don't know to be honest - I've been told some (to remain unnamed) large enterprise software parses stuff in /proc/cpuinfo15:18
danpbi kind of see this is a somewhat of a gap in the Linux ecosystem API15:19
danpbnothing is really providing apps a good library API to determine available CPU / RAM availability15:19
thomasemI see where you're coming from15:20
danpbi kind of feel the same way about /proc/meminfo - what we hacked up in libvirt is really not container specific - same issue with any app that wants to see "available 'host' memory" which is confined by cgroups memory controller15:20
sewso wrt vcpu and flavors for containers, we're considering just setting vcpu to zero for our lxc flavors - does that sound reasonable?15:21
danpbso in that sense I (at least partially) regret that we added overriding of /proc/meminfo into libvirt15:21
danpbsew: not sure about that actually15:22
danpbsew: it depends how things interact with the NUMA/CPU pinning stuff I'm working on15:22
thomasemWhat would you have in place of the /proc/meminfo solution in Libvirt to provide guests a normal way of understanding its capabilities?15:22
danpbsew: we're aiming to avoid directly exposing the idea of setting a CPU affinity mask to the user/admin15:22
apmeltondanpb: working on that in libvirt or nova's libvirt drive?15:22
danpbsew: so the flavour would just say  "want exclusive CPU pinning"15:23
danpband then libvirt nova driver would figure out what host  CPUs to pin the guest to15:23
sewinteresting concept danpb15:23
danpbso to be able todo that, we need  the vcpus number set to a sensible value15:23
apmeltonah, danpb, so we could mimic vcpus for containers with that?15:23
danpbjust so that we can figure out how many host CPUs to pin the guest to15:23
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danpbeven though when we pass this vcpu value onto libvirt it will be ignored15:24
danpbIOW from Nova flavour level,   vcpus is still useful even though it isn't useful at libvirt level15:24
danpbapmelton: it is a Juno feature for Nova libvirt driver15:24
apmeltonah really, I wasn't aware of that, how do you use it?15:25
danpbthomasem: ultimately i think there needs to be some kind fo API to more easily query cgroup confinement / resource availability15:25
danpbapmelton: big picture is outlined here  https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtDriverGuestCPUMemoryPlacement15:25
thomasemAh, so a process, whether in a full container guest, or simply under a single cgroup limitation can find its boundaries?15:25
danpbthomasem: yeah, pretty much15:26
thomasemHmmm, I wonder how we could pursue that, tbh.15:26
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thomasemStart a chat on ze mailing list for LXC?15:26
thomasemOr perhaps work like that is already underway?15:26
danpbwith the way systemd is rising to a standard in linux, and the owner of cgroups, it is possible that systemd's DBus APIs might be the way forward15:26
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thomasemoh okay15:27
danpbbut i'm fairly sure there's more that systemd would need to expose in this respect still15:27
danpboverall though the current view is that Systemd will be the exclusive owner of all things cgroup related - libvirt and other apps need to talk to systemd to make changes to cgroups config15:28
sewsystemd does seem like the logical place for all that to happen15:28
thomasemSomething to research and pursue, then.15:28
danpbthat all said, if there's a compelling reason for libvirt to fake /proc/cpuinfo  for sake of compatibility we might be able to explore that upstream15:31
danpbjust that it would really  be a work of pure fiction based solely on the <vcpu> value from the XML that does nothing from a functional POV :-)15:31
thomasemYeah, we'd be lying.15:31
danpbfor added fun, /proc/cpuinfo is utterly different for each CPU architecture - thanks linux :-(15:32
apmeltondanpb: wouldn't it be better to base it off cpupinning?15:32
thomasemIt's just the question of whether it's better to lie closer to the truth :P15:32
apmeltonor is that not supported with libvirt-lxc?15:32
danpbyou can do guest pinning with libivrt lxc15:32
apmeltonfor instance, instead of ignoring the vcpu value in lxc, could libvirt translate that into cpu pins?15:33
danpbif the kernel ever introduced a cgroup tunable   "max N number of processes concurrently in running state for schedular" that would conceptually work for a vcpu value but that's probalby not likely to happen15:33
danpbapmelton: that would mean the guests were always pinned even when pinning is not requested15:34
danpbwhich is something i'd prefer to avoid since while it works ok as you startup a sequence of guests15:34
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danpbonce you shutdown a few & start some new ones, you end up very unbalanced in placement15:34
apmeltonyea, that gets complex fast15:34
danpbyou'd have to have libvirt constantly re-pinning containers to balance things out again15:35
apmeltonok, that makes sense15:36
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thomasemregarding faking /proc/cpuinfo for compatibility, I am not immediately aware of an application use-case that would look for that. Can anyone think of an issue with the guest being able to see the host processor info in general (in a multi-tenant env)?15:39
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danpbi don't think there's any real information leakage problems15:40
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dgeninmaybe if you new that the data you were after was on a particular type of node you could use /proc/cpuinfo to navigate the cloud15:41
dgeninjust an idea15:42
danpbdgenin: the /proc/cpuinfo file is pretty low entropy as far as identifying information is concerned15:43
danpbparticularly as clouds will involve large pools of identical hardware15:44
dgenintrue, there are bound to be many nodes with the same cpuinfo15:44
danpbthere's many other easier ways to identify hosts15:44
dgeninwhat do you have in mind?15:44
danpbsysfs exposes host UUIDs :-)15:46
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dgeninyeah, but the attacker is not likely to know something so precise15:47
dgeninanother possibility is that cpuinfo is not sufficient alone but it could be combined with other identifying information to pidgeonhole the node15:47
danpbany other agenda items to discuss, or we can call it a wrap15:47
thomasemNot from me. I have stuff to think about now. :)15:48
thomasemNot like I didn't before, but more now. hehe.15:48
sewthx for the background on cpuinfo danpb15:49
danpbok, till next week....15:49
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:49
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 22 15:49:30 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:49
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/libvirt/2014/libvirt.2014-07-22-15.10.html15:49
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/libvirt/2014/libvirt.2014-07-22-15.10.txt15:49
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/libvirt/2014/libvirt.2014-07-22-15.10.log.html15:49
thomasemThanks, everyone!15:49
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david-lyle#startmeeting Horizon16:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 22 16:00:52 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)"16:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'horizon'16:00
david-lyleHello everyone16:01
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tmazurhello o/16:01
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david-lyleI think EuroPython is going on right now and we have a few that won't make it to this meeting as a result16:02
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david-lyleJ-2 closes on July 2416:03
david-lylewe have a lot of items that still need review16:03
david-lylehttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/bootstrap-update is a large item that I would like to discuss first16:04
david-lyleTihomir proposed merging it and fixing the bugs related to the merge rather than trying to fix everything up front16:05
david-lyleI think this is a good idea16:05
david-lylewould like to know if there is a strong opposition to this path16:05
doug-fishnone here.  Getting that in is the path to getting it right.16:06
amotokiagree. good direction16:06
david-lyleso horizon in j-2 will have some visual issues16:06
david-lyleI think that's fine, as it's not the final juno release16:07
clu_it'll be easy to add small patches afterwards :)16:07
david-lyleok, it's on it's long journey through the gate process16:08
clu_should we write bug reports for that or just go off the etherpad list when picking off bugs?16:08
david-lylethere are a few sahara patches that need another +216:08
david-lylethis is another case where I think we can only fix so much before we merge it16:09
ericpetersonclu_ : I would prefer to have real bugs entered vs just a etherpad line of text16:09
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david-lyleremove the most egregious errors and move on to fix16:09
doug-fish+1 on ericpeterson's suggestion16:10
david-lyletwo items are still blocked by requirements changes16:10
david-lyleericpeterson, doug-fish definitely should be launchpad bugs16:10
clu_ericpeterson - okey, will open and tag bug reports with 'bootstrap' or something16:10
david-lyleclu_: thanks16:11
clu_np :)16:11
david-lyleso please keep up with the reviews and let's get a few more bps merged into j-216:12
david-lylethe rest will slip to j-316:12
david-lyleThat's the only item I had for the agenda today16:13
david-lyle#topic Open Discussion16:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Horizon)"16:13
crobertsrhI think you covered my usual bit on sahara merge reviews....thanks.16:13
ericpetersonanyone have some insight into when builds will get a bit more predictable ????16:14
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ericpetersonthe gozer / zuul / review jobs / whatever stuff I mean16:14
david-lyleericpeterson: not really, there has been some discussion of the problem on the mailing list, but I haven't seen a road to an improvement yet16:15
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tqtranClientside table rendering could use some love. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/94706/16:16
ericpetersona developer can dream, I guess16:16
david-lyleunfortunately most of these bugs in the gating process are either race conditions in the tests, or issues in the code illuminated by the timing of the tests running16:16
doug-fishNot a blueprint, but a bug fix I'd love to se go into j-2:  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91338/  It's an enabler for making better translations for other panels too.16:16
david-lyledoug-fish  I like fixing the issue, but oh my the solution is ugly16:17
david-lyleno offense to ygbo16:18
tqtranyeah, i think it can be done in a smaller patch16:18
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david-lyleyou went from a one line class property to many line of method call for every action16:18
tqtranheres something else to consider doug, the angular patch im introducing will help with translation as well16:19
david-lyleseems like we could make it more developer friendly to get right16:19
tqtraneverything gets serialize to json, including the batch action names16:19
david-lyleI'll leave my comments, as I see I forgot to last time I looked at the patch16:19
tsufievif anyone is already tired with modal forms losing modality when FileInput appears, the patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/107769/ is ready for review16:19
doug-fishdavid-lyle:  cool, thx - will be good to get attention on that and see if those concerns can be addressed16:20
clu_tsufiev: YES!!!16:20
doug-fishtqtran:  I actually didn't realized the angular fix would change that processing, I'll have to look at that more closely.16:20
tsufievclu_, I know you would be interested :)16:20
david-lyletsufiev: I'll take a look16:21
tsufievdavid-lyle, thank you :)16:21
tqtrandoug: it doesnt fix the processing, but it does make it easier16:22
david-lyletqtran: I'm trying to make it to the clientside table patch16:23
tqtrandavid: awesome =)16:23
tqtranwould love to get some feedback from others before you get there16:23
amotokiBTW, I would like to know some pointers related to review guidelines. I think there are some references on I18N and UX review guidelines but I couldn't find them so far...16:24
amotokiif anyone has links, it will be appreciated.16:24
doug-fishmaybe https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/I18n/TranslatableStrings16:25
amotokidoug-fish: thanks. that's what I am looking for.16:25
doug-fishcool, yw16:25
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amotokii will add it to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Horizon/Reviews after the meeting.16:26
amotokiIf anyone knows good guidelines or referecens for reviews, please add information to the above page. I would like to collect pointers to share.16:27
guglAlso appreciate a good guideline for exception handling in Horizon. Have notice quite bit of code catched the exception, but lost it when present to the user.16:31
david-lylejust typed some stuff in the wrong window16:33
asahlinamotoki:  As a newbie, a central place with pointers to documentation would be extremely helpful16:33
david-lylelet's review this to make sure it's accurate and helpful16:33
david-lylethe old tutorial is just cruel16:34
gugldavid-lyle, thanks16:34
david-lyleAny additional items?16:37
tqtranjust something in the back of my mind, we need more code control for javascripts16:38
david-lylecode control?16:38
david-lylelike verification tools?16:38
tqtransome files define functions a certain way, others a another way16:38
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tqtranand the styling is all over the place16:38
rbertramthinking of jshint settings?16:39
tqtranyes =)16:40
tqtrani think we should recommend a tool/plugin for people to use with certain settings16:40
tqtranthat way, its all consistent and easier to review/read/code16:40
doug-fishI'm sure I saw I patch to intergrate jshint into our automated testing16:40
rbertramjshint plugs into most editors16:40
doug-fishbut can't recall where it is just now16:41
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david-lylewe've gone through a round of jshint standardization, there is a bp to use node based tools in the dev environment16:41
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david-lyledoug-fish: there was a license issue16:41
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david-lylewas merged, pulled back out in icehouse16:41
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david-lyle"do no evil"16:41
tzumainnis it this patch?16:41
doug-fishI thought there was a new and improved version that came about later16:41
doug-fishtzumainn, yeah that's it!16:42
david-lylewhoa, totally missed that16:42
rbertramI assume the license problem was with jshint and not with node?16:43
doug-fishThe jshint developer added an extra clause to the license16:43
doug-fishwhich causes lawyers great concern16:44
rbertramyep, I've run into the "do no evil" clause before16:44
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tqtran"do no evil" sounds like google16:44
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rbertramDid the jshint license cause it to be pulled from the build? Still OK for dev environments?16:46
tqtranso whats is the procedure to formalize/propose code styling guidelines?16:47
doug-fishrbertram  certainly okay for dev environments16:47
tqtrani think jshint is nice to have, but we should provide an independent guideline that "could" work with jshint16:47
doug-fishwell, unless you are using it for evil.  :-)16:47
david-lylethe "evil" is more a problem for distros16:47
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amotokiif we pass DFSG and Fedora, it is okay in most cases :-)16:49
rbertramtqtran: I agree. The guideline should cover the kinds of things jshint covers, and some other things specific to AngularJS and jQuery.16:49
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david-lyletqtran: volunteering?16:50
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tqtrandavid: sure =)16:50
* david-lyle ducks16:50
rbertramtqtran: I'll be glad to help16:50
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david-lyletqtran, rbertram: thanks16:50
tqtranrbertram: awesome, thanks16:50
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amotokii would like to know your opinion on extension supported aliases in api/neutron.py.16:52
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david-lyleamotoki: seems like we should have a generalized capabilities method for neutron that is memoized16:53
amotokiin api/neutron.py there are several number of wrapper methods for extension, but most of them are unnecesssrty16:53
david-lyleis a general method not supported in neutron16:53
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amotokiis_extension_supported() method is already memoized.16:54
amotokiSo I think we don't need wrapper methods per extension.16:54
david-lyleamotoki: so it is, and I agree16:55
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david-lyledidn't expand enough code above before16:55
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amotokidavid-lyle: thanks. i will ask patch authors to remove them and i will clean up existing ones.16:56
david-lyleamotoki: thanks for point it out, I think sometimes gerrit collapsing unchanged code is a disservice16:56
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amotokidavid-lyle: that's all I have after catching up horizon reviews :-)16:57
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david-lyleLet's call it. Thanks everyone. Keep up with the reviews and have a great week.16:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 22 16:58:07 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-07-22-16.00.html16:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-07-22-16.00.txt16:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-07-22-16.00.log.html16:58
amotokithanks all!16:58
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thinrichs#startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting17:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 22 17:00:38 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is thinrichs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting'17:00
thinrichsHi all17:00
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skn_Hi guys, sorry could not join last week's meeting17:01
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thinrichsskn_: no worries17:01
rajdeephi all17:02
thinrichspballand is out this week17:02
thinrichsrajdeep: hi17:02
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thinrichscloudtoad: you joining?17:02
thinrichssarob: Congress time17:02
rajdeephi thinrichs17:02
skn_Did we move all the specs to congress-spec?17:02
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thinrichsskn_: let's wait for sarob to answer that17:03
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thinrichsI managed to put the agenda up on the google doc.17:03
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thinrichsI guess we'll start with status updates17:04
skn_why can't I access the doc?17:04
thinrichsHmmm… everyone with action items from last week hasn't arrived yet.17:04
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arosenskn_:  nope not yet but soon.17:04
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thinrichsskn_: not sure—let me see if I can change rights.17:05
arosenskn_:  there was a bug in the config file for create the congress-specs repo so we didn't have gatting setup there. We're waiting till that patch merges before we move everything out.17:05
skn_thinrichs: thanks17:05
rajdeepthinrichs did you create it with your vmware id17:05
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sarobim here17:05
sarobsorry double duty with the board meeting17:06
skn_arosen: Got it17:06
thinrichssarob: glad you could make it17:06
sarobi just got the congress-specs acls merged17:06
thinrichspballand made the doc.  I don't see how to make it publically avail.17:06
sarobcongress-specs should be up on running today17:06
thinrichssarob: great!17:07
rajdeepyou can't17:07
sarobi will start migrating the existing specs and idenifying gaps17:07
skn_thinrichs: May be, you can just copy and upload a with your permission or something :)17:07
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thinrichsLet's let sarob report while he's able.  We can deal with agenda, etc. later.17:07
thinrichssarob: I see 2 other action items for you.  The policy-summit and the mid-cycle operators summit.  Anything to report?\17:08
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thinrichsMaybe sarob got pulled away.17:09
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thinrichsAgenda was simple: (i) status updates and (ii) a couple of discussion items: Tetris (another policy project) and some things I've learned while integrating)17:09
skn_thinrichs: the agenda was for the policy summit?17:10
thinrichsskn_: for this meeting17:10
thinrichsI believe the policy-summit agenda is simple so far.17:10
sarobsorry back17:10
thinrichsDay 1: everyone talks about their policy projects17:10
skn_oh shoot, I thought the policy summit17:10
thinrichsDay 2: we discuss integrating17:10
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sarobpolicy summit is set for 18-19 sep17:10
skn_thinrichs: Sounds right to me17:11
saroblikely vmware location17:11
sarobim going to coordinate with pierre17:11
sarobfrom vmware17:11
saroblocation wise17:11
skn_sarob: SFO?17:11
thinrichssarob: sounds good17:11
sarobpalo alto17:11
sarobthe operators summit, we likely will part of the working session part17:12
sarobstill working out with tom17:12
thinrichsfor the operators summit, do we give a talk with slides, a demo, a poster, what?17:12
sarobits very crowded for topics17:13
skn_operator summit, you mean the San Antonio one?17:13
sarobso we are going to be part of the working session17:13
sarobskn_ yup17:13
sarobany questions?17:14
skn_what's the working session supposed to contain?17:14
sarobblueprints, telco, enterprise, ops tools17:15
sarobcollection of other stuff17:15
thinrichssarob: so we get a desk and can do a demo, put up a poster?  Is that the idea?17:15
skn_so, we want to put in our blueprints in there? or something else?17:16
sarobskn_: its more general on the ops interaction with blueprints i believe17:16
sarob#link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p7gCZcLhmYnMC_Ab2N23Nndy3pAnTmtvpBvcvaOZb0Q/edit#gid=017:16
sarobthis is the prelim ops mini-summit schedule17:17
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skn_which session could we be part of?17:17
thinrichsMonday 1330 - 141517:18
sarobmonday 25th aug 1330-150017:18
thinrichscalled "Working Sessions"17:18
sarobits breakout groups17:18
skn_Oh okay17:19
sarobit is a really busy couple of days17:19
skn_So we get to present along with other WIP projects?17:19
sarobthis is not really for projects, rather ops topics17:20
saroblike storage is general rather than ceph, swift, or cinder17:20
skn_sarob: ok.  So what do you think our plan should be?17:20
saroboverview of congress, strategy working with mulitple data sources, demo17:21
skn_sarob: oh okay, got it.17:22
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sarobill work to identify a few priority ops users if we can wrangle their attention for the working session17:22
sarobshow and tell time17:22
sarobget some feedback17:23
thinrichsthat'd be great!17:23
skn_sarob: sounds like a plan17:23
thinrichsAnything else to discuss around either of the summits?17:23
skn_I can help out on slides17:23
sarobskn_: sounds great17:24
sarobwe can start dig details for the policy summit17:24
sarobi wanted to get the specs going first17:24
sarobso later this week, we start17:25
thinrichssarob: sounds good.  Let's make sure we do our best to get everyone working on policy an invite.17:25
skn_Who are we inviting for the policy summit, other than we Congress guys? Did you reach out to them?17:26
sarobi have reached out to the dev ML and directly to a few PTLs17:26
thinrichsskn_: sarob is sending invites to a list of contacts.17:26
skn_sarob: That's awesome! PTLs would be great17:27
sarobonce we have the agenda set, I will get more aggressive17:27
skn_Let me know how I could help you, we don't want to burn you out17:28
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skn_Please CC/BCC us too ;)17:28
thinrichsI think it's time to move on.17:29
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thinrichsOther status updates...17:30
skn_thinrichs: yes, please.17:30
thinrichsarosen: want to report what you're up to?17:30
arosenSo pretty much on the same path as last week.17:30
arosenI have the keystone integration and policy.json integration up for review.17:30
arosenI should pretty much be down with this soon. I want to add a file that describes how this integration is done. Once i do that hopefully we can merge it17:31
arosendefinitely eager to get some reviews on it but most of the code is boiler plate stuff that i stole from neutron/nova/keystone.17:31
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arosenthat's it from me.17:31
kudvaSorry, I joined late17:31
thinrichsIt'd be great if we could spread out the reviewing some more.17:31
thinrichskudva: hi17:31
thinrichsI'm not especially well-versed in the OS way, so having banix and skn_ do some reviews of this keystone integration could be good.17:32
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skn_Sure, I could review17:32
banixthinrichs: there were a lot of changes happening last week; now seem to be in a more stable state?17:32
banixthinrichs: yes sure will do17:32
thinrichsbanix: yes—certainly more stable17:32
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thinrichskudva: now that you're here, want to give us a status update?17:33
thinrichsgokul: hello17:33
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gokul hi thinrichs:  hi -- apologize for the delay.  i forgot the meeting time.17:33
sarobit would be great to get each contributor doing 2-3 reviews per day17:33
thinrichsgokul: no worries—glad you made it!17:33
kudvaLast week was crazy for me since I had to give a talk elsewhere. Not much update this week. next week, I will have some17:33
thinrichssarob: agreed17:34
thinrichskudva: is the builtin code ready for review?17:34
kudvaThe core builtin code and the integration both are17:34
kudvaThe test environment changed (by arosen), before I was using the tests in scripts, would like to do the new tests before submitting. In a couple of days17:35
rajdeepi am having issues getting alert emails from gerrit17:35
rajdeephow do we track CLs coming in for review17:35
arosenrajdeep:  if you go under settings in gerrit you can change your alert settings.17:35
thinrichskudva: OK—let me know when they're ready.  I'm guessing there will be a couple of other things to do: (i) add syntax checkers to make sure people use those builtins properly, and (ii) change our query "optimizer" to order those builtins properly.17:36
thinrichsrajdeep: I haven't found a better way to track what reviews are outstanding other than looking at the list on gerrit.17:37
kudvathinrichs: (i) is clear, what do you mean by (ii)17:37
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thinrichskudva: maybe discuss this offline…it's related to (i)17:37
kudvathinrichs: okay17:37
thinrichs2 other topics to discuss that might eat up time.  Anyone else have status updates?17:38
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skn_Yes, I have started working on the IDS use case for Congress17:38
rajdeepi submitted  a CL to fix neutron driver test case which was failing17:38
skn_I am going to own this up for the Juno summit17:39
thinrichsrajdeep: I have a bunch of changes to the neutron driver during my integration work.  We should sync your change with mine.17:39
thinrichsskn_: can you give us more details?17:40
skn_The first thing I am working on is to add support to Neutron for tap mode17:40
skn_"tap" mode gives us a way to forward L2 traffic to an IDS VM17:40
banixskn_: do you a spec under review in Neutron?17:41
thinrichsHow is that related to the work on service-chaining in neutron?17:41
skn_I am creating a spec, will have to put it in Neutron17:41
banixthere is ongoing discussions under the Advanced Services that also include a proposal for TAPaaS17:42
banixskn_: need to make sure you are aware of the related work happening in Neutron; we an talk offline17:42
skn_banix: Who can I talk to about that?17:42
rajdeepTAPaas sounds scary17:42
banixskn_: start from me :)17:43
skn_banix: hahaha sure.  Let us talk offline on this then17:43
banixThere is an active working group looking into these topics17:43
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banixskn_: just to avoid replicating work, etc….17:44
skn_banix: sure17:44
thinrichs OK.  Time to move on.  We have someone new joining us.17:44
banixdrum rolls17:44
thinrichsWe had a discussion with the Tetris group last week, of which gokul is a member.17:44
thinrichsgokul: want to say a few words about Tetris and why you're here?17:45
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thinrichsLooks like we lost gokul.  Hopefully he'll be back.17:46
banixyeah looks like network disconnection17:46
thinrichsI'll see if I can give a brief overview, and he'll correct me when he gets back.17:47
thinrichsTetris is a policy project aimed at enforcing policy that includes optimization problems.17:47
thinrichsIt has the same kind of scope as Congress: working with any collection of datacenter services.17:47
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thinrichsSo when we talked on the phone, it quickly became clear that Congress and Tetris had very similar goals.17:48
skn_Who are all working on Tetris?17:48
thinrichsIn the end, we decided to combine efforts.17:48
thinrichsgokul is a better person to ask than me.  kudva: do you know?17:49
banixgokul and Kudva have lost connectivity17:49
thinrichsHere's their meeting web page.17:49
thinrichs#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tetris17:49
thinrichsYou can see attendees at the top.17:50
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skn_thinrichs: thanks17:51
thinrichsIn short, having them on board will be really helpful when we move from focusing on monitoring to focusing on enforcement.17:51
skn_kudva is in that meeting, it looks like17:51
thinrichsSpeaking of monitoring and enforcement, I'm starting to believe than monitoring is going to require more work than we had thought.17:52
thinrichsHere's the lowdown on what I learned from my integration work.17:53
thinrichs1. Having tables with lots of columns to represent say Neutron data makes it hard to write policies.17:53
thinrichsHere's one of the tables we currently have.17:53
thinrichsneutron:ports(addr_pairs, security_groups, extra_dhcp_opts, binding_cap, status, name, admin_state_up, network_id, tenant_id, binding_vif, device_owner, mac_address, fixed_ips, port, device_id, binding_host_id1)17:53
thinrichsThis is the ports table—it's got 16 columns.17:54
thinrichsI made 3 separate mistakes writing a simple rule because I had variables in the wrong order, used the same variables in two different predicates (an accidental 'join'), and had the wrong number of arguments.17:54
thinrichsSo in short, I'm trying to figure out how we can make these data sources easier to use for policy writers.17:55
skn_Why do we have to specify all the fields if we are not using them in a policy, for instance?17:55
thinrichsIf people can't write policy easily, they won't.17:55
sarobbecause they are not objects?17:55
sarobrather than list17:56
thinrichsThe abstraction we're imposing on datasources is that they export tables.17:56
thinrichswhere "table" means "database table".17:56
skn_thinrichs: I see17:56
thinrichsPerhaps that's the wrong abstraction.  The reason we chose it is to ensure we can leverage database technology to do policy evaluation.17:56
thinrichsDB technology is good b/c we know we can scale it pretty well.17:57
thinrichsThe question is how we make it easier to write policy yet still retain DB tech part.17:57
skn_thinrichs: we'll need a layer in between to verify/infer facts17:57
thinrichsI have some ideas.  Anyone want to work through this?17:58
sarobthinrichs: yes17:58
sarob2 minutes17:58
skn_we are running out of time17:58
thinrichsI'll put together some options with pros/cons and circulate it.17:58
sarobcan move to congress channel17:58
skn_thinrichs: that'll be great17:58
sarobthinrichs: that would be great17:58
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thinrichsOK.  Anyone wanting to continue, we will jump to #congress.17:59
thinrichsOtherwise, we'll see you next week!17:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 22 18:00:04 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-07-22-17.00.html18:00
skn_thinrichs: Could you just email the write-up with the pro/cons, like you said18:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-07-22-17.00.txt18:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-07-22-17.00.log.html18:00
thinrichsskn_: yes18:00
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briancurtin#startmeeting python-openstacksdk19:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 22 19:00:54 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is briancurtin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)"19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'python_openstacksdk'19:00
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terrylhoweTerry Howe, HP19:01
briancurtinBrian Curtin, Rackspace19:01
jamielennoxJamie Lennox, Red Hat19:02
briancurtini know Ed is at OSCON, and i dont think Alex is around right now, so let's get started and see if dean shows up19:03
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briancurtin#topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104948/ -- add some factories19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104948/ -- add some factories (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)"19:03
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briancurtinjamie had a -1 with a big comment in authenticator.py about keeping up with plugins19:05
jamielennoxi had a -1 on that just because we'll quickly find we can't have a factory for all those things19:05
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jamielennoxit might be worth having that around for example code19:05
terrylhowefair enough.  Are we going to have some automatic way to discover the plugins?19:05
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jamielennoxi've been using entrypoints19:06
jamielennoxspecify a plugin by name19:06
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jamielennoxmaybe the solution for now though is just a big comment to remove this before api stability19:07
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briancurtinim fine with that, or moving it to common for examples19:07
terrylhoweok, a comment would be convenient for now because that code is kind of convenient at the moment19:09
briancurtinworks for me19:09
briancurtin#topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105728/ -- full flavor CRUD19:10
*** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105728/ -- full flavor CRUD (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)"19:10
briancurtini reviewed this earlier and +2ed it a bit ago. seemed straightforward to me19:10
jamielennoxlooks good to me, just haven't had a chance to point it at a real server19:11
briancurtin#topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104987/ -- swift resource19:12
*** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104987/ -- swift resource (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)"19:12
briancurtinthis isn't 100% because i need to go back and figure out Container.list - i had a hack in a previous patch set that i refactored out, but broke it19:13
jamielennoxis https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104987/9/openstack/object_store/v1/container.py and having to do .existing() becoming a pattern?19:14
terrylhoweI just got back from holiday and I haven’t had a chance to try it out19:14
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briancurtinjamielennox: yeah, i think we'll have to do that in a bunch of other places19:16
jamielennoxbriancurtin: it's not terrible, but it feels like something is broken there19:17
briancurtinjamielennox: as in i should do something else to create those objects, or that we should construct Resource differently?19:18
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jamielennoxbriancurtin: i don't know, just normally the output from a .list() is already a resource and i was wondering why it's returning data that needs to be constructed to a resource19:19
jamielennoxas in that loop, why isn't it just for obj in resp: obj.name = self.name19:20
jamielennoxreturn resp19:20
jamielennoxah, obj.container = self.name19:20
terrylhowemaybe the method should be called something else because I would think the list method on a container would return containers19:20
jamielennoxoh, right19:21
jamielennoxyea, terrylhowe i agree19:21
briancurtinterrylhowe: that was one thing that made me think a bit. the account calls give containers, teh container calls give objects19:21
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briancurtinso right now they nest, but i guess they really shouldnt19:21
terrylhoweswift is odd19:22
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briancurtinso if Container.list should list the containers on an account, should i then make Object.list take a container from which to list?19:24
briancurtinalso, where does that leave the list call on Account, which currently gives the containers?19:24
briancurtin...and yes, very odd19:24
terrylhowemaybe we should just hide account19:24
terrylhoweI’d really have to mess with it to form any meaningful opinion though19:25
briancurtini'll take a look at hiding it19:25
jamielennoxi don't know the swift api well enough to comment19:25
briancurtinit made sense while building it to make it nested or cascading, like it currently is, but i'll give what we just talked about a shot19:26
jamielennoxbut maybe this is one where you set list = False and then do container.get_objects() or something19:26
briancurtinshouldn't be too hard to put together a few competing ones now that i've hacked through this current one19:27
terrylhowesounds good19:27
briancurtindean wanted to talk about lower level APIs, but i dont remember anything other than him saying "i want to talk about low level APIs"19:28
briancurtinother than that, anything else on the table right now?19:29
terrylhowenothing here19:30
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:31
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 22 19:31:13 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:31
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-07-22-19.00.html19:31
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-07-22-19.00.txt19:31
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-07-22-19.00.log.html19:31
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briancurtinthanks guys19:32
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