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| dgenin | has libvirt sub-team meeting been cancelled? | 15:07 |
|---|---|---|
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| apmelton | not sure, just realized I was 7 minutes late and joined | 15:08 |
| thomasem | lol | 15:08 |
| dgenin | hmm... | 15:08 |
| thomasem | let me ping danpb | 15:08 |
| mirrorbox | thomasem: I've pinged him on #virt already | 15:09 |
| thomasem | oh okay | 15:09 |
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| dgenin | well, it's not like i have pressing issues but just thought i would check in. | 15:09 |
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| danpb | #startmeeting libvirt | 15:10 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 22 15:10:50 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is danpb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:10 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: libvirt)" | 15:10 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'libvirt' | 15:10 |
| apmelton | o/ | 15:11 |
| thomasem | o/ | 15:11 |
| s1rp_ | o/ | 15:11 |
| sew | o/ | 15:11 |
| dgenin | o/ | 15:11 |
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| danpb | sorry i got side tracked & forgot ... | 15:11 |
| thomasem | No worries, it happens. We just had a topic from our team that we'd really value your input on. | 15:12 |
| danpb | ok, go for it | 15:12 |
| thomasem | So, we're exploring cpu tuning for containers, but, as I'm sure you've seen, /proc/cpuinfo still shows the host's processor info instead of something that better reflects the tuning for the guest, like /proc/meminfo does. | 15:13 |
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| danpb | ah, so this is a real can of worms you'll wish you'd not raised :-) | 15:13 |
| apmelton | haha | 15:14 |
| thomasem | Lol, oh my favorite! | 15:14 |
| danpb | so for a start containers don't really have any concept of virtualized CPUs | 15:14 |
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| apmelton | so with cpushares/quota, you still technically have every cpu, but if you've locked down the cpus with cpusets, I believe you would only have the cpus you've been allocated | 15:14 |
| apmelton | so you can simulate vcpus with cpusets | 15:14 |
| danpb | eg if you tell libvirt <vcpus>3</vcpus> or <vcpus>8</vcpu> <vcpus>whatever</vcpu> it is meaningless | 15:15 |
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| thomasem | mhmm | 15:15 |
| danpb | what containers do give you is the ability to set affinity of the container to the host | 15:15 |
| danpb | so you can say only run this container on host CPUs n->m | 15:15 |
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| danpb | which is done with cgroups cpuset | 15:15 |
| danpb | the /proc/cpuinfo file though is really unrelated to CPU affinity masks | 15:16 |
| danpb | eg, consider if you ignore containers for a minute | 15:16 |
| danpb | and just have a host OS and put apache inside a cpuset cgroup | 15:16 |
| danpb | you then have the exact same scenario wrt /proc/cpuinfo | 15:16 |
| danpb | what this all says to me is that applications should basically ignore /proc/cpuinfo as a way to determine how many CPUs they have available | 15:17 |
| danpb | they need to look at what they are bound to | 15:17 |
| thomasem | How would we inform applications of that? Is it common for applications to inspect /proc/cpuinfo for tuning themselves? | 15:18 |
| danpb | i don't know to be honest - I've been told some (to remain unnamed) large enterprise software parses stuff in /proc/cpuinfo | 15:18 |
| apmelton | heh | 15:19 |
| thomasem | hmmm | 15:19 |
| danpb | i kind of see this is a somewhat of a gap in the Linux ecosystem API | 15:19 |
| danpb | nothing is really providing apps a good library API to determine available CPU / RAM availability | 15:19 |
| thomasem | I see where you're coming from | 15:20 |
| danpb | i kind of feel the same way about /proc/meminfo - what we hacked up in libvirt is really not container specific - same issue with any app that wants to see "available 'host' memory" which is confined by cgroups memory controller | 15:20 |
| sew | so wrt vcpu and flavors for containers, we're considering just setting vcpu to zero for our lxc flavors - does that sound reasonable? | 15:21 |
| danpb | so in that sense I (at least partially) regret that we added overriding of /proc/meminfo into libvirt | 15:21 |
| danpb | sew: not sure about that actually | 15:22 |
| danpb | sew: it depends how things interact with the NUMA/CPU pinning stuff I'm working on | 15:22 |
| thomasem | What would you have in place of the /proc/meminfo solution in Libvirt to provide guests a normal way of understanding its capabilities? | 15:22 |
| danpb | sew: we're aiming to avoid directly exposing the idea of setting a CPU affinity mask to the user/admin | 15:22 |
| apmelton | danpb: working on that in libvirt or nova's libvirt drive? | 15:22 |
| danpb | sew: so the flavour would just say "want exclusive CPU pinning" | 15:23 |
| danpb | and then libvirt nova driver would figure out what host CPUs to pin the guest to | 15:23 |
| sew | interesting concept danpb | 15:23 |
| danpb | so to be able todo that, we need the vcpus number set to a sensible value | 15:23 |
| apmelton | ah, danpb, so we could mimic vcpus for containers with that? | 15:23 |
| danpb | just so that we can figure out how many host CPUs to pin the guest to | 15:23 |
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| danpb | even though when we pass this vcpu value onto libvirt it will be ignored | 15:24 |
| danpb | IOW from Nova flavour level, vcpus is still useful even though it isn't useful at libvirt level | 15:24 |
| danpb | apmelton: it is a Juno feature for Nova libvirt driver | 15:24 |
| apmelton | ah really, I wasn't aware of that, how do you use it? | 15:25 |
| danpb | thomasem: ultimately i think there needs to be some kind fo API to more easily query cgroup confinement / resource availability | 15:25 |
| danpb | apmelton: big picture is outlined here https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtDriverGuestCPUMemoryPlacement | 15:25 |
| thomasem | Ah, so a process, whether in a full container guest, or simply under a single cgroup limitation can find its boundaries? | 15:25 |
| danpb | thomasem: yeah, pretty much | 15:26 |
| thomasem | Hmmm, I wonder how we could pursue that, tbh. | 15:26 |
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| thomasem | Start a chat on ze mailing list for LXC? | 15:26 |
| thomasem | Or perhaps work like that is already underway? | 15:26 |
| danpb | with the way systemd is rising to a standard in linux, and the owner of cgroups, it is possible that systemd's DBus APIs might be the way forward | 15:26 |
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| thomasem | oh okay | 15:27 |
| thomasem | interesting | 15:27 |
| danpb | but i'm fairly sure there's more that systemd would need to expose in this respect still | 15:27 |
| danpb | overall though the current view is that Systemd will be the exclusive owner of all things cgroup related - libvirt and other apps need to talk to systemd to make changes to cgroups config | 15:28 |
| sew | systemd does seem like the logical place for all that to happen | 15:28 |
| thomasem | gotcha | 15:28 |
| thomasem | Something to research and pursue, then. | 15:28 |
| danpb | that all said, if there's a compelling reason for libvirt to fake /proc/cpuinfo for sake of compatibility we might be able to explore that upstream | 15:31 |
| danpb | just that it would really be a work of pure fiction based solely on the <vcpu> value from the XML that does nothing from a functional POV :-) | 15:31 |
| thomasem | Yeah, we'd be lying. | 15:31 |
| thomasem | lol | 15:31 |
| danpb | for added fun, /proc/cpuinfo is utterly different for each CPU architecture - thanks linux :-( | 15:32 |
| apmelton | danpb: wouldn't it be better to base it off cpupinning? | 15:32 |
| thomasem | It's just the question of whether it's better to lie closer to the truth :P | 15:32 |
| apmelton | or is that not supported with libvirt-lxc? | 15:32 |
| danpb | you can do guest pinning with libivrt lxc | 15:32 |
| apmelton | for instance, instead of ignoring the vcpu value in lxc, could libvirt translate that into cpu pins? | 15:33 |
| danpb | if the kernel ever introduced a cgroup tunable "max N number of processes concurrently in running state for schedular" that would conceptually work for a vcpu value but that's probalby not likely to happen | 15:33 |
| apmelton | heh | 15:34 |
| danpb | apmelton: that would mean the guests were always pinned even when pinning is not requested | 15:34 |
| danpb | which is something i'd prefer to avoid since while it works ok as you startup a sequence of guests | 15:34 |
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| danpb | once you shutdown a few & start some new ones, you end up very unbalanced in placement | 15:34 |
| apmelton | yea, that gets complex fast | 15:34 |
| danpb | you'd have to have libvirt constantly re-pinning containers to balance things out again | 15:35 |
| apmelton | ok, that makes sense | 15:36 |
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| thomasem | regarding faking /proc/cpuinfo for compatibility, I am not immediately aware of an application use-case that would look for that. Can anyone think of an issue with the guest being able to see the host processor info in general (in a multi-tenant env)? | 15:39 |
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| danpb | i don't think there's any real information leakage problems | 15:40 |
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| thomasem | Okay | 15:41 |
| dgenin | maybe if you new that the data you were after was on a particular type of node you could use /proc/cpuinfo to navigate the cloud | 15:41 |
| dgenin | just an idea | 15:42 |
| danpb | dgenin: the /proc/cpuinfo file is pretty low entropy as far as identifying information is concerned | 15:43 |
| danpb | particularly as clouds will involve large pools of identical hardware | 15:44 |
| dgenin | true, there are bound to be many nodes with the same cpuinfo | 15:44 |
| danpb | there's many other easier ways to identify hosts | 15:44 |
| dgenin | what do you have in mind? | 15:44 |
| danpb | sysfs exposes host UUIDs :-) | 15:46 |
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| dgenin | yeah, but the attacker is not likely to know something so precise | 15:47 |
| dgenin | another possibility is that cpuinfo is not sufficient alone but it could be combined with other identifying information to pidgeonhole the node | 15:47 |
| danpb | any other agenda items to discuss, or we can call it a wrap | 15:47 |
| thomasem | Not from me. I have stuff to think about now. :) | 15:48 |
| thomasem | Not like I didn't before, but more now. hehe. | 15:48 |
| sew | thx for the background on cpuinfo danpb | 15:49 |
| danpb | ok, till next week.... | 15:49 |
| danpb | #endmeeting | 15:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 22 15:49:30 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/libvirt/2014/libvirt.2014-07-22-15.10.html | 15:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/libvirt/2014/libvirt.2014-07-22-15.10.txt | 15:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/libvirt/2014/libvirt.2014-07-22-15.10.log.html | 15:49 |
| thomasem | Thanks, everyone! | 15:49 |
| dgenin | bye! | 15:49 |
| apmelton | \o | 15:50 |
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| david-lyle | #startmeeting Horizon | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 22 16:00:52 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 16:00 |
| david-lyle | Hello everyone | 16:01 |
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| tmazur | hello o/ | 16:01 |
| jgravel | hi | 16:01 |
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| clu_ | hi! | 16:01 |
| asahlin | Hello | 16:01 |
| tsufiev | hi | 16:01 |
| amotoki | hi | 16:01 |
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| crobertsrh | hello/ | 16:02 |
| david-lyle | I think EuroPython is going on right now and we have a few that won't make it to this meeting as a result | 16:02 |
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| david-lyle | J-2 closes on July 24 | 16:03 |
| david-lyle | https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/juno-2 | 16:03 |
| david-lyle | we have a lot of items that still need review | 16:03 |
| david-lyle | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/bootstrap-update is a large item that I would like to discuss first | 16:04 |
| david-lyle | Tihomir proposed merging it and fixing the bugs related to the merge rather than trying to fix everything up front | 16:05 |
| david-lyle | I think this is a good idea | 16:05 |
| jrist | o/ | 16:05 |
| david-lyle | would like to know if there is a strong opposition to this path | 16:05 |
| jrist | +1 | 16:05 |
| doug-fish | none here. Getting that in is the path to getting it right. | 16:06 |
| ericpeterson | +! | 16:06 |
| ericpeterson | +1 | 16:06 |
| tqtran | +1 | 16:06 |
| clu_ | +1! | 16:06 |
| amotoki | agree. good direction | 16:06 |
| david-lyle | so horizon in j-2 will have some visual issues | 16:06 |
| david-lyle | I think that's fine, as it's not the final juno release | 16:07 |
| clu_ | it'll be easy to add small patches afterwards :) | 16:07 |
| jrist | s/easy/easier/g | 16:07 |
| david-lyle | ok, it's on it's long journey through the gate process | 16:08 |
| clu_ | should we write bug reports for that or just go off the etherpad list when picking off bugs? | 16:08 |
| david-lyle | there are a few sahara patches that need another +2 | 16:08 |
| david-lyle | this is another case where I think we can only fix so much before we merge it | 16:09 |
| ericpeterson | clu_ : I would prefer to have real bugs entered vs just a etherpad line of text | 16:09 |
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| david-lyle | remove the most egregious errors and move on to fix | 16:09 |
| doug-fish | +1 on ericpeterson's suggestion | 16:10 |
| david-lyle | two items are still blocked by requirements changes | 16:10 |
| david-lyle | ericpeterson, doug-fish definitely should be launchpad bugs | 16:10 |
| clu_ | ericpeterson - okey, will open and tag bug reports with 'bootstrap' or something | 16:10 |
| david-lyle | clu_: thanks | 16:11 |
| clu_ | np :) | 16:11 |
| david-lyle | so please keep up with the reviews and let's get a few more bps merged into j-2 | 16:12 |
| david-lyle | the rest will slip to j-3 | 16:12 |
| david-lyle | That's the only item I had for the agenda today | 16:13 |
| david-lyle | #topic Open Discussion | 16:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:13 | |
| crobertsrh | I think you covered my usual bit on sahara merge reviews....thanks. | 16:13 |
| ericpeterson | anyone have some insight into when builds will get a bit more predictable ???? | 16:14 |
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| ericpeterson | the gozer / zuul / review jobs / whatever stuff I mean | 16:14 |
| david-lyle | ericpeterson: not really, there has been some discussion of the problem on the mailing list, but I haven't seen a road to an improvement yet | 16:15 |
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| tqtran | Clientside table rendering could use some love. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/94706/ | 16:16 |
| ericpeterson | a developer can dream, I guess | 16:16 |
| david-lyle | unfortunately most of these bugs in the gating process are either race conditions in the tests, or issues in the code illuminated by the timing of the tests running | 16:16 |
| doug-fish | Not a blueprint, but a bug fix I'd love to se go into j-2: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91338/ It's an enabler for making better translations for other panels too. | 16:16 |
| david-lyle | doug-fish I like fixing the issue, but oh my the solution is ugly | 16:17 |
| david-lyle | no offense to ygbo | 16:18 |
| doug-fish | lol | 16:18 |
| tqtran | yeah, i think it can be done in a smaller patch | 16:18 |
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| david-lyle | you went from a one line class property to many line of method call for every action | 16:18 |
| tqtran | heres something else to consider doug, the angular patch im introducing will help with translation as well | 16:19 |
| david-lyle | seems like we could make it more developer friendly to get right | 16:19 |
| tqtran | everything gets serialize to json, including the batch action names | 16:19 |
| david-lyle | I'll leave my comments, as I see I forgot to last time I looked at the patch | 16:19 |
| tsufiev | if anyone is already tired with modal forms losing modality when FileInput appears, the patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/107769/ is ready for review | 16:19 |
| doug-fish | david-lyle: cool, thx - will be good to get attention on that and see if those concerns can be addressed | 16:20 |
| clu_ | tsufiev: YES!!! | 16:20 |
| doug-fish | tqtran: I actually didn't realized the angular fix would change that processing, I'll have to look at that more closely. | 16:20 |
| tsufiev | clu_, I know you would be interested :) | 16:20 |
| david-lyle | tsufiev: I'll take a look | 16:21 |
| tsufiev | david-lyle, thank you :) | 16:21 |
| tqtran | doug: it doesnt fix the processing, but it does make it easier | 16:22 |
| david-lyle | tqtran: I'm trying to make it to the clientside table patch | 16:23 |
| tqtran | david: awesome =) | 16:23 |
| tqtran | would love to get some feedback from others before you get there | 16:23 |
| amotoki | BTW, I would like to know some pointers related to review guidelines. I think there are some references on I18N and UX review guidelines but I couldn't find them so far... | 16:24 |
| amotoki | if anyone has links, it will be appreciated. | 16:24 |
| doug-fish | maybe https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/I18n/TranslatableStrings | 16:25 |
| amotoki | doug-fish: thanks. that's what I am looking for. | 16:25 |
| doug-fish | cool, yw | 16:25 |
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| amotoki | i will add it to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Horizon/Reviews after the meeting. | 16:26 |
| amotoki | If anyone knows good guidelines or referecens for reviews, please add information to the above page. I would like to collect pointers to share. | 16:27 |
| gugl | Also appreciate a good guideline for exception handling in Horizon. Have notice quite bit of code catched the exception, but lost it when present to the user. | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | just typed some stuff in the wrong window | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | :)_ | 16:33 |
| asahlin | amotoki: As a newbie, a central place with pointers to documentation would be extremely helpful | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | let's review this to make sure it's accurate and helpful | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/100718/ | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | the old tutorial is just cruel | 16:34 |
| gugl | david-lyle, thanks | 16:34 |
| david-lyle | Any additional items? | 16:37 |
| tqtran | just something in the back of my mind, we need more code control for javascripts | 16:38 |
| david-lyle | code control? | 16:38 |
| david-lyle | like verification tools? | 16:38 |
| tqtran | some files define functions a certain way, others a another way | 16:38 |
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| tqtran | and the styling is all over the place | 16:38 |
| david-lyle | yes | 16:39 |
| david-lyle | :) | 16:39 |
| rbertram | thinking of jshint settings? | 16:39 |
| tqtran | yes =) | 16:40 |
| tqtran | i think we should recommend a tool/plugin for people to use with certain settings | 16:40 |
| tqtran | that way, its all consistent and easier to review/read/code | 16:40 |
| doug-fish | I'm sure I saw I patch to intergrate jshint into our automated testing | 16:40 |
| rbertram | jshint plugs into most editors | 16:40 |
| doug-fish | but can't recall where it is just now | 16:41 |
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| david-lyle | we've gone through a round of jshint standardization, there is a bp to use node based tools in the dev environment | 16:41 |
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| david-lyle | doug-fish: there was a license issue | 16:41 |
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| david-lyle | was merged, pulled back out in icehouse | 16:41 |
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| david-lyle | "do no evil" | 16:41 |
| tzumainn | is it this patch? | 16:41 |
| tzumainn | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97237/ | 16:41 |
| doug-fish | I thought there was a new and improved version that came about later | 16:41 |
| tzumainn | ah | 16:42 |
| doug-fish | tzumainn, yeah that's it! | 16:42 |
| david-lyle | whoa, totally missed that | 16:42 |
| david-lyle | thanks | 16:42 |
| rbertram | I assume the license problem was with jshint and not with node? | 16:43 |
| doug-fish | right | 16:43 |
| doug-fish | The jshint developer added an extra clause to the license | 16:43 |
| doug-fish | which causes lawyers great concern | 16:44 |
| tqtran | lol | 16:44 |
| rbertram | yep, I've run into the "do no evil" clause before | 16:44 |
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| tqtran | "do no evil" sounds like google | 16:44 |
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| rbertram | Did the jshint license cause it to be pulled from the build? Still OK for dev environments? | 16:46 |
| tqtran | so whats is the procedure to formalize/propose code styling guidelines? | 16:47 |
| doug-fish | rbertram certainly okay for dev environments | 16:47 |
| tqtran | i think jshint is nice to have, but we should provide an independent guideline that "could" work with jshint | 16:47 |
| doug-fish | well, unless you are using it for evil. :-) | 16:47 |
| david-lyle | the "evil" is more a problem for distros | 16:47 |
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| amotoki | if we pass DFSG and Fedora, it is okay in most cases :-) | 16:49 |
| rbertram | tqtran: I agree. The guideline should cover the kinds of things jshint covers, and some other things specific to AngularJS and jQuery. | 16:49 |
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| david-lyle | tqtran: volunteering? | 16:50 |
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| tqtran | david: sure =) | 16:50 |
| * david-lyle ducks | 16:50 | |
| tqtran | lol | 16:50 |
| rbertram | tqtran: I'll be glad to help | 16:50 |
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| david-lyle | tqtran, rbertram: thanks | 16:50 |
| tqtran | rbertram: awesome, thanks | 16:50 |
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| amotoki | i would like to know your opinion on extension supported aliases in api/neutron.py. | 16:52 |
| amotoki | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74066/8/openstack_dashboard/api/neutron.py | 16:52 |
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| david-lyle | amotoki: seems like we should have a generalized capabilities method for neutron that is memoized | 16:53 |
| amotoki | in api/neutron.py there are several number of wrapper methods for extension, but most of them are unnecesssrty | 16:53 |
| david-lyle | is a general method not supported in neutron | 16:53 |
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| amotoki | is_extension_supported() method is already memoized. | 16:54 |
| amotoki | So I think we don't need wrapper methods per extension. | 16:54 |
| david-lyle | amotoki: so it is, and I agree | 16:55 |
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| david-lyle | didn't expand enough code above before | 16:55 |
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| amotoki | david-lyle: thanks. i will ask patch authors to remove them and i will clean up existing ones. | 16:56 |
| david-lyle | amotoki: thanks for point it out, I think sometimes gerrit collapsing unchanged code is a disservice | 16:56 |
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| david-lyle | s/point/pointing/ | 16:57 |
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| amotoki | david-lyle: that's all I have after catching up horizon reviews :-) | 16:57 |
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| david-lyle | Let's call it. Thanks everyone. Keep up with the reviews and have a great week. | 16:58 |
| david-lyle | #endmeeting | 16:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 22 16:58:07 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-07-22-16.00.html | 16:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-07-22-16.00.txt | 16:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-07-22-16.00.log.html | 16:58 |
| amotoki | thanks all! | 16:58 |
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| thinrichs | #startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 22 17:00:38 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thinrichs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting' | 17:00 |
| thinrichs | Hi all | 17:00 |
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| banix | hi | 17:01 |
| arosen | Hi | 17:01 |
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| skn_ | Hi guys, sorry could not join last week's meeting | 17:01 |
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| thinrichs | skn_: no worries | 17:01 |
| rajdeep | hi all | 17:02 |
| thinrichs | pballand is out this week | 17:02 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep: hi | 17:02 |
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| thinrichs | cloudtoad: you joining? | 17:02 |
| thinrichs | sarob: Congress time | 17:02 |
| rajdeep | hi thinrichs | 17:02 |
| skn_ | Did we move all the specs to congress-spec? | 17:02 |
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| thinrichs | skn_: let's wait for sarob to answer that | 17:03 |
| skn_ | ok | 17:03 |
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| thinrichs | I managed to put the agenda up on the google doc. | 17:03 |
| thinrichs | https://docs.google.com/a/vmware.com/document/d/1p0-3mqtvtm7Yf3KnyrhuX_JMZJnrGlJhs2RoJkIezvI/edit# | 17:03 |
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| thinrichs | I guess we'll start with status updates | 17:04 |
| skn_ | why can't I access the doc? | 17:04 |
| thinrichs | Hmmm… everyone with action items from last week hasn't arrived yet. | 17:04 |
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| arosen | skn_: nope not yet but soon. | 17:04 |
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| skn_ | ok | 17:05 |
| thinrichs | skn_: not sure—let me see if I can change rights. | 17:05 |
| arosen | skn_: there was a bug in the config file for create the congress-specs repo so we didn't have gatting setup there. We're waiting till that patch merges before we move everything out. | 17:05 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: thanks | 17:05 |
| rajdeep | thinrichs did you create it with your vmware id | 17:05 |
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| sarob | im here | 17:05 |
| sarob | sorry double duty with the board meeting | 17:06 |
| skn_ | arosen: Got it | 17:06 |
| thinrichs | sarob: glad you could make it | 17:06 |
| sarob | i just got the congress-specs acls merged | 17:06 |
| thinrichs | pballand made the doc. I don't see how to make it publically avail. | 17:06 |
| sarob | thinrichs::) | 17:06 |
| sarob | congress-specs should be up on running today | 17:06 |
| thinrichs | sarob: great! | 17:07 |
| rajdeep | you can't | 17:07 |
| sarob | i will start migrating the existing specs and idenifying gaps | 17:07 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: May be, you can just copy and upload a with your permission or something :) | 17:07 |
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| thinrichs | Let's let sarob report while he's able. We can deal with agenda, etc. later. | 17:07 |
| thinrichs | sarob: I see 2 other action items for you. The policy-summit and the mid-cycle operators summit. Anything to report?\ | 17:08 |
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| thinrichs | Maybe sarob got pulled away. | 17:09 |
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| thinrichs | Agenda was simple: (i) status updates and (ii) a couple of discussion items: Tetris (another policy project) and some things I've learned while integrating) | 17:09 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: the agenda was for the policy summit? | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | skn_: for this meeting | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | I believe the policy-summit agenda is simple so far. | 17:10 |
| sarob | sorry back | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | Day 1: everyone talks about their policy projects | 17:10 |
| skn_ | oh shoot, I thought the policy summit | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | Day 2: we discuss integrating | 17:10 |
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| sarob | policy summit is set for 18-19 sep | 17:10 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: Sounds right to me | 17:11 |
| sarob | likely vmware location | 17:11 |
| sarob | im going to coordinate with pierre | 17:11 |
| sarob | from vmware | 17:11 |
| sarob | location wise | 17:11 |
| skn_ | sarob: SFO? | 17:11 |
| thinrichs | sarob: sounds good | 17:11 |
| sarob | palo alto | 17:11 |
| skn_ | ok | 17:11 |
| sarob | the operators summit, we likely will part of the working session part | 17:12 |
| sarob | still working out with tom | 17:12 |
| thinrichs | for the operators summit, do we give a talk with slides, a demo, a poster, what? | 17:12 |
| sarob | its very crowded for topics | 17:13 |
| skn_ | operator summit, you mean the San Antonio one? | 17:13 |
| sarob | so we are going to be part of the working session | 17:13 |
| sarob | skn_ yup | 17:13 |
| sarob | any questions? | 17:14 |
| skn_ | what's the working session supposed to contain? | 17:14 |
| sarob | blueprints, telco, enterprise, ops tools | 17:15 |
| sarob | collection of other stuff | 17:15 |
| thinrichs | sarob: so we get a desk and can do a demo, put up a poster? Is that the idea? | 17:15 |
| skn_ | so, we want to put in our blueprints in there? or something else? | 17:16 |
| sarob | skn_: its more general on the ops interaction with blueprints i believe | 17:16 |
| sarob | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p7gCZcLhmYnMC_Ab2N23Nndy3pAnTmtvpBvcvaOZb0Q/edit#gid=0 | 17:16 |
| sarob | this is the prelim ops mini-summit schedule | 17:17 |
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| skn_ | which session could we be part of? | 17:17 |
| thinrichs | Monday 1330 - 1415 | 17:18 |
| sarob | monday 25th aug 1330-1500 | 17:18 |
| sarob | yup | 17:18 |
| thinrichs | called "Working Sessions" | 17:18 |
| sarob | its breakout groups | 17:18 |
| skn_ | Oh okay | 17:19 |
| sarob | it is a really busy couple of days | 17:19 |
| skn_ | So we get to present along with other WIP projects? | 17:19 |
| sarob | this is not really for projects, rather ops topics | 17:20 |
| sarob | like storage is general rather than ceph, swift, or cinder | 17:20 |
| skn_ | sarob: ok. So what do you think our plan should be? | 17:20 |
| sarob | overview of congress, strategy working with mulitple data sources, demo | 17:21 |
| skn_ | sarob: oh okay, got it. | 17:22 |
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| sarob | ill work to identify a few priority ops users if we can wrangle their attention for the working session | 17:22 |
| sarob | show and tell time | 17:22 |
| sarob | get some feedback | 17:23 |
| thinrichs | that'd be great! | 17:23 |
| skn_ | sarob: sounds like a plan | 17:23 |
| thinrichs | Anything else to discuss around either of the summits? | 17:23 |
| skn_ | I can help out on slides | 17:23 |
| sarob | skn_: sounds great | 17:24 |
| sarob | we can start dig details for the policy summit | 17:24 |
| sarob | i wanted to get the specs going first | 17:24 |
| sarob | so later this week, we start | 17:25 |
| thinrichs | sarob: sounds good. Let's make sure we do our best to get everyone working on policy an invite. | 17:25 |
| skn_ | Who are we inviting for the policy summit, other than we Congress guys? Did you reach out to them? | 17:26 |
| sarob | okay | 17:26 |
| sarob | i have reached out to the dev ML and directly to a few PTLs | 17:26 |
| thinrichs | skn_: sarob is sending invites to a list of contacts. | 17:26 |
| skn_ | sarob: That's awesome! PTLs would be great | 17:27 |
| sarob | once we have the agenda set, I will get more aggressive | 17:27 |
| skn_ | Let me know how I could help you, we don't want to burn you out | 17:28 |
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| skn_ | Please CC/BCC us too ;) | 17:28 |
| thinrichs | I think it's time to move on. | 17:29 |
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| thinrichs | Other status updates... | 17:30 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: yes, please. | 17:30 |
| thinrichs | arosen: want to report what you're up to? | 17:30 |
| arosen | So pretty much on the same path as last week. | 17:30 |
| arosen | I have the keystone integration and policy.json integration up for review. | 17:30 |
| arosen | I should pretty much be down with this soon. I want to add a file that describes how this integration is done. Once i do that hopefully we can merge it | 17:31 |
| arosen | definitely eager to get some reviews on it but most of the code is boiler plate stuff that i stole from neutron/nova/keystone. | 17:31 |
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| arosen | that's it from me. | 17:31 |
| kudva | Hi | 17:31 |
| kudva | Sorry, I joined late | 17:31 |
| thinrichs | It'd be great if we could spread out the reviewing some more. | 17:31 |
| thinrichs | kudva: hi | 17:31 |
| kudva | Hi | 17:31 |
| thinrichs | I'm not especially well-versed in the OS way, so having banix and skn_ do some reviews of this keystone integration could be good. | 17:32 |
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| skn_ | Sure, I could review | 17:32 |
| gokul | hello | 17:32 |
| banix | thinrichs: there were a lot of changes happening last week; now seem to be in a more stable state? | 17:32 |
| banix | thinrichs: yes sure will do | 17:32 |
| thinrichs | banix: yes—certainly more stable | 17:32 |
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| thinrichs | kudva: now that you're here, want to give us a status update? | 17:33 |
| thinrichs | gokul: hello | 17:33 |
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| gokul | hi thinrichs: hi -- apologize for the delay. i forgot the meeting time. | 17:33 |
| sarob | it would be great to get each contributor doing 2-3 reviews per day | 17:33 |
| thinrichs | gokul: no worries—glad you made it! | 17:33 |
| kudva | Last week was crazy for me since I had to give a talk elsewhere. Not much update this week. next week, I will have some | 17:33 |
| thinrichs | sarob: agreed | 17:34 |
| thinrichs | kudva: is the builtin code ready for review? | 17:34 |
| kudva | The core builtin code and the integration both are | 17:34 |
| kudva | The test environment changed (by arosen), before I was using the tests in scripts, would like to do the new tests before submitting. In a couple of days | 17:35 |
| rajdeep | i am having issues getting alert emails from gerrit | 17:35 |
| rajdeep | how do we track CLs coming in for review | 17:35 |
| arosen | rajdeep: if you go under settings in gerrit you can change your alert settings. | 17:35 |
| thinrichs | kudva: OK—let me know when they're ready. I'm guessing there will be a couple of other things to do: (i) add syntax checkers to make sure people use those builtins properly, and (ii) change our query "optimizer" to order those builtins properly. | 17:36 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep: I haven't found a better way to track what reviews are outstanding other than looking at the list on gerrit. | 17:37 |
| kudva | thinrichs: (i) is clear, what do you mean by (ii) | 17:37 |
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| thinrichs | kudva: maybe discuss this offline…it's related to (i) | 17:37 |
| kudva | thinrichs: okay | 17:37 |
| thinrichs | 2 other topics to discuss that might eat up time. Anyone else have status updates? | 17:38 |
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| skn_ | Yes, I have started working on the IDS use case for Congress | 17:38 |
| rajdeep | i submitted a CL to fix neutron driver test case which was failing | 17:38 |
| skn_ | I am going to own this up for the Juno summit | 17:39 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep: I have a bunch of changes to the neutron driver during my integration work. We should sync your change with mine. | 17:39 |
| rajdeep | ok.. | 17:40 |
| thinrichs | skn_: can you give us more details? | 17:40 |
| skn_ | The first thing I am working on is to add support to Neutron for tap mode | 17:40 |
| skn_ | "tap" mode gives us a way to forward L2 traffic to an IDS VM | 17:40 |
| banix | skn_: do you a spec under review in Neutron? | 17:41 |
| thinrichs | How is that related to the work on service-chaining in neutron? | 17:41 |
| skn_ | I am creating a spec, will have to put it in Neutron | 17:41 |
| banix | there is ongoing discussions under the Advanced Services that also include a proposal for TAPaaS | 17:42 |
| banix | skn_: need to make sure you are aware of the related work happening in Neutron; we an talk offline | 17:42 |
| skn_ | banix: Who can I talk to about that? | 17:42 |
| rajdeep | TAPaas sounds scary | 17:42 |
| skn_ | Yes | 17:43 |
| rajdeep | :) | 17:43 |
| banix | skn_: start from me :) | 17:43 |
| skn_ | banix: hahaha sure. Let us talk offline on this then | 17:43 |
| banix | There is an active working group looking into these topics | 17:43 |
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| banix | skn_: just to avoid replicating work, etc…. | 17:44 |
| skn_ | banix: sure | 17:44 |
| thinrichs | OK. Time to move on. We have someone new joining us. | 17:44 |
| banix | drum rolls | 17:44 |
| thinrichs | We had a discussion with the Tetris group last week, of which gokul is a member. | 17:44 |
| thinrichs | gokul: want to say a few words about Tetris and why you're here? | 17:45 |
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| thinrichs | Looks like we lost gokul. Hopefully he'll be back. | 17:46 |
| banix | yeah looks like network disconnection | 17:46 |
| thinrichs | I'll see if I can give a brief overview, and he'll correct me when he gets back. | 17:47 |
| thinrichs | Tetris is a policy project aimed at enforcing policy that includes optimization problems. | 17:47 |
| thinrichs | It has the same kind of scope as Congress: working with any collection of datacenter services. | 17:47 |
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| thinrichs | So when we talked on the phone, it quickly became clear that Congress and Tetris had very similar goals. | 17:48 |
| skn_ | Who are all working on Tetris? | 17:48 |
| thinrichs | In the end, we decided to combine efforts. | 17:48 |
| thinrichs | gokul is a better person to ask than me. kudva: do you know? | 17:49 |
| banix | gokul and Kudva have lost connectivity | 17:49 |
| thinrichs | Here's their meeting web page. | 17:49 |
| thinrichs | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tetris | 17:49 |
| thinrichs | You can see attendees at the top. | 17:50 |
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| skn_ | thinrichs: thanks | 17:51 |
| thinrichs | In short, having them on board will be really helpful when we move from focusing on monitoring to focusing on enforcement. | 17:51 |
| skn_ | kudva is in that meeting, it looks like | 17:51 |
| thinrichs | Speaking of monitoring and enforcement, I'm starting to believe than monitoring is going to require more work than we had thought. | 17:52 |
| thinrichs | Here's the lowdown on what I learned from my integration work. | 17:53 |
| thinrichs | 1. Having tables with lots of columns to represent say Neutron data makes it hard to write policies. | 17:53 |
| thinrichs | Here's one of the tables we currently have. | 17:53 |
| thinrichs | neutron:ports(addr_pairs, security_groups, extra_dhcp_opts, binding_cap, status, name, admin_state_up, network_id, tenant_id, binding_vif, device_owner, mac_address, fixed_ips, port, device_id, binding_host_id1) | 17:53 |
| thinrichs | This is the ports table—it's got 16 columns. | 17:54 |
| thinrichs | I made 3 separate mistakes writing a simple rule because I had variables in the wrong order, used the same variables in two different predicates (an accidental 'join'), and had the wrong number of arguments. | 17:54 |
| thinrichs | So in short, I'm trying to figure out how we can make these data sources easier to use for policy writers. | 17:55 |
| skn_ | Why do we have to specify all the fields if we are not using them in a policy, for instance? | 17:55 |
| thinrichs | If people can't write policy easily, they won't. | 17:55 |
| sarob | because they are not objects? | 17:55 |
| sarob | rather than list | 17:56 |
| thinrichs | The abstraction we're imposing on datasources is that they export tables. | 17:56 |
| sarob | array | 17:56 |
| thinrichs | where "table" means "database table". | 17:56 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: I see | 17:56 |
| thinrichs | Perhaps that's the wrong abstraction. The reason we chose it is to ensure we can leverage database technology to do policy evaluation. | 17:56 |
| thinrichs | DB technology is good b/c we know we can scale it pretty well. | 17:57 |
| thinrichs | The question is how we make it easier to write policy yet still retain DB tech part. | 17:57 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: we'll need a layer in between to verify/infer facts | 17:57 |
| thinrichs | I have some ideas. Anyone want to work through this? | 17:58 |
| sarob | thinrichs: yes | 17:58 |
| sarob | 2 minutes | 17:58 |
| skn_ | we are running out of time | 17:58 |
| thinrichs | I'll put together some options with pros/cons and circulate it. | 17:58 |
| skn_ | yes | 17:58 |
| sarob | can move to congress channel | 17:58 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: that'll be great | 17:58 |
| sarob | thinrichs: that would be great | 17:58 |
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| thinrichs | OK. Anyone wanting to continue, we will jump to #congress. | 17:59 |
| thinrichs | Otherwise, we'll see you next week! | 17:59 |
| banix | bye | 17:59 |
| thinrichs | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 22 18:00:04 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-07-22-17.00.html | 18:00 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: Could you just email the write-up with the pro/cons, like you said | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-07-22-17.00.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-07-22-17.00.log.html | 18:00 |
| thinrichs | skn_: yes | 18:00 |
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| briancurtin | #startmeeting python-openstacksdk | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 22 19:00:54 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is briancurtin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'python_openstacksdk' | 19:00 |
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| terrylhowe | Terry Howe, HP | 19:01 |
| briancurtin | Brian Curtin, Rackspace | 19:01 |
| jamielennox | Jamie Lennox, Red Hat | 19:02 |
| briancurtin | i know Ed is at OSCON, and i dont think Alex is around right now, so let's get started and see if dean shows up | 19:03 |
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| briancurtin | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104948/ -- add some factories | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104948/ -- add some factories (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:03 | |
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| briancurtin | jamie had a -1 with a big comment in authenticator.py about keeping up with plugins | 19:05 |
| jamielennox | i had a -1 on that just because we'll quickly find we can't have a factory for all those things | 19:05 |
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| jamielennox | it might be worth having that around for example code | 19:05 |
| terrylhowe | fair enough. Are we going to have some automatic way to discover the plugins? | 19:05 |
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| jamielennox | i've been using entrypoints | 19:06 |
| jamielennox | specify a plugin by name | 19:06 |
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| jamielennox | maybe the solution for now though is just a big comment to remove this before api stability | 19:07 |
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| briancurtin | im fine with that, or moving it to common for examples | 19:07 |
| terrylhowe | ok, a comment would be convenient for now because that code is kind of convenient at the moment | 19:09 |
| briancurtin | works for me | 19:09 |
| briancurtin | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105728/ -- full flavor CRUD | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105728/ -- full flavor CRUD (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:10 | |
| briancurtin | i reviewed this earlier and +2ed it a bit ago. seemed straightforward to me | 19:10 |
| jamielennox | looks good to me, just haven't had a chance to point it at a real server | 19:11 |
| jamielennox | +A | 19:11 |
| briancurtin | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104987/ -- swift resource | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104987/ -- swift resource (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:12 | |
| briancurtin | this isn't 100% because i need to go back and figure out Container.list - i had a hack in a previous patch set that i refactored out, but broke it | 19:13 |
| jamielennox | is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104987/9/openstack/object_store/v1/container.py and having to do .existing() becoming a pattern? | 19:14 |
| jamielennox | :61 | 19:14 |
| terrylhowe | I just got back from holiday and I haven’t had a chance to try it out | 19:14 |
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| briancurtin | jamielennox: yeah, i think we'll have to do that in a bunch of other places | 19:16 |
| jamielennox | briancurtin: it's not terrible, but it feels like something is broken there | 19:17 |
| briancurtin | jamielennox: as in i should do something else to create those objects, or that we should construct Resource differently? | 19:18 |
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| jamielennox | briancurtin: i don't know, just normally the output from a .list() is already a resource and i was wondering why it's returning data that needs to be constructed to a resource | 19:19 |
| jamielennox | as in that loop, why isn't it just for obj in resp: obj.name = self.name | 19:20 |
| jamielennox | return resp | 19:20 |
| jamielennox | ah, obj.container = self.name | 19:20 |
| terrylhowe | maybe the method should be called something else because I would think the list method on a container would return containers | 19:20 |
| jamielennox | oh, right | 19:21 |
| jamielennox | yea, terrylhowe i agree | 19:21 |
| briancurtin | terrylhowe: that was one thing that made me think a bit. the account calls give containers, teh container calls give objects | 19:21 |
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| briancurtin | so right now they nest, but i guess they really shouldnt | 19:21 |
| terrylhowe | swift is odd | 19:22 |
| jamielennox | ++ | 19:22 |
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| briancurtin | so if Container.list should list the containers on an account, should i then make Object.list take a container from which to list? | 19:24 |
| briancurtin | also, where does that leave the list call on Account, which currently gives the containers? | 19:24 |
| briancurtin | ...and yes, very odd | 19:24 |
| terrylhowe | maybe we should just hide account | 19:24 |
| terrylhowe | I’d really have to mess with it to form any meaningful opinion though | 19:25 |
| briancurtin | i'll take a look at hiding it | 19:25 |
| jamielennox | i don't know the swift api well enough to comment | 19:25 |
| briancurtin | it made sense while building it to make it nested or cascading, like it currently is, but i'll give what we just talked about a shot | 19:26 |
| jamielennox | but maybe this is one where you set list = False and then do container.get_objects() or something | 19:26 |
| briancurtin | shouldn't be too hard to put together a few competing ones now that i've hacked through this current one | 19:27 |
| terrylhowe | sounds good | 19:27 |
| briancurtin | dean wanted to talk about lower level APIs, but i dont remember anything other than him saying "i want to talk about low level APIs" | 19:28 |
| briancurtin | other than that, anything else on the table right now? | 19:29 |
| terrylhowe | nothing here | 19:30 |
| jamielennox | nope | 19:30 |
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| briancurtin | #endmeeting | 19:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:31 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 22 19:31:13 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-07-22-19.00.html | 19:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-07-22-19.00.txt | 19:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-07-22-19.00.log.html | 19:31 |
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| briancurtin | thanks guys | 19:32 |
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