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| salv-orlando | aloha? | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
| salv-orlando | no meeting, no cry | 15:02 |
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| salv-orlando | meh meh meh | 15:02 |
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| salv-orlando | meh meh meh I forgot yet another time that the meeting is at 1530UTC | 15:05 |
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| mestery | hi | 15:29 |
| mestery | markmcclain armax amotoki salv-orlando: neutron-drivers meeting | 15:29 |
| salv-orlando | aloha | 15:29 |
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| armax | mestery: yo | 15:29 |
| * mestery waits for a minute for amotoki and markmcclain to appear | 15:30 | |
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| mestery | lol | 15:31 |
| armax | :) | 15:31 |
| mestery | #startmeeting neutron-drivers | 15:31 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 15:31:39 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:31 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:31 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 15:31 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NeutronDrivers Agenda | 15:31 |
| mestery | Mostly today I wanted to highlight a few specs, and then more generally look at where we're at for approving specs. | 15:32 |
| mestery | Sound good? | 15:32 |
| mestery | #topic Subnet API specs for Kilo | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Subnet API specs for Kilo (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:32 | |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135771/ | 15:32 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: I think you've looked at this one a bit, along with myself. | 15:32 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: I did. | 15:32 |
| armax | mestery: that’s next on my list | 15:32 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin indicated he has an assignee for htis now, which is great! | 15:32 |
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| mestery | I think we should work to get this into Kilo, salv-orlando, what do you think? | 15:33 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: we can but the priorities are a bit subtle | 15:33 |
| salv-orlando | we need this partially implemented for doing pluggable IPAM | 15:33 |
| salv-orlando | so it’s partially a requirement - at least according to the plan currentl laid out | 15:34 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Yes, I think it's a straightforward change as well, though it is an API change | 15:34 |
| salv-orlando | The full support for subnet pools, exposed through the API can then come after pluggable IPAM is introduced | 15:34 |
| salv-orlando | no API change is every straigthforward ;) | 15:34 |
| mestery | Makes sense to me | 15:34 |
| mestery | lol | 15:34 |
| salv-orlando | but the point is that for kilo we absolutely need that bit that allows us to do pluggable IPAM | 15:35 |
| markmcclain | hi… sorry call ran long | 15:35 |
| salv-orlando | so I think it’s ok to approve. | 15:35 |
| mestery | Right | 15:35 |
| mestery | Good | 15:35 |
| salv-orlando | once of course we do all the nitpicking as usual | 15:35 |
| mestery | :) | 15:35 |
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| salv-orlando | we love to nitpick after all, don’t we? | 15:35 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: give me the chance to review | 15:35 |
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| mestery | armax: Of course | 15:35 |
| mestery | Next one | 15:35 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135453/ | 15:35 |
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| mestery | Paul Ward asked me to have us look at this one too | 15:36 |
| mestery | Along with carl_baldwin | 15:36 |
| wpward | Thanks for adding it, Kyle | 15:36 |
| mestery | wpward: Sure, happy to highlight it! | 15:36 |
| mestery | wpward: I have not reviewed this one yet, but will do so today | 15:36 |
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| mestery | Looks like salv-orlando has already reviewed | 15:37 |
| mestery | wpward: We'll look at this one and go forward from there. | 15:37 |
| salv-orlando | I have reviewed the spec this morning. Carl did it as well. I have nothing against it, but on the other hand I am still wary of seeing new attributes popping up in core resources. | 15:37 |
| salv-orlando | I will talk about this with carl_baldwin because it seems he had already plans for introducing a feature like this | 15:37 |
| wpward | salv-orlando: an understandable concern.... is there a different way to accomplish it? | 15:37 |
| wpward | Yes, Carl mentions a few BPs that are related. This one is a smaller subset but would be a good start to get his going as well. | 15:38 |
| salv-orlando | wpward: subnet-level dhcp options, or we’ll talk to carl to see how it fits in the changes proposed for spec #135771 | 15:38 |
| salv-orlando | anyway, this is something we can keep discussing on the gerrit review page (also becase Carl is not here). So mestery, if you want to move to the next one I’m ok with it | 15:39 |
| wpward | salv-orlando: Ok. I think one thing we want to maintain is the ability to do this for static networks as well, where dhcp is not in the picture. | 15:39 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Ack | 15:39 |
| mestery | #topic Blueprint Tracking | 15:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint Tracking (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:39 | |
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| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136835/ | 15:39 |
| mestery | Services split | 15:40 |
| mestery | I think it's very close | 15:40 |
| mestery | And I had 3 new repositories created with infra yesterday as well | 15:40 |
| mestery | salv-orlando markmcclain armax amotoki: What do you folks think?> | 15:40 |
| mestery | I mean, we could keep nit picking it, but at some point I think we can call it baked. | 15:40 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: I think it needs a rewiew from armax at least! | 15:40 |
| mestery | lol | 15:40 |
| armax | mestery: I had the same feeling | 15:40 |
| mestery | armax: OK, lets wait on this one. | 15:41 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I did | 15:41 |
| salv-orlando | I’m pretty sure after his review it will be a lot farther from being ready | 15:41 |
| markmcclain | haha | 15:41 |
| mestery | Wait, you reviewed it armax? | 15:41 |
| salv-orlando | armax: yes he did. | 15:41 |
| armax | salv-orlando: but not one on a fresh ps | 15:41 |
| mestery | Regardless, lets wait on this one then. | 15:41 |
| salv-orlando | I searched comments for armax, I forgot we use real names on gerrit! | 15:41 |
| mestery | lol | 15:41 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I make people’s lives easier having a simple nick | 15:41 |
| mestery | OK next one | 15:41 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134680/ | 15:42 |
| armax | not like salv-orlando | 15:42 |
| armax | :) | 15:42 |
| mestery | This is armax and marun's decomposition spec | 15:42 |
| mestery | It's been nit picked, looks ready to me. Thanks for addressing my last pedantic nit armax. :) | 15:42 |
| salv-orlando | I’m soft ok with it. | 15:42 |
| salv-orlando | meaning that I’m ok as long as the other folks in the core team don’t have a grudge with it | 15:42 |
| armax | mestery: no worries | 15:42 |
| mestery | I'm good with this one, I think the plan is laid out well and like I said, my last nit was addressed. | 15:43 |
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| * salv-orlando waits for somebody to speak against this spec.... | 15:43 | |
| * dougwig puts split spec back in the oven at 425 degrees. | 15:43 | |
| mestery | Going once ... | 15:44 |
| salv-orlando | if nobody opposes it anymore, the lazy consensus principle tells us what to do | 15:44 |
| armax | mestery: if there’s rejection later, it won’t be the first time that a merged bp fails to complete :) | 15:44 |
| mestery | lol | 15:44 |
| markmcclain | sorry was looking over who's commented on it | 15:44 |
| armax | markmcclain: you havent :) | 15:44 |
| amotoki_ | sorry i am late. I am just back to home. | 15:44 |
| markmcclain | I think I've said enough in person :) | 15:44 |
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| mestery | amotoki_: No worries :) | 15:44 |
| mestery | markmcclain: lol | 15:44 |
| armax | markmcclain: true enough, in fact I am not complaining, I figured you were tired to hear the same stuff over and over again :P | 15:45 |
| salv-orlando | /me is fairly sure no spec high-fiving is occurring this release cycle | 15:45 |
| mestery | OK, lets assume htis one will merge by Friday and move on. | 15:45 |
| mestery | I don't see any huge blockers right now. | 15:45 |
| marun | er | 15:45 |
| mestery | ? | 15:45 |
| marun | the way it reads the work has to be done in kilo | 15:46 |
| marun | mestery: weren't you advocating for more time? | 15:46 |
| marun | i.e. done by the end of L | 15:46 |
| mestery | marun: The wording was adjusted by armax, I am happy with the new wording. | 15:46 |
| armax | marun: let’s say that the work has to start in Kilo for sure | 15:46 |
| mestery | marun: I only meant that if people put in a good effort for K, but fail to reach the goal, we are lenient with them. | 15:46 |
| mestery | marun: If people do no work, then it's a different story. | 15:46 |
| mestery | armax addressed my comments in the latest version | 15:46 |
| mestery | I'm good | 15:46 |
| armax | mestery: yes, that’s the gist of it | 15:46 |
| salv-orlando | I think plugin maintainers are hiring lawyers to understand what they can and what they can’t do ;) | 15:46 |
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| mestery | rofl | 15:47 |
| marun | 'required to be rewritten in kilo' seems pretty definitive | 15:47 |
| armax | salv-orlando: nice one! | 15:47 |
| marun | I'm not complaining, just making sure that was your intent. | 15:47 |
| armax | marun: it is, but at the same time we can open up the possibility of reevaluating where we are a couple of months down the rouad | 15:47 |
| salv-orlando | armax: that where a guy like our old friend Donal would come handy. He was both a lawyer and an engineer | 15:47 |
| mestery | marun: Line 354 | 15:47 |
| mestery | Start there for the new wording | 15:48 |
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| armax | mestery: truth to be said, if you started…it should be possible for you to complete as well | 15:49 |
| armax | mestery: but one never knows | 15:49 |
| mestery | armax: Yes, I was just looking out for folks here. | 15:49 |
| marun | mestery: I guess I see 339 as conflicting with 354. maybe 354 should simply be removed | 15:49 |
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| mestery | I've already had a few talk to me privately about this, not defending folks, just looking to balance things a bit. | 15:49 |
| marun | but I'm niggling. probably nobody will care. | 15:49 |
| mestery | marun: Your point is valid | 15:49 |
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| armax | I can say ‘should’ instead of will? | 15:50 |
| amotoki_ | I think "should" or "strongly recommended" is an appropriate wording based on our discussion so far. | 15:50 |
| armax | ok | 15:50 |
| mestery | amotoki_: ++ | 15:50 |
| marun | +1 | 15:50 |
| armax | another rev coming up | 15:50 |
| mestery | armax: Cool | 15:50 |
| armax | dougwig: you said your is at 425F? | 15:50 |
| armax | I’ll put mine at 390F | 15:50 |
| mestery | lol | 15:50 |
| dougwig | armax: yes, but it's a convection oven | 15:50 |
| mestery | OK, lets move on | 15:50 |
| mestery | Next up: rootwrap | 15:50 |
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| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/93889/ | 15:50 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: A nrew rev was done, I think we can just approve now. | 15:50 |
| mestery | You had already done so in fact | 15:51 |
| mestery | :) | 15:51 |
| armax | dougwig: :) | 15:51 |
| markmcclain | mestery: +1 | 15:51 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: doing that now | 15:51 |
| mestery | Excellent! That was easy. | 15:51 |
| * mestery looks out for the trap | 15:51 | |
| salv-orlando | pretty sure there is hidden line saying that people +2ing that spec will become enslaved to the spec author | 15:52 |
| mestery | rofl | 15:52 |
| salv-orlando | anyway, next one | 15:52 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105660 | 15:52 |
| mestery | DHCP Agent Refactor | 15:52 |
| mestery | This one hasn't been updated in a long while | 15:52 |
| mestery | Wait | 15:53 |
| mestery | This is relay not refactor | 15:53 |
| mestery | hold on | 15:53 |
| markmcclain | do we have bandwidth for this? | 15:53 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: you have to do a bit of refactor for doing a relay | 15:53 |
| * mestery needs more coffee | 15:53 | |
| mestery | #undo | 15:53 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x3c050d0> | 15:53 |
| salv-orlando | but I would also say that I have not seen a blueprint for “refactoring the DHCP agent" | 15:54 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137808/ | 15:54 |
| mestery | L2 Agent Improvements | 15:54 |
| mestery | From rossella_s | 15:54 |
| mestery | This one I haven ot reviewed yet | 15:54 |
| mestery | Looks like armax has at least :) | 15:54 |
| armax | yay! | 15:54 |
| mestery | lol | 15:54 |
| armax | I am first, for once | 15:54 |
| salv-orlando | armax: are you sure? | 15:54 |
| rossella_s | I think salv-orlando was first | 15:54 |
| armax | can’t compete with you guys I am slooooow | 15:54 |
| armax | damn | 15:54 |
| armax | I thought I had it for a sec | 15:55 |
| * mestery gives salv-orlando a gold star | 15:55 | |
| salv-orlando | armax: thanksgiving played to my advantage | 15:55 |
| armax | but salv-orlando and I are technically interchangeable | 15:55 |
| salv-orlando | anyway it’s getting in good shape. We just need a sync-up with otherwiseguy to separate responsabilities | 15:55 |
| salv-orlando | and a contribution from marios for functional testing | 15:55 |
| armax | I’ll look at it again | 15:55 |
| mestery | ++ | 15:55 |
| mestery | #action neutron-drivers team to review L2 Agent Improvements spec | 15:56 |
| salv-orlando | anyway, if this should miss the deadline I guess nobody would object ane xception | 15:56 |
| marun | :/ | 15:56 |
| mestery | Ack | 15:56 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: +1 | 15:56 |
| amotoki_ | agree | 15:56 |
| mestery | OK next up | 15:56 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97967/ | 15:56 |
| mestery | Pluggable IPAM | 15:56 |
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| mestery | Again, salv-orlando and armax are on the ball here | 15:57 |
| salv-orlando | I think this one is close. | 15:57 |
| markmcclain | oh .. I was going to say the opposite | 15:57 |
| salv-orlando | However, it needs a counterpart which I’m writing now. | 15:57 |
| salv-orlando | markmcclain: I think you want to rewrite it, I know. | 15:57 |
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| salv-orlando | Just let us know if you think it’s done in a terrible way, so that we’ll just move it out early of our Kilo goal | 15:58 |
| markmcclain | I think this is something we should work on next week | 15:58 |
| salv-orlando | also because it potentially clashes a lot with plugin interface refactoring | 15:58 |
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| mestery | OK, so sounds like this one will require a bit more review then | 15:59 |
| salv-orlando | markmcclain, mestery: sounds like we should freeze this | 15:59 |
| markmcclain | yeah it's part the conflict and part the lack of specifics | 15:59 |
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| mestery | markmcclain: Can you comment in the spec on these aspects too? | 15:59 |
| markmcclain | yes will do | 16:00 |
| mestery | Cool | 16:00 |
| salv-orlando | yeah just to inform the other people | 16:00 |
| mestery | OK, last one I wanted to highlight | 16:00 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128257 | 16:00 |
| mestery | Full-stack white-box test framework | 16:00 |
| mestery | This is part of the testing effort | 16:00 |
| salv-orlando | I had a long chat with marun on these. | 16:00 |
| mestery | Nice :) | 16:00 |
| salv-orlando | I am ok with this effort going on. | 16:00 |
| salv-orlando | I waited honestly a bit for some feedback from the QA team, but since there isn’t any | 16:01 |
| mestery | I reviewed a much earlier version, I'll circle back on the latest one | 16:01 |
| marun | I'll need to review as well. | 16:01 |
| mestery | marun: Excellent | 16:01 |
| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 16:01 |
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| mestery | Anything else this week? | 16:01 |
| mestery | Any other BPs people want to highlight? | 16:01 |
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| salv-orlando | nothing major… but i wanted to understand what we’re supposed to do with l2 gateway | 16:01 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: yes, and I also wanted to spend a few words on the vsphere ones | 16:02 |
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| mestery | L2 gateway, armax will have something to say there :) | 16:02 |
| salv-orlando | we have 3 related API specifications under review. I don’t want to pick a winner, also because I don’t feel like I have the technical authority too | 16:02 |
| salv-orlando | but I wonder why this topic is so contentious that it’s been 2 years that we’re trying to get to a sort of consensus on the shape of the API | 16:03 |
| armax | salv-orlando: to be honest I am now in one of the final stages of the kubler-ross model | 16:03 |
| salv-orlando | so at this stage I’d let independent competing effort to go ahead | 16:03 |
| armax | acceptance | 16:03 |
| armax | :) | 16:03 |
| salv-orlando | and let the users pick a winner | 16:03 |
| salv-orlando | there will be only one | 16:03 |
| salv-orlando | like highlander, you know | 16:04 |
| armax | I think the best course of action would be to allow these to bake a little more | 16:04 |
| amotoki_ | re: L2 gateway it needs more descripiton on how it covers use cases by the proposed model (though I haven't commented yet) | 16:04 |
| armax | ultimately the one effort that I think is the most attainable should be developed out of neutron | 16:05 |
| salv-orlando | so my opinion is that if teams want to go ahead and implement out of tree versions of l2 gateway APIs I’m happy with it, but we aren’t able as a community to define a L2 gateway API which can be deemed “official" | 16:05 |
| armax | at least until the feature is fully backed | 16:05 |
| armax | baked | 16:05 |
| salv-orlando | why everyone wants to bake everything today? Is that because christmas is coming? | 16:05 |
| marun | go ahead -> go ahead outside of tree? | 16:05 |
| armax | salv-orlando: that’s my thinking progress, at least for now | 16:05 |
| salv-orlando | marun: yes. | 16:06 |
| marun | +1 | 16:06 |
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| mestery | +1 | 16:06 |
| armax | we could consider l2gw api, another example of a service api | 16:06 |
| armax | and revisit progress later on | 16:06 |
| mestery | stackforge it is! | 16:06 |
| armax | having said that I am making the effort of reviewing the specs to provide guidance | 16:06 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: what is the recommended baking temp? | 16:06 |
| salv-orlando | ok I suggest to -2 the relevant blueprints explaining what we have said here | 16:07 |
| armax | but no committment about reviewing code if it targets the neutron repo | 16:07 |
| salv-orlando | and wait for the furious reaction from the owners | 16:07 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I don’t think a -2 is appropriate | 16:07 |
| salv-orlando | with the usual trail of threats and stuff like that | 16:07 |
| mestery | Threats before Christmas, nice. | 16:07 |
| mestery | Someone is getting coal this year | 16:07 |
| mestery | Anything else, or shall we close this meeting early today? | 16:08 |
| armax | about vsphere... | 16:08 |
| salv-orlando | armax had the vsphere thing | 16:08 |
| mestery | ah | 16:08 |
| mestery | vsphere | 16:08 |
| mestery | yeah | 16:08 |
| mestery | please go ahead armax :) | 16:08 |
| armax | similar discussion we had on l2gw | 16:09 |
| armax | imo this is a clear example of a new effort that should follow the model marun and I have been pushing for | 16:09 |
| marun | why isn't -2 appropriate for things that are not going to go forward in the tree? | 16:09 |
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| armax | my opinion is that if stuff is out of tree but still have a viable integration path into neutron | 16:10 |
| armax | why would they need to be blocked? | 16:10 |
| salv-orlando | crossing wires... | 16:10 |
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| armax | the spec then becomes just a matter of visibility | 16:10 |
| salv-orlando | for the vsphere effort I just think that in light of spec #136480 the umbrella blueprint is superseded | 16:11 |
| salv-orlando | it seemed to me it was an attempt of forcibly building a community. But this is just my opinion | 16:11 |
| armax | the umbrella is there to give a context about what’s going on as far as vsphere efforts are concerned | 16:11 |
| salv-orlando | it does not necessarily reflect the community or my employers’s view ;) | 16:11 |
| armax | but point taken | 16:11 |
| marun | I think the spec process if first and foremost to in-tree development effort. | 16:11 |
| marun | But that's just me. | 16:11 |
| marun | if -> is | 16:12 |
| marun | arg. | 16:12 |
| armax | marun: that model is evolving imo | 16:12 |
| armax | and we have stuff that’s infligh | 16:12 |
| armax | t | 16:12 |
| marun | I think the spec process is first and foremost to gate in-tree development effort. | 16:12 |
| marun | If we don't focus it, we're going to waste cycles on non-essentials. | 16:12 |
| marun | There are lots of other avenues for feedback that don't gum up mainline development. | 16:12 |
| amotoki_ | from user perspective, isn't it also important to coordinate similar efforts like vspher works.... even though it is not in-tree. | 16:13 |
| armax | my point being that spec serve a useful documentation purpose | 16:13 |
| mestery | ++ to what marun is saying | 16:13 |
| mestery | My opinion is if we let things which aren't in-tree have specs, we'll drown fast | 16:13 |
| marun | amotoki_: I'm not sure why that has to happen in the spec repo. | 16:14 |
| salv-orlando | so neutron-specs should actually be the place not just for neutron specs but for all specs concerning development related to openstack networking. Still, it should not be used to ask the drivers/core team approval for what amount to “experiments” which can live in stackforge without any oversight imho | 16:14 |
| marun | amotoki_: And if it does, a -2 makes it clear where the spec stands without preventing people from collaborating. | 16:14 |
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| salv-orlando | but I agree with marun that anything that goes in neutron specs must be related to things that get then implemented in code | 16:14 |
| mestery | So, we're ok taking on extra overhead in neutron-specs for things which won't land in-tree and will live out of tree? | 16:14 |
| armax | in lieu of a new pmechanism that allows to raise visibility, I am not sure what’s the best course of action | 16:14 |
| mestery | That's what I'm reading this as . | 16:14 |
| amotoki_ | marun: I agree only if we are talk about spec reviews. | 16:15 |
| anteaya | salv-orlando: just as a piece of info stackforge is the wild west on purpose | 16:15 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: I think wires are crossed. I don’t understand if we’re talking about the l2 gw specs or the vsphere umbrella blueprint | 16:15 |
| marun | amotoki_: so, use spec repo for reviewing potential work that won't land in tree, but -2 to indicate that status? | 16:15 |
| anteaya | I agree in spirit but the mechanics aren't there | 16:15 |
| armax | perhaps we can tweak the template for now, to add a section that describes the relationship of the work with Neutron | 16:15 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: I thought we were talking in general about things which will live out of tree, but are networking related, having specs in neutron-specs? | 16:16 |
| markmcclain | I'd really like to keep specs focused on in tree work | 16:16 |
| markmcclain | we're trying to tell the operators this is what we're working on | 16:16 |
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| markmcclain | and if something does not stand a chance of merging we should be explicit about it | 16:16 |
| mestery | I worry about bandwidth and expectations if we allow specs to open up for code which isn't in tree too | 16:16 |
| armax | markmcclain: ok but what about work that’s happening on the side, that can still make meaningful progress? | 16:16 |
| mestery | markmcclain: Right | 16:16 |
| amotoki_ | I agree we should focus spec reviews on in-tree works. | 16:16 |
| mestery | armax: Why do they need a spec for on the side work? | 16:16 |
| armax | markmcclain: we’d need to have a away to capture that somehow | 16:16 |
| marun | well, if we -2 doesn't it make it clear to everyone what's going on? | 16:16 |
| dougwig | if you want it to be specs for neutron, but want the community to have a place in gerrit for "non-neutron" specs, make a new specs repo for that. neutron-incubator-specs or something | 16:17 |
| marun | nothing stopping iteration even with -2 | 16:17 |
| markmcclain | armax: side work can always continue on the ML, stackforge, etc | 16:17 |
| amotoki_ | vendor split-out brings users a question on how to coordinate competing efforts.... it is antoher problem. | 16:17 |
| marun | amotoki_: not sure what you mean? | 16:17 |
| armax | markmcclain: my point being -2 gives the wrong signal to the eyes that look at it | 16:17 |
| marun | armax: which eyes? | 16:17 |
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| markmcclain | it we allow anyone to discuss anything I'm afraid we'll return to the problem we had at past design summits | 16:17 |
| marun | armax: and if so, dougwig's suggestion of a separate repo makes sense imho | 16:18 |
| amotoki_ | there are many proposals on vsphere supports. how do we coordinate these efforts? this is my question. | 16:18 |
| anteaya | sounds like education needs to happen, we can't keep changing our process to fit the expections of the lowest thereof | 16:18 |
| armax | yes, that could be a viable alternative | 16:18 |
| dougwig | -2 does not mean "not in neutron, but keep on!". to the community, it means, "here, enjoy this 2x4 to the face!" sorry, but it's overloaded at this point. | 16:18 |
| mestery | dougwig: lol | 16:18 |
| markmcclain | where folks mis-read the officialness/ready for production of the things and then we paid for it in complaints | 16:18 |
| salv-orlando | personally I am not a bull, so seeing a red cross does drive me mad | 16:18 |
| marun | dougwig: it's a pretty handy 2x4 | 16:19 |
| anteaya | markmcclain: going back to what was at past design summits would be a huge step backward | 16:19 |
| marun | anteaya: +1 | 16:19 |
| markmcclain | saying not yet is hard… but honestly we've got to say it more | 16:19 |
| marun | +1 | 16:19 |
| salv-orlando | ok, let’s say no -2… we’ll put those spec back in WIP status (workflow -1) | 16:19 |
| mestery | If it's not in-tree or proposed as in-tree in neutron, it doesn't need a spec in neutron-specs. | 16:19 |
| marun | salv-orlando: but wip can be removed on a new patch submission :/ | 16:19 |
| armax | mestery: so I am unclear about the outcome of this discussion | 16:19 |
| mestery | If people can't find other ways to discuss things than neutron-specs, we've failed as a community. | 16:19 |
| salv-orlando | marun: just trying to find a way out from this discusion…. sorry | 16:20 |
| markmcclain | well the specs are for kilo so if it is clearly not going to make it we should -2 with a comment that says "discussion deferred to kilo" | 16:20 |
| mestery | markmcclain: Right | 16:20 |
| marun | -2 is 'this ain't gonna merge' from a gerrit perspective | 16:20 |
| marun | entirely appropriate here | 16:20 |
| markmcclain | ^H^H^H^HLemming | 16:20 |
| mestery | But my point is, if I'm developing "rabbit out of a hat as a service" in stackforge, don't file a neutron-spec for it | 16:20 |
| mestery | It's not in neutron | 16:20 |
| armax | would it make sense to go over the specs and select the ones that can be developed outside of neutron and still capture them somewhere else? | 16:20 |
| mestery | if you propose it to neutron later, file a spec then | 16:21 |
| armax | like dougwig suggested? | 16:21 |
| mestery | armax: My concern is that we don't have authority for "outside of neutron" | 16:21 |
| mestery | we can say "do it outside neutron" | 16:21 |
| mestery | But once that happens, they can do it however they want outside neutron | 16:21 |
| marun | stackforge/neutron-specs | 16:21 |
| salv-orlando | armax: ok, but why? Just to have a place where people can know things are happening? | 16:21 |
| marun | --> specs ghetto ;) | 16:21 |
| mestery | marun: But don't we then validate things and move the old problem to stackforge/neutron-specs? | 16:21 |
| armax | salv-orlando: primarely yes | 16:22 |
| marun | mestery: I'm for simply -2'ing. | 16:22 |
| mestery | marun: Me too | 16:22 |
| mestery | It's simple and clear | 16:22 |
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| marun | mestery: that can mean 'not yet' or 'not ever', depending. | 16:22 |
| markmcclain | isn't that the ML? | 16:22 |
| armax | mestery: ok, I was unable to convince why it isn’t, but ok | 16:22 |
| markmcclain | basically post and say I'm working on FooaaS ping me and we'll collaborate | 16:22 |
| mestery | yes | 16:22 |
| anteaya | if folks don't understand -2 then they need to learn, not change giving a -2 when it is needed | 16:22 |
| mestery | anteaya: ++ | 16:23 |
| marun | mestery: but the takeaway is 'we don't have to treat this as something to review on a priority basis. only if you care about the topic. | 16:23 |
| marun | anteaya: ++ | 16:23 |
| mestery | Right, that sounds like a -2 to me | 16:23 |
| armax | ML does not sound like the best way to document things | 16:23 |
| marun | armax: we don't need process for things that we aren't managing | 16:23 |
| marun | armax: process for process sake -> nobody's friend | 16:24 |
| salv-orlando | armax: ok, but we don’t need to put those through a review process then, do we? | 16:24 |
| armax | marun: I am not advocating for process | 16:24 |
| salv-orlando | marun: I think it’s also called bureaucracy | 16:24 |
| marun | armax: if someone wants to pursue an out-of-tree effort, because neutron isn't appropriate for it right now, they should do so unencumbered by us in any way. | 16:24 |
| marun | armax: our job is done when a consensus is reached that a -2 is appropriate | 16:24 |
| mestery | marun: ++ | 16:24 |
| anteaya | marun: that is my defintion of out-of-tree | 16:24 |
| armax | marun: ij | 16:25 |
| armax | marun: ok | 16:25 |
| anteaya | that doesn't prevent those people from attending meetings and leraning and listening | 16:25 |
| mestery | Right | 16:25 |
| anteaya | and guiding their efforts so they will be accepted | 16:25 |
| armax | armax: at this point I’d be just tempted to say ‘abandon the spec’ | 16:25 |
| anteaya | it jus tmeans they can't take review resources | 16:25 |
| marun | armax: I think that's reasonable. | 16:26 |
| armax | and do it somewhere else if you wanted to…but do we want to provide that ‘somewhere’ else, to help the discoverability of the effort? | 16:26 |
| mestery | ++ | 16:26 |
| armax | ML is not appropriate | 16:26 |
| * mestery notes 4 minutes left | 16:26 | |
| armax | people complain about ML | 16:26 |
| * mestery wants to manage less, not more | 16:26 | |
| armax | not me, but people do | 16:26 |
| armax | :) | 16:26 |
| mestery | stackforge | 16:26 |
| marun | armax: our new meeting format should be a good place | 16:27 |
| salv-orlando | people complain about stackforge. not me, but people do. | 16:27 |
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| salv-orlando | just kidding | 16:27 |
| marun | armax: 'hey, i'm working on this, if you're interested talk to me!' | 16:27 |
| anteaya | armax: what would happen if you take the material in the spec and use that for documentation in the repo? | 16:27 |
| * mestery slaps salv-orlando | 16:27 | |
| mestery | ;) | 16:27 |
| armax | anteaya: not sure I fully understand what you mean | 16:27 |
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| anteaya | if you have a bunch of information currently in a spec that is homeless | 16:27 |
| anteaya | would the repo itself be a potential home | 16:28 |
| mestery | Folks, we have < 2 minutes left. | 16:28 |
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| mestery | Lets look at continuing this discussion at some point if we need to | 16:28 |
| mestery | Maybe on the ML | 16:28 |
| marun | anteaya: even abandoned changes live forever in gerrit | 16:28 |
| salv-orlando | one more quick thing from me… can I? | 16:28 |
| anteaya | they do | 16:28 |
| * mestery runs for cover :) | 16:28 | |
| mestery | salv-orlando: yes | 16:28 |
| salv-orlando | spec for consolidarting neutron core: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136760/ - I sense there is an intention of reading as a renaming of extension into feature, and leaving the core - intenteded as the API every deployment must provide - as simple as it is today. | 16:28 |
| mestery | you have 40 seconds | 16:28 |
| salv-orlando | if that is the intention, I will just abandon the spec | 16:29 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Will look, please, others look as well. | 16:29 |
| amotoki_ | as a consensus, now -2 on neutron-specs means two things: that it is deferred out of Kilo (for things appropriate for neutron in-tree) andthat it does not fit in-tree neutron. we are looking for a place to discuss out-of-tree neutron-related tipics.. | 16:29 |
| amotoki_ | right? | 16:29 |
| salv-orlando | because the point for me is that we shoul stop thinking that the backend defines the ip | 16:29 |
| mestery | OK, we're out of time now folks. | 16:29 |
| salv-orlando | that’s all fromme | 16:29 |
| mestery | Thanks for the lively discussion, see you all again soon! | 16:29 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 16:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:29 | |
| salv-orlando | adieuuuuuu | 16:29 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 16:29:45 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:29 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2014/neutron_drivers.2014-12-03-15.31.html | 16:29 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2014/neutron_drivers.2014-12-03-15.31.txt | 16:29 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2014/neutron_drivers.2014-12-03-15.31.log.html | 16:29 |
| armax | amotoki: I think people see -2 as cease and desist | 16:30 |
| armax | I think it’s bad | 16:30 |
| marun | armax: I think we should change that perception | 16:30 |
| armax | marun: riiight... | 16:30 |
| marun | armax: -2 is also used for 'not now' | 16:30 |
| armax | good luck | 16:30 |
| amotoki_ | armax: yeah. agree that people feel so. | 16:30 |
| amotoki_ | -2 is very disappointing :-( | 16:30 |
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| amotoki_ | bye | 16:31 |
| armax | amotoki_: right, so I think we should use it carefully | 16:31 |
| armax | and perhaps devise other ways to encourage people to progress alternatively | 16:32 |
| amotoki_ | totally agree. we need to find appropriate place to discuss neutron related topics. | 16:32 |
| armax | right, most contributors just feel gutted of a -2 and give up, some don’t, but most do | 16:33 |
| marun | armax: look, we used to never give out -1's either | 16:33 |
| armax | I think we should make an effort to prevent that from happening | 16:33 |
| marun | armax: I argued for a -1 being a good way of communicating that issues needed addressing pre-merge. | 16:33 |
| marun | armax: And now, that's the way people think of it. | 16:33 |
| marun | armax: people can change. | 16:33 |
| marun | it just takes time. | 16:34 |
| armax | marun: let’s talk some more offline, but for now I’d say let’s ponder on this a bit before we reach to any conclusion | 16:34 |
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| mriedem | hi! | 17:00 |
| mriedem | cellz! | 17:00 |
| alaski | #startmeeting nova_cells | 17:00 |
| bauzas | like DBZ ? | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 17:00:29 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alaski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_cells' | 17:00 |
| bauzas | 30 years of Dragon Ball ! | 17:00 |
| alaski | Hi everyone | 17:00 |
| melwitt | Hello cellz | 17:00 |
| mriedem | nothing like DBZ | 17:00 |
| belmoreira | hi | 17:00 |
| dheeraj-gupta-4 | hi | 17:00 |
| bauzas | \o | 17:00 |
| vineetmenon_ | hi | 17:01 |
| alaski | #topic cells manifesto | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cells manifesto (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:01 | |
| alaski | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-nova-cells-manifesto | 17:01 |
| bauzas | LGTM | 17:01 |
| alaski | cool | 17:01 |
| mriedem | oo nice | 17:01 |
| * mriedem needs to read it | 17:01 | |
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| alaski | it wasn't clear if anyone had looked at it yet | 17:01 |
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| edleafe | o/ | 17:01 |
| bauzas | yeah, EU people have an advantage because we were not eating Turkey :) | 17:02 |
| alaski | I think I have a few changes I'd like to put in for discussion, but due to a short week haven't gotten to it | 17:02 |
| bauzas | alaski: I'm +1 on it | 17:02 |
| mriedem | that's a disadvantage right? | 17:02 |
| alaski | seems like it to me | 17:02 |
| mriedem | alaski: so once we're good with the etherpad, where does that go? | 17:02 |
| mriedem | devref? blog? other? beuler? | 17:02 |
| bauzas | devref IMHO | 17:03 |
| bauzas | + blog | 17:03 |
| dansmith | I think it needs to hit the mailing list, but not in etherpad form | 17:03 |
| alaski | mriedem: devref ultimately, also an operator list post, and a blog would be good as well | 17:03 |
| mriedem | ok, yeah, ML would be good (and not in etherpad so random joe can mark it up) | 17:03 |
| dansmith | do we want to just propose that as a devref thing, perhaps with alaski's diagrams, | 17:03 |
| dansmith | and send that to the ML? | 17:03 |
| mriedem | i'd be good with that | 17:03 |
| alaski | yeah, sounds good | 17:04 |
| bauzas | +1 | 17:04 |
| mriedem | if i'm going to read it, i might as well do it in gerrit | 17:04 |
| belmoreira | dansmith: +1 | 17:04 |
| alaski | dansmith: you want to take that? | 17:04 |
| vineetmenon_ | mriedem : +1 | 17:04 |
| dansmith | alaski: heh, was just about to make you do it | 17:04 |
| alaski | heh | 17:04 |
| dansmith | but sure, we'll do it somehow | 17:04 |
| alaski | yeah, I don't mind proposing it | 17:05 |
| dansmith | show your diagrams | 17:05 |
| alaski | #action propose manifesto to devref | 17:05 |
| alaski | http://paste.openstack.org/show/144068/ | 17:05 |
| alaski | I forgot to add this to the agenda | 17:05 |
| alaski | but I drew a few pictures | 17:05 |
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| alaski | I would love feedback | 17:05 |
| dansmith | good ascii diagrams are like geek porn | 17:05 |
| vineetmenon_ | alaski: nice | 17:06 |
| alaski | and want to include them in appropriate specs, and the manifesto if that helps | 17:06 |
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| dansmith | I think they should go with the manifesto as well, yeah | 17:06 |
| bauzas | alaski: volunteering for creating yet another etherpad for diags ? | 17:06 |
| alaski | bauzas: I tried that... | 17:06 |
| bauzas | alaski: oh, fonts are getting you mad ? | 17:06 |
| alaski | the pads aren't monospaced | 17:06 |
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| bauzas | alaski: eh | 17:07 |
| alaski | it's a client side setting to change it | 17:07 |
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| alaski | so I'm happy to put them in a pad, with instructions on how to actually view them | 17:07 |
| bauzas | alaski: agreed | 17:07 |
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| mriedem | well, | 17:08 |
| mriedem | devref can link to images right? | 17:08 |
| mriedem | once we're happy with the diags we could just put into an image file and store with the docs | 17:08 |
| dansmith | devref can include these eaasily | 17:08 |
| alaski | bauzas: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-cells-flow-diagram I need to add the last one | 17:08 |
| dansmith | because they're ascii | 17:08 |
| bauzas | mriedem: IIRC, there are even diagrams in devref | 17:08 |
| mriedem | bauzas: yeah for the rpc stuff | 17:08 |
| bauzas | mriedem: they would need some updated btw. :d | 17:08 |
| vineetmenon_ | alaski: etherpad just broke your diagram | 17:08 |
| bauzas | *updates | 17:09 |
| mriedem | bauzas: yeah, devref doesn't mention objects i'm pretty sure... | 17:09 |
| bauzas | mriedem: think about betting... | 17:09 |
| mriedem | what's next? | 17:09 |
| dansmith | alaski: shall we move on? | 17:09 |
| bauzas | alaski: that sounds acceptable for reviewing, I mean the client change in the etherpad | 17:09 |
| alaski | yep, distracted by etherpad | 17:10 |
| alaski | #topic testing | 17:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "testing (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:10 | |
| alaski | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-cells-testing | 17:10 |
| alaski | I've added a bunch of info there | 17:10 |
| dansmith | ooh nice | 17:10 |
| alaski | there are some reviews linked with fixes as well | 17:10 |
| alaski | helping to categorize/fix the remaining failures would be a huge help | 17:11 |
| vineetmenon_ | since we are on testing, has anyone looked into this? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/cells-tempest | 17:11 |
| vineetmenon_ | quite an old BP | 17:11 |
| dansmith | what about it? | 17:11 |
| alaski | heh, that's basically what we're doing | 17:11 |
| alaski | but realistically that should be an infra bp if anything | 17:12 |
| dansmith | qa | 17:12 |
| vineetmenon_ | dansmith, alaski: yes exactly... aren't we repeating it.. I mean that BP was basically abandoned | 17:12 |
| mriedem | yeah qa | 17:12 |
| alaski | or that... | 17:12 |
| dansmith | or tempest or whatever, but yeah | 17:12 |
| sdague | alaski: can we organize that into a list of reviews that are: merged, ready for review, wip? | 17:12 |
| mriedem | but they've been fine with the patches so far it seems | 17:12 |
| dansmith | vineetmenon_: it was never started | 17:12 |
| dheeraj-gupta-4 | alaski: very nice info | 17:12 |
| alaski | sdague: yes, I can do that | 17:13 |
| mriedem | sdague: yeah i was going through that list now | 17:13 |
| sdague | alaski: thanks | 17:13 |
| alaski | #action alaskiorganize testing etherpad into reviews that are: merged, ready for review, wip | 17:13 |
| alaski | vineetmenon_: I think that bp is fine being abandoned. if we need a new one we'll create it | 17:14 |
| mriedem | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135285/ is going through the gate | 17:14 |
| mriedem | which will take awhile | 17:14 |
| sdague | will definitely help on getting them reviewed in a more timely manner if we have a concise list. It would also be really nice to call out which repo the reviews are against so people will know if it's something they have +2 on before following the link | 17:14 |
| vineetmenon_ | alaski: sure.. I just thought mentioning it here.. | 17:14 |
| alaski | vineetmenon_: appreciated. if it was a qa bp I would feel different, but most of the work isn't in nova | 17:15 |
| dansmith | aye | 17:15 |
| alaski | sdague: cool, we can do that too | 17:15 |
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| alaski | anything else on testing? | 17:15 |
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| mriedem | how much are we waiting on https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/flavor-from-sysmeta-to-blob,n,z now? | 17:16 |
| alaski | a little | 17:16 |
| alaski | I'm eager for it, but there are plent of other things to tackle still | 17:16 |
| mriedem | ok, just figuring out nova review priorities since the one nova patch in there is approved, just needs gate babysitting | 17:17 |
| mriedem | i've sucked at nova reviews since the break | 17:17 |
| dansmith | flavors have been keeping me from reviews too | 17:17 |
| mriedem | once a couple of these get in, we can go back and check test results again | 17:17 |
| alaski | it will become more urgent as the list of failing tests dwindles | 17:17 |
| dansmith | I need to just put it down for a day | 17:17 |
| mriedem | moving on? | 17:17 |
| alaski | #topic analysis of tables | 17:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "analysis of tables (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:18 | |
| alaski | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-cells-table-analysis | 17:18 |
| dansmith | okay, big disclaimer: | 17:18 |
| alaski | dansmith put some lists together | 17:18 |
| dansmith | this is just a first, uninformed pass at sorting things into global/cell scope | 17:18 |
| bauzas | just one comment, could we maybe put all the etherpads in a wikipage ? | 17:18 |
| mriedem | maybe you want to put that into the etherpad :) | 17:18 |
| dansmith | there are a bunch I don't know what to do with, mostly because I need to look at how they're used, but some are opinion calls | 17:18 |
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| mriedem | bauzas: was thinking the same | 17:18 |
| mriedem | global cell == global wiki page | 17:18 |
| bauzas | mriedem: agreed | 17:19 |
| alaski | bauzas: yeah | 17:19 |
| bauzas | time for opening a wikipage, eh ? | 17:19 |
| alaski | I should also be linking all of these... | 17:19 |
| alaski | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-cells-table-analysis | 17:19 |
| bauzas | alaski: yeah, I'm pretty worried of loosing focus on all etherpads | 17:19 |
| bauzas | I can't track them like in Gerrit | 17:19 |
| bauzas | and I'm pretty bad in making shortlinks | 17:19 |
| vineetmenon_ | bauzas: +1 | 17:20 |
| alaski | ok, I'll corral everything into a wiki | 17:20 |
| bauzas | alaski: awesome | 17:20 |
| alaski | as far as the tables go | 17:20 |
| mriedem | alaski: feel free to delegate a bit :) if you want i can do the wiki tedium | 17:20 |
| bauzas | :) | 17:20 |
| bauzas | \o too | 17:21 |
| alaski | it would be good to get some feedback on the preliminary organization, and thoughts on what to do with the uncategorized one | 17:21 |
| bauzas | yeah, the unsure section needs debating a bit IMHO | 17:21 |
| dheeraj-gupta-4 | alaski do we put our comments in the etherpad itself? | 17:21 |
| alaski | #action mriedem bauzas set up a wiki page to corral etherpad links for cells work | 17:21 |
| bauzas | woah, 2 people on that heavy task :) | 17:22 |
| dansmith | dheeraj-gupta-4: comments about the table split you mean? | 17:22 |
| dheeraj-gupta-4 | yes for the table split | 17:22 |
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| dansmith | I think this is going to be a worksheet, so lets see how it goes with people putting comments in here | 17:22 |
| dansmith | just please try to keep the list readable by people as well | 17:22 |
| bauzas | yeah, I'm just concerned about grouping some tables | 17:22 |
| bauzas | like aggregates and instancegroups | 17:22 |
| alaski | comments in the etherpad seems like a good place to start | 17:23 |
| bauzas | both of them are related to scheduler | 17:23 |
| bauzas | alaski: agree | 17:23 |
| melwitt | comments on any etherpad content in general maybe, make comments at the bottom or something? | 17:23 |
| dheeraj-gupta-4 | yes comments section is a good idea | 17:23 |
| dansmith | melwitt: sure, or at the bottom of a section | 17:23 |
| alaski | this is very preliminary so we'll likely have to adjust how we approach this, but this is a good starting place | 17:23 |
| vineetmenon_ | bauzas alaski: for heated tables, I'm afraid etherpad would may become illegible.. | 17:23 |
| bauzas | yeah, we can do both inline and at the end of the doc, sure | 17:24 |
| dansmith | vineetmenon_: that's why people need to be on their best behavior and keep the doc readable | 17:24 |
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| dansmith | if you want to argue about something, etherpad isn't the place anyway | 17:24 |
| alaski | maybe just call out controversial tables | 17:24 |
| alaski | and we can discuss here or in another medium | 17:24 |
| dansmith | after we make a few passes at this, we could do another devref and argue the minutia in gerrit | 17:24 |
| dansmith | the biggest problem I see here is actually the nova-network tables | 17:25 |
| vineetmenon_ | dansmith: +1 | 17:25 |
| bauzas | alaski: well, even the 2nd table about a global CellsV2 DB is debatable IMHO (compute_nodes) | 17:25 |
| dheeraj-gupta-4 | bauzas: +1 | 17:25 |
| dansmith | because I don't want to spend a bunch of time making nova-network split-able just to deprecate it | 17:25 |
| mriedem | bauzas: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova-Cells-v2 | 17:25 |
| dansmith | bauzas: what does that mean? | 17:25 |
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| bauzas | dansmith: I mean that I'm not sure that compute_nodes should be global if we consider a scheduler per cell | 17:26 |
| alaski | scheduling is a whole other can of worms right now | 17:26 |
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| bauzas | alaski: yeah, hence my worries | 17:26 |
| dansmith | bauzas: ah, well, I don't know that I think scheduling should be per-cell anyway, which is why I put it there :) | 17:26 |
| alaski | but I think we should consider it orthogonal for now | 17:26 |
| belmoreira | dansmith: nova-newtwork may be a requirement... depends in neutron migration progress | 17:26 |
| bauzas | alaski: agreed | 17:26 |
| dansmith | belmoreira: I know, that's my point | 17:26 |
| dansmith | how about this | 17:27 |
| bauzas | alaski: but in that case aggregates should be orthogonal, and here comes the discussion | 17:27 |
| dansmith | if there are things in one or the other section, lets move them to a "contentious" section and explain why | 17:27 |
| dansmith | unsure will continue to be "needs more investigation" | 17:27 |
| alaski | dansmith: +1 | 17:27 |
| bauzas | anyway, let's put our thoughts on the etherpad, for sure | 17:27 |
| alaski | it will be nice to get a list of low hanging fruit tables, like flavors and keypairs | 17:28 |
| alaski | from there we can move into the contentious ones | 17:28 |
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| dansmith | yep | 17:28 |
| bauzas | alaski: I think the sections are trying to do this | 17:28 |
| bauzas | alaski: maybe some of the items need adjustment | 17:29 |
| vineetmenon_ | dansmith is already done with low handing fruit tables, right | 17:29 |
| dansmith | vineetmenon_: this is just a proposal, it needs review and sign-off | 17:29 |
| alaski | bauzas: sure, lets capture that on the pad for now | 17:29 |
| vineetmenon_ | dansmith: ack | 17:29 |
| dansmith | like, compute_nodes was one I assumed was low hanging, but it's not | 17:29 |
| dansmith | so let's see next week if people have more issues with these | 17:29 |
| dansmith | after thinking/reading | 17:30 |
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| bauzas | +1 | 17:30 |
| alaski | agreed | 17:30 |
| dansmith | and it would be great if folks could look at the unsure ones and try to evaluate where they belong, or at least add comments about the implications | 17:30 |
| belmoreira | +1 | 17:30 |
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| alaski | moving on | 17:30 |
| mriedem | i need to read back through alaski's 2 specs first i think | 17:30 |
| alaski | #topic scheduling requirements | 17:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "scheduling requirements (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:31 | |
| * dansmith runs | 17:31 | |
| alaski | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-cells-scheduling-requirements | 17:31 |
| alaski | dansmith: you're off the hook for this one | 17:31 |
| dansmith | woot | 17:31 |
| alaski | johnthetubaguy couldn't make it today, but he put some thoughts down | 17:31 |
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| alaski | he added some possible solutions at the bottom, but what I'm more interested in currently is what are the needs | 17:32 |
| dansmith | so, belmoreira should add some things? :) | 17:32 |
| alaski | I know what Rackspace needs, but I don't know about CERN/Nectar and non cells users | 17:33 |
| alaski | dansmith: right :) | 17:33 |
| dansmith | so let's specifically call out the holes | 17:33 |
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| belmoreira | dansmith: I need to read it... | 17:33 |
| bauzas | mmm, that still relates to the discussion about a global scheduler or not | 17:34 |
| alaski | bauzas: it will inform that discussion | 17:34 |
| bauzas | I agree with johnthetubaguy about the scaling concerns | 17:34 |
| bauzas | alaski: agreed | 17:34 |
| dansmith | bauzas: it does, but we need to know what the current at-scale folks need/want/think is important | 17:35 |
| alaski | belmoreira: sure, we'll touch back on this next week or after | 17:35 |
| dansmith | what about some people at scale not using cells? | 17:35 |
| bauzas | dansmith: yeah, I totally understand | 17:35 |
| dansmith | like phil or paul? | 17:35 |
| alaski | yeah, that would be great info | 17:35 |
| bauzas | dansmith: I discussed with john about some scaling issues they had with the existing nova scheduiler | 17:35 |
| belmoreira | alaski: for next weeks can you publish the links before the meeting? | 17:35 |
| alaski | belmoreira: yes | 17:36 |
| alaski | I'll add links to the agenda | 17:36 |
| bauzas | dansmith: that's basically IO problems with context switching the greenthreads | 17:36 |
| alaski | #action add links to the agenda before a meeting | 17:36 |
| bauzas | dansmith: when they were accessing the DB IMHO | 17:36 |
| dansmith | bauzas: yeah | 17:36 |
| mriedem | wiki is here now: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova-Cells-v2 | 17:36 |
| bauzas | s/IMHO/IIRC | 17:36 |
| mriedem | alaski: ^ | 17:36 |
| mriedem | so we could just throw that in the meeting agenda | 17:36 |
| alaski | mriedem: ahh, good point. I can add them there too | 17:36 |
| bauzas | dansmith: so I'm a little concerned about a "global scheduler" wishlist | 17:37 |
| alaski | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova-Cells-v2 | 17:37 |
| alaski | bauzas: what's your concern? | 17:37 |
| dansmith | bauzas: I put "as it relates to cells" in the page, but I think we need to hear this | 17:37 |
| bauzas | alaski: I just want to make sure that the scheduler can scale :) | 17:38 |
| alaski | this shouldn't be a wishlist, but a list of what the current usage is | 17:38 |
| bauzas | alaski: hence the CachingScheduler that john provided | 17:38 |
| alaski | bauzas: so do I :) | 17:38 |
| dansmith | bauzas: we don't have to do everything that is posted here, and certainly not things that aren't achievable or compatible with the overall goal :) | 17:38 |
| bauzas | alaski: but I don't want to speak on behalf of him :) | 17:38 |
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| bauzas | dansmith: \o/ | 17:39 |
| bauzas | sounds like the voice of reason | 17:39 |
| dansmith | next? | 17:39 |
| alaski | yep, had to find my agenda tab... | 17:39 |
| alaski | #topic Connection info in database or config file? | 17:39 |
| bauzas | opens ? | 17:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Connection info in database or config file? (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:39 | |
| * dansmith cracks the whip | 17:39 | |
| bauzas | oh | 17:40 |
| alaski | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135424/ | 17:40 |
| bauzas | thanks for having raised it | 17:40 |
| dansmith | so, I definitely think that the connection info needs to be in the DB | 17:40 |
| alaski | and I agree with that | 17:40 |
| bauzas | eh eh | 17:40 |
| bauzas | next then ? :) | 17:40 |
| belmoreira | :) | 17:40 |
| bauzas | nah, just saying it was a configuration problem | 17:40 |
| alaski | I'd like to understand why a config would be useful | 17:40 |
| vineetmenon_ | then are you planning every config to reside in DB? or something in DB and something in file? | 17:40 |
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| bauzas | alaski: I'm just thinking of something that is operator-related | 17:41 |
| alaski | vineetmenon_: all of it in the db | 17:41 |
| alaski | vineetmenon_: regarding what's in the spec | 17:41 |
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| vineetmenon_ | so it will need complete overhaul of existing things as well, right | 17:41 |
| dansmith | vineetmenon_: not all of nova.conf of course, just this tiny piece | 17:42 |
| bauzas | alaski: atm, connection URIs are stored in a conffile | 17:42 |
| alaski | bauzas: I think a config makes operation more difficult as it can't be done online | 17:42 |
| bauzas | alaski: well, it requires a service restart I agree | 17:42 |
| vineetmenon_ | dansmith, alaski: ack | 17:42 |
| bauzas | alaski: do we consider autoscaling for cells ? | 17:42 |
| alaski | bauzas: and for cells v1, we do store the cell relationships in the db and the mq connection info | 17:43 |
| bauzas | alaski: I still need to remember my little knowledge about Heat resources | 17:43 |
| bauzas | alaski: but you agree that's only for cells, not for Nova ? | 17:43 |
| bauzas | in general I mean | 17:43 |
| alaski | bauzas: I'm not sure autoscaling and cells go well together | 17:43 |
| dansmith | bauzas: what do you mean "only for cells" ? | 17:43 |
| alaski | because there's a physical component involved | 17:44 |
| belmoreira | alaski: there is also the file option | 17:44 |
| bauzas | alaski: so is the service restart really a problem ? | 17:44 |
| dansmith | bauzas: yes | 17:44 |
| vineetmenon_ | bauzas: well, nova is part of cell, in one way or another.. So, I guess both | 17:44 |
| bauzas | belmoreira: that's what I'm mentioning as conf file | 17:44 |
| bauzas | but OK, I don't want to bikeshed things | 17:44 |
| bauzas | seems like there is a large majority | 17:44 |
| alaski | bauzas: yes, this is only for cells | 17:45 |
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| bauzas | and that's something manageable thru a nova-manage thing | 17:45 |
| dansmith | alaski: but every nova deployment will have at least one of these in the table | 17:45 |
| alaski | dansmith: right | 17:45 |
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| belmoreira | using configuration management tools is much more easy to manage configuration files | 17:45 |
| dansmith | which is why I don't want to say things like "only for cells" | 17:45 |
| bauzas | so, I'll change my vote and ask for something manageable, that's it | 17:45 |
| dheeraj-gupta-4 | If we move the connection and DB to a file, we probably won't need a cells table :) | 17:45 |
| alaski | dansmith: fair enough | 17:45 |
| alaski | dheeraj-gupta-4: sure, but then I have to restart my apis to add a new cell | 17:46 |
| dheeraj-gupta-4 | or to delete one | 17:46 |
| bauzas | alaski: actually policy files are not requiring a service update | 17:46 |
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| bauzas | alaski: so, that's maybe an implementation detail ? | 17:47 |
| bauzas | s/service update/service restart | 17:47 |
| * bauzas dammit | 17:47 | |
| mriedem | i think being able to refresh config options on the fly is a wishlist for everyone for a long time | 17:47 |
| dansmith | we could do it in a config file without requiring restarts, of course | 17:47 |
| alaski | belmoreira: if you're currently using config I don't want to break that for you. perhaps we can look into a way to make them both work | 17:47 |
| dansmith | I don't really see the point, TBH | 17:48 |
| alaski | belmoreira: but operationally I think a db is easier | 17:48 |
| mriedem | we could read the config file only for the cells group and reload the options in memory | 17:48 |
| mriedem | yeah | 17:48 |
| dansmith | mriedem: everything is doable, nothing about a config file requires static-ness | 17:48 |
| bauzas | yeah... | 17:48 |
| dansmith | the thing is, however, | 17:48 |
| dansmith | if you want an API to add a cell | 17:48 |
| bauzas | so the question is, what's better for cells operators ? | 17:49 |
| dansmith | doing it in the config file means you really can't have that | 17:49 |
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| alaski | what I'm thinking is that we could load from a config into a db on startup | 17:49 |
| bauzas | dansmith: that's really my question, do we envisage something orchestrating cells ? | 17:49 |
| alaski | but have the db be what's actually used | 17:49 |
| * bauzas not saying the word "Heat" | 17:49 | |
| belmoreira | alaski: I think that we should go only for one solution | 17:49 |
| dansmith | alaski: slightly more potentially confusing I think | 17:49 |
| alaski | bauzas: I don't | 17:49 |
| dansmith | yeah | 17:49 |
| alaski | okay | 17:49 |
| dansmith | we can change this later without too much trouble if it turns out to be a huge problem | 17:50 |
| alaski | belmoreira: can you comment on the spec again with your thoughts | 17:50 |
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| belmoreira | alaski: sure | 17:50 |
| alaski | thanks | 17:51 |
| mriedem | anything left? | 17:51 |
| alaski | let's bring the discussion back to the review, but maybe we're a bit closer now to consensus | 17:51 |
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| alaski | #topic open discussion | 17:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:51 | |
| bauzas | alaski: yeah, as said, I'll amend my comment | 17:51 |
| alaski | bauzas: thanks | 17:51 |
| alaski | anything for open discussion? | 17:52 |
| mriedem | i'm hangry | 17:52 |
| vineetmenon_ | alaski: do you have anything to do for minions (me) ? specifically in testing? | 17:52 |
| mriedem | let's close | 17:52 |
| vineetmenon_ | or specs, either | 17:52 |
| mriedem | vineetmenon: scour through the testing etherpad | 17:52 |
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| mriedem | vineetmenon: alaski calls out the need for investigation into other failing tests | 17:53 |
| alaski | vineetmenon_: mainly we could use help understanding the current failures | 17:53 |
| alaski | there's a review linked with the full logs | 17:53 |
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| vineetmenon_ | alaski, mriedem: okay | 17:53 |
| alaski | or I can put up some info on getting cells running in devstack | 17:53 |
| alaski | to run locally | 17:53 |
| bauzas | yeah, some instructions would be awesome | 17:54 |
| mriedem | alaski: don't you have a wip for that or something in devstack? | 17:54 |
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| vineetmenon_ | alaski: that I am able to, with local cell | 17:54 |
| bauzas | everytime I'm changing something in the cell namespace, I'm crossing fingers... :/ | 17:54 |
| alaski | vineetmenon_: cool | 17:54 |
| alaski | mriedem: it's just some localrc settings | 17:54 |
| vineetmenon_ | region and child, right | 17:54 |
| alaski | devstack does the rest already | 17:54 |
| bauzas | alaski: nova-net ? | 17:55 |
| bauzas | alaski: I beg your pardon, my knowledge is poor | 17:55 |
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| belmoreira | bauzas: yes | 17:55 |
| bauzas | belmoreira: ack | 17:55 |
| alaski | alright, closing up early | 17:55 |
| alaski | #endmeeting | 17:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 17:55:59 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2014/nova_cells.2014-12-03-17.00.html | 17:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2014/nova_cells.2014-12-03-17.00.txt | 17:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2014/nova_cells.2014-12-03-17.00.log.html | 17:56 |
| bauzas | thanks | 17:56 |
| alaski | thanks everyone! | 17:56 |
| vineetmenon_ | bye guys.. | 17:56 |
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| * bauzas heading off to dinner :) | 17:56 | |
| belmoreira | thanks | 17:56 |
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| RuiZang | Hi Sumit | 18:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RuiZang: hi | 18:25 |
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| *** SridarK has joined #openstack-meeting-3 | 18:28 | |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: pc_m: hi | 18:29 |
| pc_m | hey | 18:30 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: pc_m: Hi | 18:30 |
| vishwanathj | hi | 18:30 |
| SridarK | vishwanathj: hi | 18:30 |
| yalie | Hi Rui | 18:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | looks like we have most folks | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | lets get started | 18:31 |
| RuiZang | Hi Yalei | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #startmeeting Networking FWaaS | 18:31 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 18:31:18 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:31 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:31 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas' | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #info SPD: Monday 12-8-2014 SAD: Monday 12-15-2014 | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #info Kilo-1 is 12-18-2014 | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | any other related announcements anyone would like to share for the benefit of the team? | 18:32 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Bugs | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:32 | |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: nothing new | 18:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: yes | 18:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i did a quick review on this: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104132/ | 18:33 |
| Swami | hi | 18:33 |
| SridarK | Swami: hi | 18:34 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes u beat me to it - i was trying to understand when i saw ur review go by :-) | 18:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: hi | 18:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ah ok, do you disagree with the change? | 18:35 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: seems fairly straight forward | 18:35 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: no was just trying compare the change with the original | 18:35 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: it is good | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: i thought the change was trying to make things consistent | 18:35 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i however did not have a chance to actually test it out | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | it would be nice if some actually can | 18:36 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: i will try to get to this later today | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: sweet | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i guess we are missing badveli not sure if anything showed up on his bug triage radar | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Docs | 18:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:37 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | i guess we have three pending items here | 18:37 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes - i could not even look at any of this trying to get specs out | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: anything for us to review or contribute in terms of DVR? | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: np, that definitely is high priority too | 18:38 |
| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: I have created a document for the documentation folks to consume. | 18:38 |
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| Swami | I have added a section for the services and added a high level note for all the services. | 18:39 |
| Swami | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qmKoP4GVdjeEEVvqf3tYptVuvUzVIeQmJiTPWPoi_E0/edit | 18:39 |
| Swami | If you can take a look at the services part and if you feel like I have missed anything please fill in the gap. | 18:39 |
| Swami | I am working with "Elke Vorgheise" on the documentation. I think she is the tech writer for the networking guide. | 18:40 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: ah ok | 18:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | thanks for the link | 18:40 |
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| SridarK | Swami: thx - overview on services covers major points - will see if we need to add any more details | 18:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: perhaps we need to add some notes on the migration to the legacy mode (or the lack of when using FWaaS) | 18:41 |
| SridarK | Swami: over the the quick scan of the doc for DVR - looks really good and comprehensive | 18:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | but the team here can this a little more detailed read, and provide feedback | 18:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: +1, great job Swami! | 18:42 |
| Swami | Yes, we can add a section on migration and how the services are handled. | 18:42 |
| Swami | I will take a first stab at it and you can add your feedback or data to this document. | 18:42 |
| SridarK | Swami: i see a book deal coming :-) Swami signing DVR books at Vancouver :-) | 18:42 |
| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: sure. | 18:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | lol! | 18:43 |
| Swami | SridarK: Sure, I like the idea. | 18:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: also, conf is missing, not sure that is meant for this document thought | 18:43 |
| SridarK | :-) | 18:43 |
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| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: When you say config, are you talking about multinode config or single node config. | 18:44 |
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| Swami | I think I had a section on configuration that deals with the DVR specific configurations. | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yeah, and specifically in the context of FWaaS what needs to be set on which node | 18:44 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | i dont think that is terribly different from the DVR base configuration, but i vaguely recall that we had one or two extra things in there | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | just need to confirm | 18:45 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: i don't think we need to set anything specific for FWaaS | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: okay | 18:45 |
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| Swami | For DVR there is no specific action that is required for Firewall configuration. As far as the firewall service is enabled, it should work. | 18:45 |
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| SridarK | FWaaS just looks at the 'distributed' flag | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | next doc item - #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1373674 | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: okay | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i am not sure if we need address the “openstack-api-site” related documentation | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | third doc item was: #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1346986 | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i believe there isnt an update on this | 18:47 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: not sure on that the second one - but i recall last week we saw that it was fixed | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: it was fixed in one of the documents but it shows open in the other | 18:48 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: hmm ok | 18:48 |
| SridarK | sorry missed that | 18:48 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: if this doesnt swap out of my memory i will try to ping the guy :-) | 18:48 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Kilo Blueprints | 18:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kilo Blueprints (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:48 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | we have to post the blueprints by Dec 8th | 18:48 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: badveli just sent an email - he is running late | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: thanks, yeah i saw that earlier, was hoping he would make it | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | make it before we get to security groups | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | *service groups | 18:49 |
| RuiZang | what do you mean by "post the blueprints by Dec 8th"? | 18:50 |
| vishwanathj | SumitNaiksatam, SridarK: I will upload a patch later today to address your comments | 18:50 |
| SridarK | I pushed some comments out on service groups a little early today | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | commute is bad today! | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RuiZang: i meant post a gerrit spec for review; i think you are good since you already posted your blueprint | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | vishwanathj: sure, np | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: nice, i did not notice that | 18:51 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: mostly nits on service groups | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so lets take one bp at a time | 18:51 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: oops sorry - are we on service groups ? | 18:51 |
| RuiZang | SumitNaiksatam> Oh OK | 18:51 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | lets start with hot spec of the day - FWaaS Insertion Model on a Single Router - #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138672/ | 18:52 |
| SridarK | :-) | 18:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: your baby :-) | 18:52 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: thanks for the comments | 18:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | hot spec puts you in the hot seat ;-P | 18:52 |
| SridarK | :-) | 18:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: sure | 18:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | probably folks havent had a chance to review it | 18:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | please do so and provide comments at the earliest | 18:52 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: i think i have tried to capture most of the discussions from the summit and also in the mtgs | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | this is probably the most important bp/spec for FWaaS for Kilo | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: and very articulated at that! | 18:53 |
| SridarK | :-) | 18:54 |
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| badveli | hello all | 18:54 |
| badveli | sorry delayed due to weather | 18:54 |
| SridarK | I am hoping that if we get most things thrashed out this week - next week can get some core attention | 18:55 |
| SridarK | badveli: hi | 18:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: yes, glad you could make it, and pretty much at the right time | 18:55 |
| badveli | hello sridark | 18:55 |
| badveli | oh..thanks | 18:55 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: of course thanks of the core attention from u | 18:55 |
| SridarK | *for | 18:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: yeah, i would say we pre-emptively approach some of the other cores | 18:56 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: ok sounds good - will do that | 18:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: i think we should add all the cores to the review | 18:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: you want me to do that? | 18:56 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: ok sure | 18:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ok done :-) | 18:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | did anyone else get a chance to look at Sridar’s spec? | 18:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | in case we want to spend a few mins discussing here | 18:57 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: definitely want to thrash out some of the extensions related areas - i have left that a bit open as i am not sure how to proceed there with all the changes | 18:57 |
| badveli | just going through | 18:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | is glebo here? | 18:58 |
| badveli | no i do not see him here | 18:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the next bp is Service group and Service Object for firewall as a service: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/131596 | 18:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: looks like we again have some formatting and grammar nit issues | 18:59 |
| SridarK | badveli: i provided some comments earlier today | 18:59 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | looking at SridarK’s comment | 18:59 |
| SumitNaiksatam | *comments | 18:59 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ideally we should have been way past this point now | 18:59 |
| SridarK | badveli: mostly looks good except for the nits | 18:59 |
| badveli | taking a look | 18:59 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: did you or glebo hear from any of the other cores that glebo had approached to review this? | 19:00 |
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| badveli | we did not get anything | 19:00 |
| badveli | we are still waiting | 19:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: hmmm | 19:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: once you get a new rev out, i will review immediately | 19:01 |
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| SridarK | badveli: possibly the 2 issues i have listed - if u change the wording on that or clarify and with the nits fixed - i am good | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: would appreciate if you can send a headup when you do to the entire team | 19:01 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | *headsup | 19:01 |
| badveli | ok | 19:01 |
| badveli | i will give a heads up on the new review | 19:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the third bp is regarding FWaaS for E-W traffic when deploying DVR | 19:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: thanks | 19:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami sent out a proposal last week: #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/11Gp62Yfyi1WH6yM6E_308OB4CC9A6xhxKZJ8B5jOwLc/edit | 19:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and we had a brief discussion | 19:02 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: have you identified a preferred path in terms of what is feasible on the DVR side of things? | 19:03 |
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| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: I was counting on vivek to give me some feedback on proposal 1. | 19:03 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: ah ok | 19:03 |
| Swami | But he was busy on something else. | 19:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so i am a bit concerned that we are cutting too close to the SPD, since we dont have a spec in place yet | 19:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | how do we want to go about pursuing this? | 19:04 |
| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: So I have to take up the task to investigate the pros and cons of option 1> | 19:04 |
| Swami | Option 2: is prety much straight forward and DVR will not have any impact. | 19:04 |
| Swami | But I personnally like option1 since the firewall rules will be in one single place. | 19:04 |
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| badveli | yes swami, i think option 1 is looking good | 19:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we need to firm on both - (1) the technical path that we want to take, and (2) the logisitics of who will post the spec | 19:05 |
| Swami | Did you guys do a round table discussion on both options? If so what do you like or see as a valuable going forward. | 19:05 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | on (2) we need to decide whether we need 2 specs (one for DVR and another for FWaaS) or 1 | 19:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: a meeting dedicated to this would definitely be helpful, lets take that offline and set up one for the earliest | 19:06 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: Swami: Yes i think that will be good | 19:06 |
| Swami | In either case, if we choose either of the options mentioned above, this addition of a new bridge or addition of a new rule to redirect the packets to the router should only happen if there is a firewall enabled. | 19:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #action SumitNaiksatam to setup DVR E-W traffic discussion meeting | 19:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: so seems like we are shooting for two specs? | 19:07 |
| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: Yes I agree with you on having a separate chat on this. | 19:07 |
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| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: No at this point let us keep the implementation decision out of the spec. | 19:07 |
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| Swami | Let us file a blueprint of applying the firewall rules for the DVR East-West. | 19:08 |
| Swami | I don't think we are going to introduce any API change at this time or any database change for this feature. | 19:08 |
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| SridarK | Swami: A sort of tangential but related question | 19:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: okay lets discuss further in the meeting | 19:09 |
| badveli | to me it lloked like option 1 is better | 19:09 |
| Swami | Yes sounds good. | 19:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: do you think Vivek needs to attend the meeting or you would sync up offline with him? (that will help to set the time for the meeting) | 19:09 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: Swami: yes i agree | 19:09 |
| SridarK | Swami: With DVR is there some significance for an interface that carries the E -W traffic ? | 19:10 |
| badveli | thanks sumit | 19:10 |
| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: Yes I will investigate it further and if we need viveks help we can pull in as required. He seems to busy in some other work. | 19:10 |
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| SridarK | Swami: or is the interface just a logical entity and we cannot discriminate or associate E - W traffic with a specific Router interface ? | 19:11 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: okay some i am shooting for 9 AM PST tomorrow (if that works for everyone) | 19:11 |
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| Swami | SridarK: I don't think there is any significane on interface that is driving traffic for E-W. But we can easily sort out there are different ports that direct traffic for North-South and for East-West. | 19:11 |
| badveli | 19:11 | |
| Swami | Tomorrow 9 a.m should work. | 19:11 |
| badveli | 19:12 | |
| badveli | sumit, can we do a bit late | 19:12 |
| vishwanathj | 9AM PST works | 19:12 |
| SridarK | Swami: ok lets discuss more on this, i am trying to think in terms of the router insertion work that we are planning to see if we can leverage that for handling this case | 19:12 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: i am okay with any time in the morning | 19:13 |
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| Swami | SridarK: Yes we can discuss this in futher details in the meeting tomorrow. | 19:13 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | okay i will send out an invite accordingly | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | next vendor blueprints | 19:14 |
| badveli | i have a doctor appointment in the morning | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: okay lets discuss offline | 19:14 |
| badveli | i will try to attend it | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we currently have only one vendor spec posted on the wiki: #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/FWaaS#Vendor_Blueprints | 19:15 |
| SridarK | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129836/ | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | however we have at least a couple of more | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ah i guess we need to update the link | 19:15 |
| RuiZang | Do I have to post the review on wiki by myself? | 19:15 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: ok will do | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | vishwanathj: RuiZang: can you update the wiki page | 19:15 |
| RuiZang | Sorry, I am totallynew to this | 19:15 |
| RuiZang | Sure, I can | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RuiZang: no worries, it wil be great if you can update the wiki | 19:15 |
| vishwanathj | SumitNaiksatam, will update | 19:16 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | RuiZang: this not a required step, its a nice to have since it will be visible to other FWaaS team member for ready reference and they can provide reviews | 19:16 |
| SridarK | RuiZang: pls feel free to reach out if u have any questions | 19:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we will also track every week | 19:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RuiZang: i did a quick read through, and provided a couple of high level comments | 19:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RuiZang: but mostly looks good to me | 19:17 |
| RuiZang | SumitNaikstam: Sridark: thanks you guys, I will update the wiki | 19:17 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | RuiZang: are you the one shepherding this spec or is it isaku? | 19:17 |
| RuiZang | Isaku is on relocation to U.S | 19:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RuiZang: sorry, i know you have two specs | 19:17 |
| RuiZang | So currently it is me | 19:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RuiZang: i was referring to the first one, which is the L3 plugin | 19:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RuiZang: i have not yet read through the fwaas driver | 19:18 |
| RuiZang | SumitNaiksatam: yes I am responsible for both of them | 19:18 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RuiZang: great | 19:18 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | RuiZang: as SridarK mentioned please feel free to reach out to this team if you need any help | 19:18 |
| SumitNaiksatam | vishwanathj: any blockers for your spec? | 19:19 |
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| RuiZang | SumitNaiksatam: Sridark: Sure, thanks very much | 19:19 |
| vishwanathj | SumitNaiksatam, None at this time, I need to upload the next patch set addressing SridarK and your comments | 19:19 |
| SumitNaiksatam | vishwanathj: ok great | 19:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | btw, Spec for introducing Brocade Vyatta Firewall solution using a new vendor specific device driver for Neutron L3 agent: #link https://review.openstack.org/136953 | 19:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and Ruiz’s specs are: l3-router: add mcafee ngfw l3 router plugin #link https://review.openstack.org/134198 | 19:21 |
| vishwanathj | SumitNaiksatam, I have updated the wiki and added link to brocade vyatta firewall spec | 19:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and, firewall: add mcafee ngfw driver support: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91286/ | 19:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | vishwanathj: nice, thanks! | 19:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the other blueprint/work we need to discuss with high priority is the L3 agent refactoring | 19:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic L3 Agent refactoring | 19:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "L3 Agent refactoring (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 19:22 | |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/neutron+branch:master+topic:bp/restructure-l3-agent,n,z | 19:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | this will affect the firewall agent | 19:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so just want to confirm who signed up for this | 19:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: was it you and pc_m? | 19:24 |
| pc_m | yup | 19:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: okay great, thanks! | 19:24 |
| pc_m | I'm doing VPN | 19:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: ah okay | 19:24 |
| pc_m | And have started on the refactoring. | 19:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: who is doing firewall? | 19:24 |
| pc_m | I thought SridarK signed up. | 19:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: okay | 19:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: i vaguely recall glebo mentioning that you were going to look at this too | 19:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: i am guessing that the scope of this work in the context of fwaas is pretty limited, right? | 19:26 |
| badveli | sumit, i am planning to do the e-w spec side | 19:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: ah okay, got it | 19:26 |
| pc_m | SumitNaiksatam: yes. | 19:26 |
| badveli | i will get the details from pc_m | 19:26 |
| pc_m | SumitNaiksatam: Mostly will be determining the hook points for L3 agent notifications to the services | 19:27 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: right | 19:27 |
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| badveli | 19:27 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | i think we lost SridarK for a bit there | 19:27 |
| SridarK_ | sorry network glitch | 19:27 |
| pc_m | SumitNaiksatam: And of course, teasing apart the inheritance tree | 19:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: np | 19:27 |
| pc_m | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/131535 | 19:28 |
| pc_m | Is the BP spec. | 19:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: we were discussing the l3 agent refactor and its implications for the fwaas agent | 19:28 |
| Swami | pc_m: is there design doc for this hook points | 19:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: trying to nail down who signed up for this at our end | 19:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: did you? | 19:28 |
| SridarK_ | on this L3 refactor, Carl pinged me on the fwaas side to see if i can take a look - so will look into that | 19:28 |
| pc_m | Swami: no. There was some discussion on the ML and some info in the BP | 19:28 |
| SridarK_ | SumitNaiksatam: so i have signed up | 19:28 |
| pc_m | Please look at the BP spec and comment from a FW POV | 19:29 |
| * pc_m just check - it's approved | 19:29 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: yeah, was going to say :-) | 19:29 |
| pc_m | Still would give the main points. | 19:29 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | so i think we proposed in the adv services’ meeting yesterday we will target this for Kilo-2 | 19:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok folks we are out of time | 19:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | hope we didnt miss anything | 19:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | thanks for joining | 19:30 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | bye! | 19:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #endmeeting | 19:30 |
| SridarK_ | bye | 19:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 19:30:39 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2014/networking_fwaas.2014-12-03-18.31.html | 19:30 |
| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: SridarK_ : pc_m : I have a suggestion | 19:30 |
| badveli | bye | 19:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2014/networking_fwaas.2014-12-03-18.31.txt | 19:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2014/networking_fwaas.2014-12-03-18.31.log.html | 19:30 |
| SridarK_ | Swami: yes pls | 19:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: sure | 19:31 |
| Swami | I have this patch up for review again. | 19:31 |
| Swami | This is the services check for migration. | 19:31 |
| SridarK_ | Swami: on my list | 19:31 |
| Swami | Can you guys review it again. | 19:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: the one i had +2’ed earlier? :-) | 19:31 |
| Swami | Our mgiration patch already merged. | 19:31 |
| Swami | But this one was left out. | 19:31 |
| Swami | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123273/ | 19:32 |
| Swami | pc_m: I saw your comment, but this exception message is specific to migration. | 19:32 |
| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: Yes. | 19:32 |
| Swami | I had to rebase it because of the parent patch got merged and changed a little bit. | 19:32 |
| Swami | that's all I had. | 19:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: sure | 19:33 |
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| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: thanks | 19:34 |
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| pc_m | Swami: OK. Did you have resolution on the check_router_in_use()? | 19:34 |
| * pc_m should we go to openstack-neutron? | 19:34 | |
| Swami | pc_m: As I mentioned in my comment, I did go that route, but the exception message was not specific to the action and that's why I moved in this direction. | 19:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | btw, there is a #openstack-fwaas channel | 19:35 |
| pc_m | Swami: Reading... I see. Will respond. | 19:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and i am the only one on it right now! :-) | 19:35 |
| Swami | ok. | 19:36 |
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| Swami | nothing else. Thanks for your time. | 19:36 |
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| badveli | thanks all | 19:36 |
| Swami | bye | 19:36 |
| badveli | bye | 19:37 |
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| david-lyle | #startmeeting Horizon | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 20:00:01 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 20:00 |
| david-lyle | did anyone make the new time? | 20:00 |
| mrunge | morning | 20:00 |
| rbertram | hey | 20:00 |
| TravT | Hello! | 20:00 |
| neillc | I did :) | 20:00 |
| r1chardj0n3s | hi david-lyle :) | 20:00 |
| mrunge | and no, nobody made it ;-) | 20:00 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | coffee's on the stove :) | 20:00 |
| rbertram | r1chardj0n3s is on a bit earlier than usual | 20:00 |
| mrunge | anybody tea? | 20:01 |
| clu_ | hi! | 20:01 |
| lhcheng | o/ | 20:01 |
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| clu_ | (not looking forward to waking up at 4 am next week ;p) | 20:01 |
| david-lyle | let a few more roll in | 20:01 |
| TravT | mrunge: I'll take some. | 20:01 |
| david-lyle | I see tqtran is still good with time | 20:02 |
| david-lyle | alright, let's get rolling | 20:02 |
| david-lyle | First a general announcement, I've heard back from a majority of cores and would like to formally welcome Thai and Cindy to horizon-core | 20:03 |
| david-lyle | Thank you for all your efforts! | 20:03 |
| r1chardj0n3s | \o/ | 20:03 |
| clu_ | thanks david-lyle! | 20:04 |
| neillc | congrats Thai and Cindy! | 20:04 |
| doug-fish | congrats clu_ and Thai! | 20:04 |
| clu_ | i'm accepting on behalf of tqtran because he's traveling right now :) | 20:04 |
| TravT | Congratulations! | 20:04 |
| rbertram | congrats! | 20:04 |
| asahlin | Congrats! | 20:04 |
| lhcheng | congrats! | 20:04 |
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| david-lyle | I'll make all the appropriate group, role, list, etc changes in the next day or so | 20:05 |
| clu_ | :) | 20:05 |
| david-lyle | Beyond that, I still have a stable branch liaison slot open for the #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons | 20:06 |
| david-lyle | I and many others were thinking mrunge you might be interested | 20:06 |
| david-lyle | do you have time and interest | 20:06 |
| mrunge | heh | 20:06 |
| david-lyle | and what it entails, I don't full know | 20:06 |
| mrunge | yes, I can do that | 20:06 |
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| david-lyle | can you pencil yourself in on the wiki page please? | 20:07 |
| david-lyle | and thank you | 20:07 |
| david-lyle | I think you're the only other stable team member we have on Horizon, so it makes sense | 20:07 |
| mrunge | david-lyle, yes, will do that | 20:07 |
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| david-lyle | Beyond that, Kilo-1 is on Dec 18 | 20:07 |
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| david-lyle | #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/kilo-1 | 20:08 |
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| david-lyle | I think everything is on track, except maybe the split | 20:08 |
| david-lyle | but I think we have an agenda item to dig into that in a bit | 20:09 |
| mrunge | yes, exactly | 20:09 |
| david-lyle | so we'll hold off on diving in yet | 20:09 |
| r1chardj0n3s | we still haven't settled on a colour | 20:09 |
| david-lyle | it will only take approx 90 emails to narrow it down | 20:10 |
| david-lyle | want to start that one too r1chardj0n3s? | 20:10 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: for k-1, I think tqtran wanted to try to get the identity rework in | 20:10 |
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| david-lyle | r1chardj0n3s: doesn't it involve new dependencies? | 20:11 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: not yet | 20:11 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: (and unlikely to) | 20:11 |
| david-lyle | what about the external js reference | 20:11 |
| david-lyle | or did that get removed? | 20:11 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: though we haven't got a solid outcome from the bower discussion which would involve new deps | 20:12 |
| david-lyle | I can't merge in links to random js from the web | 20:12 |
| r1chardj0n3s | right, ok | 20:12 |
| r1chardj0n3s | so yes, new deps | 20:12 |
| david-lyle | a lot of people run behind firewalls that prevent such things | 20:12 |
| r1chardj0n3s | yep | 20:13 |
| mrunge | or build systems not connected to the net | 20:13 |
| mrunge | ;-) | 20:13 |
| david-lyle | ok, we'll hope for K-1, if not k-2 is just the next day :) | 20:13 |
| r1chardj0n3s | :) | 20:13 |
| r1chardj0n3s | fine by me | 20:13 |
| david-lyle | OpenStack where the milestones are meaningless, but help keep time | 20:13 |
| r1chardj0n3s | (I was wondering what they were for :) | 20:14 |
| david-lyle | well, meaningless is an overstatement | 20:14 |
| david-lyle | but fairly apt | 20:14 |
| david-lyle | I don't have any other general items | 20:14 |
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| david-lyle | so the agenda for today can be found at #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Horizon | 20:15 |
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| david-lyle | #topic Moved blueprint review list | 20:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Moved blueprint review list (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 20:15 | |
| david-lyle | That's mine | 20:15 |
| david-lyle | I created a wiki page to track bps for review | 20:16 |
| david-lyle | that's the good news | 20:16 |
| david-lyle | the second part with adding a new list didn't happen yet | 20:16 |
| david-lyle | so stay tuned | 20:16 |
| david-lyle | i think most of those on the current list are ready to approve and schedule | 20:16 |
| david-lyle | so I'll start doing that | 20:17 |
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| rbertram | I've been thinking about basing filtered-client-side-table BP on the Angular work by tqtran and r1chardj0n3s, but I noticed that there is no angular BP. Thoughts? | 20:17 |
| r1chardj0n3s | rbertram: the angular work is tied into the identity bp ... https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/angularize-identity-tables | 20:18 |
| mrunge | is it still too early for a bp for all that angular stuff? | 20:18 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: that should be added to the list pls | 20:18 |
| r1chardj0n3s | (or should go through whatever process is appropriate to get onto the list pls :) | 20:18 |
| rbertram | r1chardj0n3s: tqtran suggested I start with users rather than instances, since it is easier. Still considering. | 20:19 |
| r1chardj0n3s | rbertram: yep, that BP is users | 20:19 |
| david-lyle | added to the page | 20:19 |
| r1chardj0n3s | rbertram: there's a half-dozen changesets already hanging off that bp, and will likely be a few more before we're done | 20:19 |
| david-lyle | forgot to link the page #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Horizon/Blueprint_Reviews | 20:19 |
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| TravT_ | It would be great if we could land that sooner than later | 20:20 |
| rbertram | r1chardj0n3s: what's your point? that it won't stabilize soon enough? | 20:21 |
| r1chardj0n3s | agreed | 20:21 |
| TravT_ | because right now your rest utlitity is in that patch | 20:21 |
| r1chardj0n3s | but the individual changes can be merged along the way, yes? | 20:21 |
| david-lyle | separate patches on the same bp can merge at any time | 20:21 |
| david-lyle | so the rest work should go first | 20:21 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | rbertram: it's partly that, but also that there's a couple of puzzle pieces missing, most notably the packaging | 20:21 |
| david-lyle | that unblocks several others | 20:22 |
| rbertram | The rest utility will be very handy for the fitlered-client-side-table | 20:22 |
| r1chardj0n3s | agreed, hence I've an agenda item to discuss it ;) | 20:22 |
| david-lyle | +1 foresight | 20:22 |
| TravT_ | ok, will digress until then | 20:22 |
| david-lyle | alright, just to close on the current topic, the best way to get your bp for review is to schedule it for a milestone | 20:23 |
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| david-lyle | moving on | 20:23 |
| david-lyle | #topic Repo split and names | 20:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Repo split and names (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 20:24 | |
| david-lyle | mrunge: was that yours? | 20:24 |
| mrunge | ah yes, that'll be me, I guess | 20:24 |
| mrunge | ;-) | 20:24 |
| david-lyle | lucky you | 20:24 |
| mrunge | we still don't have names | 20:24 |
| TravT_ | Maybe a dumb question, but won't this repo split mean we can't have dependent patches in Gerrit across them? | 20:24 |
| r1chardj0n3s | use the github random name generator | 20:25 |
| david-lyle | TravT_: yes | 20:25 |
| mrunge | TravT_, you're right | 20:25 |
| TravT_ | uggh | 20:25 |
| mrunge | and when splitting the repo, we will have to sync contributions to horizon and openstack_dashboard | 20:25 |
| mrunge | meaning: slowing down the process | 20:25 |
| TravT_ | to be that annoying guy asking yet again... why are we doing this? just to simplify packaging? | 20:26 |
| mrunge | when we decided to split, we thought, horizon (the module) is settled | 20:26 |
| david-lyle | mrunge: I ultimately think splitting the repo is the right thing to do, but I worry we'll cause more turmoil than it's worth | 20:26 |
| mrunge | TravT_, we're doing this, because horizon (the module) is useful outside of OpenStack | 20:26 |
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| mrunge | david-lyle, I have two issues with the split currently | 20:27 |
| mrunge | or even more | 20:27 |
| david-lyle | and I like to waffle on things | 20:27 |
| r1chardj0n3s | has anyone proposed an alternative, which is to just merge them? is anyone actually using horizon-the-module outside of openstack? | 20:27 |
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| david-lyle | r1chardj0n3s: used to be they wanted to, but had to pull on openstack_dashboard too | 20:28 |
| mrunge | r1chardj0n3s, we had so many folks coming up, saying: this is useful | 20:28 |
| david-lyle | s/on/in/ | 20:28 |
| r1chardj0n3s | cool, was just wondering :) | 20:28 |
| mrunge | when continuing on the route having a django app, this is just the right thing to do | 20:28 |
| mrunge | but: given we're throwing everything away, I could use my time better | 20:29 |
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| david-lyle | option 3, fork horizon-lib onto github and continue dismantling the part remaining in horizon.git | 20:29 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | ooh, I like the sound of that | 20:29 |
| mrunge | hmm, sounds good. | 20:30 |
| mrunge | how would that part be updated? | 20:30 |
| david-lyle | which part? | 20:30 |
| mrunge | or do we accept, horizon-lib and integrated horizon-lib diverting? | 20:30 |
| mrunge | I mean, forked off horizon-lib? | 20:31 |
| r1chardj0n3s | I do have a concern about the new angular work landing in the horizon "lib" ... if they're truly independent components (independent of openstack_dashboard) then I believe they should be truly separate things out of horizon-lib otherwise no-one in the angular space will ever consider using them | 20:31 |
| david-lyle | I think we accept divergence and if something useful goes into horizon-lib, we create a patch by hand | 20:31 |
| mrunge | ugh. | 20:31 |
| mrunge | I fear, we will just loose interest in horizon-lib | 20:32 |
| mrunge | and that part becomes abandoned more sooner than later | 20:32 |
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| mrunge | so, to make a plan here: | 20:33 |
| mrunge | 1. do we still want this? | 20:33 |
| mrunge | 2. names? everybody ok with horizon (for horizon lib) and openstack_dashboard? | 20:33 |
| mrunge | 3. when? | 20:33 |
| david-lyle | I take 2. sure | 20:34 |
| doug-fish | with regard to 1, I haven't seen the need for this. Everyone I interact with who wants to extend Horizon wants some/all of the dashboard panels as well. | 20:34 |
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| doug-fish | but that could just be me and the sort of people I interact with. | 20:34 |
| david-lyle | doug-fish: the need in the past was greater because we didn't have the plugin story worked out yet | 20:34 |
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| TravT_ | on 1), I'd ask what is the primary intent of the dashboard program? Is it to provide a framework for other UIs or to provide a dashboard for Horizon? Or maybe that's too much of a simplification. | 20:35 |
| david-lyle | and extending horizon was take the code and heavily edit openstack_dashboard or replace it | 20:35 |
| mrunge | yes, the request to split was louder in the past | 20:35 |
| mrunge | now those folks moved on (or so) | 20:35 |
| doug-fish | IMO providing a framework is a big job by itself. I feel like we are stretched thin already. | 20:36 |
| david-lyle | mrunge: have you tried using horizon-lib outside of Horizon? | 20:36 |
| mrunge | david-lyle, nope, I haven't | 20:36 |
| david-lyle | I'm wondering if there are actually enough pieces there | 20:36 |
| mrunge | due lack of time :( | 20:36 |
| david-lyle | understood | 20:36 |
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| david-lyle | I think my vote is to drop the split | 20:37 |
| mrunge | I wouldn't be sad or unhappy, if we just drop it | 20:38 |
| david-lyle | I think doing the split could be beneficial to some people, but ultimately will hurt us more than it helps them | 20:38 |
| david-lyle | anyone else? | 20:39 |
| TravT_ | so, we've used the horizon framework in HP a few times and it keeps coming up... but TBH I don't know that status on a clear statement of intent on using it as a standalone framework. | 20:39 |
| david-lyle | anymore, I think it's just a framework to operate inside OpenStack | 20:40 |
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| david-lyle | like an oslo library | 20:40 |
| david-lyle | I don't think competing OpenStack UIs will be using horizon-lib | 20:40 |
| mrunge | david-lyle, it was intended to provide a framework to build a dashboard based on restful services | 20:40 |
| david-lyle | mrunge: I understand that, but that was why I asked if anyone had tried | 20:41 |
| david-lyle | I'm wondering if you really can | 20:41 |
| mrunge | it's not necessarily connected to OpenStack at all... | 20:41 |
| david-lyle | as written | 20:41 |
| mrunge | agreed. | 20:41 |
| david-lyle | then you start a ton of refactoring to make it work as such which ripples through the openstack_dashboard | 20:41 |
| mrunge | I think Gabriel had a demo | 20:41 |
| TravT_ | to that point, a lot of the current movement is putting RESTful APIs into OpenStack Dashboard. | 20:41 |
| david-lyle | of extending horizon.git | 20:42 |
| TravT_ | and a clear pattern is just emerging. | 20:42 |
| mrunge | putting restful apis into openstack_dashboard is just... silly | 20:42 |
| r1chardj0n3s | mrunge: could you explain that pls? | 20:43 |
| mrunge | r1chardj0n3s, we already have apis in place, why do we write software to access them? | 20:43 |
| mrunge | or to provide those restful apis another time? | 20:44 |
| r1chardj0n3s | the APIs are ... imperfect :) openstack_dashboard has a bunch of code that makes the underlying APIs far nicer to consume | 20:44 |
| mrunge | so, you're hacking around those imperfect apis rather than fixing them? | 20:44 |
| r1chardj0n3s | so it made sense to leverage that and provide a new API on top, rather than rewrite everything in the consumer layer (ie javascript) | 20:45 |
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| mrunge | wow. | 20:45 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | mrunge: I don't control those apis, and the imperfections often have been fixed through versioning, but old versions still exist in production | 20:45 |
| r1chardj0n3s | openstack_dashboard's api code often just smooths over differences between api versions | 20:45 |
| mrunge | r1chardj0n3s, I understand your issue. still I don't like the solution | 20:45 |
| mrunge | as it's not that clean as I'd like it | 20:46 |
| r1chardj0n3s | mrunge: oh, I'm not thrilled by it either | 20:46 |
| r1chardj0n3s | mrunge: but in the interest of being practical about it, and choosing battles etc... | 20:46 |
| r1chardj0n3s | we have enough to do already :) | 20:46 |
| mrunge | r1chardj0n3s, or anyone else: I'm not saying, anyone is doing a bad job | 20:46 |
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| mrunge | on the other side, I would try to prevent those compromises | 20:47 |
| rbertram | I think the existing APIs are consuming REST from keystone and other services. r1chardj0n3s is providing REST to browser. Seems like they APIs are looking in different directions. r1chardj0n3s: true? | 20:47 |
| neillc | mrunge: unfortunately compromises seem to be unavoidable | 20:47 |
| mrunge | rbertram, something which could be fixed by a proxy, right? | 20:48 |
| neillc | It's perhaps a matter of picking the least worst option :) | 20:48 |
| mrunge | neillc, I'm expecting those compromises to live forever | 20:48 |
| r1chardj0n3s | there existing code in openstack_dashboard (ok, that's a *lot* to keep typing ;) is client code over the service APIs (keystone, nova) and the REST API in "Horizon" (aka openstack_dashboard) is built over that client code | 20:48 |
| r1chardj0n3s | you can't just "fix if with a proxy" .. go have a look at the complexity in the openstack_dashboard/api directory | 20:49 |
| mrunge | r1chardj0n3s, I did | 20:49 |
| rbertram | mrunge: yeah - we are winding up w/ a proxy, which does more than passthrough - does processing between keystone and browser | 20:49 |
| r1chardj0n3s | if you replace that code with a proxy, you have to rewrite all that code in Javascript, which we're trying to avoid | 20:49 |
| r1chardj0n3s | and the proxy still has to do some processing, as anyone who's written one finds out :) | 20:49 |
| TravT_ | There is also the whole notion of making incremental progress in client side code which can be done each release. | 20:50 |
| mrunge | are we slowly progressing to the next topic? | 20:50 |
| mrunge | david-lyle, ? | 20:50 |
| david-lyle | we seemed to have jumped yes | 20:51 |
| david-lyle | so we'll skip one and | 20:51 |
| mrunge | shortly back to split: it's cancelled? | 20:51 |
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| david-lyle | #topci State of REST API - how much should be implemented | 20:51 |
| david-lyle | #topic State of REST API - how much should be implemented | 20:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "State of REST API - how much should be implemented (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 20:51 | |
| david-lyle | and go | 20:51 |
| TravT_ | mrunge: maybe "tenatively postponed"? | 20:52 |
| r1chardj0n3s | current REST API WIP is at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136676/19 | 20:52 |
| david-lyle | I don't think we can take another postponement | 20:52 |
| mrunge | TravT_, well, up to the point, that it doesn't make sense any more? | 20:52 |
| david-lyle | mrunge: unless you really want to drive it, I think we should forget it | 20:53 |
| r1chardj0n3s | at this point, it seems uncontroversial, and it implements enough to support the identity angular work, but it's obviously not a "complete" API and certainly doesn't have a complete unit test coverage | 20:53 |
| doug-fish | +1 on cancelling the split | 20:53 |
| r1chardj0n3s | so, how much more should be done on it before it's merged so others can start work on fleshing it out to their needs? | 20:53 |
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| david-lyle | r1chardj0n3s: certainly needs tests before merging, but beyond that it doesn't need to be complete | 20:54 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: so, full test coverage of the code as-is | 20:55 |
| r1chardj0n3s | I was also mulling over how this new API is to be documented | 20:55 |
| doug-fish | just to be clear, we aren't really going to create an "API" are we? Like with stability? We just want an interface for our code. | 20:56 |
| TravT_ | doug-fish: +1 | 20:57 |
| mrunge | :D | 20:57 |
| mrunge | my point! | 20:57 |
| rbertram | doug-fish: meaning we don't want 3rd parties to use it? | 20:57 |
| doug-fish | right | 20:57 |
| r1chardj0n3s | hm | 20:57 |
| TravT_ | mrunge: ahh! now I see your point. | 20:57 |
| doug-fish | we want to retain full rights to change this often and without warning | 20:57 |
| r1chardj0n3s | yep | 20:57 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | sorry mrunge I totally didn't catch that from what you were saying! | 20:58 |
| r1chardj0n3s | yes, the intention is that this API exists to support Horizon-the-angular-application | 20:58 |
| r1chardj0n3s | and should be free to change to suit that purpose without repurcussion | 20:58 |
| david-lyle | nothing else | 20:58 |
| r1chardj0n3s | yep | 20:58 |
| TravT_ | +100 | 20:59 |
| david-lyle | yes, we're not publishing an API | 20:59 |
| DuncanT | Apologies for butting in, but there's only a few minutes left. We added an API to cinder to allow the policy for the current tenant to be cheacked via REST. This was suggested by a Horizon dev at the cinder mid-cycle meetup. The link is in the minutes, and there's a discussion thread on openstack-dev but no feedback yet. We believe it is good enough to allow | 20:59 |
| DuncanT | the CLI to offer better help etc, but wondered if you guys could cast an eye over it before we merged it? | 20:59 |
| david-lyle | DuncanT: I will take a look | 20:59 |
| DuncanT | Thanks | 20:59 |
| DuncanT | I'm thinking about proposing it for other projects if it seems useful | 21:00 |
| david-lyle | DuncanT: my main concern would be fragmentation across services, but let me look in more detail | 21:00 |
| r1chardj0n3s | ok, so in terms of documenting the API, how about I try to set some good docstring pracises in the patch I'm authoring and we'll try to hold people to that? | 21:00 |
| david-lyle | ah, seems you're on the same page | 21:00 |
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| david-lyle | r1chardj0n3s: +1 | 21:00 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | ok, I think I have a clear path forward for that. I should be able to knock those remaining tasks off pretty quickly | 21:01 |
| david-lyle | great | 21:02 |
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| TravT_ | thanks r1chardj0n3s | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | out of time and missed the third party item, apologies | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | Thanks everyone! | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | #endmeeting | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 21:02:47 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-12-03-20.00.html | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-12-03-20.00.txt | 21:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-12-03-20.00.log.html | 21:02 |
| r1chardj0n3s | shucks! | 21:02 |
| mrunge | thanks! | 21:02 |
| r1chardj0n3s | I'll take it to the ML :) | 21:03 |
| david-lyle | openstack-horizon is always open and we can continue there | 21:03 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | thanks everyone! | 21:03 |
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| neillc | thanks all | 21:03 |
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