Wednesday, 2014-12-17

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mesteryamotoki armax: I don't see markmcclain or salv-orlando here for the neutron-drivers meeting, should we postpone this week then?15:30
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armaxmestery: technically we have a quorum, but perhaps it’s best to postpone15:31
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mesteryarmax: Yeah, agreed, though I know marun wanted to discuss something.15:31
mesterymarun: markmcclain and salv-orlando are not here :(15:31
amotokimestery: armax: agree too.15:31
mesterySorry marun, not sure where those guys are :(15:32
mesteryWe'll postpone unless they show up in the next 5-10 minutes I guess.15:32
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amotokimestery: you just approved rpc versioning bp from russel. it is theoretically backward incomapt, but I agree the direction as we actually does not support true live upgrading. are we in the same page?15:38
mesteryamotoki: Yes, and apologies if you wanted to review that first, but I wanted to get that one this week yet.15:39
russellbhappy to discuss any concerns15:39
russellbbut yeah, that was the crux of my position  ... if live upgrades don't actually work, i don't see a need to do extra work on backwards compat15:39
mesteryrussellb: ++, I agreed and why I approved :)15:40
amotokirussellb: I don't see any actual concerns now. we have deadlock of versioning between the server and agent side now....15:40
russellbthe BPs i've been working on are many things in a path to get to live upgrades though :)15:40
mesteryThat's because you're awesome russellb. :)15:40
amotokiso i believe it is the right direction we move forward.15:40
russellbamotoki: ok thanks!15:40
russellbmaybe we should start a doc to lay out the path to live upgrades15:41
russellbnot really a spec15:41
mesteryrussellb: ++ to that, that woudl be awesome15:41
russellbjust a document of the known issues and high level efforts that have to happen to get there15:41
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russellbi'll write a note ... that's not something i'll have the energy for pre-holiday :)15:41
mesteryrussellb: Are you done for the year this week?15:42
mesteryrussellb: I'll be around off and on the next 2 weeks.15:42
mesteryMostly on, swithcing jobs means less vacation this year :(15:42
russellbi'm around this week, and first 2 days of next week in theory15:42
russellbreally tempting to cut those days too though15:42
russellbah yes :(15:42
russellbyeah, i took a *huge* vacation cut when i changed jobs last15:42
mesterySame here, it's awful but I guess it's part of the game. :(15:43
russellbi think i had gotten up to getting like 8 weeks a year15:43
russellbit was insane15:43
mesteryOh wow!15:43
russellbi'll never get that again15:43
mestery8 weeks?!?!?!15:43
mesteryNo kidding.15:43
mesteryThat's crazy15:43
russellbi couldn't even use it all15:43
amotokirussellb: really? woo15:43
mestery8 weeks would be AWESOME.15:43
russellbanyway, days of past.15:43
russellbmaybe i don't remember right :)15:44
russellbmaybe it was "only" 615:45
russellbholiday is near.15:45
russellband i'm totally OK with that.15:45
* russellb double checks topic to make sure he's not totally disrupting a meeting15:45
mesteryWell, we were supposed to have a neutron-drivers meeting now, but we're 2 drivers down, so I guess it's postponed ;)15:46
mesteryBesides, this is like water cooler talk anyways, those of us working from home need this from time to time ;)15:46
russellbi absolutely do15:47
-amotoki- can go to bed in time :-)15:47
russellbi usually hang out in a few "social" channels for that reason15:47
russellband sometimes set up a google hangout as a virtual office15:47
mesteryAny specific ones?15:47
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mesteryamotoki: Good night, talk to you later!15:47
russellbamotoki: good night!15:48
amotokigood night. thanks15:48
russellbon hangouts, we usually just all mute ourselves15:48
dougwigThat sounds kinda creepy.  :)15:48
russellbyeah, it kinda is15:48
russellbbut it's like you're sitting around in a room with other people working15:49
russellbnot so lonely :-p15:49
russellbto each their own to find workplace sanity, i say15:49
pc_mSince you guys are doing water cooler chat... Can you look at 141932, which is improvement (?) to UT in VPN repo. Will do to FW and LB if this is desired.15:49
mesterypc_m: Pulling us back to work, brutal! ;)15:50
pc_mI'm all about business :)15:50
dougwigjust let us know if you start hauling around some object calling it your precious.15:50
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russellbif you do that, i'm not sure i want to know15:51
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* pc_m gee it got quiet...15:52
dougwigpc_m: 932 is failing jenkins15:52
* pc_m :)15:52
russellbpc_m: that work talk scared everyone off15:52
russellb(or guilted people back into doing real work)15:52
dougwiglooks like it might be yesterday's grenade fiasco.15:53
pc_mIt did, because of recent grenade issue. I resubmitted and it has passed all tests (still in queue though)15:53
dougwigi'd like it in LB, if you have time.15:53
pc_mThis change prevents us from adding override_nvalue() calls in UTs that use the policy stuff.15:53
pc_mdougwig: Sure, I can do that. Just want to make sure this gets through tests and everyone is cool with the change (hence the request)15:54
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alaski#startmeeting nova_cells17:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec 17 17:00:26 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is alaski. Information about MeetBot at
bauzasmy bell ringed :)17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_cells)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova_cells'17:00
alaskibauzas: :)17:00
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gilliardHello :)17:00
alaski#topic Cells manifesto17:01
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*** openstack changes topic to "Cells manifesto (Meeting topic: nova_cells)"17:01
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alaskiI just updated that based on some good feedback17:01
bauzasalaski: eh :)17:01
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alaskimore feedback is appreciated as always, but I think it's looking pretty good17:01
dansmithI'll try to hit that here in a bit17:02
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johnthetubaguyme too, interested in reviewing that17:02
bauzasalaski: the change looks pretty small17:02
bauzasalaski: so if you agree to add more mentions to the networking stuff later, I'm +1 with it17:03
alaskibauzas: great17:03
bauzasalaski: because I was thinking it was necessary to also discuss what would be the standard way for networks in cells17:03
alaskiI agree.  But I don't have anything together for that right now17:04
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alaskibut it's open for proposals17:04
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bauzasso, let's move on, and discuss on it later on17:04
alaski#topic Testing17:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Testing (Meeting topic: nova_cells)"17:04
johnthetubaguyalaski: I think we should go all in on neutron, assuming nova-network is dead by then, but lets move on17:04
alaskisame stuff at
alaskinewest failures at the bottom17:05
alaskiI tackled the test_host_negative tests and have a review up, which needs some unit tests17:05
alaskibut there are plenty more to look at17:05
dansmithalaski: should we queue up a patch to remove the flavor query from the libvirt driver on top of my flavor patch to see if cells is happy with it?17:06
bauzasalaski: could you please provide the devstack logs also ?17:06
alaskidansmith: yeah, that would be a great test17:06
bauzasalaski: because if not, it needs to run a cells devstack17:06
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alaskibauzas: I can include a link to the job I pulled the failures from17:07
bauzasnevermind, I'm bad at reading17:07
alaskiand a 'check experimental' can run the tests for logs as well17:07
melwittdansmith: I thought garyk had a patch up to do something like that -- pass the flavor to driver instead of driver lookup?17:07
bauzas seems to be right change to look at17:08
mriedemmelwitt: i think those are short-term17:08
dansmithmelwitt: different anyway I think17:08
alaskibauzas: yes, that's a good one17:08
dansmithmelwitt: but I'll look17:08
alaskimelwitt: that change merged17:08
melwittoh, sorry17:08
alaskithat's what brought the test failures as low as they are17:08
dansmithalaski: link?17:08
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dansmithI see17:09
alaskidansmith: so that's actually what should be removed17:09
dansmithdoesn't this undo things?17:10
dansmithmeaning, I'd think it causes a bunch of the driver to look at potentially different flavor bits17:10
dansmithinstead of just the extra_specs bit17:10
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alaskiI'd have to look at the proceeding patch again, but I think the passed in flavor should match what would have been queried in the driver17:11
dansmithmaybe the driver was already being too aggressive there actually17:11
dansmithanyway, that's fine, sorry for the distraction17:11
alaskiit probably was17:12
alaskino worries17:12
alaskianything else on testing?17:12
alaski#topic Table analysis17:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Table analysis (Meeting topic: nova_cells)"17:12
alaskiUnless there are objections I think we should move the uncontroversial tables into the devref for now17:13
alaskias a follow on to the cells page started with the manifesto17:13
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dansmithsounds like a good incremental step17:14
johnthetubaguyyeah +1 on that17:14
bauzasalaski: I vote for a conservative way of explaining this using lots of conditionals : "it should", "we may" etc. :D17:14
alaskithat will give some concrete examples to reference while discussing things or writing specs17:14
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alaskibauzas: sure.  There can be a disclaimer that this is the current breakdown, but nothing is final until it's coded, and not even then17:15
bauzasalaski: I like this :)17:15
alaskianyone want to make make the devref review?17:16
alaskiokay, I'll add it as a followup to the manifesto review17:17
alaski#topic Cells scheduling17:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Cells scheduling (Meeting topic: nova_cells)"17:17
alaskiThe big topic for today17:17
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alaskithere's a lot of stuff in there17:18
dansmithI haven't looked at this yet, but I will after the meeting17:18
* dansmith sucks17:18
alaskiI made a proposal to start the discussion, but am not necessarily advocating what's currently up17:19
bauzasalaski: yeah, I think the discussion is very large17:19
dansmiththe other thing we can do,17:19
bauzasalaski: see all our current discussions in the table analysis that are also related to the scheduler placement decision17:19
dansmithis expect that the current scheduling approach will apply to cells as if it was a single deployment,17:20
bauzasdansmith: +100017:20
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dansmithwith the note that we can't do anything other than prove that the rest of the stuff works until we address the scale problem17:20
bauzasdansmith: I'm seeing the nova-scheduler code as something unique, but which can be deployed in many ways17:20
dansmithso, we can't dump cellsv1 until the scheduler scales, but at least we're able to move forward on the rest of the bits which are more structural17:20
* dansmith wonders what johnthetubaguy thinks of that17:21
bauzasdansmith: ie. if it's a scalability problem, then we can consider having a nova-scheduler for only cells picking and one nova-scheduler process per cell17:21
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johnthetubaguydansmith: I think thats what I was thinking too, if I understand you correctly17:21
johnthetubaguybasically, we need *something* to give us (cell, host, node), lets make that a single RPC call to the "scheduler"17:21
bauzasat the moment, the scheduler is unable to pick a cell, so I would propose to add a new RPC method for this17:22
johnthetubaguywhat happens next, needs fixing before we drop v117:22
dansmithright, and then we can fix what is behind it17:22
dansmithjohnthetubaguy: yeah, agreed17:22
dansmithalaski: thoughts?17:22
alaskiI'm okay with that approach17:23
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bauzasdo we all agree to extend the current nova-scheduler ?17:23
johnthetubaguyalaski: I wonder if tasks could help your worries in the spec?17:23
dansmithbauzas: I don't agree to that17:24
johnthetubaguyalaski: the global cell records the user request as a task17:24
dansmithbauzas: I agree to not hinge cellsv2 on the non-scaling scheduler problem :P17:24
johnthetubaguyalaski: once the scheduler is done, we create the instance record?17:24
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alaskiwhat I like is the interface between the API and cells being flexible enough to handle a few scheduler deployment scenarios17:24
alaskiand look at a single scheduler right now17:24
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alaskijohnthetubaguy: tasks would help, yes17:25
johnthetubaguyalaski: right, the above interface we describe could actually be a services that first quieres a cell, then uses that to pick the next scheduler to ask, then returns, etc17:25
alaskijohnthetubaguy: I proposed something that starts to look like a task in the spec17:25
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: do we consider to elect a cell first and then a host ?17:25
johnthetubaguyalaski: I should read further down, sorry!17:25
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johnthetubaguydansmith: thats a good point though, the question is do we want a DB record by the time the API returns, or does the API return wait for the scheduler to finish17:26
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johnthetubaguydansmith: I skipped over that before, and having a "task" recorded in the global DB fixes that a little17:26
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dansmithjohnthetubaguy: gotta have something before the API returns I'd think, but we can just shove it into the mapping at that point, right?17:26
alaskiWe need to store a little more than the mapping can hold17:27
dansmithlike what?17:27
dansmithmore than just a uuid?17:27
bauzasalaski: you mean the spec ?17:27
dansmithI guess we have to look like we've recorded all the information they gave us...17:27
alaskibauzas: not the spec17:28
alaskidansmith: yes17:28
alaskiwe need to fulfill the current api contract if they show the instance right away17:28
bauzasalaski: gilliard and I left a comment on why you're considering the whole story as async17:28
dansmithalaski: we could go ahead and add an instance json cache table :)17:28
bauzasalaski: that's still unclear for me17:29
* johnthetubaguy shudders17:29
alaskidansmith: heh, that would probably work17:29
dansmithjohnthetubaguy: are you shuddering at me?17:29
alaskiI was thinking of storing it almost as a task17:29
johnthetubaguydansmith: yeah, its feels nasty, but its annoying because it works...17:29
dansmithjohnthetubaguy: I thought there was a goal of doing that anyway?17:30
alaskibauzas: because the API should be snappy, and waiting for the scheduler won't allow that17:30
dansmithjohnthetubaguy: even for running instances17:30
johnthetubaguydansmith: yeah, we do need a cache eventually, thats true, I mean we might need to index on other things, but yeah17:30
bauzasalaski: but how are you sure that the contract you give back to the user is valid ?17:31
bauzassorry guys, I know about the tasks proposal but I just want to make sure we all agree with the idea to return an uuid with a building state ?17:31
bauzasand then just provide to the user a fail status if not ?17:31
johnthetubaguybauzas: think about listing all your instances, etc, its more that bit I worry about17:32
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: hell yeah17:32
alaskidansmith: johnthetubaguy we need somewhere to store some info.  task or instance cache should work now, we should probably get that on the review and debate/think on it there17:32
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dansmithyeah, I have a hard time thinking these things through without actually doing them,17:32
johnthetubaguyalaski: yeah, sounds like its hit all the major issues, I should just review the written detail17:32
dansmith'cause I'm weak-minded17:33
alaskidansmith: hah, I find that hard to believe17:33
alaskibauzas: I don't think returning before scheduling changes the contract we have now, because we dont currently wait on scheduling17:33
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bauzasalaski: right17:34
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alaskiso I'm not sure why we would start to wait on scheduling17:34
bauzasalaski: gotcha17:34
alaskianything else on scheduling for now?17:35
dansmithplease no.17:35
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alaskialright, please add thoughts to the review17:36
alaski#topic Open Discussion17:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova_cells)"17:36
alaskiGeneral announcement, the next meeting will be Jan 7th17:36
alaskianything else people would like to discuss?17:37
alaskigoing once...17:37
alaskialright, early marks all around!17:38
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:38
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec 17 17:38:31 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:38
openstackMinutes (text):
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alaskithanks everyone!17:38
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gilliardthanks alaski17:39
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gleboSridharRamaswamy: u running the mtg?18:34
SridarKglebo: wrong Sridar18:34
gleboSridharRamaswamy: sorry, meant to send that to SK18:34
gleboSridarK: ja18:35
SridarKglebo: SumitNaiksatam is starting i thinks18:35
SumitNaiksatamhi folks18:35
SumitNaiksatam#startmeeting Networking FWaaS18:35
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec 17 18:35:13 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:35
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:35
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas'18:35
gleboSridarK:  ah yes, just saw him join18:35
SridarKhi all18:35
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SumitNaiksatam#info metting agenda
SumitNaiksatam#info Kilo-1 is 12/1818:35
badvelihello all18:35
SumitNaiksatamin case you have any code in the pipeline18:36
SumitNaiksatam#topic FWaaS code split and work items18:36
*** openstack changes topic to "FWaaS code split and work items (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:36
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: we need to revive this one #link ?18:37
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: i have one on the UT - have some issues - talked to pcm on this and may see what is happening18:37
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SumitNaiksatami see a few other pending patches #link,n,z18:38
SumitNaiksatamwill get to that18:39
SumitNaiksatamanyone has any other items to discuss from the repo split?18:39
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glebodid we come up w/ a name yet?18:40
SumitNaiksatamglebo: neutron-fwaas18:40
SumitNaiksatami dont believe we have the charter to choose a name here18:40
SumitNaiksatamwould be cool though18:41
SumitNaiksatamanything else on this?18:41
glebosorry, for the post-split adv serv line18:41
glebothe line formerly known as positron18:41
SridarKglebo: :-)18:41
SumitNaiksatamglebo: there is no “adv service” project18:42
SumitNaiksatamglebo: three new repos have been created - fwaas, lbaas, vpnaas18:42
gleboah. we ended up splitting it 3 ways after all. Ok then.18:43
SumitNaiksatamthese, for now, only house the plugins and the drivers18:43
SumitNaiksatamglebo: this is old news though ;-)18:43
gleboi'm old guy18:43
gleboso it fits18:43
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SumitNaiksatamcurrently we are following up on action items after the split so that the tests pass on the neutron-fwaas repo18:43
SumitNaiksatamok moving one18:44
SumitNaiksatam#topic Bugs18:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:44
SumitNaiksatamI dont see anything new in my filter18:44
SumitNaiksatamhowever, that brings up an important question - where would the bugs for neutron-fwaas be filed18:45
SumitNaiksatamnot sure if this is still going to be in neutron18:45
SumitNaiksatami dont see a launchpad project yet18:45
SumitNaiksatam#action SumitNaiksatam to check with mestery on where to file bugs for split repositories (neutron-fwaas) in this case18:46
mesteryNeutron LP project SumitNaiksatam.18:46
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SumitNaiksatammestery: ah ok, thanks for the quick answer18:46
mesteryFor Kilo, we'll keep them all together and reevaluate later.18:46
mesterySure! :)18:46
SumitNaiksatammestery: ok thanks18:46
SumitNaiksatambadveli: SridarK: any critical bug show up your radar18:47
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: nothing new18:47
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: okay18:47
SumitNaiksatamthen moving on18:47
badvelii am following up
badveli nothing new18:48
SumitNaiksatambadveli: by following up you mean, are there any new developments?18:48
SumitNaiksatamah, you said nothing new18:48
SumitNaiksatamok moving on18:48
SumitNaiksatam#topic Docs18:48
*** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:48
badveli no there is another bug in security18:49
badvelisimilar bug18:49
SumitNaiksatamhaven’t hear from Swami, so I think we are still in wait and watch mode18:49
SumitNaiksatambadveli: you mean #link ?18:49
badveli yes18:49
badveli nothing going on18:50
SumitNaiksatam#topic FWaaS Specs18:50
*** openstack changes topic to "FWaaS Specs (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:50
SumitNaiksatamso the first the vendor specs18:51
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SumitNaiksatamsince I believe all that were proposed were merged, right?18:51
SumitNaiksatamdid anything get left out?18:51
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SumitNaiksatamso i guess not18:52
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: yes i believe so i think the intel one had a minor issue and should be in18:52
SumitNaiksatamyou mean that the L3 spec did not need to proposed?18:52
SumitNaiksatamthe -> their18:52
SridarKyes related to that on the FW - Kyle had asked for the dependency to be removed18:53
vishwanathjThey have now removed the dependency in their latest patch upload18:53
SumitNaiksatamgot it, just +2’ed18:54
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: yes that is the one18:54
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SumitNaiksatammestery: just +2’ed this #link (so we have two +2s now)18:55
mesterySumitNaiksatam: Also +A'd :)18:56
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SumitNaiksatammestery: thanks again! :-)18:56
mesterySumitNaiksatam: Thank you as well :)18:56
SumitNaiksatamso on to SridarK’s spec18:56
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SridarKSumitNaiksatam: thanks18:56
SridarKmore review comments - with issues on backward compat and upgrades18:57
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: thanks for diligently engaging with the reviewers and promptly providing responses18:57
SridarKno worries - good to get the shake out now18:57
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: wanted to bring this up here for discussion so we can close quickly18:58
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: yes sure18:58
SridarKI think the approach taken was that we have some wiggle room because we are experimental18:58
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: so lets take each pending point18:58
SridarKBut will be good to thrash it out18:59
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: regarding the default insertion semantics18:59
SridarKat least as i see it - there are possibly 3 approaches18:59
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SridarKOption 1: as in the current proposal: we don't worry about backward compat19:00
SridarKIf there is not enough deployment and being experimental - we make the change and don’t address backward compatibility or upgrade. Behavior on upgrade Firewall logical resource will be created - but will not be installed on any Router. The Firewall will be in PENDING_CREATE. An update on the Firewall with a Router - will drive it to ACTIVE. Upgrade/migration is a problem, going from 1 Firewall on all Routers —> 1 Fi19:00
SridarKThis the approach taken on the spec19:00
SridarKsome valid points raised on making sure that we want to do this and if we to make sure messaging is very clear19:01
SridarKOption 2:  If a Router is specified on the create - it will only be installed on that specific Router. If no Routers are specified on the API - we default to current behavior - the Firewall will be inserted on all Routers on the tenant. Updates to now go to a single router will be a bit tricky. And if we are in the current model (default) when new Routers are added to the tenant - they will need to be tracked and the Fi19:01
SridarKThis is kind of a hybrid19:02
SridarKi fear some complexity here and i think we want to get away from the all routers model19:02
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: so “And if we are in the current model (default) when new Routers are added to the tenant - they will need to be tracked”...19:03
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: is something we are already doing, right?19:03
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: yes that is one part of the complexity - we will need to do that19:03
badveli  we get a trigger19:03
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SridarKand when routers are added to the tenant - we will need to add them to be tracked19:04
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: i meant to say that we are already doing this today, so it wont be a new implementation19:04
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: for this part19:04
SridarKofcourse today we do not track this19:04
SumitNaiksatamoh we dont?19:04
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SridarKwell the db does not track the routers today19:05
SridarKone of the issues we want to fix19:05
SumitNaiksatamah ok, but we apply the firewall to any new router that gets added19:05
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: yes19:05
badvelisridark we get a trigger19:05
SumitNaiksatamif we had to implement option 2, we would need an internal state to keep track if the firewal was in default insertion mode or not19:05
SridarKthat is for the agent19:06
SridarKbadveli: that is for the agent19:06
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: exactly - we kind of keep the old semantics and the new one as parallel implementations19:06
badveli yes what i am trying to say is we can add to the db19:06
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: if it was in default mode, then we would need to take the code path as of today19:06
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: yes, i was going there19:06
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: ok whats option 3?19:07
SridarKa bit complex but we can do that if we can't use our "experimental" card19:07
SridarKok let me get there,19:07
badveli sridark initially i was saying this specifying a router19:07
SridarKOption 3: Posted by Cedric in the review - why not multiple Routers ? This is similar to the previous Service Insertion proposal in Juno. We can handle migration by putting it on all Routers.19:07
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SridarKbadveli: yes we can will need to trigger that from the agent msging19:07
SridarKthis will solve the migration problem as addressed in the Juno spec19:08
badvelisridar, as i was saying we should make the router as an optional so that we do not have much complexity and fulfills what we need19:08
SumitNaiksatambadveli: it is already optional19:09
SridarKbadveli: yes it is optional19:09
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: seems like option 3 can be reach either via option 1 or 219:09
badvelithe previous time we had the meeting i was saying this as i was worried about the upgradation/downgrade part19:09
SridarKbadveli: the point of this exercise was also to get specific on the router to insert and not on all routers19:10
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: i mean as a process of evolution from option 1 (since that has only insetion for one router)19:10
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: yes that is correct19:10
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: but option 3 is more readily reached from option 2, since option 2 already supports on multiple routers (all in that case)19:11
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: the point raised by Cedric was that Option 3 gives us a migration pathg19:11
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: migration path to what?19:11
SridarKcurrent model: 1 FW - All routers  ----> new model 1 FW but put on all routers (but tracked)19:12
SumitNaiksatami believe Cedric is zzele?19:12
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: the migration path19:12
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: i am not sure19:12
gleboseems to me that option 2's default if no router specified is "all routers" whereas option 1's default if no router specified is "no routers"19:12
SridarKglebo: yes correct19:12
gleboI think we need to pick one of those as a base19:12
SumitNaiksatamglebo: that is corect19:12
glebothen 3 is the "add on" behavior19:12
SumitNaiksatamglebo: yes, it boils down to that19:12
SridarKyes, in option 1 we can specify only 1 router19:13
gleboI like 3 with default to "no routers"19:13
SumitNaiksatamglebo: yes, but 3 is easier to achieve through option 2 (because we would have already implemented some of it)19:13
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  less interested in what's "easy",  more interested in what meets customer environment19:14
SumitNaiksatamglebo: completely agree19:14
SridarKglebo: yes definitely19:14
SumitNaiksatamglebo: do you have customer feedback on this?19:14
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  (but not to undervalue time to implement)19:14
SumitNaiksatamglebo: since no one chimed on the spec, i took it at that there isnt particular customer preference on this19:14
SridarKglebo: the point is more on the migration and backward compat aspects - if it is experimental can we look for a simpler model19:14
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  well… really I don't see customers much wanting to even deploy on routers, i.e. at L3, to be honest19:15
SumitNaiksatamglebo: good point19:15
SumitNaiksatamglebo: that opens a different can of worms! ;-)19:15
SumitNaiksatamglebo: very much in agreement though19:15
SumitNaiksatamok back to SridarK’s points19:15
SridarKglebo: pls :-)19:15
glebocustomers mostly want to insert "invisibly" at L2 on the OVS19:15
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  it does.19:16
SridarKglebo: lets solve this problem first19:16
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  so let me answer a different question:19:16
gleboQ: do customers care much about the default behavior?19:16
glebowrt L3 insertion, that is…19:16
glebo… yes, I think they do.19:16
SridarKglebo: it is also with regard to backward compat19:17
SwamiSumitNaiksatam: I saw -2 on the FwaaS east-west spec are you aware about it.19:17
gleboThey don't want us default adding FW services all over the place, on every L3 instance. They would prefer to build up, rather than filter down, as I see it19:17
SumitNaiksatamglebo: SridarK: its also with regards to addressing reviewers here, without which we cannot make progress! ;-)19:17
SumitNaiksatamSwami: yes19:17
SridarKglebo: yes that indeed is the point that we want to be specific rather than all over the place19:18
gleboit's experimental today. Very little use in real world (if any?)19:18
gleboI'm not sure we have any bakward to break.19:18
glebosee my point?19:18
SridarKglebo: can we break existing deployment if any ?19:18
SumitNaiksatamglebo: so yes, that would justify the motivation for option 1 with a patch to moving to option 319:18
SridarKis the question19:18
glebolet's get the architecture right for the customer, and do it now, when people have other things to fix and update anyway, before we start getting real deployment19:19
SumitNaiksatamglebo: but people have raised the concern about backward compat on the reviews so we need a good answer19:19
SridarKmestery: could i pls trouble u to jump in as well regarding the backward compat issues19:19
SumitNaiksatamglebo: it will be helpful if you bring your points to the gerrit spec as well19:19
SumitNaiksatamglebo: in response to some of the reviewers comments19:19
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  are those reviewers aware of the sample size N of deployments, where N <= 2?19:20
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  ack on review in gerrit.19:20
SumitNaiksatamglebo: in fact that question asked back to the author!19:20
SumitNaiksatamso please comment on the reviews19:20
SridarKglebo: it is good to thrash these out now so it is well communicated to any deployers19:20
SridarKglebo: i think that is one of the points raised in the review19:21
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  in that effort, do any of you have deployers?19:21
SumitNaiksatamso if i have to summarize, the team here thinks that Option 1 with a path to moving to Option 3 is preferred?19:21
gleboWe had PoC's in progress, but no deployers. Others? It would be good to validate my sense of the un-deployed nature of FWaaS today19:21
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gleboSumitNaiksatam:  yes, and we feel that because N is very low, if any19:22
SumitNaiksatamglebo: yes19:22
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: glebo: I think that is the assumption we went with19:22
glebocan others pipe up now if you have customers deployed that would be wrenched by this change of behavior.19:23
* glebo listening?19:23
SridarKglebo: as a vendor -  i do not see an issue19:23
* glebo hears the sound of silence19:23
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SridarKglebo: i heard from brocade that it was fine for them19:23
SumitNaiksatamtime check - we have 5 mins19:24
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  based on this sounding, can we let the minutes reflect that the vendors are fine w/ letting go the backward compaitbilty requirement due to insignificant number of deployments?19:24
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SumitNaiksatamglebo: absolutely19:25
SridarKglebo: pls do comment on the spec if possible19:25
SumitNaiksatamthat said some of the reviewers engaged on the spec review are not here19:25
gleboSridarK:  will do, but I want to be able to point to a minute entry to back up my assertion of low N19:25
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SumitNaiksatamand it can be argued that such consensus should be reflected on the gerrit spec19:25
SridarKi will reach out to mastery: and other reviewers on the spec to make sure that they are okay19:26
SumitNaiksatamso please comment on the spec, #link
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  can you do that irc voodoo to make that point a minuted item?19:26
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: thanks much for your persistence and effort on this19:26
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: no worries19:26
SumitNaiksatamglebo: good point19:26
badvelisumit do any deployer raise fwaas bugs?19:26
gleboack, well done SridarK19:26
SumitNaiksatam#agree the fwaas team (with their vendor hats) think that breaking current backward compat is not an issue19:26
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  that way I can point to it easily in my review19:27
badveli my point is based on that can we have any idea of the deployments19:27
SumitNaiksatam#agreed the fwaas team (with their vendor hats) think that breaking current backward compat is not an issue19:27
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  thx, m819:27
SumitNaiksatamglebo: ;-)19:27
SumitNaiksatamthe above is in context of those who are present here19:28
SridarKok so i will go back to spec and state this19:28
SumitNaiksatamthere might be others who are outside this meeting and might have a different opinion based on their deployments19:28
badveli  yes19:28
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: do you have enough agreement here to wrap up the spec?19:29
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SridarL*sorry got bounced and my typing is horrible now i have a new name19:30
* SumitNaiksatam thinks SridarK has figured out a way to clone!19:30
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  sure, always might be others. Did you have particular vendor in mind?19:30
* SumitNaiksatam expect at least 26 Sridars now! great for the fwaas team! ;-P19:30
SumitNaiksatamglebo: perhaps those who have commented on the reviews19:31
SumitNaiksatamglebo: will have to check their affiliations ;-P19:31
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  k19:31
SumitNaiksatamok we got wrap here folks19:31
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: hope this was helpful19:31
SumitNaiksatamthanks all for your input and participation19:32
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badveli    no service spec19:32
SridarLyes certainly - i will await response from reviewers19:32
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SumitNaiksatamlets keep it going on the gerrit specs and the mailers19:32
badveli sumit quickly wanted to check what should we do?19:32
SumitNaiksatambadveli: i think you are doing all the right things19:32
SumitNaiksatamnot sure what else can be done19:32
badveli thanks sumit19:33
SumitNaiksatami will end the meeting here, we can continue the discussion on #openstack-fwaas19:33
glebomestery:  ideas for badveli and I on the service spec?19:33
glebono reviews as of yet19:33
glebo4 th round trying to get this into a release19:33
badveli i have the code ready19:34
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glebomestery:  there?19:34
SumitNaiksatamglebo: wait some more?19:36
glebowhen the services spec got bounced from Juno,19:36
badveli    thanks glebo, i think no response19:36
glebobadveli and I asked PTL and upward why. the19:36
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gleboanswer was that we didn't get the "right" reviewers to review, even though the written process was followed to a "T", so19:37
glebowe asked which reviewers specifically were missing,19:37
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glebothe answer was someone representing API and someone from security19:37
gleboso we asked, who specifically19:37
gleboand we were told, "we'll identify them in kilo"19:38
gleboand we've asked in 4 emails, with no response,19:38
gleboso not sure how to proceed.19:38
gleboSumitNaiksatam:  guidance?19:38
SumitNaiksatamglebo: i have reviewed the spec in the past, and have +2’ed as well19:39
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SumitNaiksatamglebo: however the +2 was overriden19:39
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SumitNaiksatamglebo: at this point i believe we have exhausted most available optiopns19:40
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SumitNaiksatamsince the neutron drivers team is deciding which specs to approve or not, its difficult to discuss here19:40
SumitNaiksatamwe are 10 mins over19:40
SumitNaiksatamso i will close the meeting19:40
SumitNaiksatamthanks all and by19:40
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"19:41
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec 17 19:41:02 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:41
openstackMinutes (text):
badvelithanks all19:41
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david-lyle#startmeeting Horizon20:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec 17 20:01:26 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'horizon'20:01
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r1chardj0n3ssorry.    g'day20:02
david-lyleHello everyone20:02
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david-lyleWe are in the final hours of Kilo-120:03
david-lyleLet's take a quick look20:03
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david-lyletwo items left after I bumped a couple to kilo-220:04
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david-lylehas been around since Juno20:05
david-lylebut we didn't have time to get that in20:05
david-lylethe other20:05
david-lyleI found languishing in the review queue when I was going to purge old patches, seemed useful and needed a little straightening20:06
david-lyleany way if the first made it, that would be nice, but if it doesn't start merging soon, I'll push to k-220:07
TravTdavid-lyle: do you know if anything is wrong with zull.20:07
ericpetersonwe only have an hr or so here20:07
TravTit doesn't seem to be picking up that patch for testing.20:08
david-lylewell the queues are quite deep20:08
david-lyle129 in check and 45 in gate20:08
r1chardj0n3syay rush20:09
david-lyleso I'm going to just push the other two to k-2 and pass on the SHA on master for k-120:09
guglTravT, I have a cinderclient finished...but doesn't seem to get out of the queue..20:09
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david-lyletomorrow would be a great day to have the metadata admin functionality added to Horizon20:09
david-lylethat seems like the soonest20:10
david-lyleany way20:10
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david-lyle is quite large20:10
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david-lylelike all milestones some of that will likely slip as well20:11
TravTnow I see it.20:11
TravTtook forever for zuul browser page to load20:11
david-lyleanyway milestones, yay20:11
david-lylethe agenda for today can be found at #link
david-lyle#topic packaging Thunderdome20:12
*** openstack changes topic to "packaging Thunderdome (Meeting topic: Horizon)"20:12
mrungeuhm, rdopieralski is on pto for the rest of the year.20:13
r1chardj0n3sso I thought that we had pretty much reached a point where we could discuss a concrete plan; zigo is still a little nervous but I attribute that to unfamiliarity with bower20:13
mrungeso, maybe we should defer this to next year?20:13
r1chardj0n3sI'm not likely to be able to do anything until next year anyway20:13
r1chardj0n3sso yeah, I guess so. Thunderdome postponed I suppose (the crowd *will be disappointed*)20:14
* david-lyle throws rotten fruit20:14
mrungeand btw. there shouldn't be a reason to add another package manager....20:14
r1chardj0n3sbut I think there's solid support from everyone else? :)20:14
mrungeI guess, we're still not convinced20:15
mattfarinar1chardj0n3s is there any pre-reading for the Tunderdome we can do?20:15
david-lyleI think we really need to schedule something with the appropriate parties outside of the Horizon meeting and hash it out20:15
TravTwe need to get something resolved, because we need some new packages for angular development20:15
r1chardj0n3sdavid-lyle: that makes sense20:15
david-lylemattfarina: just a small email thread20:15
ericpetersonwill there be a fight in said meeting?20:15
mattfarinadavid-lyle i'll finish it some day... maybe20:15
mrungeA fight can only take place, when folks are physically at the same place20:16
r1chardj0n3smattfarina: yeah, that thread that hit a measly 120 messages ;)20:16
david-lylealright, let's table that until we have a quorum20:16
mrungedeferred till Vancouver then?20:16
TravTmattfarina: i read it.  i recommend bringing something to gouge your eyes out halfway through.20:16
robcresswellHmmm... my email filters are failing me.20:16
r1chardj0n3smrunge: gods no, we should be able to figure it out without postponing *months*20:16
mattfarinaTravT I didn't finish it because i got more than halfway though20:17
mrunger1chardj0n3s, I agree!20:17
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TravTin the meantime, if we can get xstatic for newer angular pieces through.  we need them for launch instance.20:18
david-lylemay be the email that killed hope20:19
david-lyle#topic REST API: should we be rewriting property names?20:19
*** openstack changes topic to "REST API: should we be rewriting property names? (Meeting topic: Horizon)"20:19
robcresswelldavid-lyle: Thankyou. Going to have to alter my mail filters -.-20:19
david-lylevague and mysterious a good title20:19
r1chardj0n3sunfortunately, tqtran isn't here to defend the practise he proposed of rewriting the property names :/20:19
david-lylecan you provide a point of reference?20:20
r1chardj0n3sso the current keystone REST API for the angular work rewrites "project" to be "project_id" for example20:20
david-lylesome of us have been happily sleeping20:20
r1chardj0n3sbut that turns out to be fraught, very very fraught20:20
ericpetersonseems like a bad idea to change the names20:20
david-lylewhy would we do that20:20
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robcresswellhaha, I think that reaction is your answer to this topic...20:21
r1chardj0n3sright :)20:21
david-lylethat's like refactoring all the horizon code in a private branch to make it prettier20:21
r1chardj0n3sI'll PM tqtran directll to nut it out with him20:21
david-lylethen trying to merge regularly with master20:21
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TravTr1chardj0n3s: how's this compare to the more passthrough approach I put into the glance rest api?20:21
* TravT still needs to revise it a bit further.20:22
david-lyleyeah, let's avoid renames20:22
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r1chardj0n3sTravT: basically we end up with what you've written :)20:22
TravTok.  i only have to do a tiny bit of massage on it because of v1 glanceclient20:22
TravTif we move to v2 glanceclient, i can drop even more20:23
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r1chardj0n3sa clear example of the rewriting is right at the bottom of,cm - project/project_id20:23
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r1chardj0n3sanyway, gonna kill it off20:24
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robcresswellI 'd be curious to hear tqtran's thoughts behind it, he was defending it? My immediate reaction would be to stop doing it, though.20:25
r1chardj0n3sit was his idea ;)20:25
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r1chardj0n3sI think it mostly came out of the front-end work20:26
r1chardj0n3sand the confusion around things that are ids not being clearly labelled as such in the API20:26
TravTr1chardj0n3s: I think we should try to go for as much passthrough as possible.20:26
david-lyleare we expecting that we'd be passing objects?20:26
r1chardj0n3sTravT: agreed20:26
david-lylewhat's the other choice than id20:27
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david-lylename, which is not unique20:27
r1chardj0n3sdavid-lyle: the ids inside objects are not labelled whatever_id20:27
r1chardj0n3sand those objects are passed around, yes20:27
TravTalso, if he refactored the calls to the api into a service that is injected into the controller, then he could make the function params in the service say "project_id"20:27
david-lyleas parameters?20:27
r1chardj0n3s(*json* objects that is)20:27
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david-lyleok, need to catch up non k-1 reviews20:28
david-lyle#topic REST API: Death by a million dependencies.20:28
*** openstack changes topic to "REST API: Death by a million dependencies. (Meeting topic: Horizon)"20:28
TravTthat one is mine20:29
r1chardj0n3sthere's enough pain dealing it the is-it-a-project-or-tenant mess without also dealing with is-it-project-or-project_id20:29
r1chardj0n3sbrb, sorry20:29
TravTon behalf of tqtran, r1chardj0n3s, other20:29
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TravTthat is a decorator richard wrote that we're using in a few places.  we're all really wishing we could get a base version landed20:30
TravTand then iterate on it20:30
david-lyleI agree we need to start landing some the dependencies20:32
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david-lyledid tihomir ever continue the conversation on the ML to reviews?20:33
TravTno.  he hasn't added to the specific reviews, but some of the property re-writing / passthrough speaks to his points.20:33
TravTin any case, I'm not sure the base decorator is contentious.20:34
david-lyleso reviews folks, please. says the most guilty20:35
david-lyle#Open Discussion20:36
david-lyle#topic Open Discussion20:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Horizon)"20:36
david-lylemessy words20:36
david-lyleI've updated #link with some more blueprints to review20:37
david-lyleIf you have a blueprint you are championing and don't see it in a milestone or on that list, target it to a milestone, so that I see it20:37
david-lyleI can only sift through so many before my mind starts swimming20:38
* david-lyle need to obsolete so many blueprints20:38
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asahlinIs this list only BP tageted for kilo-2?20:38
gugl2 is targeted for kilo-2, but not on your review list...the status you marked is review20:39
robcresswellr1chardj0n3s: I'll review the REST API patch tomorrow and ask colleagues to do the same - needs more attention.20:39
r1chardj0n3srobcresswell: ok thanks20:39
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PietLet me know when I can mention some UX stuff20:40
PietNeed feedback on the table pagination designs from Chris.
PietIf you haven't already, please reach-out to me if you want an account in Invision to review mocks20:41
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TravTplease note, you can turn on adding comments directly to the design20:41
TravTby toggling switch on bottom right20:41
PietJust send an email to pkruithofr@gmail if you want an account20:42
* TravT wonders how much spam Piet is about to get since this IRC meeting is logged.20:43
gugl2david-lyle: could you please add to your review list? Thanks20:43
PietIf you have time, please complete the online card sort for end users or forward the link to someone else
david-lylegugl2: was just looking at it20:43
gugl2david-lyle: k...thanks :)20:43
david-lyleand yes20:43
PietWe are running usability next week on the Launch Instance workflow20:43
PietI think that's it from a UX perspective.  Thanks to everyone for your feedback!20:44
david-lyleThanks Piet20:44
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david-lyleI will be offline the 19-27 Dec. I think most people will be for some portion of that or more.20:47
david-lyleadditionally, no meeting the next two weeks20:47
asahlindavid-lyle:  Can you also add to the review list?   It is currently targeted for kilo-3, but would like some feedback if anyone feels this is the right direction / a good addition.20:48
david-lyleasahlin: done20:49
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david-lyleanything else? or we can end early20:51
mrungegood idea :D20:51
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david-lyleAlright, I'll take end early. Have a great couple of weeks everyone. Thanks!20:52
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"20:52
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec 17 20:52:31 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:52
mattfarinayou too20:52
openstackMinutes (text):
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r1chardj0n3shappy festive and/or just plain vacation time everyone! :)20:52
mrungeyes, have a good time!20:53
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