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| vineetmenon | alaski: if you don't mind, please go thru this https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Scheduling_ver_0.09 | 12:37 |
|---|---|---|
| vineetmenon | it's a bit different from what you are proposing, but have a look nonetheless | 12:37 |
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| Sam-I-Am | hello | 15:00 |
| annegentle_ | hiya | 15:00 |
| annegentle_ | zigo: over here ok? | 15:00 |
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| annegentle_ | ok this one has meetbot, yay | 15:00 |
| annegentle_ | #startmeeting Doc Team | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 14 15:00:50 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegentle_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'doc_team' | 15:00 |
| annegentle_ | woops | 15:01 |
| annegentle_ | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 14 15:01:13 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/doc_team/2015/doc_team.2015-01-14-15.00.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/doc_team/2015/doc_team.2015-01-14-15.00.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/doc_team/2015/doc_team.2015-01-14-15.00.log.html | 15:01 |
| annegentle_ | #startmeeting docteam | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 14 15:01:24 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegentle_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| annegentle_ | whew | 15:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' | 15:01 |
| annegentle_ | welcome to 2015 | 15:01 |
| annegentle_ | #topic Action items from last meeting | 15:01 |
| annegentle_ | that was sooo long ago :) | 15:01 |
| Sam-I-Am | been a while | 15:01 |
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| annegentle_ | no actions from last time | 15:02 |
| annegentle_ | way back in 2014 | 15:02 |
| annegentle_ | moving on | 15:02 |
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| annegentle_ | #topic Specs ready | 15:02 |
| zigo2 | hi | 15:02 |
| annegentle_ | hi zigo2 | 15:02 |
| annegentle_ | we'll get to install guide in a few | 15:02 |
| annegentle_ | I approved the web design spec | 15:02 |
| annegentle_ | So the remaining spec for "just" docs is the driver docs | 15:03 |
| annegentle_ | doesn't look like we have Andreas here | 15:03 |
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| annegentle_ | but he sounded like he was hesitant that we hadn't talked to enough driver doc owners | 15:03 |
| annegentle_ | my sense is that we need to go forward with the spec and we've shopped it enough | 15:03 |
| annegentle_ | so I hope to check in with Andreas and approve it this week | 15:03 |
| annegentle_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133372/ | 15:04 |
| annegentle_ | that is the spec | 15:04 |
| annegentle_ | ah, it's Tom who's hesitant | 15:04 |
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| annegentle_ | he has a 2-phase approach that seems reasonable | 15:04 |
| annegentle_ | hopefully Andreas can circle back on that | 15:04 |
| annegentle_ | Other specs in review are for training, anyone from training want to speak to those? | 15:04 |
| Sam-I-Am | i havent seen him much lately | 15:05 |
| annegentle_ | yeah me neither | 15:05 |
| annegentle_ | just on epiphany | 15:05 |
| annegentle_ | No sarob, surely too early for him | 15:05 |
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| annegentle_ | Any other discussion on specs for this release? | 15:05 |
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| annegentle_ | There's also the networking guide spec from last release being worked this release, I'll leave that for the specialty team reports | 15:06 |
| annegentle_ | #topic Specialty teams reports | 15:06 |
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| Sam-I-Am | networking is here | 15:06 |
| annegentle_ | Networking, want to go ahead with the latest? I do appreciate the mailing list posts. | 15:06 |
| annegentle_ | go ahead Sam-I-Am | 15:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | sure | 15:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | we're back to weekly meetings again and met last friday. | 15:06 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i finished the neutron dvr scenario and sent it to the SMEs for review mid-december | 15:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | i received comments and applied some, but still looking for more details on some issues | 15:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | meanwhile, sean collins has started the provider networking scenario | 15:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | phil is working on converting his L3 HA scenario to the structure used by the other scenarios | 15:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | i'm working on the classic/legacy neutron scenario | 15:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | hopefully most of not all of these scenarios will be ready for conversion to docbook by the end of january | 15:08 |
| annegentle_ | ok great | 15:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | or at least ready for sme review | 15:08 |
| annegentle_ | and you have good sme support? | 15:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | next steps include the generic content which i've seen a few patches for | 15:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | it comes and goes | 15:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | a lot of the work has been more or less reading code and reverse engineering | 15:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | at least with the new/experimental stuff like dvr and l3ha | 15:09 |
| annegentle_ | yah | 15:09 |
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| annegentle_ | I know trystack pulled DVR back after deploying it | 15:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | we sort of built from 0 on those, whereas provider networks and classic neutron are somewhat documented | 15:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | i think the scenarios will be very useful since they describe functional environments | 15:10 |
| annegentle_ | right | 15:10 |
| annegentle_ | yup | 15:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | hopefully all of this is done and published by kilo | 15:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | where l3ha and dvr should be more prod ready | 15:10 |
| annegentle_ | fingers crossed. you all have a plan and work to the plan so that's ideal | 15:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | pretty much. that's all from me! | 15:10 |
| annegentle_ | okay, high availability team, anyone? | 15:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | they're not highly available yet? | 15:11 |
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| Sam-I-Am | hi andreas | 15:11 |
| annegentle_ | welcome AJaeger :) | 15:11 |
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| annegentle_ | So, there's this review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143910/ | 15:11 |
| annegentle_ | that needs work | 15:11 |
| AJaeger | sorry for beeing late... | 15:12 |
| annegentle_ | and they do have a weekly meeting time now | 15:12 |
| annegentle_ | no worries | 15:12 |
| annegentle_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/HA_Guide_Update | 15:12 |
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| annegentle_ | And they're hanging out in #openstack-haguide | 15:12 |
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| annegentle_ | also see | 15:13 |
| annegentle_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-haguide-update | 15:13 |
| annegentle_ | Anyone here from Security team? | 15:13 |
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| annegentle_ | I don't know much about their latest status | 15:13 |
| annegentle_ | And anyone from Training? | 15:14 |
| annegentle_ | Their weekly meeting is on Mondays | 15:14 |
| annegentle_ | ok that's it for specialty teams | 15:14 |
| annegentle_ | Let's move on | 15:14 |
| annegentle_ | #topic Install Guide discussion | 15:14 |
| annegentle_ | thanks AJaeger Sam-I-Am and zigo for being here even with the time change | 15:14 |
| * annegentle_ hangs head in time shame | 15:15 | |
| Sam-I-Am | it happens | 15:15 |
| AJaeger | no worries, annegentle_ | 15:15 |
| Sam-I-Am | i think we left off just before the debian stuff last meeting | 15:15 |
| annegentle_ | we had a good discussion last month about hte current state of each install guide | 15:15 |
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| annegentle_ | got some overall agreement on what the goals are for install guides that are in docs.openstack.org domain | 15:16 |
| annegentle_ | so wanted to talk through possible solutions | 15:16 |
| annegentle_ | Here's an etherpad with the ideas so far | 15:16 |
| annegentle_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/install-guides-upstream | 15:17 |
| annegentle_ | right now, Ubuntu/Debian has differences. We could just continue the way things are. | 15:17 |
| annegentle_ | We could make those two completely consistent | 15:17 |
| annegentle_ | We could stop publishing Debian version until it's consistent | 15:17 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle_: right now the debian guide is broken | 15:18 |
| annegentle_ | or | 15:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | based on the bugs i'm seeing | 15:18 |
| annegentle_ | Maintain debconf/Debian outside of docs.openstack.org with a matching one for docs.openstack.org | 15:18 |
| annegentle_ | or something else I haven't thought of | 15:18 |
| phil_h | My belief is that we should make them consistent | 15:18 |
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| annegentle_ | phil_h: that's great, are you able to do that? | 15:18 |
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| phil_h | sigh - yes | 15:19 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegentle_: i think it would just mean un-debconfing the debian stuff | 15:19 |
| phil_h | I know SAM-I-AM is smiling | 15:19 |
| annegentle_ | phil_h: Sam-I-Am: I do think it's pretty straightforward | 15:19 |
| Sam-I-Am | among other stuff (like packaging bugs i'm seeing) | 15:19 |
| annegentle_ | zigo: but where will you publish your debconf one? | 15:19 |
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| zigo2 | please don't remove the debconf stuff from the docs. | 15:20 |
| annegentle_ | let's make sure zigo2 and zigo can keep up on his phone | 15:20 |
| zigo2 | sorry, I' back home soon. | 15:20 |
| annegentle_ | zigo2: but what do we do about the technical debt? I need solutions. | 15:20 |
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| Sam-I-Am | zigo2: the debian part of the guide has been broken since at least the juno release | 15:20 |
| annegentle_ | zigo2: no worries, I'm impressed you can type on your phone :) | 15:20 |
| zigo2 | coulld we talk about debian in 15 minz? | 15:20 |
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| Sam-I-Am | it keeps getting more and more bugs that no one triages | 15:20 |
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| phil_h | And the continual need for maintenance | 15:21 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: was there another technical solution with a conditional chapter we thought of? | 15:21 |
| annegentle_ | zigo2: absoluletly, we have other agenda items | 15:21 |
| * AJaeger doesn't remember anything | 15:21 | |
| annegentle_ | ok, tabling the Install Guide topic for now | 15:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | mmkay, guess we'll wait | 15:21 |
| annegentle_ | #topic Doc tools latest | 15:22 |
| annegentle_ | So, clouddocs-maven-plugin will not have a patch with a "split" like I had thought, so that only OpenStack branding is in the stackforge repo | 15:22 |
| annegentle_ | Unless I identify someone to do the split, it'll remain where it is. | 15:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | what? | 15:23 |
| annegentle_ | I'd like to do a 2.1.4 release to get a couple of bug fixes in (there's a nasty one in the Ops Guide) then set it on maintenance only | 15:23 |
| annegentle_ | with releases only about every year if we need it | 15:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | who's working on that these days? | 15:23 |
| annegentle_ | Sam-I-Am: no one, that's the point. | 15:23 |
| annegentle_ | Sam-I-Am: we have our Sphinx redesign coming | 15:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | right | 15:23 |
| annegentle_ | Sam-I-Am: so the only output we need clouddocs-maven-plugin for is the API reference | 15:23 |
| annegentle_ | I just want to make sure the doc team knows we have a maintenance plan and the migration plan to Sphinx is what we | 15:24 |
| annegentle_ | we're planning on | 15:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | i'm trying to wrap my head around the sphinx thing | 15:25 |
| rromans | roughly what's the timeframe for that migration? | 15:25 |
| annegentle_ | rromans: the plan of record is in the blueprint | 15:25 |
| annegentle_ | rromans: just End User Guide and Admin User Guide will be migrated by May 2015 | 15:25 |
| rromans | annegentle_: tnx! | 15:25 |
| annegentle_ | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/docs-specs/specs/kilo/migrate-to-new-web-design.html | 15:26 |
| AJaeger | annegentle_, let's make that RST move a separate topic, plesae | 15:26 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: sure | 15:26 |
| annegentle_ | I dont' have anything else on clouddocs-maven-plugin | 15:26 |
| annegentle_ | Next topic for Doc tools is Sphinx new theme | 15:27 |
| annegentle_ | #topic Sphinx new theme | 15:27 |
| annegentle_ | The plan is to create a parallel theme to the "openstack" theme that exists in oslosphinx | 15:27 |
| annegentle_ | I'm working on that now | 15:27 |
| annegentle_ | it'll be named openstack-doc or some such | 15:27 |
| annegentle_ | To ensure we get output like this: | 15:28 |
| annegentle_ | #link openstack-homepage.bitballoon.com/docs/book | 15:28 |
| annegentle_ | huh. http | 15:28 |
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| annegentle_ | #link http://openstack-homepage.bitballoon.com/docs/book | 15:28 |
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| annegentle_ | I've just started the work based on the landing page | 15:28 |
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| AJaeger | thanks, annegentle_ ! | 15:28 |
| annegentle_ | Tom is talking to the Foundation about when/whether to announce a new landing page for docs or not | 15:29 |
| AJaeger | last comment by him was: Announce after elections | 15:29 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: ah, was just looking that up | 15:29 |
| annegentle_ | thanks | 15:30 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: do you want to talk about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142437/ -- the RST conversion? | 15:30 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle_, sure | 15:30 |
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| AJaeger | I started with a proof of concept in a separate directory to see how it looks | 15:30 |
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| AJaeger | Unfortunately I do not have as much spare time as I had hoped ;( | 15:31 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: what was the makefile for? | 15:31 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: I can help, just want to be sure I understand the approach | 15:31 |
| AJaeger | There're not enough good tools to do the conversation, so it's a basic conversation and then cleaning up afterwards - incl. adding content that was thrown away | 15:31 |
| AJaeger | The makefile can be deleted. | 15:31 |
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| annegentle_ | AJaeger: my approach was https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Migrate -- lots of manual cleanup | 15:31 |
| AJaeger | That was added by sphinx automatically, we don't need it anymore | 15:31 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: when I did the API docs | 15:31 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: basically, it's XHTML > RST using pando | 15:32 |
| annegentle_ | pando | 15:32 |
| annegentle_ | pandoc with a c! | 15:32 |
| AJaeger | annegentle_, wasn't aware of that page | 15:32 |
| AJaeger | Yeah, I used pandoc as well ;( | 15:32 |
| annegentle_ | :) | 15:32 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: well do you want me to take the same approach? | 15:32 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: it seems to work | 15:32 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: then we'll have to figure out what to do about duplicate files, reuse. | 15:33 |
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| AJaeger | let me read the page and then come back. I think it's the best approach. | 15:33 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: okay | 15:33 |
| AJaeger | Question is : Do we copy over to some "temp" directory (like my playground) in smaller steps, or do one large conversion? | 15:34 |
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| AJaeger | and we need to figure out translations | 15:34 |
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| annegentle_ | AJaeger: It's always nice to make smaller pieces put together but for the publish we'd need it all at once | 15:34 |
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| annegentle_ | AJaeger: yes | 15:34 |
| AJaeger | playground gets excluded from translations | 15:34 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: ah ok | 15:34 |
| AJaeger | WE can use playground for step-by-step and then do a final big switch at the end. | 15:34 |
| AJaeger | playground does not get published either ;) | 15:35 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: so I envision it's "Playground to get migrated content, then move to new folder for publish" | 15:35 |
| AJaeger | so, once we're happy, we can publish | 15:35 |
| AJaeger | annegentle_, exactly | 15:35 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: so should we just merge bits and pieces in playground? I'm good with that approach | 15:35 |
| AJaeger | annegentle_, that's what I'm proposing | 15:35 |
| zigo | I'm back home now. | 15:35 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: sounds good | 15:35 |
| annegentle_ | zigo: great timing | 15:35 |
| AJaeger | this allows us to work together on it. | 15:36 |
| annegentle_ | ok, to wrap up on doc tools | 15:36 |
| zigo | Sorry, but I planned today for the meeting at 2pm UTC as planned previously. | 15:36 |
| annegentle_ | #info playground is where we can all work on migrating content | 15:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | hi zigo | 15:36 |
| AJaeger | annegentle_, any directory starting with playground ;) | 15:36 |
| annegentle_ | #info merge in pieces to playground-, then publish end-user guide once oslosphinx theme is done | 15:36 |
| annegentle_ | Seems like we can do that this release | 15:36 |
| annegentle_ | Anything else for doc tools? Questions? | 15:37 |
| alexadamov | Hi Anne and Andreas, I'm from the Mirantis doc team and can help with RST conversion if needed at playground :) | 15:37 |
| AJaeger | alexadamov, great! | 15:37 |
| annegentle_ | alexadamov: excellent! Have you seen https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142437/? | 15:37 |
| AJaeger | how do we coordinate work? Should we have a wiki page where people sign up for each file? | 15:37 |
| alexadamov | have no permissions | 15:37 |
| annegentle_ | We could use https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Migrate | 15:37 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle_, whatever works ;) | 15:38 |
| alexadamov | Wiki looks good! | 15:38 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: ok cool | 15:38 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: alexadamov: thanks for the help! | 15:38 |
| KLevenstein | also interested, btw | 15:38 |
| annegentle_ | KLevenstein: excellent thanks | 15:38 |
| annegentle_ | Okay let's be sure to leave time for the install guide discussion | 15:39 |
| annegentle_ | #topic Install Guide | 15:39 |
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| annegentle_ | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-12-03-19.02.log.html | 15:39 |
| annegentle_ | I also link to last time we met | 15:39 |
| Sam-I-Am | i think so too. wheee. | 15:40 |
| annegentle_ | wow we even talked about ceph last time. whew. | 15:40 |
| annegentle_ | oh and you got into ansible too hehe | 15:40 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah. we covered just about everything except the debian situation. | 15:41 |
| annegentle_ | Okay so we also talked about how there's no Canonical doc site | 15:41 |
| annegentle_ | so the upstream install guide is all that there is for Ubuntu too | 15:41 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah. our guide is more or less the ubuntu guide. rh/suse are probably supplemental in some way, although a lot of people seem to like our guide. | 15:41 |
| annegentle_ | and we all agree, it's important to have ubuntu and debian in upstream | 15:41 |
| zigo | Same for Debian, no other docs out there but the official docs.openstack.org | 15:42 |
| annegentle_ | the fiddly bit is that it's maintenance | 15:42 |
| annegentle_ | so, zigo doesn't currently agree with the ubuntu simplified way | 15:42 |
| annegentle_ | and Sam-I-Am isn't amenable to maintenance of debconf | 15:42 |
| annegentle_ | is that accurate? | 15:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | imho, ubuntu and debian could be really similar and maintained mostly together... except the debconf problem. that and the pile of debian docs and packaging bugs that don't get fixed. | 15:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah | 15:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | right now the debian guide is unusable | 15:43 |
| annegentle_ | and I'm not making this a sumo wrestling match, just making sure we know who's where | 15:43 |
| annegentle_ | :) | 15:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | and thats just a bad thing | 15:43 |
| zigo | So far, I'm the only person who did the work on the Debconf side, and I don't see it as a big burden. | 15:43 |
| phil_h | My belief is they should be as similar as possible and if someone wants to maintain debconf stuff put it in an appendix | 15:43 |
| phil_h | that makes maintanence easier | 15:43 |
| annegentle_ | I do think in my head I have some "debconf solution" that involves a separate chapter | 15:43 |
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| zigo | Sam-I-Am: Could you tell which part is unuseable? | 15:43 |
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| annegentle_ | but is that okay with zigo? | 15:43 |
| annegentle_ | and yes, please talk thorugh the details | 15:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | zigo: if you want to be responsible for the debian install guide w/ debconf, thats fine. but as it stands, there's a pile of blocker bugs and no one has tested the install guide with juno. | 15:44 |
| annegentle_ | Sam-I-Am: can you pull a bug list easily? | 15:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | http://tinyurl.com/mpjsqpl | 15:44 |
| annegentle_ | let's size this | 15:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | thats a quick search | 15:44 |
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| zigo | Sam-I-Am: So far, I've been doing all the work, and I'm ok to do more. | 15:44 |
| zigo | The only issue is that I'm not sure how to pull a relevant bug list. | 15:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | in most cases i've either invalidated them because they're packaging bugs, or assigned them to zigo | 15:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | some are minor issues, but there's a few that completely break installations | 15:45 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: Nothing that I'm aware of ... :( | 15:45 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: I'll make sure to work on them asap. | 15:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | i cant verify these because i dont have a debian installation, but based on what i know about installing openstack, they're big issues. | 15:45 |
| zigo | (when I know) | 15:45 |
| AJaeger | zigo, when I assign a bug in launchpad to you, I don't remember seeing you followup on them. | 15:45 |
| annegentle_ | so invalid is when it's a packaging problem that docs can't fix? | 15:45 |
| AJaeger | Don't you get notified about the issues? | 15:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle_: thats generally what i do | 15:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle_: and then hope zigo can triage them elsewhere | 15:45 |
| zigo | How do I list all bugs assigned to me? | 15:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | zigo: advanced search, put you in as the assignee | 15:46 |
| zigo | Do I have the access rights to close bugs too? | 15:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | yes | 15:46 |
| annegentle_ | zigo: yes | 15:46 |
| zigo | k | 15:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | bugs are automatically closed with patches | 15:46 |
| zigo | I'll try then. | 15:46 |
| AJaeger | zigo, if not - join the documentation bug team | 15:46 |
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| annegentle_ | zigo: but is it realistic to ask you? Is there anyone else with interest? | 15:46 |
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| AJaeger | zigo, if you need help on how to administer bugs, just ask... | 15:47 |
| annegentle_ | zigo: I'd be intimidated by doc bugs in the double digits | 15:47 |
| annegentle_ | zigo: and want a back up person | 15:47 |
| AJaeger | annegentle_, +1 | 15:47 |
| zigo | FYI, I've been busy moving from China to France, which may explain my lower activity on the doc over the last months. | 15:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | if we're going to keep the debian-specific content, we need more debian people committed to testing and documentation | 15:47 |
| annegentle_ | Sam-I-Am: also, does eliminating debconf really fix most of these doc bugs? | 15:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | one person for docs and packaging isn't enough | 15:47 |
| zigo | I can ask to find someone else. | 15:48 |
| zigo | FYI, Mirantis is moving to Debian, so I'm sure I'll find help. | 15:48 |
| zigo | alexadamov: Could you help? | 15:48 |
| annegentle_ | zigo: yeah moving is time-sucking. I could swear, okay, affirm, there is someone else interested. | 15:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle_: most of the bugs i see with debian are debconf not setting something, or setting something wrong, etc. things we can fix by editing config files. | 15:48 |
| alexadamov | Yes for sure | 15:48 |
| annegentle_ | alexadamov: it was you! Maybe. I'm not sure. :) | 15:48 |
| zigo | Ok, then you got another Mirantis person to help! :) | 15:48 |
| annegentle_ | alexadamov: ok, great, thanks. | 15:48 |
| alexadamov | I'm the right person :) | 15:49 |
| annegentle_ | alexadamov: how much onboarding do you need for docs? Do you understand our conditionals? | 15:49 |
| annegentle_ | I'm happy to set up a meeting for training you on the install guide, not a problem alexadamov | 15:49 |
| Sam-I-Am | the other issue with debconf is not a technical one. its the fact that debconf removes a lot of the teaching aspect of the guide. | 15:49 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: I don't agree with that. | 15:49 |
| alexadamov | No yet. I need to get into | 15:49 |
| annegentle_ | Sam-I-Am: zigo yeah I think that's why I'd like to move debconf into an appendix, for the philosophical matchup | 15:50 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: If there's some missing information within the debconf chapter explaining what Debconf changes, then we can add some more there. | 15:50 |
| annegentle_ | zigo: and maybe it already is in a separate chapter | 15:50 |
| annegentle_ | Sam-I-Am: but we can't be TOO pendantic here. | 15:50 |
| annegentle_ | Sam-I-Am: I'm a pragmatist also | 15:50 |
| annegentle_ | Sam-I-Am: some people want the easy button | 15:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle_: without any openstack experience, easy ends in disaster | 15:51 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegentle_: sitting in #openstack has told me that | 15:51 |
| phil_h | I agree with Sam-I-AM | 15:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | people *really* need to understand all the gory details about openstack before automating it | 15:51 |
| annegentle_ | Sam-I-Am: phil_h sure, but we still have to be working in community on community docs. | 15:52 |
| phil_h | I think moving the debconf to an appendix is the best fix for this | 15:52 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: Again, if you want more explanation of what Debconf does, we can do that. | 15:52 |
| annegentle_ | phil_h: that's where I'm at too | 15:52 |
| phil_h | Ann - I agree, don't interpert this as not wanting to help | 15:52 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle_: i think it makes sense to eventually say "ok, lets do this with ansible now", but first-timers need to slog up the hill manually | 15:52 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: Mostly, it just edits things which users would do again, again and again, and avoids typoes. | 15:52 |
| annegentle_ | alexadamov: Let's set up a meeting time for me to show you the install guide ropes so to speak | 15:52 |
| annegentle_ | alexadamov: what time zone are you in? | 15:52 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: It doesn't mean you don't need to understand what you do. | 15:52 |
| alexadamov | UTC+2 | 15:52 |
| phil_h | I want us to move forward and not repeat mistakes of the past | 15:52 |
| annegentle_ | alexadamov: ok | 15:53 |
| Sam-I-Am | zigo: thats fine, as long as the documentation provides meta for what's actually going on... perhaps tells people which config files are being edited, etc. | 15:53 |
| alexadamov | thanks! | 15:53 |
| annegentle_ | phil_h: I want us to work in the community on docs where multiple opinions are allowed and tested. I think moving debconf to a separate chapter enables that | 15:53 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: Please open bugs for things you think are missing, and I'll edit them. | 15:53 |
| Sam-I-Am | unfortunately, typos are a right of passing :) | 15:53 |
| annegentle_ | #action alexadamov and annegentle to meet to understand Install Guide conditionals | 15:53 |
| phil_h | annegentle_: I agree | 15:53 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: As much as I know, there's enough in the debconf chapter to understand what happens. | 15:54 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: For example: http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/install-guide/install/apt-debian/content/debconf-dbconfig-common.html ... | 15:54 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: Do you think there's missing stuff over there? | 15:54 |
| zigo | That it's not clear what dbconfig-common does? | 15:54 |
| annegentle_ | zigo: do you have time to test the current install guide? | 15:54 |
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| annegentle_ | zigo: I think that's what's concerning to Sam-I-Am and us, is the lack of testing | 15:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | zigo: i'd have to look through it all again. first thing, though, if we're going to keep debconf... the guide needs testing. | 15:54 |
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| AJaeger | Isn't it more chapters like http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/install-guide/install/apt-debian/content/keystone-install.html ? | 15:54 |
| zigo | annegentle_: I will, yes, but I've been stuck with a libvirt issue over ehre, preventing me from starting instances on my Xen PV VM. | 15:55 |
| AJaeger | Where debconf automates everything - compared to other distros? | 15:55 |
| Sam-I-Am | AJaeger: yeah, and it doesn't really say whats going on | 15:55 |
| Sam-I-Am | like... why are we doing this | 15:55 |
| Sam-I-Am | compared to the ubuntu version: | 15:55 |
| annegentle_ | AJaeger: yes | 15:55 |
| Sam-I-Am | http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/install-guide/install/apt/content/keystone-install.html | 15:55 |
| Sam-I-Am | "here's what we're doing and why, and here's a look at the config file" | 15:56 |
| Sam-I-Am | debconf cant automate production environments | 15:56 |
| Sam-I-Am | people need to understand those config files | 15:56 |
| Sam-I-Am | so eventually you have to look at them | 15:56 |
| phil_h | SAM-I-AM is correct | 15:56 |
| annegentle_ | Sam-I-Am: or phil_h: who can do a patch that shows the separation? | 15:57 |
| annegentle_ | that'll let us all review | 15:57 |
| annegentle_ | by separation, I mean, making parallele. | 15:57 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle_: what do you mean shows the separation? | 15:57 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: I can look again at the debconf chapter and add what directives in the config files it's changing. | 15:57 |
| annegentle_ | which sounds quite the opposite :) | 15:57 |
| annegentle_ | phil_h: do you really have time to do it? | 15:57 |
| annegentle_ | I'd like a patch to look at | 15:57 |
| annegentle_ | zigo: I think it's better if we look at phil_h and Sam-I-Am's idea in a patch | 15:57 |
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| annegentle_ | zigo: and you spend your time testing when you get libvirt working | 15:57 |
| phil_h | Not sure about time availability | 15:58 |
| annegentle_ | wow, 3 minutes remaining. | 15:58 |
| annegentle_ | zigo: does that make sense? | 15:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | zigo: basically, prior to each debconf section, there would be a page saying what all is going on here and why... mention the config files edited, services touched, databases created, etc. | 15:58 |
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| annegentle_ | phil_h: heh. I knew it sounded too easy :) | 15:58 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: I fully agree with that. | 15:58 |
| phil_h | yes | 15:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle_: by patch, you mean disable debconf and make it work like ubuntu? | 15:58 |
| zigo | And I do want to spend time doing so. | 15:58 |
| zigo | alexadamov: Do you think you could work out patches to do that? | 15:58 |
| annegentle_ | honestly phil_h and Sam-I-Am seems like we need a patch -- yep Sam-I-Am, make the debian install guide look like ubuntu | 15:58 |
| zigo | alexadamov: It'd be a huge help if you do. | 15:58 |
| annegentle_ | or alexadamov could do it with help | 15:59 |
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| phil_h | SAM-I-AM - lets talk about what we can get done | 15:59 |
| annegentle_ | Okay one minute. | 15:59 |
| annegentle_ | How about I meet with alexadamov, we map out what a patch looks like | 15:59 |
| annegentle_ | then everyone can review | 15:59 |
| annegentle_ | the patch | 15:59 |
| AJaeger | annegentle_, go for it ;) | 15:59 |
| annegentle_ | yeah? | 15:59 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle_: is this the debian-like-ubuntu patch, or the fixes-the-debian-guide patch? | 16:00 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: There's something you don't understand, "make it work like ubuntu" doesn't work here, it's 2 different distro and 2 different set of packages. I started doing a separate distro install-guide because there was too many "Notes for debian users:" | 16:00 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: The differences are not only at the debconf vs non-debconf level. | 16:00 |
| annegentle_ | Cool | 16:00 |
| annegentle_ | zigo: Sam-I-Am: that's where a patch will help | 16:01 |
| Sam-I-Am | zigo: ubuntu and debian shouldnt be very different from a packaging perspective. | 16:01 |
| annegentle_ | us all see it | 16:01 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: For example, there's no plugin packages for Neutron in Debian, all is in neutron-common. There's only a single "nova-consoleproxy" package, nothing specific for noVNC, the Xen console or the Spice one. | 16:01 |
| annegentle_ | Okay sorry I have to end it | 16:01 |
| annegentle_ | Continue in #openstack-doc please :) | 16:01 |
| annegentle_ | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 14 16:01:37 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-01-14-15.01.html | 16:01 |
| annegentle_ | Thanks all for joining! | 16:01 |
| Sam-I-Am | aight, thanks for putting up with us :) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-01-14-15.01.txt | 16:01 |
| zigo | Sam-I-Am: Well, I could say the same thing for Suse and RedHat... | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-01-14-15.01.log.html | 16:01 |
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| alaski | #startmeeting nova_cells | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 14 17:00:18 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alaski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_cells' | 17:00 |
| vineetmenon | hi | 17:00 |
| bauzas | bonjour | 17:00 |
| bauzas | \o | 17:00 |
| alaski | o/ | 17:00 |
| melwitt | o/ | 17:00 |
| dansmith | o/ | 17:00 |
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| belmoreira | o/ | 17:00 |
| alaski | well, we have a simple agenda today | 17:01 |
| alaski | #topic scheduling | 17:01 |
| bauzas | link ? | 17:01 |
| bauzas | about the agenda | 17:01 |
| alaski | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NovaCellsv2#Agenda | 17:01 |
| * bauzas is too lazy... | 17:01 | |
| edleafe | o/ | 17:01 |
| alaski | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141486/ is the current review for cells scheduling | 17:02 |
| bauzas | thanks for having updated it | 17:02 |
| alaski | last week the consensus was that we would spend this week diving into scheduling | 17:02 |
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| alaski | so what are the current points of consternation or interest? | 17:03 |
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| vineetmenon | how is failure being handled in this scheme? | 17:04 |
| vineetmenon | i mean, are we in a position to discuss details? | 17:04 |
| bauzas | alaski: I'm basically +1 your spec | 17:04 |
| alaski | vineetmenon: some level of detail, yes | 17:04 |
| belmoreira | alaski: I like this proposal as well | 17:04 |
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| alaski | vineetmenon: but I would like to get the broad details discussed before getting too deep | 17:04 |
| bauzas | alaski: some details are a bit debatable that said | 17:04 |
| dansmith | agreed, I'm pretty much on board with that spec | 17:05 |
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| bauzas | alaski: I'm really concerned about how you plan to persist those request details (for not naming the devil by its name) | 17:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | alaski: I like the general idea, question about the cells v1 support though | 17:05 |
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| belmoreira | alaski: I have some questions that I'm commenting in the spec but I think we can discuss here as well | 17:05 |
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| johnthetubaguy | alaski: can we not just have the top level scheduler send an RPC to the child scheduler, rather than do a partial decision? | 17:06 |
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| dansmith | johnthetubaguy: that's really a detail for later, right? | 17:06 |
| dansmith | meaning, | 17:06 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: I really like the idea to have the cells API to manage the 2 calls rather than a top sched proxying children | 17:06 |
| alaski | johnthetubaguy: yes. but let me elaborate for a sec | 17:06 |
| dansmith | the concerning bit is handling the api contract, and what happens after the fact to get to a cell,host is something else | 17:06 |
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| alaski | johnthetubaguy: basically what dansmith said | 17:07 |
| dansmith | \o/ | 17:07 |
| alaski | heh | 17:07 |
| bauzas | dansmith: right | 17:07 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, thats fair | 17:07 |
| bauzas | that was indeed my 2nd question | 17:07 |
| bauzas | I recall the first one : how do you plan to persist the request | 17:07 |
| belmoreira | I like the proxy option... | 17:07 |
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| alaski | bauzas: essentially by persisting what is sent in the API request | 17:08 |
| alaski | bauzas: in a very basic manner for now | 17:08 |
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| dansmith | we need to generate them a uuid | 17:08 |
| dansmith | but otherwise, if we store what they sent us, plus the uuid, that's enough I think | 17:08 |
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| alaski | yep, that was my thinking as well | 17:08 |
| bauzas | alaski: so let me say the devil's name, don't you think that http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/kilo/approved/request-spec-object.html would be a dependency FWIW | 17:09 |
| bauzas | ? | 17:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | alaski: about the request_spec store, I guess the other way I remember dansmith mentioned was instread having the instance "cache" hold the data from the beginning? But thats a detail really, thats just the how its stored, I agree we need to store it | 17:09 |
| bauzas | provided that we persist that object of course | 17:09 |
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| alaski | bauzas: I'm not too concerned about whether we persist the object, or the input that allows the creation of the object | 17:10 |
| bauzas | alaski: well the history showed us that persistency is worth good | 17:11 |
| alaski | bauzas: I don't want to be blocked on the request spec object, but if it's in place I think it would be worth using | 17:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I am trying to think about any other APIs that return before creating an object in a specific cell, but I guess instance is the only one… | 17:11 |
| dansmith | bauzas: persistency? :P | 17:11 |
| dansmith | instance is the big one for sure | 17:11 |
| bauzas | dansmith: aren't we all French, someone said last week in the news ? :) | 17:11 |
| dansmith | they said persistency? awesome | 17:11 |
| * bauzas reading a dictionary now | 17:12 | |
| alaski | johnthetubaguy: there might be more, but we'll tackle them as they come up | 17:12 |
| bauzas | eh I was close, only 2 letters to change | 17:12 |
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| bauzas | alaski: agreed on the plan, we can maybe iterate on what you need first, and integrate with ReqSpec while it comes | 17:13 |
| alaski | johnthetubaguy: where it's stored is a detail, but what I like about using a separate table for the persistance right now is since the data is short lived we can iterate that store over time without worrying too much about compatibility/versioning | 17:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | alaski: agreed, I was just wondering if going the tasks route will help give us a more general solution than storing "build_request", but I am probably thinking too deep | 17:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | alaski: yeah, agreed, too deep | 17:13 |
| bauzas | alaski: and FYI https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/request-spec-object,n,z is implemented on the object side | 17:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | I agree with having to store "the request" for the reasons you state | 17:13 |
| alaski | bauzas: cool, I'll look into it | 17:14 |
| bauzas | sounds like we're in violent agreement then ? | 17:14 |
| alaski | johnthetubaguy: cool | 17:14 |
| alaski | bauzas: with the broak strokes at least | 17:14 |
| alaski | s/broak/broad/ | 17:14 |
| bauzas | alaski: do your homework, create a table and then we'll see how to turn up to the object later on | 17:14 |
| bauzas | alaski: of course, you still need to iterate your spec by adding details on the *persistance* | 17:15 |
| dansmith | yeah, needs fleshing out | 17:15 |
| alaski | yeah. so realistically I think this is multiple specs | 17:15 |
| bauzas | alaski: +1 | 17:16 |
| bauzas | we need to split out things | 17:16 |
| bauzas | there is also some scheduling homework | 17:16 |
| alaski | I can break this out now that there's general agreement, but I'm not sure what we can get moving during the freeze | 17:16 |
| alaski | but I'll push on what I can | 17:16 |
| bauzas | alaski: are you planning to implement something for Kilo ? | 17:16 |
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| alaski | bauzas: yes | 17:17 |
| bauzas | alaski: I guess then the approved specs, right ? | 17:17 |
| alaski | there's already approved specs which need implementations | 17:17 |
| alaski | and I would like to continue into scheduling if we get to that point | 17:17 |
| bauzas | alaski: hence my point, that's not really a problem to rewrite those scheduler specs, as it's not planned for Kilo | 17:17 |
| alaski | how that's done is an open question right now | 17:17 |
| bauzas | alaski: yeah, but we can work on drafts and merge on L | 17:18 |
| bauzas | alaski: I can see some point where the scheduler should serve CellsV2 as destinations | 17:18 |
| mvineetmenon | the approved specs are for cell-instance-mapping and scheduler, right | 17:18 |
| mvineetmenon | what are you planning to implement in those? | 17:18 |
| bauzas | I mean that the scheduler should provide cells as a result | 17:18 |
| alaski | mvineetmenon: not scheduling | 17:18 |
| bauzas | well, I think the extra DB thing is already a huge thing :) | 17:19 |
| alaski | bauzas: sure, let's focus on what's approved and iterate on this in the mean time | 17:19 |
| bauzas | alaski: because you need to cable all the bits for creating a 2nd DB | 17:19 |
| alaski | are there more specifics on scheduling that anyone would like to dive into now? | 17:19 |
| bauzas | alaski: did you work on a POC for this btw. ? | 17:19 |
| alaski | bauzas: I have not | 17:20 |
| bauzas | alaski: again, I think that for scheduling, we need to split this spec into specific items | 17:20 |
| bauzas | and see what's needed to change in the scheduler | 17:20 |
| bauzas | the current proposal is vague about the capability of providing cells | 17:20 |
| bauzas | do you plan to merge the Cells V1 scheduler code into the mainstream one ? | 17:20 |
| bauzas | alaski: ^ | 17:20 |
| mvineetmenon | .join ##barc-cern-openstack | 17:21 |
| alaski | bauzas: not exactly | 17:21 |
| bauzas | alaski: cool | 17:21 |
| belmoreira | bauzas: how the scheduler will handle the case of the 2 layer approach? | 17:21 |
| bauzas | belmoreira: I was thinking of extending the Scheduler API | 17:21 |
| bauzas | by adding a new method | 17:22 |
| belmoreira | but will the top scheduler be aware of everything anyway? | 17:22 |
| alaski | bauzas: there are some filters and weighers for cells that the scheduler should be able to handle. We'll need to determine the gaps that need to be filled so that can happen | 17:22 |
| bauzas | that would be the safiest approach, as many bps are planning to work on select_dest() | 17:22 |
| bauzas | alaski: agreed, we need to jump into the details | 17:22 |
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| bauzas | alaski: and I have to admit I have to dig into the Cells V1 scheduler code, my knowledge being vague on it | 17:23 |
| belmoreira | bauzas: but one of the goals of cells if to split things... | 17:23 |
| bauzas | belmoreira: I don't get your point ? | 17:23 |
| alaski | bauzas: it's quite similar to the scheduler in it's manner of operation, but it schedules primarily by flavor availability | 17:23 |
| bauzas | alaski: ack | 17:24 |
| dansmith | I thought the plan was to make the scheduling flexible enough to use single-level scheduling by default, but allow 2-level if there was some reason | 17:24 |
| dansmith | like, a filter that could punt to a second scheduler | 17:24 |
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| vineetmenon | ***scalalibity*** ? | 17:24 |
| dansmith | because with a caching scheduler, I don't really understand why two levels are needed | 17:24 |
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| belmoreira | dansmith: in that case the first schedule will only have limited light info, right? | 17:24 |
| dansmith | belmoreira: no, I don't think so, but it may make lightweight decisions | 17:25 |
| belmoreira | dansmith: for example we have filters enabled in only some cells | 17:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | dansmith: I think we should be able to pick from all hosts from all cells in one go, and just tell the caller which cell it was (at least until some level of scale) | 17:25 |
| dansmith | johnthetubaguy: that's what I'd like, yeah | 17:26 |
| vineetmenon | dansmith: so, the first scheduler is powerful enough to select a cell, host tuple? | 17:26 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: +1 | 17:26 |
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| dansmith | vineetmenon: yeah | 17:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | we would need some extra stuff to filter on cells properties, but that just works | 17:26 |
| melwitt | johnthetubaguy: +1 | 17:26 |
| bauzas | dansmith: that's possible, provided we define a clear abstraction | 17:26 |
| bauzas | dansmith: at the moment, the mainstream scheduler is host-centric | 17:27 |
| * vineetmenon is thinking about scalability issues with thousands of nodes | 17:27 | |
| johnthetubaguy | the problem is when the caching scheduler's DB call takes so long, its doing nothing else, but we can hopefully ignore that case | 17:27 |
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| dansmith | well, I think a cell-aware scheduler is just one that has info about cells and extra filters to make cell-based decisions early in the stack and then host-based decisions once you select a cell | 17:27 |
| melwitt | I like dansmith's idea of the flexibility to go to two-level later on | 17:27 |
| dansmith | right, and so once that's properly abstracted, | 17:27 |
| alaski | bauzas: agreed. no matter the physical setup of the scheduler I think it logically needs to operate on cells and hosts | 17:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | vineetmenon: there were some plans to use kafka as the data store to get incremental updates, a-la no-db-scheduler plan from a few releases back, but I am ignoring that as a detail | 17:28 |
| dansmith | we should have the ability for a filter to return "contact scheduler at 1.2.3.4 to continue" | 17:28 |
| dansmith | and just let it punt to the next one | 17:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | alaski: I think its a list of hosts, and cell is a property of the host, but its the same difference really | 17:28 |
| dansmith | that way if you *want* to have lots of schedulers, with different configs, you can write filters such that you'll proceed from top to mid to bottom scheduler before a decision is made | 17:28 |
| melwitt | +1 | 17:28 |
| alaski | johnthetubaguy: I disagree, because cells have capabilities on their own with no regards to the hosts | 17:29 |
| bauzas | dansmith: but you mean that a filter would issue a call to a 2nd scheduler ? | 17:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | alaski: thats the same as aggregates today though | 17:29 |
| dansmith | bauzas: or return some result that says "stop what you're doing, pass what you have to $scheduler2 and let it proceed" | 17:29 |
| belmoreira | alaski: +1 | 17:29 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: and that's why we're working on changing how we access that aggregate info | 17:29 |
| dansmith | bauzas: whether that is a result to the client and the client re-queries, or we proxy is an open question, but I don't think it matters much | 17:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | alaski: we can just make those properties of every cell, and it flattens things, and filters/weight just pick which they want to act on | 17:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | but its a detail, and it doesn't change much | 17:30 |
| dansmith | johnthetubaguy: right, aggregates seem like the way you handle such things to me | 17:30 |
| bauzas | dansmith: interesting, I just need to think about that | 17:30 |
| dansmith | johnthetubaguy: and keep a host-centric scheduler | 17:30 |
| edleafe | bauzas: yeah, this sounds like a subset of aggregates | 17:30 |
| bauzas | dansmith: that sounds like sharding | 17:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | dansmith: we can just map cells to aggregates for "v1" support I guess | 17:30 |
| dansmith | johnthetubaguy: yeah | 17:30 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: indeed | 17:30 |
| bauzas | anyway, we should put our thoughts in a spec :) | 17:31 |
| belmoreira | johnthetubaguy: humm | 17:31 |
| alaski | belmoreira: in answer to your concern, the ability to filter differently for different cells should remain if you need it, it would just be handled in the scheduler rather than in nova | 17:31 |
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| alaski | dansmith: I'm very much in agreement with your statement of things, but not quite sure what exactly host-centric means yet | 17:32 |
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| bauzas | belmoreira: +1 with alaski, that's just a matter of configurating nova-scheduler, not nova-api | 17:32 |
| dansmith | alaski: meaning that the scheduler's goal is to select a host, not to select a cell | 17:32 |
| alaski | dansmith: gotcha, then yeah I'm on the same page | 17:32 |
| edleafe | dansmith: +1 | 17:33 |
| bauzas | alaski: btw. http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/kilo/approved/isolate-scheduler-db-aggregates.html will be the new way for the scheduler to work with aggregates | 17:33 |
| bauzas | that sounds feasible to map the design but with cells | 17:34 |
| alaski | so everyone is good with taking this and splitting out some detailed specs to continue the discussion on? | 17:34 |
| bauzas | +1 | 17:34 |
| alaski | bauzas: thanks, will take a look | 17:34 |
| dansmith | yup | 17:34 |
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| alaski | great, moving on then | 17:34 |
| edleafe | yes | 17:34 |
| alaski | #topic open discussion | 17:34 |
| bauzas | I was having an action from last week | 17:35 |
| dansmith | move to adjourn? :) | 17:35 |
| dansmith | damn. | 17:35 |
| bauzas | eh | 17:35 |
| alaski | dansmith: hah | 17:35 |
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| alaski | bauzas: any update? | 17:35 |
| bauzas | I'll be very brief, I promise :) | 17:35 |
| bauzas | so, 73 tests failing now | 17:36 |
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| bauzas | so I'm about to add a new job like https://github.com/openstack-infra/project-config/blob/f98caac794f6d1327cb7565c446c026cc951a873/jenkins/jobs/devstack-gate.yaml#L816-L829 by adding those 73 tests | 17:36 |
| vineetmenon | anyone figured out the reason for new year +30 bonanza? | 17:37 |
| bauzas | everybody agrees ? | 17:37 |
| vineetmenon | +1 | 17:37 |
| bauzas | and I won't touch the job above | 17:37 |
| bauzas | alaski: you ok ? | 17:38 |
| alaski | bauzas: I like that. If we can get that to voting in a reasonable time it will prevent backslides | 17:38 |
| bauzas | alaski: ok, will do | 17:38 |
| bauzas | that's it | 17:38 |
| alaski | vineetmenon: I have not. it's a TODO for me that I haven't done yet | 17:38 |
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| alaski | bauzas: thanks | 17:39 |
| alaski | I would like to point out https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145922/ | 17:39 |
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| alaski | and that's it from me | 17:39 |
| alaski | anything else? | 17:39 |
| belmoreira | alaski: we would like to contribute in the implementation | 17:39 |
| vineetmenon | belmoreira: +1 | 17:40 |
| alaski | belmoreira: great. ping me outside of the meeting and we can discuss that | 17:40 |
| belmoreira | alaski: ok | 17:40 |
| alaski | dansmith: anything from you? :) | 17:41 |
| dansmith | move to adjourn :) | 17:41 |
| alaski | seconded | 17:41 |
| bauzas | sld | 17:42 |
| bauzas | sold | 17:42 |
| alaski | motion passes | 17:42 |
| alaski | thanks everyone! | 17:42 |
| alaski | #endmeeting | 17:42 |
| bauzas | thanks | 17:42 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 14 17:42:26 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2015/nova_cells.2015-01-14-17.00.html | 17:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2015/nova_cells.2015-01-14-17.00.txt | 17:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2015/nova_cells.2015-01-14-17.00.log.html | 17:42 |
| belmoreira | thanks | 17:42 |
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| vineetmenon | bye | 17:43 |
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| mrunge | #startmeeting Horizon | 20:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 14 20:00:28 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mrunge. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 20:00 |
| mrunge | hello there | 20:00 |
| ericpeterson | hello | 20:00 |
| rbertram | hi | 20:00 |
| rhagarty | hello | 20:00 |
| jgravel | hi | 20:00 |
| gary-smith | hello | 20:01 |
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| crobertsrh | hello/ | 20:01 |
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| bradjones | o/ | 20:01 |
| mrunge | #chair mrunge david-lyle_ | 20:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: david-lyle_ mrunge | 20:01 |
| mrunge | :D | 20:01 |
| clu_ | hi | 20:01 |
| mrunge | David will show up in a few mins | 20:01 |
| TravT | o/ | 20:01 |
| mrunge | we don't have an agenda for today | 20:02 |
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| gary-smith | is it a hidden agenda? :-) | 20:02 |
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| mrunge | so, if I remember right, we did not finish last weeks meeting | 20:03 |
| sambetts | o/ | 20:03 |
| mrunge | I'll leave announcements for David, when he'll show up | 20:04 |
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| mrunge | #topic Angular work blockers | 20:04 |
| mrunge | Richard Jones, are you there, by any chance? | 20:05 |
| mrunge | or tqtran ? | 20:05 |
| TravT | well, we got the version upgrade in as well as angular-bootstrap | 20:05 |
| tqtran | actually, i have something i wanted to bring up, just to gauge community interest | 20:05 |
| tqtran | so kelly from HP have been working on the new angular table stuff | 20:06 |
| tqtran | its available here: https://github.com/ongk/responsive-smart-table | 20:06 |
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| tqtran | just wanted to know if people are generally ok with the newer tables looking a bit different | 20:06 |
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| mrunge | tqtran, thanks for sharing! | 20:07 |
| david-lyle_ | different how? | 20:07 |
| tqtran | its similar to what piet has shown on envision | 20:07 |
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| tqtran | well, similar is the wrong word, its basically the implementation of what piet showed | 20:07 |
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| TravT | So, you can see the look and feel in the launch instance mocks. | 20:07 |
| TravT | http://invis.io/SG1YAG2WC | 20:08 |
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| tqtran | ok silence means we're in the green? haha | 20:09 |
| rbertram | My general answer is I like it, though I'm still thinking about some of the details. I am involved in discussions on this. | 20:09 |
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| rbertram | The question may be: can we break consistency with the existing tables for Kilo? | 20:10 |
| gary-smith | Am I seeing correctly that all row actions are hidden inside of the + ? | 20:10 |
| TravT | gary-smith: | 20:10 |
| TravT | no | 20:10 |
| mrunge | #chair mrunge david-lyle david-lyle_ | 20:10 |
| openstack | Current chairs: david-lyle david-lyle_ mrunge | 20:10 |
| TravT | that is actually specific to launch instance | 20:10 |
| david-lyle_ | #chair david-lyle | 20:10 |
| Piet | Did I hear my name? | 20:10 |
| openstack | Current chairs: david-lyle david-lyle_ mrunge | 20:10 |
| TravT | it is how you select one. This was the result of several weeks of usability testing | 20:10 |
| tqtran | gary-smith: i high recommend that you download the repo above, it has several examples | 20:11 |
| gary-smith | I am looking at the example | 20:11 |
| david-lyle | tqtran: can you repost the link for invision? | 20:11 |
| david-lyle | on real screen now | 20:11 |
| tqtran | the one in the invision is a bit different | 20:11 |
| tqtran | piet: do you have a link to the one kelly implemented? | 20:12 |
| david-lyle | oops, that was TravT | 20:12 |
| tqtran | http://invis.io/SG1YAG2WC | 20:12 |
| TravT | ok, so that is launch instance | 20:12 |
| Piet | Final Design for Launch Instance http://invis.io/DW1XZIUH2 | 20:12 |
| TravT | here is an alternate one that shows actions in more of a standard listing table (not a selection table) | 20:13 |
| TravT | http://invis.io/YA1KV4VTP | 20:13 |
| * david-lyle munging topics | 20:13 | |
| TravT | Piet: if there is a newer one, please share. | 20:13 |
| robcresswell | Why hide the first row action? Normally the first is shown, usually edit. Seems that would be faster, less clicks, than hiding them all. | 20:13 |
| tqtran | yes, the latest one TravT showed is what kelly implemented | 20:13 |
| Piet | Just shared most recent Launch Instance - http://invis.io/DW1XZIUH2 | 20:13 |
| david-lyle | in that case is create flavor the only table action? | 20:14 |
| TravT | david-lyle: which one are you referencing? | 20:14 |
| tqtran | https://openstack.invisionapp.com/share/YA1KV4VTP#/screens | 20:15 |
| tqtran | im sure we can add more batch actions as needed, its just a mock up | 20:15 |
| david-lyle | tqtran: my concern is layout | 20:16 |
| TravT | robcroswell: i think you are referencing the launch instance mocks. In that one, if you click the + button, it selects it and pops it to the selected ones. | 20:16 |
| david-lyle | I've talked to Piet and he and seeing examples has convinced me that we can put filtering and actions on different lines | 20:17 |
| david-lyle | allowing us to expose more actoins | 20:17 |
| TravT | robcrosswell: this one may make it more obvious how that one works: https://openstack.invisionapp.com/share/SG1YAG2WC#/screens/55177821?maintainScrollPosition=false | 20:17 |
| tqtran | understood, basically, the question is: are we ok with moving new angular table in this direction? theres still time for us to determine the actual layout, but we can begin work down this road | 20:17 |
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| rbertram | tqtran: you want us to focus on the table only, not the overal context? | 20:18 |
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| tqtran | yes just focus on the table styling primarily | 20:18 |
| david-lyle | we're changing technology stack, there isn't a better time to change look and feel | 20:18 |
| TravT | david-lyle: +1 | 20:18 |
| david-lyle | if we can improve usability, we should | 20:19 |
| tqtran | ok perfect, thats all i needed to hear | 20:19 |
| david-lyle | additionally forcing new tools to look like old is a waste of time IMO | 20:19 |
| mrunge | yes! | 20:19 |
| wchrisj | david-lyle: +1 | 20:19 |
| mrunge | and we were changing that anyways | 20:19 |
| david-lyle | yes | 20:19 |
| david-lyle | So yeah, move forward | 20:20 |
| rbertram | I agree. So Kilo will have some tables of the old style that have not been converted yet, right? | 20:20 |
| david-lyle | I want to point out for launch instance | 20:20 |
| david-lyle | rbertram: yes, but I'm thinking there won't be more than 1 or two in the new format | 20:21 |
| david-lyle | and those would likely be in the wizard | 20:21 |
| rbertram | david-lyle: good, making sure we have right expectation | 20:21 |
| rbertram | (foreseeing concerns raised about consistency at end of kilo) | 20:21 |
| david-lyle | rbertram: it's never been a concern before ;) | 20:22 |
| rbertram | ah, ok | 20:22 |
| david-lyle | back to launch | 20:22 |
| david-lyle | we need to close on the design | 20:22 |
| david-lyle | and move the bp to approved | 20:22 |
| TravT | yes, this will be very helpful. today we had a review with Piet on the in progress styling. | 20:23 |
| david-lyle | unless there is amazing concerns raised in the next day or two, I'm going to move to approved | 20:23 |
| Piet | Agreed | 20:23 |
| TravT | btw, for reference: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/launch-instance-redesign | 20:23 |
| Piet | Some of the questions I'm seeing are around implementation of the design. Fully anticipate some compromises due to constraints | 20:24 |
| david-lyle | I feel it's a strong improvement and we can move incrementally from there if necessary | 20:24 |
| david-lyle | Piet: that's always a concern when doing design divorced from implementation | 20:25 |
| rbertram | TravT & Piet: is there a central place for input on the new table design? separate from the contexts of the tables. | 20:25 |
| david-lyle | there will be compromises to make | 20:25 |
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| Piet | Just as an FYI, I'm trying to set the high level vision for the design. Try to motivate the group to see the where we can go... | 20:26 |
| tqtran | when we're done discussing this, i do have another topic to bring up, this one concerns consolidating javascripts. | 20:26 |
| TravT | rbertram: this project for now: http://invis.io/YA1KV4VTP | 20:26 |
| rbertram | TravT: thx | 20:27 |
| TravT | I also would like to talk about the base REST API patch, even if r1chardj0n3s isn't here | 20:27 |
| tqtran | you can go first TravT | 20:27 |
| TravT | thx. | 20:27 |
| Piet | Real quick thanks to all of you that helped with the UX design process! | 20:27 |
| TravT | so, we have a lot of dependencies between the launch instance and table designs. | 20:28 |
| TravT | one of them is at least getting the base rest API utility patch landed | 20:28 |
| TravT | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136676 | 20:28 |
| TravT | current debate seems to be a final question on validation with lhcheng and david-lyle | 20:28 |
| david-lyle | TravT: I talked to Richard about that, I'm trying to get back to it | 20:28 |
| TravT | i put up a potential compromise solution, so would like feedback on that. | 20:28 |
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| TravT | david-lyle: okay. | 20:29 |
| TravT | then we can focus more on the actual API's and hopefully iterate there | 20:30 |
| david-lyle | I think his point is valid that out interactions with the clients could be made consistent, contracts with the client wrappers | 20:30 |
| david-lyle | I'll try to hit again today | 20:30 |
| TravT | ok. thanks | 20:30 |
| TravT | tqtran: over to you. | 20:30 |
| tqtran | thanks TravT | 20:31 |
| tqtran | so basically, we're going to end up with angular code in openstack_dashboard | 20:31 |
| tqtran | they belong there because its specific to each panel | 20:31 |
| tqtran | so user identity will have its own js controller file, etc... | 20:31 |
| tqtran | the way we have it right now, all of your js is in horizon | 20:32 |
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| tqtran | *our js | 20:32 |
| tqtran | the idea was that we only incorporate js libs in horizon, and for panel specific js, we have it in openstack_dashboard | 20:32 |
| tqtran | i have tried pulling most things from horizon, but that doesnt work because we have selenium tests using those js in horizon | 20:33 |
| tqtran | so we're actually stuck with putting most of our legacy js files in horizon | 20:33 |
| tqtran | but for the new angular js stuff, i propose that we start moving them to openstack_dashboard, wanted to get a consensus on this | 20:34 |
| rbertram | tqtran: what about general directives & even controllers that are used in multiple panels? still in openstack_dashboard? | 20:34 |
| mrunge | tqtran, but, if someone would use horizon as framework, he would re-use that js code anyways? | 20:34 |
| tqtran | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141457/ here is the patch | 20:34 |
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| tqtran | mrunge: its possible, but the js code is very specific to each panel | 20:35 |
| tqtran | mrunge: its like arguing that our panel code in python today can be reuse as well | 20:35 |
| mrunge | darn, I hoped, it would be a bit more maintainable | 20:35 |
| TravT | well, some things still will be in horizon | 20:35 |
| mattfarina | tqtran putting the angular code that's specific to a panel in openstack_dashboard makes sense. | 20:36 |
| tqtran | mrunge: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133767/25/horizon/static/horizon/js/angular/dashboards/hz.identity.users.js here is an example of a controller in js specifically for the users panel | 20:36 |
| tqtran | rbertram, TravT: yes, reusable things like wizard, tables, will still stay in horizon | 20:36 |
| david-lyle | tqtran: there will be wizard framework and step content | 20:36 |
| mrunge | tqtran, and why the heck can't we put that to openstack_dashboard? | 20:36 |
| david-lyle | those two could be logically split horizon and openstack_dashboard | 20:37 |
| tqtran | mrunge: we could, i wouldnt be oppose to that either | 20:37 |
| david-lyle | I think mrunge is referring to those common base wdigets | 20:37 |
| mrunge | david-lyle, yes and no | 20:37 |
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| david-lyle | specific panel content and steps certainly lives in openstack_dashboard, as it does today | 20:37 |
| mrunge | I would like to have stuff separated as much as possible | 20:38 |
| mrunge | this makes it easier to maintain it | 20:38 |
| david-lyle | I could see, more things in openstack_dashboard like usage | 20:38 |
| david-lyle | things used in multiple views | 20:39 |
| tqtran | mrunge: just to clarify, so you're saying that you like it better if the reusable JS components live in horizon, and the panel-specific JS code lives in dashboard? | 20:40 |
| mrunge | tqtran, I'd say: yes | 20:41 |
| tqtran | mrunge: ok, then i guess we're all pretty much in agreement | 20:41 |
| mrunge | :D | 20:41 |
| tqtran | one last thing, does it make sense to combine _conf and _scripts? | 20:41 |
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| mrunge | tqtran, nope. | 20:42 |
| tqtran | i think it makes its easier to have all of our js dependencies in one place | 20:42 |
| mrunge | tqtran, I added a comment to that patch | 20:42 |
| tqtran | not sure i understand why we need 2 | 20:42 |
| mrunge | easier to read? | 20:42 |
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| mrunge | smaller files for a dedicated reason rather than a large file with everything mixed up? | 20:43 |
| tqtran | yes, but its very confusing for newer developers. we're generally use to having a single index.html where all of our scripts are loaded | 20:43 |
| tqtran | the only thing in there are script tags | 20:43 |
| mrunge | new developers are python developers. | 20:43 |
| tqtran | i would argue that its easier to read when all scripts are in one place | 20:43 |
| mrunge | so, almost *everything* is new | 20:43 |
| mrunge | I'm not a friend of huge spaghetti-like files | 20:44 |
| rhagarty | hello | 20:44 |
| tqtran | the way we have it right now, we have import statements for angular modules in two different places | 20:45 |
| tqtran | its very confusing even to me where i should put my js script | 20:45 |
| david-lyle | I need to look at the content of each again, but unless they serve different purposes, I'm not sure I see the need for a split | 20:46 |
| david-lyle | is one in horizon and one in openstack_dashboard? | 20:46 |
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| tqtran | none in openstack atm | 20:46 |
| mrunge | david-lyle, it's this patch here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141457/ | 20:46 |
| tqtran | all the js scripts are in horizon | 20:46 |
| mrunge | and I was arguing: no need to move all stuff from one file to another | 20:47 |
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| david-lyle | I know I looked at this before, trying to resync | 20:47 |
| tqtran | yes, i also introduced the idea in the ML | 20:47 |
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| david-lyle | tqtran: I recall | 20:49 |
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| david-lyle | ok, I have to look more | 20:51 |
| tqtran | ok, just wanted to bring it up so people are aware. im open to feedback and if there is a good reason, im all ears. | 20:52 |
| gugl2 | tqtran, TravT question if I have a change which has some js code...I am required to use angularjs now? | 20:52 |
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| TravT | Actually, we are looking to move to COBOL. | 20:52 |
| mrunge | TravT, +1 | 20:53 |
| tqtran | gugl2: depends on the change, is it to legacy js code? if it is, then just stick with jquery. but the newer stuff should be angular. | 20:53 |
| TravT | we are looking at angular for new development and tqtran is working on updating some older things to angular | 20:53 |
| tqtran | TravT: lol COBOL yes, my favorite | 20:53 |
| rbertram | travt: bet you have an angboard alternative called cobboard | 20:53 |
| gugl2 | tqtran, ok, thanks | 20:53 |
| TravT | lol | 20:53 |
| tqtran | rbertram: lol | 20:53 |
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| mrunge | we had a patch set celebrating it's first birthday. | 20:54 |
| mrunge | could we get another core to approve https://review.openstack.org/#/c/65793/ ? | 20:54 |
| tqtran | gugl2: http://campus.codeschool.com/courses/shaping-up-with-angular-js/intro interactive tutorial if you're interested | 20:54 |
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| gugl2 | tqtran, sounds good, thanks. | 20:55 |
| rbertram | If we are in that part of the meeting - Serial Console https://review.openstack.org/#/c/144659/ is ready for review. But the BP has not gotten any attention. | 20:55 |
| tqtran | mrunge: sounds like you should bug akihiro | 20:55 |
| rbertram | Does BP have to be approved for patch to merge? | 20:55 |
| mrunge | tqtran, yes, but he's not here at the moment | 20:56 |
| mrunge | rbertram, I thought it was already approved? | 20:56 |
| david-lyle | rbertram: it should be, but it doesn't always happen that way | 20:56 |
| rbertram | :-) | 20:56 |
| bradjones | Quick update on Curvature topology BP, would really appreciate some UX feedback https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141078/ need to clean up code this afternoon and will remove the -1 workflow tomorrow | 20:57 |
| mrunge | rbertram, I mean, the bp should already have been approved? | 20:57 |
| rbertram | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/serial-console - marked as "needs approval" | 20:58 |
| TravT | bradjones: i do have a question. will that topology be easy to include in a number of pages? | 20:58 |
| david-lyle | devlaps: around? | 20:58 |
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| bradjones | TravT: yeah it should be as long as the page calls the init function and the json is rendered I don't see why not | 20:59 |
| TravT | bradjones: great, because there is some interest in being able to bring it up within context on a few places. | 21:00 |
| TravT | e.g. instance details | 21:00 |
| david-lyle | time's up. Thanks mrunge for leading. Have a great week and I should back in a more full capacity late next week. Thanks everyone. | 21:00 |
| bradjones | TravT: awesome that sounds good | 21:00 |
| david-lyle | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 14 21:00:58 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2015/horizon.2015-01-14-20.00.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2015/horizon.2015-01-14-20.00.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2015/horizon.2015-01-14-20.00.log.html | 21:01 |
| TravT | thank you! | 21:01 |
| mrunge | thanks everyone | 21:01 |
| bradjones | thanks | 21:01 |
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