Wednesday, 2016-03-09

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anil_raowe'll start in a few minutes. :)06:27
reedipsure ..06:27
anil_rao#startmeeting taas06:29
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar  9 06:29:48 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anil_rao. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.06:29
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: taas)"06:29
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'taas'06:29
anil_raoLet's get started06:31
fawadkhaliqhi guys06:31
anil_rao#topic Spec Discussion06:31
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reedipI sent an email yesterday on the Openstack-dev ML06:32
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reedipI basically compared the Juno Spec with the current one and found some of the concerns which were raised by the reviewers in the Juno spec may not have been resolved in the current spec06:33
reedipthis was one of the action items I had to do last week ( Thursday ) , but other factors made me lazy06:33
reedipso was able to put it up yesterday06:34
anil_raoreedip: Do you want to go over this list items06:34
reedipanil_rao : I think the mail should be self-explanatory ... otherwise it might take a lot of time06:34
reedipanil_rao: lets discuss it at the end, so that other points are covered first ( thats my take)06:35
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anil_raoSoichi said in an email that he would like to discuss the Dashboard review comments next week. He needs some time to go over them and consider options06:36
reedipyes, that is I guess the second point of today's discussion. I updated the Agenda, but found Soichi's email later...06:37
anil_raoLet's move on. We can discuss the few bugs and then come back to the Spec06:37
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anil_raoreedip: Do you want to say something about the list bugs06:38
reedipI lost track of it a bit, but I think its mainly related to the TaaS requirements06:39
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reedipBasically if tap-service/tap-flow or other Neutron CLIs which anil_rao mentioned in the below link06:39
reedipIf they do not have any resources06:40
reedipor in other words, if no tap-service/tap flow exists when tap-service-list/tap-flow-list is executed06:41
reedipthen due to a python-cliff bug06:42
openstackLaunchpad bug 1539770 in cliff "Empty set causing out of range error" [Undecided,Fix released] - Assigned to Doug Hellmann (doug-hellmann)06:42
reedipthe issue occurs06:42
reedipThis means we need to update the cliff version to 2.0.006:43
reedipif the error occurs06:43
reedipyamamoto_ : I think we need to change TaaS requirements for this, right?06:43
yamamoto_cliff is in python-neutronclient's requirements, not ours.06:44
yamamoto_the problem is not taas specific right?06:44
anil_raoI have seen this problem with other neutron client list commands too, so it is not TaaS specific.06:45
reedipyup, its not taas related directly06:45
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reedipanil_rao: can you take the latest neutronclient branch?06:45
anil_raoSee the few examples at the bottom of my email (in the above link)06:45
reedipor better "pip install -e . " may solve the problem in your system06:45
reedipwhen executed in the python-neutronclient cloned code06:46
anil_raoI will be redoing my DevStack setup tomorrow (toasted it today due to a TaaS bug) so I can take in the new neutron client.06:46
reediplatest NeutronClient has the following Requirements06:46
reedipcliff!=1.16.0,!=1.17.0,>=1.15.0 # Apache-2.006:46
yamamoto_i think 1.17.0 is excluded for the reason.06:47
anil_raoreedip: Are you using the new neutron client, which is why you are not seeing this problem?06:47
yamamoto_anil_rao: which version of cliff are you using?06:48
reedipanil_rao : I pull my NeutronClient daily  :)06:48
reedipHandy #link
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anil_raoreedip: Thanks for the link06:48
reedipAs the link states, with the new neutronclient, we can have 2 versions 1.15.0 or 2.0.0 ...06:49
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yamamoto_as the problematic version of cliff is being excluded in global-req even for liberty, i don't think we have anything to do for this issue.06:51
anil_raoThere is another problem I wanted to discuss06:51
reedipsoftware engineers have to be problem solvers, so go ahead :)06:52
anil_raoIf we have an existing tap-service to which a tap-flow has been attached and then the VM whose port is the source port for the tap-service is terminated, that port is deleted.06:53
reedipI think I mentioned it in the email06:53
reedipvinay actually mentioned this in the spec06:53
reedipjust a minute06:53
reedipYup, its there06:54
reedippoint d)06:54
reedipd) Outcome of Deleting the VM where TaaS operates06:54
reedipFollowing might be added to the Spec:06:54
reedip1. Deletion of the VM (and port attched to it) from which we were mirroring06:54
reedip(source of the mirror):06:54
reedipIn this case we would do a cascade delete of the 'Tap_Flow' instances that06:54
reedipwere associated with the port that was deleted.06:54
reedip2. Deletion of the VM (and port attched to it) to which we were mirroring06:54
reedip(Destination of the mirror):06:54
reedipIn this case we would do a cascade delete of the 'Tap_Service' instance06:54
reedipthat was associated with the port that was deleted.06:54
reedipThis is currently missing in the spec and the design, and may need some work06:55
anil_raoI think that is somewhat similar but I am trying to describe something a little different. :)06:55
anil_raoEssentially, if for some reason we end up with the state where TaaS thinks that a functioning tap-flow is attached to a tap-service but the source port associated with the tap-flow no longer exists, we hit a bad situation06:57
anil_raoAt this stage, issueing tap-flowd-delete or even tap-service-delete commands just return an error saying that the source port of the tap-flow does not exist. However, the TaaS DB entries are still intact and subsequent tap-flow-list commands continue to refer to that source port.06:58
reedipanil_rao : so we need a purge type command ?06:58
reedipwhich clears the DB06:58
reedipor have a callback from nova06:59
anil_raoNot really. Here is what I think we need to do06:59
anil_raoWe need to hook up with Nova callbacks, but even if that is not there we should at least do the following:06:59
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anil_raotap-flow-delete should always clean up the tap-flow if the specified port is the source port of the flow.07:00
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anil_raoSimilarly tap-service-delete should also behave in the same way.07:00
anil_raoThis would mean that they are 'safe' calls and always ensure proper cleanup when invoked with their respective IDs07:00
yamamoto_i don't see why nova needs to be involved.07:00
yamamoto_what we care is a neutron port, isn't it?07:01
soichihi, sorry for late07:02
anil_raoWe just need a notification when the port is no longer associated with an instance07:02
anil_raoBut as I said above, irrespective of this tap-service-delete and tap-flow-delete should clean things up when invoked.07:02
anil_raoToday these calls return a failure saying that the port in question no longer exists.07:03
yamamoto_i guess what we need is a FK for tap_flows.source_port and some cleanup in l2 agent.07:03
reedipanil_rao : if a port doesnt exist, then cant we clear the DB ?07:03
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reedipI mean if we are sure that the tap-flow is broken, then cant we rollback the changes ?07:03
anil_raoyamamoto_: yes07:04
reedipok, I think yamamoto_ defined my point in a pretty little gist :)07:04
anil_raoreedip: Let me look at this code path some more. I thought we had set things up so that these delete calls would properly clean up the DB and then also clean up the state in the OVS bridges.07:05
reedipanil_rao : yeah sure07:05
anil_raoUntil then you don't want to delete ports associated with tap-flows and tap-services, while those resources are active. :-)07:06
anil_raoOtherwise you will not be able to clean out those tap-services and tap-flows any more.07:06
reediprun devstack again :D07:07
anil_raothat will work. :)07:07
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anil_raoI'll report back on some traffic related updates next week.07:08
anil_raosoichi: We got your email. Sorry for being late with the review comments on the Dashboard for TaaS. As you have suggested we can discuss this next week.07:09
soichiok. thank you.07:09
anil_raoIf there a no more updates do folks want to get back to the Spec discussion?07:10
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yamamoto_anyone working on agent extension?07:11
reedipno, but it was my AI07:12
yamamoto_there's a brief api doc available07:12
reedipI would start working on it this week07:12
anil_raoyamamoto_: Did you hear anything more about OVS resource reservation?07:12
yamamoto_anil_rao: nothing07:12
reedipyamamoto_ : thanks, will let you know if there are any hurdles07:12
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yamamoto_reedip: thank you.  it's better to sort out issues earlier.07:13
reedipyamamoto_ : yeah sure07:13
reedipokay, so can we start with the SPEC : 10 minutes left07:13
anil_raoI am not sure how this will all work out with several agent extensions simultaneously working07:14
anil_raoreedip: Yes, lets discuss the spec07:14
yamamoto_anil_rao: they will work when they happens to work. :-)07:14
reediplol .... yamamoto_ is right07:14
anil_raoyamamoto_: :-)07:15
reedipokay, well the first issue which some of the reviewers pointed out in the SPEC is07:15
reedipThe point of reference for Ingress and Egress07:15
reedipNeutron reviewers consider that any data traffic coming INTO the switch from a VM is ingress ( and opposite is Egress)07:15
anil_raoWe had a lot of discussion on this I remember in the earlier cycles. For the implementation which is the current TaaS code-base ingress and egress are w.r.t. the entitiy attached to the port.07:16
reedipwhile for TaaS, any data coming IN to the VM is Ingress07:16
reedipthat might need to be explicitly mentioned in the SPEC07:16
anil_raoIt is mentioned if I am not mistaken.07:17
reedipbecause as we are applying for Neutron Stadium, the definition which neutron reviewers carry might differ with our explanation07:17
reedipYeah it is...07:17
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reedipBut it was written in the previous spec as well07:17
anil_raoI am okay with either way. Does not really matter a big deal.07:17
reedipand they were of the opinion that it should be swapped07:18
reedipanil_rao : that would also mean changing the definition of the DIRECTION attribute for tap-flow07:18
anil_raoThe reason we chose the way it is is because Security Groups uses the same concept, i.e. w.r.t to instances.07:18
reedipif we are to swap the definition now07:18
reedipI think they can be convinced on this point , due to SG07:18
anil_raoUsers typically don't care about the underlying switch. If you see SEcurity Groups it is always w.r.t. to the entity attached to the port and not the switch.07:19
anil_raoIf we go the switch route it will lead to confusion with the end user.07:19
soichianil_rao: +107:20
yamamoto_otoh, port mirroring is usually a functionality of a switch.07:20
reedipanil_rao : as the user has not yet interacted with TaaS, I think we can still create the definition ....07:20
reedipI had to google what is OTOH ( on the other hand )07:20
anil_raoThe thing is this. The user will essentially want to monitor some endpoint, an instance, a DHCP server, a load balancer etc. That is the real use case. I think we need to think in terms of that.07:21
yamamoto_i think we can't avoid confusions as far as we use terms like in, ingress, etc.07:21
reedipanil_rao : yamamoto_ is right...07:22
reedipanil_rao: also here, we are monitoring a DHCP server (for example) but we are mentioning traffic in terms of the VM07:23
reedipthere would be some sort of confusion07:23
anil_raoI think its odd that when one wants to examine traffic coming into a VM, you end up saying the direction should be egress.07:23
anil_raoIts hard to corelate that to the ingress SG rules for the VM.07:23
soichiTaaS is a service for end users, i think. So, it should be easy to understand in terms of end user.07:24
reedipanil_rao : I think we can continue this discussion( and other points) on the ML itself. That ways Neutron cores can also pitch in07:24
anil_raoreedip: There is no difference between the DHCP server and a VM07:24
anil_raoreedip: Sounds good. :-)07:24
anil_raoWe can move on to the next topic(s)07:25
anil_raoWhat is item (b) about?07:26
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anil_raoWe are about to run out of time. Any thoughts on item (b)?07:27
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yamamoto_i don't understand (b)07:29
anil_raoSame here. Let's continue this discussion on the ML as reedip has recommended.07:30
yamamoto_both of l3 and lbaas are service plugins.07:30
anil_raoWell, we are out of time for today. We'll meet up again next week.07:31
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar  9 07:31:14 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)07:31
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ifat_afek#startmeeting vitrage09:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar  9 09:00:28 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ifat_afek. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vitrage)"09:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'vitrage'09:00
ifat_afekHi everyone :-)09:00
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idan_hefetzHi all!09:00
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lhartalhi all :)09:01
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ifat_afek#topic Current status09:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Current status (Meeting topic: vitrage)"09:05
ifat_afekI'll start with aodh09:05
ifat_afekLast week I finished writing the two aodh blueprints, for snapshot plugin and notifier.09:05
ifat_afekI joined ceilometer IRC meeting and asked them to review it. They seemed interested, but didn’t review our blueprints yet09:05
ifat_afekI started the implementation of aodh plugin. Basic implementation is working, but the alarms are still not connected to resources09:06
idan_hefetzFirst, Graph Notifier blueprint still requires some integration with the Evaluator, and will be closed soon.09:06
idan_hefetzSecond, regarding Aodh-Notifier blueprint, i will share my design later on today09:07
idan_hefetzwe had some advances with bus notifications, that will make it easier to implement09:07
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ifat_afekidan_hefetz: cool09:08
ifat_afekOhad and I are preparing to the hackfest next week. And we are all working on preparing a demo09:09
ifat_afekMy part is of course to make sure nagios and aodh work09:09
ifat_afekOther news: We got a comment to monasca blueprint from Roland Hochmuth, their PTL. They plan to implement something that will help us in the integration09:10
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eyalbmonasca told me that that they started working on a feature for periodic notification09:12
eyalbwhich can be good for us09:12
eyalbI also added a readme file for the vitrage client09:12
eyalbthats all09:13
ifat_afekeyalb: I saw it, thanks. already added a link to this page in our wiki09:13
ifat_afekwho wants to update next?09:13
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lhartalI will update, for me and elisha_r09:14
lhartalwe are at the very last stages of finishing the evaluator, end to end09:14
lhartalshould have the set_state and rca actions supported by the end of the day, and the raise_alarm as well, though without the support of the notifier which is still in development09:15
lhartalwe will also add several initial templates into the default vitrage deployment.09:16
lhartalthat's it for now.09:16
ifat_afeklhartal: great!!09:17
ifat_afekso you mean we will see the deduced alarms in vitrage tree, but not in external sources like aodh (since the notifier is not finished yet)09:18
lhartalyes - right now we will see the Vitrage alarms only in Vitrage graph. Also, as I wrote, The AODH notifier is in developing stage so in the mear future we will be able to see deduced alarms in AODH09:21
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ifat_afekbut once you are done, we will see them in the UI, right?09:21
lhartalyes, in the alarms screen.09:22
ifat_afekthis is great09:22
ifat_afekwho wants to update next?09:22
alexey_weylI will update09:23
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alexey_weylI have finished to work on the states and they are working.09:23
alexey_weylNow i am preparing 2 environments for the demo for OPNFV09:24
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alexey_weylDue to that I am working on the integration of all the parts in Vitrage09:24
ifat_afekalexey_weyl: great, thanks09:24
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omer_etrogI will update for Alon09:25
ifat_afekomer_etrog: maybe you can update?09:25
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omer_etrogHe add new icons and colors according to the alert severity09:26
omer_etrogWe are supporting @alexey_weyl in the installation09:27
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omer_etrogand I`m done09:28
ifat_afekomer_etrog: thanks09:28
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ifat_afeknoam_bloom is not here today. I know that he finished the first part of plugins loading from conf file, but still has some work to do09:29
ifat_afekany other updates anyone?09:29
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ifat_afekok, moving on09:30
ifat_afek#topic Review action items09:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Review action items (Meeting topic: vitrage)"09:30
ifat_afek1. ifat_afek update aodh blueprints09:30
ifat_afekthis is finally done :-)09:30
ifat_afek2. define what information that should appear in the alarms list09:30
ifat_afeknot done yet. we should do it once we see nagios alarms, aodh alarms and vitrage alarms together. hopefully today09:31
ifat_afek#action define what information that should appear in the alarms list09:31
ifat_afek3. eyalb_ copy vitrage API documentation to the developer guide09:31
eyalbyes still need to do it09:32
eyalbI did it for the cli09:32
ifat_afekeyalb: ok, thanks. you also documented the api in the blueprints, which are still open because we hope to get external reviews09:33
ifat_afekmoving on09:33
ifat_afek#topic Next Steps09:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Next Steps (Meeting topic: vitrage)"09:33
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ifat_afekI think that next week we should record a new demo with all the cool functionalities - deduced alarms, deduced states and rca09:34
elisha_rcool - can't wait to see it :)09:35
ifat_afek#action record a demo with deduced alarms, deduced states and rca09:35
ifat_afekanything else?09:35
ifat_afek#topic Open Discussion09:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: vitrage)"09:36
ifat_afekanything you want to discuss?09:36
ifat_afekok, so we're done09:39
alexey_weylBye bye all09:39
ifat_afekbye everyoen09:39
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"09:39
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar  9 09:39:45 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)09:39
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primeministerphi sagar13:01
alexpilottihey folks13:01
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alexpilottiprevious meeting ended?13:02
sagar_nikamhi primeministerp:13:02
alexpilotticant see the endmeeting13:02
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claudiubdidn't see any meeting13:02
claudiubfor the past 45 minutes13:02
atuvenie__Hi all13:02
alexpilotti#startmeeting hyper-v13:02
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar  9 13:02:34 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is alexpilotti. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"13:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v'13:02
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alexpilotti#topic M313:03
*** openstack changes topic to "M3 (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"13:03
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alexpilottiwe are marching towards the Mitaka release13:03
alexpilottiso it's time to wrap up, since M3 got released last week13:04
alexpilottiwe are moving blueprint code to compute-hyperv13:04
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alexpilottiso from now till Newton window opens, there's nothing we can do on teh Nova side13:05
alexpilottiexpect possible bugs that should arise in the meantime13:05
alexpilottisagar_nikam: any particular request?13:06
sagar_nikamnot as of now on Mitaka atleast for nova13:06
sagar_nikamkvinod: anything on neutron ?13:06
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alexpilottiany pending bug or issue that we didn't discuss and you guys would like to discuss now?13:07
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sagar_nikamalexpilotti: i have some questions on nova-hyperv in general, not related to Mitaka, we can discuss later13:07
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lpetrutHi guys13:07
alexpilottisagar_nikam: can you do a quick list of the topics?13:08
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domi_Hi all, while sagar_nikam is working on that list let me introduce myself in a sentence13:08
sagar_nikami have one topic of nova-compute using certs to connect to keystone13:08
alexpilottihi domi_, welcome!13:08
sagar_nikamkvinod: has more topics for networking13:09
alexpilottikvinod doesnt seem to be online now13:09
domi_I work for a new company with just a couple of people loacted in Budapest, Hungary working on HyperV based OpenStack public and private cloud. Alessandro and CloudBase helped us a lot along the way, but we are still not at production yet, although we are getting closer every day.13:09
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alexpilottidomi_: thanks for joining!13:10
alexpilottido you have any particular topid that you'd like to discuss here?13:11
claudiubwelcome. :)13:11
domi_I'm glad to be here, I'll probably just be a silent observer first, and see if there is anything I can chime in on :)13:11
alexpilottiwe're setting up the agenda now, so if you have any topic it's a good time :)13:11
domi_alexpilotti: I guess the issue we were talking about on skype isn't interesting for anyone here, so nothing I think13:11
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alexpilottinext topic then13:12
alexpilotti#topic Rally tests13:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Rally tests (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"13:12
alexpilottisagar_nikam: did you guys manage to do some more performance testing?13:12
sagar_nikamthat is in plan. but done yet13:13
alexpilottiwe started packaging Mitaka3, so we will do the usual Rally runs probably next week13:13
sagar_nikamkvinod's team will do it13:13
alexpilottiOVS 2.5 is also getting packaged, so we will do a separate run including that as well13:14
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alexpilottinot much more to add for now13:14
alexpilottinext topic, then13:14
alexpilotti#topic hyper-v cluster13:15
*** openstack changes topic to "hyper-v cluster (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"13:15
alexpilottiMitaka patches are close to merge13:15
alexpilottiin compute-hyperv, necessarily13:15
alexpilottifollwing that, we'll do the usual round of Tempest and Rally tests as well to see how they perform13:16
alexpilotti#topic PyMI13:17
*** openstack changes topic to "PyMI (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"13:17
alexpilottimoving on to PyMI13:17
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alexpilottiwe're adding a few patches for improved compatibility with the old WMI module13:17
alexpilotticompatibility is ensured until the current release13:18
alexpilottistarting from Newton, we will target PyMI only13:18
sagar_nikamalexpilotti: we are planning to use pyMI with liberty13:18
sagar_nikamour initial perf tests gave us good numbers13:19
sagar_nikambut let us know whenever you add anything new in pyMI13:19
alexpilottisince the goal is to a pure drop in replacement, I don't expect issues13:19
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alexpilottiwe hist one on a Liberty backport (thanks domi_ for reporting it), where associator references have different types between WMI and PyMI13:20
alexpilottithis is getting fixed, but has no impact on the current upstream codebase if PyMI is used13:20
sagar_nikamis that the only issue for using with liberty ?13:20
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alexpilottiyes, it's the only open bug in PyMI13:21
alexpilottiit's alaos avery small fix13:21
sagar_nikamyour team tested pyMI with liberty ?13:21
alexpilottiwe're now testing the patch to make sure everything works13:21
domi_that's right, although it is possible that the code has more issue that are similar just we haven't hit them13:21
domi_but according to you pymi should be the answer to all of those13:21
alexpilottidomi_: reason for those issues is that we test only with PyMI now13:22
alexpilottiso they happened when using the old WMI13:22
domi_I see, that makes sense13:22
alexpilottiwhich, although deprecated, is still supported on Liberty13:22
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alexpilottiour next Liberty release (12.0.2), will include PyMI by default13:23
sagar_nikamalexpilotti: will it be possible for your team to run tests on liberty using pyMI, just to check everything works fine13:23
alexpilottiwhile 12.0.0 and 12.0.1 still come with the old WMI13:23
alexpilottisagar_nikam: teh CI uses PyMI13:23
sagar_nikamdoes CI run on liberty as well now ?13:24
alexpilottiso the issue is in teh other case: if you use the old WMI :)13:24
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alexpilottisagar_nikam: since a while13:24
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alexpilottiit runs on all supported stable branches13:24
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alexpilottibut again, it runs only with PyMI, so if you happen to use the old WMI there might be issues that the CI cannot discover13:25
domi_alexpilotti: sorry to put this in here, but is there any documentation on what kind of testing is being done by the CI systems? Because it feels like there is a little bit of a gap between real life scenarios and CI scenarios13:25
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alexpilottidomi_: all teh CI automation scripts are published and documented13:26
alexpilottidomi_: it'all on github13:26
domi_all right, I'll sniff through them then, thanks13:26
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alexpilottifor every patch, you can also look through the results of the CI run13:27
alexpilottiwhich include all the devstack and hyper-v configurations, logs, etc13:27
alexpilottisaid that, OpenStack can be deployed in a gazillion ways13:27
alexpilottiso there are of course scenarios that are not present in the CI runs13:28
alexpilottiold WMI, being one of those13:28
alexpilottiany other questions here?13:28
alexpilottiok, timing out :)13:29
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alexpilotti#topic local storage on CSV / SMB313:29
*** openstack changes topic to "local storage on CSV / SMB3 (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"13:29
alexpilottiuntil now we always said that having local storage on common storage is not supported13:30
alexpilottithere are some specific reasons here:13:30
alexpilotti1) all nodes will report the same storage availability13:30
alexpilottiso if we have 4 nodes, and the common storage has 100GB free13:31
alexpilottito total reported by the nodes will be 100*4 GB13:31
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alexpilottithis will of course confuse the scheduler resulting in involuntary overcommitment :)13:32
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sagar_nikamthis affects only cluster driver13:32
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alexpilottinot only13:33
alexpilottiif you have c:\Openstack mounted on CSV or SMB313:34
alexpilottithis includes also S2D13:34
alexpilottiso having this scenario working, is very useful for hyper-converged deployments (as we do)13:35
alexpilottiwhat needs to be done:13:35
domi_it could be worked around by disabling the diskfilter of the scheduler, so overcommitment is allowed but in the end that leads the hypervs crashing etc.13:35
alexpilottidomi_: there's an actual solution13:35
alexpilottithere's a Nova BP exactly for this use case13:36
alexpilottijaypipes is working on it if I'm not mistaken13:36
alexpilotticlaudiub: do you have the BP link at hand by any chance?13:36
claudiubeh, sure, let me fetch it13:36
alexpilottithis will target Newton at best of course13:37
domi_alexpilotti: oh okay. Is this related to the problem/bug that nova reports remote volumes as local disk space used?13:37
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alexpilottiyes, because they not remote: they are still local, but mounted remotely :)13:37
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alexpilottiso it's not actually a bug13:38
alexpilottito be clear: local storage mounted remotely is NOT supported ATM13:38
domi_alexpilotti: talking about when they are specified as volumes not local disk (e.g. iSCSI volumes)13:38
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alexpilottithe current discussion is: what to do to have it supported13:38
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domi_okay :)13:39
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alexpilottilooking at the BP, there are already a few WiP patches, it's not a trivial one: #link
jaypipesalexpilotti: me, cdent, bauzas, edleafe and others are all working on it :) but generic-resource-pools won't be done until Newton.13:40
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alexpilottijaypipes: thanks for confirming it!13:40
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alexpilottiwe'd be happy to help, as you know it's an important one for hyepr-v as well13:41
jaypipesalexpilotti: no worries :) here is the blueprint:
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alexpilottiso, in the meantime some hacky custom filters can do the trick of course13:42
alexpilottimeantime = Liberty, Mitaka :)13:42
alexpilottigetting back to the Hyper-V driver, there's one more thing that needs to be done:13:43
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alexpilottiresize / cold migration must support a shared storage13:43
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alexpilotticurrently resize uses a logic taken from the libvirt driver, where in case of resize the VM is stopped, copied to target, recreated and started13:44
alexpilottiwhen source and target are the same, data is simply moved to a temp location and restarted13:45
alexpilottiwe just need to add a check, that in case of shared storage, we need to treat the remote case as the local case, that's it13:45
domi_alexpilotti: we would very much like that :)13:46
alexpilottito do that we can check at the host level if the path points to the same storage and act accordingly13:46
alexpilottithis is a patch that will be done for Mitaka and will be easy to backport13:47
alexpilottiit wont make it upstream beforeNewton, but it will be part of compute-hyperv (kilo+)13:48
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alexpilottiwe are getting close to the 10' left mark13:48
sagar_nikami have a question for using certs13:49
sagar_nikamfor keystone13:49
sagar_nikamwe can provide cafile13:49
alexpilotti#topic using X509 certificates in nova-compute config13:49
*** openstack changes topic to "using X509 certificates in nova-compute config (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"13:49
sagar_nikamdoes it work in HyperV13:50
sagar_nikamin controller, we have.crt file13:50
alexpilottithat code comes straight from the Nova compute manager, aka common code base13:50
alexpilottiit works on Hyper-V in the same way as, say, libvirt13:50
sagar_nikami mean does work on HyperV host13:50
alexpilottias in in if it works on windows?13:51
sagar_nikam.crt needs to be changed to .cer ?13:51
sagar_nikamyes, does it work on windows13:51
sagar_nikamhas it been tested13:51
sagar_nikamwe have always used only creds13:51
alexpilottithat is python standard code, we never had particular issues13:51
sagar_nikamwe have never provided the cafile13:51
alexpilottibut it wont use Windows cert store13:52
alexpilottiyou need to provide cert, key and ca13:52
sagar_nikamso just copying .crt file from controller13:52
sagar_nikamon hyperv host and then giving that path in nova.conf is sufficient ?13:52
alexpilottiibalutoiu just did a similar config13:52
sagar_nikamon the hyperv host13:53
domi_I'm pretty sure python is wrapping around openssl so it should work fine on any platform13:53
sagar_nikamso we dont need to change crt to cer file ?13:53
sagar_nikami was reading on net that crt file will not work in windows13:53
alexpilottidomi_: not necessarily in some cases the Python code uses cryptoAPI on Windows, but the usage is transparent13:53
domi_my idea would be no, but that's purely theoretical13:53
sagar_nikambut as domi_ mentioned python may be handling it13:54
alexpilottiwe had no issues with it until now13:54
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alexpilottinote: crt is a file extension, the file format is either CER or DER13:54
sagar_nikamalexpilotti: can you give me some contacts from your team whom i can reach out to understand it further13:54
sagar_nikamwe are almost end of this meeting13:54
sagar_nikamlpetrut: ?13:55
alexpilottisure, can you please send an email? I will loop the engineer working on it13:55
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sagar_nikamalexpilotti: thanks13:55
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sagar_nikammoving to next topic if we are done on this13:56
alexpilottiI dont expect any surprise (everything worked so far with X509), but in case we will document any differences compared to the Linux case13:56
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alexpilottisure, 4' left13:56
alexpilotti#topic open discussion13:56
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*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"13:56
sagar_nikami could not find anything on the proxy which you mentioned last week13:56
alexpilottiso freerdp it is :)13:56
alexpilottithe proxy is not part of freerdp-webconnect13:57
sagar_nikamnovnc proxy does it the required proxy for libvirt13:57
sagar_nikamyes, since proxy is not part of freerdp-webconnect13:57
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sagar_nikamwondering how it needs to be done13:57
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alexpilottinovnc equivalent is wsgate (freerdp-webconnect)13:57
sagar_nikamin case of novnc13:57
sagar_nikamwe have novnc proxy13:57
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alexpilottiit's the same13:58
sagar_nikamwe dont have a similar freerdp-webconnect proxy13:58
alexpilottiwhat I was referring to is to use a reverse proxy in front13:58
alexpilottiyou need something that can reverse proxy web sockets13:58
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sagar_nikamalexpilotti: ok you meant reverse proxy on controller13:58
sagar_nikamnot anything related to freerdp-webconnect13:58
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alexpilotticontroller or external load balancers, depends on your deployment13:59
sagar_nikamlet me check13:59
sagar_nikami may try to use windows NLB13:59
alexpilottiit'd be: rev_proxy -> wsgate -> hyper-v13:59
sagar_nikamby installing freerdp MSI and multiple wndows machines14:00
sagar_nikamall behind NLB14:00
sagar_nikamso everything in windows14:00
sagar_nikamwill work well14:00
alexpilottionly thing: you need cleint session affinity as the websocket needs to be connected14:00
alexpilottitime's over14:00
alexpilottithanks guys for joining!14:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"14:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar  9 14:00:57 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:01
openstackMinutes (text):
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ajohi, QoS meeting ? :)14:01
ihrachysI am just lurking, ping me when needed14:01
ajonjohnston, ping14:02
irenabsame for me14:02
ajovikram_, ping14:02
ajoreedip_away,  ping14:02
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ajoit's only going to be me ? :)14:02
ajohi jschwarz  :D14:02
jschwarzhi ajo14:02
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ajohi vhoward14:03
ajoI guess we can start14:03
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jschwarzI'm actually a bit out of touch - did we get the FFE for DSCP?14:03
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ajo#startmeeting neutron_qos14:03
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar  9 14:03:47 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ajo. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"14:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_qos'14:03
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ajoHi, let's start by the features report14:04
ajo#topic features report14:04
*** openstack changes topic to "features report (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"14:04
ajoRBAC and LB/bwlimiting are merged14:04
ajoand we have DSCP still waiting to be decided14:04
ajoarmax identified that neutronclient for DSCP required an exception, and that's still being decided, I need to talk to dhellmann when he's back around14:05
ajofor testing, we require that to include fullstack tests in the release14:06
ajoand also, it's of course, important for people to be able to use the feature14:06
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ajoalthough they could bump their clients to 4.2.x , that wouldn't be ideal14:06
ajoI think armax worry was mostly about quality assurance, so I want to talk with him again today too14:06
* ajo looks for the mail list link14:07
jschwarzajo, sorry, I misunderstood - the fullstack tests should be merged before the GA as well?14:07
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ajoI think that's what armax means, but may be his quality concern was more about making server side available, and not neutron client14:08
ajoIMHO, the neutronclient change is so orthogonal to anything else, that it's safe14:08
ajobut getting a feature in in RC needs their exception approval14:09
ajovhoward, thoughts?14:09
ajojschwarz, did I answer your question ^?14:09
jschwarzajo, yes14:09
ajoihrachys, any extra thoughts on this ^  ?14:10
ajofor testing-sake, amotoki provided an alternative option which could satisfy the fullstack part:
ihrachysajo: no thoughts, just praying14:11
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ajoihrachys, I pray to my computer via keyboard :D14:11
amotokiin my understanding, we have two client libs for testing: tempest-lib and python-*client.14:11
ajoamotoki, correct, tempest-lib is covered, and included within the patch14:12
ajoalong with API testing14:12
amotokiare we using python-*client for fullstack testing?14:12
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ajojschwarz, ^ could it make sense, to move to our own tempest-lib in the future to avoid issues like this?14:12
amotokiwhat is the direction? do we support both?14:13
ajoor do we want to test python-neutronclient specifically14:13
* jschwarz is still reading the mail14:13
ajowhich, can make sense as a "full" stack14:13
ajoamotoki, tempest tests always used their tempest lib, and we inherited that in the API-tests ,14:13
ajoI guess they had this kind of dependency issue in the past14:14
jschwarzamotoki, we're using python-neutronclient specifically in fullstack14:14
amotokiin my understanding, the reason tempest-lib has its own client is because we need to test API itself.14:14
ajobut I guess that also makes sense to have fullstack testing the client, as it's part of the standard stack14:14
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jschwarzamotoki, granted, fullstack was written before tempest-lib so it might make sense to revisit this now14:14
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ajojschwarz, ok, may be something we could discuss in next neutron meetings14:15
ajoor over the ML14:15
jschwarzajo, agreed. I'll ping amuller over it and see what he thinks14:15
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amotokijschwarz: thanks. i didn't know the full story of fullstack.14:15
slaweq_hello, sorry for late14:15
ajoamotoki, jschwarz , but to be faird, regardless of the dependency,  fullstack is adding extra testing to neutronclient, which tempest does not14:15
ajofaird? .. fair14:15
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ajohi slaweq_ :)14:16
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jschwarzyes. but if tempest-lib can be used to streamline such processes of adding new features...14:16
* jschwarz is not very familiar with tempest-lib14:16
amotokiI think it depends on the purpose of fullstack tests.14:16
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ajoif we want to keep neutronclient within it's scope, or not,14:17
ajowe also have openstack cli ;)14:17
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amotokiI agree that we need more testing for neutronclinet as python SDK.14:17
jschwarzamotoki, from what I understand from my brief look at the github, it looks like tempest-lib merely runs the CLI of neutronclient - am I mistaken?14:17
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jschwarzah I just found the services/network/ library14:18
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amotokijschwarz: though I am talking about tempest api test or tempest-lib, they have several portions: API tests, CLI tests.14:18
ajook, so let's talk to dhellman and armax, amotoki,  I will ping you for just in case you can join that conversation (#openstack-release  / #openstack-neutron) when it happens,14:18
-amotoki- will try to be online in next several hours14:19
njohnstonajo: I'd like to piggyback as well14:19
ajohi njohnston,14:19
jschwarzI think we all agree there's an added bonus in using python-neutronclient for the end-to-end testability it gives14:19
ajoany strong point to help me convince them to get the neutronclient/feature in ?14:19
jschwarzanyway I'll bring it to amuller's office14:19
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jschwarzajo, yes.14:19
ajoIMHO you have all made a good work making things U/S now, and collaborating into other needs for the feature to exist14:19
ajoand that makes me think it's nicer to have in M than start-of-N14:20
jschwarzajo, previously (in the first version of QoS) the neutronclient patches didn't need a FFE (as far as I remember - ihrachys seems to disagree with me)14:20
ihrachysjschwarz: I don't disagree14:20
amotokifrom user perspective, it is nicer to be a part of M :)14:20
jschwarzajo, also testing code can definetely be pushed back to near-RC14:20
jschwarzah! :)14:20
ihrachysjschwarz: I only think that assuming procedures are not changed is not correct14:20
ajoamotoki: yes, as it's ready14:21
jschwarzihrachys, ack14:21
jschwarzanyway ajo you might be able to play on the "previously we didn't need a FFE for the python-neutronclient - why now?" card14:21
amotokianyway I will review client patches14:21
ajojschwarz, yes, that freeze is something does not fully convince me, but , I understand their reasons for doing it14:22
jschwarzajo, me too. but it's leverage XD14:22
ajoamotoki, thanks: the only thing it does is refactoring some bw-limiting-rule (qos) parts, but it seems safe to me14:22
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ajoamotoki, outside of it's only scope for existence :)14:23
ajodhellmann, ^  when you're around14:23
ajodhellmann, it's all about
ajoso, probably we must jump to next topic14:24
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ajoI wanted to ask for some clarifications on the ECN RFE14:25
ajo#topic RFEs14:25
*** openstack changes topic to "RFEs (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"14:25
ajoI asked some questions about ECN here:14:25
ajoand here:14:25
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openstackLaunchpad bug 1505627 in neutron "[RFE] QoS Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) Support" [Wishlist,Confirmed] - Assigned to Reedip (reedip-banerjee)14:26
ajocomment 1114:26
ajobut still waiting for answer, sorry it took me to long to get into this RFE.14:26
ajovikram_, reedip_away are you around?14:26
njohnstonAlso, as I recall from the RFC the ECN bit to be used is a negotiated thing, isn't it?14:27
njohnstonas in, is this side using ECT(0) or ECT(1)14:27
ajonjohnston, and when negotiated, to notify the other side about congestion too14:27
ajothe idea is that instead of dropping the packet, you let it in, and on the ACK you set the ECN flag14:28
ajo(for TCP)14:28
ajoand the other end throttles14:28
ajoand as far as I understood, anything in the middle can raise the flag for packets14:28
ajobut it has to be raised in the sender direction14:28
ajoon subsequent packets14:29
ajoif I didn't get it wrong14:29
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ajobut I would like confirmation since I'm not an expert on the matter14:29
ajoalso, It's unclear to me how would it be implemented, but that would be more matter of a spec14:29
irenabajo: this may need ToP support as well14:30
njohnstonRead RFC3168 section 6.1.1 to see how it should be implemented for negotiating ECN-capable connections:
ajoirenab, ToP?14:31
amotokiI think ajo's understanding is correct in general.14:31
ajoah, ToR could make use of it to flags packets, but it's not necessary14:31
amotokiToR is one of the middle14:31
ajonjohnston, I must read it, but yes, it has to be negotiated end to end,14:31
ajoif we want to be able to manipulate the bit to flag over-bandwidth14:32
ajothanks for confirmation amotoki14:32
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ajook, could it make sense to say: let's ask for a spec on this?14:32
ajoso they can provide more details of how they plan to implement it?14:33
ajoamotoki, btw, thanks for joining, I know it's a very bad hour in your TZ :)14:33
irenabajo: I think if the use case is clear, asking for the sopec is reasonable step14:34
ajoamotoki, njohnston , irenab , ok I will explain in the RFE and so next time this is to be looked at in drivers meeting, they can verify it's in good state to ask for spec work.14:35
amotokiajo: np though it is around 2330. I am waiting for the start of live TV program of cycling road rase (paris to nice)14:35
ajo:D amotoki14:35
njohnstonAlso, why does it say, "but this will be a redundant effort" in ?14:35
openstackLaunchpad bug 1505627 in neutron "[RFE] QoS Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) Support" [Wishlist,Confirmed] - Assigned to Reedip (reedip-banerjee)14:35
njohnston"Though each hosts can use IP header TOS ECN bit functionality to implement explicit congestion notification [1]_ but this will be a redundant effort." <- from the first paragraph of the bug report14:35
ajoI don't know14:36
njohnstonI did not grok the 'redundant' part14:36
* dhellmann reads some scrollback14:37
ajohi dhellmann , may be I can give you a reduced version14:38
ajothanks for reading,14:38
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ajoOne of the features that the people from comcast and intel have been working on (QoS/DSCP marking) depends on the neutronclient support (for testability, -we could workaround that-, and for user experience : availability of the client bits)14:38
ajoThe have been working on that for like 5 cycles, and they have made a hard work to get that happening the upstream way14:39
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ajoin a generic enough way so we could construct a good QoS api, instead of an scattered one14:39
ajoand they also helped in making agents extensible, etc... paying lots of technical debt in the way14:40
dhellmannI appreciate the amount of effort involved14:40
ajoI understand the reasons of freeze14:40
ajothe neutron client patch is quite orthogonal to anything else14:40
ajoand I believe it would not introduce any risk14:40
dhellmannthe problem is that we have other projects that depend on neutron client, and the requirements are under freeze right now to avoid introducing uncertainty into the build system while we finalize feature work on all projects14:41
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ajodhellmann, but no other projects are using the specific features this patch adds14:41
dhellmannajo : but they use neutronclient14:42
dhellmannand this work would require a new release, and changing the constraints file14:42
dhellmannboth of those are frozen except for bugs right now14:42
ajodhellmann, yes, that's why we were asking for an exception14:43
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dhellmannI count 57 different projects that have neutronclient in requirements file14:43
dhellmannajo: I'm trying to explain why I do not want to give you that exception. :-/14:43
dhellmannis there any reason the service feature can't land without the client update?14:44
ajodhellmann, armax was against it (as far as I understood)14:44
ihrachysdhellmann: no strict reason14:44
ajobut may be he was refering just on testing14:45
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dhellmannok, I can see his perspective on that14:45
ajoI may need to clarify that with him as soon as he's online14:45
ajoI guess his concern would be providing a the server feature, with no client side, but at least the interested parties could start making use of it via API14:45
dhellmannif the team decides the feature can land without the client update, then you could prepare a new feature release of the client from master soon after we unfreeze releases and requirements14:46
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dhellmannthat release would be part of newton, not mitaka, but it would at least give you a release to work with14:46
amotokiajo: can we implement a specific part we need for testing   by using put/post/delete/get directly?14:46
ajoamotoki, for that think it would be enough to use our neutron testing upper-contraints14:47
dhellmannif the team decides that both parts of the feature need to land around the same time, then I'm not sure I see another good path forward14:47
ihrachysamotoki: it's not about testing, it's about what we claim to be the official mitaka client version (which will not include bits to work with some parts of mitaka server)14:47
ajodhellmann, thanks for your input, and patience14:47
dhellmannajo: sure, I'm sorry the timing worked out the way it did14:47
ihrachysajo: dhellmann: I guess we need to get back to armax with 'partial' proposal14:47
amotokiihrachys: got it14:47
njohnstonIn my view, partial is better than nothing14:47
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ajoihrachys: but still, interested parties could go just via API, as some people do, fi they wanted14:48
ajoor bump their neutron client / do a bacport14:48
ihrachysnjohnston: yes. and it's easy to backport dscp to mitaka client14:48
ihrachysnot in upstream but generally14:48
ajoyeah, I mean that14:48
amotokiihrachys: doesn't it violate the backport policy?14:48
njohnstonI'd rather backport DSCP to mitaka just in python-neutronclient than have to do it in both client and server14:48
ihrachysamotoki: that's why not upstream.14:49
ajoamotoki, that's why he says "not in upstream" :) but people could do it D/S if they wanted14:49
ajoor they could grab the 4.2.x series of the client14:49
ihrachysamotoki: but it would be fine for Red Hat or Comcast to backport it to whatever they use14:49
ajoor if they talk to API without our client :)14:49
amotokiihrachys: ah... i missed that line.14:49
ihrachysbackport for something with alembic script is not THAT obvious14:49
ajowhich is also a perfect valid case14:49
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ajoD/S backport of server side would be a mess if it's not the first DB thing to land newton14:50
ajoor merged in Mitaka-RC14:50
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ajook, I will answer with a link to this discussion in the mail list14:51
ajoand propose the approach of merging only the server-side and bumping upper-requiremets to have fullstack in14:51
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njohnstonSounds good.14:51
ajook, where were we14:52
ajowe were talking about ECN14:52
ajo#action ajo make a note on the ECN RFE to say it's ok for us to ask for a spec from the RFE workflow.14:53
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ajo#action ajo fill ingress QoS rate limit RFE14:53
ajo#action ajo fille minimum egress bw guarantees RFE14:53
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0xad9a890>14:53
ajo#action ajo fill minimum egress bw guarantees RFE14:53
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ajodavidsha is not around, I was going to ask for the status of:14:54
openstackLaunchpad bug 1505627 in neutron "[RFE] QoS Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) Support" [Wishlist,Confirmed] - Assigned to Reedip (reedip-banerjee)14:54
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openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0xaba0610>14:54
openstackLaunchpad bug 1527671 in neutron "[RFE]Neutron QoS Priority Queuing rule" [Wishlist,Triaged]14:55
ajoprobably in next meeting we should start talking of prioritization of next cycle14:55
ajoso we can share that with the drivers team.14:55
ajoand see what they think.14:55
irenabajo: it worth to meniton on the RFE is it has dependency on other projects, like nova14:56
ajo#topic Free discussion14:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Free discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"14:56
ajoirenab, the BW guarantees one? , yes14:56
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ajospecifically with (if lucky) generic resource pools, and scheduling14:56
slaweq_I want to ask about bug
openstackLaunchpad bug 1507761 in neutron "qos wrong units in max-burst-kbps option (per-second is wrong)" [Low,Confirmed] - Assigned to Slawek Kaplonski (slaweq)14:56
ajohi slaweq_ :)14:57
ajohow's that going?14:57
slaweq_I'm not sure if would be better to change parameter name to max_burst_kb or maybe remove units from those names at all?14:57
slaweq_ajo: hi, I just starting to work on this14:57
slaweq_I had no time before14:57
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ajokb can be confused to "kilobyte"14:58
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ajoI'd say max_burst_kbits14:58
ajooposed to the current max_burst_kbps14:58
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njohnston+1 kbits - just saying "kb" will be interpreted by the viewer however they want14:58
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slaweq_I don't know it will be confued, kbytes would be kB14:58
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slaweq_but ok, thx for Your opinion :)14:59
slaweq_so I know what to do now14:59
ajokbytes is kB, but still...14:59
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slaweq_ok, so thx14:59
ajoso, I guess we should wrap up, it's the top of the hour14:59
ajothanks everybody for joining14:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"14:59
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar  9 14:59:50 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:59
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openstackMinutes (text):
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rhochmuth#startmeeting monasca15:02
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar  9 15:02:27 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is rhochmuth. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: monasca)"15:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'monasca'15:02
rhochmuthrunning a little late this morning15:02
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slogan_r_it's 7 am here, late is good :-)15:03
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rhochmuth#topic summit15:03
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rhochmuthment to mention that the agenda is posted at,
rhochmuthAgenda for Wednesday March 9, 2016 (15:00 UTC)15:04
rhochmuth1.Austin Summit Monasca Sessions15:04
rhochmuth2.Monasca Agent discussion from previous week with SAP regarding overriding dimensions15:04
rhochmuth3.Stale alarms for metrics that don't exist anymore (deleted vms) -- how should we address?15:04
rhochmuth4.Multiple metrics per http request on statistics and measurements resource.15:04
rhochmuth1.See review at
rhochmuth5.Brief status update for Anomaly Detection15:04
rhochmuthSo, it looks like we had a descent number of Monasca related sessions15:04
rhochmuthThanks everyone15:04
rhochmuthhi jobrs15:05
jobrshere for topic 2.15:05
rhochmuthi've put it for four design summit sessions at the summit15:05
rhochmuthassuming that occurs, we should be able to have some discussions there15:06
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rhochmuthso, i'll keep you posted on what i get, and then we can adjust the agenda as we get closer15:06
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rhochmuththe the summary is overall planning/status, discussion on new features and performance, logging api/implementation, and monasca/networking/broadview15:07
rhochmuthif we run over, then we can find open spots to discuss more15:08
rhochmuthdoes that sound reasonable?15:08
bkleisounds good to me15:08
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slogan_r_sounds good here15:08
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ho_awayif possible, i would like to add anomaly detection15:09
ho_awayin new features?15:09
rhochmuthho_away: if you'll be attending then i'll request a another spot for that topic15:09
rhochmuthunfortunatley, the folks from bristol won't be there15:09
rhochmuthso, i was worried about general attendance15:09
rhochmuthbut i'll request another spot, and we can discuss that topic in detail with whoever attends15:10
ho_awayi know, i didn't get permission for it yet but i will go there.15:10
rhochmuthi'll definitely be up for a discssuon and planning on that topic15:10
ho_awayafter i get permission i will let you know thanks!15:10
rhochmuthok, thanks15:11
rhochmuth#topic agent15:11
*** openstack changes topic to "agent (Meeting topic: monasca)"15:11
rhochmuthjobrs: this is a carry over from last week15:11
rhochmuthi guess we broke you15:11
rhochmuthso, do you have a proposal15:11
jobrsI shared some links last time, they are in the logs15:12
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rhochmuthwe could add a parameter to adjust the behaviour15:12
rhochmuthkeep the old or the new15:12
rhochmuthbased on a parameter15:12
rhochmuthwoudl that be acceptable?15:12
jobrsI would be happy already if we would have a shared view on what the 'service' dimension is good for15:12
jobrsa) openstack service15:13
jobrsb) technical service15:13
jobrsa) means that plugins for generic components/services do not know the answer15:13
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jobrsb) means that plugins for generic components set it themselves15:14
jobrsbut b) also means that there is not standard dimension for openstack services as registered in the ks catalog15:14
rhochmuthThis is what we've been trying to do15:14
jobrsb) also means that we have quite redundancy between component and service - what is the difference at all?15:14
jobrsto me the previous behavior was more consistent15:15
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jobrshave 'user' set 'service' if it is a generic component15:15
jobrsand not do something like component='mysql', service='mysql',process='mysqld'15:16
rhochmuthservice = compute, networking, …, when the entity being monitored corresponds to a a specific openstack component, such as nova-api15:16
rhochmuthnot done yet15:16
jobrsit is for monasca at least15:16
rhochmuththen service = mysql, rabbitmq, …, if it is a "shared" service, unless the shared component isn't really being shared15:17
rhochmuthit is often the case the mysql and rabbitmq are sharess across many openstack services15:17
rhochmuthbut it can be the case that it is deployed 1-to-1 with a service15:17
jobrsagreed, and in that case I believe it is fair that the one configuring the agent is taking care to set the --service parameter on monasca-setup15:17
rhochmuthSo, component should correspond to the specific "process" that is being montiroed15:18
jobrsin any case the plugin cannot possibly know15:18
rhochmuthso, for Nova15:18
rhochmuthservice=compute, component = nova-api, ...15:18
rhochmuthFor "mysql"15:18
rhochmuthservice = mysql15:18
rhochmuthcomponent = mysqld15:18
rhochmuthIn some cases, the values are the same15:19
jobrsthere is a process dimension15:19
jobrsthe plugin cannot know for what service mysql is used15:19
jobrssame with apache15:20
jobrsetc., so plugins should IMHO set dimensions sparingly15:20
rhochmuthBut, it can be overriden15:20
jobrsor at least not override 'service'15:20
jobrsno, it cannot - no longer15:20
jobrsthe order was reversed15:21
rhochmuthgot it15:21
rhochmuthi think we just coded to what worked for our deployment15:21
jobrssame with us :-)15:22
rhochmuthwe ran into a problem because there were plugins that were not setting the service dimension15:22
rhochmuththis created problems in the ui15:22
rhochmuthso, in that case what we wanted was to always supply a service dimension = "uncategorized"15:23
jobrssure, but this can be fixed when configuring the agent, not?15:23
bkleii'm concerned about automatically changing the default dimensions -- if we do that i'd prefer the change be config file driven so old behavior continues to work15:23
jobrsmaybe this belongs to the UI layer? not sure15:23
bkleiwe've run into issues with dimension changes and bloat15:23
jobrsus too, that is a big issue in my opinion15:24
rhochmuthso, my proposal is to restore the old behaviour, and then create an option to enable the new behaviour15:24
rhochmuthi'm trying to get the rbrandt15:24
rhochmuthhe's not arround15:25
jobrsadds complexity15:25
Christian____there is an "old" bug: A metrics graph becomes not to appear when adding/deleting a dimension
openstackLaunchpad bug 1485859 in Monasca "A metrics graph becomes not to appear when adding/deleting a dimension." [Undecided,Triaged]15:25
Christian____that means changing dimensions is not a good idea...15:25
jobrsthat is what I meant with big issue. you cannot force people not to add dimensions, that is what they are good for15:26
rhochmuthwhat we wanted to have happen was to always have a dimension of service=uncategorized15:26
rhochmuthif one wasn't supplied15:26
jobrsto me this looks like a presentation-layer problem15:27
rhochmuthi'm not exactly sure at this point, why that ended up modifying the default behavriou15:27
rhochmuthso, i'll check with rbrandt and come up with a proposal to fix15:28
rhochmuthif that sounds ok15:28
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rhochmuthit isn't a presentation layer problem, btw15:29
rhochmuththe problem occurs when searching for metrics and alarms15:29
rhochmuthwe don't support being able to get metrics and alarms that don't have a supplied dimension15:29
jobrsI was just talking of the specific case of the service dimension15:29
bkleiagreed -- if this is the issue rbak found -- you end up with metrics you can't query for without merging15:30
jobrsother than that I believe it is a bigger issue which will not be solved by the default service domain value15:30
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rhochmuthso, you can't search for  the absencse of a dimension15:30
rhochmuthand there is no way to do that in some databases15:30
rhochmuthlike influxdb15:30
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rhochmuthso, we wanted to supply a default dimension = uncategoried everywhere15:31
rhochmuthbut that broke the original baheviour15:31
jobrsbut it is not just "service"15:31
rhochmuthyes, it applies to any dimension15:32
jobrsso this is what I do not like about the option, it does not really fix the problem (for us)15:32
rhochmuthbut from a ui perspective we usually only group by hostname, service,15:32
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rhochmuthwhy doesn't it work?15:33
jobrswe have other dimensions15:33
jobrse.g. in kubernetes: namespace, ressource_controller, ...15:34
jobrsthe great thing about dimensions is that you can have your own ones15:34
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Christian____Roland: Is the number of dimensions fixed (and should not be changed)? All not used dimensions will have default value "uncategorized"?15:35
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rhochmuthBesides going back to the old behaviour, which doesn't fix the problem I'm trying to address, is there a specific proposal that we can implement15:37
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rhochmuthWe have a problem15:37
rhochmuthI'm just looking for a specific way to resolve at this point that is implementatble15:38
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jobrsunfortunately I am not an influxdb expert15:38
tgraichenbut in your case, can't we just add service=uncategorized in the monasca agent in case the service is not set from the plugin and not via agent config?15:38
rhochmuthok, i'll look into that15:39
rhochmuthi don't have an answer right now15:39
slogan_r_that would imply the db defaults to that value when items added or removed, correct? Is that the case now?15:39
jobrsthe global configuration is overridden by the plugins15:39
rhochmuthbut, if it is possible, we'll try to do that15:40
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jobrsmy proposal would be to make merge-metrics a default15:40
slogan_r_er, added or updated15:40
rhochmuthok, i like that idea15:40
jobrsäh, default15:41
rhochmuthnot sure why we didn't do that, but i'll investigate and try to get back to that15:41
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jobrsso you tell the API which dimensions should be expanded15:41
jobrsand the remaining ones are merged15:41
jobrsthat gives some stability15:42
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jobrsrbaks grafana plugin is exposing this behavior to the user, so it is possible it seems15:42
jobrsif the api would support it, too, then the db-driver could do optimizations to reduce the number of queries (mid-term)15:43
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rhochmuthok, i'll look at the code and work with rbrandt and see what we come up with15:46
rhochmuthsound good?15:46
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jobrssounds great15:46
jobrsthank you15:46
rhochmuthok, thanks15:47
rhochmuthswitching topics15:47
rhochmuth#topic stale alarms15:47
*** openstack changes topic to "stale alarms (Meeting topic: monasca)"15:47
bkleithat's me15:47
rhochmuthsorry times up15:47
rhochmuthjust kidding15:47
bkleianyone else encounter this? :)15:47
bkleiso here's the scenario15:47
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bkleithe overview page in horizon, when tracking vms with alarm defs15:48
rhochmuthwe, this is one of the topi issues we've been looking at15:48
bkleigoes gray after a vm goes away15:48
bkleiand requires a manual alarm delete step15:48
bkleiso we could have a prune process specific to this, but i wonder if there's a better idea/solution15:48
bkleito handle stale stuff in the UI15:48
rhochmuththere is a better way15:49
bkleigood, i'm all ears15:49
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rhochmuthbut first let me say that we are solving this in our helion distributino using a script and cron job15:49
rhochmuththat is a short-term solution15:49
rhochmuthbecause the better solution is harder15:49
bkleiright, and we could do the same here -- we'd welcome you sharing ^^15:49
rhochmuthi'll try and get that script open-sourced somewhere15:50
bkleigracias, and there's discussion about a more elegant solution?15:50
rhochmuththe way we were intending was to use the Events API15:50
bkleimaybe discussion in austin?15:50
rhochmuthSure, we can discuss15:50
bkleiaah, so  lifecycle trigger15:50
bkleii like that15:50
rhochmuththe Events APi woudl receive all VM lifecycle events15:51
bkleithat's clean -- so we can do the cron/script as a workaround till then15:51
rhochmuthand the events engine would have a handler associated with it to delete the alarm, when the VM end event occurs15:51
rhochmuthThe only alternative right now is a cron/script15:52
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rhochmuththe script atually invokes the nova api to determine the VMs that have been deleted15:52
rhochmuthso it is not purely time based15:52
slogan_r_that would work15:52
rhochmuththe problem with the events api/engine is that it is not getting any development time right now15:53
rhochmuthso, it could be a long wait15:53
rhochmuthfor that to be deliever15:53
slogan_r_so, I presume these events events are defined by nova and they are publishing to OSLO?15:53
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slogan_r_s/events events/events/15:53
rhochmuthopenstack notification, VM lifecycle events15:53
rhochmuththere is a wiki that describes them all15:53
rhochmuthbut i dont' have the link15:54
rhochmuthright now15:54
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rhochmuthso, is that enought of a discussion15:55
rhochmuthon that topic15:55
rhochmuthwe are running out of time15:55
rhochmuth#topic multiple metrics15:55
*** openstack changes topic to "multiple metrics (Meeting topic: monasca)"15:55
rhochmuthSo, i posted some code15:55
rhochmuthit isn't complete15:55
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rhochmuthif bklei and rbak could look at it that woudl be good15:55
rhochmuthwhat i would like to do is add a query parameter, "multiple_metrics" or something simialr15:56
bkleiyeah, looks good to me if we add the parm to differentiate behavior15:56
rhochmuthto enable returning multiple metrics in a single measurements or statistics resource15:56
bkleiwe'll definitely be using that15:56
rbakI'll take a look as soon as the meeting is done.15:56
rhochmuththis will probably improve your over all query perofmrance 10X at least15:56
rhochmuthif not more15:57
rhochmuthi'm actually hoping for 100X15:57
rhochmuthi don't think this is possibel for influxb using an in-database query15:57
bkleigonna be freaking awesome -- in vertica land :)15:57
rhochmuthso, please take a look15:57
rhochmuthI think we are out of time for anomaly detection15:58
ho_awayok, next week :-)15:58
rhochmuthsorry ho_away15:58
rhochmuthyou are up first next week15:58
rhochmuthi'll also touch-base with luis15:59
ho_awayyeah, i will send you email to have a meeting15:59
rhochmuthjobrs: will get back to you15:59
bkleithx for hosting rhochmuth!15:59
rhochmuththx ho_away15:59
rhochmuththanks everyone15:59
jobrsthank you, looking forward too multiple metrics, too15:59
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ho_awaythanks Roland15:59
Christian____bye and thx16:00
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar  9 16:00:16 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:00
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bogdando#startmeeting ha_guide17:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar  9 17:00:11 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bogdando. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
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bogdandoanyone around?17:02
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bogdandoanyone around?17:08
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david-lyle#startmeeting horizon20:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar  9 20:00:13 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: horizon)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'horizon'20:00
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david-lyleanyone here for Horizon?20:00
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ducttape_i'm here for the free snacks20:01
TravTi appear to be20:01
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david-lyleok, let's roll20:01
david-lyleWe tagged M-3 last week and are working toward an RC-120:02
david-lyledjango_openstack_auth 2.2.0 was also released last week20:02
jpomeroydid somebody say snacks?20:02
david-lylehere is the list of things for RC-1
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david-lyleonly 1/5 has merged or made any substantial progress since M-3 was tagged20:03
david-lylesubstantial progress being patches landed20:04
david-lylewe have a lot of people coding the things and less reviewing the things20:04
david-lyleif we hope to land these items by next time we meet, the efforts in those columns will need to reverse20:05
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itxakayes please, more reviews less code by the cores would be nice :)20:05
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itxakaeveryone can add code but only cores can approve :O20:05
david-lyleon the positive side, all the bugs targeted for RC-1 are actively being worked20:05
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robcresswellitxaka: Reviews from non-cores are extremely useful.20:06
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david-lylethe other exceptionally odd thing I've seen is patches around linting fixes20:06
r1chardj0n3soh, linting, yes20:06
david-lylethe period between M-3 and the RC is for hardening, and bug fixing not code thrash20:06
TravTthe linting ones i'm all for at the beginning of next cycle, but right now they cause merge conflicts20:07
robcresswellI'd vote for -2ing them.20:07
r1chardj0n3syes, linting can wait until next cycle20:07
doug-fishrobcresswell: turns out you can just do that!20:07
david-lyleit's not that it's not valuable, just not now :)20:07
robcresswelldoug-fish: haha. Feels a little abrupt, thats all :)20:07
r1chardj0n3sand also there's the whole thing about jsdoc :-)20:08
robcresswellAgreed. I sent out an email to that effect. If I remembered to press send.20:08
david-lyleok so please spend some time reviewing the things20:08
david-lyleyeah I think jsdoc can go20:08
* r1chardj0n3s just woke up, sorry, need to get up to speed20:08
robcresswellBasically, everyone should make the RC1 bug list their home screen for the next week :D20:10
robcresswellLI fixes need to be iterated quickly and merged, or we will have to revert. There are blocking bugs iirc.20:10
david-lyle#chair robcresswell20:10
openstackCurrent chairs: david-lyle robcresswell20:10
david-lylemy internet is acting up so adding robcresswell just in case20:11
robcresswellI'm making my way through the RC1 list, so any patch on there *will* get reviewed.20:11
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robcresswellThink we lost dave :p20:12
* matt-borland walks in late20:12
robcresswellThere are no agenda items for today it seems.20:12
david-lyleI may still be here, just laggy20:12
david-lyleI had one more general item20:12
robcresswellGo ahead20:12
david-lylebeyond getting the things out the door20:12
david-lyleThe PTL election cycle starts March 1120:13
david-lyleat least the nomination period20:13
david-lylethen one week later are the elections20:13
david-lyleI'm not going to run20:14
ducttape_david-lyle - thanks for all your work.  you are not the worst PTL out there, you should be proud   ;)20:14
TravTit's been a good run, david-lyle20:14
matt-borlandmany, many thanks :)20:14
doug-fishdavid-lyle: yes, well done!20:15
r1chardj0n3sthanks david-lyle!20:15
bpokornyNice job these years, david-lyle!20:15
david-lyleso if you plan to run the info is posted20:15
tyr_it looks like a really hard job. Nice work david-lyle20:15
* david-lyle finds the link20:15
david-lyleI think the community is ready for not me, and I'm ready for not me, so cheers :)20:15
david-lyleand thanks20:16
TravTplease assure us that you'll still keep working on horizon, though?20:16
david-lylehori what?20:16
rhagartythanks for your leadership... have you "named" a successor?20:16
david-lyleyeah, I'm not going anywhere20:17
ducttape_we name the successor ;)20:17
david-lylerhagarty: that's up to horizon ATCs20:17
krotscheckwhoa, thanks!20:17
david-lyleok, moving on20:17
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david-lyleone last thing DST reminder in the US, next week meeting will be one hour later20:18
* TravT looks forward to being early to something20:18
david-lylerest of the world I have no idea :)20:18
r1chardj0n3sAustralia changes back at the start of April so the meetings change to 10pm and 6am20:19
robcresswellUK doesnt shift for a few weeks yet.20:19
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david-lyleAs robcresswell mentioned before, there are no agenda items20:20
david-lyle#topic Open Discussion20:20
david-lylemy lag is back20:20
david-lyleso trying again20:20
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david-lyleAs robcresswell mentioned before, there are no agenda items20:21
* david-lyle yells at his ISP20:21
krotscheckI'm collecting feedback for any changes needed to eslint-config-openstack before cutting 2.0 as the newton version.20:21
r1chardj0n3sI meant to add agenda items but I was bushed coming back from the bugsmash, sorry20:21
r1chardj0n3sI have an eslint-related change I proposed on openstack-dev (and patch) that I'm happy to defer until N is open but I'd like us to think about20:22
r1chardj0n3sand thankyou to those folks who have thought about it and contributed already20:22
r1chardj0n3s is the mail thread20:23
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r1chardj0n3sI have someone from docs helping look into tooling for this, we'll see where that goes20:23
r1chardj0n3sultimately I see value in us having published docs for the horizon.framework code we've created (at a minimum) which includes API docs and separate prose around that (tutorial, developer guide style)20:24
tsufiev yes, that would be nice20:24
r1chardj0n3sand it'd be great if that could be published as part of our existing docs20:24
robcresswellAbsolutely agreed on the framework documentation. Its good for plugins and any newcomers to Horizon.20:25
r1chardj0n3sso I would just say that people might want to hold off "fixing" jsdoc until we settle on our doc syntax20:25
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r1chardj0n3s(noting that a lot of the jsdoc "fixes" are actually unnecessary in ngdoc, which is what most of the docs have been written for)20:26
r1chardj0n3sso there's potentially a lot of wasted effort there, sorry20:26
itxakaSo we would leave the checking to the jsdoc generator then?20:26
r1chardj0n3sthat would be the plan, yes20:27
itxakabut that is not in place and its something that we cant enfornce rigth now, having eslint check for that meanwhile gives us a way to enforce it _now_20:27
krotscheckDo they have no value whatsoever in an ngdoc world?20:27
r1chardj0n3sitxaka: but eslint is enforcing things that we don't even know we want enforced, which makes no sense to me :-)20:28
itxakaah, I cant talk about that becuase I have no idea about this20:28
r1chardj0n3skrotscheck: *some* jsdoc constructs do, but ngdoc diverts (around things like @returns and others)20:28
itxakaI know that when looking at the js code I get happy the more comments I see before a function/class/controller20:28
krotscheckr1chardj0n3s: This seems to disagree with that statement ->
r1chardj0n3syes :-)20:28
krotscheck(specifically with reference to @returns)20:29
r1chardj0n3skrotscheck: don't even start with me on the "recommendations" from the angular world20:29
r1chardj0n3stheir recommended tool *does not work* ... let me rant about that in a non-meeting time :-)20:29
krotscheckr1chardj0n3s: Uh-oh, I hear an opinion coming!20:29
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robcresswellWe have enough of those around here20:29
r1chardj0n3sI shan't take up valuable meeting time on that20:29
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robcresswellopinions I mean20:30
TravTr1chardj0n3s opinions are more entertaining in person20:30
r1chardj0n3sbecause way more importantly, I would very much like everyone to think on
krotscheckr1chardj0n3s: so...
r1chardj0n3sI know the xstatic packaging thing is a very hard problem20:30
r1chardj0n3sbut we need some solution for this or we're never going to update our JS/CSS/fonts ever again :/20:31
david-lylethe app-catalog threw a wrench into things20:31
r1chardj0n3ssomething that changed that folks might not be aware of is the addition of upper-constraints recently20:31
david-lylenow I'm fresh out of ideas20:32
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r1chardj0n3sthat means that we can break the gate when we try to update xstatic20:32
r1chardj0n3shence that wall of text email trying to come up with a solution20:32
r1chardj0n3sand as david-lyle says, then along came app-catalog20:32
krotscheckr1chardj0n3s: Well, for what it's worth, I have an xstatic-packaging job for pure JS projects on my roadmap for newton.20:32
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krotscheckThat only helps with packages that we control though, the repackaged ones become problematic.20:32
r1chardj0n3skrotscheck: the *packaging* of xstatic is a solved problem - there are patches in play to solve that20:32
david-lyleour xstatic is all repackaged20:33
r1chardj0n3sit's the problem specifically mentioned in that email I reference that is not solved and is very difficult to solve20:33
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krotscheckr1chardj0n3s: I get that. Please don't patronize me.20:33
r1chardj0n3sI should mention that: during the bugsmash this week myself and my team put forward patches to openstack-infra and to openstack-releases to enable automated release of xstatic through the proper channels again20:34
r1chardj0n3skrotscheck: I wasn't patronizing you, I was making sure you were aware of which problem I was talking about20:34
david-lyler1chardj0n3s: even the 4 . versions ?20:34
r1chardj0n3sand that you weren't duplicating effort20:34
david-lyleerr 3 .'s20:34
r1chardj0n3sdavid-lyle: yes20:34
robcresswellI need to catch up on the email thread.20:35
robcresswellThis sounds like something we should run through at the summit too, as long as people are willing to familiarise themselves beforehand. I don't know that I have the time to help figure this out in the middle of RC.20:36
robcresswellBut thats just me :)20:36
r1chardj0n3sFWIW the patch to update our docs for *generating* xstatic packages is here
r1chardj0n3sand that links to the proposed patch to jenkins for handling things on that side20:37
krotscheckSo much headache over xstatic.20:37
r1chardj0n3sbut not the patch on the openstack-releases side since that's not a depdendent change, but more of a follow on20:37
r1chardj0n3splease feel free to ask questions about any aspects of the mail I mention that are confusing20:38
r1chardj0n3sthere's a bunch of confusion in openstack land about upper-constraints20:38
r1chardj0n3s(which *should* be called "pinned-constraints" but that ship sailed)20:39
david-lyleI don't think you need to qualify the confusion20:39
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david-lyleit's general20:39
TravTr1chardj0n3s: i've only read the first message of the thread20:39
TravTbut can't we just put up the upper constraints fix and the horizon fix, approve horizon fix, but put the Depends-On flag for cross repo merges20:40
TravTit would minimize breakage time20:40
r1chardj0n3syou can't merge the horizon fix before the upper constraints fix unless the horizon fix is backward compatible, which is solution 120:41
r1chardj0n3sbecause the horizon fix will be running against the old version20:41
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r1chardj0n3sso even with that, there will be that period of time between the horizon and constraints patches landing where things will break20:42
krotscheckTravT: That breaks down with requirements, because a req has to merge, then the update-bot has to propose the fix to horizon.20:42
r1chardj0n3seven with the depends-on20:42
TravTthe bot doesn't have to propose them20:42
TravTwe can propsoe them20:42
TravTand approve them20:43
krotscheckTravT: That'll cause the incompatible requirements job to fail, no?20:43
r1chardj0n3sTravT: the issue is the upper-constraints change20:43
TravTall i'm saying is this might be a way to minimize breakage time20:43
r1chardj0n3supper-constraints specifies the *precise* version of xstatic-angular that Horizin uses in integrated tests20:43
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r1chardj0n3sso if Horizon and constraints land at different times (as in the diagram in the email) then horizon will break if it's not compatible with old and new versions in constraints20:44
r1chardj0n3snote that I also have a patch up for using upper-constraints in our tox envs
krotscheck...just cheking real quick - the app catalog, aren't they a horizon plugin, and can therefore inherit their dependencies from horizon?20:45
david-lylekrotscheck: no20:45
r1chardj0n3sthis would bring our other testing in line with the integrated testing20:45
david-lylenot a plugin20:45
david-lylethere is a plugin20:45
TravTwhat are they?20:45
david-lylebut there's also a community web site not running on horizon20:45
r1chardj0n3sTravT: ^20:46
TravTthx, r1chardj0n3s i know about them... just don't know what david means20:46
TravTi actually am wearing their t-shirt as we speak...20:46
TravTfrom a summit or two ago20:46
r1chardj0n3syeah, they're very separate from Horizon20:46
david-lylethey have 2 uis20:46
TravTpretty comfy i must say20:47
david-lyleone plugin and one not20:47
krotscheckdavid-lyle: Ok, so, the plugin can inherit from horizon, and isn't part of the integrated release, so we don't need to worry about it?20:47
david-lylebut they apparently want to share code20:47
krotscheckAh, that's the issue.20:47
david-lyleand xstatic packages, IIUC20:47
david-lylebut, they are a snowflake that should probably just manage it's own xstatic dependencies20:48
david-lyleit's not as if we're removing releases20:48
TravTwell, i think all plugins should assert, even document, their horizon release compatibility level20:48
david-lylethat probably requires further conversation20:48
krotscheckOk, so the "Along came app-catalog" point that supposedly threw a wrench into everything isn't actually an issue.20:48
krotscheck(or is probably not an issue)20:49
david-lyleplugins shouldn't be the issue20:49
robcresswellThats the point though right, one of their UIs isnt a plugin but still wants to use xstatic packages?20:49
TravThorizon is just an aggregate library to them20:49
robcresswellPlugins will always rely on Horizon so they are a non-issue as far as I can tell20:49
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krotscheckrobcresswell: Yeah, but it's a UI that's not part of the integrated release. i.e. unlikely to ever be part of an ubuntu package.20:49
r1chardj0n3sI think having them manage their own xstatic constraints is reasonable --- unless someone ever decided to install Horizon and app-catalog on the same debian/redhat system :-(20:49
r1chardj0n3sglobal dependencies, ugh20:50
robcresswellkrotscheck: Ah. So a very lightweight spanner in the works.20:50
david-lyler1chardj0n3s: woe be to them20:50
r1chardj0n3spersonally, I think the option of Horizon specifying its own constraints is still the only workable one20:51
david-lyleme too20:51
r1chardj0n3seven though.... y'know... ATOMIC ZUUL20:51
r1chardj0n3slifeless was particularly fond of that solution ;-)20:51
* krotscheck felt like he contributed!20:51
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r1chardj0n3sbut also very supportive of the local constraints20:51
TravTi think horizon should specify its constraints and plugins should be tagged or at least documented along with the releases of horizon.20:51
tsufievLol, we cannot even reliably use depends-on for libs20:52
r1chardj0n3stsufiev: so that means a bug in depends-on that infra knows they should fix :-)20:52
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r1chardj0n3sthey're aware of some gaps in that20:52
TravTbecause horizon has APIs as well20:52
tsufievr1chardj0n3s: they said i'm welcomed to contribute :)20:52
TravTevery line of code is apparently an API in horizon20:52
r1chardj0n3sI'm sure you are :-)20:52
krotscheckTravT: I hear you can copyright those.20:53
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TravTso this whole discussion on external library version dependencies is no different than a plugin being dependent on a version of horizon20:53
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TravThorizon is just an aggregate version20:54
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r1chardj0n3sTravT: with the big exception that plugins aren't in the integrated tests so won't break the gate when we release a new xstatic :-)20:54
TravTeither you work with it and all of its dependencies or you don't20:54
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TravTthis is no different than the situation today if we change something in horizon20:55
TravTwe don't know who it affects20:55
r1chardj0n3sTravT: don't we have most of the integrated tests in our test suite?20:55
r1chardj0n3sgrenade, tempest, horizon-integrated?20:55
TravTdo we test all of the horizon plugins in there?20:56
r1chardj0n3sthose are not in the integrated test suite20:56
TravTmy point20:56
r1chardj0n3syes, but20:56
r1chardj0n3sthe whole point of that email I wrote is that an xstatic release can break the gate20:56
r1chardj0n3sa plugin might break, but it won't break the gate20:56
krotscheckTravT: If someone downstream wants to notify the team that a change breaks their world, there's ways to spin up their own voting-or-non infra systems to provide that feedback.20:56
r1chardj0n3sso it's ok if a plugin breaks for a while20:56
TravTtrue point there r1chardj0n3s20:56
r1chardj0n3sbut we can't block all of OpenStack20:57
krotscheckThe only place where you should gate on plugins is if the plugin is part of the integrated release.20:57
r1chardj0n3sand yes, we should increase coverage of plugin testing (david-lyle is on that, I believe ;-)20:57
TravTso, in other words, if zuul could just have a commit group20:57
TravTeither all members of group pass or all don't20:57
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david-lyler1chardj0n3s: from which view point?20:58
r1chardj0n3sif zuul could do atomic commits across multiple repos, the problem would go away ATOMIC ZUUL20:58
david-lyleplugins test up, us testing down doesn't really make sense20:58
r1chardj0n3sdavid-lyle: wanting it? :-)20:58
tsufievdavid-lyle: +120:58
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david-lylewe have the same problem with python-*client changes20:59
david-lylebut requiring say keystone client to test all consumers per change won't work20:59
r1chardj0n3soh, on that20:59
r1chardj0n3sso I also have on my TODO now to add some more of Horizon's tests to the jobs that test constraints changes21:00
r1chardj0n3sso that constraints changes will have much better coverage of whether Horizon might break21:00
r1chardj0n3swhich would probably have picked up that heatclient snafu21:00
lhchengOSC pulls in all plugin and do a sanity check that the command namespaces are all unique, perhaps we can do something similar21:01
david-lyletime's up. Thanks everyone and please review the RC-1 items21:01
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