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| alagalah | Good morning | 13:54 |
|---|---|---|
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| sarob | Training-manuals meeting is cancelled for today | 13:54 |
| alagalah | Oh | 13:55 |
| sarob | Colin and I are going to be offline | 13:55 |
| sarob | If I had planned better I would have handed it off | 13:55 |
| sarob | If want alagalah discuss with Pranav and others | 13:57 |
| sarob | Status and such | 13:57 |
| sarob | Gotta go | 13:58 |
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| dguitarbite1 | hello | 14:05 |
| alagalah | Hi there | 14:05 |
| dguitarbite1 | if you guys have anything to discuss, or have any doubts ping me | 14:05 |
| dguitarbite1 | i should be online for next 20 mins or so | 14:05 |
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| alagalah | I think we are ok, just did a pull going to look for the RST -> XML script | 14:08 |
| dguitarbite1 | k | 14:09 |
| dguitarbite1 | I dont think Sarob has open sourced the code yet | 14:09 |
| dguitarbite1 | wait for it | 14:09 |
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| alagalah | ah no worries | 14:11 |
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| SpamapS | o/ | 19:00 |
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| marios | hi | 19:01 |
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| rpodolyaka1 | o/ | 19:01 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:01 |
| jistr | hi | 19:01 |
| tzumainn | hiya | 19:01 |
| lsmola_ | o/ | 19:01 |
| dkehn | hi | 19:01 |
| GheRivero | o/ | 19:01 |
| derekh | yo | 19:01 |
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| lifeless | morning | 19:01 |
| lifeless | #startmeeting tripleo | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 15 19:01:48 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is lifeless. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tripleo)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tripleo' | 19:01 |
| lifeless | #topic agenda | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: tripleo)" | 19:02 | |
| lifeless | bugs | 19:02 |
| lifeless | reviews | 19:02 |
| lifeless | Projects needing releases | 19:02 |
| lifeless | CD Cloud status | 19:02 |
| lifeless | CI virtualized testing progress | 19:02 |
| lifeless | Discuss latest comments on LXC+ISCSI bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxc/+bug/1226855 | 19:02 |
| lifeless | Insert one-off agenda items here | 19:02 |
| lifeless | MVP1 retrospective TripleO/TripleOCloud/MVP1Retrospective | 19:02 |
| lifeless | MVP2 retrospective TripleO/TripleOCloud/MVP2Retrospective | 19:02 |
| lifeless | open discussion | 19:02 |
| lifeless | lots of topics today, I'm going to be moving fast, so if you have something to add in a section,, don't wait | 19:02 |
| lifeless | #topic bugs | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: tripleo)" | 19:02 | |
| lifeless | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/tripleo/ | 19:02 |
| lifeless | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/diskimage-builder/ | 19:02 |
| lifeless | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/os-refresh-config | 19:02 |
| lifeless | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/os-apply-config | 19:02 |
| lifeless | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/os-collect-config | 19:02 |
| lifeless | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/tuskar | 19:02 |
| lifeless | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/tuskar-ui | 19:02 |
| lifeless | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-tuskarclient | 19:02 |
| SpamapS | only 1 critical that I see | 19:03 |
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| SpamapS | and that one is fix committed | 19:04 |
| lifeless | bunch of untriaged on tripleo. | 19:04 |
| lifeless | And the sad thing is they were filed by ATC | 19:04 |
| lifeless | s | 19:04 |
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| lifeless | Any thoughts on how we can get folk to file bugs triaged ? | 19:05 |
| derekh | so should I be able to triage, I'm guessing there should be a edit button beside importance | 19:05 |
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| Ng | do we necessarily want that? Some people think it's better to capture a bug in any state than hold off from capturing it because it's not fleshed out enough to be triaged | 19:06 |
| lifeless | derekh: join ~tripleo on Launchpad, and then you can. And when you file there is an 'other settings' or 'more' or something which lets you set during creation. | 19:06 |
| lifeless | Ng: triaged doesn't imply fleshed out. | 19:06 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: I believe we can control the "what to put in the bug" message and the "thanks for filing a bug" message, so we can remind people to self-triage in there. | 19:06 |
| derekh | lifeless: ahh that explains it | 19:06 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: good idea | 19:06 |
| SpamapS | I'll look at doing that right now | 19:07 |
| lifeless | #action SpamapS to customise the reporting guidelines to encourage self triage | 19:07 |
| Ng | lifeless: shouldn't it mean that we at least understand enough about the bug to be able to decide its priority and start fixing it? | 19:07 |
| lifeless | Ng: yes, no in order. | 19:07 |
| Ng | hmm, ok. not how I've used Triaged in the past, but I'm not opposed to it having that meaning :) | 19:07 |
| Ng | (for tripleo at least :) | 19:08 |
| lifeless | Ng: think of it in the original context | 19:08 |
| lifeless | Ng: will the patient die? | 19:08 |
| * Ng nods | 19:08 | |
| lifeless | Ng: quick snap assessment. Then move on. | 19:08 |
| derekh | "Only the team's administrators can invite a user to be a member" | 19:08 |
| lifeless | We can and will tune bugs further, but having them competely uncategorised just means that I end up triaging them. | 19:08 |
| lifeless | derekh: nuts, let me fix that | 19:08 |
| lifeless | set to moderated | 19:09 |
| lifeless | derekh: ^ | 19:09 |
| * derekh joins ~tripleo | 19:10 | |
| * rpodolyaka1 too | 19:10 | |
| lifeless | Ng: the consequence of setting a high bar for triage is that you get a massive pool of bugs noone is willing to touch because they are clear/complete/reproducable enough, but some may well be affecting everybody | 19:10 |
| lifeless | Ng: clearing up a bug enough to work on it is something you only want to do *when you want to work on it* | 19:11 |
| lifeless | and unless you are running short of bugs, thats never the problem. The problem is 'which bugs are most useful to fix' :) | 19:11 |
| Ng | fair points, all | 19:11 |
| *** markwash has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 19:11 | |
| lifeless | #action lifeless to summarise this + team joining and mail to the list | 19:13 |
| lifeless | #topic reviews | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "reviews (Meeting topic: tripleo)" | 19:13 | |
| lifeless | http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/tripleo-openreviews.html | 19:13 |
| lifeless | http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/tripleo-reviewers-30.txt | 19:13 |
| lifeless | http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/tripleo-reviewers-90.txt | 19:13 |
| *** demorris has quit IRC | 19:14 | |
| lifeless | Median wait time: 1 days, 0 hours, 21 minutes | 19:14 |
| lifeless | 3rd quartile wait time: 3 days, 11 hours, 41 minutes | 19:14 |
| lifeless | We're losing ground | 19:15 |
| lifeless | thats under | 19:15 |
| lifeless | Stats since the last revision without -1 or -2 (ignoring jenkins): | 19:15 |
| *** sarob has quit IRC | 19:15 | |
| lifeless | 19:15 | |
| lifeless | Longest waiting reviews (based on oldest rev without nack, ignoring jenkins): | 19:15 |
| lifeless | 7 days, 12 hours, 29 minutes https://review.openstack.org/50010 (Fix a couple of default config values) | 19:15 |
| *** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 19:15 | |
| SpamapS | lifeless: the MVP push has narrowed our review focus and we're glossing over rather than driving to 0 I think. | 19:16 |
| lifeless | Is everyone in core using the link on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TripleO#Review_team ? | 19:16 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: most of the tuskar oriented folk are -core | 19:16 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: and that 7 days one hasn't been +2'd or -1'd ; I've +2'd it. | 19:17 |
| Ng | I am using the link, but I am still ignoring tuskar reviews because I still haven't poked at it | 19:17 |
| lifeless | Ng: can I suggest you give +1's and -1's at least? | 19:17 |
| SpamapS | Was not using the link, but it is not far off rom my "watched changes" minus heat. | 19:17 |
| Ng | lifeless: you can, I will do so | 19:17 |
| lsmola_ | I am reviewing only tuskar, for now | 19:18 |
| Ng | lifeless: if you were to knock https://review.openstack.org/#/c/50431/2 in the affirmatory, that would clear two of our oldest reviews :) | 19:18 |
| lifeless | so, SpamapS you raise an interesting point, at least for the folk doing tripleo-cd mvp's. | 19:18 |
| lifeless | which is do we keep driving reviews to 0 ? | 19:18 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: I think we should. The kanban provides focus, but it doesn't replace our responsibility for things we've already shipped, or for team maintenance and growth | 19:19 |
| SpamapS | I think we should still devote time to it. We just may not devote as much time to it. | 19:19 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: so, when we sketched this, we said | 19:20 |
| lifeless | unblock bottlenecks first, then unblock everyone else. | 19:20 |
| lifeless | folk are still self directed - it's open source - but clear | 19:20 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: I think doing reviews counts as unblocking everyone else | 19:20 |
| *** sarob has quit IRC | 19:20 | |
| lifeless | SpamapS: so my personal view on this is that we should review all firedrill reviews first | 19:20 |
| lifeless | then all CD related reviews | 19:20 |
| lifeless | then all reviews in the project | 19:20 |
| lifeless | with drive-to-0 mentality | 19:21 |
| SpamapS | +1 from me on that plan | 19:21 |
| lifeless | lsmola_: I think it's very important that tuskar folk really understand whats going on in the rest of tripleo - whats holding you back from reviewing across the full set of projects? | 19:21 |
| derekh | I agree with the order, just worry we've been a little too aggressive causing regression to creep in | 19:21 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: It means less personal bandwidth for CD/MVP contributions, but more team bandwidth. | 19:22 |
| SpamapS | derekh: agreed on that as well, though I think the regressions have been contained _mostly_ to tripleo-incubator | 19:22 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: If the team as a whole doesn't dig in and share review load, then we can revisit this. | 19:22 |
| lsmola_ | lifeless, well I have been trying devtest last two weeks, so now I am still gaining confidence :-) | 19:22 |
| slagle | i'm fine with the review priority, as, i still feel the average review time is pretty good | 19:23 |
| SpamapS | derekh: and overall, we have a more tested solution because we have been aggressive and pushed to have a real live cloud deploying all the time. | 19:23 |
| slagle | *proposed review priority, i mean | 19:23 |
| lsmola_ | lifeless, most of us will be testing stuff we are preparing for hongkong in like next 3 weeks, so we might not have many new patches or reviews | 19:24 |
| lifeless | derekh: it's true, there have been regressions. as we work down the stack towards CI, I think that will get solved | 19:24 |
| derekh | SpamapS: yup true but we've left behind the seed and undercloud , so were only catching things on the top of the stack (which is better then nothing) | 19:24 |
| lifeless | lsmola_: thats fine, but reviewers have to scale as contributors do | 19:24 |
| derekh | yup more CI will solve the problem | 19:25 |
| lifeless | lsmola_: if you only review a thin slice, the contribution becomes asymmetric. | 19:25 |
| *** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 19:25 | |
| lifeless | lsmola_: an explicit goal for me is to see as many of tuskar folk remain tripleo-core as possible, but that means: | 19:25 |
| SpamapS | derekh: yeah, we went from a broad comprehensive defense strategy to a tactical surgical strike strategy. :) | 19:26 |
| lifeless | - contributing as -core in a sustained period (e.g. a review a day minimum) | 19:26 |
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| lifeless | - and learning about the other components (by participating in reviews) | 19:26 |
| lsmola_ | lifeless, true that, though right now I could do just code review, so checking good programming style, cause I don know how to test most of the stuff, but I am getting into it | 19:26 |
| * jistr will try to lose flaps on eyes focused towards tuskarclient and do reviews elsewhere too | 19:26 | |
| jistr | lsmola_: yeah that's my concern too. I don't know how to test the other stuff properly. | 19:27 |
| jistr | but i'll try to start at least with +/-1 | 19:27 |
| lifeless | lsmola_: please do - even if you can only comment on surface aspects you'll see a) other reviewers comments and b) the code and problems it's trying to solve. | 19:27 |
| bnemec_ | There's an interesting parallel to the Hyper-V Nova discussion here. | 19:27 |
| *** bnemec_ is now known as bnemec | 19:27 | |
| tzumainn | jistr, that's my concern as well - and coming from a tuskar-ui background, so far my interactions have mostly been limited to tuskar-ui/tuskar | 19:28 |
| bnemec | Narrow review focus vs. the project as a whole. | 19:28 |
| *** demorris has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 19:28 | |
| lsmola_ | lifeless, ok then | 19:28 |
| lifeless | bnemec: yes, there is. | 19:28 |
| SpamapS | We had something similar in Heat too with rackspace specific resource plugins. | 19:29 |
| lifeless | however we're at least one OOM less code to deal with in direct terms. | 19:29 |
| bnemec | Yeah, absolutely. And review turnaround in tripleo seems to be much faster IME. | 19:29 |
| lifeless | bnemec: thats deliberate :). | 19:30 |
| bnemec | Which addresses a lot of the complains the hyperv people have. | 19:30 |
| bnemec | *complaints | 19:30 |
| lifeless | bnemec: review turnaround is crucial, I think nova needs to fix that, but I don't have a trivial 'do X' to fix it. | 19:30 |
| lifeless | anyhow... | 19:30 |
| lifeless | #action lifeless to summarise review meta to the list as well | 19:30 |
| lifeless | #topic Projects needing releases | 19:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Projects needing releases (Meeting topic: tripleo)" | 19:31 | |
| lifeless | SpamapS: you were going to do releases of $everything; I'm guessing the MVP work sidetracked that? | 19:32 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: and my own scatter brain. | 19:32 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: will put it higher on the list | 19:32 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: how about we ask someone not visibly tackling the MVP work to do it? | 19:33 |
| lifeless | do we have a volunteer? Goal is to a) make sure all projects other than -incubator are correctly configured in infra/config + their own code to /do/ releases. | 19:33 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: That would not bother me, but I am not worried that I won't complete the task. | 19:33 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: you're a bottleneck on heat. | 19:34 |
| SpamapS | I know | 19:34 |
| *** jog0 has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 19:34 | |
| lifeless | goal b) is then to do a release of everything pending commits | 19:34 |
| SpamapS | so yeah seems to make more sense to take tasks away from me | 19:34 |
| Ng | I'm happy to look at release stuff. I'll need some handholding or docs, having not done any openstack releases before | 19:34 |
| lifeless | Ng: ok | 19:34 |
| SpamapS | Ng: mordred and clarkb can get you through it. | 19:34 |
| mordred | aroo? | 19:34 |
| lifeless | #action Ng to ensure all non-incubator projects can release and get a release done of any which have unreleased code. | 19:35 |
| lifeless | #topic CD Cloud status | 19:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CD Cloud status (Meeting topic: tripleo)" | 19:35 | |
| mordred | Ng: make sure you have a gpg key | 19:35 |
| lifeless | We're now deploying a publically accessible cloud with admins and users setup. | 19:35 |
| lifeless | mordred: Ng: -> -infra please | 19:35 |
| lifeless | It's deploying quite reliably; < 3% failure, and AFAIK we manually caused all of those. | 19:36 |
| lifeless | So this is big! | 19:36 |
| jog0 | lifeless: well we don't actually know if what we deploy works fully do we? | 19:37 |
| lifeless | We're now working on preserving state (with downtime) so that folk don't have to reupload images etc. | 19:37 |
| jog0 | aka no tempest yet | 19:37 |
| lifeless | jog0: we spawn a VM and assign a floating IP | 19:37 |
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| lifeless | jog0: thats not perfect, but pretty indicative. | 19:37 |
| * derekh is working on tempest, got side tracted, will refocus again | 19:38 | |
| lifeless | if you're a TripleO contributor, please do get your accounts setup | 19:38 |
| jog0 | lifeless: nice didn't know we were running that | 19:38 |
| lifeless | see https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TripleO/TripleOCloud for instructions | 19:38 |
| lifeless | jog0: end of devtest_overcloud.sh :) | 19:38 |
| lifeless | #topic CI virtualized testing progress | 19:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI virtualized testing progress (Meeting topic: tripleo)" | 19:38 | |
| lifeless | pleia2: is the lxc bug thing a stale subtopic ? | 19:39 |
| pleia2 | lifeless: it is, I'll remove it | 19:39 |
| lifeless | ok, so how goes it ? | 19:39 |
| pleia2 | I have a local nodepool running now to debug the issues we ran into last week with iteration 1 | 19:39 |
| pleia2 | so hopefully that will be sorted soon so we can get that completed | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tripleo-test-cluster | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | for reference | 19:40 |
| lifeless | cool | 19:40 |
| lifeless | how is iteration two shaping up? | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | and based on discussion with lifeless last week I have some preliminary work done on iteration 2, but nothing shareable yet | 19:40 |
| *** hemanth has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 19:41 | |
| lifeless | ok, cool. | 19:41 |
| lifeless | #topic MVP1 retrospective TripleO/TripleOCloud/MVP1Retrospective | 19:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MVP1 retrospective TripleO/TripleOCloud/MVP1Retrospective (Meeting topic: tripleo)" | 19:41 | |
| lifeless | http://finding-marbles.com/retr-o-mat/what-is-a-retrospective/ if you aren't aware of retrospectives | 19:41 |
| lifeless | The goal here is to gather a shared pool of information about what happened during MVP1 | 19:42 |
| lifeless | and from that jointly decide what to do to make things better | 19:42 |
| lifeless | so - | 19:42 |
| lifeless | What do you guys think went well ? Both outcomes and just actions | 19:42 |
| SpamapS | I think we learned a lot. | 19:43 |
| lifeless | this is brainstorm mode, so please no critique of what people say | 19:43 |
| SpamapS | So if an MVP is supposed to teach you, then it was a success in that light. | 19:43 |
| lifeless | cool | 19:43 |
| jog0 | I thought we did a good job on firedrills | 19:44 |
| lifeless | I think we delivered very quickly, it's immensely cool, only a week into the experiment, to have a cloud folk can use, deployed using our tooling | 19:44 |
| SpamapS | specifically we learned that the tools we have built around the core work as expected on a real network | 19:44 |
| lifeless | jog0: anything specific that stood out about the firedrills ? | 19:45 |
| jog0 | lifeless: we fixed them fairly quickly | 19:45 |
| jog0 | and all helped out | 19:45 |
| lifeless | ok | 19:45 |
| lifeless | What went poorly. Both outcomes and actions | 19:46 |
| lifeless | ? | 19:46 |
| derekh | define firedrill, cd-overcloud not working ? | 19:46 |
| SpamapS | I think we also learned how to be a little more continuous in our own development.. handing things off.. communicating across sunsets.. etc. | 19:46 |
| lifeless | derekh: a regression in anything we've delivered - | 19:46 |
| lifeless | derekh: and are maintaining | 19:46 |
| *** SergeyLukjanov is now known as _SergeyLukjanov | 19:46 | |
| jog0 | SpamapS: the sun never sets on TripleO development | 19:47 |
| lifeless | I think we need a list of those things at some point | 19:47 |
| jog0 | lifeless: ++ | 19:47 |
| *** _SergeyLukjanov has quit IRC | 19:47 | |
| derekh | so I guess I learned I need to file more bugs, as far as I know there are 2 reason devtest is currently busted, | 19:47 |
| derekh | I guess a critical bug would speed up reviews | 19:47 |
| lifeless | so one thing that went poorly is that we regressed devtest | 19:48 |
| lifeless | and seemed to ignore toci | 19:48 |
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| derekh | yup, toci have been failing since yesterday http://54.228.118.193/toci/ | 19:49 |
| lifeless | I think we spent a lot of time fiddling directly on the cloud | 19:49 |
| lifeless | rather than landing reviews to do things | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | derekh: do we track bugs for toci in the tripleo project? | 19:50 |
| lifeless | at one point there were 15 or some commits live on the cloud that hadn't been reviewed. | 19:50 |
| derekh | SpamapS: nope we don't | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: thats interesting. From my perspective we did a good job of making sure things were at least in reviews while fiddling. I never felt that the backlog got out of hand. | 19:50 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: we want CICD, which means all deploys in prod are from trunk, not from ahead-of-trunk | 19:51 |
| SpamapS | derekh: Ok, because I was going to suggest that toci grow some instructions on how to debug failures. I see the fails but I don't always know what failed or how to tell. | 19:51 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: we're cheating | 19:51 |
| derekh | but its usually a regression in one of the other projects that causes the failur | 19:51 |
| Ng | fwiw I deliberately did very little directly on the CD itself and focussed very hard on getting as much reviewing done as I could, mainyl because lifeless was spitting dozens of the things out each day | 19:51 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: doh. | 19:51 |
| lifeless | ok, lets switch to 'what can we do better' now | 19:51 |
| derekh | SpamapS: I'll put something together | 19:51 |
| lifeless | Ng: thank you:) | 19:52 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: so that suggests that we need to have a playground for developers so they aren't tempted to fiddle on live. | 19:52 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: no, you misunderstand | 19:52 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: reviews need to be down to 15-20m latency | 19:52 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: to keep the velocity up | 19:52 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: well, maybe a playground would be good too! | 19:53 |
| * SpamapS will have to revisit his expectations so 15-20m latency gets out of the "not likely to succeed" bucket in his head. | 19:53 | |
| lifeless | SpamapS: but e.g. I deployed a test node without interfering with cd-overcloud to test things. | 19:53 |
| jog0 | lifeless: where does gating fit in this ? | 19:53 |
| lifeless | jog0: gating helps avoid regressions | 19:53 |
| lifeless | so things to change | 19:53 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: there's no way to test turning file injection off without breaking the cloud and/or having a second cloud. | 19:53 |
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| lifeless | SpamapS: right, fortunately you can deploy a second undercloud with the first | 19:54 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: and now we're using neutron the dhcp won't fight. | 19:54 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: however! I'm not whinging about that sort of explicit manual test | 19:54 |
| SpamapS | sure, it sounds like we just need to chop off a few machines for things like that. | 19:54 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: I'm talking about the system sitting there running with 'review -d X' mode | 19:54 |
| jog0 | lifeless: anyway we can gate devtest? that would act like a playground for devs | 19:55 |
| jog0 | push a patch runs in a sandbox and logs are collected | 19:55 |
| lifeless | jog0: pleia2 is working up to that. | 19:55 |
| jog0 | just like infra | 19:55 |
| jog0 | lifeless: woot | 19:55 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: yeah, with 7 people (is that right?) spread out by many hours of timezone, we're not going to get 15-20m latency on such things. Something would have to change. | 19:55 |
| lifeless | so one thing we could do is say CI is a much higher priority, and do that before stateful. | 19:55 |
| pleia2 | turns out infra needs some tweaking each time we add a new provider :) | 19:55 |
| jog0 | I think thats a good way to remve the need for human access | 19:55 |
| lifeless | jog0: I think it's important, but not sufficient | 19:56 |
| lifeless | jog0: the thing is that if there is a lot of inventory, people stop collaborating. | 19:56 |
| lifeless | jog0: the place people collaborate is the shared code - what's in trunk. | 19:56 |
| lifeless | jog0: I'm not saying where they *should*, but where they *do*, by observation. | 19:56 |
| lifeless | so - brainstorm time | 19:57 |
| jog0 | lifeless: I am not sure if I follow | 19:57 |
| lifeless | suggestions - one liners - for doing things better over the next week | 19:57 |
| SpamapS | So this is all good information. I'm struggling to see how any of it will help us to keep velocity up without cherry-pick cheating. | 19:57 |
| jog0 | SpamapS: ++ | 19:58 |
| lifeless | change CD related reviews to only needing two +2's, not 'two +2's from non-the-author' | 19:58 |
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| SpamapS | I also don't think even 0 latency would enable "I need to screw with X for a while to see how it works." | 19:58 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: like I said, I'm fine with *that* | 19:59 |
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| lifeless | SpamapS: I'm not talking about removing sysadmin access, I'm talking about making the standard loop 'propose a review, get it landed, it deploys automatically' | 19:59 |
| SpamapS | I do agree that lower latency CD reviews will make us all more comfortable running in a mode where logging into the prod undercloud is basically seen as a massive team failure. | 20:00 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: which means that everyone can /see/ whats running at any point in time, reducing hidden state | 20:00 |
| *** ruhe has quit IRC | 20:00 | |
| Ng | I'd be ok with CD related reviews allowing a +2 from the author, although ideally with a "I'm +2ing this because I just deployed it and it works" ;) | 20:00 |
| SpamapS | we have hit EOMeeting tho | 20:00 |
| lifeless | we're right on running out of time | 20:00 |
| jog0 | lifeless: it sounds like you are saying that instead of doing: try code on metal, merge, deploy trunk, we do merge, deploy trunk | 20:00 |
| lifeless | but while we have folk here lets try to get this answered | 20:01 |
| SpamapS | So I suggest we discuss on the ML and in IRC over the next few days. | 20:01 |
| lifeless | there isn't anyone after us. | 20:02 |
| jog0 | as we get further along in our CD cloud story, I asusme we will soon get to the point where we do not want to risk any potentailly breaking changes from landing | 20:02 |
| lifeless | jog0: thats the CI value proposition, yes. | 20:02 |
| lifeless | jog0: but also the small-changes, no inventory aspect. | 20:02 |
| jog0 | define inventory | 20:03 |
| lifeless | jog0: and having heat self detect and rollback and things like that | 20:03 |
| lifeless | jog0: code that is written but not delivered. | 20:03 |
| lifeless | jog0: e.g. sitting in review or in trunk but not released. | 20:03 |
| jog0 | lifeless: ahh I was thinking hardware inventory that makes more sense | 20:03 |
| lifeless | inventory is something you have built but are not benefiting from | 20:03 |
| lifeless | it's a cost | 20:03 |
| lifeless | who else is still here? derekh ? dprince ? GheRivero ? | 20:04 |
| * SpamapS is here | 20:04 | |
| * Ng | 20:04 | |
| slagle | i'm here :) | 20:04 |
| * jog0 here | 20:04 | |
| *** jodom has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 20:04 | |
| * rpodolyaka1 here | 20:04 | |
| dprince | dprince: leaving in a moment. | 20:04 |
| *** jodom has quit IRC | 20:04 | |
| lsmola_ | me too | 20:05 |
| * jprovazn here | 20:05 | |
| dkehn | here | 20:05 |
| lifeless | before you go | 20:05 |
| * marios | 20:05 | |
| lifeless | any thoughts on "change CD related reviews to only needing two +2's, not 'two +2's from | 20:05 |
| lifeless | non-the-author'" | 20:05 |
| lifeless | It was the only item proposed in the brainstorm :( | 20:05 |
| lifeless | We probably need a retrospective retrospective ;) | 20:06 |
| Ng | can we reasonably require the author to assert that their +2 is based on the change having been tested? | 20:06 |
| dprince | lifeless: fine by me, can re-evaluate again later if it doesn't prove useful. | 20:06 |
| *** markwash has quit IRC | 20:06 | |
| lifeless | Ng: yes | 20:06 |
| slagle | to me, that just means "one +2" :) | 20:06 |
| dprince | Ng: +1 good idea, +2 (I manually tested this) | 20:06 |
| lifeless | Ng: I think so | 20:06 |
| rpodolyaka1 | Ng: +1 | 20:06 |
| *** demorris has quit IRC | 20:06 | |
| derekh | sounds ok to me, maybe we say 1 +2 from non author | 20:06 |
| slagle | even requiring 2, +2's, i think we expect folks to test first | 20:06 |
| slagle | although, realistically, i know that can't always happen | 20:07 |
| * dprince for the record I've always loved sending my own code in | 20:07 | |
| lifeless | I think two +2's is useful because it's saying two sets of experienced-eyeballs. | 20:07 |
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| lifeless | dprince: you're in core I believe :) | 20:07 |
| lifeless | ok, so no objections; | 20:08 |
| lifeless | #action lifeless to report CD review tweak to the list | 20:08 |
| SpamapS | So, guidelines attached: +2 your own patch if you believe it is a) extremely straight forward, and b) you have a high degree of confidence it improves the situation of the CD environment. | 20:08 |
| lifeless | oh, I had one more suggestion | 20:08 |
| lsmola_ | no objections | 20:08 |
| lifeless | If anyone finds a problem with something we're supporting (as opposed to building out), they should open a firedrill card in kanban | 20:09 |
| lifeless | (or get someone to open one) | 20:09 |
| jog0 | I agree SpamapS's guidelines | 20:09 |
| *** derekh is now known as derekh_afk | 20:09 | |
| Ng | I'm not sure if this is a suggestion, but just now I looked at trello to remind myself what had been done in MVP1 and I don't think we keep separate cards for tasks that have been completed for a specific MVP, which makes doing a retrospective (at least for those of us with poor memories) harder :) | 20:09 |
| lsmola_ | SpamapS, +1 | 20:09 |
| lifeless | Ng: I think we kinda did a big retrospective of the last week | 20:09 |
| lifeless | Ng: perhaps we should archive all those cards now ? | 20:09 |
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| lsmola_ | SpamapS, or +2 I guess :-) | 20:09 |
| SpamapS | :) | 20:09 |
| Ng | lifeless: that's a good idea | 20:10 |
| lifeless | Ng: or are you suggesting a column for mvpN-done + generic-done ? | 20:10 |
| Ng | lifeless: well I was thinking mvpN-done so I could look at exactly what was part of a given mvp for retrospecting | 20:10 |
| * SpamapS would like to see the board duplicated and frozen whenever a milestone is reached, as that would be ideal for a retrospective | 20:10 | |
| Ng | but if we archive things as we've retrospected them, it's clear what is relevant for the next retrospective | 20:10 |
| lifeless | I don't know what will work better. | 20:10 |
| SpamapS | Ok this doesn't seem nearly as important as the other question | 20:11 |
| SpamapS | and we've gone well over teh hour. | 20:11 |
| lifeless | yup, thanks for your patience | 20:11 |
| lifeless | #endmeeting | 20:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)" | 20:11 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 15 20:11:19 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:11 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tripleo/2013/tripleo.2013-10-15-19.01.html | 20:11 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tripleo/2013/tripleo.2013-10-15-19.01.txt | 20:11 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tripleo/2013/tripleo.2013-10-15-19.01.log.html | 20:11 |
| SpamapS | lifeless: thanks for the great meeting! | 20:11 |
| lsmola_ | thank you, good night guys | 20:11 |
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| jistr | thanks, good night | 20:11 |
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