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| bswartz | #startmeeting manila | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 14 15:01:25 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:01 |
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| bswartz | good morning folks | 15:01 |
| xyang1 | good morning | 15:01 |
| jcorbin | Good Morning | 15:01 |
| bswartz | I don't have an agenda today | 15:02 |
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| bswartz | today is my first day back since I extended my stay in Hong Kong | 15:02 |
| bswartz | we can talk about the conference however | 15:02 |
| glenng | *conference was good" | 15:03 |
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| bswartz | yeah I enjoyed meeting many of you at the conference | 15:03 |
| vbellur | glenng: +1 | 15:03 |
| xyang1 | nice meeting everyone | 15:03 |
| bswartz | I think that the unconference session was successful | 15:03 |
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| bswartz | for those of you who weren't able to be there, the unconference session was well attended, and the questions asked were good ones | 15:04 |
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| bswartz | the main thing that i realized after seeing how much interest there is in the project is that we need to get the project into a state where vendors can write backends very soon | 15:05 |
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| caitlin56 | +1 | 15:06 |
| bswartz | I suspect the best way to do that is to get the mutitenant support working ASAP, and to add support for that to the NetApp driver | 15:06 |
| vbellur | bswartz: agree | 15:06 |
| glenng | bswartz: Agree. | 15:06 |
| xyang1 | +1 | 15:06 |
| bswartz | that means that the so-called Generic driver (or "LVM" driver) is less important in the short term | 15:06 |
| bswartz | the generic driver has been sucking up a lot of time and attention and ultimately it's not critical to getting other backends implemented | 15:07 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: I can make update about multitenancy | 15:07 |
| caitlin56 | LVM driver is of most interest to the TC - i suspect most of the people here want to build their own drivers. | 15:07 |
| bswartz | it IS critical for an actual release, so we can't simply ignore it | 15:07 |
| vponomaryov | 1) Generic LXC share driver - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55265/ | 15:08 |
| bswartz | oh thanks for reminding me caitlin56 | 15:08 |
| vponomaryov | 2) Neutron API module - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55555/ | 15:08 |
| vponomaryov | 3) Network allocation in ShareManager - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55558/ | 15:08 |
| bswartz | evidently the TC considered our incubation request last tuesday, while I was on an airplane | 15:08 |
| xyang1 | I thought we are going with full blown VM? | 15:08 |
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| bswartz | I was under the impression that it would be considered next tuesday but they're considering it all this week | 15:09 |
| bswartz | so the LVM driver is an issue for them | 15:09 |
| vbellur | bswartz: even I was under the impression that it would be on 19th | 15:09 |
| bswartz | there are a few important points about that | 15:10 |
| bswartz | vbellur: I bet it's because I told you that date | 15:10 |
| bswartz | vbellur: I was the one who was mistaken however | 15:10 |
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| vbellur | bswartz: possibly so, I never bothered to check either. | 15:10 |
| bswartz | 1) We must stop calling it the "LVM driver" -- it shall becalled the "Generic Driver" henceforth | 15:10 |
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| bswartz | 2) I propose that the generic driver uses virtualization (based on nova) and a block device backend (based on cinder) | 15:11 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: I have yet to look at the LXC code that's been written, but if it works I don't want to ignore it | 15:12 |
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| caitlin56 | bswartz: and implements generic NFS/CIFS from stock linux? | 15:12 |
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| vponomaryov | bswartz: yes, it works, tested | 15:12 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: As I mentioned above, everything related to the generic driver is low priority in the short term though | 15:13 |
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| vponomaryov | for each implementation of protocols can be written class-helper | 15:13 |
| caitlin56 | yponmaryov: but isn't setting up things like tenant specific DNS take extra work (even though I have seen scripts that demonstrate how). | 15:13 |
| vponomaryov | but not tied yet with neutron code | 15:13 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: I'll look at it soon, the other 2 changes are more interesting however | 15:13 |
| jcorbin | vponomaryov: First code review link works, other 2 give permission errors. Is this expected? | 15:14 |
| bswartz | yes it seems that the submissions are marked private currently | 15:14 |
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| vponomaryov | jcorbin: yes, it hat restricted access, at least, for now | 15:15 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: please add access to jcorbin as he's familiar with neutron and I'd like his feedback as well | 15:16 |
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| bswartz | anyone else who's curious please ping vponomaryov too | 15:16 |
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| navneet | mee too | 15:17 |
| xyang1 | vponomaryov: please add me too | 15:17 |
| vbellur | vponomaryov: me too | 15:17 |
| vponomaryov | jcorbin: provide your username in launchpad | 15:17 |
| bswartz | so the other thing that's clear from the conference is that there is strong interest in the "tunneled" style of access, expecially for backends like ceph and gluster | 15:17 |
| glenng | vponomaryov: My Launchpad name is ggobeli | 15:17 |
| bswartz | Any IBM/GPFS folks here? | 15:18 |
| jcorbin | vponomaryov: My Launchpad name is osjcorbin. Thanks! | 15:18 |
| bill_az | vponomaryov: also me - billowen@us.ibm.com | 15:18 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: it looks like *Everyone* is interested may as well mark it public | 15:18 |
| xyang1 | vponomaryov: my launchpad name is: xing-yang | 15:18 |
| bill_az | And I'm IBM/GPFS | 15:18 |
| bswartz | bill_az: have you given any thought to the multitenant access issues? | 15:18 |
| vbellur | vponomaryov: my launchpad id is vbellur | 15:18 |
| bswartz | bill_az: is GPFS going to be in the same boat as ceph and gluster? | 15:19 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: I can inform our devs, I am not the owner of gerrit commit | 15:19 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: ty | 15:19 |
| bill_az | bswartz: I have been discussing it with others on the team | 15:19 |
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| bill_az | bswartz: we have some things coming in gpfs 4.1 in the spring that will help w/ multitenancy | 15:19 |
| caitlin56 | bswartz: by "tunneled" do you mean some form of "virtFS"? | 15:19 |
| navneet | mine is singn | 15:19 |
| bswartz | So just to recap, many clustered filesystems such as ceph and gluster doesn't have facilities to provide "virtual servers" on different tenant networks | 15:20 |
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| bswartz | These clustered filesystems assume full network connectivity between the client and every server node | 15:20 |
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| caitlin56 | bswartz: I believe the fundamental issue is who deals with tenant users. The "virtFS" approach puts this on the Hypervisor, the virtual server approach puts it on the file server. | 15:21 |
| bswartz | caitlin56: yes | 15:21 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | that's part 1, part 2 is the networking constraints imposed by the full connectivity bswartz mentioned | 15:22 |
| caitlin56 | My evaluation is that relying on the hypervisor a) will add a minimum of one year to the project and b) doesn't truly secure the files even then. | 15:22 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | bill_az, I assume gpfs also requires connectivity to every node, right? | 15:22 |
| bswartz | so for clustered filesystems that aren't able to create a virtual-server-per-tenant, due to the number of network interfaces involved, we need a hypervisor-mediated approach to secure multitenancy | 15:22 |
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| bswartz | that could mean virtfs, or NFS-over-PPP, or NFS-over-vsock | 15:23 |
| caitlin56 | Nobody is *unable* to do a virtual server per tenant, they just haven't done it yet. | 15:23 |
| bill_az | gregsfortytwo1: yes -thats correct | 15:23 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | caitlin56: if "server" — implying one — is nonsensical in your architecture you're unable | 15:24 |
| bswartz | caitlin56: I think the issue is the number of network interfaces involved -- it's simply impractical | 15:24 |
| caitlin56 | Tunneling NFS with less-than-a-tenant-network sounds like a simpler approach than virtFS. | 15:24 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | we are all able to implement multienancy even if we haven't, but that's not the biggest issue from Manila's perspective | 15:24 |
| bill_az | gregsfortytwo1: but we plan to limit access through isolated filesystems and encryption keys | 15:24 |
| bswartz | if you have a 200 node ceph cluster, you can't create 200 additional virtual network interfaces for every tenant | 15:24 |
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| caitlin56 | But even with tunneled NFS, the server is going to have to do per-tenant authentication, which I presume they are also incapable of doing today. | 15:25 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | bill_az: yeah, that's essentially the path Ceph is walking down, though not very quickly | 15:25 |
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| bswartz | caitlin56: the theory would be to create a NFS-to-ceph bridge, or an NFS-to-glusterFS bridge | 15:26 |
| bill_az | gregsfortytwo1: it will be tough for us for icehouse - but should have that for j | 15:26 |
| bswartz | the NFS itself would have no authentication | 15:26 |
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| caitlin56 | That's fine. That's a vendor provided proxy. Effectively a virtual server. | 15:26 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | caitlin56: no, we can handle that already in most of the stack; not sure about gluster; sounds like gpfs can/will | 15:26 |
| bswartz | fortunately bad security is something NFS is very good at | 15:26 |
| caitlin56 | gregfortytwo: my main concern is avoiding an openstack managed common UID/GID pool that everyone maps to. | 15:27 |
| vbellur | gregsfortytwo1: gluster can handle that too | 15:27 |
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| gregsfortytwo1 | caitlin56: ah, hadn't even gotten to that issue yet in my head :) | 15:29 |
| bswartz | okay so I'm glad we're all thinking about the issue here -- tunneled FS support will need to come soon after the full network connectivity style of multitenant support | 15:29 |
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| bswartz | issues* | 15:29 |
| caitlin56 | question: does it need to be a lib, or can it just be a NAS proxy? | 15:29 |
| bswartz | those are the 2 main roadblocks to allowing various storage vendors to write functional backends | 15:29 |
| bswartz | the actual implementation of the bridge/proxy will need to run on the compute node -- whether it's a manila-agent, or changes to nova, or some library -- I'm not sure about taht | 15:30 |
| bswartz | for a prototype we should keep the code in manila | 15:30 |
| bswartz | long term it might make sense to host it elsewhere -- especially if it's generically useful outside of manila | 15:31 |
| caitlin56 | So this would be a pluggable library that ran in the same context as the manilla agent? | 15:31 |
| bswartz | I want to be careful with the term "manila agent" because it could mean a lot of different things | 15:31 |
| caitlin56 | You would want it to be on a path that made sense for bulk data transfer - preferably "close" to the guest. | 15:32 |
| bswartz | the idea of automatic mounts inside the nova instances is still interesting to many -- and those may necessitate a different kind of agent | 15:32 |
| bswartz | but absolutely it can/should run on the compute node | 15:33 |
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| bswartz | possibly "manila-bridge" or "manila-gateway" would be a more descriptive term | 15:33 |
| caitlin56 | bswartz: proxying TCP connections is something compatible with the current infrastructure. Passing full file-systems through hypervisors will be a lot more work. | 15:33 |
| bswartz | caitlin56: we're talking about the later not the former | 15:34 |
| bswartz | I'm aware that it will be real work | 15:34 |
| caitlin56 | bswartz: distinguishing between manila-bridge (control plane) vs. manila-gateway (user-plane) sounds like a good idea to me. | 15:34 |
| bswartz | anyways today I just wanted to lay out the priorities | 15:35 |
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| bswartz | 1) get the neutron code working so we can do full network multitenancy | 15:36 |
| caitlin56 | I first looked at NAS proxies for VMs two years ago, and concluded that intercepting at the network layer was more feasible than at the FS-operation layer. | 15:36 |
| bswartz | 2) implement some tunneling/virtfs code to support mediated multitenancy | 15:36 |
| bswartz | 3) implement the generic driver | 15:36 |
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| caitlin56 | I feared that even if Xen and KVM adopted "virtFS" it would take two years to deploy. In those 2 years there has been no progress on adopting a virtFS API. | 15:36 |
| bswartz | caitlin56: I'd be curious to know why that is -- let's take that discussion offline | 15:37 |
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| bswartz | regarding virtfs -- if that turns out to be a blocker than NFSv3-over-vsock may be a faster path to get something working | 15:37 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | s/offline/to #openstack-manila? :) | 15:38 |
| caitlin56 | Let each proxy decide whether to support NFSv3 and/or NFSv4. | 15:38 |
| bswartz | there are lots of technologies that can be applied here -- I'm confident we'll find something that works | 15:38 |
| caitlin56 | or for that matter CIFS. | 15:38 |
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| bswartz | caitlin56: we're going to have to write these proxies ourselves though -- I'm not eager to take on tons of work | 15:40 |
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| caitlin56 | Correct, these are pluggable proxies. Someone has to provide their own proxy. | 15:40 |
| bswartz | If NFSv3 works as a bridge protocol, I think it will be hard to argue that there's a significant advantage to using something like cifs or v4 | 15:40 |
| caitlin56 | Am I correct that neither CEPH or Gluster would want soeone else writing the proxies to access their networks? | 15:41 |
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| bswartz | caitlin56: I think you're incorrect | 15:41 |
| bswartz | I should be the job of manila to provide the glue | 15:41 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | no reason to independently implement setting up an nfs server instance ;) | 15:41 |
| bswartz | my vision is to implement one thing that works for everyone | 15:42 |
| caitlin56 | So you want a manila coded proxy that maps UID/GIDs for NFSv3 to NFSv3? | 15:42 |
| bswartz | once we have a gateway of sorts that runs on the compute node, it shouldn't matter what's on the actual backend -- as long as the compute node can mount it, it can be tunneled through to the guest | 15:42 |
| bswartz | caitlin56: I don't want any UID/GID mapping to occur | 15:43 |
| bswartz | if we do this correctly, it should be safe to do no mapping | 15:43 |
| caitlin56 | Another form of proxy would translate Any-NAS-Protocol to My-backends-proprietary-protocol. | 15:43 |
| aostapenko | in lxc implementation we can mount directly to vms | 15:44 |
| aostapenko | we will can :) | 15:44 |
| bswartz | okay so we have some conflicting ideas here | 15:44 |
| bswartz | maybe my vision will not work out | 15:45 |
| bswartz | can we at least agree on the priorities I mentioned? | 15:45 |
| bswartz | those who are interested in the tunneling approach should probably form a working group and hash out the issues | 15:46 |
| caitlin56 | If you aren't doing UID/GID mapping then you would have to trust the gateway to do mount authentication. Then all you need to map to a universal pool are the mounts. | 15:46 |
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| bswartz | I'm interested in the tunneled approach working correctly, so I'll organize those discussions | 15:47 |
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| * caitlin56 is interested in both models - could see implementing either on our end. | 15:47 | |
| bswartz | I suspect that we might be making this harder than it needs to be though | 15:47 |
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| bswartz | My instinct is that we should write a prototype first, and then discover all the ways that it's wrong | 15:48 |
| vbellur | bswartz: priorities seem fine to me | 15:48 |
| caitlin56 | You can make it simpler if you just state the caveat that a gateway solution requires trusting the gateway. | 15:48 |
| bswartz | caitlin56: oh yes, absolutely | 15:48 |
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| vbellur | bswartz: +1 to the prototype | 15:49 |
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| bswartz | caitlin56: the gateway approach is akin to how you must trust the hypervisor to faithfully present block devices to you | 15:49 |
| bill_az | bswartz: +1 - get the simlest --realistic-- prototype working asap as a model and to help discussion | 15:49 |
| jcorbin | bswartz: +1 to the prototype | 15:49 |
| bswartz | this "manila-gateway" thing would be running on the compute node, and it would be part of the cloud infrastructure -- hidden from the tenant's view | 15:50 |
| caitlin56 | +1, but we should not wait onthe multi-tenant network solution. | 15:50 |
| gregsfortytwo1 | the gateway would be essentially the generic implementation, plus some holes that different drivers can plug in order to set up their own backends, right? | 15:50 |
| bswartz | the tenant would have no choice but to trust it | 15:50 |
| vbellur | gregsfortytwo1: sounds like a good model | 15:51 |
| caitlin56 | bswartz: the multi-tenant network approach with virtual servers avoids needing to trust the compute host. | 15:51 |
| bswartz | gregsfortytwo1: the gateway is really a get-out-of-jail-free card for backends that can't connect themselves directly to tenant networks on account of the limitted-number-of-network-interfaces problem | 15:51 |
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| bswartz | caitlin56: yeah I believe that's the best method for backends than can support it -- it's just that not all can | 15:52 |
| bswartz | in fact it's come to my attention that even some more traditional NFS-based storage devices (I'm thinking of Isolon) can't directly support multitenancy, and may need something like this to work in public cloud environments | 15:53 |
| caitlin56 | bswartz: if the server trusts the gateway to mount only exports approved by the correct authentication server then you only need a single LAN netowrk between the compute hosts and the file servers. | 15:53 |
| bswartz | caitlin56: yes that's the idea | 15:53 |
| bswartz | okay since we're nearly out of time | 15:54 |
| bswartz | #topic open discussion | 15:54 |
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| bswartz | does anyone else have another topic that I didn't bring up? | 15:54 |
| bswartz | wow that quieted things down | 15:55 |
| bill_az | bswartz: is there a summary of manila activities at summit? | 15:55 |
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| bswartz | bill_az: yes | 15:55 |
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| bswartz | as I mentioned at the beginning, we have a unconference session which went well | 15:56 |
| bswartz | we had* a unconference session | 15:56 |
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| bswartz | and we also got together for drinks and I managed to get my boss to pay the bar tab | 15:56 |
| bill_az | bswartz: sorry - i missed the first few minutes - is there minutes or summary published? | 15:56 |
| bswartz | thanks to everyone who showed up -- it's always great to meet face to face before we go off and spend 6 months coding together | 15:57 |
| vbellur | bswartz: thanks for the drinks! :) | 15:57 |
| bill_az | bswartz: sorry I missed both! (especially drinks...) | 15:57 |
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| bswartz | and I can't tell you how many people grabbed me personally in the hallways to talk about manila | 15:58 |
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| bswartz | the interest level is high | 15:58 |
| bswartz | we need to move fast while we have momentum | 15:58 |
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| vbellur | bswartz: +1 | 15:58 |
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| bswartz | I'll be talking to TC members about the incubation request -- we should have an answer on tuesday | 15:59 |
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| bill_az | bswartz: that all sounds good - Thanks | 15:59 |
| bswartz | and with that we're out of time | 15:59 |
| glenng | Let's hope, | 15:59 |
| bswartz | thanks everyone | 15:59 |
| vbellur | thanks all | 15:59 |
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| bswartz | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 14 15:59:51 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2013/manila.2013-11-14-15.01.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2013/manila.2013-11-14-15.01.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2013/manila.2013-11-14-15.01.log.html | 15:59 |
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| banix | Looks like the Group-based policy meeting is not happening today; Kyle had sent out an email yesterday that we may skip this week meeting. | 16:05 |
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| banix | So let us meet next week the same time (1600 UTC) on this channel for the first meeting of the Group-based Policy sub-team. Meanwhile please use the dev mailing list to discuss any issues. Thanks. Mohammad. | 16:12 |
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| hemanthravi | banix: Isn't the Group-based policy meeting on even weeks, is there one scheduled for next week | 16:17 |
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| banix | hemanthravi: No it is weekly on Thursdays at 1600 UTC | 16:18 |
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| banix | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#Neutron_Group_Policy_Sub-Team_Meeting | 16:19 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | savanna team meeting will be here in 10 mins | 17:56 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | hi savanna folks | 18:05 |
| alazarev | o/ | 18:05 |
| NikitaKonovalov | hi | 18:05 |
| aignatov | Hi, Sergey! | 18:05 |
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| crobertsrh | hi | 18:06 |
| mattf | o/ | 18:06 |
| SergeyLukjanov | let's start the meeting | 18:06 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #startmeeting savanna | 18:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 14 18:06:46 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SergeyLukjanov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'savanna' | 18:06 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic Agenda | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:07 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SavannaAgenda | 18:07 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic Action items from the last meeting | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:07 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | ACTION: aignatov to start retrospective discussion | 18:07 |
| aignatov | as far as i remember I should pick up one thing from what didn't work well | 18:08 |
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| aignatov | and initiate the discussion | 18:08 |
| aignatov | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Savanna/Release_0.3_Retrospective | 18:08 |
| aignatov | just posted retrospective page | 18:08 |
| SergeyLukjanov | it's about already achieved results | 18:09 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | let's discuss it later on the meeting if you have no results right now | 18:09 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I'll add section to the meeting agenda | 18:09 |
| aignatov | ok | 18:10 |
| SergeyLukjanov | there are no other action items from last meetings | 18:10 |
| mattf | that'll give the rest of us time to swap those pages back in too | 18:10 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic Summit results | 18:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit results (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:10 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Icehouse/Etherpads#Savanna | 18:10 |
| SergeyLukjanov | here are the etherpads from the savanna design summity | 18:11 |
| mattf | nice job running the design sessions btw | 18:11 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, thank you | 18:11 |
| SergeyLukjanov | thank you all guys for etherpads preparation help | 18:12 |
| aignatov | I think we should see at summary sections,right and sections marked yellow | 18:12 |
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| aignatov | crobertsh and tmckay did you get guys Savanna t-shirts from mattf? ;) | 18:13 |
| mattf | not yet | 18:13 |
| crobertsrh | I have not yet got mine, but I'm not local to his office | 18:13 |
| * mattf just got home ~24 hours ago | 18:13 | |
| crobertsrh | I suspect it is on the way :) | 18:13 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mattf, oh, I've return home about 24 hours ago too | 18:14 |
| SergeyLukjanov | :) | 18:14 |
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| mattf | i'm hoping to put them in the mail this week (err, tomorrow?) | 18:15 |
| aignatov | Sergey, what are our plans with these etherpads - will we write one more document with results, send to ML and create needed bps? | 18:15 |
| SergeyLukjanov | aignatov, exactly | 18:15 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | aignatov, we have several subtopics, I think I prepare joined results overview and send them to ML | 18:16 |
| aignatov | ok, great | 18:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | hm, looks like nothing to discuss more on this topic right no, I think that we'll eventually cover on following meetings allquestions from design summit | 18:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic News / updates | 18:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "News / updates (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:17 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | guys, please | 18:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | no news from my side | 18:17 |
| mattf | openstack summit in hong kong -- that happened... | 18:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | only double jet lag :) | 18:18 |
| aignatov | jmaron, here? It seems issue with hadoop log dir is fixed by Vadim's patch | 18:18 |
| crobertsrh | I've been implementing "download job binary" in the dashboard. Small feature, but something that was on my list for awhile. I have a few other minor enhancements for the UI that I'll be getting to next week. | 18:18 |
| SergeyLukjanov | btw there a lot of cool bars in HKG with awesome views | 18:18 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | any other news/updates? | 18:19 |
| aignatov | crobertsrh, thx, in the design tracks about edp we decided to get UI better from EDP perspective | 18:20 |
| crobertsrh | Sounds great. I'll take a look at the etherpad. | 18:20 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ok, let's move on | 18:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic Roadmap cleanup / update | 18:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roadmap cleanup / update (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:21 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | looks like that's time to rename 1.0 to Icehouse ;) | 18:21 |
| mattf | +2 | 18:21 |
| aignatov | +2 | 18:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Savanna/Roadmap | 18:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ok | 18:22 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | I hope that we'll understand teams throughput for I in few weeks and cleanup roadmap/bps for it | 18:22 |
| mattf | Fedora & RDO integration are arguably in for 0.3. we'll keep enhancing the integration, but the base work is done. | 18:22 |
| SergeyLukjanov | correct | 18:23 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | btw Icehouse release date is April, 17 | 18:24 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule | 18:24 |
| aignatov | and Icehouse-1 on Dec 5 | 18:25 |
| SergeyLukjanov | yep | 18:25 |
| aignatov | I think we should plan what will be included tin icehouse-1 | 18:25 |
| mattf | +1 | 18:25 |
| aignatov | akuznetsov, here? | 18:26 |
| akuznetsov | yes | 18:26 |
| SergeyLukjanov | yeah, it looks like that we have only few weeks to make patches for icehouse-1 | 18:26 |
| aignatov | will you send external hdfs support? | 18:26 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | external hdfs, edp in hdp, polished trusts, swift auth url fix | 18:27 |
| akuznetsov | I will do it tommorrow | 18:27 |
| mattf | reviewing swift auth atm, sergey is quick | 18:27 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | akuznetsov, great | 18:28 |
| SergeyLukjanov | let's collect ideas about icehouse-1 plans till the next meeting | 18:28 |
| aignatov | alazarev, here? today we realised that problem with Hive could be fixed by changing the swift patch for hadoop by the following way - removing credentials from core-site and add the ability for Hadoop using tenant id and authenticating using it without credentilas | 18:28 |
| aignatov | something like that | 18:29 |
| alazarev | here | 18:29 |
| SergeyLukjanov | there is a problem with tokens - they could expire | 18:29 |
| alazarev | and how to authenticate without credentials? | 18:30 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | alazarev, the only way is to use trusts and obtain tokens using them from swift | 18:31 |
| SergeyLukjanov | but it'll require some service user credentials in swift too | 18:31 |
| SergeyLukjanov | sounds very comple | 18:31 |
| SergeyLukjanov | complex | 18:31 |
| akuznetsov | possible we should consider oAuth mechanize for this | 18:32 |
| alazarev | agree, sounds complex | 18:32 |
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| aignatov | yep, the problem is still here :( | 18:32 |
| alazarev | is bug filed for a problem? where can I find more details? | 18:32 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I don't know the current oauth impl status | 18:32 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #topic General discussion | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General discussion (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:32 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | jspeidel, here? | 18:33 |
| aignatov | alazarev, I'm looking for it | 18:35 |
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| mattf | aignatov, i'm reading over the retrospective and think we could effectively take on bp lifecycle and bug-scrub days for icehouse | 18:37 |
| crobertsrh | Yes, +1 for bug-scrub days | 18:37 |
| SergeyLukjanov | yep, we'll need some | 18:38 |
| aignatov | mattf, exactly, ++ | 18:38 |
| SergeyLukjanov | let's have one on the next week | 18:38 |
| SergeyLukjanov | what's about Tue? | 18:38 |
| SergeyLukjanov | Nov, 19 | 18:38 |
| aignatov | + | 18:39 |
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| * mattf imagines team scrubbing and bp management will also help w/ collaboration improvement | 18:40 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | ok, if there are no objections than we'll have bug/bp scrub/cleanup day next Tue | 18:41 |
| mattf | tmckay, crobertsrh, ^^? | 18:41 |
| tmckay | sounds good to me | 18:41 |
| crobertsrh | Tuesday is great for me | 18:41 |
| aignatov | Hortonworks guys here? Will they attend Tue bug-scrub? | 18:42 |
| mattf | if you guys want to do it earlier in the day, i can do 9:30-10:30ET or 12:00ET (helps our west coast friends) | 18:42 |
| mattf | let's ping them in email | 18:42 |
| aignatov | ET is what in UTC? | 18:43 |
| * mattf looks it up | 18:43 | |
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| mattf | i think it's -5 atm | 18:44 |
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| mattf | it's currently 1:45ET | 18:44 |
| SergeyLukjanov | usually it's a all-day event when we'll communicate using irc and post comments to the bugs about their actual state | 18:44 |
| mattf | http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=43 | 18:45 |
| mattf | SergeyLukjanov, hmm, how do you usually do a bug scrub? | 18:45 |
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| mattf | ...what's the process you've used in the past? | 18:46 |
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| aignatov | mattf, btw did you resolve issue with '16 of 20 core used'? ;) | 18:46 |
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| mattf | aignatov, i think so. i've not been able to run my latest test. | 18:47 |
| SergeyLukjanov | we should start from cleaning all bugs | 18:47 |
| mattf | i've a very strong feeling it is pebkac | 18:47 |
| SergeyLukjanov | all bugs should be rechecked/triaged and their statuses should be updated | 18:48 |
| SergeyLukjanov | to sync our efforts we'll use #savanna | 18:48 |
| aignatov | Â mattf, what is pebkac? | 18:48 |
| mattf | aignatov, basically i think my flavor was too big and during provisioning i ran over quota. rollback cleaned up resulting in 0 used when i would go and look after getting the error. | 18:48 |
| ruhe | mattf, they invented abbreviation even for this :) | 18:48 |
| mattf | aignatov, problem exists between keyboard and chair -- user error | 18:49 |
| aignatov | xD | 18:49 |
| mattf | SergeyLukjanov, i imagine the rechecking will be a time consuming component | 18:49 |
| SergeyLukjanov | :) | 18:49 |
| SergeyLukjanov | yep | 18:50 |
| SergeyLukjanov | so, I hope that most part of savanna folks will participate in it | 18:50 |
| tmckay | looks like I only have a meeting on Tues from 10:30-11:30 EST, so I can pay attention to #savanna for bug scrub | 18:50 |
| mattf | aignatov, oh, jetlag... i did retest and it was indeed quota overrun during provisioning. i was never successful at starting the cluster because i am using a fedora image and HDP Plugin only supports CentOS | 18:50 |
| tmckay | all day :) | 18:50 |
| * mattf just checked and the cluster has been in "configuring" for 6 days | 18:51 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | it's named "bugday" in OpenStack | 18:51 |
| mattf | SergeyLukjanov, is there a wiki page about it? | 18:51 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/BugDays | 18:51 |
| SergeyLukjanov | there are no details | 18:52 |
| SergeyLukjanov | but in few words | 18:52 |
| SergeyLukjanov | that's a day when volunteers rechecks bugs and updates their statuses using irc to sync | 18:52 |
| mattf | The next day will happen on July 12th, 2012 | 18:52 |
| mattf | oof | 18:52 |
| tmckay | is there food? ;-) | 18:53 |
| aignatov | mattf, well at least now you know what problem is | 18:53 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | yep, they sending emails to ML about bug days sometimes | 18:53 |
| SergeyLukjanov | w/o any schedule afaik | 18:53 |
| SergeyLukjanov | on-demand event | 18:53 |
| mattf | aignatov, and it's a difficult to diagnose error, esp when half asleep | 18:53 |
| aignatov | bug day doesn't touch blueprints, right? | 18:53 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | I think let's start from bugs | 18:54 |
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| ruhe | according to #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprints blueprints is PTL's responsibility | 18:54 |
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| mattf | if we start from blueprints and roadmap we have a chance at prioritizing bugs for the scrub | 18:54 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ruhe, yep | 18:54 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | before cleaning bps we should finalize plans for icehouse-1 | 18:54 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | let's start from the bug day and I'll clean current BPs | 18:55 |
| * mattf checks how many bugs exist atm | 18:55 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | and we discuss plans for the i-1 at the next irc | 18:55 |
| mattf | https://bugs.launchpad.net/savanna | 18:56 |
| mattf | 62 atm | 18:56 |
| SergeyLukjanov | yep, that's enough to check | 18:56 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #info Nov, 19 Savanna bug day | 18:56 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I'll send it to ML | 18:57 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | and ping HW folks | 18:57 |
| mattf | tmckay, crobertsrh, you could skip that call on tues | 18:57 |
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| mattf | ErikB, welcome | 18:57 |
| tmckay | mattf, okey doke | 18:57 |
| crobertsrh | :) | 18:57 |
| SergeyLukjanov | that's a all day long event, so, call isn't the problem :) | 18:57 |
| ErikB | mattf, hey there | 18:57 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ErikB, o/ | 18:58 |
| mattf | ErikB, we're talking about doing a full day bug scrub on the 19th | 18:58 |
| tmckay | SergeyLukjanov, don't say that, give us an excuse ;-) | 18:58 |
| ErikB | Hi Everyone | 18:58 |
| aignatov | hi, ErikB, did you get Savanna t-shirt from jspiedel? ;) | 18:58 |
| mattf | aignatov, lol | 18:58 |
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| ErikB | aignatov, I did. It's very cool. thank you | 18:58 |
| aignatov | yep, mattf, the same question at the end :) | 18:59 |
| mattf | ErikB, the bug scrub would be all day triage (rechecking, update details, prioritize) bugs | 18:59 |
| SergeyLukjanov | tmckay, oops, on the other side, there shouldn't be any calls to have a good bug day ;) | 18:59 |
| mattf | SergeyLukjanov, lol | 18:59 |
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| ErikB | did we join the meeting an hour late? | 19:00 |
| tmckay | got it, bug day is the priority | 19:00 |
| aignatov | ErikB, yes | 19:00 |
| jspeidel | sorry, we had a time change | 19:00 |
| jspeidel | didn't account for that | 19:00 |
| ErikB | My apologies, I did not adjust for time change on our end... | 19:00 |
| jmaron | doh! I knew I hated going off DST... | 19:00 |
| mattf | ErikB, think of it as 167 hours early | 19:00 |
| ErikB | ;-) | 19:01 |
| mattf | nirmal around? | 19:01 |
| SergeyLukjanov | we're out of time | 19:01 |
| SergeyLukjanov | thank you all | 19:01 |
| mattf | ciao | 19:02 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | #info JFYI you can always use openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org mailing lists and #savanna irc channel to find us and ask your questions | 19:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #endmeeting | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 14 19:02:30 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/savanna/2013/savanna.2013-11-14-18.06.html | 19:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/savanna/2013/savanna.2013-11-14-18.06.txt | 19:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/savanna/2013/savanna.2013-11-14-18.06.log.html | 19:02 |
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| ErikB | did you guys see this: http://docs.openstack.org/ops/ ? | 19:06 |
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| mattf | rnirmal, missed you, daylight savings change. we're back over in #savanna | 19:13 |
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| rnirmal | ah shoot I was waiting for another 15 mins :( | 19:13 |
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| markwash | glance people here today? | 19:58 |
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| rosmaita | hi mark | 20:00 |
| markwash | greetings folks! | 20:00 |
| nikhil | o/ | 20:00 |
| ameade | hey | 20:00 |
| markwash | lets get this party started :-) | 20:00 |
| markwash | #startmeeting glance | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 14 20:00:55 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is markwash. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'glance' | 20:00 |
| markwash | so who all do we have here today? | 20:01 |
| ameade | \0/ | 20:01 |
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| esheffield_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| * nikhil . | 20:01 | |
| zhiyan | hi | 20:01 |
| esheffield_ | ameade is really excited to be here | 20:01 |
| rosmaita | hi | 20:01 |
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| dosaboy | \o | 20:02 |
| ameade | esheffield_: nah, i was just stretching | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:02 |
| markwash | twoputt: flwang: ? | 20:02 |
| markwash | (just thought I'd highlight them in case they're around) | 20:02 |
| markwash | okay let's get started! | 20:02 |
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| markwash | #topic Summit Review! | 20:03 |
| dosaboy | zhiyan: morning ;) | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit Review! (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:03 | |
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| zhiyan | dosaboy: :) hey | 20:03 |
| markwash | we had all of our sessions on Tuesday | 20:03 |
| nikhil | w00t | 20:03 |
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| markwash | and honestly I have been working on the summaries sporadically since then | 20:04 |
| markwash | and so far I only need to finish up the taskflow one | 20:04 |
| markwash | then I'll send it all out the list | 20:04 |
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| flaper87 | awesome! | 20:04 |
| markwash | the problem has been that summarizing is very thought provoking, so I end up sitting there thinking instead of typing | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | hahahaha, indeed it is | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | I think I spent the rest of the summit and my flight back having ideas of things to do | 20:05 |
| markwash | zhiyan: I think you added the note about figuring out what we're focusing on for this release, are there any notes you want to make on that front? | 20:06 |
| zhiyan | markwash: i have a draft list for myself. | 20:06 |
| zhiyan | but i'd like to see your list first. | 20:07 |
| markwash | there are a few ideas that have come up that weren't in our discussions, but were suggested by them | 20:07 |
| markwash | I suppose those ought to be blueprints as well | 20:08 |
| markwash | okay, well I'll get that sent out today to the ML, please read and respond in case I'm still missing something that was going on in the talks | 20:08 |
| markwash | next topic | 20:08 |
| markwash | #topic Glance Mini Summit (Tentative) Plans | 20:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Glance Mini Summit (Tentative) Plans (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:08 | |
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| markwash | Today I'll be sending out another email seeking feedback and interest in a Glance mid-cycle meetup / mini summit | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | wooooooooohoooooooooooooo!!!! | 20:09 |
| markwash | tentatively, the plan would be sometime in late January, and we would probably hold it in some small conference space in the Washington DC area | 20:09 |
| ameade | in hawaii right? | 20:09 |
| ameade | wooo | 20:09 |
| ameade | aww | 20:09 |
| nikhil | +1 | 20:09 |
| markwash | not sure how well that works for folks. . . but be sure to provide feedback in your responses | 20:10 |
| * nikhil quickly checks airbnb for some rental options | 20:10 | |
| markwash | any questions about the meetup? | 20:10 |
| ashwini | add the link to the form here? | 20:11 |
| markwash | sure that would be great | 20:11 |
| markwash | #link https://docs.google.com/forms/d/11DjkNAzVAdtMCPrsLiyjA7ck33jnexmKqlqaCl5olO8/viewform | 20:11 |
| markwash | that's the form you can use to indicate your interest | 20:11 |
| markwash | again I'll be sending that out to everyone on the ML later | 20:12 |
| markwash | since hopefully we'll get some interest from Nova folks and people outside the core group (that comes to the meeting :-) ) | 20:12 |
| markwash | all right, moving on | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | awesome | 20:12 |
| markwash | #topic Review Responsiveness | 20:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Responsiveness (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:12 | |
| ameade | yes, there are some trivial patches that have just been sitting out there | 20:13 |
| markwash | I'd like us to take some time today to discuss ways we can improve how we process and handle reviews | 20:13 |
| markwash | for some context, here are our recent reviewstats links | 20:13 |
| markwash | #link http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/glance-reviewers-30.txt | 20:14 |
| markwash | #link http://www.russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/glance-openreviews.html | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | yeah, I took a look at those today. I've been a very bad reviewer lately | 20:14 |
| markwash | i think those numbers are helpful if we don't take them too far. . its possible to go overboard with metrics | 20:14 |
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| flaper87 | so, I think we need to dedicate some more time to review patch of new contributors as well and make sure they leave with enough information | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | I also think we need to have a plan for this development cycle and then focus a bit more on the patches that help moving that plan forward | 20:16 |
| ameade | we may want to put some process in place | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | that being said, we definitely need more reviews. At least, I have to dedicate more time to it | 20:16 |
| markwash | I think a plan makes sense. . and I think some of the numbers being a bit bad is actually just a long hangover from focusing on getting in some core priorities | 20:17 |
| ameade | markwash: do we want to do something like nova does? or reinstate formal review day assignments? | 20:17 |
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| markwash | there are some changes going into reviewstats soon that should probably help us get a grip on about how many reviews are needed per day | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | I don't think a 'review process' is what we need, we just need to keep an eye on those stats and make sure we don't leave patches un-reviewed. | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | and that the reviews help moving Glance plan forward | 20:18 |
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| markwash | ameade: maybe. . but gosh I kinda hope we can avoid it personally | 20:18 |
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| markwash | lifeless said something at the summit to me that I thought was pretty great | 20:19 |
| markwash | reviewing should be like brushing your teeth | 20:19 |
| markwash | just a habit that you do 3 times every day | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | yeah | 20:19 |
| ameade | yeah | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | and it's very personal | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | I mean, the workflow | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | and the way people organize the queue | 20:20 |
| zhiyan | markwash: +1 | 20:20 |
| markwash | flaper87: yeah I think organizing the queue is a big question | 20:20 |
| markwash | so on the one hand, I was wondering a lot about top vs bottom feeding in terms of what to review first | 20:20 |
| markwash | but both of those have some casualties as well | 20:20 |
| markwash | for example, Dirk Mueller's patches that recently landed | 20:21 |
| markwash | he had these huge cleanup patches | 20:21 |
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| markwash | that kept catching rebase conflicts | 20:21 |
| markwash | since they weren't high priority, they didn't really get picked out at the top | 20:21 |
| markwash | but since he had to keep uploading to fix conflicts, it never fell to the bottom exactly either | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | In those cases, a straight ping is worth it | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | imho | 20:22 |
| ameade | how are any of these thoughts different that what we are doing now? | 20:22 |
| markwash | yes, and maybe we just need to encourage that behavior from submitters | 20:22 |
| ameade | that sounds terrible, do you mean pinging every time they have a patch sitting around? | 20:23 |
| markwash | I wonder if we just push extra hard to get our queue length smaller, it might be easier to just scan the list and see what is most important | 20:23 |
| markwash | ameade: only every time they've had a patch sitting around for 3-4 weeks with no reviews :-) | 20:23 |
| ameade | haha gotcha | 20:23 |
| markwash | ameade: well, for one difference, right now we're averaging about 1.5 reviews per day per active reviewer over the past 30 days | 20:24 |
| markwash | maybe that number needs to be 4 per day to shrink the queue for a while | 20:24 |
| ameade | as long as we review faster than they need it | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | yeah! | 20:25 |
| nikhil | that makes me wonder if I should pester people for reviewing some else's patches | 20:26 |
| markwash | nikhil: hmm, thats a good point | 20:26 |
| nikhil | and get some credit poits for it :) | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | so, we've never had a bad-reviewers reputation, AFAIK. This is good. However, since we've getting more contributors and new exiting things going on, we may want to start dedicating a bit more time to it | 20:26 |
| nikhil | see this was all planned ;=) | 20:26 |
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| zhiyan | markwash: do you think every patch should have a bug id or bp ? except oslo sync-up changes? i mean what's the rule to make sure if a patch is important or not, sometime i need a priority. | 20:27 |
| markwash | if we see some reviews that look +2 to us, but need another core and might soon catch a rebase conflict, it would be a good idea to ping other folks in #openstack-glance | 20:27 |
| markwash | zhiyan: yeah, I kinda do think we need that. but on the other hand if we don't have a good system for ensuring those bps/bugs are well written, it might not really help | 20:28 |
| markwash | I've seen a lot of silly bps for oneoff changes in nova | 20:28 |
| ameade | i keep seeing C&P for bug desc and commit msgs | 20:28 |
| markwash | C&P ? | 20:28 |
| ameade | copy and paste | 20:28 |
| markwash | gross | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | ameade: WTF ? | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | (plop) | 20:29 |
| ameade | lol | 20:29 |
| nikhil | +1 to what ameade noticed | 20:29 |
| markwash | do we think we need more core reviewers? | 20:30 |
| ameade | nope | 20:30 |
| flaper87 | I don't think so, for now | 20:30 |
| markwash | I for one really wish gerrit would just incorporate the more sensible parts of reviewstats and use that for sorting :-/ | 20:31 |
| ameade | what do you guys do exactly to figure out what to review? | 20:32 |
| ameade | i usually look at what is sitting aroudn the longest without -1s | 20:32 |
| markwash | I often just drop to the bottom of the list and scan upwards | 20:32 |
| markwash | lately I've been having better luck treating the glance review email notifications as a todo list | 20:32 |
| markwash | but obviously that latter approach won't fix the backlog | 20:33 |
| ameade | monty taylor had a good email a month or two back about how he organizes reviews in gerrit | 20:33 |
| * flaper87 bookmarked those links | 20:33 | |
| markwash | hmm, I should look at that again | 20:34 |
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| markwash | got links? | 20:34 |
| zhiyan | i have a todo list, including: 1) review ping, 2) team-room auto notification. 3) which I think important | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | I usually start from the bottom and look for patches that fix bugs and or sound like important. Then I do the same for the rest if nothing pops-up | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | I pick a bunch of them | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | and stick to those as much as possible, in order to be able to give good feedback and not having to refresh my memory everytime I open the review | 20:35 |
| nikhil | flaper87: please share those links with us | 20:35 |
| * flaper87 looking | 20:35 | |
| ashwini | why not have one core reviewer on call per week and set a target for that week | 20:35 |
| ameade | i got the links, i use them all the time..looking for the email online | 20:36 |
| markwash | I'm not sure if anyone else has this problem, but sometimes I look at a review and I"m just like "what? I have no clue what you're doing" but it doesn't really feel like a -1 territory | 20:36 |
| nikhil | I wanted to point out that one thing ameade has done good job in general is to take a deeper look at unit/functional tests while reviewing and would like to encourage in general amogst everyone | 20:36 |
| zhiyan | hehe, i have same feeling | 20:36 |
| markwash | like maybe I'm just not fully switched to the context of the review | 20:36 |
| flaper87 | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015705.html | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | there you go guys | 20:37 |
| markwash | so I'll spend time reading code but then at the end of it I have no comment, and no + or - to add | 20:37 |
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| ameade | flaper87: nice | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | markwash: if what the patch does is not clear, I think a better commit message is worth it | 20:38 |
| nikhil | markwash: I got confused the other day too, when you said not a -1 on the patch we'r reviewing for correcting the locals | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | also, a good thing to do is, if we spend some time figuring out what a piece of code does, we could drop a comment there for the next reviewer | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | and to double check whether what we figured out is correct or not | 20:38 |
| ameade | markwash, flaper87: yeah i like to think that if i get confused reading a patch it was for a reason and maybe it could be clearer | 20:38 |
| nikhil | I guess you don't feel strongly about such MPs ? Would you like to encourage the same? | 20:39 |
| markwash | okay cool, souncds like I should be commenting about my confusion if I have any | 20:39 |
| markwash | nikhil: I guess I use +0 sometimes to avoid the stigma of a -1 | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | I prefer -1 that 0 | 20:40 |
| markwash | but do you think that leaves submitters more confused? | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | at least it shows somebody already took a look at it | 20:40 |
| ameade | yeah +1 to -1 | 20:40 |
| lifeless | it's a stock queuing problem | 20:40 |
| lifeless | sorry, responding to ages back | 20:41 |
| markwash | ha I hoped I'd summon you! | 20:41 |
| lifeless | if your review queue steady state isn't approximately empty, when a big burst does arrive, you'll be killed | 20:41 |
| nikhil | markwash: I guess that might have been a bad example, however sometimes I've observed that submitters don't pay attentions to the review if it's not a -1 | 20:41 |
| nikhil | (bad example as we'r working with him real time) | 20:41 |
| markwash | nikhil: i think that's good feedback | 20:41 |
| lifeless | you may be overwhelmed temporarily by a big burst but if there is built up capacity in the team it will go away fairly quickly | 20:41 |
| ameade | what other problems to people experience doing reviews? | 20:43 |
| markwash | I think so far, possibly with the exception of my reviews, we haven't had a big problem with review quality | 20:43 |
| markwash | but if we're making a push for more reviews, its an important thing to keep in mind | 20:44 |
| zhiyan | some time i think it will be better if we have a "global" list which ordered by importance, and reviewers can focus one those changes.. sometime our effort are little scattering.. | 20:44 |
| lifeless | zhiyan: why? | 20:44 |
| markwash | yeah I wonder if there is a good place for that? | 20:44 |
| ameade | markwash: what happend to reviewday? | 20:44 |
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| ameade | https://github.com/dprince/reviewday | 20:44 |
| lifeless | ameade: http://status.openstack.org/reviews/ | 20:45 |
| lifeless | the problem with treating reviews as a priority queue | 20:45 |
| ameade | ah there we go | 20:45 |
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| lifeless | is that it assumes there is code we don't want to land | 20:45 |
| ameade | yeah | 20:45 |
| ameade | starvation | 20:45 |
| lifeless | -and don't want to even review. | 20:45 |
| nikhil | the other day iccha, hemanth and I were thinking about pair reviewing | 20:45 |
| lifeless | But this is false: we're a community, the reviews are something we do ourselves to ourselves to keep quality up | 20:46 |
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| nikhil | (could be virtual parining too) | 20:46 |
| lifeless | and the burden comes from code we write | 20:46 |
| ameade | frankly, we just need to review more...doesn't matter what or when, it's all important | 20:46 |
| zhiyan | lifeless: because each reviewers has different review todo list, and some change only has one +2, but it need wait more time to get another one. and sometime, it need rebase manually when it get two +2. | 20:46 |
| nikhil | I feel like sometimes it's hard to understand the basic underlying approach from single point of view | 20:46 |
| lifeless | zhiyan: ok, so the word 'importance' is overloaded :) | 20:46 |
| nikhil | however, it helps when you talk it through with someone else | 20:46 |
| lifeless | zhiyan: I'm fully in favor of driving partially reviewed patches all the way to landed before reviewing additional patches | 20:46 |
| markwash | I think there is one good reason for sharing some priority, and that is just that it might help to have a few core folks working in concert to reduce the current backlog | 20:46 |
| markwash | hopefully a priority queue aspect goes away when the queue is small | 20:47 |
| lifeless | from a queuing perspective that keeps the average time waiting for reviewers lower | 20:47 |
| lifeless | which reduces rework (rebasing, catching up with changing apis etc) | 20:47 |
| markwash | ah okay makes sense | 20:47 |
| markwash | is there a good filter for just "this already has a +2 from somebody other than you" in gerrit? | 20:47 |
| lifeless | I think so - see chris jone's little python script | 20:48 |
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| flaper87 | there is | 20:48 |
| flaper87 | I think one of the Monty's queries do that | 20:48 |
| markwash | at this point, we've spent about 35 minutes with some really great discussion of this topic | 20:49 |
| lifeless | so one thing that might work with todays gerrit is several different custom searches - one with other +2s, one with +1s, one un-reviewed, and finally check for -1's with the submitter dissenting | 20:49 |
| markwash | are there any 1 or 2 things we all want to do to try to improve over the next week? | 20:49 |
| * lifeless shuts up :) | 20:49 | |
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| markwash | lifeless: no worries, thanks for your suggestions! | 20:49 |
| nikhil | how about pair reviewing thing? | 20:50 |
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| nikhil | it helped me last night reviewing a patch with zhiyan | 20:50 |
| nikhil | it speeds up the process much faster (thought that was something I was working on) | 20:51 |
| markwash | that sounds like a fine suggestion | 20:51 |
| dosaboy | beer? | 20:51 |
| markwash | another I would have, is I know I want to try to review at least 4-5 patches a day at least until the queue goes down | 20:51 |
| nikhil | s/thought/though/ | 20:51 |
| ameade | dosaboy: +1 | 20:51 |
| flaper87 | dosaboy: beer speeds up reviews, for sure! | 20:51 |
| flaper87 | :D | 20:51 |
| markwash | +2 beer | 20:51 |
| zhiyan | nikhil: markwash, actually it since nikhil's one just on the top of my todo list :) | 20:51 |
| ameade | i think for me personally, i need to set aside large chunks of time for reviews | 20:52 |
| * flaper87 too | 20:52 | |
| flaper87 | also, lets try to review patches already reviewed and then tackle the rest down | 20:52 |
| ameade | i'm so slow at reviewing a lot of times i only get half way through before i am doing something else | 20:52 |
| nikhil | or even flush of +2s ;) | 20:52 |
| ameade | flaper87: +1 | 20:52 |
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| zhiyan | sometime, i hope have a -3 button, to ask committer never push it up :) | 20:52 |
| markwash | haha | 20:52 |
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| ameade | lol undo | 20:52 |
| markwash | we do have some persistent reviewers | 20:53 |
| markwash | constantly restoring after -1 auto-abandon | 20:53 |
| dosaboy | zhiyan: isn't that what the "Do Not Merge" is for? | 20:53 |
| markwash | s/reviewers/submitters | 20:53 |
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| flaper87 | dosaboy: nope, that'd be for 'Do not merge and don't, ever, do it again' | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | :D | 20:53 |
| zhiyan | dosaboy: yes, but author can push next PS also. i mean "blocking" this at here. | 20:53 |
| dosaboy | ah ok | 20:53 |
| zhiyan | flaper87: cool | 20:54 |
| markwash | -3 you have lost the internet | 20:54 |
| markwash | okay | 20:54 |
| nikhil | :D | 20:54 |
| zhiyan | haha | 20:54 |
| markwash | okay, I guess its time for open discussion | 20:54 |
| zhiyan | dosaboy: you have some important change want to review, rigtht? | 20:55 |
| zhiyan | 4 items, iirc | 20:55 |
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| markwash | I'm going to try to just review more, without pushing it to heroic proportions | 20:55 |
| dosaboy | well, i have a few patches that have been around for up to two months | 20:55 |
| dosaboy | i kinda discussed them at ods but they evolve arounbd race conditon fixes for v1 api | 20:55 |
| rosmaita | markwash: before reviewing, could you release a new version of python-glanceclient to pypi ? | 20:56 |
| dosaboy | whcih would be supersceded eventaully by a taskflow/statemachine approach | 20:56 |
| markwash | #topic Open Discussion | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:56 | |
| dosaboy | so questio is, do we want these to go throught and if so can we please move forwards with them | 20:56 |
| markwash | rosmaita: gah yes I suppose so | 20:56 |
| markwash | dosaboy: hmm, I don't think taskflow will fix anything with v1 | 20:56 |
| markwash | the two shall never touch | 20:56 |
| dosaboy | e.g. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/50457/ | 20:57 |
| dosaboy | markwash: yeah there is that too | 20:57 |
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| dosaboy | i was not clear on what the outlook was | 20:57 |
| dosaboy | so i still think we should go wih these patches | 20:57 |
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| esheffield_ | rosmaita: +1000 | 20:58 |
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| dosaboy | i'm guessing you guys are gonna take a similar approach to what cinder are doing | 20:58 |
| markwash | dosaboy: sort of, not exactly | 20:59 |
| markwash | cinder already has a remote rpc worker | 20:59 |
| dosaboy | right | 20:59 |
| markwash | that is located close to some important held state | 20:59 |
| markwash | for us I think the remote worker will initially be optional | 20:59 |
| markwash | but also, we'll probably land a good bit of stuff before integrating with taskflow | 21:00 |
| markwash | depending on the path of least resistence | 21:00 |
| markwash | all right, thanks everybody | 21:00 |
| markwash | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 14 21:00:46 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2013/glance.2013-11-14-20.00.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2013/glance.2013-11-14-20.00.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2013/glance.2013-11-14-20.00.log.html | 21:00 |
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| s3wong | Is this the Neutron IPv6 meeting? | 21:20 |
| s3wong | Never mind, first one next Thursday | 21:21 |
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