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| ajo | hi :) | 14:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| ajo | hi nyechiel | 14:01 |
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| sgordon_ | >.> | 14:01 |
| nyechiel | hi ajo | 14:01 |
| sgordon_ | #startmeeting TelcoWG | 14:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 19 14:02:04 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sgordon_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: TelcoWG)" | 14:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'telcowg' | 14:02 |
| sgordon_ | #chair amitry | 14:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: amitry sgordon_ | 14:02 |
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| sgordon_ | #topic roll call | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: TelcoWG)" | 14:02 | |
| mkoderer | hi | 14:02 |
| DaSchab | hi | 14:02 |
| ybabenko | hi | 14:02 |
| sgordon_ | hi all, who is here for the telco working group meeting (formerly nfv) | 14:02 |
| amitry | Hello | 14:02 |
| b3nt_pin | hi | 14:02 |
| amuller | hiya | 14:02 |
| margaret__ | hi | 14:02 |
| dgollub | hi | 14:02 |
| ybabenko | Deutsche Telekom | 14:02 |
| yamahata | hello | 14:02 |
| ajo | me :) hi | 14:02 |
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| angelomatarazzo | Hi | 14:03 |
| margaret__ | I'm AT&T | 14:03 |
| nyechiel | hi | 14:03 |
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| amitry | Comcast | 14:03 |
| mkoderer | Deutsche Telekom++ | 14:03 |
| sgordon_ | excellent, welcome all | 14:03 |
| jannis_rake-reve | hi, deutsche telekom | 14:03 |
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| ybabenko | Hi T-Labs >) | 14:03 |
| jannis_rake-reve | :) | 14:03 |
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| sgordon_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nfv-meeting-agenda | 14:03 |
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| dkusidlo_ | hi | 14:03 |
| sgordon_ | agenda is at the above location, feel free to add additional items if you need to | 14:03 |
| sgordon_ | #topic wiki gardening | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "wiki gardening (Meeting topic: TelcoWG)" | 14:04 | |
| sgordon_ | #info team page moved to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup | 14:04 |
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| sgordon_ | i got a start on updating the team page | 14:04 |
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| sgordon_ | there is still refinement of mission/scope to do to add the clarity that seemed to be missing | 14:05 |
| sgordon_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup#Mission_statement_and_scope | 14:05 |
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| sgordon_ | i have split out the membership page | 14:05 |
| sgordon_ | and also intend to split out the use cases page(s) | 14:05 |
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| sgordon_ | though we still need to move towards a different way of tracking these imo | 14:05 |
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| sgordon_ | ideas tossed around at summit were google doc or possibly storyboard | 14:06 |
| sgordon_ | i still need to do some investigation of the latter | 14:06 |
| sgordon_ | #action sgordon_ to investigate current state of storyboard and report back | 14:06 |
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| mkoderer | sgordon_: but we can already start to create some google docs? or should we wait? | 14:06 |
| sgordon_ | mkoderer, i dont think we necessarily need to wait | 14:07 |
| sgordon_ | after all we already have *some* use cases now on the wiki | 14:07 |
| sgordon_ | atm there is very variable depth though | 14:07 |
| sgordon_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup#Session_Border_Controller | 14:07 |
| sgordon_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup#Virtual_IMS_Core | 14:07 |
| margaret__ | If I wanted to add other use cases where do i this - on the wiki? | 14:07 |
| sgordon_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup#VLAN_Trunking | 14:07 |
| ybabenko | sgordon > how to we decide/prioritize on use-cases? What are the criteria? | 14:07 |
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| sgordon_ | margaret__, i think on the wiki in the first instance | 14:07 |
| sgordon_ | margaret__, my thinking is to create https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup/UseCases and link from there | 14:08 |
| DaSchab | Virtual_IMS_Core and Session_Border_Controller are more or less ervices not a real use-case, isn't it? | 14:08 |
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| sgordon_ | DaSchab, that's up to the group - atm it's the best we have | 14:08 |
| aveiga | DaSchab: I'd argue that they imply a use-case, though | 14:08 |
| ybabenko | "some" use-cases does not sound compeling to me - i think we should work on real pain points first? | 14:08 |
| margaret__ | what is the goal of the use case? | 14:08 |
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| sgordon_ | the rest are directly the ETSI use cases which arent as useful from an openstack developer perspective | 14:08 |
| margaret__ | I think the goal of the use cases should be to flush out openstack - which is instantiation of a VNF service | 14:09 |
| sgordon_ | +1 | 14:09 |
| ybabenko | Use-case is a a telco scenario to be implemented on top of infra/open stack | 14:09 |
| DaSchab | treu | 14:09 |
| DaSchab | true | 14:09 |
| margaret__ | We are proposing this type of use cases in OPNFV as we speak - we can also submit it here | 14:09 |
| margaret__ | But our goal is to actually try and execute it with openstack, odl.... | 14:10 |
| sgordon_ | right | 14:10 |
| sgordon_ | we can also link to those directly if that makes sense rather than repeating | 14:10 |
| sgordon_ | though ultimately we do need to provide enough use case info in a blueprint/spec that developers can understand why we're requesting/doing something | 14:10 |
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| jannis_rake-reve | does it make sense to have use cases in there that do not need alterations/ additions to OS? | 14:10 |
| ybabenko | margaret - let us stay in openstack community and use the tooling provided here - why double the work and do it in two places? | 14:10 |
| margaret__ | oh that would be great - Metaswitch also submitted their SBC to OPNFV and here i noticed | 14:11 |
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| jannis_rake-reve | e.g. Clearwater IMS | 14:11 |
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| ybabenko | one use case for me would be a service chain use-case | 14:11 |
| ybabenko | deployed either in one DC or multiple DC | 14:12 |
| jannis_rake-reve | ybabenko: could you be more specific pls? | 14:12 |
| sgordon_ | so, it seems there is a lot of enthusiasm to provide use cases and what is perhaps needed is some structure/guidance on where to put them? | 14:12 |
| jannis_rake-reve | as far as i understand we need a reference implementation eventually | 14:12 |
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| ybabenko | service chain is a number of function connected in a particular way to produce a specific telco service. One example could be business VPN usecase with firewall. But again it is just an example | 14:12 |
| mkoderer | sgordon_: a template would be useful ;) | 14:13 |
| amitry | Also, maybe a default template that encourages enough depth | 14:13 |
| jannis_rake-reve | sgordon_: +1 | 14:13 |
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| sgordon_ | mkoderer, why do i have a feeling i took that action item :) | 14:13 |
| mkoderer | sgordon_: :P | 14:13 |
| ybabenko | sgordon yes | 14:13 |
| sgordon_ | amitry, right - i dont think the section in the specs template does this enough | 14:13 |
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| sgordon_ | #info need structure/guidance on where to put use cases | 14:13 |
| sgordon_ | #info need a template that encourages enough depth | 14:14 |
| ajo | +1 | 14:14 |
| sgordon_ | #action sgordon_ to update wiki structure and provide a draft template for discussion | 14:14 |
| mkoderer | +1 | 14:14 |
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| ybabenko | need prioriy criteria - what is important for telco folks here? what is missing? | 14:14 |
| sgordon_ | now on that note, do we think it's still useful to keep the minimal descriptions of the ETSI use cases on the page: | 14:14 |
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| sgordon_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup#ETSI-NFV_Use_Cases_-_High_Level_Description | 14:14 |
| sgordon_ | the gap analysis document is relatively useful but i am not sure about the rest | 14:15 |
| DaSchab | do we have the same understanding what the scope of a use-case should be? | 14:15 |
| sgordon_ | DaSchab, i think margaret__ summed it up well earlier "I think the goal of the use cases should be to flush out openstack - which is instantiation of a VNF service" | 14:15 |
| sgordon_ | does anyone see additional scope on top of this at least initially? | 14:16 |
| margaret__ | I agree the HL use cases aren't useful - you need more specific instantiation flows | 14:16 |
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| ybabenko | Use-case is realisation of specific telco service on top of plain open stack? | 14:16 |
| DaSchab | ...but not the service itself | 14:16 |
| sgordon_ | ybabenko, i think it helps illustrate something "real" to the wider community | 14:16 |
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| ybabenko | no. not the service itself. service comes from some service folks | 14:16 |
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| margaret__ | as part of telco instantiation - SDN controllers come into the picture. | 14:16 |
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| ybabenko | margaret - can you clarify? | 14:17 |
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| sgordon_ | #topic use case scope | 14:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "use case scope (Meeting topic: TelcoWG)" | 14:17 | |
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| sgordon_ | #info need to agree on scope/intent of use cases | 14:17 |
| margaret__ | If you instantiate a VPN service - you may need to instantiate a vPE. well connectivity between vPE, TOR, LAN, WAN is needed - so where is this done? (SDN controller is one) | 14:18 |
| ybabenko | SDN controller is not part of open stack - it will need to come as an addon - openstack will provide the necessary API via Neutron towards SDN controller | 14:18 |
| margaret__ | will connect to vPE... | 14:18 |
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| sgordon_ | question there is arguably, how much of this needs to be orchestrated using OpenStack APIs | 14:18 |
| sgordon_ | ideally | 14:18 |
| sgordon_ | ybabenko, right | 14:18 |
| margaret__ | yes but you now need an SDN controller of some sort to maybe flush out neutron | 14:18 |
| sgordon_ | ybabenko, and i think that is the key point - as regardless of controller backend we need a common API yes? | 14:18 |
| ybabenko | For us it is important that we have stable neutron API | 14:19 |
| ybabenko | as we would expect SDN vendor to comply to it | 14:19 |
| margaret__ | placement becomes important due to latency - does that exist in openstack? | 14:19 |
| matrohon | margaret__: VPN services does'nt need a vPE, we have a proposal for do it in neutron agent directly | 14:19 |
| amitry | Maybe the step one running VNF on top of openstack, step two orchestration using openstack apis | 14:19 |
| matrohon | ybabenko : +1 (from Orange) | 14:19 |
| sgordon_ | #info "do we have the same understanding what the scope of a use-case should be?" | 14:20 |
| margaret__ | matrohon_ don't understand why you say VPN doesn't need a vPE | 14:20 |
| sgordon_ | #info "Use-case is realisation of specific telco service on top of plain open stack?" | 14:20 |
| sgordon_ | #info "Maybe the step one running VNF on top of openstack, step two orchestration using openstack apis" | 14:20 |
| sgordon_ | so there are a number of areas touched on in the above conversation | 14:20 |
| jannis_rake-reve | i believe it is also important to keep the API stable and focus in its core: so dont just add vendor feature to the api | 14:20 |
| sgordon_ | as amitry notes | 14:20 |
| sgordon_ | a good use case would ideally illustrate how these would be exercised in an ideal case | 14:21 |
| sgordon_ | without delving into implementation so much | 14:21 |
| ybabenko | Do we have a common understanding of SDN in this context? Does everyone see it as an additional component plugged via openstack api? | 14:21 |
| ybabenko | Who "orchestrates" the stuff? The SDN controller? | 14:21 |
| matrohon | margaret_ : the vPE can be the l3 agent or even the l2 agent from neutron. what is missing is the compatible dataplane and BGP speaker | 14:22 |
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| jannis_rake-reve | margaret__: what do you mean by placement | 14:22 |
| margaret__ | That is the question - who connects everything and decides when to call the orchstrator to spin up the VNF | 14:22 |
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| DaSchab | isn't that the job of an orchestrator? | 14:22 |
| sgordon_ | +1 | 14:22 |
| sgordon_ | but perhaps we have some terminology overload | 14:23 |
| sgordon_ | when saying orchestrator | 14:23 |
| jannis_rake-reve | margaret__: should OS be the overall orchestrator or rather "just" the infrastructure rchestrator | 14:23 |
| ybabenko | BGP speaker is the gateway router,right? Or a VM running stuff like Quagga | 14:23 |
| jannis_rake-reve | sgordon_: yes | 14:23 |
| sgordon_ | as there are potentially different levels of orchestration | 14:23 |
| ybabenko | Jannis +1 | 14:23 |
| DaSchab | +1 | 14:23 |
| jannis_rake-reve | Should we reference the NFV architecture first or is that too high level? | 14:24 |
| DaSchab | we should decouple application from infrastructure orchestration | 14:24 |
| margaret__ | matrohon_: I assume it isn't sufficient for us but that is another debate | 14:24 |
| jannis_rake-reve | DaSchab: yes | 14:24 |
| DaSchab | IaaS as demarcation line | 14:24 |
| sgordon_ | jannis_rake-reve, i think it's useful at a high level for this group but not so much for broader community | 14:24 |
| sgordon_ | jannis_rake-reve, i think it's useful for defining scope of this group though | 14:24 |
| jannis_rake-reve | DaSchab: although one might argue infrastructure goes beyond the OS datacentre | 14:24 |
| sgordon_ | as i primarily see it as describing use of OpenStack as a VIM | 14:24 |
| ybabenko | So, can we vote on the start "use-case"? | 14:24 |
| sgordon_ | and how an external orchestrator (whatever that may be) would use it | 14:25 |
| margaret__ | So that is the next debate - what is the role of an SDN controller vs an orchestrator - we have our view which I know is different from others | 14:25 |
| jannis_rake-reve | sgordon_: i agree | 14:25 |
| mkoderer | sgordon_: I think we should move on and bring that topics to the ML | 14:25 |
| aveiga | margaret__: that's the real issue here, no matter what everyone will hav a different definition | 14:25 |
| sgordon_ | +1 | 14:25 |
| dgollub | I guess what would be interesting for the community ... to clarify what this *orchestrator* actually is would be to fill/clarify following gap: TOSCA CSAR (or HOT) ----> ....*big orchestrator gap*.... ---> running VNF | 14:25 |
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| aveiga | do we define some of these thigns explicitly to avoid confusion? | 14:25 |
| matrohon | margaret__ : +1 :) sorry for the troll | 14:25 |
| sgordon_ | my proposal would be that i organize the wiki and draft a template | 14:25 |
| sgordon_ | people can propose use cases, and then we can debate priorities, appropriateness etc | 14:26 |
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| ybabenko | sgordon +1 | 14:26 |
| amitry | Sgordon_: +1 | 14:26 |
| aveiga | sgordon_: I think we should really have a glossary in here for definining terms like "orchestrator" | 14:26 |
| sgordon_ | i think this also drifts into the clarification of group scope | 14:26 |
| aveiga | insofar as we are able | 14:26 |
| sgordon_ | aveiga, +1 i think that's a good idea | 14:26 |
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| sgordon_ | we had discussed a glossary previously (as nfv team) | 14:27 |
| sgordon_ | and didnt want to open that can of worms but i think a limited one would be good | 14:27 |
| aveiga | I don't think it's optional anymore, as we have differing opinions even within this group | 14:27 |
| sgordon_ | does anyone want to take an action on the glossary aspect? | 14:27 |
| jannis_rake-reve | aveiga: I would really not like to reinvent the veil here but have a reference to sth existing, either a model, standard or implementation example | 14:27 |
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| ajo | aveiga +1 for the glossary | 14:27 |
| aveiga | jannis_rake-reve: right, but which reference do you want to use? | 14:27 |
| margaret__ | Should refer to ETSI ISG NFV docs on terminology before we re-invent... And then build from there | 14:27 |
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| margaret__ | This also has been debated in ETSI ISG NFV | 14:28 |
| jannis_rake-reve | aveiga: I do not know since it depends on the people involved in this group | 14:28 |
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| jannis_rake-reve | margaret__: yes, maybe | 14:28 |
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| aveiga | jannis_rake-reve: that's why I brought it up, since it can vary wildly | 14:28 |
| sgordon_ | #action sgordon_ to kick off M/L discussion about template for use cases | 14:28 |
| sgordon_ | #info need a glossary for overloaded terms, e.g. orchestration, to define common understanding | 14:28 |
| dgollub | I guess it would help if we could start mapping the ETSI NFV MANO components to existing OpenStack components/services .... | 14:29 |
| sgordon_ | #info should refer to ETSI ISG NFV docs first | 14:29 |
| jannis_rake-reve | sgordon_: how can we get started with the gloss? | 14:29 |
| sgordon_ | jannis_rake-reve, i would suggest just on the wiki | 14:29 |
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| sgordon_ | either as a subsection of https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup | 14:29 |
| sgordon_ | or create https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup/Glossary | 14:29 |
| mkoderer | sgordon_: +1 for a new page | 14:30 |
| ajo | I'm new here, but are those ETSI NFV documents available? | 14:30 |
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| margaret__ | I can pull in the ETSI terminology doc - I just can't attend these IRCs alot since this is my first one | 14:30 |
| margaret__ | yes docs are available | 14:30 |
| akhila-chetlapal | would the NFV orchestration be of interest to this group | 14:30 |
| ajo | margaret__, can they be linked to the wiki? | 14:30 |
| jannis_rake-reve | ajo: yes :http://www.etsi.org/technologies-clusters/technologies/nfv | 14:30 |
| sgordon_ | #link http://www.etsi.org/technologies-clusters/technologies/nfv | 14:31 |
| margaret__ | there you go! | 14:31 |
| mkoderer | akhila-chetlapal: we have it on the agenda for today | 14:31 |
| ajo | thanks! :) | 14:31 |
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| jannis_rake-reve | i believe we can use them as a reference but not take them as a SPoT | 14:31 |
| sgordon_ | akhila-chetlapal, per the enthusiastic discussion above it depends what we mean by orchestration ;) | 14:31 |
| ybabenko | mkodere +1 | 14:31 |
| sgordon_ | ok being mindful of time, who wants to take the action to update the wiki wrt glossary? | 14:32 |
| jannis_rake-reve | i have seen too much lobbying in that area, we need to focus on the ability to implement short to medium term | 14:32 |
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| jannis_rake-reve | sgordon_: shouldnt that be a grp effort anyway? | 14:32 |
| sgordon_ | jannis_rake-reve, someone still needs to create the page etc | 14:33 |
| jannis_rake-reve | sgordon_: sure put me down | 14:33 |
| sgordon_ | i also dont want to drift the group to far towards committee style interaction - i think it is fine for someone to propose something on the wiki | 14:33 |
| akhila-chetlapal | am specifically referring to the VNF lifecycle management which cannot happen via neutron plug-in components or SDN controllers | 14:33 |
| sgordon_ | and then we debate/discuss either here or on M/L | 14:33 |
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| sgordon_ | #action jannis_rake-reve to create glossary page on wiki | 14:34 |
| jannis_rake-reve | how can we make sure that we dont overload on the gloss and drill down to the specification of the use cases? | 14:34 |
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| sgordon_ | jannis_rake-reve, i would keep it limited to terms where we have contention specific to the openstack context | 14:34 |
| amitry | sgordon_: +1 | 14:34 |
| sgordon_ | that arent covered in the ETSI material | 14:34 |
| ajo | sgordon_: +1 | 14:35 |
| akhila-chetlapal | i can put up a blueprint for review and update that based on comments so that we have a context for VNF orchestration | 14:35 |
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| sgordon_ | #info keep glossary limited to terms where there is contention specific to the openstack context that aren't covered in the ETSI material | 14:35 |
| akhila-chetlapal | or should it be in the NFV wiki | 14:35 |
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| sgordon_ | akhila-chetlapal, there is an item on orchestration in the other discussion that i think mkoderer | 14:36 |
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| sgordon_ | let's try and get to it then | 14:36 |
| sgordon_ | #topic Third Party CI | 14:36 |
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| sgordon_ | there has been some ongoing discussion about the need for third party CI for some of the functionality that was implemented in juno and is being expanded in kilo | 14:36 |
| sgordon_ | i dont think there is much to discuss atm other than that the relevant parties are working on it | 14:36 |
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| sgordon_ | e.g. imendel, ahoban, ijw, russellb and myself | 14:37 |
| sgordon_ | #info third-party ci work and discussion continuing | 14:37 |
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| sgordon_ | #topic Meeting times | 14:37 |
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| sgordon_ | i proposed on mailing list an alternate time of Wednesday's @ 2200 UTC (starting next week) | 14:38 |
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| sgordon_ | so we would alternate between 1400 UTC one week and 2200 UTC the next | 14:38 |
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| sgordon_ | i have not had any feedback/positive or negative on this but will confirm on monday hopefully | 14:38 |
| sgordon_ | #action sgordon_ to lock in meeting time for next week on monday barring further feedback | 14:39 |
| sgordon_ | i am going to skip over vlan trunking and come back to it if we have time | 14:39 |
| amitry | Isn't next Wednesday right before thanksgiving? | 14:39 |
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| sgordon_ | amitry, yes | 14:39 |
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| sgordon_ | so in general expecting not the highest attendance regardless of time | 14:39 |
| aveiga | amitry: mostly American holiday ;) | 14:39 |
| amitry | True | 14:40 |
| jannis_rake-reve | sgordon_: i think for EU that alternation is fine | 14:40 |
| aveiga | that timeslot is for APAC, so we should still have the meeting | 14:40 |
| sgordon_ | i live in the true white north so no holiday for me though | 14:40 |
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| aveiga | yours was last month :) | 14:40 |
| sgordon_ | :) | 14:40 |
| jannis_rake-reve | back to topic :) | 14:40 |
| aveiga | sorry | 14:40 |
| sgordon_ | we can pick up the most important piece (use cases) via M/L though | 14:40 |
| amitry | Sorry | 14:40 |
| jannis_rake-reve | aveiga: np | 14:40 |
| sgordon_ | #topic telco orchestration | 14:41 |
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| mkoderer | all right | 14:41 |
| sgordon_ | mkoderer, you had added https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/telco_orchestration | 14:41 |
| sgordon_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/telco_orchestration | 14:41 |
| sgordon_ | #info (ijw) I think you'd need to make clear what orchestration would be an Openstack *service* and what would be better implemented as an Openstack *application* - what you've described there could be an application but pretty much all Openstack projects today are integrated services. | 14:41 |
| mkoderer | yep, so we just have a short meeting and put things together | 14:41 |
| jannis_rake-reve | mkoderer: i like it | 14:41 |
| sgordon_ | ian had added the above feedback to the agenda, other comments etc. welcome | 14:41 |
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| dgollub | wtr. to ijw comment: I guess by service a full "service" telcos are offering to customers is meant ... e.g. a full fledged IMS deployment | 14:42 |
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| sgordon_ | i think the key piece is the mapping on line 45 | 14:42 |
| mkoderer | yep... IMHO the goel would be to move as much as possible to OS components | 14:42 |
| sgordon_ | and drilling down on the gaps on line 57 in much more detail | 14:42 |
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| aveiga | dgollub: that's an application though, as OpenStack doesn't offer IMS | 14:43 |
| aveiga | it runs on top of it | 14:43 |
| sgordon_ | right | 14:43 |
| aveiga | it's a service from the telco POV, but an over the top application from OpenStack's view | 14:43 |
| sgordon_ | ian is coming at it from the pov | 14:43 |
| sgordon_ | of "im an openstack dev, what do i need to do to help you" | 14:43 |
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| aveiga | yup, and this WG should take a similar approach | 14:44 |
| dgollub | aveiga: good point ..then we should rewrite that statement and replace the term "service" with "application" | 14:44 |
| aveiga | otherwise the work won't get done | 14:44 |
| jannis_rake-reve | +1 | 14:44 |
| mkoderer | dgollub: +1 | 14:44 |
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| Jakiro | t+1 | 14:44 |
| DaSchab | +1 | 14:44 |
| mkoderer | I think we spend some more time in the etherpad | 14:44 |
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| mkoderer | and then I would like to create a document in the wiki | 14:45 |
| sgordon_ | #info need to rewrite to make clearer what's OpenStack "service" versus "application" | 14:45 |
| sgordon_ | that seems reasonable | 14:45 |
| dgollub | updated the etherpad ... | 14:45 |
| sgordon_ | etherpad is good for quick collaborative editing | 14:45 |
| ajo | +1 service->application | 14:45 |
| sgordon_ | once we have something everyone is comfortable with in terms of scope then it makes sense to put it in the wiki | 14:45 |
| mkoderer | sgordon_: +1 | 14:45 |
| jannis_rake-reve | agree | 14:45 |
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| akhila-chetlapal | agree | 14:46 |
| Jakiro | agree | 14:46 |
| sgordon_ | #info further edits to be done in etherpad, once consensus is reached move to wiki | 14:46 |
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| mkoderer | should we also start a M/L discussion and point to the etherpad? | 14:46 |
| sgordon_ | mkoderer, yes please | 14:46 |
| mkoderer | sgordon_: ok, sound good to me | 14:47 |
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| sgordon_ | note that since we renamed the group atm i am using the [NFV] and [telco] tags to denote these messages | 14:47 |
| jannis_rake-reve | maybe focus on things that help other interest groups first | 14:47 |
| sgordon_ | after a while probably makes sense to just use [telco] | 14:47 |
| sgordon_ | #action mkoderer to kick off mailing list thread to get wider feedback | 14:47 |
| sgordon_ | thanks for that | 14:48 |
| mkoderer | jannis_rake-reve: do you have some suggestions? | 14:48 |
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| dgollub | jannis_rake-reve: we put this on the etherpad "Improve/extend OpenStack orchestration in such gerneral/common way that they are useful also outside Telco-OpenStack setups" | 14:48 |
| jannis_rake-reve | mkoderer: IPv6 feature parity is the most obviious one | 14:48 |
| ybabenko | jannis it looks like a lot of tention is around neutron? | 14:48 |
| ybabenko | IPv6 +1 | 14:48 |
| ybabenko | multi-site openstack support ? | 14:48 |
| amitry | IPv6 +1 | 14:49 |
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| mkoderer | ybabenko: yep, we would like to spend some effort to build a multi region heat for instance | 14:49 |
| jannis_rake-reve | i would really like to have more standardized QoS APIs | 14:49 |
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| aveiga | federation (multi-site) is in progress but will be a requirement for proper service chaining | 14:49 |
| jannis_rake-reve | and not rely on telling OS to use SRIOV etc | 14:49 |
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| aveiga | jannis_rake-reve: +1 on QoS, you should talk to sc68cal... | 14:50 |
| amitry | QoS +1 | 14:50 |
| jannis_rake-reve | so rather specify certain limits / thresholds instead of tec | 14:50 |
| ybabenko | aveiga: is a must for carrier setup with openstack | 14:50 |
| jannis_rake-reve | sry -technology | 14:50 |
| matrohon | there was an agreement on Qos in neutron design summit | 14:50 |
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| ybabenko | jannis_rake-reve: QoS in OVS? | 14:50 |
| jannis_rake-reve | matrohon: thanks didnt know that | 14:50 |
| matrohon | a lightweight version of Qos should la,d, which deal only with traffic shaping | 14:51 |
| jannis_rake-reve | ybabenko: should not be specific to OVS, and I know that it is hard | 14:51 |
| dgollub | coming from the VNF vendor side: I would not underestimate the importance on setting an open source standard how to provision/configure an actual VNF ... if we as OS community take her the lead hopefully this will become the defacto standard without too much proprietary stuff on top of OS | 14:51 |
| ybabenko | matrohon: who manages QoS settings? OpenStack Neutron? | 14:51 |
| jannis_rake-reve | matrohon: yes as a start, do not overspecify | 14:51 |
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| matrohon | neutron yes; ovs and linuxbridge are targeted | 14:52 |
| ybabenko | jannis_rake-reve: QoS for overlays? | 14:52 |
| mkoderer | dgollub: are you refering to netconf yang? | 14:52 |
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| ybabenko | jannis_rake-reve: we are thinking mainly in terms of overlays, right? guess, few ppl will just use plaing VLAN Taggins | 14:52 |
| jannis_rake-reve | maybe we should take the QoS discussion to the etherpad | 14:52 |
| dgollub | mkoderer: for instance ... or what ever will be OS's answer to configure a VNF | 14:52 |
| jannis_rake-reve | as a subpoint of what makes VNFs special | 14:53 |
| jannis_rake-reve | as started by mkoderer | 14:53 |
| jannis_rake-reve | ybabenko: yes, but it should be agnostic | 14:53 |
| ybabenko | dgollub: where NFV manager gets complete topology information? provided we have multi-site. This issues is still open for me | 14:53 |
| dgollub | right now vendors pushing in the market with random VNFs ... in different format with different interfaces... and want to put their metadata for provision/configuration in random places | 14:53 |
| jannis_rake-reve | we are now appraoching top down and bottom up at the same time :) | 14:54 |
| aveiga | so, middle-out? | 14:54 |
| aveiga | ;) | 14:54 |
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| jannis_rake-reve | how about the expansion of https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/telco_orchestration or a dedicated pad | 14:54 |
| jannis_rake-reve | regarding "special" requirements | 14:54 |
| sgordon_ | i completely agree with the line of thought wrt QoS | 14:54 |
| aveiga | ybabenko: I'd caution against overlay-only. I'm a telco, and I run VLAN tags... | 14:54 |
| jannis_rake-reve | mkoderer: what do you think? | 14:55 |
| dgollub | ybabenko: that is open for me as well ... that is why I wanted to move the attention again on a higher layer on the OS stack ... | 14:55 |
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| jannis_rake-reve | aveiga: we are to and we mix overlay and underlay | 14:55 |
| jannis_rake-reve | *too | 14:55 |
| mkoderer | jannis_rake-reve: yep sounds good.. this it acutally a very important topic | 14:55 |
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| ybabenko | aveiga: see no chance taking l2 failure domains, security and multitenancy into account | 14:56 |
| margaret__ | another debate - overlay - underlay... | 14:56 |
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| jannis_rake-reve | margaret__: thats why i would like to keep it agnostic | 14:56 |
| jannis_rake-reve | as OS already does | 14:56 |
| margaret__ | agree | 14:57 |
| jannis_rake-reve | regarding the network creation e.g. | 14:57 |
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| sgordon_ | #info discussion aboute qos, underlay versus overlay, etc. ensues in the context of what makes a VNF special | 14:58 |
| sgordon_ | wary that we're reaching the top of the hour here | 14:58 |
| sgordon_ | lots of good discussion though | 14:58 |
| sgordon_ | some of these points i feel would be well suited to further hashing out in that etherpad or on the mailing list | 14:59 |
| jannis_rake-reve | does anyone have a link to the discussion on QoS in the summit and can link in the pad? | 14:59 |
| mkoderer | sgordon_: yep I think let's bringt it to the ML | 14:59 |
| sgordon_ | and ideally via use cases once i complete my action to provide a framework :) | 14:59 |
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| jannis_rake-reve | +1 | 14:59 |
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| sgordon_ | ok | 14:59 |
| margaret__ | what is ML? | 14:59 |
| jannis_rake-reve | mailing list | 14:59 |
| sgordon_ | mailing list, sorry | 14:59 |
| mkoderer | margaret__: Mailing list | 14:59 |
| margaret__ | ok thanks | 14:59 |
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| sgordon_ | inventing more terminology ... :) | 15:00 |
| sgordon_ | thanks all! | 15:00 |
| amuller | I'd like to mention that VLAN trunking in Neutron is kind of stuck | 15:00 |
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| matrohon | jannis_rake-reve : tahre agreement on Qos has been decided on friday, so no ehepad | 15:00 |
| sgordon_ | amuller, ah - i hadn't caught up on that thread and didn't see eric or ian so hadn't brought it up | 15:00 |
| ybabenko | sgordon_: thanks | 15:00 |
| sgordon_ | need to discuss in neutron meeting monday i guess? | 15:00 |
| amuller | sgordon_: We need to get Eric and Ian talking to one another and Neutron cores, otherwise it'll continue to be stuck | 15:01 |
| jannis_rake-reve | matrohon: thx | 15:01 |
| jannis_rake-reve | sgordon_: thanks for modding | 15:01 |
| amuller | in the upstream meeting or any other form | 15:01 |
| sgordon_ | #info amuller notes vlan trunking stuck - need eric and ian to discuss amongst themselves and with cores | 15:01 |
| sgordon_ | #action sgordon_ to follow up on vlan trunking | 15:01 |
| sgordon_ | thanks amuller | 15:01 |
| sgordon_ | #endmeeting | 15:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 19 15:02:01 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/telcowg/2014/telcowg.2014-11-19-14.02.html | 15:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/telcowg/2014/telcowg.2014-11-19-14.02.txt | 15:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/telcowg/2014/telcowg.2014-11-19-14.02.log.html | 15:02 |
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| rkukura | hi ML2ers! | 16:00 |
| yamamoto | hi | 16:00 |
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| yamahata | hello | 16:01 |
| yalie__ | hi | 16:01 |
| romilg | Hi All | 16:01 |
| sadasu | hello! | 16:01 |
| irenab | hi | 16:01 |
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| shivharis | hi all | 16:02 |
| rkukura | looks like we’ve got quorum | 16:02 |
| Sukhdev | Hello everybody | 16:03 |
| rkukura | Sukhdev: OK if I chair today? | 16:03 |
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| Sukhdev | sorry for being late | 16:03 |
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| Sukhdev | rkukura: yes, please | 16:03 |
| rkukura | #startmeeting networking_ml2 | 16:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 19 16:03:36 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rkukura. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 16:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_ml2' | 16:03 |
| rkukura | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ML2#Agenda | 16:03 |
| rkukura | #topic Announcements | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 16:04 | |
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| rkukura | There will be a mid-cycle meetup in December in Utah | 16:04 |
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| rkukura | Info is at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/NeutronKiloSprint | 16:05 |
| Sukhdev | rkukura: Looks like there will be ML2 related work in this sprint | 16:05 |
| rkukura | This is likely to be relevant to ML2 both in terms of vendor driver relocation and the core changes. | 16:06 |
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| rkukura | I encourage ML2ers to participate if possible | 16:06 |
| rkukura | Any other announcements? | 16:06 |
| rkukura | If not… | 16:07 |
| sadasu | any possibility of remote attendance to the mid-cycle summit? | 16:07 |
| rkukura | #topic Bugs | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 16:07 | |
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| rkukura | shivharis: | 16:07 |
| manishg | hi | 16:07 |
| shivharis | HI | 16:07 |
| sadasu | rkukura: any info on my previous question? | 16:07 |
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| shivharis | I have not combed the latest list this time, my apologies. I will open it up for folk who are actively working on bugs and if they need help | 16:08 |
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| Sukhdev | shivharis is probably jet-lagged like me :-):-) | 16:08 |
| shivharis | there is a bug entered in the agenda, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113999/ | 16:09 |
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| shivharis | yup, keeping odd hours due to jet lag | 16:09 |
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| rkukura | Doesn’t look like banix is online | 16:10 |
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| shivharis | appears very calm this time, lets get to these next time, i will be more prepared. | 16:10 |
| shivharis | back to you bob. | 16:10 |
| rkukura | Ok, any other bugs need discussion? | 16:10 |
| rkukura | If not… | 16:10 |
| rkukura | #topic Spec Reviews | 16:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec Reviews (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 16:10 | |
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| rkukura | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99873/ | 16:11 |
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| yamahata | hi. | 16:11 |
| rkukura | This is the portsecurity extension spec | 16:12 |
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| manishg | rkukura: I had something to discuss but I can wait | 16:12 |
| rkukura | yamahata: what’s the status on this? | 16:12 |
| manishg | till open discussion. | 16:12 |
| sadasu | I would like reviewers for my spec on ML2 driver for UCS Manager | 16:12 |
| rkukura | manishg: OK | 16:12 |
| yamahata | Yes, there are three similar proposals. Now we are talking for combined spec. | 16:12 |
| sadasu | #link https://review.openstack.org/134056 | 16:12 |
| yamahata | If the basic direction is okay for you and other core devs, I'd like to get -2 removed. | 16:13 |
| rkukura | yamahata: Do you have links to the other proposals? | 16:13 |
| Sukhdev | sadasu: I saw some comments on this - I will review it later today | 16:14 |
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| yamahata | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106222/ | 16:14 |
| rkukura | I see mestery’s -2 comment references one | 16:14 |
| sadasu | Sukhdev: thanks! | 16:14 |
| yamahata | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97715/ | 16:14 |
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| yamahata | they are in reference section of the spec. | 16:15 |
| rkukura | I’d suggest asking mestery to remove his -2 if there is agreement on which spec(s) go forward | 16:15 |
| yamamoto | yamahata: will yours be the combined spec? | 16:15 |
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| yamahata | yamamoto: Yes. At least I try to. | 16:16 |
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| rkukura | I’ll try to catch up on this review by next week | 16:16 |
| sadasu | afaik, the other 2 spec owners are willing to collaborate with yamahata | 16:16 |
| yamahata | shwetaap: do you have oany pinion? | 16:17 |
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| yamahata | s/oany/any | 16:17 |
| sadasu | based on discussions during the summit | 16:17 |
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| rkukura | any other spec reviews to discuss? | 16:18 |
| rkukura | I have not posted the updated HPB spec yet, but will very soon. | 16:18 |
| sadasu | have a general question on spec reviews | 16:19 |
| Sukhdev | We used to have a big list of specs - that got moved to Kilo - see this table https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Tracking_ML2_Subgroup_Reviews#Under_Review | 16:19 |
| rkukura | sadasu: go ahead | 16:19 |
| rkukura | Sukhdev: Thanks. | 16:19 |
| rkukura | Lets continue to update the wiki as specs are submitted. | 16:20 |
| sadasu | are spec approvals linked to what happens regarding reloaction of ML2 driver code? | 16:20 |
| banix | This should be a straightforwrd spec: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132226/ | 16:20 |
| shwetaap | Sorry but I am having a little bit of a connection problem here. What I had worked on for last cycle was to extend Aaron's port security extension in ML2. But the spec now is to have a port security as an extension driver in Ml2. I am in agreement with that. And yamahata , I would be interested in taking up any work in this regard | 16:20 |
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| rkukura | banix: Looks like we are continuing the spec process for vendor drivers, at least until the repository move is resolved. | 16:22 |
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| banix | rkukura: thanks for letting me know. I missed that point. | 16:22 |
| Sukhdev | banix: welcome back!!! | 16:22 |
| banix | Sukhdev: thanks | 16:22 |
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| rkukura | shwetaap, yamahata: Let us know if we need to put portsecurity on the agenda for next week | 16:23 |
| rkukura | Anything else on specs? | 16:23 |
| manishg | sadasu: don't think spec approvals are linked to decision about ml2 driver code relocation (afaik) | 16:24 |
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| rkukura | manishg, sadasu, banix: My view is we should continue the spec process for vendor drivers for now. This might change if all vendor drivers move to vendor-specific repos. | 16:25 |
| rkukura | We’ll discuss that in a bit. | 16:25 |
| sadasu | manishg: good to know...we can make progress there | 16:25 |
| irenab | I do not have the spec yet, but we want to add QoS support for SRIOV ports, based on previously proposed patches by Sean Collins with some changes. It will require ML2 extension for QoS mapping to port and support for extendable get_device_details call into Extension Drivers. Can we discuss it here or need to push the spec first? | 16:25 |
| sadasu | banix: are you just looking for a 2nd core reviewer for your spec? | 16:26 |
| manishg | irenab: is this really qos or just throttling? | 16:26 |
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| banix | sadasu: yes | 16:26 |
| rkukura | irenab: Cool | 16:26 |
| irenab | manishg: rate limiting | 16:26 |
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| yamahata | irenab: rate limiting by nic hw? | 16:27 |
| irenab | yamahata: yes | 16:27 |
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| manishg | irenab: then maybe better to just call it that. qos brings in other implications and people will claim spec incomplete for qos. | 16:27 |
| rkukura | irenab: Not sure why the get_device_details would call into the extension drivers - these just manage the DB state - the mechanism drivers would need to enforce the extension semantics | 16:27 |
| rkukura | Which brings up the question of whether we want to work on extension semantic enforcement for Kilo? | 16:28 |
| irenab | rkukura: neutron agent will need to configure rate limiting, it should get the required settings | 16:28 |
| rkukura | irenab: Agreed, but I’d think the openvswitch mechanism driver would need to handle that. | 16:28 |
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| irenab | instead of additional RPC call, it can get the details on existing call | 16:28 |
| sadasu | irenab: I am also interested in this spec | 16:29 |
| rkukura | irenab: Do you want to put this on the agenda for next week? | 16:29 |
| irenab | rkukura: I'll try to catch you offline to discuss, if its OK? | 16:29 |
| rkukura | #action Discuss rate limiting next week | 16:30 |
| rkukura | irenab: yes | 16:30 |
| irenab | rkukura: thanks | 16:30 |
| rkukura | #action Discuss portsecurity next week | 16:30 |
| sadasu | irenab: can you pls start a thread on the ML so others can participate/ get upto speed? | 16:30 |
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| rkukura | sadasu: Good idea | 16:30 |
| manishg | irenab: pls include me also if you start a thread. | 16:30 |
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| irenab | sadasu: sure, meanwhile trying to collaborate with Sean, but will send out to ML | 16:31 |
| rkukura | irenab: thanks | 16:31 |
| shivharis | ML would be best, since i am interested as well | 16:31 |
| sadasu | irenab: thanks much | 16:31 |
| rkukura | Lets discuss on list, and summarize status at next weeks meeting | 16:31 |
| rkukura | moving on… | 16:31 |
| rkukura | #topic ML2 Subream Charter | 16:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ML2 Subream Charter (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 16:32 | |
| rkukura | At the weekly Neutron IRC meeting, there was discussion of subteams | 16:32 |
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| rkukura | First, should the ML2 subteam continue? | 16:33 |
| Sukhdev | rkukura: I missed it because of timing - too early for me :-) | 16:33 |
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| amotoki | Layer-2 subteam rather than ML2 subteam? | 16:34 |
| rkukura | There seems to be some movement to reduce the number of subteams, but I’m not hearing any call to eliminate the ML2 subteam | 16:34 |
| rkukura | amotoki: Good question | 16:35 |
| amotoki | though the main topic is related to ml2, some topics are not limited to ml2. | 16:35 |
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| sadasu | I think ML2 is still evolving, so subteam is dfntly helpful | 16:35 |
| rkukura | amotoki: I’d think other L2 plugins are outside our scope | 16:35 |
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| amotoki | rkukura: yes to some extent.. but L2GW or other topics are related to L2. but i am not sure this is the best place to discuss. | 16:36 |
| rkukura | Our main focus has been the ML2 plugin itself, its driver APIs, extensions, features, ... | 16:36 |
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| amotoki | rkukura: sounds reasonable | 16:37 |
| manishg | ML2 is the only official core plugin. rest are vendor plugins. | 16:37 |
| manishg | so agree with rkukura about the scope. | 16:37 |
| Sukhdev | amotoki: L2GW is being proposed as a service plugin, not part of ML2 | 16:37 |
| rkukura | We’ve tried to make some progress on a modular L2 agent, but maybe that should be a separate effort | 16:37 |
| shivharis | rkukura: Additionally, ML2 has a significant traction with respect to several vendor drivers and is very valuable resource to them | 16:37 |
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| rkukura | Should our focus be limited to the integration point, or also include the reference control plane (L2 agents, etc.)? | 16:38 |
| manishg | l2 agents are independent of ML2 - agree. | 16:38 |
| amotoki | Sukhdev: i know. I am not sure what is the best approach for l2gw. I just raised potential topics to clarify the purpose of the subteam. | 16:38 |
| rkukura | Clearly the ML2 subteam should pay attention to the l2gw effort, but I’m not sure it needs to “own” it. | 16:39 |
| rkukura | Anyway, if we want to continue, we need a charter | 16:39 |
| irenab | manishg: not totally agree, since agents depend on data provided by plugin | 16:39 |
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| manishg | but the interface should be discussed here I believe. I think all touch points will end up needing discussion here. | 16:39 |
| Sukhdev | amotoki: The question is - should we limit the scope of this subcommittee to ML2 only or increase it to include all L2 related topics? | 16:39 |
| manishg | irenab: yes, that is the interface part. doesn't mean the architecture depends on ML2 | 16:40 |
| amotoki | Sukhdev: exactly. | 16:40 |
| irenab | manishg: agree | 16:40 |
| Sukhdev | amotoki: I threw this question out so that we can discuss this | 16:40 |
| amotoki | imho it is better to focus on a single topic, so focusing ML2 looks good to me. | 16:41 |
| rkukura | I’ve started a draft charter at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ML2_Subteam_Charter | 16:41 |
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| rkukura | I’d suggest we try to incorporate wording on how the ML2 subteam would be involved in efforts like l2gw | 16:42 |
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| Sukhdev | rkukura: thanks for putting this together - this will help us focus our charter | 16:42 |
| rkukura | I asked mestery about what he is looking for in these subteam charters | 16:42 |
| rkukura | He’s going to put together a wiki on this, which I think will be where the charters live. | 16:43 |
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| rkukura | He did say he wanted to see goals for Kilo, so I added some of the things we’ve been discussing | 16:43 |
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| rkukura | we don’t have a lot of time left today to complete wordsmithing this | 16:44 |
| manishg | rkukura: I think that makes sense and it also focuses our efforts. Would be good define the charter (and thanks for the draft) | 16:44 |
| amotoki | it is very clear definition ot me and it seems worth forming a subteam. | 16:44 |
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| rkukura | I encourage others to add their ideas and comments, and improve wording as needed | 16:45 |
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| rkukura | Does this seem like a reaonable start and a plan? | 16:46 |
| banix | rkukura: yes | 16:46 |
| sadasu | rkukura: this is a great "draft" | 16:47 |
| irenab | rkukura: +1 | 16:47 |
| manishg | rkukura: yes | 16:47 |
| amotoki | rkukura: of course yes | 16:47 |
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| Sukhdev | rkukura: Absolutely | 16:47 |
| shivharis | rkukura: +1 | 16:47 |
| rkukura | OK, lets try to polish this up over the next couple days so we have something for Monday’s neutron meeting | 16:47 |
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| rkukura | next topic… | 16:48 |
| manishg | rkukura: I think some of the efforts maybe dictated by which direction we head towards (split of api/rpc etc.) | 16:48 |
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| rkukura | manishg: Agreed, but that’s hopefully detail that doesn’t need to be in the charter. | 16:48 |
| manishg | agree. | 16:49 |
| amotoki | manishg: i think the first item covers it. | 16:49 |
| Sukhdev | manishg: I am hoping nothing south of ML2 plugin changes - | 16:49 |
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| rkukura | We should try to make the charter as general and hight level as possible, covering both long term and some kilo specifics. | 16:49 |
| rkukura | #topic ML2 driver repository discussion | 16:50 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "ML2 driver repository discussion (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 16:50 | |
| manishg | amotoki: yes, but just saying remaining may not be completed and more stuff might come in due to the refactor. but agree with what rkukura said - make it higher level so charter doesn't change much hopefully. | 16:50 |
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| amotoki | rkukura: go ahead pls | 16:50 |
| rkukura | I’m sure everyone is aware of the (somewhat vague) plan to move vendor drivers out of the neutron git repositroy | 16:50 |
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| rkukura | I think the initial thinking has been that each vendor would get their own (stackforge?) repo | 16:51 |
| rkukura | That seems to make sense for monolithic plugins, and could also apply to ML2 drivers | 16:51 |
| Sukhdev | rkukura: that makes more sense for monolithic plugins - I wonder if it makes sense for ML2 drivers | 16:52 |
| Sukhdev | I mean individual ML2 drivers | 16:52 |
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| rkukura | But we may want to look at alternatives for keeping the ML2 drivers together, at least for those vendors that choose to do so. | 16:52 |
| rkukura | One idea would be to have a common ml2-drivers repository, with some sort of core review team focused on ML2 | 16:53 |
| shivharis | I am assuming that unit tests will also be splt out, which begs the questions who runs the unit tests | 16:53 |
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| Sukhdev | Until a straw-man proposal is put together, it is hard to argue one way or the other | 16:53 |
| rkukura | I think the main motivation for all this is that vendor drivers don’t get enough core review attention in neutron | 16:54 |
| manishg | armando already proposed a spec for the split. | 16:54 |
| manishg | #link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134680/ | 16:54 |
| rkukura | manishg: thanks - hadn’t seen that | 16:54 |
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| manishg | the spec calls for split of ml2 drivers as well, from what I remember (read it yesterday). | 16:55 |
| manishg | it clearly defines the parts of the vendor drivers that will stay in repo to make things easier. | 16:56 |
| Sukhdev | manishg: I have not read it yet - lets all review it and post comments on the spec itself | 16:56 |
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| rkukura | Sukhdev: +1 | 16:56 |
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| manishg | rkukura: yes, that is one concern (that core reviewers won't be able to spend time on it). But I think that is the exact reason it's proposed (because they don't have the time :( ) | 16:57 |
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| manishg | I heard the main concern as -- APIs ... if they aren't clearly defined or change frequently it maybe an issue. | 16:57 |
| rkukura | So assuming this spec envisions moving each vendor driver into a vendor-specific repo, is there interest in a common ML2 driver repo with its own core review team? | 16:57 |
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| manishg | I think it would be a good idea and benefit all. | 16:58 |
| sadasu | rkukura: +1 | 16:58 |
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| manishg | at least if it is in one place other folks are more likely to review it. and we can bring up reviews here and interested folks can review. | 16:58 |
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| rkukura | My personal view is that ML2 is a long way from having a stable driver API, and trying to lock it down now to guarantee compatiblity would be premature. | 16:58 |
| irenab | rkukura: if it makes development/deployment/testing easier, then definitly yes | 16:59 |
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| manishg | and vendors can learn from each other. | 16:59 |
| rkukura | We are pretty much out of time | 16:59 |
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| amotoki | it can but if the number of vendor drivrs increases doesn't the same problem happen? | 16:59 |
| amotoki | it is open question. | 16:59 |
| manishg | rkukura: versioning is proposed in the spec. | 16:59 |
| rkukura | Lets review this spec and think about how we might go forward. | 16:59 |
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| irenab | I guess its important to have stable API as ml2 mission | 17:00 |
| manishg | rkukura: I have a review for filter implementation of segments. | 17:00 |
| manishg | sorry... I guess no open discussion today. will bring up next time. | 17:00 |
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| rkukura | manishg: Please make sure its in the spec tracking wili | 17:00 |
| rkukura | wiki | 17:00 |
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| rkukura | thanks everyone! | 17:00 |
| manishg | will add. thx | 17:00 |
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| manishg | thanks! | 17:00 |
| rkukura | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| Sukhdev | Thanks | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 19 17:00:57 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| shivharis | bye | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2014/networking_ml2.2014-11-19-16.03.html | 17:01 |
| yamamoto | bye | 17:01 |
| irenab | thanks | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2014/networking_ml2.2014-11-19-16.03.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2014/networking_ml2.2014-11-19-16.03.log.html | 17:01 |
| amotoki | bye. good night | 17:01 |
| yamahata | bye | 17:01 |
| Kiall | #startmeeting Designate | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 19 17:01:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Kiall. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'designate' | 17:01 |
| ekarlso- | ello folks :) | 17:01 |
| Kiall | Hey Folks, who's about today? | 17:01 |
| betsy | o/ | 17:01 |
| yalie__ | bye | 17:01 |
| mugsie | o/ | 17:01 |
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| vinod | o/ | 17:01 |
| Kiall | rjrjr: about? | 17:01 |
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| mugsie | I saw him join a second ago | 17:01 |
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| Kiall | kk.. | 17:01 |
| Kiall | No actions from last week, so skipping that.. | 17:01 |
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| Kiall | #topic Pools - Where are we? (kiall) | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pools - Where are we? (kiall) (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:02 | |
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| Kiall | rjrjr pushed another patchset yesterday (or maybe the day before?).. I've been travelling, so haven't reviewed.. has anyone else had a chance? | 17:02 |
| betsy | nope | 17:02 |
| mugsie | no major movement afaik - need to do another review day :| | 17:02 |
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| rjrjr | should be finishing up the happy path by friday. finally. | 17:03 |
| vinod | It is marked as WIP. But I was looking it at now | 17:03 |
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| mugsie | rjrjr: cool | 17:03 |
| mugsie | :) | 17:03 |
| Kiall | rjrjr: excellent, I'm looking forward to getting the old stuff out :D | 17:03 |
| betsy | I can give an update on pool storage | 17:03 |
| Kiall | Any blockers etc etc? | 17:03 |
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| timsim | o/ | 17:03 |
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| Kiall | betsy: sure.. | 17:03 |
| vinod | I did notice that there are some mismatches between the pool manager and minidns interfaces/calls | 17:04 |
| vinod | rjrjr: Do you want me to fix them up | 17:04 |
| rjrjr | or point them out. | 17:04 |
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| vinod | sure rjrjr: I will work with you after this meeting | 17:05 |
| Kiall | betsy: still there? ;) | 17:06 |
| timsim | It looks like she's lost connection | 17:06 |
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| timsim | She's putting in updates, but it's not showing up | 17:06 |
| Kiall | ah, fair enough :) | 17:06 |
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| Kiall | So.. Somewhat related to pools, we've got a "fun" bug.. https://bugs.launchpad.net/designate/+bug/1392762 | 17:07 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1392762 in designate "Concurrent requests can cause designate-central to lock up" [High,In progress] | 17:07 |
| vinod | betsy is struggling with irc troubles | 17:07 |
| vinod | network issues for her | 17:07 |
| vinod | rjrjr: Is pool manager working in the devstack tests now? | 17:07 |
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| Kiall | it's relation to pools is that.. I believe we're best wait for all the old backend code to be removed before we fully fix it up | 17:07 |
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| Kiall | So, if you see me -1's pools reviews due to eventlet context switching.. You'll know it's that bug ;) | 17:08 |
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| Kiall | vinod: Okay, we'll come back to betsy later.. Unless she's back on again? | 17:08 |
| rjrjr | vinod: yes | 17:08 |
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| timsim | She's fighting it :P | 17:08 |
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| timsim | Op, she's on the other channel | 17:09 |
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| betsy | Now! | 17:09 |
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| betsy | I’m working on the server to pool_attributes table migration. And changing the v1 api to CRUD pool_attributes instead of servers while still looking like it’s doing servers. And then changing ALL the code to not use servers | 17:09 |
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| betsy | :) | 17:09 |
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| Kiall | cool - sounds like progress! :) | 17:09 |
| betsy | That should be the last of the pool storage | 17:09 |
| Kiall | Excellent - Is rjrjr held up by that work? I'm guessing not? | 17:10 |
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| betsy | Not as far as I know - rjrjr? | 17:10 |
| rjrjr | not held up. | 17:11 |
| Kiall | Cool... | 17:11 |
| Kiall | Okay, before we move on, any blockers re pools? | 17:11 |
| rjrjr | no | 17:11 |
| rjrjr | not exactly. | 17:11 |
| Kiall | Excellent :) | 17:11 |
| Kiall | #topic Mid-Cycle Dates/Locations/Topics | 17:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mid-Cycle Dates/Locations/Topics (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:11 | |
| Kiall | Have we figured out any more info on this? | 17:11 |
| rjrjr | yes. | 17:11 |
| mugsie | :D | 17:12 |
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| rjrjr | would the week of january 19 - 23 work for everyone? | 17:12 |
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| mugsie | I think so - Kiall how does that fit for you? | 17:13 |
| timsim | Probably so. | 17:13 |
| Kiall | Kinda.. I've got to be in CA 22nd/23rd (or 23rd/24th) | 17:13 |
| rjrjr | guys, i'm open on when. trying to accommodate your schedule. | 17:13 |
| rjrjr | got approval to do this. | 17:13 |
| mugsie | sweet | 17:14 |
| mugsie | how logn do we want to put aside for it? | 17:14 |
| mugsie | long* | 17:14 |
| mugsie | 2,3,4 days? | 17:14 |
| timsim | 3 or 4 I'd think. | 17:14 |
| mugsie | which still could be ok for Kiall and CA | 17:14 |
| Kiall | Yea, that's works nicely for me | 17:14 |
| mugsie | Mon -> Thurs in Pheonix? | 17:14 |
| timsim | Joe didn't seem too worried that (at least some) of us would be able to come. | 17:14 |
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| rjrjr | so january 19 - 22 then? | 17:15 |
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| mugsie | jmcbride joined - those dates suit you Joe? | 17:15 |
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| mugsie | Kiall: can you confirm the 1st day you haveto be in CA? | 17:16 |
| Kiall | Yep - That should work for me, We'll want to figure out if everyone can manage 4 days.. But that can come a little later | 17:16 |
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| Kiall | mugsie: I'd love to, but nobody knows if it's the 22nd or 23rd yet | 17:16 |
| mugsie | ah | 17:16 |
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| mugsie | i thought it was set :) | 17:16 |
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| jmcbride | I think that will work for me. | 17:16 |
| Kiall | original schedule was for Fri 23rd and Sat 24th .. Which everyone agreed to, then it was realized the 24th was a Sat.. It's kinda still up in the air | 17:16 |
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| Kiall | It's the 22nd or 23rd either way | 17:17 |
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| mugsie | so, we can agree to start on the money anyway | 17:17 |
| mugsie | monday* | 17:17 |
| * mugsie needs sleep | 17:17 | |
| mugsie | and then 3 - 4 days for the duration | 17:17 |
| timsim | Want to set this tenatively, and come back to it next week? Jan 19-22? | 17:17 |
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| timsim | Or maybe 21st | 17:18 |
| mugsie | that sound like a good base plan? and circle around mext week, when people have checked with amnagement | 17:18 |
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| Kiall | mugsie: ++ | 17:18 |
| timsim | Cool, sounds like fun. | 17:18 |
| mugsie | #action: all - check and confirm dates above | 17:18 |
| Kiall | Okay.. Moving on! rjrjr thanks for Hosting.. :) | 17:19 |
| rjrjr | if it doesn't work, propose another slot. i'm flexible as long as we nail down the dates in the next week or so. | 17:19 |
| mugsie | ++ | 17:19 |
| vinod | rjrjr: Is there an ebay office in Phoenix? | 17:19 |
| rjrjr | yes. | 17:19 |
| Kiall | #action Pools Question - Do we want to treat nameservers differently than poolattributes, or is it just a type of poolattribute? (betsy) | 17:20 |
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| betsy | I’ve just got a question as to why nameservers are treated separately than pool_attributes | 17:20 |
| * mugsie *cough* #topic *cough* | 17:20 | |
| Kiall | lol | 17:20 |
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| Kiall | #ropic Pools Question - Do we want to treat nameservers differently than poolattributes, or is it just a type of poolattribute? (betsy) | 17:20 |
| betsy | Aren’t they just a type of pool_attribute? | 17:20 |
| Kiall | #topic Pools Question - Do we want to treat nameservers differently than poolattributes, or is it just a type of poolattribute? (betsy) | 17:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pools Question - Do we want to treat nameservers differently than poolattributes, or is it just a type of poolattribute? (betsy) (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:20 | |
| Kiall | -_- | 17:20 |
| betsy | :) | 17:21 |
| betsy | We’ve currently got a namerserver object and a pool_attribute object | 17:21 |
| mugsie | i think they are stored as a pool attrib, but displayed int he API separatly | 17:21 |
| mugsie | in the API* | 17:21 |
| mugsie | so, 2 objects is right | 17:21 |
| mugsie | nameserver could inherit from pool_attrib | 17:22 |
| betsy | Yeah, but we can still get that info from a pool_attriibute object vs a nameserver obj, can’t we? | 17:22 |
| mugsie | yeah, we could | 17:22 |
| mugsie | I am easy either way personlly | 17:22 |
| betsy | what does everyone else think? | 17:22 |
| Kiall | I'd argue we hide the pool_attributes table out of the way in the storage layer, since the _attributes tables were, from my memory, really about avoiding 1000s of small tables... | 17:23 |
| Kiall | (i.e. Nameserver is the object, Pool Attributes aren't) | 17:23 |
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| betsy | ok | 17:23 |
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| betsy | But we still have other pool attribute objects, right? | 17:24 |
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| Kiall | Yea, when the scheduler comes along, we'll have more | 17:24 |
| betsy | Okay. I’ll leave it for now and see how the code goes | 17:24 |
| Kiall | I think nameservers are the only existing use of it | 17:24 |
| rjrjr | i think it is a pool attribute. | 17:24 |
| vinod | we have scope too as a pool attribute currently | 17:24 |
| timsim | It seems like a pool attribute to me, but not one that'd factor into the scheduler. | 17:25 |
| mugsie | timsim: ++ | 17:25 |
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| Kiall | timsim: agreed, scheduler hints will likely be an attribute with type=scheduler_hint value=<Something Here> | 17:25 |
| timsim | Yep, that makes sense. | 17:26 |
| betsy | Ok. So leave the nameserver object as is? | 17:26 |
| Kiall | Personally, I think so - But bearing in mind I've not read the patch yet, so "as is" could be different than I'm thinking :D | 17:27 |
| betsy | ok. I’ll leave it for now and then y’all can review the patch | 17:27 |
| mugsie | cool :) | 17:27 |
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| Kiall | #topic Open Discussion | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:27 | |
| Kiall | Any other topics? | 17:27 |
| jmcbride | yes | 17:27 |
| Kiall | mugsie: do you have that poll link handy? | 17:27 |
| jmcbride | regarding server pools | 17:28 |
| jmcbride | rjrjr: You mentioned you were finishing the happy path on Friday. Are you around next week (Thanksgiving week) for us to discuss any issues? | 17:28 |
| mugsie | i do | 17:28 |
| rjrjr | yes. i'm always on, holiday or not. 8^) | 17:28 |
| mugsie | #link https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/FJRBSVF | 17:28 |
| Kiall | rjrjr: lol | 17:28 |
| timsim | clear | 17:29 |
| jmcbride | OK. Getting the server pools bit finalized is an important milestone for us this year. | 17:29 |
| timsim | Wrong window :P | 17:29 |
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| jmcbride | rjrjr will you be at the IRC next Wednesday? | 17:29 |
| rjrjr | yes. | 17:29 |
| Kiall | He's here every week :) | 17:29 |
| timsim | Next wednesdday is the day before a national holiday for us (Thanksgiving) so some of us may not be here. | 17:30 |
| jmcbride | Cool. OK, just wanted to make sure we could reach out to you. So I'm assuming after the happy path is posted, we all start pulling it down and testing away, identifying any issues, right? | 17:30 |
| mugsie | +1 | 17:30 |
| Kiall | Lazy b******* not coming into work, should we skip next weeks meeting? ;) | 17:31 |
| timsim | Nah, I'm sure someone will be around. | 17:31 |
| mugsie | I saw go ahead | 17:31 |
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| betsy | I’ll be here | 17:31 |
| mugsie | say* | 17:31 |
| vinod | We could have a quick check on server pools | 17:32 |
| vinod | I'll be here | 17:32 |
| Kiall | Okay.. Quorum will be here, that'll work. | 17:32 |
| jmcbride | I'd like to keep it on the calendar. | 17:32 |
| ekarlso- | btw, for you that would like to test, secondary zone stuff is up and v2 client :) | 17:32 |
| mugsie | :) | 17:32 |
| jmcbride | cool, ok, I'm good. Thanks for the hard work, rjrjr. | 17:32 |
| ekarlso- | cloudistic.net/blog/drafts/designate-secondary-zones.html < see that for how to setup :) | 17:32 |
| betsy | ekarlso: +1 | 17:32 |
| rjrjr | np. you can test now, but only zone add and delete is working. | 17:32 |
| Kiall | "You don't have permission to access /blog/drafts/designate-secondary-zones.html on this server." ;) | 17:32 |
| ekarlso- | rly | 17:33 |
| timsim | same for me ^ | 17:33 |
| ekarlso- | whaaat :p | 17:33 |
| * Kiall loves how tech just randomly breaks itself ;) | 17:33 | |
| ekarlso- | :p | 17:33 |
| mugsie | has everyone filled the survey in for different meeting times? | 17:33 |
| vinod | i did | 17:33 |
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| mugsie | to see if moving is a good idea... | 17:34 |
| Kiall | I've not, every time I look at my calendar I get upself. | 17:34 |
| Kiall | upset* | 17:34 |
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| betsy | try this: https://cloudistic.net/blog/drafts/designate-secondary-zones.html | 17:34 |
| mugsie | #link https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/FJRBSVF | 17:34 |
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| ekarlso- | https://www.cloudistic.net/blog/drafts/designate-secondary-zones.html < that sorry ;) | 17:34 |
| ekarlso- | ya ^ | 17:34 |
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| nibalizer | u | 17:35 |
| nibalizer | erp ww | 17:35 |
| vinod | ekarlso-: you now have the bar raised on documentation :-) | 17:35 |
| rjrjr | just finished the survey. | 17:35 |
| ekarlso- | vinod: ? ;P | 17:35 |
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| Kiall | vinod: lol, just need to port it to docs.openstack.org ;) | 17:36 |
| vinod | i mean you have done a good job | 17:36 |
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| timsim | nibalizer: wat | 17:36 |
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| Kiall | Yep, spec+post+code is looking good :) | 17:36 |
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| Kiall | Okay, Any other topics or shall we call it a day? | 17:36 |
| mugsie | I am good | 17:36 |
| vinod | whoever gets to try the same thing on server pools - it would be good to have a similar page - so that it would be helpful or others | 17:36 |
| timsim | I'm good. | 17:36 |
| vinod | s/or/to | 17:36 |
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| Kiall | vinod: ++, any | 17:36 |
| rjrjr | good. | 17:36 |
| betsy | vinod: +1 | 17:36 |
| rjrjr | everyone's typing has been gibberish today. | 17:37 |
| ekarlso- | :P | 17:37 |
| ekarlso- | if anyone would like, gimme feedback on the post ^ by 21:00 UTC today and i'll post it up to twitter :P | 17:37 |
| Kiall | ekarlso-: looked good to me when I read yesterday :) | 17:38 |
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| Kiall | Okay, let's call it then.. I'm starving and dinner needs to be cooked :) | 17:38 |
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| timsim | Cool. See ya! | 17:38 |
| Kiall | Thanks all, esp rjrjr for the mid cycle venue and all the pools work :) | 17:38 |
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| Kiall | #endmeeting | 17:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:39 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 19 17:39:02 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/designate/2014/designate.2014-11-19-17.01.html | 17:39 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/designate/2014/designate.2014-11-19-17.01.txt | 17:39 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/designate/2014/designate.2014-11-19-17.01.log.html | 17:39 |
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| mugsie | o/ | 17:39 |
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| SlickNik | #startmeeting trove | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 19 18:00:31 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SlickNik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: trove)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'trove' | 18:00 |
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| SlickNik | Giving folks a few minutes to trickle in | 18:00 |
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| sgotliv | o/ | 18:00 |
| peterstac | o/ | 18:01 |
| amrith | ./ | 18:01 |
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| SlickNik | Agenda at: | 18:01 |
| SlickNik | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TroveMeeting#Meeting_Nov_19th | 18:02 |
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| grapex | o/ | 18:02 |
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| SlickNik | #topic oslo-incubator changes | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "oslo-incubator changes (Meeting topic: trove)" | 18:03 | |
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| amrith | hello all | 18:04 |
| SlickNik | amrith: floor is yours | 18:04 |
| dougshelley66 | o/ | 18:04 |
| amrith | I'd like some reviews of these changes | 18:04 |
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| schang | o/ | 18:04 |
| amrith | thanks to sergey, peterstac, mariam, denis, duk, doug so far | 18:04 |
| sgotliv | I will review it later today | 18:04 |
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| amrith | but would like some others | 18:04 |
| amrith | the changes are now relatively small | 18:04 |
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| amrith | the hard work is in the oslo merge (to come) | 18:04 |
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| amrith | so depending on peoples thoughts, I'd like to get it staged to merge at the time when we think it should | 18:05 |
| amrith | SlickNik, i'm done | 18:05 |
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| SlickNik | Thanks amrith — sounds good. Will take a look as well. | 18:06 |
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| SlickNik | #topic Better documentation for Image building | 18:06 |
| sgotliv | SlickNik, please, take a look on messaging patch as well | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Better documentation for Image building (Meeting topic: trove)" | 18:06 | |
| amrith | SlickNik, I thought I picked up the action item in Paris. | 18:07 |
| SlickNik | sgotliv: Yes, it's on my list as well. | 18:07 |
| amrith | are you looking to change it | 18:07 |
| sgotliv | thanks! | 18:07 |
| SlickNik | amrith: no, just looking for a follow up | 18:07 |
| SlickNik | And what the action item actually entails. | 18:07 |
| amrith | I haven't worked on it since Paris. I will brush it up and have it in the monday meeting in two weeks for review. does that work? | 18:08 |
| amrith | the action item currently entails telling basically how to run dib | 18:08 |
| SlickNik | i.e is this going in the dev docs or in the installation manual? | 18:08 |
| amrith | and documenting the elements we already have | 18:08 |
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| amrith | it should also provide a simple cookbook on how to make a new one if someone wanted to. | 18:08 |
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| amrith | I would expect that it goes in dev docs, not installation manual | 18:09 |
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| SlickNik | Do we need another section that's part of the official install guide? | 18:09 |
| amrith | the question is this, do we expect end users to create their own images? | 18:10 |
| amrith | I was assuming not | 18:10 |
| sgotliv | why not? | 18:10 |
| georgelorch | o/ | 18:10 |
| SlickNik | the current install guide says this: | 18:10 |
| SlickNik | "Create an image for the type of database you want to use, for example, MySQL, MongoDB, Cassandra. | 18:11 |
| SlickNik | This image must have the trove guest agent installed, and it must have the trove-guestagent.conf file configured to connect to your OpenStack environment. To correctly configure the trove-guestagent.conf file, follow these steps on the guest instance you are using to build your image: …" | 18:11 |
| SlickNik | #link http://docs.openstack.org/juno/install-guide/install/apt/content/trove-install.html | 18:11 |
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| amrith | ok, let me look at that and get back to you with a better estimate next week. | 18:12 |
| amrith | would that work? | 18:12 |
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| amrith | I was expecting this to be more of an operators thing | 18:12 |
| amrith | rather than an end user of trove | 18:12 |
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| amrith | I was expecting that an IT org or a csp would make the images and make them available | 18:12 |
| amrith | and that the end user would pick one. | 18:13 |
| amrith | not that the end users would be making their own | 18:13 |
| SlickNik | amrith: is anyone collaborating with you on this? | 18:13 |
| amrith | I guess that's a matter of defining who the "user is". | 18:13 |
| sgotliv | today end user uploads images to Glance | 18:13 |
| amrith | I was working with abramley on this a while ago. | 18:13 |
| amrith | more recently, I haven't done anything on it. | 18:13 |
| amrith | I was also working with laurel on this | 18:14 |
| amrith | from the doc perspective | 18:14 |
| amrith | a while ago | 18:14 |
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| SlickNik | amrith: It is for operators, but the Install guide is also for operators — not just developers. | 18:15 |
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| SlickNik | But sounds good. Let's chat after the meeting to see what we can do to make this happen soon (both for the dev docs and install guide — the instructions likely won't be the same). | 18:17 |
| amrith | ok | 18:17 |
| SlickNik | Thanks! | 18:17 |
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| SlickNik | #topic Trove Mid Cycle Sprint in Seattle, WA | 18:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Trove Mid Cycle Sprint in Seattle, WA (Meeting topic: trove)" | 18:18 | |
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| amrith | SlickNik, I have a request | 18:18 |
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| amrith | re: mid-cycle | 18:18 |
| SlickNik | amrith: yes? | 18:19 |
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| amrith | Thx, there appear to be no late night flights to the east coast. | 18:19 |
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| amrith | therefore a W-F schedule means we can't leave till saturday | 18:19 |
| amrith | would it be possible to do Tu-Th? | 18:19 |
| amrith | instead. | 18:19 |
| amrith | last flight (direct) to Boston is 2pm (as an example) | 18:19 |
| amrith | <eof> | 18:21 |
| SlickNik | How do other folks feel about a Tu-Th instead of a Wed-Fri meetup? | 18:21 |
| dougshelley66 | +1 | 18:21 |
| SlickNik | Well, let's back up a bit. | 18:21 |
| amrith | or monday to wednesday | 18:21 |
| amrith | I'd be happy with a late Sunday flight to seattle. | 18:21 |
| SlickNik | It looks like the mid-cycle will be in February | 18:22 |
| SlickNik | I've set up a doodle poll to decide which week in Feb | 18:22 |
| esmute | there is always the redeye flights | 18:22 |
| amrith | esmute, I don't see redeye to boston. | 18:22 |
| amrith | last flight is 2:07pm, JB. | 18:22 |
| SlickNik | #link http://doodle.com/veabvxtc84czm9ep | 18:22 |
| dougshelley66 | so is the doodle about picking a week or picking specific days in a week | 18:23 |
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| SlickNik | It's about picking the week — I wasn't able to get doodle an option to show a week in the poll instead of days. | 18:24 |
| SlickNik | We can revisit the specific days once we have the week sorted out | 18:24 |
| dougshelley66 | ah ok thx | 18:24 |
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| SlickNik | I had thought of Wed-Fri initially, but I'm open to Mon-Wed or Tue-Thu if folks prefer that. | 18:24 |
| amrith | Nikhil, don't use a calendar event, use a free-text event for week choices. | 18:25 |
| amrith | you can make doodle a poll for anything, right now I have another doodle event to choose a restaurant (options are free text). | 18:25 |
| esmute | amrith: you would think boston is a big enough of a city to have more directly flights.. | 18:25 |
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| amrith | esmute, we're a small place | 18:25 |
| amrith | but wait till we get the next olympics | 18:25 |
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| amrith | we'll even have an airport. | 18:26 |
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| esmute | The think about not ending in a friday is how productive i'll be during the weekday... i might be brain exhausted or drunk :P | 18:27 |
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| amrith | and as exhibit (a), here we have esmute on a wednesday ;) | 18:28 |
| SlickNik | #link http://doodle.com/ahrvmneuddzi92kn | 18:28 |
| cp16net | esmute: isnt that every day? | 18:28 |
| cp16net | :-P | 18:28 |
| SlickNik | ^^ Use this poll instead — to clear up some confusion | 18:28 |
| SlickNik | Will update the link in the page. | 18:28 |
| esmute | cp16net: lol | 18:29 |
| cp16net | :-D | 18:29 |
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| SlickNik | Okay, would be good if folks could take a minute today to fill out that poll, so I can have a better idea of the week for the Mid-cycle. | 18:30 |
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| SlickNik | Let me also check with a few folks who would help with organizing this on whether Mon-Wed, or Tue-Thur would be a better option. | 18:31 |
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| SlickNik | #action SlickNik to follow up on dates for Mid-cycle | 18:31 |
| SlickNik | Will get back to folks after I check on that. | 18:32 |
| SlickNik | Any other questions relating to this? | 18:32 |
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| SlickNik | Okay, let's move on then | 18:33 |
| SlickNik | #topic Trove Cross Project Liasons | 18:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Trove Cross Project Liasons (Meeting topic: trove)" | 18:33 | |
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| SlickNik | So this (Cross Project Liasons) is something that teams across openstack are trying. | 18:33 |
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| SlickNik | Basically for Cross-Project issues, the idea is that the team would have a go-to point of contact. | 18:34 |
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| SlickNik | You've probably already seen some discussion around this on the Mailing List | 18:34 |
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| SlickNik | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons | 18:34 |
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| SlickNik | The wiki page identifies the current cross-project groups for which teams are designating liasons. | 18:35 |
| amrith | SlickNik, do you want us to just go and edit the page (to signify volunteering)? | 18:35 |
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| peterstac | From the page: The liaison should be a core reviewer for the project, but does not need to be the PTL | 18:36 |
| SlickNik | peterstac: The liason does not _need_ to be a core reviewer. | 18:36 |
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| SlickNik | The only requirement afaik is: | 18:37 |
| SlickNik | 1. she be passionate about the cross-project area | 18:37 |
| SlickNik | 2. she be available for a cross project meeting (IRC) during which the particular topics might be brought up. | 18:37 |
| SlickNik | Depending on the team they might have a few other responsibilities | 18:38 |
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| SlickNik | like triaging security issues for the vulnerability mgmt one, and getting involved in releases for rel mgmt. | 18:38 |
| SlickNik | Also there can be more than one person as the liason. | 18:39 |
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| SlickNik | amrith: Updating the wiki page as you volunteer sounds good | 18:39 |
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| SlickNik | Any questions around this? | 18:41 |
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| * SlickNik goes off to look at the webpage to see if we have volunteers. | 18:41 | |
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| peterstac | better hurry, spots are filling up fast ;) | 18:42 |
| peterstac | only Stable Branch, Vulnerability management, API Working Group left ... | 18:42 |
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| SlickNik | peterstac: There can be more than one | 18:43 |
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| SlickNik | Okay, I'll let folks fill that in at their convenience. | 18:45 |
| SlickNik | Any other questions regarding this? | 18:45 |
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| SlickNik | Feel free to chat with me if you're interested in one of these roles, but are not sure what it might entail. | 18:46 |
| SlickNik | #topic Open Discussion | 18:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: trove)" | 18:46 | |
| amrith | I have one ... | 18:46 |
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| amrith | but I'll wait | 18:46 |
| amrith | and go last | 18:46 |
| cp16net | i think you should fill this silence. | 18:47 |
| SlickNik | I'm not sure I see any other topics, so go for it. | 18:47 |
| amrith | This was about the issue of datastore and flavors | 18:48 |
| amrith | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/109824/ | 18:48 |
| amrith | I saw a mention that riddhi was going to talk about it at next trove meeting. | 18:48 |
| amrith | I assume that is now | 18:48 |
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| amrith | so if it is, I'd like to discuss that. | 18:48 |
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| amrith | anyone? | 18:49 |
| Riddhi | amrith: sgoltiv wanted to chat about it | 18:49 |
| Riddhi | i think its night time for him though | 18:49 |
| amrith | he was here earlier, and I saw the comment in the review | 18:49 |
| amrith | hence I bring it up | 18:49 |
| amrith | there was some urgency about this on monday | 18:49 |
| amrith | and therefore I'd like to make sure it doesn't linger | 18:50 |
| amrith | there appear to be two issues | 18:50 |
| amrith | 1. whether the api is Restful | 18:50 |
| Riddhi | yeah..he pinged me after that comment..we would discuss about it tomorrow and i will update the patch with the details of what we discussed | 18:50 |
| amrith | 2. whether it can be changed given that what was implemented was what was in the spec | 18:50 |
| amrith | so the question is this | 18:50 |
| amrith | if you come to the conclusion that (1) it isn't restful | 18:50 |
| amrith | can it be changed. | 18:51 |
| Riddhi | yes..i wanted more feedback on this | 18:51 |
| amrith | My understanding from Monday was that the BP would be RST'ed and then we would review it | 18:51 |
| amrith | is that correct? | 18:51 |
| amrith | this is mostly a question to grapex and SlickNik | 18:51 |
| amrith | did I understand monday's meeting correctly? | 18:51 |
| SlickNik | amrith: There was an RST'd BP that already merged. | 18:51 |
| Riddhi | yeah..the rst has been approved and is now in trove -specs | 18:51 |
| grapex | amrith: I figured the big stuff had already been discussed | 18:51 |
| SlickNik | amrith: Not sure if you saw it | 18:51 |
| amrith | SlickNik, that went by so quick | 18:52 |
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| grapex | But if people had more questions we can still talk about it | 18:52 |
| amrith | I was assuming that review meant it would be around for a bit | 18:52 |
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| amrith | I guess I was wrong | 18:52 |
| grapex | amrith: Well there's still a review for the code, but the Spec BP was approved | 18:52 |
| amrith | also, the process re: bp's was (I thought) that the BP would be +2'ed when the code +2'ed | 18:52 |
| grapex | which makes sense as it was already in the wiki for a long time | 18:52 |
| amrith | I have a bunch of BP's otu there. | 18:52 |
| amrith | they were discussed | 18:52 |
| amrith | they haven't merged. | 18:52 |
| Riddhi | the stuff sgotliv wanted to discuss was if /{tenant_id}/flavors/datastores/versions/{datastore_version_id} is a valid REST api | 18:52 |
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| SlickNik | The BP is +2'ed when the design is agreed upon, not when the code merges.å | 18:53 |
| amrith | could I get some reviews (like +2's) on my bp's | 18:53 |
| Riddhi | grapex: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/trove/+spec/associate-flavors-datastores | 18:53 |
| amrith | have we agreed to the 'design' | 18:53 |
| amrith | on how to handle obsolete oslo modules? | 18:53 |
| grapex | SlickNik: That was my view as well | 18:53 |
| grapex | amrith: Sorry, I'll try to look over more of your blueprints | 18:53 |
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| SlickNik | amrith: Does that need to be a BP? It seems more of a housekeeping task to me. We're not really adding new functionality | 18:54 |
| SlickNik | I thought we decided to use a bug instead? | 18:54 |
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| amrith | SlickNik, not that I know of. we reviewed the BP's at a monday meeting. I could go and check but I don't know about the decision to use a bug. | 18:54 |
| amrith | I'm happy to do that. just let me know which tree to go bark up. | 18:55 |
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| grapex | So- does anyone know what sgoltiv's question was? | 18:55 |
| amrith | yes, he had objections to the end points. | 18:56 |
| amrith | he (and I agree with this) feels that the URL's should not be as in the spec | 18:56 |
| amrith | let me find his exact words, one second | 18:56 |
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| SlickNik | amrith: IIRC I'm pretty sure other projects are using bugs, so I'd prefer doing the same. | 18:56 |
| Riddhi | his question was : /{tenant_id}/flavors/datastores/versions/{datastore_version_id} | 18:56 |
| Riddhi | the above url is not RESTful | 18:56 |
| Riddhi | his suggestions were: | 18:57 |
| Riddhi | 1. How about sending datastore_version_id as a query parameter | 18:57 |
| Riddhi | OR | 18:57 |
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| Riddhi | 2. /{tenant_id}/datastores/{datastore}/versions/{id}/flavors which is even better. | 18:57 |
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| amrith | SlickNik, ok, I'll kill the BP's. | 18:57 |
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| SlickNik | Looks like the BP mentions the bug in it as well | 18:58 |
| SlickNik | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/trove/+bug/1380789 | 18:58 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1380789 in trove "Do not use obsolete modules from oslo-incubator " [Undecided,In progress] | 18:58 |
| grapex | I'll admit, sgoltiv's option #2 seems better to me | 18:58 |
| amrith | done, BP is history. | 18:59 |
| grapex | But at this point I think we have devs implementing stuff based on what they think is community consensus only to find they were obeying an echo whose author has been forgotten. :p | 18:59 |
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| amrith | yes, but this was (I thought) the reason why we thought we'd review it again on Monday. | 18:59 |
| grapex | Actually, scratch that | 19:00 |
| grapex | I think the query param is better- that was #1 right- I'm saying I'm ok with some change | 19:00 |
| grapex | but this has been discussed since this summer | 19:00 |
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| SlickNik | amrith: IIRC the reason we wanted the RST is to track the BPs in kilo | 19:01 |
| grapex | So there isn't any urgency, I'd just like everyone to settle on these last questions since we've long since decided we're ok with the idea | 19:01 |
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| SlickNik | I.e. so that we're not merging a BP in kilo without a corresponding spec | 19:01 |
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| grapex | I've got another question- is the blueprint meeting to be used to announce new specs that are now pull requests in Gerrit, and to give a deadline to approve or deny specs from the past week? | 19:02 |
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| grapex | As in, are we saying we want to wait a week to approve specs? | 19:02 |
| amrith | SlickNik, grapex ... there was much discussion about this spec on monday and I know that I said "#idea ... take existing BP and make it an RST and let people comment on it" | 19:03 |
| amrith | that was certainly my intent. | 19:03 |
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| amrith | I know that sgotliv and others had already expressed concerns on the change | 19:03 |
| amrith | in areas that reflected on the spec/bp. | 19:03 |
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| amrith | anyway, let's decide what we want to do procedurally with BP's. | 19:04 |
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| amrith | to grapex question, above, what's the process? | 19:04 |
| Riddhi | i agree with grapex: although there is no urgency, we can atleast be on the same page about the implementation..this is the last nitpik with respect to the feature..i still do not see how one REST url is better than the other.. | 19:04 |
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| SlickNik | The design for a BP is accepted when the spec merges | 19:04 |
| SlickNik | which can happen independent of the BP meeting. | 19:04 |
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| SlickNik | So the BP meeting is to have a discussion around new specs and iron out any controversial issues that may arise. | 19:05 |
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| SlickNik | We're not making any "approve" or "deny" requests as part of that meeting. | 19:05 |
| SlickNik | That happens offline as part of merging the spec in gerrit | 19:05 |
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| grapex | SlickNik: Cool | 19:06 |
| amrith | so, a new BP/spec doesn't need to come to the monday meeting. | 19:06 |
| amrith | only if there is a reason to discuss. | 19:06 |
| amrith | yes? | 19:06 |
| SlickNik | Yes | 19:06 |
| Riddhi | SlickNik: got it:) | 19:06 |
| grapex | I also think we should get better about having features go on for months because of minor nitpicks in details such as REST paths | 19:06 |
| amrith | ok, what do we do about this spec? | 19:07 |
| amrith | it is now merged. | 19:07 |
| grapex | I get that it can be ugly, but its like if someone's code could be improved in a pull request- make a comment and then hopefully it can be decided in a week or so | 19:07 |
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| grapex | amrith: I think we just move on revieiwng Riddhi's implementation | 19:07 |
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| grapex | If I'm correct, the only blocker is sgoltiv's opinion on what the service.py stuff needs to look like | 19:08 |
| SlickNik | amrith: There's nothing in the spec which prevents us from altering the implementation to change the API endpoint to be more RESTful, so why is this even an issue? | 19:08 |
| amrith | at this point, yes | 19:08 |
| SlickNik | spec is at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135128/3/specs/kilo/associate-flavors-datastores.rst,cm | 19:08 |
| amrith | SlickNik, the reason I brought it up is that it was discussed in the review that we could discuss in the trove meeting. | 19:09 |
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| amrith | and I didn't want this to linger for too long | 19:09 |
| amrith | since there was a mention of discussing in the "next trove meeting" I brought it up. | 19:09 |
| Riddhi | SlickNik: yeah, i will discuss this with sgotliv and keep you all in the loop about it | 19:10 |
| grapex | amrith: Sorry. I was really moving us for to close to some kind of agreement on Monday's meeting until SlickNik pointed out he needed the spec for Kilo book keeping, and I was like "drat! Defeated!" | 19:10 |
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| grapex | amrith: I still want to push us to come to consenus on this | 19:10 |
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| grapex | I think Riddhi should email sgoltiv, CC the cores and will figure out what this last nitpick is | 19:10 |
| amrith | grapex, I would too, hence I brought this up. | 19:11 |
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| grapex | amrith: I think we agree then. | 19:11 |
| grapex | I vote we give this topic a REST! | 19:11 |
| * grapex rimshot | 19:11 | |
| SlickNik | So the only remaining item is with the last comment on the code review (the actual REST endpoint). The spec isn't an issue here. | 19:11 |
| SlickNik | grapex: +1 | 19:11 |
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| Riddhi | grapex: yes..! although I do not clearly right now get the significance of the URL being RESTful or not.. will implement based on the discussion..so the end:) | 19:11 |
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| SlickNik | Riddhi: Thanks. | 19:12 |
| SlickNik | Please follow up with sgotliv. | 19:12 |
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| grapex | You know what? I don't care if an API is RESTful. There, I said it. | 19:12 |
| Riddhi | SlickNik: yup..will do:) will keep you all in the loop | 19:12 |
| * grapex waits to hear the audience's gasp | 19:13 | |
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| SlickNik | And on that note. :) | 19:13 |
| SlickNik | #endmeeting | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:13 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 19 19:13:14 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:13 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2014/trove.2014-11-19-18.00.html | 19:13 |
| SlickNik | Thanks all | 19:13 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2014/trove.2014-11-19-18.00.txt | 19:13 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2014/trove.2014-11-19-18.00.log.html | 19:13 |
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| SlickNik | Sorry for running over for a bit. | 19:13 |
| grapex | The bot just recorded that | 19:13 |
| grapex | that is on my permanent record! | 19:13 |
| grapex | Guess what else... I think C++ is a good language. And at home, I use Windows. EVEN WHEN I'M CODING | 19:14 |
| SlickNik | hee | 19:14 |
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| SlickNik | mattgriffin: I hear ya. It took me a while to get used to the UTC time thing. | 19:26 |
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| sbalukoff | #startmeeting Octavia | 19:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 19 19:59:56 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sbalukoff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'octavia' | 20:00 |
| sbalukoff | #topic Roll Call | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:00 | |
| johnsom | o/ | 20:00 |
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| ajmiller | o/ | 20:00 |
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| xgerman | o/ | 20:00 |
| bedis | o/ | 20:00 |
| jorgem | oi! | 20:00 |
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| blogan | hello! | 20:00 |
| bedis | \\o | 20:00 |
| bedis | o// | 20:00 |
| TrevorV | o/ | 20:00 |
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| sbalukoff | This is our agenda today: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Octavia/Weekly_Meeting_Agenda | 20:00 |
| sbalukoff | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Octavia/Weekly_Meeting_Agenda | 20:00 |
| sbalukoff | #topic Octavia hack-a-thon in December | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Octavia hack-a-thon in December (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:01 | |
| xgerman | will be epic! | 20:01 |
| sbalukoff | So, not a whole lot to say about this except that it's the week of Dec. 15 | 20:01 |
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| sbalukoff | If you have not yet RSVPed yet, please do here: | 20:01 |
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| sbalukoff | #link Octavia hack-a-thon in December | 20:01 |
| sbalukoff | Dangit. | 20:01 |
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| sbalukoff | #link Octavia hack-a-thon in December | 20:02 |
| sbalukoff | ... | 20:02 |
| blogan | i can't click on that link! | 20:02 |
| rm_work | o/ | 20:02 |
| TrevorV | technical difficulties thre sbalukoff ? | 20:02 |
| jorgem | I can | 20:02 |
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| bedis | http://Octavia%20hack-a-thon%20in%20December/ | 20:02 |
| jorgem | it just doesn't do anything :) | 20:02 |
| bedis | :) | 20:02 |
| xgerman | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/octavia-kilo-meetup | 20:02 |
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| sbalukoff | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/octavia-kilo-meetup | 20:03 |
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| sbalukoff | Yeah, that. | 20:03 |
| sbalukoff | Ok! Anyone have questions about that at this time? | 20:03 |
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| jorgem | yes | 20:03 |
| a2hill | o/ | 20:03 |
| jorgem | Can we setup a video channel of some sort? | 20:03 |
| sbalukoff | Yes. | 20:03 |
| sbalukoff | That is part of the plan, I think. | 20:04 |
| jorgem | I'm going to try and book a VC room for us here at Rackspace so the other devs can participate. | 20:04 |
| ajmiller | +1 even though I'm based in the HP Seattle office, I will be out-of-town for the first two days. Would like to participate as best I can. | 20:04 |
| a2hill | i was hoping it was a google hangout that we can join/dc as needed | 20:04 |
| xgerman | ok, we should be able to have some hangout going | 20:04 |
| jorgem | I've also been whiteboarding with then lately and would love to contribute :) | 20:04 |
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| sbalukoff | Yeah, I can definitely keep a hangout going all week, eh. | 20:05 |
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| a2hill | Perfect! | 20:05 |
| sbalukoff | Any other questions about this? | 20:05 |
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| sbalukoff | (I'll be working on a list of tasks to accomplish as the date draws nearer-- probably makes sense to continue what we're already doing, just in high gear, eh.) | 20:06 |
| jorgem | valé | 20:06 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, moving on... | 20:06 |
| sbalukoff | #topic Progress reports | 20:06 |
| rm_work | I think the most useful thing we could do is spend the first three days whiteboarding >_> | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress reports (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:06 | |
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| xgerman | rm_work +1 | 20:06 |
| sbalukoff | I will destroy you, rm_work | 20:06 |
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| rm_work | sbalukoff: I am not kidding tho <_< | 20:06 |
| xgerman | let's use the high bandwith event for high bandwith tasks | 20:06 |
| sbalukoff | Oh, really? | 20:06 |
| rm_work | destroy me with your amazing whiteboarding :P | 20:07 |
| sbalukoff | Haha | 20:07 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: Careful he's ambidextrous | 20:07 |
| jorgem | :) | 20:07 |
| sbalukoff | #undo | 20:07 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x1fe3490> | 20:07 |
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| sbalukoff | What do you want to see whiteboarded? | 20:07 |
| blogan | yeah we need to whiteboard a lot | 20:07 |
| rm_work | A lot of the flows | 20:07 |
| TrevorV | Seriously I might agree with rm_work here, since we should focus on nitty gritty details we've glossed over | 20:07 |
| jorgem | We've been whiteboarding about agent stuff mostly | 20:07 |
| sbalukoff | Got it. | 20:07 |
| blogan | networking frontend is a big one | 20:07 |
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| blogan | also backend as well | 20:08 |
| rm_work | there are a lot of "oh, right, we need something to deal with that" gotchas that we forget about, unless we trace flows from start to finish | 20:08 |
| sbalukoff | All right. Can y'all start a list of things you'd like to see whiteboarded at the bottom of the RSVP etherpad? | 20:08 |
| xgerman | well, we also might want to split the group into multiple whiteboarders | 20:08 |
| jorgem | The all mighty controller layer needs to be figured out | 20:08 |
| johnsom | Yes | 20:08 |
| jorgem | sure | 20:08 |
| rm_work | heartbeat | 20:08 |
| xgerman | not for 0.5? | 20:08 |
| johnsom | I hope to have a WIP out soon | 20:08 |
| rm_work | xgerman: i think we need it for 0.5 | 20:08 |
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| blogan | sure can | 20:09 |
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| rm_work | it ends up being pretty central to the way the amphorae work | 20:09 |
| jorgem | 0.5 is just a milestone but we should whiteboard for 1.0 and then figure out how to split it up into 0.5 and 1.0 work | 20:09 |
| sbalukoff | #action Everyone here who wants flows whiteboarded should start a list of the same on RSVP etherpad. | 20:09 |
| rm_work | which becomes clear when you whiteboard an amphora's lifecycle | 20:09 |
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| blogan | i think we shouldn't try to implement 1.0 right now but we should definitely keep 1.0 in mind in that we make it easy to implement 1.0 | 20:10 |
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| sbalukoff | Well, yes, and I'd like to see those flows documented in the project much the same way blogan has already started with the amphora lifecycle. :) | 20:10 |
| sbalukoff | But we can do that after whiteboarding them. | 20:10 |
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| rm_work | I think a lot of things fall into the category of "ok, this isn't THAT much more complex, and it would save us a rewrite later" bucket | 20:10 |
| jorgem | yes minimal tech debt please | 20:10 |
| rm_work | err, bucket was a bit redundant there | 20:10 |
| blogan | yeah we need a clear concrete path on how even the small details we glossed over are going to be implemented | 20:10 |
| xgerman | let's hope so | 20:10 |
| sbalukoff | Ok. | 20:11 |
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| rm_work | I am not sure there will be a clear line between 0.5 and 1.0 | 20:11 |
| rm_work | in reality | 20:11 |
| sbalukoff | And here I thought y'all were getting sick of seeing more design documents | 20:11 |
| sbalukoff | *shrug* | 20:11 |
| rm_work | well, the whiteboarding is about the conversations that happen around it :P | 20:11 |
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| sbalukoff | There's also no reason we can't start this early (again, referencing blogan's work on the amphora life cycle thus far) | 20:12 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: Just yours :) eh! jk | 20:12 |
| sbalukoff | Heh! | 20:12 |
| rm_work | anyway, I think we're in agreement, lots of whiteboarding, we can go to your next point I think :) | 20:12 |
| blogan | sbalukoff: yeah the amphora lifecycle needs discussions as well as the newtorking driver interfaec, which probably needs its own design doc | 20:12 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: Agreed. | 20:12 |
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| rm_work | blogan: put it in the etherpad :) | 20:12 |
| sbalukoff | Yes, please do! | 20:12 |
| jorgem | good stuff | 20:13 |
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| sbalukoff | Ok! Anything else about the hack-a-thon right now? | 20:13 |
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| blogan | ill make a new etherpad for each one | 20:13 |
| blogan | j/k | 20:13 |
| xgerman | please link from main etherpad though | 20:13 |
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| sbalukoff | #topic Progress reports | 20:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress reports (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:14 | |
| sbalukoff | blogan! Please update us on the operator-api | 20:14 |
| blogan | its ready for massive amounts of time from everyone to review, though i need to rebase | 20:14 |
| sbalukoff | 4500 lines... | 20:14 |
| rm_work | did you make those TLS updates? | 20:15 |
| sbalukoff | But a lot of that is tests. | 20:15 |
| blogan | rm_work: yes | 20:15 |
| crc32 | Any one talking or am I netsplit? | 20:16 |
| rm_work | crc32: we are talking | 20:16 |
| blogan | crc32: i see you | 20:16 |
| sbalukoff | #action blogan to rebase, and then we need people to review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/121233/ | 20:16 |
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| sbalukoff | blogan: How about the network driver interface? | 20:17 |
| a2hill | I progress in reverse | 20:17 |
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| blogan | i just started research on that this week, put up a very early WIP last night, it needs a LOT of feedback from everyone | 20:17 |
| sbalukoff | a2hill: Er... what? | 20:17 |
| a2hill | heh, ignore me | 20:17 |
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| a2hill | been on 'internal' things | 20:18 |
| sbalukoff | aah. | 20:18 |
| blogan | because i don't really know much about nova-networks and there's a lot of unanswered questions about neutron as well, and this all needs to work for everyone | 20:18 |
| xgerman | ok, we will check it out. Link? | 20:18 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: Sounds good. Do you have a review link? | 20:18 |
| blogan | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130352/ | 20:19 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, cool. | 20:19 |
| blogan | shit thats' trevors reveiw | 20:19 |
| TrevorV | :D | 20:19 |
| crc32 | +1 | 20:19 |
| TrevorV | PS. Review mine too | 20:19 |
| sbalukoff | Haha | 20:19 |
| blogan | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135495/ | 20:19 |
| blogan | i was wondering why it got a +1 | 20:19 |
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| sbalukoff | Ok, on the amphora API: Well, I just got back from vacation, so I've been playing catch-up. However, I should have a final-ish draft of the spec out in the next day or so, then davidlenwell is going to help me code it (read: He'll totally be the one doing 99% of the work on it.) | 20:20 |
| sbalukoff | ;) | 20:20 |
| blogan | lol | 20:20 |
| davidlenwell | :) | 20:21 |
| sbalukoff | Anyway, spec is here: | 20:21 |
| sbalukoff | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126801/ | 20:21 |
| sbalukoff | johnsom: Can you update us on the base-image creation stuff? | 20:21 |
| johnsom | Yes. | 20:22 |
| johnsom | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132904 | 20:22 |
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| johnsom | It's been out there in WIP for a few weeks and now is out for review. | 20:22 |
| sbalukoff | Nice! | 20:22 |
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| sbalukoff | Ok, folks, we need eyes on that! | 20:22 |
| xgerman | +1 | 20:22 |
| johnsom | I would like to discuss some of your comments sbalukoff | 20:22 |
| sbalukoff | #action y'all should review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132904 | 20:22 |
| johnsom | I have built and tested Ubuntu, fedora, and centos VMs. | 20:23 |
| sbalukoff | johnsom: Live, or in the gerrit comment system? | 20:23 |
| johnsom | There is tox that tests some stuff in the default ubuntu image using libguestfs | 20:23 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, cool. | 20:23 |
| johnsom | Live would be cool, but we could do so in the comments system if everyone will chime in. | 20:24 |
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| johnsom | I was happy to see most of your comments were about parts I borrowed from other projects. grin | 20:24 |
| sbalukoff | Let's actually see if we can get through the rest of the agenda and then hit this topic during open discussion. If we don't have time to talk then, we can continue afterward. | 20:24 |
| johnsom | Sounds good | 20:24 |
| sbalukoff | johnsom: Yeah, I suspected there was copy-pasta going on. Because you actually type with good grammar. ;) | 20:25 |
| mwang2 | is that possible that we wrap up a document which lists all of the review standards there | 20:25 |
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| sbalukoff | mwang2: Yes, we can totally do this. We've got a start in the HACKING.rst, but we can formalize other things as well. (like my bias against .md files. ;) ) | 20:25 |
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| johnsom | .md files borrowed from other Openstack projects... grin | 20:26 |
| sbalukoff | Anyway, please folks, have a look at johnsom's review above, eh! | 20:26 |
| mwang2 | that will be great | 20:26 |
| blogan | i should take a look at it today sometime | 20:26 |
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| xgerman | maybe sbalukoff can write some converter :-) | 20:26 |
| sbalukoff | mwang2: Would you like to take an initial stab at writing that review standards doc and/or amending what we've got in HACKING.rst? | 20:27 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: Heh! Well, for the .md files in johnsom's review, the converter would be "cp" | 20:28 |
| sbalukoff | Or 'mv' | 20:28 |
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| blogan | or rm | 20:28 |
| sbalukoff | XD | 20:28 |
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| johnsom | I like rm | 20:28 |
| xgerman | +1 | 20:28 |
| sbalukoff | Yeah, one-line doc files aren't all that useful, in most cases. | 20:28 |
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| * bedis propose a match rm -f | 20:28 | |
| sbalukoff | Anyway, mwang2: Do you mind if I assign that review standards doc to you? I'd be happy to work with you on it. | 20:29 |
| sbalukoff | (Did she disappear?) | 20:30 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, let's keep going... | 20:30 |
| blogan | action it, she can't decline it then! | 20:30 |
| mwang2 | ok | 20:30 |
| sbalukoff | Haha! | 20:30 |
| sbalukoff | #action mwang2 to take initial stab at review standards doc. sbalukoff to work with her on this. | 20:30 |
| blogan | mwang2: if there are standards you are unsure of just list thsoe out as well | 20:30 |
| mwang2 | ok | 20:30 |
| sbalukoff | rm_work: Can you give us an update on the TLS security stuff you've been working on? | 20:31 |
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| rm_work | sbalukoff: most of the initial stuff has been checked in, fixing up the Barbican impl right now | 20:31 |
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| sbalukoff | Great! | 20:31 |
| rm_work | but still need more eyes on the main TLS architecture spec | 20:31 |
| sbalukoff | Cool. Link? | 20:31 |
| rm_work | specifically, eyes that have security experience | 20:31 |
| rm_work | err | 20:32 |
| rm_work | weeeeelll it might have merged | 20:32 |
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| sbalukoff | Yeah, I totally merged it. | 20:32 |
| sbalukoff | I'm pretty sure. | 20:32 |
| rm_work | yep :P | 20:32 |
| rm_work | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130659/ | 20:32 |
| rm_work | well, we can always patch it | 20:32 |
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| sbalukoff | What kind of feedback are you looking for? | 20:32 |
| sbalukoff | Yes we can. | 20:32 |
| rm_work | Just making sure I didn't miss anything | 20:32 |
| rm_work | we're talking about security here | 20:32 |
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| xgerman | bash had holes for years... so | 20:33 |
| rm_work | and this is detailing the workflow for TLS end-to-end for amphorae lifecycle and customer TLS data | 20:33 |
| sbalukoff | Well, you almost certainly missed something. Otherwise it wouldn't be security, eh. ;) But I get your point. | 20:33 |
| blogan | im pretty sure we'll have everything secure on the first go round | 20:33 |
| rm_work | yeah, definitely. 100% unbreakable | 20:33 |
| blogan | we should announce that on twitter | 20:33 |
| davidlenwell | famous last words | 20:33 |
| sbalukoff | Haha | 20:33 |
| xgerman | that will get us some free pen tests | 20:34 |
| blogan | exactly | 20:34 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, so anyone with security chops people on their team should point them at that spec. | 20:34 |
| davidlenwell | sbalukoff: get dustin and deva to look at it | 20:34 |
| sbalukoff | #action Octavia team members with access to security people should have them look at: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130659/ | 20:34 |
| sbalukoff | davidlenwell: I will. | 20:34 |
| sbalukoff | Ok! amiller and / or TrevorV: update on the compute driver interface? | 20:35 |
| TrevorV | I've got a few reviews up and waiting for some vision on them | 20:35 |
| sbalukoff | Great! | 20:35 |
| sbalukoff | Please hit us with the links. | 20:35 |
| blogan | it'd be almost done if would catch everything on the first pass | 20:35 |
| TrevorV | I got some great feedback from sbalukoff and blogan just yesterday and am currently making changes to one of them | 20:35 |
| blogan | if i | 20:35 |
| TrevorV | I'm actually about to push a change | 20:36 |
| blogan | "great feedback" eh | 20:36 |
| TrevorV | Let me link them really quick | 20:36 |
| sbalukoff | Haha! | 20:36 |
| TrevorV | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130352 | 20:36 |
| TrevorV | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130640 | 20:36 |
| TrevorV | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133108 | 20:36 |
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| ajmiller | As far as I am aware, my part of the spec is done. TrevorV and I have had discussions about what should be defined where, and we think we have that worked out. | 20:36 |
| TrevorV | Conveniently they are dependency chained together | 20:36 |
| TrevorV | +1 ajmiller | 20:37 |
| sbalukoff | Excellent, eh! | 20:37 |
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| sbalukoff | #action eyes on the above review links | 20:37 |
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| sbalukoff | Let's see... | 20:37 |
| blogan | does anyone think that OCtavia will need to get amphorae by name? | 20:37 |
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| blogan | if you do, then go comment on the review | 20:38 |
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| sbalukoff | *crickets* | 20:38 |
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| a2hill | it is a convenient way for a user to query for it | 20:38 |
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| a2hill | uuid is hard to remember | 20:38 |
| sbalukoff | a2hill: But... will a user ever actually being querying for it? | 20:38 |
| TrevorV | a2hill they user isn't ever going to know about an "amphora" though | 20:38 |
| TrevorV | the** | 20:38 |
| sbalukoff | hostnames are going to be auto-generated too, eh. | 20:38 |
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| johnsom | Right, I *hope* the user has no concept of amphora | 20:38 |
| sbalukoff | Yep. | 20:38 |
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| sbalukoff | Only the operator can see behind the curtain. | 20:39 |
| sbalukoff | (Or at least, that's how it should be.) | 20:39 |
| xgerman | well, there is always the operator side of it | 20:39 |
| a2hill | i suppose not, that was cleared up | 20:39 |
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| a2hill | bait car! | 20:39 |
| TrevorV | xgerman the operator wouldn't have need of a name either, since everything should be known by the operator, right? | 20:39 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: blogan's point was that we'll always know the UUID whenever we know the name. | 20:39 |
| sbalukoff | TrevorV: That was my thought too. | 20:40 |
| TrevorV | I hope the operator would have full insight ha ha | 20:40 |
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| xgerman | you would hope... | 20:40 |
| sbalukoff | Anyway, if you think we'll need to look up by name, please read through and comment on the review! | 20:40 |
| sbalukoff | Ok! | 20:40 |
| sbalukoff | So, controller update! | 20:40 |
| johnsom | We don't want to name our amphora because we don't want to get too attached to them.... grin | 20:40 |
| sbalukoff | johnsom: Are you working on this already (blueprint is assigned to you) | 20:40 |
| johnsom | Yes | 20:40 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, cool, can you give us an update? | 20:41 |
| blogan | queue rm_work's "they're cattle" | 20:41 |
| rm_work | technically dougwig coined that | 20:41 |
| xgerman | lol | 20:41 |
| johnsom | I have started working on it, but stopped to address the burning need with the base-image. I am back on it now | 20:41 |
| sbalukoff | amphorae are so cattle. | 20:41 |
| blogan | rm_work: technically there were many sessions on it at the summit | 20:41 |
| johnsom | Hope to have some WIP stuff posted soon | 20:41 |
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| sbalukoff | johnsom: Excellent! | 20:41 |
| rm_work | ah | 20:41 |
| a2hill | Yea, a few were actually titled that | 20:41 |
| blogan | johnsom: is there a spec out or is that what you're working on? | 20:42 |
| rm_work | johnsom: you are working on "the controller"? | 20:42 |
| johnsom | I am working on "the controller spec" | 20:42 |
| rm_work | we were doing a lot of controller-related whiteboarding here yesterday, and it's looking like whatever we are calling "the controller" is really just a collection of agents | 20:42 |
| blogan | excellent | 20:42 |
| johnsom | Yes, which aligns with my thinking too | 20:42 |
| rm_work | this is the #1 thing we'll need to whiteboard I think | 20:43 |
| xgerman | agreed | 20:43 |
| johnsom | Agreed | 20:43 |
| blogan | #1a | 20:43 |
| rm_work | I wouldn't expect that spec to be finalized before the meetup | 20:43 |
| blogan | #1b is networking | 20:43 |
| rm_work | well, I think most of the other stuff on the list falls out of the controller discussion | 20:43 |
| sbalukoff | Heh! | 20:43 |
| johnsom | Hahaha, funny man. I expect a lot of discussion | 20:43 |
| xgerman | yeah, if you guys have whiteboards I am wondering if you cna take pictures and forward | 20:43 |
| rm_work | the HP offices have LOTS of whiteboards, right? | 20:44 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, so: johnsom, it would be great if you could commit a WIP review as soon as you're able, with the understanding it'll probably take several weeks and at least one good whiteboarding session at the hack-a-thon to finalize it. | 20:44 |
| rm_work | We will need approximale 1000 sqft of whiteboard | 20:44 |
| rm_work | *approximately | 20:44 |
| xgerman | we have ways to erase whiteboards | 20:44 |
| johnsom | Yes, that is the plan | 20:44 |
| blogan | we will also need some boxing gloves | 20:44 |
| sbalukoff | Sweet. | 20:44 |
| rm_work | xgerman: erase whiteboards? blasphemy | 20:44 |
| sbalukoff | Haha | 20:45 |
| sbalukoff | Ok! | 20:45 |
| sbalukoff | moving on... | 20:45 |
| sbalukoff | #topic Other reviews Needing Attention ( https://review.openstack.org/#/q/stackforge/octavia+status:open,n,z ) | 20:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other reviews Needing Attention ( https://review.openstack.org/#/q/stackforge/octavia+status:open,n,z ) (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:45 | |
| sbalukoff | Does anyone else here want to point out a review that's not yet been mentioned that needs eyes? | 20:45 |
| rm_work | the Barbican impl is up now | 20:45 |
| blogan | spare amphora lifecycle management | 20:45 |
| blogan | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130424/ | 20:45 |
| blogan | don't think that actually got a call out to reveiw | 20:45 |
| rm_work | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132580/ | 20:45 |
| rm_work | just fixed the merge conflict, should be good now | 20:46 |
| sbalukoff | Nice! | 20:46 |
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| sbalukoff | It's great to see all the progress on this, y'all! | 20:46 |
| sbalukoff | Feel like we've got good momentum going, so let's keep at it, eh! | 20:46 |
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| sbalukoff | Any other reviews needing attention? | 20:47 |
| sbalukoff | #topic Open Discussion | 20:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:48 | |
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| sbalukoff | johnsom: Ok, let's talk about the base-image review | 20:48 |
| johnsom | Cool. So, your comment about dropping the RedHat tribe... Fedora and CentOS where in the spec and we get most of that free from upstream. | 20:49 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, that's fine. Do we have a way to test the code via CI? | 20:49 |
| johnsom | I would like to keep them as options, but make it clear they are experimental. | 20:49 |
| johnsom | Yeah, we could enable the tox to also build and look at those if we feel the need | 20:49 |
| sbalukoff | I'm OK with that, I suppose, though I'd be happier if they weren't experimental (and testable via CI). | 20:49 |
| sbalukoff | Right. | 20:50 |
| xgerman | well, I would assume rohara would have enough interest in those OS | 20:50 |
| sbalukoff | I honestly don't expect many people to use an amphora image other than the one that is under primary support. | 20:50 |
| sbalukoff | Unless they happen to work for RedHat or something. XD | 20:50 |
| johnsom | I can add them to the tox if you would like. It will just make it take three times as long | 20:50 |
| johnsom | Or we can do that later... | 20:51 |
| xgerman | I am for later | 20:51 |
| sbalukoff | Let's worry about it later. | 20:51 |
| johnsom | Excellent answer | 20:51 |
| johnsom | grin | 20:51 |
| * rm_work kicks the rock down the road a bit | 20:51 | |
| johnsom | Next up, the init scripts. I put them in to have something that supports reboots, etc. | 20:51 |
| johnsom | I expected that when the code lands that manages all of those haproxy instances would update/remove | 20:52 |
| sbalukoff | Right, let's not do them for now. The scripts davidlenwell and I will be writing will control the haproxy instances, including after reboot. | 20:52 |
| sbalukoff | Let's not even put the init scripts in there right now. They're not going to be useful at all. :/ | 20:52 |
| davidlenwell | agreed | 20:53 |
| johnsom | Ok, so, remove them from the commit or disable? | 20:53 |
| sbalukoff | Remove them. | 20:53 |
| davidlenwell | +1 | 20:53 |
| johnsom | Ok. The upstart I wrote has respawn working for haproxy. You might want to borrow that for your scripts, etc. | 20:53 |
| sbalukoff | Thanks for the heads up! | 20:54 |
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| sbalukoff | Anything else you'd like to discuss about this review live? | 20:54 |
| johnsom | README.md these came from another project. Nuke 'em, or do you really want me to convert those? I pulled them forward because they seemed to still apply | 20:55 |
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| sbalukoff | So, if we're going to have document files at all, I want them to be .rst. | 20:55 |
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| johnsom | Same thing with the nonlocal_bind, that came from the upstream tripleo haproxy configs. | 20:55 |
| sbalukoff | And if the documentation in there is still useful, let's convert them. | 20:55 |
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| sbalukoff | But they are only 1 line (of poorly written English) | 20:55 |
| sbalukoff | So I'm not sure they're actually useful. | 20:55 |
| xgerman | did we ever vote on rst vs. md | 20:55 |
| xgerman | ? | 20:56 |
| johnsom | Agreed, they do not have good grammar | 20:56 |
| blogan | that was your grammar don't lie | 20:56 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: I'd rather just use one standard, and everything else with more complication is using .rst in this project. | 20:56 |
| sbalukoff | So, let's just keep going with .rst | 20:56 |
| johnsom | Haha, go look at that sahara project files.... grin | 20:56 |
| sbalukoff | I don't see a compelling reason to support .md | 20:56 |
| blogan | lol | 20:56 |
| xgerman | well, I don't liek converting for the sake of converting | 20:57 |
| johnsom | Yeah, it seems like every project has a mix in OpenStack land | 20:57 |
| sbalukoff | Sure, but we're talking about 3 1-line files which will probably be removed anyway. | 20:57 |
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| sbalukoff | Let's not do that. XD | 20:57 |
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| blogan | we need to make an Openstack Document Format Working Group | 20:58 |
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| xgerman | +1 | 20:58 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: I'm willing to bet there already is one, probably in the docs project, but I'll bet they get ignored a lot. | 20:58 |
| xgerman | we can state a strong preference but I don't want to force people borrowing stuff to convert every change the donating project does | 20:58 |
| sbalukoff | (Especially if in some projects "the code is the documentation" is the prevailing attitude.) | 20:58 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: I'm OK with that. | 20:59 |
| sbalukoff | But realize I'm probably going to complain whenever I see a .md file. | 20:59 |
| sbalukoff | :) | 20:59 |
| sbalukoff | Ok! 20 seconds left! | 20:59 |
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| sbalukoff | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 19 20:59:55 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/octavia/2014/octavia.2014-11-19-19.59.html | 20:59 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/octavia/2014/octavia.2014-11-19-19.59.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/octavia/2014/octavia.2014-11-19-19.59.log.html | 21:00 |
| sbalukoff | Thanks folks! | 21:00 |
| jorgem | thanks | 21:00 |
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| johnsom | Thanks sbalukoff | 21:00 |
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| xgerman | thanks | 21:00 |
| blogan | thanks everyone | 21:00 |
| bedis | thanks :) | 21:00 |
| sbalukoff | bedis: Ready for a call? | 21:00 |
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| bedis | yes | 21:01 |
| bedis | but we need a conf call bridge | 21:01 |
| bedis | I can setup one | 21:01 |
| bedis | or we can chat on a dedicated channel on freenode | 21:01 |
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| sbalukoff | bedis: Whatever you would prefer. | 21:02 |
| sbalukoff | I'm happy to chat via text if that's easier. | 21:02 |
| bedis | let me setup a conf call bridge :) | 21:02 |
| sbalukoff | Ok! | 21:02 |
| aiharos | bedis: PM the call info | 21:03 |
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| bedis | yep | 21:04 |
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| sbalukoff | FWIW, I could get a phone conference bridge going right now too, if you'd like! | 21:07 |
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