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| aspiers | #startmeeting ha | 09:02 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 21 09:02:47 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is aspiers. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ha)" | 09:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ha' | 09:02 |
| samP | hi o/ | 09:03 |
| aspiers | hi :) anyone else here today? | 09:03 |
| aspiers | I'll try to do a better job with minutes than last time ... | 09:03 |
| aspiers | OK, I guess just us | 09:04 |
| aspiers | #topic specs | 09:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "specs (Meeting topic: ha)" | 09:05 | |
| samP | OK I've just update VM recovery spec. | 09:05 |
| aspiers | #info VM recovery spec is making progress | 09:05 |
| aspiers | yeah I saw, thanks. I will be working on these over the vacation while it is quiet | 09:06 |
| aspiers | I have had a lot of urgent customer issues recently :-( | 09:06 |
| samP | And I put a comment on compute node monitoring spec also | 09:07 |
| aspiers | great thanks! | 09:07 |
| aspiers | I'll reply to that ASAP | 09:07 |
| *** kzaitsev_mb has quit IRC | 09:07 | |
| aspiers | a general format makes a lot of sense | 09:07 |
| samP | yeh, I would like to have more discussion on that. | 09:08 |
| aspiers | my feeling is that the specs need to be quite precise about the implementation | 09:08 |
| aspiers | to ensure we can have compatibility between implementations | 09:08 |
| samP | aspiers: sure | 09:09 |
| aspiers | but ddeja does not seem so sure | 09:09 |
| aspiers | well, I guess I need to think about this more | 09:10 |
| aspiers | did you see the conversation from last week? if not, worth reading I think | 09:11 |
| samP | yes, I read it | 09:11 |
| aspiers | ok cool | 09:11 |
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| aspiers | I suggested that the libvirtd/nova-compute RAs should do normal process monitoring *and* recovery, but also send HTTP message when monitor fails and when starting/ending recovery | 09:12 |
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| haukebruno | hey | 09:12 |
| aspiers | then the external process recovery component could decide its own policy | 09:12 |
| aspiers | oh hey haukebruno :) | 09:12 |
| samP | haukebruno: hi! | 09:12 |
| samP | aspiers: I agree | 09:13 |
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| aspiers | samP: ok great, I think I will propose that as the preferred implementation in the spec | 09:13 |
| aspiers | samP: but I will list alternatives | 09:13 |
| aspiers | samP: maybe including one where Pacemaker gets enhanced | 09:14 |
| samP | aspiers: I'm wondering how much further should I wire in spec "VM recovery" | 09:14 |
| aspiers | and definitely including the one where we do service-disable on every stop | 09:14 |
| aspiers | samP: I think VM recovery spec needs to document the interface point | 09:15 |
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| samP | aspiers: if we wants to put more details about implementation in spec, I prefer to have fix the notification format first | 09:16 |
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| *** tepper.freenode.net changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:16 | |
| aspiers | uhhh | 09:16 |
| aspiers | #topic VM recovery spec | 09:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "VM recovery spec (Meeting topic: ha)" | 09:16 | |
| aspiers | :) | 09:17 |
| aspiers | samP: yes, that makes sense | 09:17 |
| aspiers | samP: did you see Qiming's suggestion about versioning? | 09:18 |
| aspiers | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/406659/2/specs/newton/approved/newton-instance-ha-host-monitoring-spec.rst@205 | 09:18 |
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| aspiers | #agreed that we should decide on a standard format for all HTTP notifications, across all components | 09:19 |
| samP | how about have a simple spec for notification format and lets make reference it from each spec | 09:20 |
| aspiers | samP: ok sure | 09:20 |
| samP | aspiers: yes, about JSON ver? | 09:20 |
| aspiers | the versioning sounds like a good idea to me | 09:21 |
| aspiers | I guess there is already an oslo standard? | 09:21 |
| aspiers | hmm, maybe just nova | 09:23 |
| aspiers | http://developer.openstack.org/api-guide/compute/microversions.html | 09:23 |
| samP | I couldn't fine any doc in oslo | 09:23 |
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| aspiers | this looks like a good place to start | 09:24 |
| * ddeja forgot about the meeting... | 09:24 | |
| ddeja | sorry guys, hello all | 09:24 |
| aspiers | ddeja: haha no problem :) | 09:24 |
| samP | ddeja: hi | 09:24 |
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| ddeja | but, I remember on Monday that there is no meeting | 09:25 |
| aspiers | that's a good start anyway :) | 09:25 |
| aspiers | ddeja: samP has a nice suggestion to standardize the common bits of HTTP message format across all components | 09:25 |
| ddeja | that's good | 09:25 |
| ddeja | wheras I'm still not sure if it's a good idea to standarize it at all, as I stated in one of the reviews | 09:26 |
| aspiers | ddeja: yes I saw that | 09:26 |
| aspiers | ddeja: I'm fine with your driver idea, but I think we have to specify the message format in the specs | 09:26 |
| aspiers | ddeja: since the main point of the specs is to allow different implementations of each component to be compatible | 09:27 |
| aspiers | so that they are interchangeable | 09:27 |
| ddeja | OK | 09:27 |
| ddeja | we can add an abstraction layer for compatibility reasons | 09:28 |
| ddeja | I'm afraid that it may be seen as an overhead for others | 09:28 |
| ddeja | and noone would use it | 09:28 |
| aspiers | what kind of overhead do you mean? | 09:29 |
| aspiers | performance, or implementation? | 09:29 |
| ddeja | niether of them | 09:30 |
| ddeja | let me show as an example | 09:30 |
| aspiers | ok | 09:30 |
| ddeja | let's say we have someone who wants to use Masakari | 09:30 |
| ddeja | for VM ha | 09:31 |
| ddeja | he would have to a) setup pacamaker | 09:31 |
| ddeja | b) setup agent that monitors vm | 09:31 |
| ddeja | c) setup agent that receive alarms from monitor and inform Maskari | 09:31 |
| ddeja | and d) Masakri itself | 09:31 |
| ddeja | what he woudl think about it? | 09:31 |
| aspiers | no, c) and d) are the same | 09:31 |
| ddeja | OK | 09:32 |
| ddeja | then, we need Masakri to be able to read the http message that monitor would send | 09:32 |
| ddeja | same for Mistral | 09:32 |
| aspiers | yes | 09:32 |
| ddeja | same for everything | 09:32 |
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| * ddeja is now entering 'mistral core mode' | 09:33 | |
| ddeja | so, as for Mistral | 09:33 |
| aspiers | sometimes it might be easier to write a shim which proxies notifications | 09:33 |
| aspiers | but that's up to the individual implementation | 09:33 |
| ddeja | unless that http message is openstack complaint, I see no way to implement something like that in Mistral | 09:33 |
| * ddeja closed 'mistral core mode' :) | 09:34 | |
| aspiers | ok so in the mistral case maybe a shim is required | 09:34 |
| aspiers | is there a problem with that? | 09:34 |
| ddeja | aspiers: for me there is no | 09:34 |
| ddeja | but if we go this way | 09:35 |
| ddeja | we got a, b, c and d | 09:35 |
| ddeja | (as in my example) | 09:35 |
| aspiers | right | 09:35 |
| ddeja | and given someone may think "hm, why I need something that just caches the alarm and sends it to recovery service" | 09:35 |
| ddeja | "why I can just notify the recovery itself?" | 09:35 |
| ddeja | and given someone would end up writing his own monitor | 09:36 |
| ddeja | that's why I think driver-based architecture woudl be better | 09:36 |
| ddeja | in vm monitor spec, we just specyfi what information would be passed to driver layer | 09:37 |
| ddeja | and what to do with it, is up to driver writer/maintener | 09:37 |
| aspiers | but then we have no guarantee of compatibility | 09:37 |
| ddeja | yes, but what kind of copatibility you need at this point? | 09:38 |
| ddeja | you just want to catch the alaram and send it to recovery service of your choice | 09:38 |
| aspiers | compatibility between monitors and recovery services | 09:38 |
| ddeja | it would be guaranteed by the driver | 09:39 |
| aspiers | the driver in the monitor? | 09:39 |
| ddeja | which means, we don't need to specyfi what kind of informatio recovery service needs to understand | 09:39 |
| ddeja | we just specyfi that we have a drive that can notify the recovery service and it woudl understand it | 09:40 |
| aspiers | but if that's undocumented then there is no reliable way for multiple implementations to be compatible | 09:41 |
| ddeja | aspiers: agree | 09:41 |
| ddeja | aspiers: taking it other way around: why we want it to be compatible? | 09:41 |
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| ddeja | as I said before: you just want to catch the alaram and send it to recovery service of your choice | 09:42 |
| aspiers | so that we can incrementally move from existing vendor implementations to a single upstream converged implementation | 09:42 |
| ddeja | aspiers: so you can change each peace independently? | 09:42 |
| aspiers | yes | 09:42 |
| ddeja | that's one thing I didn't take into account | 09:43 |
| aspiers | that was the whole point of the approach we agreed in Tokyo | 09:43 |
| ddeja | OK | 09:43 |
| ddeja | what if we have a driver that still talks "the old way" | 09:43 |
| aspiers | because several of us have existing implementations which are in production and supported for customers | 09:43 |
| ddeja | and then, when you change the revocery service, you just switch the driver? | 09:44 |
| aspiers | ddeja: yes, that would be perfect. any support for communication an "old way" is of course still allowed, but outside the scope of the spec | 09:44 |
| ddeja | or, why not both? | 09:44 |
| ddeja | I mean | 09:44 |
| aspiers | both is fine | 09:44 |
| ddeja | let's do the driver architecture | 09:45 |
| ddeja | specyfi what information are given to it | 09:45 |
| aspiers | the specs should only require support for the new way, they are not exclusive deals which prohibit the old ways :) | 09:45 |
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| ddeja | and give one driver that is "the" driver | 09:45 |
| aspiers | for which component? | 09:46 |
| ddeja | for monitor | 09:46 |
| ddeja | that talks using the specyfied http message | 09:46 |
| aspiers | VM monitor or host monitor? | 09:46 |
| aspiers | or both | 09:46 |
| ddeja | VM monitor | 09:46 |
| ddeja | but for host monitor it should also works | 09:46 |
| ddeja | then we can specyfi the modular architecture beetwen monitors<->Recovery services | 09:47 |
| ddeja | using standard drivers | 09:47 |
| aspiers | I like the idea of drivers, but I don't see why the spec would need to require a driver architecture | 09:47 |
| aspiers | any component is free to use a driver architecture, but why force all implementations to have one? | 09:47 |
| ddeja | so that we can ommit the point 'c' for some recovery services ;) | 09:47 |
| aspiers | sure, but why does it have to be in the spec? | 09:48 |
| ddeja | we just let the user choice: either your recovery service understand the standard http message | 09:48 |
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| ddeja | aspiers: I didn't say it's need to be in spec :) | 09:48 |
| aspiers | oh ok :) | 09:48 |
| aspiers | so I think we are agreed on everything then :) | 09:49 |
| aspiers | hmm | 09:49 |
| ddeja | I think so | 09:49 |
| aspiers | maybe not | 09:49 |
| aspiers | :) | 09:49 |
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| ddeja | ? | 09:49 |
| aspiers | I am thinking ... | 09:49 |
| aspiers | OK, so let's say we implement a VM monitor with notification drivers | 09:50 |
| ddeja | I just don't like the idea to writing some proxy service that translate our standard http message to mistral | 09:50 |
| aspiers | then we implement a) a driver for notifying Mistral | 09:50 |
| samP | sounds good, lest discuss more in the spec | 09:50 |
| aspiers | b) a driver for sending standard HTTP message | 09:50 |
| ddeja | aspiers: because of this -> https://xkcd.com/927/ | 09:50 |
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| * aspiers guesses that is the one about standards | 09:51 | |
| aspiers | right :) | 09:51 |
| haukebruno | lol | 09:51 |
| ddeja | aspiers: I think we need to only implement b) | 09:51 |
| ddeja | as a starting point | 09:51 |
| aspiers | ddeja: but driver b) requires a shim, and you want to eliminate that for mistral | 09:52 |
| samP | ddeja: how do you propose to implement drivers? | 09:52 |
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| ddeja | aspiers: and for anything else, that cannot understand the standard http message | 09:53 |
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| aspiers | but if you don't provide the shim, the only way for each VM monitor implementation to be compatible with mistral is by talking directly to it | 09:53 |
| ddeja | aspiers: yes, I want to elimiante it, but let's make it work in one standard way, then add next implementation | 09:53 |
| ddeja | that's how I see it | 09:53 |
| ddeja | samP: I think of it as some standard base class, to which we would pass a given set of input parameters | 09:54 |
| ddeja | and then call some method, like 'notify' on it | 09:54 |
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| ddeja | that's all | 09:54 |
| ddeja | the rest is on the drivers writer side | 09:54 |
| aspiers | ddeja: oh, so you are saying we *would* write a shim for initial case? | 09:55 |
| aspiers | ddeja: and then later optimise by adding mistral-specific driver? | 09:55 |
| ddeja | aspiers: maybe | 09:55 |
| aspiers | that could work | 09:55 |
| ddeja | or maybe just made it work with only Masakari at first moment | 09:55 |
| ddeja | or we can write a driver nearly in the same time, it shouldn't be a big deal | 09:56 |
| samP | ddeja: OK, got it. | 09:56 |
| ddeja | what is more, with drivers it may be easier to be complaint with someone existing solution | 09:56 |
| ddeja | he just uses/writes a driver that is compliant with exisitn recovery workflow | 09:56 |
| ddeja | service | 09:57 |
| aspiers | yes I'm definitely in favour of drivers where it makes sense | 09:57 |
| aspiers | I'm just trying to figure out what should be in the specs though | 09:57 |
| ddeja | then switches to Masakari/Mistral (are there any other standards?) | 09:57 |
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| ddeja | and switches the driver | 09:57 |
| ddeja | aspiers: I don't think it must be specyfi in the spec itself | 09:58 |
| aspiers | right | 09:58 |
| ddeja | maybe just information about 'modular architecture' | 09:58 |
| ddeja | so it woudl be easy to notify various recovery services? | 09:58 |
| samP | IMO, spec should contain all the info can obtain from monitors. Then drivers can choose what they want | 09:58 |
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| ddeja | samP: that's what I was thinking too :) | 09:59 |
| aspiers | ok, still not sure I follow 100% but we're out of time so let's just continue working in gerrit :) | 09:59 |
| aspiers | good discussion though, thanks! | 09:59 |
| samP | yep. thanks ddeja | 10:00 |
| ddeja | aspiers: I'll make some diagram to show my idea :) | 10:00 |
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| aspiers | ddeja: perfect! | 10:00 |
| ddeja | thanks guys! | 10:00 |
| aspiers | thanks :) | 10:00 |
| aspiers | #endmeeting | 10:00 |
| samP | ddeja: that would be great | 10:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 10:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 21 10:00:28 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 10:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ha/2016/ha.2016-12-21-09.02.html | 10:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ha/2016/ha.2016-12-21-09.02.txt | 10:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ha/2016/ha.2016-12-21-09.02.log.html | 10:00 |
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| haukebruno | thankas all | 10:02 |
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| devkulkarni | #startmeeting Solum Team Meeting | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 21 14:00:56 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is devkulkarni. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'solum_team_meeting' | 14:01 |
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| caowei | Hi Dev | 14:16 |
| devkulkarni | hi caowei | 14:16 |
| devkulkarni | great to see you | 14:16 |
| devkulkarni | how is it going? | 14:16 |
| devkulkarni | here is agenda for today's meeting: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Solum | 14:17 |
| caowei | you too, very busy recently | 14:17 |
| devkulkarni | ah I see.. I thought so :) | 14:17 |
| caowei | doing projects now | 14:18 |
| devkulkarni | oh I see | 14:18 |
| devkulkarni | we can keep the meeting short | 14:18 |
| devkulkarni | I have two things to discuss | 14:18 |
| devkulkarni | first is about your patches for adding solum support kolla | 14:19 |
| devkulkarni | I was wondering if you had a chance to update our README about how to consume/use solum's kolla containers | 14:19 |
| devkulkarni | I believe your patches are going to really help in setting up solum's devstack environment. so it will be really helpful for users to have that information in the README | 14:20 |
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| devkulkarni | if you get some time, I would encourage you to update the README | 14:22 |
| caowei | The patche need continue to perform, couldn't be used now. | 14:22 |
| caowei | yes, I will | 14:23 |
| devkulkarni | you mean there are still some things remaining to be added to kolla patches for it to become useful? | 14:23 |
| caowei | yes | 14:23 |
| devkulkarni | oh okay | 14:24 |
| devkulkarni | in that case we can hold off on updating the README (and update it once those patches have been submitted and merged) | 14:24 |
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| devkulkarni | but if you think we can still update the docs with some information about kolla's solum containers then that would be useful as well | 14:25 |
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| devkulkarni | caowei: second thing I wanted to discuss was about our devstack-xenial gate for solum | 14:26 |
| devkulkarni | it is currently failing | 14:27 |
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| devkulkarni | zhurong and I discussed about it last week | 14:27 |
| devkulkarni | zhurong thought that reverting to previous commit of devstack might help | 14:27 |
| devkulkarni | and he had submitted a patch for that https://review.openstack.org/#/c/409587/ | 14:28 |
| devkulkarni | but as you can see, that patch is failing in the Jenkins gate | 14:28 |
| devkulkarni | caowei: the main issue seems like nova's cell feature was made unconditional in devstack | 14:30 |
| devkulkarni | and that is somehow causing one of the nova services to not get started | 14:30 |
| devkulkarni | which is causing solum services to not start, leading to gate failure | 14:30 |
| devkulkarni | caowei: if you have some time, can you take a look at the failure logs with fresh eyes..zhurong and I have also looked at it.. if you also look at it, we all will have context of the failure and can then discuss strategies to fix the gate | 14:32 |
| caowei | Ok, I have to check later. | 14:34 |
| devkulkarni | caowei: cool, thanks .. it will just help the discussion as there might be different ideas on how to resolve the issue | 14:35 |
| devkulkarni | we can sync up later this week if you and zhu have some time | 14:36 |
| devkulkarni | caowei: apart from these two topics, one another topic is that of the python 3.5 support | 14:37 |
| devkulkarni | this is being proposed as one of the community-wide goals for the upcoming Pike cycle | 14:37 |
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| devkulkarni | caowei: I will have more details about the goal in next meeting | 14:40 |
| caowei | yes | 14:41 |
| devkulkarni | there is patch about it on the governance repo. I have skimmed through it. will read it before the next meeting | 14:41 |
| devkulkarni | we can have more discussion about what needs to be done to satisfy the goal after that | 14:42 |
| devkulkarni | caowei: cool | 14:42 |
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| devkulkarni | caowei: anything that you have on mind that we should discuss? | 14:42 |
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| caowei | no | 14:43 |
| devkulkarni | caowei: alright, in that case we can end today's meeting | 14:44 |
| caowei | ok | 14:44 |
| devkulkarni | caowei: I will send email to you and zhu to setup a time for us to discuss about the gate issue | 14:44 |
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| devkulkarni | caowei: thanks for joining the meeting today | 14:44 |
| devkulkarni | see you next time :) | 14:44 |
| devkulkarni | #endmeeting | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 21 14:45:09 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/solum_team_meeting/2016/solum_team_meeting.2016-12-21-14.00.html | 14:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/solum_team_meeting/2016/solum_team_meeting.2016-12-21-14.00.txt | 14:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/solum_team_meeting/2016/solum_team_meeting.2016-12-21-14.00.log.html | 14:45 |
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| rkukura | hi ML2’ers! | 16:01 |
| Sukhdev_ | hello | 16:01 |
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| rkukura | I did not put together an agenda for today’s meeting. If anyone has anything to discuss, lets do that, but otherwise, I propose we skip today’s meeting. | 16:02 |
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| Sukhdev_ | I am OK either way | 16:03 |
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| rkukura | I see yamamoto and andreas_s are online - do either of you have anything for today’s ML2 meeting? | 16:04 |
| dasanind | rkukura: Sukhdev_ if you have time it will be great if you can review the live migration patch | 16:04 |
| dasanind | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404293/ | 16:04 |
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| yamamoto | i have nothing | 16:04 |
| dasanind | it's still work in progress | 16:05 |
| Sukhdev_ | dasanind : I will | 16:05 |
| andreas_s | rkukura, hi no sorry, I need to leave in a few minutes anyhow | 16:05 |
| rkukura | dasanind: Thanks for the pointer - I will as soon as I can | 16:05 |
| rkukura | OK, lets skip today | 16:06 |
| dasanind | Sukhdev_: thank you. I will split the patch into 2 one for the db changes and the other for the new extension | 16:06 |
| dasanind | thank you Sukhdev_ and rkukura | 16:06 |
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| rkukura | next ML2 subteam meeting is 1/14/2017. Happy holidays! | 16:06 |
| Sukhdev_ | dasanind : that is a good idea - smaller the patch, better it is | 16:07 |
| Sukhdev_ | Happy Holidays and happy new year!!! | 16:07 |
| dasanind | Sukhdev_: cool | 16:07 |
| dasanind | Happy Holidays and Happy new year everybody | 16:08 |
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| rkukura | I meant 1/4/2017, not 1/14/2017. Sorry. | 16:08 |
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