Wednesday, 2012-12-19

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jgriffithI see Cinder folks joining the channel...16:00
jgriffiththink we can get started16:00
jgriffith#start meeting cinder16:01
jgriffith#startmeeting cinder16:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec 19 16:01:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:01
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thingeeo/16:01
eharneyo/16:01
bswartzhi16:01
avishayhi16:01
jgriffithhey .... ok, of course the folks who's BP's I pushed out yesterday aren't here :)16:02
jgriffithLet's get started anyway and they can catch up or we can back-track16:02
jgriffith#topic G2 status16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "G2 status (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:02
jgriffithWe're looking pretty good I think16:03
jgriffithI did push out local-volumes, expected_states and the metering BP's16:03
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bswartzthe date is Jan 10th right?16:03
jgriffithbswartz: hehe... well as of today yes16:04
rushiagrhi, oops, m late16:04
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jgriffithSo that's possibly going to change16:04
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jgriffithThere's some schedule tweaking going on to accomodate when the summit might land16:05
jgriffithMost likely it will stay, but ther'es a possibility that it will push out a week16:05
bswartzmore time is always welcome16:06
jgriffith:)16:06
jgriffithanyway..16:07
jgriffithhttps://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/grizzly-216:07
jgriffithI'm still concerned about volume-backups, anybody have any updates on that one?16:07
frankmI can talk about that16:07
jgriffithhey... frankm didn't see ya standing there16:08
frankmThe architecture changes for the port are larger than we expected in terms of volume handling16:08
frankmWe're working though them, it's slowed us down a little16:09
jgriffithso what are your thoughts re G2?16:09
frankmBut on the plus side the volume backups will fit into the pluggable backend architecture16:09
jgriffithand btw do you have anything up on github for folks to start looking at?16:09
frankmWe're still pushing to hit G216:10
frankmNothing on githib yet, we should have something up there early in new year16:10
jgriffithfrankm: hmm... I'm kinda worried16:10
jgriffithfrankm: only because it's a fairly significant change16:11
jgriffithfrankm: I'm worried we won't have the review time it deserves16:11
DuncanTWe're pushing as fast as we can - as soon as we've got a draft to review, we'll put something up16:11
thingeefrankm: it would be good if you can have it broken up if possible so we can start reviewing some of it.16:12
jgriffithDuncanT: frankm Just to be clear, not a knock on your efforts at all16:12
jgriffithDuncanT: frankm just trying to plan ahead16:12
DuncanTnp16:12
frankmI understand16:12
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jgriffithwith most folks taking next week off I'm concerned the patch lands a day before lockdown :)16:12
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jgriffithRemember, release is the 10'th but we freeze a few days before that16:13
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DuncanTWe'll push as hard as we can to get something in as early as possible16:15
jgriffithOk we'll leave it for now and I"ll touch base with you after Christmas :)16:15
jgriffithMaybe we'll get an extra week, should know the answer to that later this week16:15
bswartzIf G2 slips, then would G3 automatically slip too?16:16
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jgriffithbswartz: yeah16:17
jgriffithSo the background is that we're talking about slipping G3 to aline closer to the summit date16:17
jgriffithas a result everything would slide16:17
jgriffithanyway, I'll let everyone know if that happens16:17
jgriffithand now I'm off my conf call so you all have my full undivided attention :)16:18
jgriffithback to remaining G2 items...16:18
jgriffithI think I've touched base with everyone16:18
jgriffithAnybody concerened they're not going to hit next week?16:18
jgriffithOr first week of January?16:19
jgriffithOr any surprises that aren't on this list that should be?16:19
xyang_Hi John.  This is Xing.  How about the code review for EMC Volume Driver?  Are you going to review it?16:19
jgriffithxyang_: yep16:20
jgriffithOk... if nobody wants to talk about G216:20
jgriffiththe only thing I'll add is as always we need reviewers16:20
jgriffithIf you're on core you should be looking at this at least once a day IMO16:20
bswartzhow much is ready for review already?16:21
jgriffithbswartz: ?16:21
xyang_Sorry I missed the beginnig of the meeting.  When will be G2?16:21
bswartzI mean how much more is coming relative to what's done now?16:21
jgriffithxyang_: Jan 10, but that last week is bug fixes only16:21
bswartzreview-wise16:21
jgriffithbswartz: a good bit :)16:21
jgriffithhttps://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/grizzly-216:21
jgriffithbswartz: You can see the status of the targetted items there16:22
bswartzI'll take a look at the "needs code review" stuff16:22
jgriffithbut also keep in mind there is work going on outside of targetted16:22
jgriffithit's best if folks can just jump on gerrit and search for open reviews in cinder and cinderclient16:22
jgriffithanyway...16:22
rushiagri started putting in couple of hours each day for code review, from today16:22
jgriffith#topic external PYPI includes16:23
*** openstack changes topic to "external PYPI includes (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:23
jgriffithSo the HP 3Par driver brings up an interesting new twist16:23
jgriffiththey have an external lib published to PYPI16:23
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jgriffithThis raises the question of packaging/adding it to the cinder project requires16:24
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bswartzexternal for licensing reasons?16:24
galthausSo, the question is how to handle dynamic dependencies?16:24
avishayjgriffith: I commented on that in my code review of the driver...seems odd16:24
jgriffithbswartz: thank goodness NO, otherwise it wouldn't even be a question IMO16:24
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kmartinhemna is not on but I should be able to answer any questions16:24
jgriffithSo the idea is they have it for other uses so don't want to maintain in two places16:24
bswartzokay16:25
jgriffithIt's valid IMO, however I'm not crazy about it16:25
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avishayIs there any way to keep the model but not require every user to install the client, regardless of what back-end they use?16:25
bswartzyeah it seems like you can keep the seperation between cinder and non-cinder things at an API level and not having to do funky code imports16:25
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jgriffithso the good thing is it's licensed under Apache16:26
jgriffithI'm leaning towards implement it in the driver like the rest of us...16:26
jgriffithOr...16:26
jgriffithYou can include it to get sucked in for unit tests but not in the release packaging16:27
galthausah - so the problem is more with the unit tests than the actual delivery of the driver.?16:27
avishayUnit tests use the fake driver - why is the real client needed?16:27
jgriffith:)16:27
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jgriffithSo this brings up all sorts of issues so let me just propose this:16:28
jgriffithMy personal thought is I do NOT want to go this route16:28
jgriffithwhile it makes sense for HP and their maintenance it's bad for ours16:28
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jgriffithwe technically should be reviewing their PYPI lib16:28
jgriffithI don't see why the existing httlib, json and  other tools can't be used in OpenStack16:29
jgriffithfor those that are intersted and haven't seen it:  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/hp3parclient16:30
galthausWhere does there lib hook in?  I haven't look at the pull request.16:30
galthausDoes it use a driver to wrap calls to hp3parclient?16:30
jgriffithhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/18351/16:31
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jgriffithwalter you around?16:32
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avishaygalthaus: the impression i got is that things related to the controller are in the separate package, and things related to OpenStack are in the driver16:32
kmartinjgriffith: no he's not on16:32
jgriffithkmartin: bummer16:32
galthausavishay: It appears that way.16:33
jgriffithavishay: galthaus yeah... sorry16:33
jgriffithavishay: galthaus what I haven't quite figured out is the need for it in unit tests16:33
avishayI also didn't really understand why there was ~100 LOC implementing SSH functions when there are available functions16:34
aabesseems that the client throws typed exceptions16:34
aabesdefined in the hp3par client module16:34
jgriffithaabes: yeah, but that's the only thing I can find16:34
aabesseems that they host the code on github... http://packages.python.org/hp3parclient/installation.html16:35
aabescan a similar approach to the openstack-common address the issues16:35
galthausyep - stubs for those and draw the line going forward that You need to provide stub libraries for external non-common dependencies.16:35
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galthausI'm not happy with that statement either, btw.16:36
kmartinavishay: the problem is the driver is ahead of the 3par release cycle, so the need to fall back to SSH16:36
avishaykmartin: i didn't do a thorough review, but couldn't they have used available SSH functions?16:37
jgriffithavishay: +116:37
jgriffithSo here's the main question IMO16:37
jgriffithDo we want to set a precedent of just using your own published external libs to do drivers in Openstack/cinder?16:37
kmartinwe could but due to the limited ssh connection on the 3par array we wanted to the REST route16:38
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winston-dsorry, i'm late16:38
aabesjgriffith: what about binary distributions?16:38
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jgriffithaabes: yeah so that's the next problem right16:39
bswartzjgriffith: I can see both advantages and disadvantages, I'm not sure I have a strong opinion on that one16:39
aabesor otherwise non OS code... vendors might chose not to expose internal efficient protocols.. mostly so they control the UX and support16:39
jgriffithbswartz: the disadvantage is when there's a bug reported against Cinder and we have to try and fix it16:39
jgriffithbswartz: and the bug is in their PYPI lib16:40
jgriffithbswartz: It's not that we don't deal with external tool chains already but we use them in a global manner16:40
aabesjgriffith: does that point towards coverage of unit tests?16:40
jgriffithusing them for a single driver in a project seems off to me16:40
jgriffithaabes: sure, in theory :)16:41
bswartzif the bug is only triggered when the 3par driver is active, I don't see how any would have a problem with it who wasn't also empowered to fix the bug where it needs to be fixed16:41
bswartzanyone* would have a problem16:41
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jgriffithbswartz: My point is I don't want to have to muck around with their client to triage or fix a bug that gets reported in Cinder16:42
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aabesthere's still the test-requires issue...16:42
jgriffithaabes: yup16:42
bswartzyeah the unit tests seems like a bigger issue than the bugs issue16:42
aabesif there's a test-fake-requires or somesuch, that allows you to test with fakes16:42
jgriffithbswartz: agree16:42
galthausjgriffith: But you have a worse problem in some regards if you make them include code that is specific to their stuff anyway.16:43
aabesor maybe the otherway around - test-<vendor>-requires16:43
jgriffithgalthaus: except it's in their driver :)16:43
galthausThis is in their library16:43
jgriffithgalthaus: we have access to the repo, single bug system, single review process etc16:43
aabesjgriffith: you'd still need a 3par box to be able to test it ;)16:44
jgriffithaabes: and there's the big problem with all of our drivers :)16:44
galthausYeah - I guess I don't see the distinction from a driver with specialized code and a driver that calls a library with specialized code.16:44
bswartzyeah that argues for not worrying about the bug thing -- a bug that is driver specific is not really fixable by people other than the vendor anyways16:45
jgriffithalright, well I'm not getting a clear picture on how people feel about this topic16:45
aabesimho, vendors will be highly motivated to give their users good UX and quick resolution to problems, as long as the finger can be pointed squarely at them16:45
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avishaybut if i make a change to cinder that requires minor changes to all drivers, i can do that, until now16:45
jgriffithgalthaus: I guess my point was that if it's a lib or a driver doesn't matter but my point was it might be best if it resided in Openstack/Cinder16:45
bswartzI don't think we need to worry too much about driver-specific bugs -- they only affect a subset of users, and those user presumably have contacts directly to their vendors16:45
galthausavishay: can you?  I'm not sure you can safely do it in ither case.16:45
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jgriffithbswartz: disagree... have you seen the bugs being logged against NetApp :)16:46
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bswartzyes, I was going to mention those16:46
jgriffithbswartz: theyre' logging them in Luanchpad against Cinder, not their NetApp support contacts16:46
avishaymy feeling is that i don't really care, but i'd rather not have to install this library if i don't use it16:46
bswartzI don't expect cinder-core people to fix our bugs16:46
DuncanTavishay: What's the difference between an ssh call that does unknowable magic and a local python call that does unknowable magic? Either way I can't change it without knowiing the semantics16:46
bswartzwe are fixing our own bugs16:46
galthausjgriffith: yeah.  There is a nicety to having it in your space.16:46
jgriffithOk... so no clear outcome here it seems16:47
jgriffithHow about this....16:47
galthausavishay: I think that is the underlying question.  Can we design/tweak the system to enable custom libraries, but validate taht the cinder code works.16:47
kmartinavishay: the driver is still in cinder,  just the python wrapper client that lives in the pypi, and the driver has unit test that also resides in cinder16:47
jgriffithFolks that are so inclined take a look at the review16:47
jgriffithIf there are things that the unit tests can/should be doing without the client then suggest it16:47
jgriffithIf we need to add it to test-requires, cool, we'll do so16:48
jgriffithFor end users....16:48
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kmartinYep, please comment on the review and Walt will be in later today to respond :)16:48
jgriffithWe don't try to get Cannonical and others to package it we jsut document it in the drivers section that the end user needs to install the lib16:48
aabeshmm... seems that some of the netapp bugs (the 2 i looked at) have to do with cinder->driver expectations....16:48
jgriffithaabes: and good lead in...16:49
aabes(have a plan to get a readme in lace, but other priorities)16:49
jgriffith#topic driver bugs16:49
*** openstack changes topic to "driver bugs (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:49
jgriffithSo this is NOT NetApp specific16:49
* bswartz hides16:49
jgriffiththis is general16:49
jgriffithso part of having a driver accepted in to Cinder and OpenStack is it's supported and it's part of OpenStack16:50
jgriffithThat means that we ALL have to support it16:50
jgriffithwe all have to contribute to bug fixes etc16:50
bswartzjgriffith: what if a bug is only reproducible with real hardware?16:50
jgriffithWhile there are cases that this may not be practical due to hardware that's not always the case16:50
jgriffithbswartz: agreed, there are cases where that's going to happend16:51
jgriffithhappend16:51
jgriffithAHHHH... keyboard16:51
* jgriffith is removing the d key16:51
jgriffithbut really,if we're not supporting what we put in then what's the point in integrating the driver?16:51
jgriffithIf you want to go that route just provide your customers with a patch or a driver yourself and leave the rest of us out of it :)16:52
bswartzI thought the point was to make it easy for the linux distros to redistribute all the drivers16:52
jgriffithbswartz: the point is that it's a supported OpenStack componenet16:52
aabesand users to consume it ;)16:52
jgriffithcomponent16:52
* jgriffith can't type this morning16:52
bswartzI don't think it's unreasonable to take the stance that Cinder distributes vendor-specific drivers, but does not support them16:53
jgriffithreally, if all OpenStack is to folks is a packaging method then I'm sure wasting an awful lot of my time16:53
bswartzif supporting them is really what we want to do, then I agree we need something better than what we have16:53
jgriffithbswartz: haha that should go over really well16:53
jgriffithbswartz: Ok, well I'll just start marking any bug that comes in and somebody is using a third party driver as invalid16:54
jgriffithI'll say, "not supported, just packaged"16:54
aabeslooking at ceph... cinder provides path to innovative integration of the pieces of openstack...16:54
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aabesyes.. you could in theory go and fix bugs in their code, but do you have a handy cluster of scale to test on?16:55
bswartzjgriffith: we track bugs internally -- the reason that there are also bugs filed against cinder is so we have something to reference when the fix goes in16:55
jgriffithalright, I think I'm wasting my breath16:55
jgriffithbut I'll just say...16:55
jgriffithWe still HAVE to triage every bug and make sure the problem is not in the Cinder infrastructure16:55
aabesthis one feels like an enhance,net request for the infra: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/109148016:56
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1091480 in cinder "NetApp: Errors if requests are too close together" [Undecided,New]16:56
jgriffithbut what you're saying is that if we do that and get to the point where it's in somebody's driver then leave it alone until somebody from NetApp, SolidFire or wherever comes in and fixes it?16:56
aabesa backoff mechanism, that might be applicable to many drivers16:56
jgriffithaabes: Yeah, and the answer is NO16:56
aabes:(16:57
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jgriffithUntil it's evident that a backoff mechanism is needed by all the other drivers16:57
jgriffithIMO16:57
aabesthat sounds fair.16:57
bswartzokay so I need to grab netapp specific bugs and assign them to myself or rushi, so they don't distract you guys16:57
bswartzsorry I didn't do that16:57
jgriffithbswartz: No, that's not really my point16:58
jgriffithbswartz: I don't think there's anything wrong or bad about anything right now16:58
jgriffithbswartz: I was just wanting to clarify some expectations16:58
jgriffithbswartz: but it seems I'm in the minority on this one as well16:58
jgriffithFolks seem to agree that OpenStack/Cinder is just a packaging/distribution mechanism for the vendors16:59
jgriffithso much for OpenSource16:59
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* jgriffith walks away depressed16:59
bswartzI think we're still getting benefits from open source here -- in case you didn't notice, one of our users actually fixed a bug he found in the netapp driver16:59
jgriffithbswartz: ahh... and there's my point17:00
* winston-d agrees with jgriffith on this one17:00
jgriffithbswartz: So the reason we review drivers and such is becuase we are expecting to offer at least some level of support17:01
jgriffithanyway... like I said, this applies to all drivers IMO17:01
jgriffiththis is NOT a NetApp related rant on my part or anything else17:01
jgriffithMeanwhile... it's also not very constructive so moving on17:02
bswartzokay -- so is the concern that our current model is incompatible with the plan for 3par wants to do?17:02
bswartzI like the idea of drivers being supported to the extent possible by the core team, as long as we understand there are limits to that support where real hardware is required17:03
avishayover time limit, gotta go - bye all17:03
jgriffithbswartz: indeed17:03
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jgriffithbswartz: there are limits for sure17:03
jgriffithbswartz: but we should make an effort17:03
jgriffithalright... we're about out of time17:04
jgriffith#topic open discussion17:04
hemnaok what did I miss?17:04
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: cinder)"17:04
winston-dhemna: you missed almost everything. :)17:04
jgriffithhaha17:05
aabes;)17:05
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jgriffithhemna: we can talk offline17:05
eharneyjgriffith: rtslib has been put into pypi now, so i'm going to go look at that for the LIO changes17:05
jgriffitheharney: :)17:05
aabesare we missing a possible benefit here - perusing through the 3par lib.. it mostly does very plain vanila things.17:05
jgriffitheharney: when did it land?17:06
jgriffithaabes: yeah, that's the beauty of it17:06
eharneyjgriffith: yesterday evening17:06
jgriffitheharney: nice!17:06
hemnaheh ok17:06
jgriffithSo how about this:17:06
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hemnaI just got in the office17:06
aabesdefine a few exceptions, and a few very basic methods. most seem generally applicable to cinder...17:06
jgriffithadd the external lib to the test-requires only17:06
jgriffithfor customers that want to use it document it as a requirement17:07
jgriffithin your driver add a check-setup function that verifies it's there17:07
jgriffithIn the case of the HP client this is works becuase it's Apached licensed so there's no conflict17:07
hemnaand how do you get the check-setup to be called prior to the import ?17:08
jgriffithhemna: You could do an __init__17:08
jgriffithhemna: I think it would work to do something like:  /drivers/hp/__init__.py, 3par_driver.py17:09
jgriffithhemna: There are also ways to wrap the import17:09
hemnaok17:09
jgriffithhemna: in fact IIRC there's a function in utils to do that17:09
jgriffithanyway17:09
jgriffithanybody else haveinput or care?17:09
jgriffith:)17:10
jgriffithIf you think I'm worrying about nothing please say so17:10
hemnaso I presume the major point of the discussion was around not adding the 3rd party library to pip-requires, where a particular driver is the only code that needs it?17:10
DuncanTI'm going to have to re-read the whole debate to be able to form a real opinion TBH17:10
DuncanTBut I suspect your worries are not unreasonable17:11
jgriffithDuncanT: Yeah, and there's some filtering of the other topics there17:11
jgriffithhemna: Yes, that's what I was thinking17:11
hemnaok17:11
jgriffithhemna: It doesn't seem unreasonable to me and maybe we'll change it later17:11
DuncanTShall we give people a chance to read the code & the comments made, digest and comment again next meeting?17:11
hemnaI guess it would be a moot point if there was a built in mechanism that allowed for deps for components to be pulled only when they are used.17:11
jgriffithDuncanT: indeed, very good point17:11
hemnabut that's probably asking too much17:11
jgriffith#proposal Folks check out the 3par review and lib and form an opinion on test-requires and pip-requires17:12
hemnaI don't think it's unreasonable to not install it by default, since in this particular case, only people that are going to use the driver need it.17:12
zykes-Soa! any FC status ? :)17:12
zykes-just dropping in !17:12
winston-dwill do17:13
jgriffithkmartin: ^^17:13
* zykes- guesses for hp legal :p17:13
jgriffithzykes-: I believe it's cleared17:13
kmartinzykes-: Cleared the HP legal hurdle, all clear to submit17:13
hemnajgriffith, fwiw in the review I don't think I added the pip-requires changes, but only the test-requires17:13
jgriffithhemna: :)17:13
jgriffith#topic next weeks meeting17:13
*** openstack changes topic to "next weeks meeting (Meeting topic: cinder)"17:13
jgriffithPlanning to skip, anybody have an objection?17:14
zykes-kmartin: got a few after the meeting ?17:14
jgriffithOr course anybody is welcome to chair in my absence17:14
kmartinzykes-: sure until another meeting I have to attend at 9:3017:14
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jgriffithOk... no meeting next week unless somebody voices an objection between now and then17:15
kmartinjgriffith: HP is shut down next week, so we will not be in the office17:15
* jgriffith misses shut-downs17:15
jgriffithalright... Have a great Christmas everyone17:16
kmartinjgriffith: you too17:16
jgriffithor other Holiday that you may choose to celebrate :)17:16
jgriffith#endmeeting17:16
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"17:16
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec 19 17:16:28 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:16
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-12-19-16.01.html17:16
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-12-19-16.01.txt17:16
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2012/cinder.2012-12-19-16.01.log.html17:16
johngarbutt#startmeeting xenapi17:16
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec 19 17:16:38 2012 UTC.  The chair is johngarbutt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:16
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:16
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: xenapi)"17:16
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'17:16
jgriffithjohngarbutt: sorry about that17:16
johngarbuttjgriffith: it happens, no worries, have a good christmas!17:17
johngarbutt#topic blueprints17:17
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: xenapi)"17:17
johngarbutthi all17:17
matelakathi17:17
mikalGreetings17:17
johngarbuttany blueprints to dicsuss, I think config drive17:17
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mikalYes, I'd love to talk about config drive17:17
johngarbuttmikal: hows it going, I think matelakat took a look at the code you pusshed17:17
matelakaty, I have 2 notes17:18
mikalI assume its mostly wrong...17:18
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matelakatI think it is fine17:18
matelakatSo the question 1: Is it important, that the filesystem's label is config-2?17:18
matelakat(I guess it is)17:18
mikalYes. cloud-init checks for that.17:18
zykes-johngarbutt: hey you :)17:18
johngarbuttit looked like what we were planning, from a quick look over the sholder17:19
mikalsmoser would be more definitive, but I'm pretty sure its important17:19
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johngarbuttthat sounds like what I heard too17:19
matelakatOkay, so I think the _generate_disk 's name-label won't be the filesystem's label.17:19
matelakatname-label is a sort of name for the vdi.17:19
smoserconfig-2 is imprtant, yes.17:20
mikalOh, I can see that17:20
matelakatso we need to modify _generate_disk, so that when it calls mkfs, it passes a label value (which should be a new argument I guess)17:20
mikalIt just needs to be passed to the mkfs call in _generate_disk. I can add that.17:20
johngarbuttsounds good17:20
matelakatAnd the other stuff is around the vm_utils modification.17:20
matelakatso the _generate_disk creates a vdi, and than creates a link to the instance, by creating a vbd.17:21
matelakatso after that call, your fresh vdi has a vbd.17:21
matelakatAnd in the next call, you will have another vbd, that connects the very same vdi to your compute node.17:22
smoserwhat matters is that from the guest there is a block device present that has an iso9660 filesystem on it with label config-2.17:22
matelakatokay, so we definitely need to make that labelling happen.17:22
johngarbuttah, so vfat no good?17:22
mikalsmoser: this version will be vfat17:22
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smoser(which is unfortunate, but should probably work)17:22
mikalvfat is supported by the code already, I understood there was complexity with ISO9660 for xen?17:22
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matelakatyes, I guess attaching isos is not as easy as the disks.17:23
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smoserjust for the record, you should attach disks!17:23
johngarbuttthere isn't a super easy way of adding an ISO without that being the only cd drive, from memory17:23
smoser*not* "isos"17:23
smoserthe disk should have content that happens to be a ISO9660 filesystem.17:23
matelakatokay, that could work, I guess.17:23
smoserjust like if you'd done : mkisofs /dev/vdb17:23
smoserthat doesn't turn my block device into a cdrom :)17:24
johngarbuttI guess that should work, its just a block device, I think, but would have to check17:24
johngarbuttright17:24
johngarbuttgood point17:24
mikalSo... Its actually harder to do that anyways.17:24
johngarbuttthere was a security issue around this before right?17:24
mikalAs best as I can see I'd have to create the iso9660 filesystem to one side and then dd it onto the vbd17:24
johngarbuttit would be good not to add that back17:24
matelakatmikal, and what do you think about using the existing config-drive code segments for the filesystem generation?17:25
mikalWhereas with vfat I can just mount the new vbd and do the thing17:25
mikalOk, so I think we now have three questions in flight and my brain is full17:25
johngarbuttmikal: dd was what we were talking about doing at one point, not very graceful I know17:25
mikalLet's stick with the fs format for a sec...17:25
matelakatok.17:25
mikalsmoser: I thought configdrive supported vfat? Its certainly an option in the code. Will cloud-init get angry with a vfat config drive?17:26
mikalsmoser: if it wont work, we should remove it from the code17:26
smoserthe code probably supports writing vfat, but i'd really like to not do that if possible.17:26
smosercloud-init will probably find it.17:26
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smoserbut potentially using vfat just complicates a guest17:26
mikalsmoser: yeah, the code _definitely_ is willing to write vfat17:26
mikalsmoser: I don't know if anyone actually does it though17:27
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matelakatbtw, do we have any tests that would show how to use configdrive?17:27
mikalsmoser: I think it was for backwards compatability17:27
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smoseri really dont believe that xen can possibly be silly enough to inspect the content of a thing it is about to attach and say "oh, that has an ISO9660 filesystem on it, I will attach it as a cdrom"17:27
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johngarbuttsmoser: agreed17:27
smoserif it was, and i booted a system with 2 block devies, and then, from the guest did 'mkisofs /dev/vdb' would a reboot magically make it read-only ?17:27
smoserto xen, this is just data on a disk.17:28
johngarbuttagreed, I was thinking about getting an ISO file read by XenServer17:28
johngarbuttif we make a disk contain an ISO, as you say, that should be fine17:28
mikalsmoser: hmmm. The code as released in folsom let's users use a flag (config_drive_format) to request vfat17:29
mikalSo I think we'd have to have a more public discussion if we wanted to drop that17:29
smosermikal, thats fine. i'm not saying rip it out. i'm saying don't proliferate it, or make it the default on a hypervisor.17:29
mikalsmoser: ok17:29
smosermake the working expectation be that it is iso9660 always.17:29
matelakatSo, back to the code?17:30
mikalAlright. I will rearrange the code to do an iso9660, which may or may not require some horrible dd hackery17:30
mikalYep, so next I think was the vbd thing.17:30
mikalI just saw your review comments. I haven't read them yet.17:30
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mikalI assume that's just a case of some refactoring?17:30
matelakatyes.17:30
mikalOk, I'm not too worried about that one then17:30
mikalWhat was the third thign again/17:31
mikal?17:31
matelakatI had two, the label, and the vbd stuff.17:31
mikalOh, code reuse for generation17:31
mikalI think its a really good idea to keep as much of the logic in virt/configdrive.py as possible17:31
mikalThat way you get updates for free17:31
johngarbutt+117:31
matelakat+117:31
johngarbuttcool, that is looking good17:31
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mikalA few other quick things -- your file injection didn't support admin passwords. Config drive does. Should config drive in xen set admin passwords?17:32
matelakatSO basically, that would mean, that we won't ask _generate_disk to create the fs.17:32
johngarbutt#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/xenapi-config-drive17:32
mikalmatelakat: correct17:32
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mikalmatelakat: well, it will create an FS in a temp file, and then copy it across to the block device17:32
matelakatmikal: y17:32
matelakatmikal: you mean dd, right?17:33
mikalmatelakat: yep17:33
matelakatSo, let's pick up this admin passwords.17:33
johngarbuttone sec, what is the question about password injection?17:33
johngarbuttxen does that using the agent at the moment17:33
matelakat:-)17:33
mikalconfigdrive wants to inject passwords onto the config disk17:33
johngarbuttI think that is fine17:34
mikalWell, I don't understand the agents very well17:34
mikalIs there an agent if you're using config drive?17:34
matelakatwe added some flags, so agent is optional17:34
matelakatlet me look for the changeset.17:34
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johngarbuttI think we turn off the agent for config drive17:34
johngarbuttat this stage anyway17:34
mikalSo therefore we _have_ to have the admin password in the config drive, yeah?17:34
johngarbuttwe can look at if there are things it wasn't to do later17:34
johngarbuttmikal: I guess17:34
mikalCool17:35
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matelakat#link https://review.openstack.org/1521217:35
johngarbuttwe could look at doing later: agenet does later password changes17:35
mikalYeah, I had a question about that for smoser17:35
johngarbutthang on now in english...17:35
mikalsmoser: does cloud-init only run at boot? How are password changes later done?17:36
johngarbuttthe agent can currently use xenstore to do to way communication, so it can reset the password later, there was talk of adding something like a place to post an encrypted password and a place to poll an see if a password reset is required17:36
smosermikal, tcp, puppet, any other daemon.17:37
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mikalsmoser: ok, so cloud-init is boot only and then you have to be an adult? That's cool because there's no attempt to update the configdrive with new data later, which would be ... complicated17:37
johngarbuttits more for windows, for users just doing things the old way, they need some other way, so maybe it is a little bit agecase17:37
matelakatmikal: xenapi_disable_agent config option could be used to turn off the agent.17:37
johngarbuttOK, so any other configdrive things?17:38
mikalmatelakat: cool. I haven't got as far as actually running this code yet. I need to build a test environment first.17:38
mikalNo, I think that's it from me. Sorry for taking so much time.17:38
johngarbuttmikal: devstack works well for that, not sure what you guys use internally17:38
matelakatjohngarbutt: done17:38
johngarbuttnot tried it, but you should be able to run XenServer inside virtual box, and run devstack on the virtual box VM17:39
johngarbuttno problem, it was good to chat about that17:39
mikaljohngarbutt: that's my plan, but I only downloaded xenserver yesterday17:39
johngarbuttcool17:39
johngarbuttany other blueprint?17:40
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johngarbuttanyone got news on the idempotent action stuff?17:40
zykes-johngarbutt: speaking of blueprints: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/fibre-channel-block-storage17:41
johngarbuttpvo: were your guys going to look at OVS support?17:41
johngarbuttinteresting17:41
johngarbuttzykes: i see the plans are KVM only at the mo17:41
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johngarbuttzykes: I think there is a new SR being added to help with HBA support to attach to random LUNs, so that might allow XenServer to work with these things17:42
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zykes-johngarbutt: eta?17:43
johngarbuttzykes: no idea right now, let me find out, there may be something on the public XCP repos somewhere17:43
johngarbuttany more blueprint stuff, before we move to docs?17:44
zykes-ovs what btw ?17:44
johngarbuttOpen vSwitch17:44
johngarbutt#topic docs17:44
*** openstack changes topic to "docs (Meeting topic: xenapi)"17:44
johngarbuttanyone with any specific docs issues today?17:44
matelakatThe only issue, I guess, that I need to document the XenAPINFS stuff.17:45
zykes-johngarbutt: yeh, but for what :)17:45
johngarbuttdocs relating to XenServer and XenAPI support17:45
zykes-sorry for bothering, but ovs + <what>?17:45
johngarbutt#action matelakat to document XenAPI NFS17:45
johngarbuttzykes: OVS + XenServer + Quantum17:46
johngarbutt#topic bugs17:46
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: xenapi)"17:46
johngarbuttany killer bugs people want to discuss, preferable XenServer related ones17:46
matelakatWe had some floating-ip issues this week, see the fix here:17:46
matelakat#link https://review.openstack.org/1833717:47
johngarbuttright, with nova-network HA flatdhcp17:47
matelakatmultihost17:47
johngarbuttsorry yes, that is what I meant with HA17:47
matelakaty17:47
matelakatAnd the resize stuff17:47
matelakatwe ran tempest tests, and the flavor was smaller than the image, and the shrink operation failed.17:48
johngarbutt#action makelakat to raise a resize bug17:48
matelakatBut I haven't raised a bug.17:48
matelakaty.17:48
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johngarbuttOK, so any more?17:48
johngarbutt#topic QA17:49
*** openstack changes topic to "QA (Meeting topic: xenapi)"17:49
johngarbuttnot heard from rackspace QA team yet17:49
matelakatsome random failures while running 12.04 guest on volume operations.17:49
matelakatmostly timeout17:49
johngarbuttthere was hope to start co-ordinating efforts17:49
johngarbuttas mentioned in folsom release notes right?17:49
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johngarbuttOK, moving on if nothing else...17:50
johngarbutt#topic AOB17:50
*** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: xenapi)"17:50
johngarbuttAny more for any more?17:50
matelakatpass17:50
zykes-uhm, johngarbutt doesn't it have ovs support already ?17:51
johngarbuttXenServer has OVS support, Quantum has OVS support, but the two don't play well together17:51
johngarbuttthere are two patches pending to fix that17:51
johngarbuttfrom internap17:51
johngarbutt#topic date of next meeting17:52
*** openstack changes topic to "date of next meeting (Meeting topic: xenapi)"17:52
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johngarbuttnext week is Christmas!17:52
johngarbuttI vote we skip next week, and chat again the following week?17:52
matelakatWhat 's the date exactly?17:52
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johngarbuttJan 2nd17:52
johngarbuttsounds like that is everything17:53
johngarbuttthanks all!17:53
matelakathmm, I don't expect too much activity, but let's go for it.17:53
johngarbutt#endmeeting17:53
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"17:53
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec 19 17:53:28 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:53
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2012/xenapi.2012-12-19-17.16.html17:53
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2012/xenapi.2012-12-19-17.16.txt17:53
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2012/xenapi.2012-12-19-17.16.log.html17:53
matelakat\quit17:53
zykes-ok17:53
pvojohngarbutt: sorry had a conflict today and on my way to my next round of conflicts. Will find you this afternoon.17:54
johngarbuttpvo: sorry, I am about to head off, but feel free to drop me a mail17:54
johngarbuttpvo: I have a mate's brass band christmas concert to help out on tuba!17:54
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zykes-hey hello17:56
KiallHeya..17:56
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Kiall#startmeeting DNSaaS17:59
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec 19 17:59:30 2012 UTC.  The chair is Kiall. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:59
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:59
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: DNSaaS)"17:59
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'dnsaas'17:59
KiallOkay.. Hiya!17:59
KiallAgenda: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/DNSaaS17:59
zykes-only me and you here or ?18:00
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* andrewbogott is lurking :)18:00
KiallCaptTofu's around, JC is away (but I've got some input from him via email)18:00
Kialland simon is about.. but not sure he's realized it's in here just yet ;)18:00
zykes-:p18:00
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KiallSo - Obviously, last weeks meeting never happened. I was with HP in Seattle for the week, and the TZ difference screwed me over!18:01
CaptTofugreets18:01
KiallApologies!18:01
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CaptTofuI forgive you :)18:01
CaptTofuit's all my fault.18:01
zykes-hah :p18:02
KiallCaptTofu, you should have remembered :P18:02
CaptTofuit was the doughnuts18:02
zykes-haha18:02
KiallYea - lets blame the doughnuts... moving on :)18:02
KiallSo the agenda has 2 items on it today..18:02
KiallFirst up...18:03
Kiall#topic Why I haven't released a (kinda) g1 yet18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Why I haven't released a (kinda) g1 yet (Meeting topic: DNSaaS)"18:03
zykes-still not out ?18:03
zykes-slowy!18:03
KiallSo - I've discovered that we don't quite have all the necessary pieces in place to do a release!18:03
Kiall#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/17756/18:03
KiallWithout this (or something similar) we're left without the ability to release18:04
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simonmcchehe18:04
KiallSo.. I've literally just had a chat with mordred / jeblair about this..18:05
Kialland it boiled down to:18:05
Kiall<jeblair> Kiall: i think mordred is running behind, but the general idea was maybe we should prototype with moniker how we want to do releases and tarballs for all the core projects18:05
Kiall<jeblair> Kiall: mordred's going to write up a plan on his plane flight, so maybe we'll have details then.18:05
CaptTofudrivers == agent, correct?18:05
KiallNo - thats a launchpad group name18:05
CaptTofuah.18:05
KiallBasically - people with permission to hit the big red button ;)18:05
CaptTofuok.18:05
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KiallSo .. I'm happy to hold odd and work with jeblair / mordred to get a better system in place for everyone.. Assuming it's sometime soon! I'll find out more when I can18:06
Kiallhold off*18:06
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KiallAny questions? :)18:07
KiallGuess not...18:08
Kiall#topic Reverse DNS18:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Reverse DNS (Meeting topic: DNSaaS)"18:08
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Kiall#link http://docs.rackspace.com/cdns/api/v1.0/cdns-devguide/content/ReverseDNS-123456999.html18:08
zykes-yeh18:08
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KiallSo - We have 2 decisions to make re reverse DNS..18:08
zykes-question, do we do with handlers for reverse like with forward records, create A + PTR ?18:09
Kiall1) Should we limit reverse DNS records to pre-defined range(s) of IPs, or allow people to create PTR's for any IP space they wish18:09
Kiall2) If the answer to #1 is pre-defined only, what should the API look like? i.e. should the PTR be record be tied to the resource it's actually allocated to.18:10
KiallI had a quick chat with jcmartin last night about this, and I believe he's in favour of a restricted set of ranges, and following the RS API (linked above)18:10
KiallI'm personally in favour of restricting the PTR's to pre-defined ranges, and something kinda similar to the RS API18:11
Kiallthoughts?18:11
Kiallzykes-, sorry - missed that message18:12
zykes-maybe quantum subnet data comes in here or ?18:12
Kiallyes - we should, be defaulting records to a sane value as we get notifications from quantum/nova-network18:12
KiallBut the end user should be able to change that default if they wish18:12
zykes-:)18:13
KiallI'm in favour of allowing that access via something like http://moniker.api.bla.com/rdns/compute/InstanceUUID18:14
zykes-how does RS dns stuff look for this?18:14
Kiallwhich is similar to, but not exactly the same as the RS API. (I'm still trying to figure out exactly why they use a full URI rather than just the UUID)18:14
Kiallhttp://docs.rackspace.com/cdns/api/v1.0/cdns-devguide/content/ReverseDNS-123456999.html18:14
KiallThe RS API looks like this http://moniker.api.bla.com/rdns/compute/http://nova.api.bla.com/servers/$InstanceUUID18:15
Kiall(with some urlencoding thrown in)18:15
zykes-hmmm18:15
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KiallThe end result is something like this: http://dns.api.bla.com/rdns/compute/http%3A%2F%2Fcompute.api.bla.com%2Fservers%2F$InstanceUUID18:16
zykes-why is the service passed in ?18:16
andrewbogottWhy is it useful to restrict the range?  It's just the difference between getting invald vs. not found for a given query, right?18:16
zykes-as in the service api18:16
zykes-ehm, service url18:16
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Kiallandrewbogott, yes/no.. we can't allow any random user to create a PTR for 1.2.3.4, since that could be allocated to another tenant18:17
zykes-a thing can be if you restrict having duplicate PTR's that if someone goes duplicate ip's you're screwed18:17
andrewbogottOh, you're talking about creating not querying of courseā€¦ nm, dumb question.18:17
Kiallandrewbogott, yea.. this is from the REST API point of view18:17
Kiallso - the service-url thing bugs me because it's ugly :)18:18
zykes-it is indeed18:18
KiallI'm still trying to understand exactly why they chose this route18:18
zykes-and do you really need to do like /compute ?18:18
zykes-Kiall: shouldn't we restrict creation of ptr's to existing ip's in say quantum / some other source?18:19
KiallI understand that part - it allows us to pick the appropriate python-*client to make a call with18:19
Kiallzykes-, yea.. so an end user can only create a PTR record if they have the IP allocated to one of their instances/load balancers/databases/etc18:19
zykes-yeh18:20
KiallSo.. Can anyone see a reason why RS chose to use a full URL, rather than simply the UUID?18:20
zykes-noop18:21
KiallHumm - Actually, I think I just realized why.18:21
KiallWhat if you have multiple compute regions?18:21
KiallThe compute/LB/etc API endpoint would be different18:21
zykes-hmm18:22
zykes-and ?18:22
zykes-isn't DNS / Keystone global ?18:22
KiallDNS, being the odd one out when it comes to multi-region stuff, won't just be dealing with in-region resources18:22
KiallSo - with the keystone catalog, we can from a service type and region name, obtain the URL18:23
zykes-yeah18:24
KiallMaybe we use http://moniker.api.bla.com/rdns/compute/RegionOne/$InstanceUUID18:24
Kiall(or something similar)18:24
zykes-how does the Nova url's look like ?18:24
zykes-do they use instance regions in the url ?18:24
KiallNo, regions are entirely separate stand alone installs with a shared keystone (and moniker)18:25
zykes- yeh18:25
KiallSo http://RegionOne/servers and http://RegionTwo/servers will return different results..18:25
zykes-can't we just put the service + region within the json ?18:25
KiallMaybe for create and update requests, but fetch requests (i.e. a HTTP GET) don't have a entity-body, so no JSON.18:26
zykes-k18:26
KiallI'm inclined to go with something like this18:27
Kiallhttp://moniker.api.bla.com/rdns/RegionOne/compute/$InstanceUUID18:27
Kiallhttp://moniker.api.bla.com/rdns/RegionOne/loadbalancer/$BalancerUUID18:27
Kialletc18:27
zykes-myeh18:28
Kiallwas that a "meh" or "yeh" ;)18:28
zykes-but should service vs region be in which order?18:28
KiallI think I prefer region first18:28
zykes-what does other projects use ?18:29
zykes-let's try not to differ too much from others...18:29
KiallNone of the other projects need to handle another projects resources over multiple regions18:29
Kialli.e. this is a first18:30
zykes-quantum ?18:30
KiallI'd need to double check since I don't use it.. But quantum would live inside a region and not handle other regions18:31
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KiallThe only cross-region project right now is keystone18:31
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zykes-yeah, but KS doesn't really care I think for things that is "in" the resource except the svc catalog18:32
KiallExactly - and it has no need to know about servers etc, so it doesn't provide a precedent for how this should be handled18:32
zykes-sorry if i'm a bit "back and forth"18:33
zykes-working on Pulp atn :)18:33
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Kiallso, there is no precedence to follow :/18:33
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zykes-guess we'll be a first :)18:33
KiallAssuming nobody shouts at me for it, I think http://moniker.api.bla.com/rdns/RegionOne/compute/$InstanceUUID will work and not be totally hideous18:34
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KiallOkay.. No shouts..18:34
Kiall#action kiall to implement RDNS over the holidays using "http://moniker.api.bla.com/rdns/RegionOne/compute/$InstanceUUID" as the API endpoint18:35
Kiall#topic Open discussion18:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: DNSaaS)"18:35
KiallSo .. zykes- did you see this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18377/18:35
zykes-yeh, was planning on doing it post christmas18:36
Kialli.e. don't do any work on the rootwrap ticket you assigned to yourself until that lands :)18:36
zykes-;)18:37
zykes-I am working too many angles for openstack alone :p18:37
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KiallOkay - So unless anyone else has anything, we'll call it and day and pick this up in 2 weeks after the break?18:37
zykes-:)18:38
zykes-yeh18:38
Kiall (I know CaptTofu and simonmcc are in another meeting right now, so probably have Q's but haven't had time to read the logs ;))18:38
CaptTofusorry!18:39
KiallOkay .. Next meeting is the 2nd of January 18:00 UTC :)18:39
Kiall2nd?18:39
Kialljasus.18:39
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zykes-i say 3 weeks18:39
zykes-rather :p18:39
Kiallcan I take that statement back!18:39
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KiallOkay.. Let's say 3 weeks, or the 9th of Jan. and I'm sure we'll have something impromptu in #openstack-dns between now and then18:40
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Kiall#endmeeting18:41
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"18:41
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec 19 18:41:13 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:41
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/dnsaas/2012/dnsaas.2012-12-19-17.59.html18:41
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/dnsaas/2012/dnsaas.2012-12-19-17.59.txt18:41
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/dnsaas/2012/dnsaas.2012-12-19-17.59.log.html18:41
KiallThanks :)18:41
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asalkeld#startmeeting heat19:58
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec 19 19:58:46 2012 UTC.  The chair is asalkeld. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:58
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:58
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"19:58
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'19:58
asalkeldrollcall19:59
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asalkeld#chair asalkeld zaneb shardy19:59
openstackCurrent chairs: asalkeld shardy zaneb19:59
asalkeldhi zaneb, rollcall?19:59
zanebo/19:59
shardyshardy here19:59
asalkeldstevebake20:00
jpeelerjpeeler here20:00
asalkeld#chair asalkeld zaneb shardy jpeeler stevebake20:00
openstackCurrent chairs: asalkeld jpeeler shardy stevebake zaneb20:00
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asalkeldwell lets review last weeks actions:20:00
asalkeld#topic review last weeks actions:20:01
*** openstack changes topic to "review last weeks actions: (Meeting topic: heat)"20:01
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asalkeldasalkeld really kill heat-api/python-heatclient repo this time20:01
asalkeldso I just did that20:01
asalkeldstevebake look at make the gettingStart easier to understand20:01
asalkeldstevebake make a docs bug to convert wiki into openstack consumable docs strings20:01
asalkeldsteve has done/is doing that20:02
asalkeldstart an email discussion on where to keep cfn-tools for easy install20:02
asalkeldwell that didn't happen20:02
asalkeldis that a problem?20:02
zanebdon't think it's urgent20:03
asalkeldcool20:03
asalkeldright open discussion20:03
zanebbut you can add it as an action item for me if you want20:03
asalkeld#action zaneb start an email discussion on where to keep cfn-tools for easy install20:04
shardyRe the getting started, what do people thing about moving to packstack (and deprectating tools/openstack) for Fedora?20:04
shardys/thing/think20:04
asalkeldsure, if it works on fedora20:05
shardyit does take longer to run but it's otherwise pretty nice20:05
shardyit's packaged for F17 AFAIK20:05
zaneb+1 but we need to have RPM packaging sorted before we do that20:05
asalkeld#topic Open discussion20:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)"20:05
shardyOk, well maybe we can move towards that for F18+ then20:06
shardyDid anyone see or have any comments about my moving us to the newest pep8?20:06
zanebmakes sense, I think all projects are going to have to, right?20:07
shardyif/when the tox.ini gets merged, I guess we'll all need to pip install the latest pep8 locally20:07
zanebI've only had time to review one of those patches so far though20:07
shardyzaneb: Yeah, I noticed we were behind the core projects pep version so just decided to hack on it this afternoon20:08
shardyYeah, sorry they are a bit big20:08
asalkeldI think there is some thoughts about moving to a single pep version20:08
zanebit's a pain that fedora hasn't packaged the latest though :/20:08
zanebmaybe we need to take on that job20:08
asalkeldzaneb, it's a bit of a moving target20:09
shardyYeah, I actually noticed because I easy_installed it on rhel and got a gadzillion pep errors ;D20:09
zanebtrue :(20:09
zanebIMO they have gone way overboard, but what can you do20:10
asalkeldyip20:10
asalkeldanything else to discuss? I am too sleepy to think straight20:11
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asalkeld_super_ short meeting ;)20:11
shardyskip next weeks meeting because of the holidays?20:11
asalkeldyip20:11
asalkeld#endmeeting20:11
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"20:11
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec 19 20:11:39 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:11
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2012/heat.2012-12-19-19.58.html20:11
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2012/heat.2012-12-19-19.58.txt20:11
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2012/heat.2012-12-19-19.58.log.html20:11
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shardylol, that must be some kind of record :)20:11
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nijaba#startmeeting Ceilometer21:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec 19 21:00:05 2012 UTC.  The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:00
nijaba#meetingtopic Ceilometer21:00
nijaba#chair nijaba21:00
nijaba#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/MeteringAgenda21:00
nijabaATTENTION: please keep discussion focussed on topic until we reach the open discussion topic21:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:00
openstackCurrent chairs: nijaba21:00
nijabaHello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting?21:00
nijabao/21:00
asalkeldhi21:00
yjiang5o/21:00
danspragginshello world21:00
APMelton12o/21:00
jd__o/21:00
eglynno/21:00
nijabanice!21:00
nijabalet's start21:01
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nijaba#topic actions from previous meeting21:01
nijaba#topic asalkeld prepare a blueprint for v2 api "tightening" changes21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "asalkeld prepare a blueprint for v2 api "tightening" changes (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:01
asalkeldhttp://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/blueprints/APIv221:01
sewme too21:01
* nijaba looks21:01
asalkeldI haven't made a blueprint as there are so many about21:01
asalkeldwsme v2 one21:02
asalkeldbut I can21:02
asalkeldalso dependant on the pass array args21:02
nijabaasalkeld: I think we can link it to an existing bp21:02
nijabaasalkeld: I can take the action if you want21:02
nijabalooks great otherwise21:02
asalkeldok21:02
jd__asalkeld: is there a point to having /resources since that seems to be just /meter with ?resources= ?21:02
asalkeldnot sure21:03
jd__ok21:03
asalkeldhttps://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/python-wsme/gUJH9rLo5RI21:03
nijabaI guess we could have a full review about this next week21:03
nijabaonce doug is back and everyone has time to review?21:03
asalkeldsure21:03
jd__fine with me21:04
asalkeldso I am trying to implement, but running into wsme sort commings21:04
nijaba#action nijaba to schedule v2 review for next meeting21:04
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nijaba#action nijaba to link proposal to appropriate bp21:04
nijaba#topic dhellmann experiment with passing arrays of parameters to wsme for queries21:04
nijaba#info dhellmann is still traveling, so I am re-actioning this for next week21:04
nijaba#action dhellmann experiment with passing arrays of parameters to wsme for queries21:04
*** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann experiment with passing arrays of parameters to wsme for queries (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:04
nijaba#topic eglynn reach out to healthnmon project21:05
nijaba#info This was obsoleted later in the meeting last week21:05
*** openstack changes topic to "eglynn reach out to healthnmon project (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:05
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eglynndidn't get a chance to do anything with healthnmon this week21:05
eglynnneed to bump that to the next meeting21:05
nijaba#topic eglynn, yjiang5, llu-laptop to work on a wiki page for analysis of healthmon duplication, etc..21:05
nijaba#info this was done, there is a full topic about this in a bit21:05
nijaba#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/CeilometerAndHealthnmon21:05
*** openstack changes topic to "eglynn, yjiang5, llu-laptop to work on a wiki page for analysis of healthmon duplication, etc.. (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:05
nijabaso I propose we discuss lianho write up later21:05
asalkeldthat was nice21:05
eglynnyep, some interesting observations on that wiki page21:05
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nijaba#topic jd ask eglynn if https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/nova-independent-virt is implemented21:06
*** openstack changes topic to "jd ask eglynn if https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/nova-independent-virt is implemented (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:06
eglynnit is21:06
eglynnfor libvirt21:06
eglynnbut if anyone is interested in xenapi support21:06
nijabashould I change the status then?21:06
eglynnthat would be good too21:06
eglynnyep, status complete21:06
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eglynn(xenapi is an added extra...)21:07
nijaba#info bp marked as implemented21:07
nijabathanks eglynn21:07
nijaba#topic russellb raises the question about Oslo notifications versionning on the ml21:07
eglynnnp!21:07
*** openstack changes topic to "russellb raises the question about Oslo notifications versionning on the ml (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:07
russellbooh21:08
nijabaI think this was actually proposed as a patch21:08
russellbi did not do that.  i wrote a patch instead21:08
russellbyes21:08
nijabawhich I have reviewed21:08
* nijaba looks for link21:08
russellb#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18057/21:08
nijaba#link https://review.openstack.org/1805721:08
nijabaduh!21:09
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russellb#undo21:09
nijabaeheh21:09
nijabaother reviews are welcome, I guess21:09
russellbso to clarify, this isn't versioning of notificaitons themselves21:09
russellbjust the wrapper part that will eventually allow us to add things like signatures21:10
russellbencryption, other metadata21:10
nijabaright21:10
nijabaa usefull step!21:10
russellb:)21:10
russellbthanks for reviewing!21:10
nijabanp21:10
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eglynnwhat's the upgrade path to the new format?21:10
eglynni.e. is it a big bang, or can the old envelope-less format still be tolerated by consumers?21:11
nijabarussellb: ?21:12
eglynnjust wondering about ceilo remaining compatible-ish with pre-Folsom nova21:12
russellbas it stands, the envelope is optional and not used by default21:12
eglynnk21:12
russellband the code supports receiving both formats21:12
eglynncool21:13
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russellbchecks to see if it looks like an envelope, and if it doesn't, assumes it didn't have one21:13
nijabanice21:13
eglynngreat, sounds reasonable21:13
russellbthe details of that are in the patch in front of the one linked21:13
nijabaany other comments, or shall we move on?21:14
russellbdeserialize_msg() in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/17554/7/openstack/common/rpc/common.py21:14
russellbnone from me21:14
eglynnlooks good21:14
nijaba#topic need to find a volunteer to organize bug squashing day on Jan 4th21:15
nijabaagain, I won't be around that week and we need volunteers to organize it.  Do we have any?21:15
*** openstack changes topic to "need to find a volunteer to organize bug squashing day on Jan 4th (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:15
jd__o/21:15
eglynnwe'll also need to divy out some triaging work21:16
eglynnstart tagging bugs as low-hanging fruit etc.21:16
nijabajd__: can you take care of the organization?  I guess we should start "advertising it" soon...21:16
nijabaeglynn: good point21:16
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jd__nijaba: sure, do you have already some idea of what we could do?21:16
jd__I can announce it this week on the ml at least21:16
eglynn(if we're gonna use the bug squashing day to smoke out some new contributors, good to have a nice set of getting starting style bugs ...)21:17
nijaba#info everyin21:17
nijaba#info everyone should start triaging and tagging bugs21:17
jd__eglynn: I can probably do some of that the day before, but help welcome :)21:17
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eglynnjd__: cool21:17
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nijabajd__: I think we need to have a process to help people that are willing to do some work21:18
nijabathis could be:21:18
nijaba- bug fixing21:18
nijaba- testing21:18
eglynn- docco21:18
nijaba- bug reproduction21:18
jd__ok, maybe writing this on a wiki page could help?21:19
nijabaand we need to organize presence in the IRC chan to help directing people21:19
nijabaso find volunteers to greet people throughout the day21:19
nijabawhich should be easy, since we have people all around the world21:19
eglynnfor testing, a detailed step-by-step wiki like the Fedora openstack test day, would be good to guide newbies ...21:20
nijabaeglynn: pointer?21:20
eglynn#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2012-09-18_OpenStack21:20
nijabagreat21:20
jd__I'll write as much as I could for next week so we can discuss it on next meeting21:20
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jd__s/could/can/21:20
eglynncool21:20
yjiang5and need resolve the webob/wsme dependency issue before that day, so that trunk works well in devstack. (We should have fixed it at that time)21:20
nijabajd__: action?21:21
jd__yjiang5: agreed, we can discuss this at the end of this meeting btw21:21
nijabayjiang5: good point21:21
jd__nijaba: yup21:21
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jd__#action jd__ write a wiki page on how to participate to the bug squashing day21:21
* nijaba will gladly help21:21
jd__#action jd__ announce the bug squashing day on the ml21:21
eglynnyjiang5: yep, good point ... the initial experience has to be smooth-ish, otherwise we'll loose the newbies straight away21:22
nijabajd__: we may need to advertise wider than the dev ml21:22
nijabamay21:22
jd__nijaba: do you have something on mind?21:22
jd__lkml? :p21:22
nijabamaybe on the openstack ml and community on?21:23
yjiang5jd__: that wiki page can be a good newbie document in the future.21:23
nijabas/on/one21:23
yjiang5lkml? .....21:23
nijabayjiang5: joke: linux kernel ml21:23
nijabamaybe some tweets and a blog too?21:23
jd__nijaba: yeah I was thinking about the general openstack list too, there's a community list or something too? I need to check that21:23
nijabajd__: yes, there is one. I'll relay if you want21:24
jd__nijaba: yeah I'll tweet and blog like a crazy cow too!21:24
nijaba\o/21:24
jd__#action jd__ megatweet about the bug squashing day every hour21:24
nijabaok, should we move on?21:24
jd__#undo undo undo21:24
nijabahehe21:24
jd__:-)21:24
nijabaThat's it for last week action21:25
nijaba#topic Meetings during the holiday season21:25
nijabaSo we have a couple meetings coming up that are falling in the holliday season, so I am wondering if we should still hold them?21:25
nijabaI am proposing to do a quick check for presence in the form of a vote21:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Meetings during the holiday season (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:25
nijabado you guys agree?21:25
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jd__should we vote on agreeing?21:25
* jd__ agrees :-)21:25
nijabalol21:25
nijaba#startvote present on thu dec 27 15UTC? yes, no21:26
openstackBegin voting on: present on thu dec 27 15UTC? Valid vote options are yes, no.21:26
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.21:26
eglynnyep agreed not for next week, we're in shutdown mode ;)21:26
nijaba#vote yes21:26
jd__#yes21:26
yjiang5#vote yes21:26
jd__#vote yes21:26
eglynn#vote yes21:26
asalkeld#vote yes21:26
nijabalooks like most of us are avail on the 27th! great21:27
nijabawaiting a bit for more votes21:27
eglynn#vote no21:27
* eglynn got confused as to what we were voting on21:27
jd__eglynn just took vacation actually21:27
nijabaI guess we are done for this one21:27
nijaba#endvote21:28
openstackVoted on "present on thu dec 27 15UTC?" Results are21:28
openstackyes (4): yjiang5, nijaba, asalkeld, jd__21:28
openstackno (1): eglynn21:28
jd__nijaba: I think Doug will be there since he just got vacations21:28
nijaba#agreed meeting next week maintained21:28
eglynnfair enough, I'll try to make it21:28
nijaba#startvote present on wed Jan 2 21UTC? yes, no21:28
openstackBegin voting on: present on wed Jan 2 21UTC? Valid vote options are yes, no.21:28
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.21:28
nijaba#vote no21:28
jd__#vote yes21:28
yjiang5#vote no21:28
eglynn#vote yes21:28
asalkeld#vote no21:29
nijabathis one lokks like a looser21:29
nijabaany more votes?21:29
nijaba#endvote21:30
openstackVoted on "present on wed Jan 2 21UTC?" Results are21:30
openstackyes (2): jd__, eglynn21:30
openstackno (3): yjiang5, nijaba, asalkeld21:30
jd__it's a date then!21:30
nijaba#agreed no meeting on jan 2, unless jd and eglynn want to have fun together21:30
jd__yeah, dhellmann might be around too21:30
jd__we'll do a counter-party without you guys, that's it :)21:31
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nijabagood point21:31
yjiang5jd__: but that's the day before the bug squash day, possibly someone from community want to join?21:31
nijabaso we'll check again next week21:31
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nijaba#action nijaba to organize new vote next week21:31
jd__yjiang5: yeah, we'll see, we can just start the meeting, chat a bit and end it if it's calm and quiet21:32
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yjiang5jd__: k21:32
nijaba#topic Review synaps blueprints21:32
nijabaeglynn did a great job at braking this into multiple bluprints and dependencies21:32
nijaba#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/synaps-integration21:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Review synaps blueprints (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:32
nijabaThis brings a couple questions from me (others may have more):21:32
nijaba1/ this seems a lot of work.  Do you think we can target this for grizzly with confidence?21:32
nijaba2/ it seems that the symaps team is quite busy. Will you be covering all of this by yourself?21:32
eglynnyea a lot of stuff there ...21:32
eglynnand yep, I'm not counting on a great deal of input from their side21:33
yjiang5eglynn: wow21:33
eglynnso I've started working on it and will get as much done as I can21:33
eglynnwhen is the g3 date?21:33
asalkeld(heaps of distractions this time of year)21:34
nijabaso, how should we target this?  Mark them as approved but with no milestone until you complete them?21:34
nijabaeglynn: Feb 21st, I think21:34
nijabaverified21:34
eglynnright be aiming most of it for g3 so I think21:34
eglynng2 is way too soon given the holidays etc.21:34
nijabaand changes may be breaking compat with folsom too?21:35
eglynnwell, it'll depend on post-Folsom ceilo features21:35
eglynne.g. multi-publish, nova-virt-inspector etc.21:35
nijabaso, do everyone agree that I approve those bp?21:36
asalkeldsure21:36
yjiang5eglynn: we can priotize these bps21:36
eglynnyjiang5: cool21:36
yjiang5eglynn: some are fundamental, while some are add-ons21:36
asalkeldnijaba, there are a lot of overlapping bps atm21:36
nijaba#action nijaba to approve synaps's bp21:37
eglynnyjiang5: agreed21:37
nijabaasalkeld: I know21:37
nijabaasalkeld: should we have a bp cleanup session next week?21:37
asalkeldcould do21:37
yjiang5agree21:37
nijabayou won be around though.  maybe we can start together on thu (my morning)21:38
asalkeldok21:38
nijaba#action nijaba to organixe next thu as bp cleanup day21:39
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yjiang5thu means thursday, right?21:39
nijabalet's move on?21:39
nijabayjiang5: yes21:39
yjiang5nijaba: thanks21:39
nijaba#topic Discuss heathmon/ceilometer duplication and differences21:39
nijabalianhao did a great job at analysing the differences and duplication:21:39
nijaba#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/CeilometerAndHealthnmon21:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss heathmon/ceilometer duplication and differences (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:39
nijabaFrom what I read, it seems that the hard points are21:40
nijaba1/ very different approach on the data model21:40
nijaba2/ healthmon does not use standard openstack events21:40
nijabaso it seems that at best we could recommend to integrate healthmon with ceilometer through the use of the multi-publisher blueprint21:40
nijabawhat do you think?21:40
yjiang5nijaba: lianhao is not on the meeting, can we do it in next meeting?21:40
eglynnwas their host monitoring something we could consider pulling in?21:40
nijabayjiang5: we can still gather some feedback and conclude next week21:40
yjiang5nijaba: sure21:40
nijabaasalkeld, won't be around next week21:41
asalkeldmaybe - I'll see21:41
nijaba#action nijaba to reschdule topic for next week when lianhao is around21:41
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nijabaany comments for now?21:42
yjiang5agree with eglyn on host monitoring21:42
asalkeldwell I'd like to see the devs on irc21:42
asalkeldand actively supporting this21:42
nijaba+121:42
asalkeldnot another case of us pulling code in21:42
eglynnyep agreed21:43
jd__+121:43
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eglynnwe could be guided though by their approach to host monitoring21:43
nijabaasalkeld: shall you start a thread on the ml, asking what they think?21:43
yjiang5eglynn: but host monitor is a feature we need support in future, either from healthnmon, or restart from scratch21:43
eglynnyjiang5: yep, just thinking we could borrow ideas that they've battle-tested21:44
asalkeldnijaba, maybe - or just get them to the meetings21:44
eglynnyjiang5: approaches they've proven to work at scale etc.21:44
nijabathere is already some effort on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/monitoring-physical-devices21:44
nijabaasalkeld: that could be the topic of the mail :)21:44
yjiang5eglynn: agreed21:44
asalkeldsure nijaba21:45
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nijabaok, I guess we can move on then...21:46
nijaba#topic Open discussion21:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:47
* dragondm waves21:47
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asalkeldI have nothing21:48
yjiang5one thing I discussed with asalkeld on IRC, current get_meters need looking for the whole table , possibly we need enhance that?21:48
asalkeldyou mean for sql?21:48
yjiang5asalkeld: yes.21:48
jd__I'd like to send a patch to move away the v2 api as a second citizen and get back the v1 API as the main one for now, and remove dep on pecan/wsme (unless for tests), wdyt?21:48
asalkeldyes totally agree yjiang521:49
yjiang5jd__: agree21:49
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asalkeldjd__, agree until we get to one api server21:49
eglynnjd__: second class citizen = disabled by default?21:49
nijaba+1 (for now and until g2 is past)21:49
yjiang5asalkeld: I will talk with you on implementation in IRC21:50
asalkeldmv ceilometer-api ceilometer-api-v221:50
jd__eglynn: that means rename bin/ceilometer-api => bin/ceilometer-api-v2 and rename bin/ceilometer-api-v1 => bin/ceilometer-api21:50
asalkeldmv ceilometer-api-v1 ceilometer-api21:50
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asalkeldyip21:50
eglynnjd__: got it, cool21:50
* jd__ high fives asalkeld 21:50
jd__I'll do that tomorrow then21:50
nijabaaction?21:51
yjiang5jd__: will this bring jenkins back?21:51
jd__#action jd__ rename api to api-v2 and api-v1 to api21:51
jd__yjiang5: Jenkins is already back, I sent a patch earlier today21:51
jd__I need to do a bunch of recheck on everything, but didn't have time to do this today21:51
nijabaand I fast track approved it21:51
jd__on my evil plan for tomorrow, before the world ends21:51
yjiang5jd__: thanks.21:52
asalkeldhaha21:52
yjiang5jd__: hehe21:52
nijabawe should meter that...21:52
jd__hehe21:52
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nijabaanything else?21:53
yjiang5jd__: BTW, please have a check on the multiple-publish patch when you are available, it has been changed21:53
dragondmFolks here @ rackspace planning to contribute more to Ceilometer. We would like to use it for some of our usage.21:53
jd__anyway pecan/wsme looks nice and the upstream author is helpful21:53
jd__yjiang5: yeah I see, I'll look tomorrow too! :)21:53
eglynnyjiang5: me too21:53
yjiang5jd__: eglynn: thanks21:54
eglynndragondm: great!21:54
nijabadragondm: yep.  I have been discussing this with sandy and dan21:54
jd__dragondm: do you have an idea of what you want to tackle first/21:54
dragondmWe have a list of things we'll need to run it at our scale in our infrastructure21:54
nijabadragondm: but I would like them to propose some concrete plan on the changes they think of21:54
nijabaso we can discuss it here first21:54
dragondmYes, We will break out our stuff into some blueprints.21:55
nijabacoolio21:55
danspragginsnijaba: definitely agree. sandywalsh is not available for this meeting and holidays mean we'll probably need to wait until first of year.21:55
dragondmPlus, we would like to bring in some of the features of our stacktach too.21:55
dragondmer tool.21:55
danspragginswe're certainly interested in working with the ceilometer group though.21:55
nijabaall goodness to me. but needs to be planned carefully against the dealines of the project21:56
dragondmYah, our stuff is going to be longer range.21:56
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dragondmWe're not going to drop it on you for g2 or such :->21:57
nijabadragondm: pfeww ;)21:57
dragondmWe are in the planning stage now, testing some ideas, etc.21:58
nijabawith synaps, healthmon and multi-publisher, we already have qui te a bit for g321:58
nijabaok, we are just at the top of the hour21:59
nijabaany last comments?22:00
jd__clear22:00
eglynnnothing from me ...22:00
yjiang5no22:00
asalkeldhappy holidays!22:00
nijabathanks a lot everyone, another great meeting22:00
eglynnyep, ditto!22:00
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danspragginsthanks for having us. we'll meet back up after the beginning of the year to discuss the rackspace stuff.22:00
dragondmYup.22:00
nijaba#action enjoy your hollidays22:00
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nijabadanspraggins: dragondm: happy to have you join22:01
nijaba#endmeeting22:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"22:01
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec 19 22:01:16 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2012/ceilometer.2012-12-19-21.00.html22:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2012/ceilometer.2012-12-19-21.00.txt22:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2012/ceilometer.2012-12-19-21.00.log.html22:01
dragondmYup. Sandywalsh and possibly 1 other dev will be joining too.22:01
nijaba\o/22:01
danspragginsit's going to be fun :)22:01
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danspragginsadios all.22:02
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