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| marouni | Hello, any recommendations for books to help start developing for quantum ? | 14:49 |
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| jgriffith | looks like a lot of foks are about already | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 24 16:00:07 2013 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| bswartz | hi | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | Hey everyone! Welcome back | 16:00 |
| dachary | \o | 16:00 |
| vincent_hou_ | hi | 16:00 |
| eharney | hi | 16:00 |
| *** rushiagr has joined #openstack-meeting | 16:00 | |
| jgriffith | thingee is on a train so may be a few minutes late | 16:00 |
| bswartz | yes I hope everyone had uneventful travel | 16:00 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 16:00 |
| kmartin | hello | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: indeed | 16:00 |
| rushiagr | hi! | 16:00 |
| vincent_hou_ | yesterday i had a good sleep | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou_: hehe | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | jet lag is tough | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | Ok... let's get rolling | 16:01 |
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| jgriffith | #topic blueprints | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:01 | |
| jgriffith | So we talked about a lot of things at the summit | 16:01 |
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| jgriffith | We need to get our thoughts/plans transferred in to blueprint form this week if we can | 16:02 |
| thingee | hello | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | thingee: hey... right on time | 16:02 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: and I said you were going to be late :( | 16:02 |
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| jgriffith | So I'm going to ask that everybody that had a topic they brought up to do a formal bp | 16:02 |
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| jgriffith | also, I'd like to do the BP's in chunks | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | in other words if you have a large thing like volume migration | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | break it down in to multiple dependent bp's | 16:03 |
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| dachary | ( avishay is on vacations for the next two weeks ) | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | dachary: I'm painfully aware | 16:03 |
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| bswartz | d'oh | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | anybody know how to turn off his damn auto-reply :) | 16:03 |
| dachary | ahah | 16:04 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: through his out of office replies? | 16:04 |
| rushiagr | :P | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: yes :) | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | He's spamming launchpad as well as me :) | 16:04 |
| bswartz | do any blueprints exist for any of the topics we discussed? | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: not really | 16:04 |
| * dachary write m. factor | 16:04 | |
| jgriffith | that's why I'm mentioning it | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | I'd like to get formal BP's together and start targetting them | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | and I don't want to do them all on my own :) | 16:05 |
| kmartin | bswartz: yes, we have entered a few | 16:05 |
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| bswartz | I think the migration stuff will depend on the volume attach stuff, so migration doesn't feel like a H1 thing -- I'd suggest H2 | 16:05 |
| thingee | yes may 30th is due for h1, and we got a lot of work to do | 16:05 |
| thingee | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 16:05 |
| kmartin | 38 in the current list | 16:05 |
| kmartin | bswartz: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | kmartin: thanks :) | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | some of those are going to drop as hold overs from last release | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | there's a number that I know folks have abandoned | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | anyway.... my point is that if you have an item from the summit that you were going to work on | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | make sure you update/create a bp and we'll get it targetted etc | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | The plan this time around is to try and get as much of that work done up front | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | Rather than just adding BP's every day as we go | 16:08 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: +1 | 16:08 |
| thingee | jgriffith: cut off date | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | and it will help with the folks that are coming along and saying "how can I help" | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | thingee: ideally next Tuesday | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | thingee: but that wouldn't be a *freeze* on bp's | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | That's just when we need to have a reasonable outline for what we're doing in H | 16:09 |
| thingee | excellent | 16:09 |
| kmartin | some of us have to get legal approval before posting the BPs, but we are working on it. :( | 16:09 |
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| rushiagr | jgriffith: H, or H1? | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: you can't even post it? | 16:10 |
| bswartz | kmartin: :-( | 16:10 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: nope | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | kmartin: what if you just let me know what you want to do and I'll post the BP for you | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | Then when you get approval we can assign it | 16:10 |
| bswartz | lol | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | would that solve the legal issues? | 16:10 |
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| kmartin | ok, add QoS support to the 3PAR drivers | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: hrmph | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | ok, that one might be a little tough for me to wing it in the BP | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | but at least maybe a place-holder | 16:11 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: let's try it | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: sounds good | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | I'm also not as concerned about driver updates/enhancements | 16:11 |
| * dachary proposes to act as a legal proxy too, if that helps ;-) | 16:11 | |
| jgriffith | I'm more interested in project wide changes | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | Does that make sense to everyone? | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | Or do folks disagree with that? | 16:12 |
| bswartz | Avishay did make a blueprint for his volume-migration topic: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/volume-migration | 16:12 |
| dachary | +1 | 16:12 |
| kmartin | agree..that's what I thought. We'll added the general one's already we'll ask for forgiveness later | 16:13 |
| thingee | jgriffith: +1 | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: yes, and that's a prime candidate for breaking into dependent chunks IMO | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: :) | 16:13 |
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| jgriffith | kmartin: lemme know how to help to keep things above board from the legal teams perspective | 16:13 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: are we committing that beyond h1 it would be unlikely accepting bps that involve project wide changes? | 16:13 |
| thingee | or h2? | 16:14 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: I don't know for sure yet... I'd be curious what others thought | 16:14 |
| kmartin | if we have feedback on some what's the process, reach out to the assignee or drafter? | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | Personally H1 would be fantastic | 16:14 |
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| jgriffith | and of course there would be an exception process | 16:14 |
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| bswartz | I think it's reasonable to require a blueprint in H1 for project-wide changes, even if the implementation isn't done until H2 -- I'm thinking of new features that depend on other new features | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | That wouldn't be "implemented" but at least planned | 16:14 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: +1 that's kinda the direction I'm leaning | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | thingee: does that sound good to you? | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: DuncanT everyone? | 16:15 |
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| DuncanT | Yup | 16:15 |
| thingee | jgriffith: yea | 16:15 |
| kmartin | sounds good we can always push to H2 | 16:15 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: yes | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: cool | 16:16 |
| eharney | seems reasonable | 16:16 |
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| jgriffith | alright, let's plan on that. Seems like folks are pretty good with the idea | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | So we're saying: | 16:16 |
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| jgriffith | major functional changes/enhancments to the core project are expected to have BP's by H1 | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | After that major changes to the core project will need to have some discussion/exception process | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | This does NOT mean the changes are implemented and in by H1, just that we have plans for them | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | Ideally the bulk of these will be in later this week, but we're sure to think of "new" things in the coming weeks | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | anything else on BluePrints/plans for H? | 16:18 |
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| jgriffith | Of course I'm speaking in general, not details of some of the items on our plate right now :) | 16:19 |
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| rushiagr | jgriffith: do we cover drivers also in this? e.g. a new vendor trying to get his driver in in H3? | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: so drivers I'm not as worried about having a BP for by next week | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: I would like us to have a seperate discussion on when we cut-off new drivers though | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: and the difference between a *new* driver and a refactored or modified existing driver | 16:20 |
| DuncanT | We were discussing having no driver interface changes after H2 as well... did that get agreed on in the end? | 16:20 |
| bswartz | I think driver should be allowed to go in any time before H3, as long as it's not the last week of H3 -- then you get beaten with a nerf bat | 16:20 |
| kmartin | on that topic, thingee mentioned that we should document https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder#Minimum_Driver_Features in a dev doc or something that is checked in | 16:21 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: sounds reasonable | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: My concern is that like last time | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: the third milestone becomes all drivers all the time | 16:22 |
| dachary | jgriffith: does it make sense to synchronize wih other components regarding this H1 deadline for project wide BP ? I'm thinking scheduling as an example because it involves at least nova & cinder, even for the case of local volumes. Or would this be handled as exceptions ? | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | dachary: the other projects are going to be shooting for the same time-lines regarding bp's and features | 16:23 |
| dachary | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/havana-cinder-local-storage-library | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | dachary: yes, and I've already started bp's for oslo and nova for this | 16:24 |
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| dachary | ok :-) | 16:24 |
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| jgriffith | still need the cinder version and prototyping some things to see how I really want to do this | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | ^^ cinder-version == bp | 16:24 |
| uvirtbot | jgriffith: Error: "^" is not a valid command. | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | whatevs uvirtbot | 16:24 |
| rushiagr | uvirtbot: haha! | 16:24 |
| uvirtbot | rushiagr: Error: "haha!" is not a valid command. | 16:25 |
| rushiagr | oops | 16:25 |
| rushiagr | :/ | 16:25 |
| hemna | heh | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | ha! | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: any opinions on this ? | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | not the virtbot discussion :) | 16:25 |
| guitarzan | I was curious what cinder version was referring to | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | a bp for cinder, :) | 16:25 |
| guitarzan | I think getting blueprints in early for big stuff makes a lot of sense | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | cool | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | alright, we have a plan | 16:26 |
| hemna | yup | 16:26 |
| hemna | like the state machine :P | 16:26 |
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| jgriffith | hemna: +100000 | 16:26 |
| guitarzan | indeed | 16:26 |
| DuncanT | Am I writing a bp for that or is somebody else? | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | #topic open discussion | 16:27 |
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| hemna | I'd like to talk about that today with you at some point | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I was going to, we can just see who gets to it first | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I was just going to have a simle BP like: "implement a state machine for Cinder" | 16:27 |
| hemna | I have a BP I wrote as a place holder for the state machine | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | hemna: right on | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | hemna: and yes, we can chat about that today | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | Unless you want to do it now while everybody is here | 16:28 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Fair enough. We've a meeting tomorrow to work out what we need to write up and who is going to do it... If you've already started I can always add to it | 16:28 |
| hemna | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/cinder-state-machine | 16:28 |
| hemna | fyi | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: sounds good | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | hemna: ha! | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | hemna: wins!! | 16:28 |
| hemna | :P | 16:28 |
| guitarzan | yeah, I noticed he'd already gotten that one in :) | 16:28 |
| * jgriffith has yet to go through the bp list :( | 16:29 | |
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| hemna | I spent 10 minutes yesterday googleing for python FSM's yesterday | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | alright... anybody have anything else? | 16:29 |
| kmartin | thingee mentioned at the summit that we should document https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder#Minimum_Driver_Features in a dev doc or something that is checked in instead of the wiki | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | hemna: haha! There's no shortage | 16:29 |
| hemna | yah | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: yes sir!! | 16:30 |
| hemna | we need to just decide what we want out of it. | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: so since I'm very unpopular on this topic :) | 16:30 |
| vincent_hou_ | How does cinder manage the event so far? | 16:30 |
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| hemna | kmartin, +1 | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: my thought here was that I would bring it up as a TC disucssion | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | discussion | 16:30 |
| kmartin | ok...anyone know where the doc is, I'll update it | 16:30 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: ok check with the TC | 16:31 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: +1 | 16:31 |
| thingee | kmartin: cinder/doc in the repo | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | You all know my thoughts :) | 16:31 |
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| thingee | kmartin: I've already started updating the docs with volume_stats...I was mainly concerned with that being consistent :) | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou_: any thoughts on the comments regarding your download image patch? | 16:32 |
| thingee | kmartin: I want eyes once that review is posted to make sure people are fine with that before we start enforcing that. Mainly so I have somewhere to point people in reviews :) | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/25365/ | 16:33 |
| vincent_hou_ | jgriffith: I would like to add a condition check to make sure the volume is a proper place. | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou_: what do you mean by that? | 16:33 |
| vincent_hou_ | For example, it is brand new without any modifications. | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou_: but then I would ask even more... why? | 16:34 |
| kmartin | thingee: great...DuncanT said he would to pull the drivers out that didn't meet the requirement, but that was a few beers in at one of the parties | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou_: why not just create a new volume? | 16:34 |
| vincent_hou_ | It the volume has data on it, it cannot do the download. | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou_: understand | 16:34 |
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| thingee | kmartin: I don't mind being "that guy". | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | thingee: is hereby elected as "that guy" | 16:34 |
| hemna | lol | 16:35 |
| kmartin | thingee: +1 | 16:35 |
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| dachary | ahaha | 16:35 |
| vincent_hou_ | if a volume is already created, just brand new without doing anything on it. Then it can be a destination where an image is downloaded into. | 16:35 |
| DuncanT | kmartin: I'm still quite happy to do it | 16:36 |
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| that_guy | DuncanT: we'll flip a coin. | 16:36 |
| guitarzan | you already got the nick | 16:36 |
| DuncanT | vincent_hou_: We don't track whether a volume has stuff on it... once it has been attached, how could we? | 16:36 |
| DuncanT | that_guy: Swords at dawn | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou_: DuncanT I guess I'm just not sure of the value | 16:37 |
| DuncanT | vincent_hou_: And if it hasn't got anything on it, ignore it and create a new volume | 16:37 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I agree | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou_: DuncanT sure, we could look at last attach entry but why? | 16:37 |
| hemna | If it's not attached, then I'd assume it's available for whatever. | 16:37 |
| vincent_hou_ | OK. i see the point. | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | so this goes back to my rant about being "cloudy" | 16:37 |
| guitarzan | new volume +1 | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | if that makes sense to anyone | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | The idea is abstraction and elasticity | 16:38 |
| hemna | you aren't really supposed to care what's on it, or where it came from (from a user's perspective) | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I totally agree | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | kk | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou_: you ok with that? | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou_: If you have a real compelling use case we can take another look | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou_: I'm just not seeing the value/use case for it other than "because we can" | 16:39 |
| vincent_hou_ | yes. | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | Ok... cool | 16:39 |
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| jgriffith | vincent_hou_: this is likely to come up again | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou_: so keep the code around :) | 16:40 |
| vincent_hou_ | sure. | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | that_guy: I'm going to change all of my filters/highlights now | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | s/thingee/that_guy/g | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | kk... anything else from anyone? | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | Doh!!! | 16:41 |
| * jgriffith goes back and changes everything again | 16:41 | |
| jgallard | FYI, I'm working on multi backend tempest tests : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/23923/ | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | jgallard: yes, I've been following that | 16:41 |
| thingee | jgallard: yes thanks for that :) | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | jgallard: thanks a ton for working on those | 16:41 |
| jgallard | you'r welcome! | 16:41 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: who own the "brick" project / refactor attach stuff? | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: I'm actively working on it | 16:42 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: is there a BP yet? | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: that's what we were saying earlier | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: I have one up for oslo, need to put one up for cinder and nova | 16:42 |
| thingee | https://github.com/j-griffith/brick | 16:42 |
| hemna | ooh we have brick already? | 16:43 |
| hemna | ship it! | 16:43 |
| bswartz | k | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | that's subject to look rather different by the end of the day :) | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | I'll get a bp up | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | alright.. I gotta run unfortunately | 16:43 |
| bswartz | sounds good | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | anything else real quick? | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | Ok.. I'll be back in about 15 minutes on cinder channel | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | thanks everyone | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 16:44 |
| hemna | real quick? How about extra spec standardization? :P | 16:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 16:44 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 24 16:44:23 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:44 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-04-24-16.00.html | 16:44 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-04-24-16.00.txt | 16:44 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-04-24-16.00.log.html | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | hemna: that's not real quick :) | 16:44 |
| bswartz | nooooo | 16:44 |
| hemna | :) | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | hemna: and yes we should talk about it | 16:44 |
| bswartz | plan a 4 hour meeting | 16:44 |
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| DuncanT | hemna: We can continue in #openstack-cinder | 16:44 |
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| shardy | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 24 20:00:12 2013 UTC. The chair is shardy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
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| shardy | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| stevebaker | here (technically on holiday) | 20:00 |
| shardy | shardy here :) | 20:00 |
| harlowja | here | 20:00 |
| zb | I'm here | 20:00 |
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| hanney | me too | 20:00 |
| graflu0 | here | 20:00 |
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| SpamapS | o/ | 20:00 |
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| jpeeler | hi | 20:01 |
| fsargent | Hi | 20:01 |
| fsargent | Good to see you all again! | 20:01 |
| fsargent | (read you all again?) | 20:01 |
| * mordred lurking | 20:01 | |
| randallburt | hi there | 20:02 |
| kebray | My first meeting… will be observing. | 20:02 |
| tspatzier | Hi all | 20:02 |
| harlowja | howdy, just sent out a big thing about the future of heat, check openstack-dev :-p | 20:02 |
| harlowja | zookeeper ftw, haha | 20:02 |
| shardy | cool, good to see you all :) | 20:02 |
| stevebaker | heh | 20:02 |
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| shardy | #topic Review last week's actions | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last week's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
| * shardy looks, I don't think there were any | 20:03 | |
| harlowja | *go to summit, behave at summit ? | 20:03 |
| zaneb | definitely not from *last* week ;) | 20:03 |
| harlowja | i mostly behaved | 20:03 |
| SpamapS | there was one. "Take a week to recover liver function" | 20:03 |
| shardy | zaneb: haha, yeah last *meeting* ;) | 20:03 |
| shardy | lots of actions from last week, which brings us to.. | 20:03 |
| shardy | #topic Summit review, action summary | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit review, action summary (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:04 | |
| shardy | So I've had a first pass over the BPs, trying to capture the Heat actions from all the discussion last week | 20:04 |
| harlowja | https://etherpad.openstack.org/task-system is a big one, maybe more just discussion also | 20:04 |
| shardy | Can everyone please review, and check that I've not missed anything, that details and links are OK etc | 20:04 |
| shardy | harlowja: I raised a BP for that earlier but didn't have the link: | 20:05 |
| harlowja | kk | 20:05 |
| harlowja | thx | 20:05 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/workflow-library | 20:05 |
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| harlowja | good good | 20:05 |
| shardy | I've not yet targetted that to havana as I'm unsure who will do the work | 20:06 |
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| harlowja | ya, its a big cross-project topic | 20:06 |
| kebray | shardy: I will put some resources on task-library | 20:06 |
| harlowja | *with discussion still ongoing | 20:06 |
| shardy | We have this so far (which already looks like a lot of work): | 20:06 |
| SpamapS | In starting to look at how rolling updates will be done, it may require a task library too | 20:06 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/havana | 20:07 |
| shardy | #action everyone to review havana BPs | 20:07 |
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| shardy | kebray: great, lets talk after the meeting | 20:07 |
| shardy | Anyone else got anything summit-action related to mention? | 20:07 |
| harlowja | shardy: also maybe we can talk about how said workflow-library could even be done (especially without affecting the other people working on heat/nova), that last part is the tricky one :-p | 20:08 |
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| zaneb | harlowja: that almost needs a separate meeting | 20:08 |
| shardy | harlowja: agree, I think it's a good idea, but there are still too many questions to commit to doing it for havana IMHO | 20:08 |
| zaneb | harlowja: but I think more discussion on the ML is required first | 20:08 |
| shardy | zaneb: agree, should we pick that up in #heat and/or the ML? | 20:09 |
| SpamapS | one thing from the summit that bears repeating: Lots of working coming in will mean the heat core team will need help reviewing.. | 20:09 |
| harlowja | zaneb shardy agreed, but u have to start with baby-steps, and baby-steps seem possible in havana | 20:09 |
| SpamapS | so, get out there and get reviewing. :) | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | using zookeeper seems to be polarizing, can someone summarize the argument against using it? | 20:09 |
| harlowja | zaneb shardy i just don't want it to turn into, oh to big for havana, than oh to big for "I" series, then oh to big for "J" series :-p | 20:10 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: starts with j, ends in ava .. | 20:10 |
| zaneb | harlowja: agreed. baby steps. I haven't read your mailing list post yet, but I will look later | 20:10 |
| harlowja | stevebaker: polarizing, i hope not, its a requriement in distributed systems imho, but maybe thats the polarizing aspect, haha | 20:10 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: lol | 20:10 |
| harlowja | zaneb: thx | 20:10 |
| shardy | harlowja: If someone steps up and presents a clear design/plan and some code, then we can target it to havana, not saying definitely no | 20:11 |
| zaneb | zookeeper sounds like a big dependency to be taking on | 20:11 |
| shardy | Anyone want to take an action to formulate a plan in a wiki page? | 20:11 |
| harlowja | shardy: of course, i'd like to have some code in both places, heat and nova starting to do the right thing with 'baby-steps' | 20:11 |
| zaneb | I guess that is what makes it polarising | 20:11 |
| * shardy things harlowja is volunteering ;) | 20:11 | |
| SpamapS | There are alternatives to zk | 20:11 |
| shardy | s/things/thinks | 20:11 |
| SpamapS | the *concept* is definitely one that should be investigated. | 20:12 |
| kebray | shardy harlowja When does a "clear" plan need to be presented by for Havana? | 20:12 |
| harlowja | shardy: haha, i'm gonna make it happen, i'm just trying to figure out how to get there also ;) | 20:12 |
| randallburt | agreed. zk is a possible solution to distributed state management | 20:12 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: excellent. let's hear 'em ;) | 20:12 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: https://github.com/ha/doozerd | 20:12 |
| SpamapS | written in go.. MIT license | 20:13 |
| harlowja | i just wonder about the maturity of all of those other ones, pretty much every big distributed system out there is using ZK :-p | 20:13 |
| SpamapS | so its not a slam dunk for OpenStack ;) | 20:13 |
| shardy | kebray: I'm not proposing a hard deadline, we can decide when we have a plan and resources to implement | 20:13 |
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| SpamapS | harlowja: and yet, ZK still doesn't have SSL... :-/ | 20:13 |
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| shardy | #action someone to create workflow-library wiki page | 20:13 |
| harlowja | i can push for that hard @ yahoo (where ZK came from) if thats what we want | 20:13 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: Go? Oh well, nice try ;P | 20:13 |
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| shardy | Ok, anything else from summit or can we move on? | 20:14 |
| shardy | #topic Bug triage/milestone assignment | 20:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bug triage/milestone assignment (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:14 | |
| shardy | Ok, so I'd like everyone to change the bug states from "New" to something else (Triaged/Confirmed) when they assign a bug to themselves or someone else | 20:15 |
| stevebaker | ok | 20:15 |
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| sandywalsh | #link https://github.com/knipknap/SpiffWorkflow | 20:16 |
| shardy | Also please target the bug to the next release, so we can track all the assigned bugs for each milestone | 20:16 |
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| shardy | I can do this, but it will make it much easier (for me ;) if everybody just does it when they change the assignee | 20:16 |
| shardy | it that's cool with everyone that is ;) | 20:16 |
| SpamapS | shardy: should we target bugs we don't actually know we'll fix? | 20:16 |
| harlowja | sandywalsh: all for libraries, but we need to nail down something simple first imho, haha | 20:16 |
| SpamapS | s/know/think/ | 20:17 |
| SpamapS | I'd think that we only want bugs we're willing to commit to at least trying to fix | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | shardy: do you know about ttx.py? | 20:17 |
| shardy | SpamapS: If you're assigned a bug then I'm assuming you will either fix it or close it | 20:17 |
| shardy | Then we'll bump any bugs which aren't fixed before we tag a release (to the next milestone) | 20:17 |
| SpamapS | shardy: some bugs have medium/low priority and get done more when the time is right, not "now or never" | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | shardy: launchpad sanity checking script https://github.com/ttx/bp-issues | 20:18 |
| shardy | SpamapS: Ok, well that's pefectly fine, just change the status to something other than New | 20:18 |
| SpamapS | Right, Triaged seems appropriate for that :) | 20:18 |
| SpamapS | like "I have looked, I ack its a bug and is workable by a dev.. but Medium/Low probably means it isn't getting done soon. | 20:18 |
| shardy | I'm just trying to keep some sort of bug pipeline organised without doing pointless-clicking myself all day :) | 20:19 |
| shardy | stevebaker: thanks, I'll check it out | 20:19 |
| shardy | Ok, anything else on bug workflow? | 20:20 |
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| shardy | #topic Blueprint review for Havana | 20:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint review for Havana (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:20 | |
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| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/havana | 20:21 |
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| shardy | So is everyone happy with BPs they are assigned atm? | 20:21 |
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| shardy | I probably have too many so shout if anyone sees something I've got that they'd like to take ;) | 20:22 |
| stevebaker | it will change over time, no doubt | 20:22 |
| shardy | stevebaker: Yep, just want to make sure we're all vaguely happy for now :) | 20:22 |
| SpamapS | hm | 20:22 |
| harlowja | shardy: i'd keep the workflow-lib open, i think the picture will get clearer soon i hope | 20:22 |
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| SpamapS | which one of those is "run n+1 engines" ? | 20:22 |
| harlowja | hoping for baby-steps in hava :) | 20:22 |
| SpamapS | to me that is the only Critical BP we discussed at the summit | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | shardy: I've been mulling over trusts, so I may be asking where it is in your queue at some point | 20:23 |
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| SpamapS | as in, Heat is pretty craptastic for any sort of large scale usage without it. | 20:23 |
| shardy | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/multiple-engines | 20:23 |
| shardy | SpamapS: I've not targetted that one correctly, thanks | 20:23 |
| shardy | fixed | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | shardy: np, just wanted to make sure it wasn't lost (in fact I keep losing it and forgetting the name.. ;) | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | who wants to be assigned to it for now? | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | seems like asalkeld was most actively pursuing it | 20:25 |
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| shardy | I'll speak to asalkeld and see if he's happy to take it | 20:26 |
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| shardy | If anyone wants to take any of the remaining unassigned ones, please do, then we can take another look next week | 20:26 |
| stevebaker | too late, I assigned him ;) | 20:26 |
| shardy | If anyone spots any other errors please let me know | 20:26 |
| shardy | stevebaker: haha :D | 20:27 |
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| randallburt | shardy: sorry for my ignornace but is it just core devs who can sign up, or can us new guys take one | 20:27 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: that will teach him not to show up to the meeting ;) | 20:27 |
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| shardy | randallburt: absolutely anyone can take one | 20:27 |
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| * shardy would be very very happy to see some non-core devs on that list ;) | 20:27 | |
| randallburt | cool. I guess I'll take the dsl one unless there are objections | 20:27 |
| shardy | randallburt: Ok, thanks | 20:27 |
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| shardy | I guess that one will be a bit of a team-effort, perhaps we'll need to create some child-BPs when we've fully defined what needs to be done | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | randallburt: an approved blueprint is just a vague indication that you're not wasting your time developing something | 20:28 |
| randallburt | shardy: agreed | 20:28 |
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| shardy | Yep, and the message I have ringing in my ears from summit is people want dsl/hot, so we definitely approve of that BP ;) | 20:29 |
| randallburt | I can ride herd and expect the work to be broken up quite a bit | 20:29 |
| shardy | randallburt: Ok, cool, well thanks for offering to drive it | 20:29 |
| kebray | Thanks randallburt. | 20:29 |
| randallburt | my pleasure | 20:29 |
| SpamapS | randallburt: right, the BP assignee is really just the one who answers the "how is it going" question at the meetings. You can break it up into a bunch of bugs or even sub-blueprints. | 20:29 |
| zaneb | shardy: the message I heard was that people want features that cloudformation does not support | 20:29 |
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| randallburt | cool, thanks! | 20:30 |
| shardy | zaneb: Ok, true, that is a more accurate statement | 20:30 |
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| shardy | people certainly talked about alternate template language a lot too tho ;) | 20:30 |
| shardy | anyway.. | 20:30 |
| randallburt | a *lot* | 20:30 |
| zaneb | developers talked about that a lot | 20:31 |
| shardy | Anything else on BP's before we move on to open discussion? | 20:31 |
| shardy | #topic Open discussion | 20:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:31 | |
| stevebaker | I'm on leave next week | 20:32 |
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| shardy | So I'm in the process of getting openstack/heat-templates repo created, ref ML discussion | 20:32 |
| SpamapS | shardy: sweet. :) | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | shardy: start by doing it in a personal github repo | 20:32 |
| randallburt | lol | 20:33 |
| shardy | haha | 20:33 |
| stevebaker | then import happens magically when you do the gerrit review to openstack-ci-puppet | 20:33 |
| SpamapS | oh | 20:33 |
| SpamapS | do we still want to move to testr? | 20:33 |
| stevebaker | YES | 20:33 |
| SpamapS | I'm happy to take that on | 20:34 |
| shardy | stevebaker: I assumed we just wanted a new empty repo? | 20:34 |
| stevebaker | cool | 20:34 |
| SpamapS | is there already a bug? | 20:34 |
| shardy | since I guess we don't care about template revision history that much? | 20:34 |
| stevebaker | shardy: you could have a crack at an initial structure | 20:34 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: Yep, I'm planning to create a tentative dir structure, copy in the CFN templates and heat-jeos TDLs | 20:35 |
| shardy | then other stuff can be added later | 20:35 |
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| stevebaker | SpamapS: I though there was one, maybe there is a project-wide bug we can attach to | 20:35 |
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| SpamapS | https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1172468 | 20:36 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1172468 in heat "Replace nose with testr" [Medium,Triaged] | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: just remove the integration tests, I'll be looking at tempest soon | 20:37 |
| shardy | any other topics or did we all do too much talking last week :) | 20:37 |
| * SpamapS has been feeling fairly antosocial since Friday | 20:37 | |
| SpamapS | anti even | 20:38 |
| shardy | randallburt: did you have any dsl interpreted versions of the example templates to share, or is that still in-progress? | 20:38 |
| SpamapS | I saw a few | 20:39 |
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| * shardy must've missed the link | 20:39 | |
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| randallburt | still in progress | 20:39 |
| shardy | randallburt: ok, cool | 20:39 |
| kebray | I thought Adrian added some to his articles, no? | 20:39 |
| randallburt | we have a couple of the simple ones but are still refining | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | one thing I saw that was missing that I want is a separation from describing "an app" and "a vm" | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | but I think thats just because I don't know how to read them yet :) | 20:40 |
| randallburt | we should probably get together soon and get everyones input since this will be a bit of a bear | 20:40 |
| randallburt | final input that is. | 20:40 |
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| shardy | kebray: they were just example snippets, I'm talking about fully converted versions of those in https://gist.github.com/hardys/5408410 | 20:40 |
| shardy | (not necessarily all of them ;) | 20:41 |
| randallburt | shardy: Andrew and I are working on that this week | 20:41 |
| kebray | shardy got it. Ok, definitely something randall can help ride herd on. | 20:41 |
| shardy | Ok, cool, not chasing just wondered if there was anything to look at yet :) | 20:41 |
| randallburt | k | 20:41 |
| shardy | If there's nothing else we can end the meeting early? | 20:41 |
| randallburt | we'll ping the list when we get something to show | 20:41 |
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| SpamapS | early +1 | 20:41 |
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| shardy | randallburt: Ok, great, thanks | 20:42 |
| tspatzier | randallburt: if you want to have some offline discussion on the samples, I'd be happy to discuss | 20:42 |
| randallburt | tspatzier: very much. thanks! | 20:42 |
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| shardy | Ok, we can follow up re templates etc on ML and #heat, thanks | 20:42 |
| shardy | #endmeeting | 20:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 20:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 24 20:42:49 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-04-24-20.00.html | 20:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-04-24-20.00.txt | 20:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-04-24-20.00.log.html | 20:42 |
| shardy | thanks all! | 20:42 |
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| SpamapS | shardy: ty! | 20:43 |
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| fsargent | ty! | 20:43 |
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| jd__ | #startmeeting ceilometer | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 24 21:01:39 2013 UTC. The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 21:01 |
| * dhellmann has finally figured out timezones | 21:01 | |
| dhellmann | and dst | 21:02 |
| jd__ | hehe dhellmann | 21:02 |
| * n0ano needs a dst tutorial | 21:02 | |
| dragondm | o/ howdy! | 21:02 |
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| dhellmann | google's calendar doesn't have a UTC timezone, but apple's ical does | 21:02 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:02 |
| n0ano | o/ | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:02 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 21:02 |
| apmelton | o/ | 21:02 |
| epende | o/ | 21:02 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: oh it does, I use it | 21:02 |
| gordc | o/ | 21:02 |
| eglynn | asalkeld sends apologies ... it's ANZAC Day | 21:02 |
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| eglynn | (a public holiday in Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anzac_Day) | 21:02 |
| * dhellmann will ask jd__ about that later | 21:02 | |
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| fnaval | o/ | 21:02 |
| jd__ | eglynn: was worried you meant prozac day, hopefully I googled :] | 21:03 |
| eglynn | LOL :) | 21:03 |
| jd__ | #topic Blueprints creation and assignment for Havana | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints creation and assignment for Havana (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:03 | |
| sandywalsh | o/ | 21:03 |
| jd__ | so our dear RM asked us to create blueprint, assign them to people and to havana series | 21:03 |
| jd__ | so let's do that this week! | 21:04 |
| sileht | o/ | 21:04 |
| eglynn | yep, absolutely ... it's on todo list | 21:04 |
| eglynn | (while the summit is still fresh) | 21:04 |
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| jd__ | I think me and sileht are going to split alarming in bp, with help of eglynn and asalkeld I imagine :) | 21:04 |
| sandywalsh | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/stacktach-cm-integration | 21:04 |
| jd__ | so we'll coordinate as usual | 21:04 |
| eglynn | cool | 21:04 |
| sandywalsh | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/stacktach-integration | 21:05 |
| jd__ | feel free to cover other topics you're interested in and to ping me if you need help, or anything | 21:05 |
| nijaba | o/ | 21:05 |
| sandywalsh | that's the Epic BP for the sub-bp's ^ | 21:05 |
| sandywalsh | still working on it | 21:05 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: awesome | 21:05 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: can you target this yourself to havana or should I? | 21:06 |
| eglynn | are we aiming to have all Havana BPs filed and reviewed by end of week? | 21:06 |
| eglynn | (or by next meeting?) | 21:06 |
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| jd__ | eglynn: well next meeting/week would be good | 21:06 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, not sure if I can ... lemme check | 21:06 |
| eglynn | cool | 21:06 |
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| llu-laptop | ah, just want to ask the same question as eglynn's | 21:07 |
| jd__ | llu-laptop: same answer then | 21:07 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, I targeted the epic to havana-3 ... will try to get the subs done tomorrow | 21:07 |
| eglynn | sandywalsh: you may need to be on the drivers team https://launchpad.net/~ceilometer-drivers to do so | 21:07 |
| eglynn | sandywalsh: scratch that! | 21:07 |
| sandywalsh | :) | 21:07 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: perfect, i've set the series to havana too | 21:07 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, cool ... thanks | 21:08 |
| jd__ | I think you can set the series to havana and then I can approve | 21:09 |
| * jd__ discovers LP | 21:09 | |
| sandywalsh | seems to be set already | 21:09 |
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| jd__ | sandywalsh: yeah I did it manually for this one :) | 21:09 |
| jd__ | and I'll set the priorities when we're done based on some random thoughts and opinions | 21:10 |
| sandywalsh | cool ... I'll try to map the dependencies in best order I can | 21:10 |
| nijaba | jd__: use coin flips too, please | 21:10 |
| jd__ | anything else you want to discuss on bp? we can coordinate later anyway | 21:10 |
| jd__ | nijaba: sure :-) | 21:11 |
| sandywalsh | I have dependent olso and nova bp's as well, hopefully it all syncs up | 21:11 |
| jd__ | #topic Initial alarm implementation | 21:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Initial alarm implementation (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:11 | |
| eglynn | it may make sense to split this monolithic patch into smaller more digestible chunks | 21:12 |
| jd__ | so the point was to discuss about the few bp and pieces we could start with and on | 21:12 |
| jd__ | eglynn: totally | 21:12 |
| eglynn | e.g. core alarms API, storage layer, initial v. simple threshold evaluation, metric pre-aggregation | 21:12 |
| jd__ | +1 again :) | 21:12 |
| eglynn | ... then maybe add history API, split transports, metric caching etc. | 21:12 |
| jd__ | eglynn or sileht, is there a particular area you prefer to tackle? | 21:13 |
| llu-laptop | eglynn: what's "initial v."? | 21:13 |
| jd__ | I can coordinate the blueprints as a whole, but pick what you want to do :) | 21:13 |
| eglynn | v. simple = very simple | 21:13 |
| eglynn | yep, I'm pretty open | 21:13 |
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| eglynn | I wouldn't mind working on anything I spoke about at summit ... say the threshold evulation piece initially | 21:14 |
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| jd__ | fine with me, sileht, opinion? | 21:14 |
| sileht | me too | 21:14 |
| eglynn | cool | 21:15 |
| jd__ | ok whatever you do, just synchronise :) | 21:15 |
| jd__ | I'll build some blueprints tomorrow unless someone wants to take over | 21:15 |
| jd__ | based on what eglynn described | 21:15 |
| jd__ | and you'll affinate if you want! | 21:15 |
| jd__ | like cheese. | 21:15 |
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| eglynn | jd__: cool, I'm up for helping with BP definition also | 21:16 |
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| jd__ | eglynn: thank you :) | 21:16 |
| jd__ | eglynn: I'll ping you tomorrow then! | 21:16 |
| eglynn | jd__: great! | 21:16 |
| jd__ | anything else? | 21:17 |
| eglynn | sileht: in terms of splitting up the patch, git rebase -i / add -i are your friends ;) | 21:17 |
| sileht | yep :) | 21:18 |
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| nealph | jd_: do we have a master list of bp's needing to be generated, or are we going from memory? | 21:18 |
| nealph | or perhaps from the summit proposal list? | 21:18 |
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| eglynn | that's a good starting point, plus the etherpads | 21:19 |
| jd__ | nealph: yeah I think etherpad is a good starting point | 21:19 |
| sandywalsh | nealph, I went from the summit talks and worked backwards | 21:19 |
| sandywalsh | (and the etherpads, yes) | 21:19 |
| nealph | sandywalsh:thanks, will look at doing the same. | 21:20 |
| jd__ | thanks guys | 21:20 |
| jd__ | #topic Open discussion | 21:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:20 | |
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| n0ano | dare I ask what's happening with the Healthnmon integration/co-existence? | 21:21 |
| DanD_ | question for sandywalsh in your presentation you talked about a data model to support the events you want to add. is that available somewhere? | 21:21 |
| sandywalsh | DanD_, the one I've been working from is on the etherpad | 21:21 |
| jd__ | n0ano: they're supposed to come to us with some piece of code we'd use | 21:21 |
| eglynn | n0ano: primarly to give ceilo hypervisor breath & reach | 21:22 |
| sandywalsh | DanD_, https://etherpad.openstack.org/Supporting-rich-data-types | 21:22 |
| jd__ | n0ano: first would be the virt pollster support for Xen and others | 21:22 |
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| sandywalsh | (and the github repo link is in there too) | 21:22 |
| DanD_ | ok thanks | 21:22 |
| sandywalsh | DanD_, it's likely to change | 21:22 |
| sandywalsh | but not terribly | 21:22 |
| DanD_ | i figured that we would like some input on it too :) | 21:22 |
| n0ano | so that means we're effectively going straight to the coding phase & bypassing the architectural phase | 21:23 |
| sandywalsh | DanD_, absolutely | 21:23 |
| sandywalsh | n0ano, the what? ;) | 21:23 |
| eglynn | n0ano: we spoke at lenght with them at summit about bridging the architectural mismatches | 21:23 |
| sandywalsh | we definitely need to figure out the settling time problem and the multi-queue-per-data-type changes | 21:23 |
| n0ano | I'm still unclear how the two integrate, are they separate services, do they get merged into one. | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | n0ano: the idea is for the healthnmon team to bring their hypervisor monitoring agent into ceilometer to replace our existing agent | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | it will need to change to emit data in the right format using the pipeline publisher, etc. | 21:24 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, I thought the agent was going away in favor of the nova notification approach? | 21:24 |
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| jd__ | yeah kudos for eglynn for clearing things with healthnmon :) | 21:25 |
| eglynn | n0ano: IIRC the aggreement was that the peice of healthnmon that makes more sense to ceilo will move the ceilo, but the inventory manager peice stays separate | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: that was not my understanding based on the meeting I was in, but maybe I missed a conversation | 21:25 |
| sandywalsh | eglynn, might want to re-confirm that | 21:26 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: that was my understanding at some point, but that requires anyway someone to do that into Nova | 21:26 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, jd__ we can help with that certainly ... an agentless approach will keep operations happy | 21:26 |
| n0ano | this is why I prefer the mailing list, things are more concrete when typed out | 21:26 |
| dragondm | sandywalsh: helthnmon's agents monitor multiple hypervisors. It's more sensible, since the code exists, and they can monitor things outside of Nova's sphere (i.e. host stats) | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | if nova starts emitting enough data frequently enough, we don't need the healthnmon agent, so there's nothing to integrate, right? | 21:26 |
| llu-laptop | sandywalsh: by saying agent, do you mean compute agent or central agent? | 21:26 |
| eglynn | my understanding is that initially their hypervisor drivers will be used to extend our virt inspector model to be non-libvirt-specific | 21:26 |
| eglynn | (we wrap in our compute agent as opposed to taking their agent) | 21:27 |
| eglynn | eventually tho' the compute agent goes away in fvour of native nova notifications | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | We have, I think, had this conversation several times. Perhaps what we need is a blueprint with a specific proposal? | 21:27 |
| sandywalsh | hmm | 21:27 |
| DanD_ | I would be happy if the nova events and the seperate agent could cooexist initially but you could turn one or the other off | 21:27 |
| llu-laptop | eglynn: that's my understanding too. | 21:27 |
| n0ano | dhellmann, +1 | 21:28 |
| dragondm | also their proxies/agents/whatever monitor n to 1 hypervisors. They don't need to be installed on the computes. | 21:28 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, what's "frequently enough"? | 21:28 |
| eglynn | ok let's try to codify what we all took from the conversation with healthnmon into a BP | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: that's up to the deployer | 21:28 |
| eglynn | I'll get the ball rolling tomorrow | 21:28 |
| sandywalsh | dragondm, good point, forgot about that part | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | dragondm: right, that was the other key feature (in addition to having more drivers than we do now) | 21:29 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, I think we need to have limits on what's possible there. The could result in a *lot* of messages | 21:29 |
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| sandywalsh | dhellmann, can't just say "it's up to you" | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: they wouldn't all go to the message bus, it would depend on how the pipeline is configured | 21:30 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, true, but still | 21:30 |
| sandywalsh | anyway, certainly room for more discussion | 21:30 |
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| dhellmann | yep | 21:31 |
| dragondm | I'll want to look at how the healthnmon pollers send their data. Given the n-1 polling, they could condense alot into a smaller # of messages. | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | it will need to be updated to use the pipeline publisher in ceilometer, and that does support batching | 21:32 |
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| eglynn | cool, do we have specific actions on this topic? | 21:33 |
| eglynn | e.g. #action eglynn get BP(s) on healthnmon proposed as a condensation point for discussion & agreement | 21:33 |
| dhellmann | yes, I think it would be really helpful to have the proposals for changing hypervisor "polling" written down so we have something concrete and everyone can understand what will be changed, why, and potentially when | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | I think we have 2 proposals, for nova notification changes and for healthnmon's agent | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | those should be considered separately | 21:35 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: +1 | 21:35 |
| sileht | I must go, see you | 21:36 |
| eglynn | are BPs the best way to do this? | 21:36 |
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| eglynn | or wiki/ML/etherpad? | 21:36 |
| eglynn | sileht: bye! | 21:36 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, +1 | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | I think a combination of BP, wiki, and then ML for discussion makes sense | 21:36 |
| nijaba | goodnight sileht | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | we need the BP for tracking, we need the wiki for details, and we need the ML for hashing it out to make sure we all understand and all details are covered | 21:37 |
| eglynn | so, all of the above ;) | 21:37 |
| dhellmann | well, no etherpad, but we have some notes there now so I guess yeah :-) | 21:38 |
| sandywalsh | ours is essentially done, which consists of adding the xen hypervisor driver support to libvirt | 21:38 |
| sandywalsh | and then the .exists records will be correct | 21:38 |
| dhellmann | cool | 21:39 |
| jd__ | nice | 21:39 |
| eglynn | so is the goal just xenapi & libvirt? (healthnmon have coverage on ESX, hyper-V etc.) | 21:39 |
| jd__ | I'd tend to answer the goal is nova… :) | 21:39 |
| eglynn | not that I'm shouting for ESX, hyper-V support or anything ;) | 21:39 |
| dhellmann | we want to cover all of them if we can, right? | 21:40 |
| jd__ | sure | 21:40 |
| sandywalsh | the mechanism is already in the virt layer, if the hypervisor maintainers support or not is a different question. | 21:40 |
| eglynn | that's fair enough | 21:41 |
| sandywalsh | one option would be for HP to put their last mile code in a library and the virt drivers could just access it ... dunno | 21:41 |
| eglynn | the healthnmon guys would argue that they've got the existing hypervisor breath right now | 21:41 |
| dhellmann | should we open bugs against the hypervisor drivers that don't provide the data, in nova? | 21:41 |
| sandywalsh | agreed | 21:41 |
| eglynn | makes sense | 21:41 |
| sandywalsh | (to both points :) | 21:41 |
| sandywalsh | if they want CM support, it would need to be in there | 21:42 |
| dhellmann | I wonder if they don't know we want it, though? | 21:42 |
| sandywalsh | I'm sure they don't | 21:42 |
| dhellmann | it sounds like we need a volunteer to open some bugs. | 21:43 |
| * dhellmann not it | 21:43 | |
| sandywalsh | #action, sandywalsh will open bugs for virt layers support with other hypervisor maintainers | 21:44 |
| dhellmann | thanks, sandywalsh :-) | 21:44 |
| eglynn | so the bugs would be for parity with xenapi on the bw counters / get_diagnostics APIs? | 21:44 |
| dhellmann | right | 21:44 |
| sandywalsh | correct | 21:44 |
| eglynn | cool, understood | 21:44 |
| dragondm | yup | 21:44 |
| dhellmann | even if we do still use an agent (ours, healthnmon, whatever), it would be good for those notification messages to be consistent | 21:44 |
| eglynn | yep, absolutely | 21:45 |
| dragondm | also yup. | 21:45 |
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| jd__ | cool :) | 21:45 |
| jd__ | ending the meeting in a minute unless someone has anything else | 21:47 |
| eglynn | nowt from me ... | 21:47 |
| dhellmann | that's all I have | 21:48 |
| sandywalsh | that's enough :) | 21:48 |
| jd__ | thanks guys! | 21:48 |
| jd__ | #endmeeting | 21:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:48 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 24 21:48:19 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:48 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-04-24-21.01.html | 21:48 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-04-24-21.01.txt | 21:48 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-04-24-21.01.log.html | 21:48 |
| nijaba | thanks jd__ | 21:48 |
| sandywalsh | thanks! later y'all | 21:48 |
| eglynn | laters ... | 21:48 |
| nijaba | l8r * | 21:48 |
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