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| jd__ | #startmeeting ceilometer | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 2 15:00:34 2013 UTC. The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 15:00 |
| jd__ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/MeteringAgenda | 15:00 |
| nijaba | o/ | 15:00 |
| jd__ | hi everyone | 15:00 |
| jd__ | hey nijaba | 15:01 |
| n0ano | o/ | 15:01 |
| flwang | hi jd__ | 15:01 |
| danspraggins | o/ | 15:01 |
| thomasm | hello | 15:01 |
| jd__ | hi flwang | 15:01 |
| *** nealph has joined #openstack-meeting | 15:01 | |
| *** gordc has joined #openstack-meeting | 15:01 | |
| apmelton | 0/ | 15:01 |
| sandywalsh | o/ | 15:01 |
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| llu-laptop | o/ | 15:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 15:01 |
| epende | o/ | 15:01 |
| dragondm | o/ | 15:01 |
| jd__ | #topic Havana blueprint assignment | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Havana blueprint assignment (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:02 | |
| jd__ | I've finished organizing blueprints for havana, I hope | 15:02 |
| jd__ | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/havana | 15:02 |
| jd__ | and we're supposed to have an assignee to each one | 15:02 |
| jd__ | so if you feel one of them attractive, go ahead | 15:03 |
| sandywalsh | I think we have some overlap between https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/add-event-table and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/sqlalchemy-metadata-query (as discussed at the summit). I think the same structure can be used for both. | 15:03 |
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| jd__ | sandywalsh: I don't think so, at least for now | 15:03 |
| sandywalsh | (on the sql side anyway) | 15:03 |
| gordc | anyone allowed to sign up for an unassigned bp? | 15:03 |
| jd__ | sqlalchemy-metadata-query is going to be implemented on top of what we have *now* | 15:03 |
| jd__ | gordc: I think so, otherwise tell me I'll assign | 15:04 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, k | 15:04 |
| dhellmann | the metadata query also needs to support samples that don't come from notifications | 15:04 |
| llu-laptop | I can take https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/paginate-db-search, though I might need some help from minjie_shen on HBase. | 15:04 |
| gordc | cool, i'll have a look at them and see if anything catches me eye. :) | 15:04 |
| jd__ | I've assigned myself to it because I don't think anyone is going to take it but I'll be happy to give it away | 15:04 |
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| jd__ | llu-laptop: fair enough | 15:04 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, I see the link from sample metadata -> event as been a weak link anyway (if there is an underlying event, great, otherwise, Null is valid) | 15:05 |
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| sandywalsh | and, was there a reason all the dependent bp's on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/stacktach-integration were left unassigned for havana? Is it just because the umbrella BP is sufficient? | 15:06 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: yep | 15:06 |
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| sandywalsh | (yet some other sub-bp's for that umbrella bp were "approved") | 15:06 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: no, they should be set on havana | 15:06 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: but some are from nova, and I don't touch nova bps | 15:07 |
| *** davidhadas_ is now known as davidhadas | 15:07 | |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: if I missed one about Ceilometer, i'd be glad to fix :) | 15:07 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, cool, yes, 1 or 2 were nova/olso | 15:07 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: yeah so you want to ask nova/oslo guys to change that :) | 15:07 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, thanks, I'll have a quick peek at them again | 15:07 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: otherwise ttx will not be happy! :-) | 15:07 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, I think they're all approved, but I'll double check | 15:07 |
| jd__ | ack | 15:08 |
| jd__ | well anyway feel free to ask me about blueprints if needed | 15:09 |
| jd__ | and to take any of them :) | 15:09 |
| ttx | I'm always happy. | 15:09 |
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| jd__ | ttx: let me use you as a leverage ;-) | 15:09 |
| jd__ | #topic Chair for next week meeting | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Chair for next week meeting (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:10 | |
| jd__ | I think I won't be there for the next meeting | 15:10 |
| jd__ | so I'd prefer to delegate the meeting run to be sure it runs | 15:10 |
| jd__ | anyone up for the task? | 15:10 |
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| sandywalsh | jd__, only one missing that I can see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/add-event-table | 15:11 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: fixing, thanks | 15:11 |
| flwang | @jd__, i have a question | 15:11 |
| dhellmann | jd__: I should be able to do it | 15:11 |
| sandywalsh | ttx should be dipped in bronze and placed at the entrance doors of the next summit :) | 15:12 |
| flwang | is it possible to add new blueprint into havana after it's almost settle down | 15:12 |
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| jd__ | dhellmann: thanks! | 15:12 |
| jd__ | flwang: yes, but likely only if you already have something nearly-implemented I'd say | 15:12 |
| jd__ | #topic Open discussion | 15:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:13 | |
| flwang | got it, thanks | 15:13 |
| jd__ | I'm out of topic so we can go back to bp or whatever you want | 15:13 |
| dhellmann | there was a ML thread on rpc/messaging security that may have an impact on ceilometer | 15:13 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-April/007916.html | 15:13 |
| jd__ | I tried to read the wiki page but I lost myself | 15:14 |
| dhellmann | I haven't been able to read all of it yet, but it was flagged by my "ceilometer" mail filter when mark mentioned us | 15:14 |
| dhellmann | if anyone knows about pki & ceilometer, maybe they can chime in? | 15:14 |
| dhellmann | also we have close to 20 changes in the queue right now, so we could use some reviews | 15:15 |
| * nijaba would be happy to followup on this | 15:15 | |
| jd__ | yeah, I'm definitely not an expert on this | 15:15 |
| sandywalsh | it's an interesting problem ... we're soon going to be running into resellers that we need to audit for revenue purposes. It's like we'll be a downstream consumer of Ceilometer billing-related events. Need to be able to prevent forgeries. | 15:16 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: you'd be perfect, since the question of repudiability (sp?) came up | 15:16 |
| jd__ | yeah, I'm back on reviews | 15:16 |
| sandywalsh | dragondm, how's your pki? | 15:16 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: lol@reputhingy | 15:16 |
| nijaba | #action nijaba to follow on message security thread and report next week | 15:16 |
| dragondm | I know a bit about it. I'll look throught the proposal | 15:16 |
| dhellmann | jd__: is there a french word for that? maybe it's easier to spell, even with the extra vowels? | 15:16 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: spelling is right :) | 15:17 |
| * dhellmann will not tempt fate by attempting *that* again | 15:17 | |
| nijaba | dhellmann: répudiabilité | 15:17 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: non-répudiation | 15:17 |
| jd__ | nijaba: I'm not sure répudiabilité exists actually in French? | 15:18 |
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| jd__ | dhellmann: the RPC thread seems turning quite good too, right? | 15:18 |
| llu-laptop | nova scheduler had a meeting several days ago, http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-04-30-15.04.html, they're planning to expand the hostState and add some kind of plugin mechanism to do the polling. | 15:18 |
| llu-laptop | Do you guys think we should ask them to publish the hostState so we can collect those polled data? | 15:19 |
| dhellmann | jd__: I think we're making progress. I feel like we at least understand the requirements. | 15:19 |
| sandywalsh | nijaba, jd__ that's impressive spelling | 15:19 |
| dhellmann | llu-laptop: "them"? "hostState"? | 15:19 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: yeah, I'm kinda thrilled about the URL approach so far | 15:19 |
| dhellmann | llu-laptop: oops, sorry, missed a message | 15:19 |
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| jd__ | llu-laptop: I don't know, what would be in the host state we would care about? | 15:20 |
| *** hungry-eglynn is now known as eglynn | 15:20 | |
| dhellmann | "collect all the data?" | 15:20 |
| flwang | dhellmann, are you talking about the host metrics? | 15:20 |
| eglynn | sorry, late arrival | 15:20 |
| llu-laptop | one obvious thing is the CPU utilization data | 15:20 |
| n0ano | not so much state as usage data, that's what might make sense to send to CM | 15:20 |
| sandywalsh | llu-laptop, the compute node should publish this on a fanout queue and let the scheduler / CM consume it as needed (that was my initial design on that mechanism) | 15:21 |
| dhellmann | jd__: I'm not sure the url thing is actually going to help us, but we'll see. | 15:21 |
| flwang | @dhellmann, if yes, I have discussed that with jd__ | 15:21 |
| n0ano | sandywalsh, there was a suggestion to use something like pub-sub for just such a thing | 15:21 |
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| sandywalsh | llu-laptop, otherwise, what's the advantage of getting it from the scheduler vs. the horse's mouth | 15:21 |
| sandywalsh | n0ano, that's what the queues and event notifications are for. No need to reinvent the wheel. | 15:22 |
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| jd__ | dhellmann: what would be your main concern about it? | 15:22 |
| llu-laptop | sandywalsh: RPC queue is what i'm talking about for 'publish' | 15:22 |
| n0ano | sandywalsh, WFM, I don't care how we send the data just that it goes out from the host and others can pick it up | 15:22 |
| sandywalsh | there can be downstream pubsub mechanisms to distribute (like AtomHopper or anything) | 15:22 |
| jd__ | llu-laptop: I agree these data are useful, not sure it's the best place to retrieve them though | 15:23 |
| dhellmann | jd__: I missed the first part of the thread, and didn't get the reference. I think we should get that data if we can, although sandywalsh has a point about the source | 15:23 |
| sandywalsh | llu-laptop, n0ano agreed | 15:23 |
| flwang | dhellmann, we can also get them from host directly by implement some new pollsters | 15:24 |
| sandywalsh | now, what would be interesting for us is to see the top-10 Weighted Host options that are determined before a scheduling choice is made | 15:24 |
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| sandywalsh | that could be some *really* valuable information for making better decisions down the road | 15:24 |
| jd__ | flwang: yeah, but we kinda don't want more pollsters :] | 15:24 |
| flwang | sandywalsh, yep, I have a simple list | 15:24 |
| dhellmann | flwang: true, though there's also the question of why collect the same data twice | 15:24 |
| sandywalsh | but trying to second guess the scheduler in CM doesn't make sense (since all the weighing and filtering functions are complex and live in the scheduler already) | 15:24 |
| n0ano | there was some discussion that data might be obtained from CM since CM is collecting data already but we don't want to make the scheduler dependent upon CM. | 15:25 |
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| dhellmann | the scheduler folks don't want to depend on our agent (understandibly), but maybe we can get them to send messages we can collect | 15:25 |
| sandywalsh | n0ano, +1 | 15:25 |
| flwang | dhellmann, yep, get them from MQ is another option | 15:25 |
| n0ano | concensus seemed to be that we can potentially utilize CM as an option if it's available. | 15:25 |
| n0ano | dhellmann, +1 | 15:25 |
| sandywalsh | what would be valuable to the scheduler is some idea of what's coming ... are there 100 instances about to be built, etc. | 15:26 |
| sandywalsh | CM could be useful for that (with Heat) | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | that would mean having them use "messages" and not RPC calls or casts | 15:26 |
| n0ano | sandywalsh, ?? - how does CM know that, I thought scheduler would know that before CM does | 15:26 |
| eglynn | notifying intent to spin up instances, e.g. via autoscaling? | 15:26 |
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| dhellmann | heat might know that, but CM don't -- we will know an alarm tripped, but not what action that will cause | 15:27 |
| eglynn | CM wouldn't know that | 15:27 |
| eglynn | yep | 15:27 |
| sandywalsh | n0ano, well, heat would know that there are more requests coming I would imaging ("things are heating up and I'm going to need more instances soon" , etc) | 15:27 |
| n0ano | dhellmann, indeed, the model for this data is more UDP than TCP, dropping a message here and there is acceptable. | 15:27 |
| sandywalsh | eglynn, yes, notifying intent | 15:27 |
| dhellmann | n0ano: real UDP, or message bus? | 15:27 |
| n0ano | dhellmann, just an analogy, an unreliable message system is OK | 15:28 |
| sandywalsh | scheduler already listens for fanout messages from the compute nodes. We could publish "intent" on a fanout queue too. Consume if desired. | 15:28 |
| dhellmann | n0ano: got it. | 15:28 |
| sandywalsh | n0ano, fan out is TTL, which would work well | 15:28 |
| eglynn | sandywalsh: so autoscaling in heat would more likely scale up in dribs and drabs, as opposed to one big bang of 100 instances | 15:28 |
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| eglynn | sandywalsh: e.g. continue to scale up if CPU util alarm hasn't cleared | 15:29 |
| n0ano | sandywalsh, a possibility but I would imagine we're looking at a second order effect at best, not something to make major scheduling decisions on | 15:29 |
| sandywalsh | eglynn, gotcha ... I'm just spitballing here. Other than "how many scheduling requests do I have in my queue" ... I can't imagine getting much valuable data from the scheduler. | 15:29 |
| eglynn | yeah (for each individual autoscaling group I meant, but I guess maybe a big bang would be possible in the aggregate ...) | 15:30 |
| sandywalsh | eglynn, yes, indeed | 15:30 |
| sandywalsh | and since the scheduler is single threaded currently, the queue size would be valuable | 15:30 |
| sandywalsh | but we could get that from amqp directly | 15:30 |
| sandywalsh | Heat: "the scheduler is busy, so a request for new instances are taking 10s before scheduling occurs" etc | 15:31 |
| sandywalsh | s/are/is | 15:31 |
| sandywalsh | again, thinking out loud here :) | 15:32 |
| eglynn | yes that could be useful perhaps to feed into Heat's cooldown backoff | 15:32 |
| * jd__ just understood this discussion after realizing what "horse's mouth" from sandywalsh meant | 15:32 | |
| sandywalsh | jd__, haha, sorry | 15:32 |
| jd__ | :-) | 15:32 |
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| eglynn | i.e. backoff less aggressively if there's an appreciable delay on the build queue | 15:33 |
| jd__ | and I agree with what has been said :) | 15:33 |
| sandywalsh | eglynn, +1 | 15:33 |
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| sandywalsh | eglynn, otherwise what will happen is Heat will see the need for more and keep throwing resource requests at it, but the delay is in the scheduler | 15:33 |
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| eglynn | sandywalsh: true that | 15:34 |
| eglynn | not sure how sophisticated/adaptive the AS cooldown logic is currently in Heat | 15:34 |
| eglynn | but it certainly sounds like plausibly useful info to have on hand ... | 15:35 |
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| jd__ | well, closing the meeting in a minute if nobody has anything to add today :) | 15:38 |
| nijaba | 45 | 15:38 |
| nijaba | 30 | 15:38 |
| jd__ | ah I though you wanted to add 45 | 15:39 |
| jd__ | :-) | 15:39 |
| jd__ | +t | 15:39 |
| nijaba | just a countdown | 15:39 |
| eglynn | PTL pivilege ;) | 15:39 |
| dragondm | "Fourty-Two!" | 15:39 |
| jd__ | #endmeeting kthxbye! | 15:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 15:39 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 2 15:39:35 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-05-02-15.00.html | 15:39 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-05-02-15.00.txt | 15:39 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-05-02-15.00.log.html | 15:39 |
| nijaba | thanks jd | 15:39 |
| jd__ | thanks everybody :) | 15:39 |
| flwang | thanks jd__ | 15:39 |
| nijaba | another fine meeting with the ceilometer team | 15:40 |
| jd__ | see you next week for an awesome meeting run by the amazing dhellmann | 15:40 |
| sandywalsh | thanks y'all! code code code! | 15:40 |
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| dhellmann | and review, review, review! | 15:40 |
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| flwang | haha | 15:40 |
| * jd__ reviewing :} | 15:40 | |
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| nijaba | jd enjoy your time off | 15:40 |
| sandywalsh | ah, right, will try to allocate time in the week to get that done. | 15:40 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting test | 15:52 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 2 15:52:38 2013 UTC. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:52 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: test)" | 15:52 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'test' | 15:52 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 15:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 15:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 2 15:52:58 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/test/2013/test.2013-05-02-15.52.html | 15:53 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/test/2013/test.2013-05-02-15.52.txt | 15:53 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/test/2013/test.2013-05-02-15.52.log.html | 15:53 |
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| jeblair | #help | 15:54 |
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| hyakuhei | Is bdpayne here? | 17:01 |
| davidkranz | Any one here for the qa meeting? | 17:03 |
| ravikumar_hp | hi | 17:03 |
| donaldngo_hp | hi | 17:03 |
| giulivo | hi | 17:04 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Around? | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | ya | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | #startmeeting qa | 17:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 2 17:04:27 2013 UTC. The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:04 |
| davidkranz | #startmeeting qa | 17:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:04 |
| openstack | davidkranz: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | jinx | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: you want to lead? go for it :) | 17:05 |
| davidkranz | Agenda at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting | 17:05 |
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| davidkranz | Before we get to that, I noticed in my recent stress submission that pep8 failed. | 17:05 |
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| davidkranz | There are a bunch of stacktraces in pep8 runs for tempest even when jenkins says it is ok. ANy one know about that? | 17:06 |
| jaypipes | no, not I | 17:06 |
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| davidkranz | http://logs.openstack.org/27950/1/check/gate-tempest-pep8/3105/console.html.gz | 17:06 |
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| davidkranz | Also, what do you run in a tempest dir to get all the stuff that jenkins is diong for the pep8 test? | 17:07 |
| davidkranz | I did './run_tests.sh -N -p' but that passes and jenkins is still failing pep8. | 17:08 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: looks like it failed, not succeeded... are you sure gerrit reported it a success? | 17:08 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Gerrit reported failure but I got success when I ran it before submitting. | 17:08 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: does -p in run_tests.sh actually look in the stress/ directory though? | 17:08 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Ah, perhaps that is the problem. Maybe I have to add it to some config. | 17:09 |
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| davidkranz | Let's move on. | 17:10 |
| davidkranz | Any issues with reviews? | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: I see this: | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | [flake8] | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | ignore = E125,H302,H404 | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | show-source = True | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | exclude = .git,.venv,.tox,dist,doc,openstack,*egg | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | in tox.ini | 17:10 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz: so, AFAICT, tox -> flake8 should be picking up the stress/ directory... :( | 17:11 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Then I think "new_stress" would have been included. I will have to investigate more. | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | ya | 17:11 |
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| davidkranz | Does any one have any comments about stress tests? | 17:11 |
| ravikumar_hp | davidkranz: Is it configurable parameters | 17:12 |
| ravikumar_hp | to run stress test? | 17:12 |
| ravikumar_hp | like time , # of VMs etc | 17:12 |
| davidkranz | ravikumar_hp: It could be. I haven't gone there yet. Just the basic idea was for reactions to the approach. | 17:13 |
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| davidkranz | ravikumar_hp: Right now you provide those options in each test script. | 17:13 |
| davidkranz | ravikumar_hp: There could/should be a more general configuration mechanism. | 17:14 |
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| davidkranz | #topic Blueprints | 17:14 |
| davidkranz | I will create a blueprint for stress tests. | 17:15 |
| davidkranz | Has every one looked at the blueprints and claimed those to be worked on for Havana? | 17:15 |
| afazekas | davidkranz: The stack traces probably caused by inspection or __import__ used by the "flake8". | 17:15 |
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| davidkranz | afazekas: Should I take this up with infra? | 17:16 |
| ravikumar_hp | davidkranz: I marked milestones and claimed some for our team | 17:16 |
| davidkranz | ravikumar_hp: Thanks. | 17:16 |
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| afazekas | davidkranz: yes | 17:16 |
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| davidkranz | Sean was planning to soon obsolete the blueprints that are not claimed. They can always be claimed later. | 17:17 |
| davidkranz | But we wanted a manageable number to keep track of. | 17:18 |
| afazekas | do we really need multiple blueprints for example for keystone v3 api ? | 17:19 |
| jaypipes | no | 17:19 |
| davidkranz | afazekas: They should be cleaned up. | 17:19 |
| afazekas | Do we really want blueprints just with the list of test cases ? | 17:19 |
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| davidkranz | afazekas: It it will take more than a very small effort, then yes I think we do. | 17:20 |
| davidkranz | afazekas: Part of the purpose of blueprints is to make sure there is not duplication of effort. | 17:20 |
| afazekas | Even smaller effort if you just send the patch :) | 17:20 |
| davidkranz | afazekas: Unless some one else sends it first. | 17:21 |
| davidkranz | It only takes a minute to create a blueprint. | 17:21 |
| davidkranz | There is effort in tracking blueprints though. | 17:21 |
| afazekas | The test cases in a blueprint can be done by multiple person | 17:21 |
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| davidkranz | afazekas: True, but that should be coordinated by the blueprint assignee. | 17:22 |
| davidkranz | It is work to keep track of blueprnits which brings up the next subject which was the idea to have a "PTL" for the QA project. | 17:22 |
| afazekas | How the tempest bugs fits into the picture ? | 17:22 |
| davidkranz | afazekas: I think we are talking about a fairly traditional model for tracking bugs and features. | 17:23 |
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| davidkranz | afazekas: There is a gray area of course for a few missing test cases or something like that. | 17:23 |
| davidkranz | Does any one have any thoughts about a "PTL"? | 17:24 |
| davidkranz | The idea is to have some one take on ownership of tracking bugs and blueprints. | 17:24 |
| davidkranz | And coordinating suggestions for improvements to how we do things. | 17:25 |
| davidkranz | OK, anything else to discuss today? | 17:27 |
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| jaypipes | any word on CloudCafe? | 17:29 |
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| afazekas | jaypipes: Does it have more published test cases ? | 17:30 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: not sure. hadn't last time I checked last Friday... | 17:30 |
| jaypipes | was hoping to hear from dwalleck or SamDanes | 17:31 |
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| afazekas | We should have some procedure for coopering on non-gating test tools anyway. | 17:32 |
| afazekas | For example on test cases which expects multiple node | 17:33 |
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| davidkranz | afazekas: That is really a matter of multiple groups of people agreeing to use a common infrastructure. | 17:34 |
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| davidkranz | afazekas: The ci group is working on multiple node for jenkins. | 17:34 |
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| jhenner | do you think it would be possible to add multinode to devstack? | 17:35 |
| davidkranz | mordred: ping | 17:35 |
| jhenner | I mean, would it be difficult to make devstack able to spawn vms for testing? | 17:36 |
| davidkranz | clarkb, fungi : Could one of you comment on the status of multi-node devstack in jenkins ^^^^^ | 17:37 |
| davidkranz | Guess they are all busy now. | 17:38 |
| davidkranz | I'll ping them later and see if I can find something to send out to the qa list. | 17:38 |
| giulivo | one 'not in the agenda' question | 17:39 |
| mordred | sup davidkranz | 17:39 |
| afazekas | davidkranz: thank you | 17:39 |
| giulivo | are there plans for inclusion/creation of tests revolving around heat/ceilometer ? | 17:39 |
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| davidkranz | mordred: ^^^^ discussnio about multi-node in jenkins | 17:39 |
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| mordred | great. multi-node jenkins is something I'm quite keen on having | 17:39 |
| fungi | davidkranz: i don't think there's any major status updates on multi-node devstack, but i've not been directly involved | 17:39 |
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| fungi | oh, mordred's here | 17:40 |
| davidkranz | mordred: Is the status or plan for this being tracked some where? | 17:40 |
| mordred | pleia2 is the main one working on that, but she's getting married right now | 17:40 |
| mordred | I believe so - lemme find the bug | 17:40 |
| davidkranz | giulivo: This was discussed at the summit with the heat and ceilo folks. I had a short IRC chat with heat the other day. | 17:41 |
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| afazekas | mordred: Is the currently planned the multi-node solution for spiting the test to multiple node, or to have multitude openstack cluster ? | 17:41 |
| davidkranz | giulivo: I think they will ping us when they are ready to engage. | 17:41 |
| mordred | afazekas: whose are two different things | 17:42 |
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| mordred | afazekas: splitting the test to run portions of the tempest tests on different nodes is one thing that testr will be the first step in accomplishing | 17:42 |
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| mordred | afazekas: having the cloud against which tempest is running be installed on multi-nodes is a different thing | 17:42 |
| mordred | both, I believe, are important - but have a different set of challenges. :) | 17:43 |
| * mordred cant' find the CI bug for multi-node right now - it's in there somewhere, I'll ping you with it davidkranz when I find it | 17:44 | |
| davidkranz | mordred: NP. Thanks. | 17:44 |
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| * afazekas is considering creating a test runner which can work faster on a single node | 17:45 | |
| mordred | I've also been having good chats with rainya about getting her infra guys hooked in with our infra guys, so hopefully that'll have some good results on our ability to more forward on some of these thigns | 17:45 |
| mordred | afazekas: that should be testr | 17:45 |
| mordred | I would imagine | 17:45 |
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| mordred | nova tests increased by 5x speed on my laptop when we moved to testr ... but it's not a straightforward move | 17:46 |
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| mordred | as I believe jaypipes will be more than happy to back me up on | 17:46 |
| afazekas | mordred: yes, but they CPU sensitive unittests | 17:46 |
| jaypipes | right. | 17:46 |
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| mordred | afazekas: I'm just saying- before we go off making new test runners, let's finish the current test runner migratoin that we're working on | 17:47 |
| mordred | since it's a lot of work, and there are more than one reason we want to accomplish the testr one | 17:47 |
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| afazekas | mordred: first we should place script in tempest which start the actually used runner with the actual directory structure | 17:49 |
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| afazekas | Both will be changed soon | 17:49 |
| mordred | I'm confused by what you mean | 17:50 |
| afazekas | https://github.com/openstack-infra/devstack-gate/blob/master/devstack-vm-gate.sh#L223 , https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/tempest-repo-restructure | 17:50 |
| afazekas | Now we cannot do restructure and changing the gate script at the same time, with a single commit | 17:52 |
| afazekas | The logic around L223 should be in the tempest repo | 17:52 |
| afazekas | Implemented as a ./run_tests.sh --gate | 17:52 |
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| jaypipes | afazekas: the gate does not use run_tests.sh | 17:56 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: it uses tox.ini | 17:56 |
| afazekas | it should use in the tempest case | 17:56 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: or calls nosetests directly | 17:56 |
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| afazekas | if we creating a venv we are not really using the recent python libraries | 17:56 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: no venv for tempest. | 17:57 |
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| mordred | so, I agree that the extra config of how nose is invoked there is a problem | 17:58 |
| mordred | is the restructure goig to put cli into tempest? | 17:59 |
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| jaypipes | mordred: it already is, AFAIK | 17:59 |
| mordred | k. weird. yeah - in _this_ case - I thnk a run_tests.sh should probably be used | 17:59 |
| mordred | but it should have big bold letters around it saying that it's a hack to solve historical issues | 18:00 |
| mordred | and will go away in the future once we've solvle them | 18:00 |
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| mordred | and that we all feel bad about it | 18:00 |
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| bdpayne | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:00 |
| openstack | bdpayne: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. | 18:00 |
| jaypipes | #endmeeting | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 2 18:01:06 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-05-02-17.04.html | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-05-02-17.04.txt | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-05-02-17.04.log.html | 18:01 |
| bdpayne | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 2 18:01:20 2013 UTC. The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| jaypipes | bdpayne: go for it. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:01 |
| mordred | jaypipes, afazekas: with lines 217-233 basically handled by the new script | 18:01 |
| bdpayne | thanks, sorry that I jumped the gun there | 18:01 |
| jaypipes | no worries. | 18:01 |
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| bdpayne | good morning OpenStack Security Group | 18:01 |
| bdpayne | I believe we may have some new people here today | 18:02 |
| bdpayne | let's start with a role call | 18:02 |
| bdpayne | Bryan Payne from Nebula here | 18:02 |
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| lglenden | Laura Glendenning from JHU/APL | 18:03 |
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| zzs | Zhesen Zhang from NTT i3 here | 18:03 |
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| bdpayne | ok, perhaps more will join as we go today | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | welcome to zzs, I believe this is your first meeting with us | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | let's start with an update on the hardening guide | 18:05 |
| zzs | bdpayne: yes, very glad to join the meeting | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | #topic Hardening Guide | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Hardening Guide (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:05 | |
| hartsocks | Shawn Hartsock from VMware is here BTW. | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | ah, hi hartsocks | 18:06 |
| mtesauro | Matt Tesauro from Rackspace is here | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | so we were originally aiming for the first week in June for the hardening guide | 18:06 |
| malini1 | Malini Bhandaru from Intel. Greetings | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | due to a conflict with the facilitator, we have shifted back to June 24-28 | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | that week is still tentative as we (re)lock in the physical location | 18:07 |
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| bdpayne | and work our a few more logistics | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | but things are coming together | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | if you'd like to be involved in that effort, please drop me a line | 18:07 |
| * hyakuhei is here now :) | 18:07 | |
| bdpayne | we might have another slot or two still available | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | basically, the commitment would be to fly out to the Maryland / DC area for the full week and write lots of words :-) | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | also… does anyone know of an illustrator that might be interested in helping? | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | well, if a name comes to mind, please let me know | 18:09 |
| hyakuhei | Is there are role for someone east of the atlantic to do editing/proofing/commenting while the guys working on the guide recharge overnight in the states? | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | possibly | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | I can check with the facilitator on that one | 18:09 |
| hyakuhei | Might be a clunky idea, just throwing it out there. | 18:10 |
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| bdpayne | the other person we'd love to find is a exemplar user for the guide… who can proof it, and help us understand the right tone / level of detail / etc | 18:10 |
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| bdpayne | in this case, this would be someone deploying openstack that is not a security export | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | s/export/expert | 18:10 |
| hyakuhei | Heh, that one guy OpenStack is just right for.... I think that'll be a struggle | 18:11 |
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| bdpayne | any other questions / comments on the guide? | 18:11 |
| malini1 | to be a writer, what qualifications does one need (other than flying out to MD) | 18:12 |
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| malini1 | and "deep" openstack project knowledge or just general security | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | I'm looking for a mix of security experts and openstack experts | 18:12 |
| hyakuhei | Obviously a good standard of written english is essential. As is broad experience securing or deploying openstack | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | ideally people with both | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | yeah, and the ability to write excellent english | 18:13 |
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| bdpayne | ideally with a demonstrated background (research papers, previous books, blog posts, etc) | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | we're shooting for a group of 10-15 people | 18:14 |
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| bdpayne | ok, I'll push ahead | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | #topic Core Project Improvements | 18:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Core Project Improvements (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:15 | |
| bdpayne | So I just wanted to let people know that Nebula has started down the path of putting lots of improvements into keystone | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | security improvements, specifically | 18:15 |
| hyakuhei | That's cool. | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | Ideally, OSSG would have people focused on each of the core projects | 18:15 |
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| rellerreller | Do you have examples? | 18:16 |
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| hyakuhei | One of the suggestions I was going to make was that the OSSG start a review of 'security' tagged issues in LP without patches against them and where we can, attempt to patch | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | rellerreller We have an embargoed bug report atm | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | And a long queue to work through of issues that we are fixing and/or sending upstream | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | Indeed | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | there's two approaches to take here | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | not mutually exclusive at all | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | 1) Watch and address things tagged as security | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | For this, OpenStack can now tag both bugs and pull requests with a security impact tag | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | OSSG members should be watching for this (notification comes to the openstack-security list) | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | And actively reviewing, fixing, improving | 18:18 |
| hyakuhei | ^ Which is already happening to some extent | 18:18 |
| uvirtbot | hyakuhei: Error: "Which" is not a valid command. | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | heh | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | yes, it is | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | but we could always use more eyes and hands there | 18:19 |
| hyakuhei | Absolutely, consider my interuption a '+1' :P | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | 2) Get a team of people to focus on reviewing and improving code in the core projects | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | (I was just laughing at the bot) | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | this is what Nebula is now doing with Keystone | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | I would encourage other people here that have security teams to coordinate by picking another core project and doing the same | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | What do you guys think… anyone where doing (1) or (2) already, or willing to start helping? | 18:20 |
| hyakuhei | I think that's a good idea. I've been reasonably involved in some Nova stuff recently but would need to engage with our tech leads to work out where we can help | 18:21 |
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| malini1 | I have been reviewing code, and am closely involved with key-manager, the interest there stemming from supporting object/volume encryption | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | sounds good | 18:22 |
| hyakuhei | Sounds like a volunteer for Swift _and_ Cinder | 18:22 |
| hyakuhei | :) | 18:22 |
| malini1 | the key manager can hold certificates, which would support encrypted rpc communication | 18:22 |
| hyakuhei | Heh, so encrypted RPC is a whole other (messy) conversation | 18:23 |
| malini1 | secure rpc came up at the last design summit | 18:23 |
| hyakuhei | a lots | 18:23 |
| hyakuhei | s/lots/lot | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | hartsocks Would VMWare be able to support such reviews on the project formerly known as Quantum? | 18:23 |
| malini1 | :-) yes, messy | 18:23 |
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| bdpayne | ok, we can move forward.. let's discuss the RPC and key manager stuff… and another else going on right now | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | #topic Open Discussion | 18:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:24 | |
| bdpayne | malini1 any updates on the key manager work? | 18:24 |
| hyakuhei | I'm very concerned by the lack of attestation being discussed in any of the RPC conversations | 18:25 |
| malini1 | we are going with Rackspace's cloudkeep project, "barbican" | 18:25 |
| malini1 | more detailed blueprints have been developed | 18:26 |
| hyakuhei | Lots of discussion regarding signing or encryption but little on how to ensure that the correct keys/certs are shared with the right parties. | 18:26 |
| rellerreller | They released an API today | 18:26 |
| hyakuhei | That's exciting | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | API for? | 18:26 |
| rellerreller | I believe it is on their wiki page, but I have not seen it yet. I just saw an email about it. | 18:26 |
| rellerreller | The CloudKeep API | 18:26 |
| malini1 | JHU-APL (John Hopkins advanced physics lab) folks are working on volume encryption, so first partners for integration | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | ah, ok | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | so if the key manager stuff moving forward nicely? or is further help needed from OSSG? | 18:27 |
| rellerreller | I feel like the JHUAPL side is moving along nicely | 18:28 |
| malini1 | first pass, ability to save a secret and retrieve it, access control via keystone | 18:28 |
| malini1 | this is symmetric keys | 18:28 |
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| malini1 | i would say key manager stuff moving along nicely,, goal is to have enough to support volume encryption by july 18 | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | ok, would love to stay posted here on the progress… I suspect lots of people are eager to use this functionality | 18:29 |
| malini1 | that date is to apply for incubation and be part of a couple of H releases to qualify | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | hyakuhei anything needed from the group on the RPC discussions? beyond what you mentioned above? | 18:29 |
| malini1 | Rackspace has committed quite a few people and we have daily status meetings 10-30 mins long | 18:30 |
| malini1 | is there is action | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | great! | 18:30 |
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| hyakuhei | I'd like it if some of the APL folks could weigh in on the RPC stuff | 18:30 |
| hyakuhei | There's some big picture elements that are getting missed right now I think | 18:31 |
| lglenden | I'll pull together some comments from people here | 18:31 |
| malini1 | Let us pring the APL folks, Lawrence in particular, to meet NSA needs wants all communication between endpoints secure | 18:31 |
| bdpayne | excellent, thanks | 18:31 |
| malini1 | else man in the middle | 18:31 |
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| bdpayne | ok, anything else for today? | 18:32 |
| bdpayne | we're already a touch over time ;-) | 18:32 |
| bdpayne | ok, thanks everyone! | 18:32 |
| bdpayne | #endmeeting | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 18:32 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 2 18:32:37 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:32 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-05-02-18.01.html | 18:32 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-05-02-18.01.txt | 18:32 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-05-02-18.01.log.html | 18:32 |
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| harlowja | #startmeeting OpenStack Orchestration Group | 19:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 2 19:59:09 2013 UTC. The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Orchestration Group)" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_orchestration_group' | 19:59 |
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| harlowja | howdy all :) | 20:00 |
| changbl | hello | 20:00 |
| kebray | hello | 20:00 |
| harlowja | howday! | 20:00 |
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| harlowja | so i don't have much of an agenda, since this is the first time this meeting has been held in a long time | 20:01 |
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| harlowja | but i was thinking it might be useful to talk about some of the primitivies we need for orchestration/workflow like stuff, that might be useful, i have ideas here and other ideas might be useful | 20:02 |
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| maoy | hi | 20:02 |
| harlowja | howdy | 20:03 |
| changbl | what kind of primitives? | 20:03 |
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| maoy | i'm on another call. :( | 20:03 |
| harlowja | #topic workflow primitives | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "workflow primitives (Meeting topic: OpenStack Orchestration Group)" | 20:03 | |
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| harlowja | so primitivies in the fashion of things that are needed to accomplish workflows, like u could think of a task object as being one of those | 20:04 |
| harlowja | a lock primitive could be another | 20:04 |
| harlowja | and then workflow patterns that build ontop of tasks could be another | 20:05 |
| harlowja | a task log could be another one | 20:05 |
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| harlowja | the workflows that exist in nova could then be refactored to use said patterns (slowly but surely) | 20:06 |
| harlowja | and then once refactored (or during refactoring) the workflows can be moved up to say conductor | 20:06 |
| changbl | i see | 20:06 |
| harlowja | *for workflows that make sense* | 20:06 |
| harlowja | does that make sense? thoughts? | 20:06 |
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| harlowja | the discussions happening right now on the ML are releated to all of this, so thats great that we have said discussions | 20:07 |
| harlowja | and thanks changbl your paper was very nice reading last night | 20:07 |
| changbl | no problem:) | 20:07 |
| changbl | there are some discussions about DB vs ZK on the mailing list, seems to me these primitive are targeted for both right? | 20:08 |
| harlowja | if possible that might be nice | 20:08 |
| hub_cap | id think it should try to target both | 20:08 |
| hub_cap | not everyone will want zk as a hard req | 20:08 |
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| harlowja | i would almost say the task and workflows are not connected to the actually thing doing the workflow | 20:09 |
| hub_cap | although it might not be "that easy" | 20:09 |
| hub_cap | +1 harlowja | 20:09 |
| changbl | ditto | 20:09 |
| kebray | Yes, +1 | 20:09 |
| harlowja | the ML discussions are a little bit about the thing, which is also very important | 20:09 |
| harlowja | but there are primitives and refactoring that could occur without knowing what the thing is (at this stage) | 20:09 |
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| randallburt | agreed. Like everything else, shouldn't that be pluggable? | 20:10 |
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| hub_cap | heh, flag driven development | 20:10 |
| harlowja | randallburt yes, i think so, its just connecting at the right layer of abstraction where both are possible, that may not be so bad | 20:10 |
| harlowja | the right layer is always the tricky part :) | 20:11 |
| hub_cap | maybe even just target _no_ zk at first, get a rough pass done, and add the flare and fanfare in later? | 20:11 |
| changbl | +1 | 20:11 |
| maoy | i was planning to respond to the mailing list on zk vs db | 20:11 |
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| changbl | do we have any design or doc of which primitives we need? | 20:11 |
| maoy | but i guess i can say it here.. | 20:12 |
| harlowja | hub_cap idk, i think if there are enough interested parties that we could do both, having 2 impls makes sure the layer of abstraction actually makes sense | 20:12 |
| randallburt | sorry, I'm late to the party. DB? | 20:12 |
| randallburt | +1 to multiple (at least 2) initially depending on interest | 20:12 |
| harlowja | changbl i don't have a wiki yet on those, although i can start one if thats wanted | 20:12 |
| hub_cap | okey harlowja... as long as 1 doesnt muck w/ the other in terms of design | 20:12 |
| maoy | i guess we are talking about a pluggable backend for a few primitives, one of which depends on zookeeper, the other one on database.. | 20:12 |
| hub_cap | i want to use zk, dont get me wrong, i just dont want a hard dep on it... | 20:13 |
| harlowja | hub_cap well thats where having 2 impls makes sure that u make it so they don't much, with 1 u get sloppy and usually expose the underlying stuff | 20:13 |
| maoy | hub_cap: agreed | 20:13 |
| harlowja | #action harlowja make primitivie wiki | 20:13 |
| maoy | i actually think a in-memory backend is more appropriate. | 20:14 |
| hub_cap | harlowja: cant necessarily disagree there. +1 to making the wiki and outlining it well | 20:14 |
| maoy | not all backend needs to have HA, persistency, and all that fancy stuff | 20:14 |
| adrian_otto | hub_cap: I agree on the ZK dependency issue | 20:14 |
| harlowja | maoy agreed, 3 impls makes the api abstraction even better :) | 20:14 |
| randallburt | do I hear four? | 20:14 |
| harlowja | lol | 20:14 |
| changbl | :) | 20:14 |
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| maoy | i'm not a big fan on db backend since it makes upgrading harder perhaps | 20:15 |
| changbl | and more load on DB... | 20:15 |
| maoy | changbl: agree. | 20:15 |
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| harlowja | agreed, but if we do it right, maybe we can have each path work (although i think there will be certain fundamental primitives that won't be easily possible with a DB) | 20:16 |
| maoy | many cases where you need rollback doesn't really come from crashes. unexpected errors are more likely. even if we don't keep things persistent/HA, there are still quite some value. | 20:16 |
| randallburt | well, in memory has issues as well around recovery and failover, but they are options that let someone devstack and watch it go for example | 20:16 |
| hub_cap | thats almost why id like to try it w/o zk at first harlowja heh | 20:16 |
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| adrian_otto | randallburt: the in-memory allows the implementor to take shortcuts around reliability. If we offer that, the implementation better be transactional. | 20:18 |
| harlowja | so all seems good, i think there is agreed upon stuff that says we want primitives with some backends | 20:18 |
| harlowja | *backends >= 2 | 20:18 |
| randallburt | lol | 20:18 |
| harlowja | thats progress! | 20:18 |
| hub_cap | tru | 20:18 |
| maoy | and one of the backends doesn't depend on zk. :) | 20:18 |
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| hub_cap | ya everyone will likely use the zk backend for real world, we know that ;) | 20:19 |
| harlowja | maoy well both of them can't or thats just 1 zk backend :-P | 20:19 |
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| harlowja | so very cool, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27869/ was a piece i am working on, if others want to add in also, thats cool | 20:19 |
| harlowja | but i'll write up a twiki with some more of this, and we can get the best primitive set possible, just i think we have to avoid getting to complex (since then we will not accomplish much) | 20:20 |
| maoy | since we are in nova, i'd also discuss which functions we want to put under this transactional workflow management | 20:20 |
| hub_cap | harlowja: which _real_ example are u planning on tackling first (just curious, if its derailing, we can chat privately) | 20:20 |
| harlowja | maoy hub_cap your questions i think are similar :) | 20:20 |
| hub_cap | haha ya seems so | 20:21 |
| kebray | harlowja, is your work direct in Nova or in reusable Oslo library code? | 20:21 |
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| maoy | i'd considering sth like migration/resize | 20:21 |
| harlowja | kebray i see no reason why it can't be put into oslo if we get the primitivies right | 20:21 |
| harlowja | *and i would hope it does | 20:21 |
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| kebray | k.. You know why I'm asking. I think Heat will need this. | 20:21 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:21 |
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| jaybuff1 | harlowja: have you looked at doing this without zookeeper? | 20:22 |
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| kebray | Not necessarily for Havana… but, as stack templates become more complex. | 20:22 |
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| harlowja | jaybuff i've thought about it, but not a large part of my brain power was directed to that | 20:22 |
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| harlowja | maoy hub_cap so lets talk about the functions to tackle, the interesting goodies there :-p | 20:22 |
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| harlowja | #topic functions to attack! | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "functions to attack! (Meeting topic: OpenStack Orchestration Group)" | 20:23 | |
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| hub_cap | nice topic | 20:23 |
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| harlowja | :) | 20:23 |
| jaybuff | harlowja: we (me and mercer at Yahoo) did orchestration/workflow with gearbox (github.com/coryb/gearbox) and we didn't have any shared state | 20:23 |
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| jaybuff | well, i guess that's not true, we had an sql database | 20:23 |
| harlowja | jaybuff agreed, gearman/gearbox might be possible | 20:23 |
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| harlowja | maybe someday in the future, who knows :) | 20:24 |
| harlowja | so back to the functions to attack question | 20:24 |
| jaybuff | sorry, didn't mean to derail | 20:24 |
| harlowja | np | 20:24 |
| hub_cap | i vote teh hardest most complex one first! | 20:24 |
| harlowja | all cool jaybuff | 20:24 |
| harlowja | so resize/migrate do fit into that path | 20:24 |
| harlowja | *as they are the most back and forth ones | 20:24 |
| harlowja | pre, post, .. stages | 20:25 |
| hub_cap | wasnt there talk about a big code refactor for those tho? | 20:25 |
| hub_cap | to make them more similar rather than super distinct | 20:25 |
| harlowja | yes, i think john from IBM and tiagi i believe are doing some stuff there | 20:25 |
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| harlowja | i'd like to allow them to use the same primititives that we want to move other functions to if possible, which is why having a nice primitive base would be useful | 20:26 |
| harlowja | *that would be my ideal* | 20:26 |
| hub_cap | ah ic | 20:26 |
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| harlowja | so that may be whose working on those paths, although i don't know many details | 20:26 |
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| hub_cap | that might be hard for u to tackle since others are touching the code a good bit | 20:27 |
| harlowja | i do though think that before we alter functional paths that we need to make something like https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TheBetterPathToLiveMigrationResizing | 20:27 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TheBetterPathToLiveMigrationResizing | 20:27 |
| harlowja | thoughts? | 20:27 |
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| changbl | harlowja agree | 20:28 |
| hub_cap | couldnt hurt ;) | 20:28 |
| harlowja | i think we have to be pretty darn careful about knowing the current path before and after altering, else things may go crazy :) | 20:28 |
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| harlowja | so hub_cap in the prototype that the ntt folks are working on, they have adjusted the run_instance path | 20:28 |
| harlowja | *as an example for the prototype* | 20:28 |
| harlowja | that one is like the other big one behind resize/migrate | 20:29 |
| hub_cap | heh ya thats what our flawless, test 99% of the ecosystem, tests are for right harlowja? | 20:29 |
| hub_cap | ya id put my bets on that one for a first run | 20:29 |
| hub_cap | a instance failure to me, at startup, for a small bug | 20:29 |
| harlowja | hub_cap not for me :( | 20:29 |
| hub_cap | is better than a resize failure causing downtime | 20:29 |
| hub_cap | boo | 20:29 |
| harlowja | ha | 20:29 |
| nsavin | why not to start with some easy and more used in rl like spawn new instance ? \ | 20:29 |
| harlowja | for those that are interested | 20:30 |
| harlowja | #link https://github.com/yahoo/NovaOrc/blob/master/nova/orc/manager.py#L216 | 20:30 |
| harlowja | i am working with those guys to get that code up, at least so its reviewable and all that | 20:30 |
| hub_cap | i cant help but think about wow when i see NovaOrc | 20:30 |
| harlowja | it could be the first stab at the spawn new instance workflow | 20:31 |
| changbl | nsavin: i think it can be easily resolved with periodic checking/repairing | 20:31 |
| maoy | i think working on start-instance could wait for two reasons. | 20:31 |
| harlowja | maoy to much change on a critical path? | 20:31 |
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| maoy | one: it's a code path that has been used a lot and debugged a lot, and on a critical path. | 20:31 |
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| maoy | two: if start instance fails, the user has the choice to start another one, unlike resize/migrate | 20:32 |
| maoy | is there a blueprint for https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TheBetterPathToLiveMigrationResizing? who's working on it? | 20:32 |
| harlowja | maoy so dansmith has one, i think its called unified path to resizing/migration | 20:33 |
| hub_cap | see id think that since its been used/debugged a lot, there would be a good test harness around it.. making it easier to test :) | 20:33 |
| harlowja | hub_cap i am sorta in the same mind set, if it has all those features, then that means we can be pretty sure that we either screwed it up or not | 20:33 |
| harlowja | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/unified-migrations | 20:33 |
| hub_cap | ya.. to me, especially after the unification of migrations, there could be painful, subtle bugs | 20:33 |
| hub_cap | and this might compound the problem... possibly? | 20:34 |
| harlowja | maoy i understand your one, two, just thinking that if those code paths aren't being actively 'modified' that it might be a good time to attempt to rework at least pieces of it | 20:34 |
| maoy | hub_cap: isn't that the reason why we need txn orchestration to deal with unexpected bugs/problems? | 20:34 |
| hub_cap | sure maoy, but not to introduce them durin the _first_ impl of it | 20:34 |
| maoy | harlowja hub_cap good pts | 20:35 |
| harlowja | maoy i also think it helps reorganize the code into things like 'task objects' that are easier to understand, easier to review | 20:35 |
| harlowja | but i can understand the 'intimitation' changing criticial paths can cause | 20:35 |
| harlowja | *which is why we have to tread carefully | 20:36 |
| hub_cap | either way, its likely gonna rip up whatever path you choose :) | 20:36 |
| harlowja | although i'd like to get john/tiagi to work with us when they are doing resize/migrate so that we can share the same primtives ( i hope) | 20:36 |
| hub_cap | im sure idempotency is not thought of in a 300+ line multi branch if stmt | 20:36 |
| hub_cap | harlowja: thats not a bad idea | 20:37 |
| harlowja | hub_cap sadly u are right | 20:37 |
| maoy | the other problem i've been having is to not able to terminate/override previously running tasks that got stuck. | 20:37 |
| harlowja | maoy so u mean cancellation or something different? | 20:37 |
| maoy | harlowja: on that line. | 20:37 |
| maoy | along that line | 20:37 |
| maoy | e.g. we could change the reboot API behavior to "cancel whatever you are running which likely is stuck and reboot it". | 20:38 |
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| changbl | maoy +1 | 20:38 |
| harlowja | maoy as long its not say stuck on 'run_instance' right? | 20:38 |
| maoy | if it's too hard for the first step, something like "cancel the onging reboot and retry reboot" | 20:39 |
| maoy | harlowja: of coz. :) | 20:39 |
| harlowja | maoy i totally agree, i put some of this up on my wiki, but feel free to add more ideas | 20:39 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StructuredStateManagementDetails#Cancellation | 20:39 |
| harlowja | maoy i think yours is almost more of preemption | 20:39 |
| harlowja | which could get complex quickly :) | 20:40 |
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| harlowja | *maybe add a premption section? | 20:40 |
| maoy | harlowja: ideally it's both preemption and cancellation i think. | 20:40 |
| harlowja | sure, they are releated | 20:41 |
| maoy | i think people aren't as scary if we mess with reboot logic | 20:41 |
| harlowja | maoy that could be, do u think it would expose enough usefulness there? | 20:41 |
| maoy | if we rollback a run instance to delete a vm, but it turns out we shouldn't, then people could get scared.. | 20:41 |
| hub_cap | heh | 20:41 |
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| changbl | maoy agree | 20:42 |
| kebray | harlowja: are there additional agenda items? | 20:42 |
| harlowja | so maoy that could be an approach, maybe we can have a list of functions that we think we can tackle, what some of the issues with them might be (as u said, rolling back a runinstance flow deleting things) | 20:42 |
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| harlowja | kebray not really, sorta ad-hoc agenda that i am making up as we go :) | 20:42 |
| hub_cap | this will turn into a big FSM quickly talking about canncelations (not of the pasta kind) | 20:42 |
| hub_cap | man i cant spell | 20:42 |
| hub_cap | shoud we try to tackle restarts before we do cancellations? | 20:43 |
| hub_cap | as in, task or service died, redo from X | 20:43 |
| kebray | harlowja: Ok.. wasn't sure if some of the brainstorming would be better moved to mailing list. I have an item to propose: Perhaps consider renaming this something other than Orchestration? | 20:43 |
| nsavin | hub_cap: yes, if task resumeable | 20:43 |
| harlowja | kebray sure sure, does that work with everyone, anyone want to voluneteer to start documenting the different workflows we could alter, and possibly the benefits/drawbacks of altering said workflow | 20:44 |
| hub_cap | def nsavin | 20:44 |
| harlowja | having said document would make it easy for others to start picking up those workflows as things to do | 20:44 |
| harlowja | thoughts? | 20:44 |
| harlowja | i volunteer harlowja | 20:45 |
| harlowja | #action josh to start workflow path wiki :) | 20:45 |
| hub_cap | +1 | 20:45 |
| nsavin | +1 | 20:45 |
| changbl | :) | 20:45 |
| hub_cap | harlowja: i volunteer to review | 20:45 |
| harlowja | sweet! | 20:45 |
| hub_cap | plz send updates | 20:45 |
| harlowja | hub_cap thanks | 20:45 |
| harlowja | #topic the name of 'it' | 20:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "the name of 'it' (Meeting topic: OpenStack Orchestration Group)" | 20:45 | |
| harlowja | so this is a interesting question | 20:46 |
| kebray | naming proposal: Task System Library, or Task Management library. Workflow is broadly used in industry as a Business Process Management term, coordinating task execution across large disparate systems. Orchestration is the purpose of Heat, which is different than Workflow and at a higher level than Task Management, which is something Heat could leverage to do Orchestration. | 20:46 |
| adrian_otto | +1 | 20:46 |
| nsavin | harlowja: one good name already choosen unfort - "conductor" :D | 20:46 |
| harlowja | there is conductor (right now with functionality for db-proxy), there is 'orchestrator', there is ... | 20:46 |
| harlowja | kebray did u type that all right now, u so quick ;) | 20:46 |
| hub_cap | ya conductor should be renamed to "db-on-behalf-of" | 20:46 |
| hub_cap | harlowja: kebray types 800wpm :) | 20:46 |
| harlowja | awesome! | 20:47 |
| kebray | 80wpm actually ;-) | 20:47 |
| maoy | hehe. English vocabulary is not enough! | 20:47 |
| harlowja | so i think there is 2 things that could be named | 20:47 |
| kebray | but I like the extra zero hub_cap gave me. | 20:47 |
| harlowja | the base library (which forms in nova) - convection could be it? | 20:47 |
| adrian_otto | We need to drop the terminology of Orchestration | 20:47 |
| harlowja | but i don't want to take over the heat name | 20:47 |
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| hub_cap | im good at being...err giving... 0s | 20:48 |
| harlowja | adrian_otto so i started calling stuff state management engines | 20:48 |
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| harlowja | but thats not so sexy | 20:48 |
| adrian_otto | yes, that's more accurate | 20:48 |
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| hub_cap | hehe hoard | 20:48 |
| maoy | or task management engines.. | 20:48 |
| harlowja | conductor might be a useful name, as long as we can get some of the conductor guys to help us understand how this functionality might fit in there | 20:49 |
| hub_cap | managed by the zookeeper | 20:49 |
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| harlowja | TME for short, ha | 20:49 |
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| maoy | that reminds me another thing to discuss | 20:49 |
| nsavin | tss! several backends for sure :) | 20:49 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:49 |
| maoy | where does this TME run | 20:49 |
| kebray | I like having Task somewhere in the name.. it reflects what is actually will handle. | 20:49 |
| hub_cap | heh | 20:49 |
| harlowja | ah maoy good question :) | 20:49 |
| harlowja | maoy maybe that one can go on the ML? | 20:50 |
| adrian_otto | the scope of execution needs at least 3 supported contexts: | 20:50 |
| maoy | sure. but doesn't hurt to talk a bit here. | 20:50 |
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| harlowja | maoy kk | 20:50 |
| hub_cap | how bout flow :) | 20:50 |
| adrian_otto | 1) Within OpenStack, such as executing within Heat | 20:50 |
| harlowja | * i have visions of the insurance sales lady flow | 20:50 |
| hub_cap | HA | 20:50 |
| harlowja | but flow might not be so bad | 20:51 |
| adrian_otto | 2) Within the task system in a limited control (like calling API services only) | 20:51 |
| adrian_otto | 3) In a container, such as within a specified VM that the caller is authorized to use/create | 20:51 |
| maoy | flow sounds like network 5 tuple stuff' | 20:51 |
| nsavin | taskflow ? (so with word "Task" as well :) ) | 20:51 |
| hub_cap | taskflow is decent | 20:52 |
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| maoy | nsavin: i like that. | 20:52 |
| adrian_otto | taskflow++ | 20:52 |
| maoy | so still tme? | 20:52 |
| harlowja | adrian_otto sure, so there is what i would call the core primitive library that 1,2,3 would use, then there is the name of 2 (conductor, idk?) | 20:52 |
| maoy | :) | 20:52 |
| kebray | taskflow++ | 20:52 |
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| hub_cap | ok so i want to use taskflow in reddwarf | 20:52 |
| harlowja | hub_cap to bad, haha | 20:52 |
| harlowja | j/k | 20:52 |
| hub_cap | HA | 20:52 |
| hub_cap | we only have a few min left, but shoudl we maybe talk about makign it distinct from nova? | 20:53 |
| adrian_otto | hub_cap: yes you do | 20:53 |
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| adrian_otto | adn heat will use it for sure, and I hear from at least one Cinder dev that they will use it. | 20:53 |
| harlowja | hub_cap i think that is where if we can get some thing into oslo that might help | 20:53 |
| harlowja | taskflow directory in oslo? | 20:53 |
| hub_cap | id prefer to put it there to start if possible... | 20:53 |
| harlowja | but i just worry that if we don't prove it first somewhere (nova?) that it might be a crappy library | 20:53 |
| hub_cap | then my team could help contribute to it easier | 20:54 |
| harlowja | hub_cap agreed | 20:54 |
| hub_cap | well every library in oslo starts out crappy heh | 20:54 |
| harlowja | lol | 20:54 |
| hub_cap | then it gets awesome | 20:54 |
| harlowja | *lets keep the trend | 20:54 |
| harlowja | ha | 20:54 |
| hub_cap | when lots of groups use it | 20:54 |
| hub_cap | or it totally rots | 20:54 |
| harlowja | hub_cap agreed, i can get markmc to see what he thinks | 20:54 |
| maoy | imo, for the very first baby step, if we could find one function in nova (e.g. migration, or reboot, whatever), convert the procedure to taskflow with log and rollback, with a in mem backend, runs locally on nova-compute, i'm happy | 20:54 |
| kebray | If there is enough mailing list support for it across-projects, I'm hopeful we can incubate straight in oslo.. how do we make that happen? | 20:54 |
| randallburt | well the problem in the original change remains, so start in oslo and follow up with deps in nova and maybe heat | 20:54 |
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| hub_cap | kebray: likely we talk to markmc is my guess | 20:55 |
| harlowja | maoy that might be acceptable, except i know others reallly really want this to help elsewhere also | 20:55 |
| harlowja | so much desire to do this | 20:55 |
| changbl | maoy +1 | 20:55 |
| hub_cap | harlowja: it would be a _much_ easier sell to my team if it started in oslo | 20:55 |
| maoy | harlowja: i understand.. but it has to start frmo somewhere | 20:55 |
| adrian_otto | why? | 20:55 |
| harlowja | maoy so i think to kebray hub_cap if it could start in oslo then it could gain immediate usage in 1+ projects | 20:56 |
| hub_cap | adrian_otto: directed to me? | 20:56 |
| harlowja | instead of just start in 1 and move to oslo | 20:56 |
| adrian_otto | is there no precedent for starting a new library in Oslo? | 20:56 |
| harlowja | i am not aware of one, but we are burning new ground here, so might as well | 20:56 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:56 |
| hub_cap | not really, the libs there started _from_ stuff thats was copy/pasta'd from > 1 project | 20:56 |
| adrian_otto | I think that's where this belongs | 20:56 |
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| harlowja | i'd like to get as much usage as we can (it just gets better/more ripe with usage) | 20:57 |
| harlowja | *not rotten, ripe! | 20:57 |
| harlowja | lol | 20:57 |
| hub_cap | heh +1 | 20:57 |
| adrian_otto | I'm painfully aware that OpenStack does not have a clear starting point for things like this that are definitely general purpose utilities that multiple projects will consume | 20:57 |
| harlowja | so can we start one? | 20:57 |
| adrian_otto | Who is PTL for Oslo? | 20:57 |
| hub_cap | markmc i beleive | 20:57 |
| hub_cap | god i cant spell | 20:57 |
| harlowja | i think its markmc (from redhat) | 20:57 |
| adrian_otto | is he present? | 20:58 |
| hub_cap | nope hes not in the us | 20:58 |
| harlowja | he's probably sleeping | 20:58 |
| hub_cap | he is offline most late aftn's | 20:58 |
| adrian_otto | ok, let's reach out to him and request guidance. | 20:58 |
| hub_cap | def | 20:58 |
| harlowja | #action adrian_otto reach out to markmc | 20:58 |
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| harlowja | is that fine? :) | 20:58 |
| maoy | q: what other projects are you guys talking about? | 20:58 |
| hub_cap | its official | 20:58 |
| maoy | heat? | 20:58 |
| hub_cap | maoy: reddwarf for one | 20:58 |
| adrian_otto | is it presumptuous to assume that the rest of this group thinks this should start in Oslo? | 20:58 |
| hub_cap | resizes are complicated in reddwarf, they require nova + additional things to database configuration files, db restarts etc.. | 20:59 |
| maoy | hub_cap: interesting. i haven't looked at it though. | 20:59 |
| randallburt | heat, nova, possibly cinder iirc | 20:59 |
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| devananda | having missed almost all the meeting, imbw but taskflow sounds potentially interesting to ironic as well | 20:59 |
| randallburt | oh and reddwarf | 20:59 |
| adrian_otto | Cinder + Heat + Nova + RedDwarf + EventScheduler (assuming that becomes something) | 20:59 |
| harlowja | i am conflicted there a little, haha, i agree that it should be as general as possible, but if made to general, it might not be useful in any of the projects, but its hard to tell this early | 20:59 |
| maoy | if we have adovates from each project, i don't see problem at all starting this in Oslo | 20:59 |
| hub_cap | hi devananda! are we stepping on your meeting? | 20:59 |
| harlowja | so i will believe that we can do it, so i say might as well try :) | 20:59 |
| devananda | eg, do x, y, and z before provisioning this node | 20:59 |
| harlowja | oh crap | 20:59 |
| devananda | hub_cap: nope! i'm joining yours :) | 20:59 |
| hub_cap | sweet | 21:00 |
| harlowja | times up :) | 21:00 |
| hub_cap | lol | 21:00 |
| adrian_otto | I will email markmc | 21:00 |
| harlowja | so can we get the potential people to speak up also from different projects | 21:00 |
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| hub_cap | good for u to end on time harlowja | 21:00 |
| harlowja | i think that will as maoy said def help | 21:00 |
| russellb | will need to wrap this up | 21:00 |
| harlowja | kk | 21:00 |
| harlowja | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 2 21:00:42 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| russellb | have another meeting in here at 2100 UTC | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_orchestration_group/2013/openstack_orchestration_group.2013-05-02-19.59.html | 21:00 |
| russellb | thanks! | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_orchestration_group/2013/openstack_orchestration_group.2013-05-02-19.59.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_orchestration_group/2013/openstack_orchestration_group.2013-05-02-19.59.log.html | 21:00 |
| harlowja | and thats how the cookie crumbles | 21:00 |
| harlowja | lol | 21:00 |
| adrian_otto | tx | 21:01 |
| harlowja | *great work all* :) | 21:01 |
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| * russellb gives the room a minute to settle before starting the next one | 21:01 | |
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| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 21:02 |
| comstud | oh hai | 21:02 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 2 21:02:15 2013 UTC. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:02 |
| russellb | well hello nova friends! | 21:02 |
| russellb | who's around to chat? | 21:02 |
| alaski | hi! | 21:02 |
| comstud | why hello there | 21:02 |
| beagles | howdy | 21:02 |
| cburgess | greetings | 21:02 |
| senhuang | russellb: hello | 21:02 |
| dripton | hi | 21:02 |
| cyeoh | hi | 21:02 |
| dansmith | <-- | 21:02 |
| n0ano | o/ | 21:02 |
| GheRivero | o/ | 21:02 |
| comstud | o/ | 21:02 |
| senhuang | o/ | 21:02 |
| harlowja | yo | 21:02 |
| beagles | or.. | 21:02 |
| beagles | whatcha at | 21:03 |
| russellb | nice, lots of people | 21:03 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova | 21:03 |
| devananda | \o | 21:03 |
| russellb | #topic blueprints | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:03 | |
| maoy | me | 21:03 |
| russellb | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/havana | 21:03 |
| russellb | We have 52 blueprints on the havana roadmap | 21:03 |
| mikal | Hi | 21:03 |
| russellb | nice work! thanks for everyone's help with getting this in shape | 21:03 |
| russellb | is there anything known to be missing from this list that people here are planning to work on? | 21:04 |
| timello | o/ | 21:04 |
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| mikal | russellb: the periodic tasks reworking is missing, I'll fix that | 21:04 |
| russellb | mikal: ah yes, i had that on my list to ask you about | 21:04 |
| senhuang | we are working on a group api extension | 21:04 |
| russellb | senhuang: group scheduling stuff? | 21:04 |
| devananda | russellb: i just realized there's not actualy a BP for the nova->ironic split. should there be (assuming that is approved)? | 21:04 |
| russellb | senhuang: vm-ensembles is on there ... i think? | 21:04 |
| harlowja | well the taskflow stuff that i was going to help drive is missing, its still being talked about though | 21:04 |
| mikal | russellb: I should probably add deferred instance file delete too | 21:05 |
| russellb | devananda: yes | 21:05 |
| senhuang | rusellb: yes. gary, alex and i have discussed adding a new api extenstion to nova | 21:05 |
| devananda | k. /me creates it | 21:05 |
| russellb | devananda: maybe just call the nova blueprint deprecate-baremetal-driver? | 21:05 |
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| russellb | mikal: indeed | 21:05 |
| comstud | 52... 3 per week! | 21:05 |
| harlowja | :) | 21:05 |
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| harlowja | comstud u can do it all | 21:05 |
| cburgess | mikal: Deffered instance file delete? | 21:05 |
| comstud | no | 21:05 |
| senhuang | russellb: this api extension will allow users/tenants request a group of instances and specify the relationship among them | 21:05 |
| russellb | comstud: we implemented a bit over 60 for grizzly | 21:05 |
| comstud | cool | 21:06 |
| mikal | cburgess: mothballing and NFS instance storage both need to be able to defer deleting instance files | 21:06 |
| russellb | senhuang: ok, so can we just update the description of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vm-ensembles for that? | 21:06 |
| russellb | senhuang: also need an idea of when you guys think that will be ready for review/merging | 21:06 |
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| russellb | right now it's not on the havana list | 21:06 |
| mikal | cburgess: http://www.stillhq.com/openstack/havana/000002.html (look for the deferred instance delete heading) | 21:06 |
| senhuang | russellb: we are planning to have a separate blue print | 21:06 |
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| senhuang | russellb: will be ready next for review/comments | 21:06 |
| russellb | senhuang: ok, well just ping me later once you have stuff ready. they need to be assigned and have a target milestone set, and then i'll put it in the havana plan | 21:07 |
| hartsocks | Hey, sorry I'm late. | 21:07 |
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| russellb | goal was to have this as close to complete my this coming tuesday as we can | 21:07 |
| senhuang | rusellb: will do. | 21:07 |
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| russellb | quick notes for new blueprints if you're filing them ... set an assignee, set a target milestone (havana-1, 2, 3), and propose for the 'havana' series, then it goes into my queue to review | 21:07 |
| harlowja | russellb for the task management stuff which is still under a little flux are u thinking to keep that out of the offical list for now? | 21:07 |
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| russellb | harlowja: yeah, still too much in flux on the plan there i think | 21:08 |
| harlowja | russellb sounds fine | 21:08 |
| harlowja | thx | 21:08 |
| russellb | for reference, we have 50 in the plan, but 175+ open | 21:08 |
| harlowja | :) | 21:08 |
| russellb | so lots still in discussion/planning/etc | 21:08 |
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| comstud | dansmith: looks good | 21:08 |
| comstud | + if hasattr(self, get_attrname(name)): | 21:08 |
| comstud | + primitive[name] = getattr(self, name) | 21:08 |
| comstud | ^ bug there | 21:08 |
| russellb | comstud: hey you! | 21:08 |
| uvirtbot | comstud: Error: "bug" is not a valid command. | 21:08 |
| comstud | oops | 21:08 |
| dansmith | heh | 21:08 |
| comstud | I thought this was window 4 | 21:09 |
| beagles | :) | 21:09 |
| comstud | (continue) | 21:09 |
| senhuang | rusellb: i think i am going to defer the cross projects (nova, cinder, quantum) blue print | 21:09 |
| devananda | done: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/deprecate-baremetal-driver | 21:09 |
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| russellb | senhuang: ok ... i think that one needs some more discussion / consensus building on the openstack-dev list | 21:09 |
| russellb | senhuang: unassign from yourself if you're dropping it | 21:09 |
| russellb | or we can close it if you want | 21:09 |
| senhuang | russellb: what i mean is to continue the discussions on the topic, but maybe move the actual design/implementation later | 21:10 |
| russellb | devananda: approved/updated | 21:10 |
| russellb | senhuang: ah ok, that's fine | 21:10 |
| russellb | senhuang: so the blueprint is fine where it is then | 21:10 |
| senhuang | russellb: yes | 21:10 |
| russellb | it's in the "we want to do this, but it's not clear how/when yet" state | 21:11 |
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| senhuang | russellb: you are 100% right. | 21:11 |
| russellb | :) | 21:11 |
| senhuang | russellb: it is better to add the group scheduling support now | 21:11 |
| russellb | yeah that sounds good | 21:11 |
| senhuang | russellb: which is pretty achievable within havana | 21:11 |
| russellb | so the next step in blueprint tracking after this week will be switching over to tracking progress against havana-1 | 21:12 |
| russellb | we've done a great job populating the list, but havana-1 is way overloaded right now | 21:12 |
| russellb | it doesn't look realistic to get all of it completed/reviewed/merged | 21:12 |
| russellb | so some things are likely going to have to shift to havana-2 | 21:12 |
| maoy | who's leading the v3 API work? | 21:12 |
| russellb | if you're assigned to havana-1 stuff, make sure it's realistic (going to be ready quite soon), or update to havana-2 please | 21:12 |
| russellb | maoy: cyeoh | 21:12 |
| russellb | #note Please file any remaining missing blueprints | 21:13 |
| russellb | #note Please verify that your milestone targets are realistic. havana-1 is overloaded right now. | 21:13 |
| russellb | anything else on blueprints? | 21:13 |
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| maoy | feel like we are missing a v3 API specification blueprint | 21:14 |
| devananda | russellb: i'm going to pass 2 db-related BP's to boris-42, if you dont mind | 21:14 |
| maoy | existing ones are implementations | 21:14 |
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| russellb | maoy: there is a top level v3-api blueprint ... but good point that i don't think there's a specific one for the spec | 21:14 |
| devananda | doubt i will have time to focus on those with the baremetal work | 21:14 |
| russellb | devananda: sure, sounds good. i saw some older ones assigned to you but wasn't sure on the status, so hadn't added them to the havana list | 21:15 |
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| russellb | makes sense | 21:15 |
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| devananda | russellb: yea, there are a few that no one is working on. i can unassign them | 21:15 |
| russellb | #note may need another blueprint for the v3 API spec. maoy to follow up with cyeoh on this | 21:15 |
| russellb | devananda: that would be good | 21:15 |
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| russellb | makes it more claer that they're open for taking | 21:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: a few of the xenapi are likley of havana, just need to determine the milestone | 21:16 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: sounds good! once a milestone is set, propose for the havana series and i'll take a look | 21:16 |
| cyeoh | maoy: by specification you mean the produced documentation for all the extensions like we currently have for v2? | 21:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: will do, off to bug the Citrix guys tomorrow | 21:16 |
| russellb | :) | 21:16 |
| russellb | cyeoh: something for api.openstack.org ... that kind of thing (is what i interpreted it as) | 21:17 |
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| russellb | but i guess it's not really ready to be published until we declare it "done" | 21:17 |
| maoy | cyeoh: yeah things like http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-compute/2/content/ | 21:17 |
| russellb | we need a period while it's in flux | 21:17 |
| russellb | marked as beta/in progress/ or something | 21:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | is that likely to extend beyond havana? | 21:18 |
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| cyeoh | russellb, maoy: ok, because of the way it is produced I was thinking it was part of the tests work, but I'll ad a separate blueprint for it. | 21:18 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: ideally not IMO | 21:18 |
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| russellb | cyeoh: you may be right ... doesn't hurt to have a checklist item for "is it documented" at the end | 21:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: cool, seems like a good first goal | 21:19 |
| maoy | cyeoh: one of the problem i have with v2 API spec is related to the Error state. | 21:19 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: thanks for joining us late :) | 21:19 |
| russellb | ok, let's catch up on more v3 API details out of meeting | 21:19 |
| russellb | #topic bugs | 21:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:19 | |
| maoy | sure | 21:20 |
| russellb | So all this focus on new stuff has caused us to fall behind on bugs | 21:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: no worries, just got back from a rehersal | 21:20 |
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| russellb | #link http://bit.ly/105Bydd | 21:20 |
| mikal | 80 bugs! | 21:20 |
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| hemna | I'm working on another fibre channel issue we found while doing load testing | 21:20 |
| russellb | I'm always open to ideas for ways to improve bug handling | 21:20 |
| hemna | I should get that fixed tomorrow | 21:20 |
| russellb | for now ... anyone up for a bug day? | 21:20 |
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| russellb | hemna: k | 21:20 |
| mikal | A bug day sounds like a good idea to me | 21:20 |
| russellb | we could do a bug day tomorrow ... | 21:20 |
| beagles | o/ | 21:20 |
| russellb | or next week if that's better for some reason | 21:21 |
| mikal | Hmmm, can we do a day that's not Saturday for me? | 21:21 |
| * dansmith schedules vacation for tomorrow | 21:21 | |
| russellb | mikal: ha, yes | 21:21 |
| senhuang | yep. i need a little bit more guidance on this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1049249 | 21:21 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1049249 in nova "Remove plugging of internal classes from configuration" [High,Confirmed] | 21:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 for bug day, maybe next week though | 21:21 |
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| cburgess | bug day sounds like fun. | 21:21 |
| russellb | mikal: well really that would mean today is your bug day :) | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | +1 for bug day here | 21:21 |
| * cyeoh agrees with mikal ;-) | 21:21 | |
| morganfainberg | but yeah next week please ;) | 21:21 |
| mikal | I propose... Wednesday! | 21:21 |
| mikal | No one does work on Wednesdays anyways | 21:21 |
| russellb | yeah, heads up would be nice | 21:21 |
| russellb | wednesday is good for me | 21:22 |
| russellb | cancel all your meetings, people! | 21:22 |
| russellb | we have cleanup to do! | 21:22 |
| senhuang | biweekly bug day? | 21:22 |
| russellb | #note bug day proposed for Wednesday, May 8 | 21:22 |
| mikal | senhuang: having something regular is a good idea IMHO | 21:22 |
| russellb | yeah i think so | 21:22 |
| hemna | +1 | 21:23 |
| russellb | mikal: interested in organizing such a thing? | 21:23 |
| mikal | Also, my timezone gets all the easy bugs... :P | 21:23 |
| russellb | mikal: the one next week, and a regular one? | 21:23 |
| mikal | russellb: sure, I shall send an email and so forth | 21:23 |
| russellb | mikal: yay | 21:23 |
| senhuang | mikal: great! | 21:23 |
| russellb | mikal: and have stat tracking ready to help motivate? :-D | 21:23 |
| russellb | my number is bigger than yours! etc | 21:23 |
| mikal | russellb: sure | 21:23 |
| cburgess | Biweekly or monthly | 21:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | how regular? once a month? | 21:23 |
| mikal | russellb: noting there might be bugs in the bug tracking | 21:23 |
| dansmith | wednesdays are my biggest meeting days, | 21:24 |
| russellb | mikal: patches welcome, right? | 21:24 |
| russellb | dansmith: weak! | 21:24 |
| dansmith | so cancelling them twice a month ain't gonna happen :) | 21:24 |
| mikal | russellb: for sures | 21:24 |
| dansmith | but I'm fine with bug days being on wednesdays otherwise :) | 21:24 |
| russellb | dansmith: or is it perfect? you can work on bugs during meetings | 21:24 |
| mikal | dansmith: what's your manager's email address? | 21:24 |
| cburgess | LOL | 21:24 |
| dansmith | haha | 21:24 |
| mikal | Hah | 21:24 |
| timello | heh | 21:24 |
| morganfainberg | hehe | 21:24 |
| beagles | is it weird that I like Monday's for that kind of thing? | 21:24 |
| dansmith | beagles: yes, it's weird | 21:25 |
| beagles | :) | 21:25 |
| * russellb will make any day work ... but please not Tuesday | 21:25 | |
| dripton | too many holidays on Mondays to make them good for regularly scheduled real work | 21:25 |
| beagles | good point | 21:25 |
| comstud | I vote for Tuesday | 21:25 |
| russellb | comstud: figures | 21:25 |
| morganfainberg | dripton: same problem with fridays… except also add in alcohol | 21:25 |
| comstud | kidding | 21:25 |
| hemna | mmm beer | 21:25 |
| mikal | My Monday is special to me... Its my US free day where I get actual work done. | 21:25 |
| comstud | Sunday | 21:26 |
| morganfainberg | comstud: lol | 21:26 |
| russellb | beer is acceptable during work on bug day | 21:26 |
| russellb | with moderation, of course. | 21:26 |
| comstud | Sunday is when I get most of my extra work done. | 21:26 |
| beagles | everyday is bug day then? | 21:26 |
| dripton | Just don't exceed the Ballmer Peak | 21:26 |
| mikal | Anyways, moving on... | 21:26 |
| mikal | :P | 21:26 |
| * beagles points to the beer=bug day correlation | 21:26 | |
| hartsocks | beagles: I honestly thought everyday *was* bug day… | 21:26 |
| russellb | #topic mikal going to work on organizing a regular scheduled bug day so we stay on track | 21:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mikal going to work on organizing a regular scheduled bug day so we stay on track (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:26 | |
| *** cp16net|away is now known as cp16net | 21:27 | |
| russellb | well, people get wrapped up in new development, or day job requirements | 21:27 |
| russellb | so "bug day" is trying to get everyone to set other things aside, all at the same time, so we can have some focused time together improving our bugs situation (triaging, fixing, etc) | 21:27 |
| russellb | that's my take anyway | 21:27 |
| mikal | Agreed | 21:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 21:28 |
| hartsocks | russellb: thanks for explaining to the newb. | 21:28 |
| russellb | #undo | 21:28 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x295c390> | 21:28 |
| russellb | #note mikal going to work on organizing a regular scheduled bug day so we stay on track | 21:28 |
| russellb | note, not topic! | 21:28 |
| russellb | mikal: anything else on bugs? | 21:28 |
| russellb | or anyone else | 21:28 |
| senhuang | could you roll back? :P | 21:28 |
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| russellb | senhuang: yeah i did #undo, it just doesn't actually fix the IRC channel topic, but it will fix the minutes | 21:29 |
| harlowja | russellb sounds good, lets make it happen | 21:29 |
| mikal | russellb: nup, that's me | 21:29 |
| russellb | k | 21:29 |
| russellb | #topic open discussion | 21:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:29 | |
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| dansmith | I have something for open discussion | 21:29 |
| russellb | some open discussion time, then we'll close out | 21:29 |
| russellb | dansmith: go! | 21:29 |
| dansmith | despite comstud's best efforts, he did not paste a dansmith-authored bug into the middle of the meeting | 21:29 |
| dansmith | that is all. | 21:29 |
| harlowja | :) | 21:29 |
| comstud | LOL | 21:29 |
| * russellb slow claps | 21:30 | |
| * beagles snickers | 21:30 | |
| maoy | haha | 21:30 |
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| comstud | dansmith is correct. | 21:30 |
| comstud | Sorry about that. | 21:30 |
| mikal | Heh | 21:30 |
| dansmith | okay sorry, real open discussion now :) | 21:30 |
| comstud | I am so used to finding dansmith-authored bugs that it just becomes too natural. | 21:31 |
| dansmith | ouch :( | 21:31 |
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| comstud | I kid, I kid. | 21:31 |
| russellb | open discussion is also the one time of week where it's acceptable to shamelessly plug your review | 21:31 |
| comstud | I just cannot read python. | 21:31 |
| russellb | comstud: ORLY | 21:31 |
| comstud | Yes | 21:32 |
| comstud | that's it. i'm rewriting this all in C. | 21:32 |
| russellb | random thing i've been thinking about ... i'd like to start a wiki page that's a Nova Review Checklist | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | comstud: i was expecting erlang. | 21:32 |
| lifeless | comstud: cool. | 21:32 |
| russellb | so we can start keeping a central list of things all reviewers should be looking for | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | russellb: that would be awesome | 21:32 |
| cyeoh | my shameless plug then: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27276/ (first of the v3 API extension framework patches) | 21:33 |
| russellb | cyeoh: ooh good plug | 21:33 |
| comstud | russellb: That would be helpful. | 21:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | sounds good, like the RPC versioning | 21:33 |
| russellb | comstud: yeah, figure it could help with consistency | 21:33 |
| comstud | I often find myself digging way down intot he list of reviews to try to find the most important ones | 21:33 |
| comstud | (not that I shouldn't be reviewing ALL OF THE THINGS, but) | 21:33 |
| comstud | sometimes I only have time to knock out a few.. and I want to make sure I'm hitting the high priority ones | 21:34 |
| russellb | ha, apparently i had this idea a long time ago, but never really completed it | 21:34 |
| russellb | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReviewChecklist | 21:34 |
| beagles | yeah, some conventional wisdom would be cool.. great to point to for newbs, etc. | 21:34 |
| russellb | so, i'll try to start making that more useful, and post to openstack-dev when it's worth reading | 21:34 |
| dansmith | yay | 21:34 |
| russellb | others certainly welcome to help get it going! | 21:34 |
| russellb | #note let's work on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReviewChecklist so that we have a more complete nova review checklist to help with review consistency! | 21:35 |
| beagles | got one item.. if you are not core and you notice that a review has been reviewed by 5 other non-core guys, find a core guy and tug their shirt-sleeve | 21:35 |
| senhuang | russellb: that will be awesome for new developers like me | 21:35 |
| russellb | #note It will also help communicate expectations to patch submitters | 21:35 |
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| beagles | (a note for your wiki, that is) | 21:36 |
| russellb | beagles: edit away! | 21:36 |
| timello | that's interesting, specially for new reviewers and also for experienced ones... will make reviews more consistent | 21:36 |
| beagles | yup | 21:36 |
| russellb | alrighty, any other topics? | 21:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | not today, might try roll up stuff from xenapi meeting next week, if there is anything pressing | 21:37 |
| harlowja | just throwing this out there, for others to read the orchestration weekly is starting back up | 21:38 |
| harlowja | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_orchestration_group/2013/ | 21:38 |
| russellb | i should probably start adding an agenda item for subteam reports | 21:38 |
| harlowja | lots of good stuff i think occuring there :) | 21:38 |
| harlowja | russellb that'd be useful i think | 21:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: +1 | 21:38 |
| comstud | russellb: what's status of scheduler filters/weights -> entrypooints ? we just dropping it completely for now? | 21:38 |
| n0ano | anyone interested in the scheduling sub-group we're just starting, the last irc log is here: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-04-30-15.04.log.html | 21:39 |
| russellb | comstud: needs to get done ... nobody is doing it | 21:39 |
| russellb | comstud: deadlock | 21:39 |
| comstud | russellb: that works out well for me right now | 21:39 |
| comstud | but was curious | 21:39 |
| comstud | :) | 21:39 |
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| russellb | yeah, i don't see it on the radar | 21:39 |
| comstud | Ok | 21:39 |
| russellb | but good point, i'll put that on my list of "things that need volunteers" | 21:39 |
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| comstud | I got the cells filt/weights coming up soon | 21:39 |
| comstud | just adding a test or 3 | 21:39 |
| russellb | i'm going to do a big post soon on "what's in our havana plan" and "things we need help with" | 21:39 |
| senhuang | anyone interested in the idea of having scheduling make decision based on some external information? | 21:40 |
| harlowja | russellb cool | 21:40 |
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| russellb | senhuang: external? like the weather? | 21:40 |
| * russellb kids | 21:40 | |
| comstud | russellb,senhuang: reminds me. i wanted to create a BP for conductor/scheduler changes.. that we should start with before other larger scheduler changes | 21:40 |
| comstud | and bring it up on list | 21:40 |
| russellb | comstud: make it happen! | 21:40 |
| senhuang | russellb: like some static topology configuration | 21:40 |
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| alaski | comstud: I made a blueprint for that, but didn't bring it up to the list yet | 21:41 |
| morganfainberg | senhuang: you mean something like a constraint system? | 21:41 |
| russellb | senhuang: yeah. vishy seemed interested in that at the summit | 21:41 |
| comstud | alaski: Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot that was going to be a *you* thing | 21:41 |
| comstud | GOOD | 21:41 |
| comstud | :) | 21:41 |
| russellb | which thing | 21:41 |
| comstud | I have too much already | 21:41 |
| alaski | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/query-scheduler | 21:41 |
| russellb | query scheduler? | 21:41 |
| russellb | ha | 21:41 |
| comstud | russellb: conductor/scheduler change | 21:41 |
| russellb | hadn't even seen the blueprint | 21:41 |
| alaski | just targeted it | 21:41 |
| russellb | called it! | 21:41 |
| harlowja | alaski +1 | 21:41 |
| harlowja | def need that i think | 21:41 |
| russellb | +1 | 21:42 |
| russellb | will approve | 21:42 |
| senhuang | morganfainberg: not sure. it is something like physical connectivity information put on some files. schedulers can read this information from files | 21:42 |
| russellb | alaski: havana-1 realistic? | 21:42 |
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| harlowja | alaski if u need any help with that one let me know | 21:42 |
| alaski | I guess I should find out exactly when that is, but I don't think it will be too large | 21:42 |
| russellb | alaski: toward the end of May | 21:42 |
| alaski | harlowja: cool | 21:42 |
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| morganfainberg | senhuang: ah yeah, similar in thought (aka, schedule X instances but lay it out in Y configuration) vs. just resource allocation/simple filtering | 21:43 |
| comstud | I think it will be relatively small work. new sched method(s) so that backwards compat works | 21:43 |
| russellb | alaski: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 21:43 |
| russellb | May 30 | 21:43 |
| alaski | russellb: I think so, keeping it pretty simple | 21:43 |
| russellb | k approved for havana | 21:43 |
| morganfainberg | senhuang: and base it on your "other" information. | 21:43 |
| morganfainberg | senhuang: that could be useful. | 21:43 |
| senhuang | moganfainberg: yep. then the scheduler is not limited to the information provided by host state reported by host-manager | 21:43 |
| morganfainberg | senhuang: exactly. | 21:44 |
| russellb | alaski: thanks! | 21:44 |
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| senhuang | morganfainberg: maybe we should start thinking of writing a blue print and see how to extend the current scheduler module | 21:44 |
| alaski | np. This should make shelving a bit easier as well | 21:44 |
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| russellb | alaski: which we also have on havana-1 | 21:45 |
| russellb | alaski: you have work to do! :) | 21:45 |
| * alaski types faster | 21:46 | |
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| alaski | shelving may get pushed, but I'm hopeful | 21:46 |
| russellb | k | 21:46 |
| morganfainberg | senhuang: i wouldn't be opposed to helping with something like that. I'm wrangling cburgess and a couple other people here so we can get some blueprints in asap so it can all get done for havana, so i'll be in BP mode soon. | 21:46 |
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| russellb | alaski: we could push, and always pull it back in if things go well | 21:46 |
| senhuang | morganfainberg: that will be great. i think some kind of wrapper around hoststate could be possible approach | 21:47 |
| alaski | russellb: works for me, I'll change it | 21:47 |
| russellb | k | 21:47 |
| russellb | alright, it was a pleasure talking to you all | 21:48 |
| russellb | thanks! | 21:48 |
| russellb | #endmeeting | 21:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:48 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 2 21:48:15 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:48 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-05-02-21.02.html | 21:48 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-05-02-21.02.txt | 21:48 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-05-02-21.02.log.html | 21:48 |
| comstud | ty | 21:48 |
| * johnthetubaguy goes to bed... | 21:48 | |
| senhuang | see you! thanks! | 21:48 |
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