Tuesday, 2013-10-15

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fifieldt_anyone here for DocTeamMeeting?12:54
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chandankumarfifieldt, yes12:55
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dnavalehello, fifieldt_12:56
fifieldt_hi dnavale, chandankumar12:56
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chandankumarfifieldt_, hello12:56
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fifieldtwe've also got a freshly awoken annegentle12:57
fifieldtpossibly an EmilienM12:57
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summerlhey fifieldt12:57
fifieldtand a summerl!12:57
fifieldtmaybe even a koolhead1712:57
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fifieldtor a sgordon12:58
EmilienM2 min in advance :D12:58
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sgordonnow now12:58
koolhead17hi all12:58
fifieldthave to start on time12:58
sgordoni have a whole three minutes12:58
* fifieldt is sooooo sleeeppppyyy12:58
* summerl just took a pre-meeting nap12:58
fifieldtnice one12:59
* fifieldt has never managed to do that, and wake up again 12:59
annegentleshort naps are an art12:59
EmilienMshort = 1 hour ?13:00
annegentleOk let's get started13:00
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annegentle#startmeeting Docteammeeting13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 15 13:00:17 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Docteammeeting)"13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'docteammeeting'13:00
annegentleAgenda is here13:00
annegentle#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting13:00
* ttx lurks13:00
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annegentleI know we're all itching to talk install but let's circle back on the action items from last time13:00
annegentleheh first one was "Merge in install guide as-is"13:01
fifieldtdone :D13:01
annegentleall the action items might be install related anyway13:01
annegentleannegentle to work on glance conceptual intro, and swift13:01
annegentle    install"13:01
annegentlealso done13:01
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annegentlesgordon to share patterns for nova <--- for release notes?13:01
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sgordoni wrote the vast majority of the nova release notes13:02
fifieldtnice work sgordon13:02
annegentlesgordon: nice.13:02
sgordon#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Havana#OpenStack_Compute_.28Nova.2913:02
annegentleannegentle to dive into glance new features for release notes13:02
annegentleoh I haven't started on this ^^13:02
annegentlethen there's NickChase deep dive into Neutron new features13:02
sgordonSMEs for vmware, powervm, vmwareapi and xen wrote those specific bits13:02
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annegentleI don't think Nick's online13:03
summerl? annegentle, image notes are done13:03
annegentlesummerl: awesome13:03
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annegentleguess that's why I took that one, ha ha13:03
annegentlenermina to study ceilometer features for rel notes <--- how's that one?13:03
summerlannegentle, I volunteered at the last bit13:03
annegentlesgordon: that's a thing of beauty13:04
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summerlpercale did the review13:04
annegentlekoolhead17 to ask Swift PTL notmyname for feature set for release notes13:04
annegentleand then last was ^^13:04
annegentlesummerl: I don't see you in the action items from the meeting minutes but that's ok13:04
annegentlesummerl: oh did you do the image notes?13:05
koolhead17annegentle: yes will get it13:05
summerloh well, annegentle, did it anyway :)13:05
annegentlesummerl: thank you!13:05
koolhead17annegentle:  notmyname is in Austin only :)13:05
annegentlekoolhead17: yeah I saw that, but you did ask him right? So you can call the action item done13:05
koolhead17annegentle: sure13:06
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annegentleOk I think we call all those action items a wrap13:06
annegentleOn to the favorite topic13:06
annegentle#topic Install guides13:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Install guides (Meeting topic: Docteammeeting)"13:06
annegentle#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/havanainstall13:06
annegentle#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/HavanaDocTesting13:06
annegentlefifieldt: you want to walk us through latest?13:06
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fifieldtok, sure13:07
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fifieldtso in recent days we've added quite a few new sections to the install guide13:07
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fifieldtit seems like: overview, basic OS, identity, image, dashboard are done and known good13:07
fifieldtobject storage is likely good to go as well13:08
fifieldtwe also have added sections on networking for compute, neutron, heat and ceilometer that might be passable13:08
fifieldtblock storage too13:08
fifieldtbut the testing matrix (the wiki link) shows the current working status13:08
fifieldtbasically if it doesn't have a green tick, we don't know if it works13:08
fifieldtif it's a warning sign, it means we haven't written it yet13:09
fifieldtas far as I can tell we still do not have a working compute install13:09
annegentledoes anyone know if others are successfully installing havana compute?13:09
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nerminahi everyone13:09
fifieldthi nermina13:09
shaunm_I'm still working through the nova networking stuff, but otherwise yes13:09
koolhead17annegentle: we have 100 options are we talking about compute with KVM13:09
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fifieldtthe nova conroller stuff appears to work13:10
koolhead17also am going through the swift/ubuntu install guide will comment/finish reviewing soon13:10
annegentleshaunm_: ok so Fedora is done for Compute?13:11
fifieldtwhich is enough to test the dashboard .... but without compute nodes with networking, it's not so useful for other things :)13:11
annegentleit's ubuntu we can't quite get yet?13:11
annegentlefifieldt: you have to change 100 options from the default? That seems bad13:11
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fifieldtthat's not true, annegentle ....13:11
annegentlefifieldt: ok13:11
annegentleis a VM a good-enough install test?13:12
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fifieldtit's how I "grew up" on openstack, so I'd say yes :)13:12
EmilienMrunning tempest is the best option13:13
fifieldtI don't believe networking is working under any distribution right now13:13
annegentlefifieldt: ok good13:13
shaunm_annegentle: excepting networking, yes. I wanted to briefly look back over the sections leading up to compute before putting the check mark on the wiki, because I know there were changes13:13
annegentleEmilienM: oh, how do you mean?13:13
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annegentleshaunm_: ok got it13:13
EmilienMannegentle: we are deploying havana, against several os, to test if all was right, we run tempest13:13
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fifieldtnot useful in this case EmilienM -  we're mainly testing instructions13:14
fifieldtshaunm_, but network is the hardest part of nova :)13:14
EmilienMthat ensures you functionnality coverage13:14
annegentleEmilienM: ah ok, but yeah, we need to manually install13:14
EmilienMfifieldt: make sense :)13:14
shaunm_fifieldt, and hence it's the thing most in need of good docs :)13:14
annegentlemy sense is that we're in a similar position as we were for Grizzly - networking is far, far behind in docs. Suggestions?13:14
fifieldtyes, but I don't like to hear things are "almost done" when they still need networking ... it's just not true :)13:15
annegentlehow to communicate this to the rest of OpenStack? And when?13:15
annegentlefifieldt: oh I'm with ya :)13:15
koolhead17annegentle: we need to get some core devs help to fix it :)13:15
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shaunm_fifieldt, did you just write that section from memory? you didn't run the commands?13:15
fifieldtI wrote the section derived from a random assortment of sources13:16
annegentlekoolhead17: well, we have some neutron folks talking about ml2 writing, but no patches yet13:16
fifieldtthe commands will run, but they are likely to be unsuccesful in practice13:16
shaunm_it actually has the user configuring quite a bit more stuff than the grizzly install docs did13:16
koolhead17annegentle: we need to run after them :D13:16
annegentleshaunm_: the networking stuff that got added last night has use cases13:16
fifieldtindeed shaunm_ but we're going for multi-host13:17
fifieldtannegentle, that's for neutron13:17
annegentlekoolhead17: well sure, but in 2 days I don't expect miracles... so what do we need to do13:17
fifieldtI think we're still talking about compute13:17
fifieldtcompute networking* section13:17
annegentlefifieldt: yeah are you talking nova-network or neutron?13:17
annegentlefifieldt: ok13:17
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koolhead17fifieldt: via nova-network it should be easy13:18
nerminafifieldt, annegentle, has anyone looked at ch_installcompute?13:18
shaunm_as it's written, it's a bit more magic than I'd like. but first priority is for it to be functional13:18
annegentleshaunm_: ah magic. sigh.13:18
fifieldtI just filled out the section with what I think has the best chance of working13:18
summerlnermina, yes, but as you saw, I fell. Hard.13:19
fifieldtkoolhead17, if you have a working set of config for nova-network ...13:19
annegentleyes I think the main goal is testing, and we need instructions to test13:19
nerminaoh, i didn't see. sorry, summerl13:19
annegentlesummerl: ouch!13:19
summerlyes, it wasn't pretty.13:19
fifieldtthat was the aim of the patch, to hopefully get some people debugging the stuff and make it work13:19
summerlsgordon, have you looked at the compute chapter?13:19
annegentleok, here's the question, who has time and access to systems to test?13:20
fifieldtthe compute network patch that is13:20
annegentleI know shaunm_ has fedora systems to test13:20
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shaunm_I'm working through fifieldt's nova-network stuff now13:20
annegentleI think fifieldt has ubuntu, and I can do ubuntu (but networking is NOT my strong suit)13:20
annegentleshaunm_: ok good13:20
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nerminai will ask our folks but don't want to promise13:20
annegentle#action shaunm_ testing nova-network on Fedora13:20
koolhead17fifieldt: nopes13:20
annegentlenermina: ok, fair enough13:20
sgordonsummerl, i've looked at it yes, but as far as networking for compute i havent really touched it13:20
annegentleI think part of our communication back to the community is that the testing is very difficult and requires hardware13:21
sgordonas 99% of what i've looked at with networking is neutron13:21
nerminatell me exactly what needs testing, annegentle, so i can be specific13:21
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fifieldtspecific testing instructions: follow the manuals for a given section, dumbly, to the letter, and see if it works as advertised13:21
fifieldtdistro/section combos requiring this can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/HavanaDocTesting13:21
nerminathanks, fifieldt13:22
annegentlenermina: sure, looking at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/HavanaDocTesting, ask if they can test ubuntu or RHEL for Compute13:22
nerminai will follow up today13:22
nerminayou can hold me to that13:22
annegentlenermina: thank you13:22
annegentleOk, any other discussion on install?13:22
shaunm_on that list, CentOS is probably a low priority13:22
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shaunm_as long as RHEL tests OK13:23
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annegentleshaunm_: yeah I'd agree13:23
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nerminagood to know13:23
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fifieldtindeed two complete distros are better than many incomplete13:23
annegentleI'll ask a ton of questions as I test13:23
annegentlefifieldt: that would be fantastic13:24
annegentleoh, I do want to say, I'm creating a branch tomorrow that is our release candidate13:24
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summerlOk, so no updates now, annegentle, in other guides?13:24
fifieldtso we'll need to do the whole backporting thing to update the install guide?13:24
annegentleand I'll rebase with whatever gets in by Thursday morning my time13:24
annegentle(really it's cut on ttx time)13:24
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annegentleactually, let's talk about fifieldt's question13:25
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annegentleI think we cut a branch and have to backport13:25
annegentleI can't think of another way13:25
fifieldtmy thinking was more along the lines of: with the current state of the install guide, is it worth cutting?13:25
koolhead17fifieldt: i just asked pranav/aptira for the networking help13:25
annegentlekoolhead17: thanks13:26
annegentlefifieldt: that's certainly up for discussion13:26
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fifieldtpersonally, I think we need to see how the compute stuff ends up13:27
annegentleand what we need to communicate to the openstack community if its different from our planning all along13:27
fifieldtif we can't get a tested compute install going13:27
annegentlebackporting is not all that terrible13:27
fifieldtthen a "come back in 2 days" message13:27
shaunm_are there people wanting to add stuff to master that isn't for havana?13:27
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annegentleshaunm_: nope13:27
fifieldtis better than releasing a guide that doesn't work13:27
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annegentlefifieldt: yeah and my sense is that the chances of the guide working in 24 hours isn't great13:28
annegentleok, so the "other way" is to not cut a release branch13:28
fifieldtwe need to set some deadline though13:28
fifieldtwe really can't let this slip13:28
annegentleYes, I was just going to say, I refuse to go to the summit again with non-released docs13:28
annegentleif I have to release without install I will13:28
annegentlefifieldt: right.13:29
fifieldtI don't think releasing without install is a good option either13:29
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annegentlefifieldt: ok13:29
annegentleother ideas?13:29
nerminai will respond on compute within the next hour13:29
fifieldtcheers nermina!13:29
annegentlenermina: ok thanks!13:29
fifieldtwe need to call in all favours and just get it done13:29
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annegentleOk, let's all report in about 12 hours on the mailing list13:29
shaunm_we can drop later chapters if they're not ready13:29
annegentleWe'll keep triaging this guy every 12 hours13:30
annegentleAnd do a go-no-go vote via the mailing list13:30
fifieldtI think we should be making phone calls to people at this stage13:30
annegentlesound ok?13:30
fifieldtrather than just emails13:30
annegentlefifieldt: fair13:30
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fifieldtif we don't have the skill to write the nova-network section13:30
fifieldtwe need to find someone who does13:30
fifieldtand do that within the next 12 hours13:31
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fifieldtget it tested13:31
fifieldtand then release13:31
annegentlefifieldt: any ideas who?13:31
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fifieldtall my guys are already asleep :) sans people like our ops guide co-authors13:31
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fifieldtjoe, jon etc13:31
annegentleoh yeah Joe saved our butts last time :)13:32
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nerminablast it on the mailing lists as well?13:32
annegentlenermina: yep, that sounds right13:32
fifieldtthese guys are pro at debugging systems - if we can get a testbed going based on our install that they can ssh into and just "fix"13:32
koolhead17dguitarbite1: is going to help us with the networking part annegentle13:32
fifieldtthat might be a good way to do it13:32
annegentle#action AnneGentle to email the openstack list asking for help13:32
nerminamight be good to send the structure13:32
fifieldtdguitarbite1, fix this: http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/install-guide/install/apt/content/nova-network.html so it works13:32
annegentledguitarbite1: awesome, do you have what you need?13:33
dguitarbite1fifieldt: kool13:33
dguitarbite1annegentle: yes13:33
annegentledguitarbite1: thanks much13:33
dguitarbite1i got quantum working with OVS13:33
annegentledguitarbite1: ok definitely update then!13:33
dguitarbite1even inside Virtual Box it runs perfect :)13:33
koolhead17dguitarbite1: ^^13:34
annegentleok sorry gotta keep moving13:34
annegentle#topic Doc tools updates13:34
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annegentleWe do need to go to 1.11.1 for Havana for the API site for certain, for other docs they can stay at 1.11.013:34
annegentle#link https://github.com/rackerlabs/clouddocs-maven-plugin#release-notes13:34
annegentlewe needed this one: Updated apipage-main.xsl to include metering API13:35
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annegentlethe log a bug link has been working well!13:35
nerminaloves it!13:35
annegentlewe also need Rename "Template" parameters as "URI" parameters in output for API docs, hence the 1.11.1 release.13:35
annegentleIn case you're wondering how releases work, check out https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Release#Actions_on_Final_Branch13:36
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annegentlethose are all the actions on the final branch13:36
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annegentleone thing I'm not sure about, is whether I have to cut a second final branch to make sure the sitemap.xml is accurate.13:36
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annegentlesince the branch has to be built on to get docs.openstack.org/havana13:36
annegentleand without the /havana, the sitemap won't be accurate13:37
annegentleI am also seeing reports of people not getting redirected as expected, most recent is from today https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/124005913:37
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1240059 in openstack-manuals "Redirects aren't working right in grizzly docs to new documents" [High,Confirmed]13:37
annegentleany questions on doc tools?13:37
annegentle#topic Bug report, DocImpact state13:37
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annegentleOk, as fifieldt noted on the list, DocImact wasn't working for about the month of September/half of October13:38
fifieldtapologies all :(13:38
annegentleit got fixed by infra yesterday, and I wrangled the rest into the system13:38
annegentleI think the net add was just a dozen or so, WHEW13:38
annegentle#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+milestone/havana13:38
annegentle#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-api-site/+milestone/havana13:39
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annegentleI'm pretty excited about 82 confirmed and 146 Fix Released though13:39
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annegentleWe can have a LOT of pride in this release overall. A LOT.13:40
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annegentleEven if install is kicking our asses.13:40
nerminawe'll get it done13:40
annegentleok any questions on doc bugs?13:40
annegentlenermina: +100013:41
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annegentle#topic Design Summit sessions13:41
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annegentle#link http://summit.openstack.org13:41
annegentleYou can click the Topic column to sort13:41
annegentleThere are four proposed for Documentation and we have four slots, but can move things around as needed, so do propose by end of this week or next13:42
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fifieldtalso create blueprints13:42
annegentlefifieldt: yes13:42
annegentlefifieldt: Diane has a blueprint but isn't going to the Summit, about API docs, that I'll probably discuss during the restructure one13:43
annegentlefifieldt: if you don't mind using the restructure as a catch-all13:43
fifieldtsure, I don't even recall what the original idea I had in mind was13:43
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annegentle"Following from the session at the previous summit[1][2], let's take stock. Assessing how we did in our restructure efforts over Havana, and plan what structural work is needed over the next cycle or two."13:44
fifieldtsounds reasonable13:44
annegentle#topic Open Discussion13:44
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annegentleI do want to talk about meeting times summerl :)13:44
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chandankumarfifieldt, i would like to work on this, Tool to get statistic data in Transifex13:45
annegentlewell let's take one step back, is this meeting nice for status?13:45
annegentlework division?13:45
annegentlewhat are the goals for this meeting?13:45
fifieldtsounds great chandankumar, let's discus offline? I need to sleep soon13:46
summerlannegentle, I think I'm just a wuss, everyone else on the team is all like, yeah, nighttime.13:46
fifieldtrandom data point: I am beginning to like the idea of little mini-meets during the timezone overlaps AU->EU, EU->US, US->AU13:46
annegentlesummerl: heh I'm a morning wuss (and missed too many early ones I'll admit)! I'm also a nightime wuss.13:46
annegentleDouble wuss status!13:46
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openstacksummerl: Error: "!" is not a valid command.13:47
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annegentleWe have weekly-ish newsletters What's Up Doc and weekly office hours, what can the meeting fill?13:47
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annegentle(I'm really just asking, not asking leading questions)13:47
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annegentleYou'll also notice my fellow Rackers aren't at this one and it's only 8 here13:48
annegentleso yeah13:48
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annegentlewant to figure out the best goals for meetings13:48
fifieldtstrawman: forming fast consensus on difficult aspects that have previously been raised on the mailing list13:48
nerminait's just as needed, right, if someone is on13:48
annegentlefifieldt: yeah I want to talk more about the positives of meetings and how to fill the needs13:49
annegentlefifieldt: we know the difficulties, so what can we do to meet needs?13:49
annegentlesummerl: do you really like a check-in time?13:49
summerlDefinitely good for critical situations, annegentle13:49
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annegentlesummerl: yep totally agree13:49
annegentleand sgordon came up with 2x a month nearing the release13:50
annegentlewhat's best for post release?13:50
annegentleNot trying to over complicate either! :)13:50
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annegentleif we should meet weekly because all the other programs do, there's that too. I was hoping office hours filled that need13:50
annegentlebut office hours attendance has dropped13:50
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annegentlemaybe office hours could go to my evening/ Aus day?13:51
annegentleand we find a new meeting time?13:51
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fifieldtin terms of regularity, I like it when I login of a morning and annegentle tells me what's going on, then I can pass the messages on to AJaeger in the afternoon when he logs in. I find that useful for status.13:51
annegentlethink on that, APAC folks, I'd love office hours on your side of the world13:51
annegentlefifieldt: yeah that's valueable13:52
nerminaabout to speak with mirantis qa, annegentle, anything else to test besides compute13:52
annegentlelets' think about an evening time then13:52
annegentlenermina: networking! nova-network and neutron13:52
summerlannegentle, sounds good.13:52
* annegentle loves QA/QE13:52
fifieldtnermina, object storage, heat and ceilometer as well13:52
fifieldtthe latter two may just not work at all13:53
fifieldtso tell them to fail fast13:53
annegentlefifieldt: nermina: but definitely top priority networking :)13:53
annegentleheh yes fail fast13:53
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annegentleok, anything else?13:53
annegentleI haven't seen any proof of concept on a redesign from Todd Morey, I keep checking in with hi13:53
annegentleoh and Nick Chase is working with Alice King, the Foundation lawyer, on the licensing details13:54
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annegentlethey're drafting a memo outlining the issues to go to the board13:54
summerlannegentle, what are the basic issues?13:54
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annegentleOh and please do vote for me for Technical Committee. I don't usually campaign hard but I do feel it's important13:54
fifieldtoh, I'm sure that's in my inbox somewhere13:54
fifieldtis it closing soon?13:54
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annegentlesummerl: in October 2012 the board voted to use CCBY for the docs, but we never did the detail work of how to ensure contributors know the difference, and what to do with legacy licensed docs13:55
annegentlefifieldt: probably this week, right?13:55
fifieldtoh well13:55
fifieldtbed time for me13:55
summerlannegentle, and that will happen for havana?13:55
annegentle#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TC_Elections_Fall_201313:55
annegentlesummerl: honestly, hard to say. Since it's been a year since the licensing changed we could face another year of getting the tooling in place :)13:56
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summerlah, ok.13:56
annegentlefifieldt: good night, and thanks for all the hard work!13:56
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annegentlealrighty! I can't think of anything else!13:57
annegentleThanks everyone for all the hard work, and pass that to your colleagues as well. I tell Diane and David thanks all the time!13:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 15 13:58:03 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteammeeting/2013/docteammeeting.2013-10-15-13.00.html13:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteammeeting/2013/docteammeeting.2013-10-15-13.00.txt13:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteammeeting/2013/docteammeeting.2013-10-15-13.00.log.html13:58
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alaskiAnyone here for the scheduler meeting?15:00
toan-tranyes, I am. hi everyone15:00
shanewang1good evening15:01
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alaski#startmeeting Scheduler15:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 15 15:01:24 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is alaski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Scheduler)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scheduler'15:01
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alaskiSo we don't have an official agenda today since I'm subbing in15:02
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alaskiBut we were going to continue the discussion from last week about summit sessions15:02
MikeSpreitzerWe have some discussion queued up from the ML15:02
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MikeSpreitzerthat too15:02
alaskiyes, I figured we could get to ML after a summit discussion15:02
PaulMurrayI think we were going to get back to scheduler session too - if @PhilDay is here15:03
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PhilDHi Folks15:03
PaulMurrayhere he is15:03
alaskiIs https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IceHouse-Nova-Scheduler-Sessions erroring for anyone else?15:03
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alaski#topic Summit sessions15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit sessions (Meeting topic: Scheduler)"15:03
PhilDI had trouble with it in Chrome - but could get to it in IE15:04
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shanewang1me too15:04
PhilDI assume some problem with the Etherpad changes15:04
PaulMurrayYes - it is for me @alaski15:04
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alaskiok, works in FF but not Chrome for me15:05
alaskiPhilD: do you want to recap your suggestion for sessions?15:05
gliksonworks for me in Chrome..15:05
toan-tranit works for me in chrome, version 30.0.1599.615:05
MikeSpreitzerAs for content, I like Phil's revised trio15:05
MikeSpreitzerfor the case where we get only 3 sessions15:05
PhilDSure.   We have three guaranteed slots from Russell - so I was trying to make sure that we cover all of the major topics15:05
PhilDGroup scheduling,  Making other Metrics available, and performance15:06
PhilDAnd then I tried to map teh proposed sessions (from both the EP and submitted) into those15:06
PhilDSome other things will need to take thier chance against the general pool of sessions15:07
alaskiok, so smart resource placement and instance group model would be combined?15:07
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PhilDI think the best we can do is say to RB "If there are only three slots - please cut it this way" - if tehre is an extra slot, please split this one up15:07
YathiI don't like the idea of combining15:07
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russellbalaski volunteered to help with building the schedule, so if he understands the priorities of this group, we should be set :)15:08
YathiIt is a lot of big topics combined into a single session15:08
russellbi'm pulling in some folks to help with some of the hard decisions ...15:08
PhilD@alaski - its not great I agree,  but the alternatiove is that we don;t proivde any steer, and they they get combined in some other way instead15:08
MikeSpreitzerLike Phil said, our top ask would be to split that session15:08
russellbbtw, i really appreciate the hard work you guys are doing with planning this stuff15:08
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PhilDThanks Russell15:09
alaskirussellb: thanks15:09
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PhilDWhat surprised me was that Boris doesn't seem to have submitted a performance session yet ?15:09
alaskiyeah, I'm a little surprised too15:09
shanewang1probably he forgot15:10
alaskiI'll try to ping him about that15:10
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alaskiboris-42: are you here?15:10
boris-42alaski always here=)15:10
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alaskiboris-42: :)15:10
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alaskiare you going to submit a session around scheduler performance, or should someone else?15:10
boris-42alaski we almost finish work around refactoring scheduler15:11
boris-42alaski and yes I will get results before & after15:11
russellbboris-42: but a design summit session, did you plan to submit one?15:11
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boris-42russellb there is already for scheduler15:12
YathiPhilD: Debo and I felt combining Group APIs, Smart Resource Placement, Heat and Scheduling into a single session, it is going to be hard to give justice to everything..15:12
boris-42russellb it seems that we have at least 3-4 concepts =)15:12
russellbwhich, this one?  http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/3415:12
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russellbboris-42: yep15:12
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alaskiYathi: I think it would just be group apis and smart resource placement15:12
boris-42russelbb I don't thing that this is right session15:12
russellbboris-42: which session are you referring to then?15:13
boris-42russellb wait a sec i will found15:13
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boris-42russellb omg15:13
PhilD@Yathi -  I underdstand the concern, really I do, but as always we have more material / ideas / proposed sessions than slots - so whatever way we cut this will be a compromise.15:14
boris-42russellb oh I thought that there is a session15:14
boris-42grayk ping15:14
gliksonI tend to agree with Yathi that having an in-depth discussion on all of that would be a challenge. ideally, we can narrow-down the scope to something that we actually plan to implement in Icehouse timeframe..15:14
boris-42garyk ping15:14
alaskiboris-42: garyk isn't here today15:14
boris-42alaski omg15:14
boris-42russellb there is a big thread in mailing list15:15
alaskiboris-42: do you want to propose a session for this?15:15
YathiSmart resource placement has a lot of people interested, and there might be even something to demo, using cross services theme15:15
boris-42alaski yes15:15
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boris-42alaski we could discuss all approaches15:15
russellbboris-42: right ... well these guys have been working hard trying to organize schedulre sessions, so that's why they were wondering15:15
MikeSpreitzerYathi: I would be happy to demo what my group has done15:15
boris-42russellb I would like to be on their session imho15:15
alaskiboris-42: cool.  Can you do it today or tomorrow?15:15
PhilDSo which of teh other 2 sessions would you drop, scheduler performance or genearlised metrics / ceilometer ?15:15
boris-42alaski russellb I will add just a session and link to that thread?)15:16
PhilDBoth of those topics also have a lot of interest, and a lot to discuss as well15:16
gliksonBTW, I also plan to submit a proposal on adding support for multiple scheduler configurations, as indicated in the Etherpad, to discuss the dilemas identified during the work on the blueprint in Havana15:16
alaskiboris-42: definitely link the thread if it has good information.  But please also summarize it in the proposal15:16
YathiMikeSpreitzer:  Same here, I will be happy to demo too, what our group is doing in this area.15:16
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gliksonprobably doesn't fit into either of the 3 themes15:17
boris-42alaski Okay will do today but little bit later15:17
alaskiboris-42: that works, thanks15:17
PhilD@glikson - that's fine, I think there can eb other sessiosn that take thier chance against all of th eother porpoosals.  What we're trying to do here is work out what the three "must have" scheduler sessions are15:17
boris-42alaski russellb are you interested in benchmark results?15:17
boris-42alaski russellb I am testing OpenStack agaisnt 1k servers15:17
gliksonPhilD: sure, makes sense15:18
MikeSpreitzerWith Boris submitting a session, PhilD's revised trio still looks good, right?15:18
alaskiboris-42: benchmarks are good.  everyone likes real numbers15:18
PhilDYep - I'd assumed that Boris would submit a session;-)15:18
boris-42alaski actually I don't want to speak about numbers15:18
alaskiMikeSpreitzer: makes sense to me15:18
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boris-42alaski I would like to speak about how to get such results on your PC or small amount of servers using Rally15:19
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boris-42alaski https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally15:19
alaskieven if you don't spend a lot of time on numbers it would be good to hear what you saw15:19
shanewang1yes, we all are interested in that.15:20
PhilDOne thing we have to try and get smart on is how to do the cross team sessions (Nova/Heat), Nova/Celiometer, etc15:20
Yathiare these cross team sessions - separate from the three you are trying to pick here ?15:21
MikeSpreitzerboris-42: I think we were anticipating a session on how to improve scheduling, not how to measure the improvement15:21
PhilDFeels like those are always hard to schedule - and generally slow because both groups have to come up to speed.15:21
alaskiMikeSpreitzer: agreed.  That's what I'm expecting15:21
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PhilDI'm asking the question / trawling for ideas really on what we can do to make those effective.15:22
boris-42MikeSpretizer I am speaking about another one15:22
shanewang1MikeSpreitzer: better have some numbers to compare those methods on how to improve scheduling15:22
alaskiPhilD: My thinking has been that we should start with what needs to be done in each project, and limit the cross team concerns15:22
MikeSpreitzerPhilD: cross anything is tough, you first have to spend more time than you expected learning each other's vocabulary and way of thinking15:23
boris-42MikeSpreitzer scheduler is one thing, OpenStack benchmark system another15:23
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MikeSpreitzerboris-42: OK, two sessions, got it15:23
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MikeSpreitzerYes, I definitely like measuring!15:23
boris-42MikeSpreitzer yeah we have to simplify it15:23
MikeSpreitzerboris-42: now I'm lost, simplify what?15:24
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PhilDOk - so then we can exclude the Heat aspects from the Group scheduler session and the Celiometer aspects from the metrics one ?15:24
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PaulMurrayboris-42 do you mean benchmark system to be in scheduling sessions or elsewhere?15:24
boris-42MikeSpreitzer simplify benchmarking of openstack deployments.  Then we will be able to start continues working around performance15:24
boris-42PaulMurray NOO15:24
boris-42PaulMurray I will bring only numbers=)15:25
MikeSpreitzerboris-42: understand remark about simplification; thanks15:25
PaulMurrayboris-42 thanks :)15:25
alaskiPhilD: I think that makes sense if we're trimming to the minimum possible15:25
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alaskiSo just to summarize, we're looking at "Group scheduling,  Making other Metrics available, and performance"15:26
alaskigroup sheduling would be instance groups and smart resource placement15:26
alaskiboris-42: will open a performance session15:26
MikeSpreitzerI'm not sure I understand the remark about trimming #215:26
PhilDYep - that would be my core trio15:26
MikeSpreitzerWhat is the proposed in scope, what is out, for #2 ?15:27
boris-42alaski so should I make 2 session?15:27
PhilDAnd if there is a chance of a 4th core scheduler session we split group scheduling into "API" and "scheduling implementation" - rather than pick a 4th topic15:27
alaskiboris-42: it sounds like it.  We want a session on improving scheduler performance, with numbers.  And then you can open a session on Rally15:27
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boris-42alaski Nice thanks15:27
shanewang1is "making other metrics available"   Generic  Scheduler Metrics and  Celiometer?15:28
YathiOk.  if there are extra sessions available it will be good to see the API discussion separately15:28
MikeSpreitzerYathi: agreed15:28
YathiPhilD: that will be good15:28
MikeSpreitzerIn fact, quite desired15:28
MikeSpreitzerI hope alaski pushes hard for it15:28
alaskiI'll be ready to go with that.  But I haven't seen how many sessions are competing for slots right now15:29
alaskiI would like more than 3 scheduling sessions if possible15:29
YathiSmart resource placement topic is too big involving several areas, and also covers cross-services. I hope we have a good start with this during the session allotted15:29
PhilD@shenewangs1 yes - although it sounds as if were agreed to go with focusing on what can be done inside Nova first, rather than risk a cross-team session15:30
PhilDMaybe we should go for a two week summit next time ;-)15:30
alaskiKeep in mind that what we really need to cover is work that can be expected to be done in IceHouse, which may help limit scope15:30
shanewang1@Phil thanks.15:30
russellbalaski: +1 :-)15:31
Yathialaski: Agreed.  Our discussions so far in the ML and in scheduler meeting, is to start simple.. get somethign that works within Nova first15:31
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gliksonmaybe we can try arranging additional 'unconference' sessions to deep-dive into the more complicated topics..15:31
shanewang1@Phil Maybe we should have nova summit, ceilometer summit:)15:31
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alaskiYathi: cool, that seems the best approach15:32
MikeSpreitzer1Right.  But with an eye towards going holistic.15:32
YathiI am thinking these 'unconference' sessions will be where we will get to demo our initial progress15:32
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shanewang1@glikson I like that idea15:33
MikeSpreitzer1But they conflict with official sessions, right?15:33
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gliksonMS: yes15:33
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YathiIt is my first summit.. don't know how they work15:33
MikeSpreitzer1sorry, networking glitch, I missed what shanewang1 likes from glikson15:33
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alaskiSo are we pretty much settled and ready to move on?15:33
MikeSpreitzer1what did glikson say that s. likes?15:34
russellbif you want to grab space there, do it early15:34
russellbit fills up fast15:34
MikeSpreitzer1my first summit too.  Will stop whining now.15:34
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shane-wangmy second:)15:35
Yathihow long do the official sessions last ?15:35
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alaskiYathi: 50-60 min I think15:35
MikeSpreitzer1How does one get an unconference slot?15:36
Yathischeduler sessions will all get 50-60 mins ?15:36
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alaskiYathi: each session will get that time, yes15:36
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gliksoncould also make sense to try agreeing on acceptable time slots for the unconference before the summit, among the 'core' interested folks (maybe using doodle)15:37
YathiWe have to make sure we get interested people to attend the interesting 'unconference' sessions15:38
MikeSpreitzer1sounds like an interesting idea15:38
gliksonprobably would need to happen during the last week before the summit, after the design tracks agenda is finalized15:39
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Yathihow do you reserve a 'unconference' session? Is it on the spot ?15:39
gliksonYathi: yes, a whiteboard15:39
shane-wangdo we have enough rooms for "unconference", and can two scheduler "unconference"s happen at one time?15:39
MikeSpreitzer1when does the whiteboard open?15:39
MikeSpreitzer1I would not want two competing unconferences for us15:40
gliksonMS: when the summit begins15:40
alaskiSo why don't we come back to this after some/all of the sessions have been scheduled.  Then we can see what might need to go into an unconference15:40
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MikeSpreitzer1alaski: sounds good to me15:40
gliksonrussellb: do you know how many 'unconference' rooms will be available? one or more?15:41
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MikeSpreitzer1shane-wang: ?15:41
shane-wangalaski: agree15:41
shane-wangomg "when the summit begins"15:41
gliksonalaski: sure. probably would make more sense to have follow-ups rather than completely new topics15:41
alaskiMikeSpreitzer1: how would you title the current ML discussion?  I'm not exactly sure where it left off15:41
shane-wangI bet a lot of competition15:41
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russellbglikson: not sure15:42
russellbhave to run for lunch, ttyl guys!15:42
MikeSpreitzer1Well, there have been a few topics in ML.  I am most directly involved in discussion of API (including model) for policy to inform joint decision-making15:42
MikeSpreitzer1(at first just joint in nova)15:43
alaski#topic APIs for Smart Resource Placement15:43
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MikeSpreitzer1this is step 1 on garyk's three step roadmap; later steps include supporting lower level APIs and implementation.15:43
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MikeSpreitzer1I think we are pretty converged on the model15:44
MikeSpreitzer1Biggest open question is whether Policy gets its own lifecycle...15:44
alaskiMikeSpreitzer1: I just want to clarify that the reason to target Nova first, or any project really is just to get some work done.  This topic has come up before but never really got beyond discussion, except for the current Instance Group work15:44
MikeSpreitzer1I do not think it ruins anything, I just think it's an unnecessary nuisance.15:44
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MikeSpreitzer1alaski: +115:44
MikeSpreitzer1I am willing to live with Policy having its own lifecycle, if that's what it takes to get an agreement.15:45
MikeSpreitzer1The other question about Policy is scope.  That's really an airy thing, at most a matter of naming, at this point.15:45
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YathiIt is the idea of a Policy model applying outside the scope of an INstance group15:46
YathiHence the suggestion for a Policy to have its own lifecycle15:46
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YathiNot sure if we want to start that discussion here.15:47
YathiIn terms of the ML discussions for identifying15:47
MikeSpreitzer1Well, does anybody have anything to add?15:47
alaskithis is a good place for it.  we can hash things out more quickly than on the ML15:47
Yathi'unconference' topics - are we do that here ?15:47
alaskiYathi: I think we should see what scheduler sessions are accepted and then look at the unconference15:48
Yathialaski: agreed.. the last 3 - 4 scheduler meetings we have made good discussions, and I really liked it15:48
Yathialaski: ok15:48
MikeSpreitzer1So, anything to add to the ML discussion about Policy objects?15:49
Yathiso do you like the latest update to the model diagram15:49
toan-tranI'm new to th group15:49
toan-tranI've read the desc of policy15:50
toan-trani agee with yathi15:50
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toan-tranthat it's indepdent and can have its own cycle15:50
YathiLike I expressed in the email,  let's limit the INstanceGroupPolicy to have only a reference to a policy that is persisted separately and with a lifecycle of its own15:50
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Yathithis common "Policy" object can be used by other InstanceGroups if applicable..15:51
toan-tranYathi: +115:51
MikeSpreitzer1Yathi: I understand your argument, and can live with your revised model.  If nobody has any additional considerations, I move for unanimous consent on that model.15:51
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Yathialaski: do you have any comments ?15:52
MikeSpreitzer1(except that maybe there is a little redundancy that I mentioned in private email)15:52
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alaskiUnfortunately other work considerations have kept me from completely understanding the ML discussion right now15:52
MikeSpreitzer1(both policy_uuid and policy_id field in reference object)15:53
alaskiso I'm okay with the general consensus15:53
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YathiMikeSpreitzer1: I think we have a general consensus15:53
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Yathiregarding the other objects in the API model - I hope they look okay too?15:54
gliksonYathi, MS: do we have a clear view of instance groups may evolve to include things other than servers?15:54
MikeSpreitzer1Yes, the rest of the model is OK.  I sent a note about generalizing attachment from groups to allow resources, don't know if anybody noticed or cared.15:54
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alaskiglikson: great question, I'm also interested to understand that15:55
MikeSpreitzer1glikson: I think it's easy, just exapnd the set of resources that can appear in a group15:55
Yathiyeah the instance like I mention in the document, can refer to any resource15:55
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glikson..only that no other resources exist in Nova DB :-)15:55
Yathian InstanceGroupMember has a member_id and this id can refer to any resource's UUID15:55
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Yathiglikson: we are starting within Nova15:55
MikeSpreitzer1glikson: right, expanding kinds of resources allowed is connected to later generalizing beyond nova15:56
Yathibut we expect to have a global state repository -15:56
alaskiIs there a path to breaking this out of Nova though15:56
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Yathithis is part of the Smart Resource Placement bigger idea15:56
MikeSpreitzer1ooh, good question15:56
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Yathibut starting within Nova first15:56
MikeSpreitzer1I think it can be relatively easy to evolve the API, it will be harder with the implementation.15:56
gliksonyeah, so the question is whether merging all the schedulers into one is the only way going forward.. I was wondering whether a more distributed approach would make sense.15:57
MikeSpreitzer1Nobody is proposing to change the existing schedulers, I think15:57
toan-tranone small question: where does user add Connection & Metadata to a group?15:57
Yathiglikson: we have not fully come to that conclusion yet15:57
alaskiyeah, the API is what i'm interested in.  What does that need to look like as this moves out of Nova15:57
Yathialso, the existing schedulers will continue to work as is15:57
toan-tranI saw POST instance, but not connection15:57
MikeSpreitzer1I note that the existing schedulers can all (more or less) be told a decision already was made by client15:57
gliksonYathi: I don't see how the two can co-exist.. can you elaborate?15:58
alaskiMikeSpreitzer1: sort of.  They can, but there are no guarantees that it will listen15:58
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MikeSpreitzer1alaski: I see making that fully true as a relatively small and easy evolution15:58
Yathiglikson: no concrete thoughts yet, but the idea is for a pluggable scheduler, depending on the current request, hence the existing schedulers can exist15:59
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MikeSpreitzer1alaski: I mean, let us (when we add holistic scheduling) make the individual existing schedulers all willing to really accept a decision from the client15:59
Yathithe POC code I pushed for a smart solver-based scheduler is a new driver that works within Nova15:59
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alaskiMikeSpreitzer1: agreed.  In my opinion I would like to rework that API though.  get right of scheduler hints and design a better api, since ripping out scheduler hints isn't much at this point16:00
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Yathiguys I think we will need to continue this next time or in the ML16:00
MikeSpreitzer1alaski: OK, refining APIs is good.  But later in our roadmap.  For now I am satisfied to expect it can be done.16:00
alaskiwell, we're at time16:00
gliksonalaski: any chance you can come up with a brief summary of your thoughts on this?16:00
alaskiglikson: which one?  multiple schedulers?16:01
MikeSpreitzer1I'll be watching the ML16:01
gliksonalaski: no, reworked API, hints, etc16:01
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alaskiglikson: basically I find the hints api lacking.  Based on current work let's see what sort of placement api makes sense and move towards that16:02
Yathiwe are yet to get to the implementation details behind how the API work will lead to the actual scheduling16:02
alaskibut we should give up the channel now16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:02
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 15 16:02:39 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:02
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-10-15-15.01.html16:02
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-10-15-15.01.txt16:02
alaskiThanks everyone16:02
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-10-15-15.01.log.html16:02
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primeministerp#startmeeting hyper-v16:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 15 16:03:49 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"16:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v'16:03
primeministerphi everyone16:04
alexpilottihi there!16:04
luis_fdezhello :)16:04
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dansmith<-- lurking16:04
primeministerpluis_fdez: hi luis, I responded to your last irc via email16:04
primeministerpdansmith: hi dan16:04
luis_fdezprimeministerp, thanks I saw it :)16:04
alexpilottidansmith: hi lurking dan! :-)16:05
primeministerpso guys, sorry for the dely but I just sent out an agenda16:05
primeministerp#topic hyper-v driver splitting discussion16:05
*** openstack changes topic to "hyper-v driver splitting discussion (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"16:05
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primeministerpso there's been a lot of discussion on the list16:05
primeministerpas of late16:05
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primeministerpalexpilotti: would you like to summarize16:06
alexpilottiquite a long discussion on the ML indeed :-)16:06
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alexpilottiwe're trying to find a solution to make everybody happy16:07
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alexpilottilet's see from where to start:16:07
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alexpilotti1) The Nova teams and the hyper-v teams are basically partitioned16:08
alexpilottithe Hyper-V driver team does not commit code to Nova and vice versa16:09
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alexpilotti2) the Hyper-V driver code is completely decoupled from Nova16:09
alexpilotti(live any other driver on this planet, I'd say :-) )16:09
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alexpilotti3) review time issues and priority management are making this sub-project completely unmanageable for us16:11
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alexpilottiin particular the H3 phase was a hell16:11
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alexpilottilots of interdependent patches which got practically impossible to handle16:12
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alexpilottiwe managed somehow, thanks also to the Nova core devs help in the last 2 days of H316:12
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alexpilottiwe missed a couple of BPS, retargeted for Icehouse16:13
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alexpilottibut what is really bothering IMO, os that we have a couple of high priority bug fixes which didn't merge16:14
alexpilottiso we'll need to ship Havana with a couple of patches coming off the tree16:14
alexpilottiI definitely don't want to face this situation again16:14
alexpilottiin particular IMO we need an independent bug triaging and review mechamism16:15
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alexpilottiand most important, blueprints and bugs prioritisation16:16
alexpilottiI see only a few options here:16:16
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alexpilotti1) we move the code somewhere else in a separate repo (e.g.: cloudbase/nova)16:16
alexpilotti2) we move the code somewhere else in a separate repo in OpenStack (e.g.: openstack/nova-driver-hyperv)16:17
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alexpilottierrata: on 1) it was meant to be: cloudbase/nova-driver-hyperv16:17
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alexpilotti3) we find a solution in which we get +2 rights in our subtree: nova/virt/hyperv and nova/tests/virt/hyperv16:18
alexpilottiI'm particularly keen on 2)16:19
alexpilottiwhich means go to incubation (stackforge), remove the code from Nova and graduate with the next release16:19
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alexpilottithere's also another advantage:16:20
alexpilottipeople wanting to install the Hyper-V driver, would simply:16:20
alexpilottipip install nova-driver-hyperv16:20
alexpilottiI found quite funny that our code gets uselessly installed on every Linux box running Nova, but I have to say it's quite amusing :-)16:21
primeministerpdansmith: you weren't too fond of the second option would you care discuss now?16:22
alexpilottiWe still want to help Nova, as I keep on saying we have new community contributors will be dedicated to that16:22
alexpilottibut we definitely want to be independent16:22
dansmithprimeministerp: that's true, I'm not, but no I don't really want to discuss it here16:22
primeministerpdansmith: would you rather save it for the summit?16:22
dansmithprimeministerp: yes16:22
primeministerpdansmith: fair enough16:22
alexpilottidansmith primeministerp: I'm fine with it. Only one question:16:23
alexpilottiwhile creating a separate repo is our call, pulling the code from the Nova repo is a decision that the Nova team has to take16:24
alexpilottiand what we ant to avoid at any cost, is that users might be confused on what version of the code to use16:25
alexpilottithere must be one single official repo, that's IMO mandatory16:25
alexpilottidansmith: if we plan to move out, do you think that you guys could mark the hyper-V code in nova as deprecated or, possible, remove it from the tree?16:26
alexpilottidansmith: a "no comment" answer is fair enough as well :-)16:26
dansmithalexpilotti: I'm not sure if a deprecation cycle is needed if there is an alternative, and I can't speak for the rest of the team, but my feeling is that if you decide to go out of tree, we'll support you16:27
alexpilottidansmith: ok thanks!16:27
dansmithsupport, meaning, support you in removing it from the tree, avoiding confusion, etc16:27
alexpilottisure :-)16:27
primeministerpok thanks for the comments dansmith16:27
primeministerpso enough on that topic, alexpilotti do we need more discussion regarding the bugs?16:28
alexpilottiI'd like to list them at least16:28
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primeministerp#topic active bugs16:29
*** openstack changes topic to "active bugs (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"16:29
alexpilottito make sure people are aware that they need to pull the fixes from outside of openstack/nova16:29
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alexpilottifetching the links:-)16:29
alexpilotti#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49269/16:30
alexpilottiFixes Hyper-V issue with VHD file format16:30
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alexpilottithis one is quite critical16:30
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alexpilottibasically no fixed VHDs can be deployed16:30
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alexpilottisince psalmist every sane person uses dynamic VHDs, is not a huge problem16:31
alexpilottibug might still generate confusion16:31
mriedemalexpilotti: have you pinged kevin or sean about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49269/ ?16:31
alexpilottiit's a very small bug fix that can be used as a manifesto about why we want to be out of Nova16:31
alexpilottimriedem: I'm tired go review pestering16:32
alexpilottimriedem: I saw that even you tried to ping sdague, with no reply16:32
mriedemalexpilotti: well, sdague is busy most of the time, so was wondering if someone brought it to his attention16:33
alexpilottithis sdague's type of reviews are also a good reason to move out, frankly16:33
mriedemthat's what i've had to do in the nova meeting before16:33
mriedemdoes anyone from hyper-v attend the weekly nova meeting? that's the best place to bring up stuff like getting core eyes on these patches (at least in my experience)16:33
alexpilottimriedem: I used to, but frankly I prefer to concentrate on the Hyper-V meetings :-)16:34
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alexpilottimriedem: this review begging approach looks like an old schools bureaucracy16:35
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alexpilottiwhat I really don't get, is how come the Nova guys don't get that the team won't scale ever16:35
mriedemalexpilotti: my point on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49269/ is that it had a +2 from a core, another core asked you to change something, you did, so it could just be brought up directly in IRC or the nova meeting and it would probably have movement16:36
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mriedemalexpilotti: with sdague you probably have to ping directly because he's usually working on infra16:36
mriedemwhich is extremely time consuming16:36
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mriedemanyway, was just asking, don't mean to derail here16:36
primeministerpmriedem: no worries thanks for the input16:37
alexpilottimriedem: do you think that a management system where the only way to get a review is obliging people to do it is a sane approach? :-)16:37
mriedemalexpilotti: i don't think we want to get into that here16:37
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alexpilottimriedem: BTW you've been amazingly helpful during this release cycle16:37
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mriedemalexpilotti: that's because ibm is using the hyper-v driver16:37
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alexpilottimriedem: to be sincere, if we have to move out, we'll miss you :-)16:38
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* mriedem blushes16:38
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alexpilottimriedem: good, so you'll have to come with us! :-)16:38
mriedemalexpilotti: naw, as i stated in the mailing list, i want the powervm driver to stay in tree16:39
mriedemit's kind of apples and oranges between those drivers though16:39
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alexpilottiyeah, I don't think that one size fits all on this discussion16:40
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alexpilottiother bug:16:40
alexpilotti#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/48267/16:40
alexpilottithis is a true 1 liner :-)16:40
alexpilottiFixes unicode issue in the Hyper-V driver16:41
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alexpilottithis is also related to mriedem's colleagues in China16:41
mriedemyeah, that's why i was on that one too16:41
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alexpilottiin Nova nobody gave a damn about this one16:42
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alexpilottithe fact that an entire continent won't be able to issue a Nova boot is less important than defining which is the right parameter to pass to "encode"16:42
alexpilottithat's IMHO, quite astonishing16:43
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alexpilottiIMO when similar bugs arise, you can spend a reasonable amount of time to see if there are better fixes16:43
alexpilottibut at some point it just has to merge16:44
alexpilottiwith a note if required16:44
alexpilottiand this is another typical case in which a Nova centralised bug management simply fails16:44
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alexpilottiwe're going to release our installer with all those bugs fixed, that's for sure16:45
alexpilottiand we're definitely available to help anybody which is distributing Nova Hyper-V code in getting the right fixes in place16:45
primeministerpalexpilotti: thanks for all your help with this16:46
primeministerpok let's move quickly to the last topic i wanted to cover16:46
primeministerpluis_fdez: ping16:46
primeministerp#topic puppet modules16:46
*** openstack changes topic to "puppet modules (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"16:46
luis_fdezprimeministerp, yeps16:46
primeministerpluis_fdez: just want to get on the same page here16:46
primeministerpluis_fdez: so refactoring is continuning moving as much to the windows_common and other modules16:47
primeministerpluis_fdez: i've been cleaning a lot of that while here16:47
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primeministerpluis_fdez: please make sure you update prior16:47
luis_fdezok I'll rebase my code with your commits16:47
primeministerpluis_fdez: additionally i'm going to have vijay start testing what we have16:47
primeministerpluis_fdez: i've put most of the other "msi" type installations into the same format as the windows_git module16:48
primeministerpluis_fdez: it's almost a template16:48
luis_fdezperfect, his tests are really worth to have16:48
primeministerpluis_fdez: so I'll have him start that todata16:48
primeministerper today16:48
primeministerpluis_fdez: additionally I'm all for the hyper-v instance type16:48
primeministerpluis_fdez: although it's lower priority16:49
primeministerpluis_fdez: anything else you want to add?16:49
luis_fdezno, refactoring and testing16:49
primeministerpthat's all i have for now16:49
primeministerpanyone have anything else they want to add?16:50
primeministerpok then, i'll close the meeting16:50
primeministerpthanks everyone16:50
luis_fdezalexpilotti, thanks for the updates about metadata ;)16:50
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:50
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 15 16:50:34 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:50
alexpilottiluis_fdez: np!16:50
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-10-15-16.03.html16:50
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-10-15-16.03.txt16:50
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-10-15-16.03.log.html16:50
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* ayoung turns on the lights and puts a water bottle on everyone's desk.17:57
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* lbragstad starts peeling the label off17:58
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* ayoung hands a copy of https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting to gyee17:58
morganfainbergayoung, i thought we agreed whiskey this time around.17:58
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morganfainbergayoung, ahh right!17:59
ayoungmorganfainberg, if I drink during a meeting I lose my voice17:59
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ayoungmorganfainberg, had my class reunion and , in honor of our class, the Bar had a drink called a Treekiller.  Guinness with a shot of Crown Royal Maple18:00
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morganfainbergayoung, not sure if i'd go for that.18:00
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ayoungtwas good18:00
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morganfainbergayoung, it sounds interesting at least18:00
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morganfainbergoh look i see keystone types.18:02
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* ayoung hands out copies of the agenda18:02
dolphm_oh great, we have a "type" now18:02
ayoung https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting18:02
morganfainbergdolphm_, yeah… we do.18:02
gyeeayoung's favorite subject, HTML :)18:02
dolphm_#startmeeting keystone18:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 15 18:02:57 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dolphm_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:03
ayounggyee, not favorite, just one of the many things to go through in order to get back to standards18:03
bknudsonis keystone going to support application/x-www-form-urlencoded18:03
dolphm_#topic Havana18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Havana (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
ayoungbknudson, wait till we get there18:03
dolphm_#yay RC218:03
bknudsonon to RC318:03
ayoungdolphm_, one thing came up from Fedora packaging is memcached version18:03
dolphm_AFAIK we won't have an RC318:03
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dolphm_if that's the case, then RC2 *is* havana18:04
gyeelike final final?18:04
dolphm_like final final final18:04
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morganfainbergayoung, fedora has what 1.47? keystone was assuming 1.48 for cas?18:04
* gyee waves his hands like a casino dealer18:04
ayoung#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/123989218:04
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1239892 in keystone "Version for python-memcached not specified" [Low,New]18:04
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dolphm_gyee: i don't know what that looks like, but yes18:04
ayoungmorganfainberg, yeah, and there is no way to communicate it beside requirements.txt18:04
ayoungbut memcached is just a tes-requires18:05
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dolphm_doesn't that bug apply to keystoneclient as well?18:05
ayoungmorganfainberg, the numbers were 1.48 and 1.53 I thought, but you are roughly correct18:05
ayoungdolphm_, client doesn't much care18:05
morganfainbergayoung, hrm i just chased this down a couple weeks ago for bknudson18:05
ayoungit is a test-and-set thing, and client doesn't make use of it18:05
ayoungmorganfainberg, if you have more recent data, please update the bug.  I am just going from memory.  Dealt with this back in July I think18:06
morganfainbergdolphm_, before a certain version the memcache python lib leaks memory like a sieve, so they added an option to no track cas ids unless explicitly "turned" on in later versions18:06
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dolphm_ah, i remember that18:07
morganfainbergayoung, before whatever version added that init kwarg all transactions saved cas ids, regardless, and nothing ever cleans that up18:07
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dolphm_#topic Reserved migration numbers for havana18:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Reserved migration numbers for havana (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:08
ayoungmorganfainberg, yeah, and since Keystone server depends on that now with the memcached backends, it breaks on Fedora.  I suspect Ubuntu LTS too18:08
morganfainbergayoung, nope LTS is fine18:08
morganfainbergwell, lucid no, precise yes18:08
morganfainberglucid is likely broken…but iirc that is EOL now18:08
bknudsonjust need to add some extra migrations? is it just for core or for extensions too?18:09
morganfainbergoh.  apr 2015 =/ boo18:09
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ayoungdolphm_, what is the impetus for reserving the migration numbers?18:10
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atiwariwondering if we can accommodate https://review.openstack.org/#/c/50488/ in upcoming RC?18:10
dolphm_allowing ourselves room to backport migrations as part of bug fixes18:10
bknudsonyou can do cleanups post-grizzly and pre-havana necessary18:10
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ayoungdolphm_, that will mess up people tracking the main18:11
morganfainbergayoung, i know nova did it for (i think) grizzly.  not sure if i like the idea though18:12
dolphm_ayoung: the idea is that we merge a bunch of empty migrations to master right now18:12
dolphm_before we have a real migration18:12
bknudsondid nova actually use it?18:12
morganfainbergbknudson, don't know, but they had the empty ones.18:12
dolphm_they've done it again for havana18:12
dolphm_nova milestone-proposed: https://github.com/openstack/nova/tree/milestone-proposed/nova/db/sqlalchemy/migrate_repo/versions18:12
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dolphm_nova master: https://github.com/openstack/nova/tree/master/nova/db/sqlalchemy/migrate_repo/versions18:13
bknudsonlooks like nova used it a couple time?18:13
gyeeso many empty migrations?18:13
bknudsonwait, no they didn't...18:13
dolphm_i'd like the headroom-- i was wondering if anyone was strongly opposed18:13
bknudsonsince wasn't updated in 7 months18:13
dolphm_gyee: i think 10 would be a lot for us18:13
ayoungdolphm_, then if someone on a dev branch runs the migrations, they are SOL18:13
dolphm_ayoung: a dev branch?18:14
morganfainbergdolphm_, master18:14
ayoungdolphm_, someone like, oh, Racksapce, that tracks master18:14
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ayoungremember how much trouble we caused when we went back and rewrote migrations in Grizzly18:14
jamielennoxdolphm_: does it matter? if we are backporting these fixes what is wrong with just tacking the migrations on to the end?18:15
dolphm_rackspace certainly doesn't track master on keystone18:15
bknudsonjamielennox: the numbers are sequential18:15
bknudsoncouldn't have a 161 and another 16118:15
dolphm_and i have no idea whether rackspace uses nova's migrations18:15
gyeedoes it have to be sequential?18:15
gyeecan we have a gap?18:16
bknudsongyee: that's how sqlalchemy-migrate tracks it, it keeps the version #.18:16
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dolphm_that'd be a good question for the next 'we track master' presentation at the summit lol18:16
bknudsongyee: we can have a gap18:16
ayoungdolphm_, I'm sure you know better than I do, but one of the people that yelled loudest was a Racker18:16
jamielennoxright, it means that a backported migration number may not be the same in dev/stable18:16
gyeebknudson, why can we say for IceHouse we start with 100 or something18:16
dolphm_ayoung: i'm curious if you remember who that was18:16
morganfainbergjamielennox, how do you reconsile the change then… if say rev 037 and 045 do teh same thing?18:16
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bknudsongyee: hmm, not sure why that wouldn't work.18:16
morganfainbergbknudson, you need placeholders or you need to set the config to start at a fixed "known" number18:17
ayoungso...this is why we really should have each of the various modules in their own migration repo.  It minimizes the possbility of clash.  Doesn't remove it completely, but it is a lot more granular.  Identity should not depend on token etc.  That is why the extensions at least are now split out18:17
morganfainbergyou can't have just a gap.18:17
jamielennoxgyee: not sure if gaps are a good idea, because later if you come along and db_sync it will say ok i'm at eg 50 and start from there, missing all the migrations from the gap18:17
dolphm_gaps would be confusing, if nothing else18:18
ayoungjamielennox, +118:18
jamielennoxthat probably throws out changing migration numbers as well18:18
dolphm_on the other hand, 10 migrations that run successfully give the illusion of stability (they just happen to be no-ops)18:18
bknudsonnova has a big gap at beginning (it starts at 133)18:18
morganfainbergbknudson, the config says to start there though.18:19
dolphm_bknudson: that's not a gap though18:19
morganfainbergbknudson, they collapse each release18:19
ayoungwe haven't needed this so far.  What happens if we don't skip numbers?18:19
gyeewe should wrap db_sync to skip the prompt if we know the gap number18:19
dolphm_bknudson: that's a collapsed migration of 1 -> 13318:19
bknudsonhttps://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/db/sqlalchemy/migrate_repo/migrate.cfg doesn't have 133 ?18:19
dolphm_bknudson: ish18:19
ayoungIIRC we were going to collapse all of the pre-grizz revisions this time around.18:19
dolphm_ ^18:19
jamielennoxdolphm_: but the same thing would happen right? if you upgrade from stable to dev or to the next stable your db will think it has run a bunch of migrations that are no-ops and not do it next tim18:19
ayoungjamielennox, that is correct18:20
dolphm_jamielennox: the no-ops land in master18:20
dolphm_jamielennox: not in stable18:20
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ayoungdolphm_, I don't think we have that freedom18:20
ayoungI am pretty sure that skipping is a mistake18:21
dolphm_ayoung: it's not skipping18:21
ayoungit is18:21
gyeehow about do the gap and modify db_sync to automagically generate the no-opts?18:21
ayounggyee, it will break people that track master18:21
dolphm_ayoung: empty migrations in master mean that you can write migrations in stable18:21
ayoungno you can't18:21
jamielennoxdolphm_: so the same thing will happen in master then, if you bug fix a migration in one of these no-ops it won't be run next time you do a db_sync18:21
dolphm_the migrations that a stable -> master upgrade will skip are just empty migrations18:22
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bknudsonwould be interesting to know if nova ever used this and what it was for.18:22
bknudsonbut as far as I can tell nova did not use it.18:22
ayoungit means that the state of the database is not reflected buy the version number18:22
ayoungso two dbs at version 50 are in different states, with no way to tell which18:22
bknudsonyou would have to be very careful18:22
ayoungand you cannot rerun the migrations without corrupting the database18:22
jamielennoxfrom memory this was something that alembic solved nicely, but not pushing that argument again18:23
bknudsonmight need to do both a placeholder and a new migration in havana18:23
bknudsonoops, icehouse I mean18:23
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jamielennoxbknudson: but then stable icehouse would have two migrations doing the same thing18:23
ayoungjamielennox, sort of.  It marks each migrations with a hash, like git18:23
gyeek, placeholder then, seems like that's less of the two SOLs18:23
morganfainbergayoung, i am thinking we should do the work in icehouse to split up the modules, regardless if we have placeholders.18:23
bknudsonthe new migration would have to check if the placeholder ran first18:23
dolphm_ya'll are way over thinking this18:24
ayoungjamielennox, and...that might be the best solution.  We do alembic for Icehouse, and add no-new migrations via sql-a18:24
morganfainberg(easier once/if we do the collapse)18:24
bknudsonI'd prefer to have the placeholders since it doesn't hurt anything.18:25
bknudsonare we running short of numbers for sqlalchemy-migrate?18:25
ayoungthen we make a SQL-A migration for stable, we can optionally apply a commit in alembic.  Not sure how that will work in practice, though18:25
ayoungbknudson, yeah, lopusy supplier ran out18:25
dolphm_#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-March/006827.html18:25
dolphm_everyone go read ^ this week, and don't approve any db migrations until next meeting :)18:26
dolphm_#topic PEP8 public/internal18:26
*** openstack changes topic to "PEP8 public/internal (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:26
dolphm_bknudson: o/18:26
bknudsonI added this one, just wanted to point out that I started work on it.18:26
bknudsonturns out python-keystoneclient is smaller than I thought18:26
* morganfainberg cheers for bknudson on starting this.18:26
bknudsonfirst step was updating __init__.py's with __all__ = [ ... ]18:26
bknudsonso this lists which modules or packages have public parts18:27
bknudsonalso, started a etherpad...18:27
bknudsonwhich has a list of all modules/packages so you can see the list easier18:27
jamielennoxbknudson: love most of it, disagree with renaming tests -> _tests18:27
dolphm_#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/KeystonePep8PublicInternal18:27
dolphm_#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/51415/18:27
bknudsonwell, the PEP8 standard says if it's not public then should be prefix with _18:28
bknudsonI don't make the rules18:28
ayoungbknudson, tests are public18:28
ayoungbknudson, they just don't get packaged up18:28
bknudsonayoung: if they're public then we can't change them.18:29
ayoungbut tempest shoudl be able to call our tests18:29
gyeeayoung, public interface18:29
jamielennoxtests need to get run by package maintainers, then optionally get excluded from the eventual package18:29
ayoungbknudson, yes we can18:29
dolphm_bknudson: where does PEP8 talk about "internal modules"18:29
bknudson#link http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#public-and-internal-interfaces18:29
ayoungbknudson, public in this case is different from the public API.  tests are meant tbe dynamically enumerated and run18:29
ayoungbut the standard for enumerating tests is that the names must start with test_18:30
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gyeeayoung, tempest shouldn't be calling our tests, that would compromise the integrity of the tests18:30
bknudsonthe _tests module is internal so everything in it is internal18:30
ayounggyee, wrong18:30
dolphm_i think i consider keystoneclient.tests itself to be public18:30
bknudsontests isn't part of the api.18:30
gyeetempest is integrated tests no?18:31
dstaneki agree with ayoung that test really are public18:31
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bknudsonI'm fine with leaving tests as it is.18:31
ayounggyee, if you mean that we can change a commit and change a test at the same time, then, yes.  But that doesn not mean that temptest should not run our tests as well.18:31
ayoungIt is a migration path18:31
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dolphm_bknudson: it's part of *an* API, sort of... just not python lib's api18:31
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ayoungso we write a test in, say keystone for keystone client, and make sure it runs in tempests.  Later on, we can move the test from the keystone repo to tempest18:32
gyeeayoung, why two different gates runs the same tests? I don't get it18:32
gyeethat's redundant18:32
jamielennoxalso there is a lot of precedent for having a package level tests directory18:32
dolphm_i don't understand either18:32
ayounggyee, well, because we don't ruyn unit tests against the live DBs18:32
ayounggyee, but tempest should18:32
ayoungsame with LDAP18:32
dolphm_bknudson: i do agree with jamielennox's notion that as little should be public as we can get away with18:33
ayoungunit tests = SQLite.  Functional tests = Postgresql, MySQL, OpenLDAP, and to make the IBMers happy, DB218:33
dolphm_IBMers are people too18:34
gyeethey are not unit tests by definition18:34
stevemarthanks for making us happy ayoung18:34
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gyeelive tests are not unit tests18:34
ayoungstevemar, it is purely selfish.  I want you to review my code18:34
bknudsonwe'll have db2 tempest tests in icehouse18:34
gyeelive tests are integrated tests18:34
bknudsonanyway, please take  look at the etherpad and update if you know more about the client.18:35
ayounggyee, exactly.  SQLite is not a real DB. So test run against it are unit tests.  TEsts run against MySQL are integrating our code with the production DB18:35
bknudsonwe can discuss more later if there's further questions.18:35
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ayoungwe just happen to use the unit test code as part of that integration testing18:35
ayounghence, tempest should consume keystone/tests and python-keystonclient/tests18:35
ayounghorse is dead18:35
gyeesounds pretty messy18:36
gyeeanyway, move on18:36
dolphm_#topic open discussion18:36
ayoungbknudson, rest of it is good.  I hand over the conch18:36
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:36
dolphm_there's LOTS of code reviews on the meeting agenda18:36
ayoungHTML. Please remove the -218:36
dolphm_#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting18:36
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ayounglet the masses discuss and we can decide as a group18:36
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bknudsonI'm not a fan of adding complexity of HTML.18:37
gyeeI am not sure about opening the can of HTML :)18:37
jamielennoxdolphm_: i had the topic up for the keystoneclient blueprints18:37
bknudsonwe barely support XML18:37
bknudsonmaybe if we dropped XML I'd be OK with HTML18:37
dolphm_bknudson: ++18:37
gyeeXML is pretty messy as is18:37
ayoungbknudson, complexity is contained within the marshalling code18:37
jamielennoxi really want either approval or changes to the APIclient and discovery blueprints  - and then get some reviews happening18:37
ayoungXML is used by some people for integration18:37
bknudsonif the marshalling code was cleaner then maybe I wouldn't have a problem18:37
jamielennoxthere are first patches for both and they see may 1 review / 2 weeks18:38
dolphm_jamielennox: i try to maintain the "Code reviews" section of the meeting agenda with stuff that's current -- it doesn't have to be specific to keystone18:38
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dolphm_ayoung: are you going to support IE6?18:38
ayoungbknudson, well, that is what the code review is there for.  dolphm_ had -2ed it last release, saying it needed to be self contained.  It is now, but still has the -2 on it18:38
atiwariwondering if we can accommodate https://review.openstack.org/#/c/50488/ in upcoming RC?18:38
jamielennoxdolphm_: I was more looking for a yes/no on blueprints at the moment - then i can at least hassle people to follow allong18:38
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ayoungdolphm_, Personally? No18:38
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bknudsonwhat do you think about using jsonschema for input validation?18:39
dolphm_ayoung: --18:39
morganfainbergdolphm_, we should support IE4 for mac.18:39
dolphm_ayoung: how can i apply my company's branding to keystone's HTML interface?18:39
bknudsonI'm a little worried about our lack of input validation today as is18:39
ayoungdolphm_, I am going to support a minimal HTML format18:39
jamielennoxbknudson: i'm a fan, i'd be interested in looking at the wsme and such that is being proposed as well18:39
bknudsonif we have jsonschema for input validation then that might also be helpful for html18:39
morganfainbergbknudson, i am for validation w/ jsonschema.  heck, more validation ++18:39
ayoungbknudson, IMHO that is backwards18:40
morganfainbergregardless of tech.18:40
ayoungJSON is only one marshalling format18:40
bknudsonwe could start adding validation all over the place, but doing it centrally would be saner18:40
ayoungJSON schema should be driven off the code and not the other way around18:40
bknudsonthe problem is we have no codification of what structures look like and what are the types allowed18:40
bknudsone.g., if you pass an int for your password18:40
ayounghey, no fair hacking my password.  What is wrong with 123418:41
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dolphm_ayoung: which html standard?18:41
dolphm_ayoung: is there going to be a mobile friendly interface?18:42
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ayoungdolphm_, no, and no18:42
dolphm_ayoung: how do i apply my own CSS?18:42
ayoungdolphm_, ah18:42
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dolphm_ayoung: i'd like the background color to be cornflower blue18:42
bknudsonhere was my example, did "methods": "password",18:42
ayoungthat is a good question.  We provide a config option which is the css file.  The deployes can optionally add their own18:42
dolphm_ayoung: no no sunflower yellow18:42
bknudsonresult is "Expecting to find p in identity. The server could not comply with the request since it is either malformed18:42
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ayoungKeystone core does not support the CSS18:42
gyeeI'd like a animated git18:42
bknudsonso I used a string for methods in auth request18:42
dolphm_gyee: ++18:42
morganfainberggyee, just what we need!18:43
dolphm_ayoung: where do i put my static files?18:43
ayounggyee, I think I've been called an animated git before18:43
bknudsonand then it looked for each of the string elements in the methods18:43
ayoungdolphm_, its an URL.  where ever they can be reached18:43
gyeeanimated gif18:43
gyeemy bad18:43
ayoungdolphm_, I have not BPed up that, but it is not hard to solve.18:43
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ayoungdolphm_, I am just first stpe getting HTML rendering  supported in the simplest fashion18:43
dstanek_is there a lot of demand for HTML?18:44
dolphm_ayoung: which html standard?18:44
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jamielennoxbknudson: i'm having the same thing with the KDS stuff, some things have to be integers, some fields if you don't pass a date you'll get a 500 error18:44
dolphm_dstanek_: i count one demand18:44
gyeeayoung, all kidding aside, with federation, identity provider may serve up html form for login18:44
jamielennoxbknudson: and looking at past code i think there are a bunch of places where that sort of this would happen with TypeErrors18:44
morganfainbergi can say that the way it's implemented with FreeIPA (html acces), is pretty damn slick.18:44
ayounggyee, and with oauth, Keystone might need to do the same18:44
dolphm_ayoung: where do i put my google analytics ID?18:45
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bknudsonjamielennox: it's not fun to write that code or tests... I think the only way is to centralize it, and use a jsonschema or something.18:45
ayoungdolphm_, where the sun don't shine18:45
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bknudsonI don't really care if we jsonschema or something new for keystone18:45
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jamielennoxjsonschema happens on dictionaries after json.loads right, so if it's json/xml it doesn't matter18:46
ayoungdolphm_, there are a million things that can be extended.  If your objection is that we need to support a specific version of HTML and valirdate that, please provide that as feedback for the BP.18:46
dolphm_jamielennox: ?18:46
bknudsonjamielennox: I'm not sure how it works... would be a waste to have to convert it back to json!18:46
ayoungbknudson, agreeds, and we force that to be the case now18:47
jamielennoxbknudson: this is mainly going from the guy who was trying to do email validation in keystoneclient with jsonschema18:47
gyeebknudson, kesytone internal operate on json only18:47
ayoungeverything goes content -> JSON -> python18:47
ayounggyee, not really.  It operates on Python18:47
jamielennoxbknudson: so i'm not sure either, but i think it does18:47
ayoungjust that we force tit to go through JSON body first18:47
ayoungits not necessary18:48
bknudsonmaybe it's in the JSON body middleware18:48
gyeeayoung, its a dict anyway you slice it :)18:48
bknudsonmaybe validation is in the JSON body middleware18:48
jamielennoxdolphm_: i mean that i think jsonschema looks at the contents of a python dictionary, not the raw json, so the JSON and XML middlewares should produce the same thing and so jsonschema should handle both18:48
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bknudsonseems like it should be in controllers18:48
jamielennoxbknudson: the problem is that our wsgi layer mangles the input to our controllers18:49
jamielennoxso if i have input { "a": 1, "b": 2} it will come through to the controller as def method(self, a, b):18:49
atiwaridolphm_,gyee and ayoung: any agreement on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37141 yet?18:49
inkerra_howdy, guys, sorry for interrupting you... I just wanna make a note to draw your attention to quotas: the work on them has been resumed, the deficiencies in the design have been addressed:18:49
inkerra_#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37545/18:50
ayoungatiwari, it looked good when we discusssed it yesterday.  I do want to raise the question of global vs service spevfifc roles being disjoint sets18:50
atiwarior can we have an id for global IDM roles18:51
ayoungatiwari's API review specifies that, in order to link a role to a service, it must always be linked to that service.  THus, we couldn't do, say, give a user admin, but only on glance, whereas another user gets admin on all services18:51
ayoungare we OK with this approach?  It seems somewhat arbitrary18:52
dolphm_inkerra_: nice, that spec is looking pretty good18:52
ayoungrole assignments are typically where we were linking to scope in the past18:52
ayoungso a user gets arole on a project or on a domain.  project/service seems like a reduction in scope that is reasonable18:52
gyeeayoung, it would be hard to answer questions like what are all the Glance roles out there without iterating through all the assignments18:54
atiwariayoung, how do you handle role collision in that case ?18:54
atiwarisuppose there are n number of service trying to have "admin" role18:54
jamielennoxok, so keystoneclient plug, can everyone have a look at the version discovery blueprint and review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38414/ let me know if you have any questions or concerns about the approach but something like this is needed18:55
gyee#link  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38414/18:55
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inkerra_dolphm_, tnx, welcome to review :)18:56
jamielennoxsome eyes on the session extraction review would be appreciated too18:56
jamielennox#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/43829/18:56
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ayoungjamielennox, just to be clear, discover is optional, right?  If I specify /v2.0 on the URL it won't force me through discovery, right?18:56
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ayoungatiwari, there is no collision.  The role name is admin.  If you have admin on glance, you can do admin tasks.18:57
jamielennoxif you call the discovery factory you will always hit the server, if you specify version=2 to the factory you will always get a v2 client18:57
bknudsonit seems to really not work now to leave off /v2.0 in the service catalog18:57
gyeedolphm_, can we add a session for fixing catalog in the upcoming summit if we haven't created one already?18:57
gyeeI can submit a bp if you like18:57
jamielennoxif you specify the url with /v2.0 it will hit the server and make sure that /v2.0 is supported at that endpoint18:57
bknudsonin short, pretty much need to use v2.0 still :(18:57
ayoungbknudson, that is part of what he is trying to fix18:58
dolphm_gyee: bp or summit discussion?18:58
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gyeedolphm_, don't we need both?18:58
jamielennoxbknudson: right, crusade for Icehouse is start moving people to v3 api and we need a discovery mechanism to do it18:58
gyeeI think it will have an impact on version discovery18:58
dolphm_gyee: i mean, is there not already a bp?18:58
ayoungjamielennox, one round trip.  If I go directly to a web page that doesn't exist, either 404 or redirect. The Client should act the same way.18:58
gyeediscovery in general18:58
dolphm_jamielennox: +++18:58
atiwariayoung, that means keystone is going define all the roles even for future service?18:59
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jamielennoxgyee: yea, the service catalog bugs me, but we need to have discovery in place otherwise when we point people to the root url they won't be able to use it18:59
ayoungNow, if I do discovery, the client should be able to remember it for a given service, at least for a limited time.  I'd hate to have to do multiple round trips for each operation, especially from auth_token middleware18:59
jamielennoxayoung: the client does nothing, if you know what you need you can instantiate a client and it will just be (as now), discovery will do one round trip19:00
ayoungatiwari, no, it means that the services might potentially both require the same role.19:00
gyeedolphm_, I see dns catalog and service relationship bps19:00
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jamielennoxayoung: gee i would love to have like a session object where i could cache these discovery requests then for future: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/43829/19:01
dstanek_a young, do we use cache control headers?19:01
ayoungjamielennox, right, but if auth_token does discovery, it should remember it, if only for a limitied time...but that won't work too well in the prefork model anyway19:01
morganfainbergdstanek_, we do not at the moment19:01
morganfainbergdstanek_, i believe we should.19:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:01
bknudsonnot setting cache-control seems like a bug, since then can't use a proxy19:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 15 19:01:53 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-10-15-18.02.html19:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-10-15-18.02.txt19:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-10-15-18.02.log.html19:01
dolphm_(sorry for going over!)19:01
ayoungdstanek, morganfainberg +1 on cache control header19:01
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jeblairci / infra people?19:02
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jeblair#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 15 19:02:59 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
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sdague<- lurking19:03
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jeblair#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting19:04
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jeblair#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-10-08-19.01.html19:04
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jeblair#topic Actions from last meeting19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
jeblair#action jeblair move tarballs.o.o and include 50gb space for heat/trove images19:05
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jeblairok, so i still didn't do that.  :(  sorry.  the 'quiet' periods where i think i'm going to do that keep being not quiet19:05
jeblairbut at least i think it's still low priority; i don't think it's impacting anything19:06
jeblairclarkb announced and executed the etherpad upgrade!19:06
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jeblairclarkb: thank you so much for that19:06
clarkbit seems to be holding up so far too19:06
jeblairi'm unaware of any issues, other than needing to remind people to force-reload occasionally19:06
fungiit's awesome! i can make text permanently monospace now and don't have to keep resetting my personal prefs instead19:07
clarkbalso we theoretically have bup backups for that host now, but I haven't done a recovery yet19:07
* mordred enjoys our new etherpad overlords19:07
sdagueyes, also headings now enabled, which makes organizing pads nicer19:07
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jeblair#topic Trove testing (mordred, hub_cap)19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Trove testing (mordred, hub_cap) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
jeblairmordred, hub_cap: what's the latest here, and are you blocked on any infra stuff?19:09
hub_capi just shot a msg to the room19:09
mordredI have done no additional work in this area.19:09
hub_capim going to take over the caching work19:09
hub_capso, looking @ the "image caching" job for the heat/trove images. i was wondering if it'd make sense to go the easy route, and just put a few more #IMAGE_URLS= into stackrc, and let the job automagically grab them19:09
hub_cap^ ^ sent to -infra, we can discuss offline if u want19:09
mordredI think that's probably a great first step19:09
mordredsince these ARE images that you're intending on using as part of a d-g run19:10
hub_capits a simple fix, and your nodepool stuff already grabs it19:10
jeblairmordred, hub_cap: do we have an etherpad plan for this somewhere?19:10
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* mordred feels like we did, but is not sure where19:10
hub_capclarkb: had one19:10
* hub_cap thought19:10
jeblairi can't recall whether our current thinking is that job runs on devstack-precise nodes, or ar we making a new nodepool image type...19:10
jeblairmordred: i think devstack-precise, right?19:11
mordredI think that devstack-precise was the current thinking - until proven otherwise19:11
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clarkbI started one with the notes that were on my whiteboard /me finds a link19:12
jeblairhub_cap: i think that would be fine, but it's also easy to throw them into the nodepool scripts.  so either way; probably depends on what devstack core thinks is appropriate.19:12
clarkb#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/testing-heat-trove-with-dib19:12
hub_capill ping sdague / dtroyer on the matter and see what they think19:12
hub_capits definitely the path of least resistance in terms of nodepool19:12
jeblairhub_cap: ok.  know where the nodepool scripts are if the answer swings the other way?19:12
hub_capyer already wget'ing the IMAGE_URL's and caching them19:13
sdaguehub_cap: didn't we just merge a big chunk of trove code?19:13
hub_capsdague: yes this is not trove specific persay19:13
* ttx <- lurking too19:13
hub_capits diskimage-builder image locations19:13
hub_capjeblair: itd be pretty simple scripting too19:13
hub_captalked w/ lifeless19:13
hub_caphe says its not worht our while to do more than a wget (as in, reading from the dib scripts like mordred and i talke dabout)19:14
lifelessnot yet anyhow. Crawl. Walk. Run.19:14
mordredk. great. then I think getting motion at all is great19:14
jeblairhub_cap: oh, so you're actually talking about the part where we get a dib image that has previously been published to tarballs.o.o, right?19:14
hub_capoh no im not19:14
jeblairhub_cap: ok, so you're talking about the job to create that image?19:15
hub_capim talking about caching the dib images that woud lnormally be downloaded19:15
jeblairhub_cap: which is the first bullet point on etherpad19:15
hub_capyes correct jeblair19:15
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jeblairhub_cap: what are the images you're talking about putting in IMAGE_URLS then?19:15
hub_capthen ill be working on some of the other bullet points19:15
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hub_capjeblair: sec19:15
mordredthe base ubuntu and fedora images19:15
mordredjeblair: the dib image build process starts with an upstream base cloud images19:16
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jeblairah, ok.  i don't think that changes any of the things we've said, except i understand them better now.  :)19:16
hub_capexample: http://cloud.fedoraproject.org/fedora-19.x86_64.qcow219:16
mordredjeblair: I agree :)19:16
jeblaircool, anything else on this topic?19:17
jeblairhub_cap: thanks19:17
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jeblair#topic Tripleo testing (mordred, clarkb, lifeless, pleia2)19:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Tripleo testing (mordred, clarkb, lifeless, pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:17
pleia2so I have a test nodepool up per mordred's instructions yesterday, debugging :)19:18
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jeblairpleia2: awesome; if you feel like committing those instructions to the repo, that'd be cool.  :)19:18
pleia2at the moment it's erroring with `No current image for tripleo-precise on tripleo-test-cloud` so I need to dig around a bit19:18
mordredpleia2: so - that's normal19:19
mordredit'll then run for a while and try to build a new imagre19:19
pleia2jeblair: great, will do, also found a list of dpkg dependencies needed if installing it on a new 12.04 vm19:19
funginot an error, just a debug message19:19
mordredpleia2: I'm assuming you have the creds for the grizzly cloud in your yaml file?19:19
pleia2oh, it kept repeating so I thought it was spinning19:19
pleia2mordred: yeah19:19
pleia2so I should just start it and let it run?19:20
jeblairmordred: ++ but also, if you end up shutting it down while it's doing that, if there's still a 'building' record in the db for that image, it _won't_ start trying to build a new one on restart, you'll need to 'nodepool image-delete' that record.19:20
* pleia2 makes so19:20
mordredjeblair: very true19:20
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jeblairpleia2: so make sure that ^ case doesn't apply, otherwise it really might not be doing anything19:20
mordredpleia2: nodepool image-list and nodepool image-delete are your friends19:20
pleia2great, thanks19:20
mordredmy instructions may not  be full docs19:20
fungipretty much all of nodepool-tabtab is full of awesome19:21
pleia2all the patches have merged, so it was nice not to have to apply those at least19:21
jeblairpleia2, mordred: also worth knowing -- once you get to the stage where it's actually running the scripts, the stderr from the ssh commands are output _after_ the stdout19:21
pleia2jeblair: thanks19:21
jeblairif anyone figures out the right way to get those interleaved correctly out of paramiko, i'll give them a cookie.19:21
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jeblairi sort of gave up and said "at least it's recorded" and moved on.19:22
mordredI like cookies19:22
jeblairthere's some serious magic going on in paramiko with those streams.19:22
mordredrelated to that, btw, now that I know how to nodepool test things, I'm going to nodepool against some of our potential other clouds19:23
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mordredthat may not be released or in prod yet19:23
jeblairmordred: nice.  isn't it exciting how each new cloud requires source changes?19:23
fungiexciting is not the word i'd choose19:24
mordredjeblair: yah. although - to be fair, I think that the grizzly cloud mostly just found issues for us - we didn't have to put in new behavior forks19:24
jeblairmordred: ok cool19:24
pleia2State: building :)19:25
mordredpleia2: w00t19:25
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jeblairanything else related to tripleo?19:25
pleia2I think that's it19:25
mordredthe tripleo cloud is deploying now19:25
mordredwhich means we're getting closer to it being non-destructively updating - at which point infra should be able to consume vms from it19:26
mordredor start thinking about doing that19:26
jeblairmordred: yay19:26
mordredjust for those who haven't been folowing along19:26
jeblair#topic Next bug day: Tuesday October 22nd at 1700UTC (pleia2)19:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Next bug day: Tuesday October 22nd at 1700UTC (pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:26
pleia2just a reminder, next week!19:26
jeblairi'm going to be at linuxcon eu then19:26
mordredme too19:27
jeblairi will try to show up if i can, but i may have to flake out this time19:27
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mordredme too19:27
fungii'll be here and bugtastic19:27
* clarkb wonders if jeblair and mordred find conferences that conflict with bug days on purpose :{19:27
clarkb* :P19:27
jeblair(i doubt rescheduling would change that)19:27
clarkbI will be around19:27
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pleia2jeblair: yeah, the next week gets mighty close to summit19:28
zaroi will be on my way to jenkins conf19:28
jeblairclarkb: s/bug days/work/ ? :)19:28
pleia2zaro: good luck with that! I've been sending folks your way :)19:29
jeblairzaro: where you will be speaking, yeah?19:29
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jeblair#topic Open discussion19:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:29
clarkbthis morning I started looking at upgrading a bunch of our logstash stuff19:30
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jeblairmy schedule for the next month is roughly: linuxcon eu for a week, vacation for a week, summit for a week, vacation for a week.19:30
clarkbbasically want to upgrade logstash to 1.2.1 which requires an elasticsearch upgrade to 0.90.3 and may require an upgrade to kibana319:30
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jeblairso i'm going to be in and out19:30
sdaguejeblair: when you thinking about laying out infra summit plan? there were a couple of sessions which could be either qa / infra and I wanted to figure out if I should add them to a track or you were19:30
fungii *will* be somewhat unavailable later in the week though. allthingsopen is wednesday and thursday and i want to catch at least some of it since it's local19:30
fungithe week==next week19:31
jeblairsdague: was planning on doing that next week, will that work for you?19:31
clarkbthere is a lot to change and while I *think* I can do it non destructively, I would like to be able to just do it more organically and if we lose data oh well19:31
mordredmy schedule is similar to jeblair's, except I'm doing many more conferences in that stretch19:31
pleia2thankfully I'm home for pretty much the rest of the year aside from summit19:31
sdaguejeblair: sure19:31
clarkbsdague: jog0: do you have opinions on that attitude?19:31
fallenpegasusI will see you there fungi19:31
mordredand by many, I mean 2x19:31
fungifallenpegasus: looking forward to it!19:31
sdagueclarkb: we can always rebuild logstash, right?19:31
mordredso consider me useless as usual19:31
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pleia2but locally I'm speaking at balug tonight on 'code review for sysadmins' (same as oscon talk)19:31
sdagueso I consider temp data loss to be an "oh well"19:32
clarkbsdague: yup and great19:32
clarkbsdague: well its temp in that indexes may go away19:32
jeblairclarkb: the havana release is sched for oct 1719:32
clarkband I don't feel like reindexing the data19:32
jeblairclarkb: my feeling is maybe wait till next week, then go for it?19:32
sdagueclarkb: well for elastic-recheck, we'd want to reindex that last 7 days of data regardless19:32
clarkbjeblair: yup, that was what I was thinking. After release is the best time for this sort of thing19:32
sdagueso we can figure out bug trends19:33
clarkbsdague: yeah, I am asserting that I would like to not do that :)19:33
mordredpleia2: ++19:33
sdagueclarkb: can't we do it as a background job after?19:33
jeblairsdague: how critical is that after the release?19:33
sdagueclarkb: ok, I just assumed temp outage :)19:33
clarkbsdague: we can, but if I start worrying about stuff like that I am worried I won't get this done in a timely manner19:33
sdagueclarkb: ok, so lets take the hit now19:34
clarkbsdague: right I figured after release was the best time for that hit19:34
sdaguebut in future it would be nice to have a reindex process for the data19:34
mordredthis: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/config,n,z is a terrifying list19:34
clarkbsdague: also, future upgrades will hopefully be less painful. logstash is doing a schema change and elasticsearch is changing major versions of lucene. It is a bit of a perfect storm19:34
sdaguebecause - http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/ even in it's current form, it super useful in understanding trending19:34
sdagueso we'll have a blind spot19:34
sdagueclarkb: yeh, though honestly, if they broke like that this time, I expect they'll break in the future19:35
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sdagueso bulk reindex process is probably in order19:35
jeblairsdague: it would be nice, but we've always said this stuff is transient19:35
jeblairand given our current staffing levels vs workload, i think we're going to have to accept that some things like this will have rough edges19:36
jeblairas mordred just pointed out19:36
clarkbsdague: they might, How about this. If the old indexes don't derp due to the lucene upgrade (they shouldn't but it is a warning they give) I will work on reindexing after the upgrade19:36
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sdagueclarkb: that would be awesome19:36
clarkbif they do derp, we move on19:36
sdagueyeh, I'm fine on that for now19:37
mordredjeblair: ++19:37
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sdaguejeblair: I get it, just logstash has a lot of consumers now :) you'll hear it on irc if it comes back empty19:38
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jeblairsdague: yep, and their contributions to the maintenance of the system will be welcome.  :)19:38
sdaguefair enough19:39
clarkbyeah, I will make a best effort, but I think doing it perfectly will require far too much time19:39
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sdagueclarkb: yeh, don't stress on it19:39
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sdaguenow is as good a time as ever to take the hit19:39
clarkband in theory since all of the upstreams are working together now this sort of pain will be less painful in the future (I really hope so)19:39
sdagueany idea how borky it's going to make e-r? like if there are enough data structure changes that we're going to need to do some emergency fixes there?19:40
clarkbsdague: it won't be too bad, I will propose an updated query list19:40
sdagueok, cool19:40
sdaguethe metadata adds going to go in as part of this?19:41
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clarkbsdague: the schema is being flattened and silly symbols are being removed. so @message becomes message and @fields.build_foo is just build_foo19:41
clarkbsdague: yeah, I was planning on looking at that as part of this giant set of changes :)19:41
clarkbI am also planning on trying the elasticsearch http output so that we can decouple elasticsearch upgrades from logstash19:41
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clarkbbut we need to upgrade elasticsearch anyways19:42
sdaguecool, well just keep me in the loop as things upgrade, I'll see what I can do to hotfix anything on the e-r to match19:42
clarkbsdague: thanks19:43
clarkband will do19:43
jeblairthere's a thread on the infra list about log serving19:46
jeblairSubject: "Log storage/serving"19:46
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jeblairit seems like the most widely accepted ideas are to store and statically serve directly from swift, and pre-process before uploading19:47
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jeblairif anyone else wants to weigh in, that would be great19:48
jeblairsdague: ^ mentioned this the other day, just a reminder19:48
jeblairjog0: ^ may be of interest to you as well19:48
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sdagueoh, yeh, actually19:49
clarkbcan I get reviews for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/47928/ that is step one in this whole process of upgrading stuff?19:49
sdagueso my experience so far on the filters, is the dynamic nature is kind of important19:49
sdagueso pre-process is something I'd actually tend to avoid if we could (though we could maybe build filters out of swift?)19:49
jeblairsdague: well, we won't be running our own swift, so i don't believe we can write a middleware to do it19:50
jog0jeblair: nice, what about the issues about how swift doesn't fit this use case exactly19:50
jeblairsdague: i agree, i like being able to process them as we serve them -- but considering that we tend to focus on the most recent logs...19:51
sdaguejeblair: so that being the case, I'd kind of lean on the dynamic filters against an FS model.19:51
jeblairsdague: if we keep upgrading the pre-processing, the logs we're looking at most will very shortly have those updates19:51
sdaguejeblair: right, but if we change a filter output, to do something like link req ids in, then we have to go back and bulk process eerything19:51
jeblairsdague: or just accept that older logs aren't as featureful19:52
sdaguejeblair: that also means processing them multiple ways, as we do things like dynamic level selectors19:52
sdaguewe doing a summit session on this?19:52
sdaguemight be good to do it there19:53
mordredwhy is it that we didn't want to do a log-serving app like jeblair was suggesting originally?19:53
clarkbmordred: because then we have to run the thing. If we use swift and mostly just swift someone else deals with it :)19:53
mordredit seems like storing the logs in swift, with an entry in a db that tells you pointers to teh data blobs19:53
sdaguemordred: I think I'm arguing exactly for the log serving app approach19:53
mordredso that if you want to get complex view, you go through the log view app19:53
jeblairsdague: i guess i'm saying that it's worth weighing the benefit of being able to add new processing to old logs against the simplicity of being able to use swift more or less straight up.19:53
sdagueyeh, we could still put raw in swift19:53
mordredbut if you just want raw data, you pull the data directly from swift19:53
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jeblairsdague: you could get dynamic features by doing the filtering in javascript (and by encoding tags in the file, still make filtering easily available to logstash pusher)19:54
sdaguejeblair: with the size of these files... you really can't19:54
jeblairsdague: ?19:55
sdaguen-cpu logs, htmlized, cripple anything but chrome19:55
sdague35MB html uncompressed19:55
jeblairsdague: aren't they already htmlized?19:55
sdagueno, that's the point of the filter19:55
jeblairsdague: we sometimes don't convert them to html?19:56
sdaguejeblair: right, for logstash19:56
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sdagueor if you wget19:56
jeblairsdague: but that doesn't cripple a non-chrome browser19:56
sdaguewe're doing content negotiation, so you can get html or text/plain19:56
jeblairi don't think i'm following19:56
sdaguethe overhead of a 35 MB html dom kills most browsers19:56
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jeblairsdague: so you're saying it only works because it doesn't default to DEBUG?19:57
sdaguejavascript manipulating it would be even worse19:57
jeblairsdague: and if you click debug, it'll kill your browser19:57
sdaguewe actually default to debug, and most people use chrome when it kills firefox19:57
jeblairsdague: ok, so as far as the html goes, there would be no difference19:58
sdaguebut a future enhancement I was going to add was detecting browser, and defaulting to a lower level19:58
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sdagueanyway, face to face, maybe we can sort the various concerns19:58
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jeblairsdague: well, if you have a minute, could you add these thoughts to the thread?19:58
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jeblairsdague: because so far, the idea of running a log serving app, which i originally suggested, has very few supporters19:59
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jeblairsdague: and yeah, i'll propose a summit session on this19:59
jeblairand i think we're at time20:00
jeblairthanks everyone20:00
fungii suspect that's mainly because the main use cases for swift are directly serving files rather than using it purely as a storage backend20:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 15 20:00:30 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-10-15-19.02.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-10-15-19.02.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-10-15-19.02.log.html20:00
jeblairfungi: i believe swift is most suited as a hidden storage backend20:00
mordredjeblair: ++20:01
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ttxPSA: No TC meeting this week as the TC is in election hiatus. You have two more days to vote.20:10
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russellbttx: i wrote you in for a 2nd seat20:12
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ttxmarkmc, dolphm, notmyname, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, shardy, gabrielhurley, markmcclain: around ?21:00
markwashhi hi21:00
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ttx#startmeeting project21:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 15 21:00:58 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'project'21:01
ttxOur usual agenda for te last Havana meeting21:01
ttx#startmeeting project21:01
openstackttx: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.  Use #endmeeting first.21:01
ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting21:01
ttx#topic General stuff21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "General stuff (Meeting topic: project)"21:01
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ttx#info Less than 2 days before release, we have RCs everywhere21:01
ttx#info At this point only regressions / critical upgrade issues should trigger respins21:01
ttxand we'd seriously limit the number of fixes to reduce chances of regression21:02
ttxPlease note that if we do any respin, that would be tomorrow.21:02
ttxOn Thursday (afternoon for Europe, morning for US) we shall publish the standing RCs and cut the stable/havana branches21:02
ttxAny question on that ?21:02
ttxsdague, annegentle, jeblair: anything from QA/Docs/Infra programs ?21:03
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sdaguettx: nothing major here21:03
annegentleWe're making progress on the install guide on all fronts. https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/HavanaDocTesting is the test matrix, patching like mad.21:03
jeblairttx: nak, thanks21:04
annegentleA bit of a debate on the team on whether to release Thursday if the install is not complete21:04
annegentlerelease docs that is21:04
ttxannegentle: no kidding21:04
annegentlewe'll keep triaging every 12 hours21:04
annegentlewe REALLY really want to make the date21:04
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ttxannegentle: anything else ? Something we could do to help ?21:05
ttxat this point most of us are just on-call waiting for some nasty regression to show up21:06
annegentlepeople have been responding to my call for help on the mailing list and a neutron setup came out of that as well, so I'm pleased with the response21:06
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ttxannegentle: if you need one more day I guess that would still count as "Thursday", like in Hawaii21:06
annegentleTest the install guide for your distro at http://docs.openstack.org/trunk, click the doc bug link (it's a cute red bug on each page) to report issues21:06
annegentlettx: nice. Might do that aloha!21:06
annegentle#help Test the install guide for your distro at http://docs.openstack.org/trunk, click the doc bug link (it's a cute red bug on each page) to report issues.21:07
ttxmarkmc/dhellmann: around ?21:07
annegentleIn other news, O'Reilly is starting a custom edit of the Operations Guide, thanks to the Foundation for funding.21:07
annegentlethat's all I've got (and it's enough!)21:08
ttxok, let's skip oslo, I don't think there was anything from them anyway21:08
ttx#topic Keystone status21:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Keystone status (Meeting topic: project)"21:08
ttxdolphm: hey21:08
ttx#info Keystone RC2 is out21:08
ttxLooking at the havana-rc-potential list:21:08
ttx#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bugs?field.tag=havana-rc-potential21:08
ttx3 bugs -- nothing really critical afaict, could be fixed in stable/havana alright ?21:08
ttxmight make sense to document them as known issues though21:09
ttxat least the LDAP one21:09
dolphmi was about to say that for the first two issues21:09
shardyThe trusts one will mean trusts support in Heat is broken21:09
ttxas many as you want :)21:09
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ttxdolphm: might be nice to do a RC3 over that one, so that trusts work out of the box ?21:10
dolphmshardy: hmm, i didn't expect that kind of impact21:10
shardybut then it's broken anyway until the patch for 1231483 gets merged into keystoneclient21:10
dolphmthis issues applies to grizzly as well21:11
ttxshardy: but keystoneclient can be fixed out of band21:11
shardyttx: yep, I'm hoping it will be, soon ;)21:11
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ttxdolphm: that sounds small enough for a RC3 for me, if you can get it to master today21:12
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dolphmworking on it!21:12
ttxdolphm: ok, let's discuss that post-meeting based on status21:12
ttxdolphm: I'll remove the other two bugs from list21:13
dolphmsounds good21:13
ttxand let you document them in release notes21:13
ttxshardy: thx for the cross-project vision21:13
ttxdolphm: nothing else ?21:13
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dolphmnot from me21:13
ttx#topic Ceilometer status21:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Ceilometer status (Meeting topic: project)"21:14
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ttxjd__: bonsoir21:14
ttx#info Ceilometer RC2 is out21:14
jd__bonsoir !21:14
ttxLet's see your havana-rc-potential list:21:14
ttx#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bugs?field.tag=havana-rc-potential21:14
ttxThe one bug you have there is not worth a respin, could be included in rc3 if we did one21:15
ttxjd__: Any other blocker I should know about ?21:15
jd__so far so good21:15
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ttxOther news / questions about Ceilometer ?21:15
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ttx#topic Swift status21:16
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ttxnotmyname: o/21:16
ttx#link Swift RC1 is out21:16
ttx#info Swift RC1 is out21:16
ttxNothing on your havana-rc-potential list21:17
ttxDoes that mean there is no known need for a last-minute respin at this point ?21:17
notmynameso far, everything looks good21:17
ttxI like that.21:17
ttxnotmyname: anything you wanted to mention ?21:17
notmynamemany of us are in Austin right now at a 3 day hackathon. churning through reviews and features.21:17
notmynamenothing to mention for the havana release21:18
notmynamerelease notes are up21:18
ttxnotmyname: I saw that. thx21:18
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ttx#topic Glance status21:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Glance status (Meeting topic: project)"21:18
ttxmarkwash: o/21:19
ttx#info Glance RC2 is out21:19
ttxNothing on your havana-rc-potential list21:19
ttxAll good so far ?21:19
markwashSo far21:19
ttxOther news / questions about Glance ?21:19
markwashNot from me21:19
ttxmarkwash: great, thx21:20
ttx#topic Neutron status21:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Neutron status (Meeting topic: project)"21:20
ttxmarkmcclain: hola21:20
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ttx#info Neutron RC2 is out21:20
ttxLooking at the havana-rc-potential list:21:20
ttx#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=havana-rc-potential21:20
ttxSo... bug 123643921:21
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1236439 in neutron "switch to use hostnames like nova breaks upgrades of l3-agent" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123643921:21
ttxDo you want to document it as a known upgrade issue at this point ?21:21
markmcclainchanging the value one way or another breaks somethign21:21
markmcclainright now that is our current thinking21:21
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ttxIs there any way to let the user choose the lesser evil ? Like having people upgrading keep grizzly behavior21:22
ttxor does it have to be manual ?21:22
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markmcclainwe're thinking on publishing a script to reschedule the agents21:23
markmcclainrescheduling fixes the issue21:23
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ttxmarkmcclain: publishing.. in the release notes, right ?21:23
markmcclainmost likely21:23
ttxmarkmcclain: ok21:24
ttxat least distros could pick up the script in their upgrade scripts21:24
ttxmarkmcclain: please push it to the bug as soon as you have it21:25
markmcclainwill do21:25
ttxthen copy it to release notes21:25
ttxand while you're at it fill in other chapters of https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Havana for Neutron21:25
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ttxor delegate to someone who will, before end of day, tomorrow :)21:25
markmcclainwill do21:25
ttxmarkmcclain: any other kitten killer / showstopper ?21:26
ttxapart from the ones I know about ?21:26
ttxok, so no RC3 at this point21:26
ttxOther news / questions about Neutron ?21:26
markmcclainI'm hoping no RC3.. nothing else from me21:27
ttxmarkmcclain: thx!21:27
ttx#topic Cinder status21:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Cinder status (Meeting topic: project)"21:27
ttxjgriffith: hi!21:27
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ttxhmm, no jgriffith yet?21:28
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x33c12d0>21:28
ttx#topic Nova status21:28
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova status (Meeting topic: project)"21:28
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ttxrussellb: around?21:28
ttx#info Nova RC2 is out21:29
ttxLooking at your havana-rc-potential list:21:29
ttx#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=havana-rc-potential21:30
russellbadded another to the list today21:30
ttxThere was some concern around bug 1239484 but analysis revealed a user corner case afaict21:30
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1239484 in nova "failed nova db migration upgrading from grizzly to havana" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123948421:30
russellbbut unless someone tells me otherwise, we can defer it to stable/havana21:30
ttxbug 1230925 is just somethign we would pack in a RC3 if any21:30
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1230925 in nova "Require new python-cinderclient for Havana" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123092521:30
ttxleaves us with bug 122166421:30
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1221664 in nova "xenapi: configdrive does not include network details" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/122166421:30
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russellbnot clear from the bug or commit message if it's regression21:31
russellbsounds like it's not21:31
ttxrussellb: yes, that would probably be a stable/havana backport21:31
russellbi can try to talk to john tomorrow morning, but he marked it as medium21:31
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ttxunless it's a true regression21:31
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ttxright, so no RC3 at this point21:32
ttxrussellb: anything else on your mind ?21:32
russellbplenty, but nothing we need to discuss now21:32
ttxrussellb: how is summit scheduling going for nova so far ?21:33
comstudjust found a nova cells delete bug.. not sure if that'll be worthy of an rc321:33
dansmithcomstud: nobody uses cells, so, no21:33
russellbttx: well ... set a deadline for proposals on thursday21:33
ttxcomstud: is that a regression compared to grizzly cells ?21:33
russellbi've recruited a few people to help with scheduling, so we'll start soon21:33
russellbcomstud: have a bug filed?21:34
comstudnot yet.. *just* found it21:34
comstudlike during this meeting21:34
russellbcomstud: if only we had that cells job running :-p21:34
ttxcomstud: sounds like a documentable issue and a nice stable/havana fix :P21:34
comstudthis is hard to test21:34
ttxwhoi deletes cells anyway21:34
comstudi think we're deleting from api cell but not child cell21:34
comstudso according to API, everything appears oka21:34
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russellbshall we discuss more in #openstack-nova ?21:35
ttxcomstud: I'll let you narrow it down and talk to you after meeting21:35
ttxin #openstack-nova21:35
ttxOther news / questions about Nova ?21:35
ttxcomstud: also, file a bug when you can21:36
ttx#topic Heat status21:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Heat status (Meeting topic: project)"21:36
ttxshardy: o/21:36
ttx#info Heat RC2 is out21:36
ttxNothing on your rc-potential list21:36
shardyNothing RC3-worthy so far21:36
shardyso all looking good atm :)21:37
ttxabout that keystone bug, how did that fly under the radar so far ?21:37
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ttx(if it breaks Heat trusts)21:37
shardyttx: Heat trusts landed late, and I've been working around several keystone and keystoneclient issues21:37
shardyttx: It wasn't an immediately obvious issue, and the keystone tests didn't catch it21:38
ttxshardy: are you positive heat trusts will work with python-keystoneclient fix and that fix in ?21:38
ttxor are we just waitig for the next hurdle21:38
ttx(trying to gauge the need for a RC3 fix vs. a stable/havana one)21:38
shardyttx: My testing indicates it will, but unfortunately trusts are an immature feature, so we're finding all the issues21:39
ttxshardy: at least it will work in some capacity, right21:39
shardyttx: without both keystone and keystoneclient fixes it won't work21:39
ttxthat == 'True' looks so wrong to me I kinda want it to go away21:39
shardybut users can still use the default user/pass instead of trusts, so impact is not that huge if we release with it broken21:40
shardyjust disappointing that's all21:40
shardyit's been a long slog getting to this point21:40
ttxshardy: will triplecheck the regression risk is null with dolphm but we can RC3 it21:41
ttxif it gets into master soon enough21:41
dolphmgating into master now21:41
ttxshardy: Other news / questions about Heat ?21:41
shardyttx: Ok, sure, thanks21:41
shardyttx, not atm, thanks!21:41
ttx#topic Horizon status21:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Horizon status (Meeting topic: project)"21:41
ttxgabrielhurley: o/21:42
ttx#info Horizon RC2 is out21:42
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ttxNothing on your rc-potential list21:42
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ttxgabrielhurley: anything I should know about ?21:42
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gabrielhurleyNothing I'm aware of. RC2 knocked out the last of everything and nothing's come up.21:43
ttxgabrielhurley: you still need to copy a few highlights of your changelog to the release notes at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Havana21:43
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gabrielhurleyyeah, I'll do that.21:43
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gabrielhurleyIt's such a pain converting reST/HTML into wiki syntax21:43
ttxgabrielhurley: yes, i'm a bit disappointed by the change-password workaround but it's probably the best call given how late we discovered that gap21:43
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gabrielhurleyyep. nothing that can really be done for now. Maybe as a stable backport in the future21:44
ttxsounds a bit overreaching for a stable backport, but that's a discussion for another day21:44
ttxOther news / questions about Horizon ?21:44
ttx#topic Incubated projects21:45
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ttxhub_cap: no need for a Trove RC3 ?21:45
ttxI'll handle Trove 2013.2 release when I'm done with the rest of the projects, probably Thursday still21:46
ttxjgriffith: around now ?21:46
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ttx#topic Cinder status21:47
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hub_capnope ttx (Sry)21:47
ttxwill give a quick status with the info in my possession21:47
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ttx#info Cinder RC2 is out21:48
ttx#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bugs?field.tag=havana-rc-potential21:48
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ttxWe have bug 1233861 very likely to trigger a RC321:48
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1233861 in cinder "Mysql foreign key failure during db migration from 9 to 10" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123386121:48
ttxsince it affects upgrades21:48
ttxthat said, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/51917/ is not in master yet21:48
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ttx#topic Open discussion21:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: project)"21:49
ttxAnything else, anyone ?21:49
ttxwell then21:50
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:50
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 15 21:50:21 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:50
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-10-15-21.00.html21:50
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-10-15-21.00.txt21:50
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-10-15-21.00.log.html21:50
ttxthanks everyone, let's do this21:50
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gabrielhurleyhello horizon folks. as it turns out, I'm being called into meetings both this week and next during this timeslot, so I'll let someone else lead the meeting.22:00
gabrielhurleydavid-lyle are you available to do so?22:00
david-lyle_gabrielhurley: sure22:00
david-lyle_#startmeeting Horizon22:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 15 22:01:24 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is david-lyle_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.22:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.22:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)"22:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'horizon'22:01
david-lyle_Hello everyone22:01
jcoufal_o/ hey folks22:01
gabrielhurleyI'll just really quickly lay out the official business: Horizon RC2 was cut as of last night/this morning, and that looks to be the final candidate. Unless an exceptionally critical bug comes up before Thursday that's when the stable/havana branches will be cut and Havana is officially done!22:02
gabrielhurleyHavana is an excellent release and everyone should feel proud of it.22:02
gabrielhurleythat's basically all I had, and I have to shift my focus now. I'll try and keep an eye out on IRC here, but david-lyle take it away! :-)22:03
david-lyle_ok, I just wanted to thank everyone for the last minute work on RC2 to get the final issues out the door22:03
jpichNote that there is https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1239896 which was reported against the milestone-proposed branch22:04
david-lyle_#topic bugs22:04
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1239896 in horizon "Launching Instance Boot from image (creates a new volume)" [High,Triaged]22:04
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: Horizon)"22:04
jpichThat works under that topic too :)22:05
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jpichI marked it as backport-proposal rather than as rc-potential for a RC3 since IMO it's not the critical path, nor a regression since (AFAICT?) it was a new feature added during Havana... We're very close to the release date at this point22:06
david-lyle_I agree that particular case shouldn't be enough for an RC22:06
david-lyle_legacy main path still works22:06
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jpichCool. Hopefully we get it fixed soon and can backport it for the first stable point release22:07
david-lyle_That would be great22:07
david-lyle_Any other bugs concerning the RC that anyone wants to call attention to?22:08
lcheng@jpich I tried reproducing the bug, aside from the rendering of the table error the instance creation was also failing. This might take some time to fix.22:09
david-lyle_Ok, since I don't have an agenda... :)22:09
david-lyle_#topic Open Discussion22:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Horizon)"22:10
jpichlcheng: Ah, ok. Thank you! I reproduced but didn't look into how to fix, I was hoping it may simply be the table display demanding an image_id22:10
ktbentonHi, can anyone provide any guidance to move forward with blueprint horizon-routerrules22:10
david-lyle_ktbenton: last I looked it was being actively reviewed22:10
david-lyle_can you give a link?22:11
ktbentonhere is the gerrit review22:11
lchengjpich: I was hoping that too when I saw the bug. :) I'll try to spend a bit more time on it.22:11
ktbentonI think we just need more core reviewers22:12
david-lyle_very actively reviewed :)  I'll take a look this evening22:12
ktbentondavid-lyle_: thanks, that will be very helpful22:13
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jpichlcheng: Great! Thank you. Keep us posted :)22:13
david-lyle_ktbenton: thanks for sticking with the changes22:13
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jpichI was hoping to ask about the summit and how many design sessions there are for Horizon - gabrielhurley, if you're around, do you know? Does anyone else?22:14
gabrielhurleyjpich: I believe we are allocated 8 sessions, and currently we have 8 proposals...22:14
david-lyle_I though he said 722:14
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jpichClose enough :) Thanks, gabrielhurley, david-lyle22:15
gabrielhurleyactually, I think we have 9 proposed now22:15
gabrielhurleybut 8 slots is what summit.openstack.org shows me for "available"22:15
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jpichIt doesn't look like anyone proposed any integration session for/with new projects this time around22:16
david-lyle_jpich: incubated projects?22:16
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jcoufalThere is one for UX22:17
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jcoufaland it is connected a bit to one update I have here22:17
jcoufalUX community has officially proposed new separate OpenStack program for the whole user experience22:18
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jcoufalyou can see more details here: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-October/016571.html22:18
jpichdavid-lyle_: Yeah, I found these sessions really really interesting last time. I guess we already have Trove in, and Savana also already has their dashboard project on stackforge22:18
jpichjcoufal: Great :D22:18
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david-lyle_jpich: designate also has some preliminary Horizon work as does Tuskar22:19
david-lyle_jcoufal: +122:19
jcoufaljust smaller mistakes - it's not incubation application, it's program proposal, was corrected in the thread 2 mails later :)22:19
jcoufaljpich: There is also expected to be one session for Tuskar UI and it might include part of Horizon integration22:20
jcoufalbut it should be under TripleO project22:20
jpichjcoufal: Oh, that'd be neat!22:20
david-lyle_any Tuskar folks wanting to demo?  talk integration?  could be part of the IA session22:20
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david-lyle_since it is a bit of an odd-ball as far as the current IA is concerned22:20
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jcoufaldavid-lyle_: I think we can cover the integration with Tuskar in Horizon IA slot and the TripleO slot for Tuskar UI22:21
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lsmola_jcoufal, +122:21
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david-lyle_jcoufal: I didn't realize there was a TripleO session regarding Tuskar UI, we'll crash that :)22:22
david-lyle_but I do think it ties into the IA talk well22:22
jcoufaldavid-lyle: not officially proposed yet, I am putting a concept together in these days :)22:22
lsmola_david-lyle there will be also tuskar-ui and tripleo demo :-)22:23
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david-lyle_I look forward to it22:24
* lsmola_ working even harder now22:24
jcoufalAnother short update from UX point of view, since we discussed it here last time22:24
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david-lyle_jcoufal: any update on an IA proposal? or do we start at the summit and build from there?22:25
jcoufalaskbot for ux related discussions is up on special temporary openshift account22:25
jcoufalit just needs few customizations and it can go out22:25
david-lyle_jcoufal: +1 on both22:25
jcoufaldavid-lyle_: regarding the IA22:26
jpichjcoufal: Looking forward to it :)22:26
jcoufalI definitely want to sent something out at least one week before the summit22:26
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jcoufalso everybody can put their heads around the issue and think about some other approaches or how to improve that22:27
jcoufalstill trying to put together first draft of options with couple of people who are interested in22:28
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david-lyle_thanks jcoufal, I think it will help to let people bring ideas rather than just reactions22:28
jcoufalif there is anybody who want to jump in into brainstorming, he is definitely welcome22:29
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jcoufalI will start some thread about that in UX group so you can follow the discussion there22:29
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david-lyle_kspear: are you here?22:31
kspeardavid-lyle_: o/22:31
david-lyle_any thoughts on policy checks... project scope and default rules that check project ownership?22:32
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david-lyle_not sure how to address that, other than a rather vacuous check22:33
kspearah i neglected your review22:33
david-lyle_well, just in general22:34
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david-lyle_I don't feel neglected, just hoping for some insight :)22:34
kspearmy main concern is getting away from the "admin or nothing" state of permissions22:34
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david-lyle_well, role checks will still work too22:34
kspearwe have some more complicated rules in our deployment22:35
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kspeari thought the idea was to replace the role checks?22:35
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david-lyle_well role grants are how you define user capabilities22:36
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david-lyle_not just admin and member, but operator defined roles22:36
david-lyle_domain_admininstrator for instance22:37
david-lyle_wow, spelled the heck out of that22:37
kspearwe likewise have a ProjectManager role22:38
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david-lyle_the operator updates their policy file to check for that role, then the policy engine validates that role is in the user's token22:38
kspeari guess the current issue is where we talk about target policies22:39
david-lyle_yes, because the services have a different frame of reference than Horizon does22:40
kspearso one of our policies is that a ProjectManager can add a certain role (target) to a user22:40
david-lyle_so the target would be {role:<role_name>}22:41
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david-lyle_ah, I see22:41
kspearsomething like that. keystone has just added support for this22:41
kspearwe're still running based on custom patches to keystone v2 api22:42
kspearbut the idea would be to support this through policy definitions only22:42
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david-lyle_I agree, that's the goal, but you installation would have to alter the policy.json files22:42
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kspearthat's fine. for v2 we needed to create specific code checkpoints that hardcoded a policy name. v3 allows more flexibility than that22:44
david-lyle_let me think about it and I'll see if what we have works for that, because I think your example of a target may be different22:44
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kspearmy example might be a little contrived, since there are other limitations in the system that interfere with what i want to do with this22:45
kspearanother example i had was a deployment where users shared tenants22:45
kspearbut each user could only modify objects that they own explicitly22:45
kspeare.g., instances they created22:46
kspearthis would be a target user_id check22:46
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david-lyle_where do we get the user_id from?22:46
kspearthe instance object22:46
david-lyle_one side of the check needs to be hardcoded22:47
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david-lyle_ok, I'll hit ping you offline22:48
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kspeardavid-lyle_: sure22:49
jcoufaldavid-lyle_: :)22:49
david-lyle_anyone else still around and have anything to raise?22:49
* david-lyle_ takes wide detour22:50
* kspear grins22:50
david-lyle_Alright, Havana's seemingly in the bag, time to focus on Icehouse.22:52
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:52
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 15 22:52:42 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:52
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-10-15-22.01.html22:52
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-10-15-22.01.txt22:52
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-10-15-22.01.log.html22:52
lsmola_thank you, have a good night22:52
jpichLet's. Thanks david-lyle_!22:52
jcoufalthanks david-lyle_ was smooth22:52
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david-lyle_Have a good week everyone!22:52
kspearnight/morning all22:53
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jcoufalhave a great one, see you all later22:53
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